Preliminary results show Thaci party victory

Hashim Thaci called himself a winner - I think he is the biggest loser. His party won in two towns - Skenderaj and Drenas 94% of votes!!! Impossible, that's called fraude and corruption.
Democratic Party my ... North Korea does this all the time, now it's Thaci's turn in the middle of Europe. He should be a shame.

It's a farce already, even as the votes are counted.

Democracy my backside

I also dont trust the alleged results for our enclaves because these areas are more prone to desperately needed voter fraud to obtain fraudulent legitimacy from minorities, so it's safe to say that Serbs overwhelmingly lived up to CCCC

Please, lets not turn this into a North Korea vs. "Kosova" debate. What happened to the announcement by the monitors? This normally comes fairly quickly. Are they harmonising their statement with the US?

I'm glad the overwhelming majority of Serbians did not vote and those few that did accuse each other of fraud.

Well who cooperates with whom?

This is going to be very difficult to sort out. I'm sure that Kurti didn't really hope to be in government, rather he wants to be in opposition so that he will grow yet again and then be the most dominant party in Kosovo.

And if Mustafa isn't playing ball it leaves us with the former military commanders to form another alliance, one from his jail cell at the Hague and the other to run things from Pristina with support from Pacoli who must be gutted to only get around 6%.

This is interesting:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/12/former-diplomat-backs-albanian-nationalist

I think iy was great success.
In some areas the turnout was even 149%!
Check it out:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/13/kosovo-election-fraud-claims

I'm glad the overwhelming majority of Serbians did not vote and those few that did accuse each other of fraud.
(Zoran, 13 December 2010 12:08)

Let me tell you a short story.

In the early morning hours of March 5, 1998 the house of Adem Jashari in Prekaz was attacked (again) by the large forces of Serbian national army and police.

The attacking force consisted of armored personnel carriers and policemen, backed up by heavy artillery. The gun battle lasted for two days.

In one of the houses, the police fired mortars, followed by tear gas. The shelling continued for another thirty-six hours before the police finally entered the compound.

Amnesty International in a report made for the case, stated that the attack was intended to eliminate all witnesses.

A total of fifty-eight people were murdered along with Jashari, among them were eighteen women and ten children under sixteen years old.

Now, under the light of this experience let me ask you, do you really think that K-Alb really give a damn if Serbs voted or not in these elections?

Thanks for the link, bganon.

Some excerpts from it:
"In a speech at a mass rally for the Self-determination party in Pristina on the eve of polls, Walker accused Kosovo's government of the same abuse of power experienced under Serbian repression in the 1990s, adding that the international community was "complicit" in today's corruption. "In a word," he said, "many of the negative aspects of the Milosovic years are being repeated: leaders addicted to the same benefits of power, a willingness to do whatever is necessary to remain in office, continued access to illicit enrichment, a leadership without moral compass."

He's right about the current government under Thaci and his buddies. But is Kurti the right answer to these problems?

"I think it was great success.
In some areas the turnout was even 149%! "
(passing by, 13 December 2010 16:43)

Really impressive. Better than North Korea! And of this 149%, probably 140% is for Thaci? ;-)

Now, under the light of this experience let me ask you, do you really think that K-Alb really give a damn if Serbs voted or not in these elections?
(Denis, 13 December 2010 21:37)

Denis - you copy-pasted from a DISPUTED Wiki article.

This is the dispute and the whole story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Adem_Jashari

In particular:

"The fact that Serbs and at one point the U.S., Britain and France considered him a terrorist is mentioned explicitly in the article under my proposed lead"

No need for UÇK lies and propaganda, we are familiar with it.

Wonder why B 92 didn't mention anything about the cheatings reported from Drenica? Hacim ,the snake, Thaci and hig gang bangers rigged the results of the votes. Not even under the watchful eye of the EU can the albs behave.

do you really think that K-Alb really give a damn if Serbs voted or not in these elections?
(Denis, 13 December 2010 21:37)
--
Of course they do Denis, regardless of your irrelevant story. Tell me something, why do so many K-Albanians read and post here on B92? There are probably more than Serbian commentators. If you don't care for Serbians then please explain.

North Korea does this all the time, now it's Thaci's turn in the middle of Europe. He should be a shame.
(Tim, 13 December 2010, 10:21)

Hey, don't diss North Koprea. You gotta hand it to Kim il Sung for succeding where Mao, Stalin and others failed in creating a disciplined populace and a religious ideology that rejects Western decadence and can survive any hardship. If only the DPRK had fertile land. Their gay rights situation still needs some work, but otherwise it's a great country om the rise.

bganon, i totally agree with you, that the old faces are stuck in motion, and it is not necessarily the best choice for a productive future.

But given the current conditions, were only one out of 4 of Kosovo's neighbors is threatening their existence, I fear that the military people will be called upon again till the threat has been dealt with.

The point that has been emitted by the elections is still the further development of Kosovo, by Kosovo.

Homosexuality is NOT illegal in N. Korea, check the wiki article on LGBT rights in the DPRK.

The Serb nationalists (extreme or "moderate") always have an albanian to demonize. for some it is Thaci,for others it is Kurti. I have my differences with both, but they represent different interests/ different approaches in the country, and both will have to be worked with. even by the blgd
regime.

As for the democratic credentials of the current blgd regime, they can be summarized in 3 points: Support communist/fascist repression of dissidents (ie communist chinese regime); destabilize neighbors on every possible occasion (ie bosnia and Kosova), and harbor mass-murdering war criminals (mladic being the tip of that nasty iceberg.) so that is their "democratic" value system.(non-existent.)

My personal take: as long as the neighbor to the north continues its policy of aggression and belligerence, left unchecked by the intl comm (so called eulex), then the majority of people in kosovo will vote for security. that means former military heroes,and it means "progressive nationalists." None of these are my first choice-- but I am not Kosovar, and i do not get to vote.

personally I've supported people like veton Surroi and flora brovina, both strong intellectuals and charismatic leaders. these kind of people, for me, represent the best and the brightest... but i also am wanting to give younger folks a chance -- there is such tremendous potential in the yng people of kosova -- i've met many such dynamic and bright yng men and women, and they need to be given a chance.

as for corruption, i don't need to read the usual serbian nationalist agitprop to understand that corruption cripples countries like kosova (and really, throughout the former yu, incl serbia.) personally i do not believe that mr thaci will decisively change this -- in fact it would appear that he continues to benefit from it. this will not change until the people of kosova demand that it changes. well meaning (or otherwise) outsiders cannot cure the problem.

also -- no one is mentioning the terror in mitrovica -- according to the article i sent yesterday, a serbian vigilante group (remember ww1 -- 20th century history??) assassinated the bosniak man who was working to help get out the vote in the north. that is the kind of environment that we allow -- that we facilitate. and then you expect the common people -- anyone! to go vote?! the answer, as usual, starts fr Blgd.

thank you.

ciao! roberto -- frisco

It would seem Hash's party is set for the lion's share of the votes, so I’m not expecting any changes in politics or governmental transparency anytime soon. Look on the bright side though: if these elections produce no change, and they most likely will not, Kosovo will hardly be any different from other places in the world where elections give a comforting sign of progress to external observers that will write glowing reports back to their respective countries for Wikileaks to eventually debunk. At the absolute least, Kosovo elections resemble those in New Jersey: more of the same people turning elected positions into entrenched life-long careers. Tocqueville would be proud.

Not even under the watchful eye of the EU can the albs behave.
(Aloys, 13 December 2010)

Huh? Excuse me but how does the alleged vote rigging by one party equals to Albanians misbehaving?

roberto says:

"The Serb nationalists (extreme or "moderate") always have an albanian to demonize."

and you always have an entire country and people to demonize as the scapegoat for everyone else's misfortune.

"also -- no one is mentioning the terror in mitrovica -- according to the article i sent yesterday, a serbian vigilante group (remember ww1 -- 20th century history??) assassinated the bosniak man who was working to help get out the vote in the north."

that agent of democracy was apparently a criminal himself. can't say i know the entire story, but let's not make the man into a martyr because it fits with your biases and prejudices.

so let me get this straight:

The "blgd regime" is basically full of fascists/communists who shelter mass murderers and stifle free speech. While the kleptocrats of the prstn league of super friends, many of whom were active members of a terrorist organization until the US conveniently took them off the list, are "progressive nationalists" that can be understood to draw voter support because of the big bad chetnik to the north?

bravo roberto. It must have been painful for you to be that scrutinous towards kosovo's current leadership for a few seconds.

thank you.

ciao! norberto -- fiasco

The Serb nationalists (extreme or "moderate") always have an albanian to demonize.
(roberto, 13 December 2010 21:48)

"Thank" you Roberto for an other insanity.

Lucky me, it looks increasingly that my grandma was an ethnic pravoslav Belarus and my dad from Hungary more Irish(!) than Jew.

So now - reading your comments - I feel "lucky" to apologize to Serbs and Russians for Jews only with half of the intensity I used to.

Still, it's not a nice feeling... would be you a 100% gentile, I would be much more happy.

Really impressive. Better than North Korea! And of this 149%, probably 140% is for Thaci? ;-)
(Top, 13 December 2010)

I suspect 110% of the 149% votes went for Thaci.

"Not even under the watchful eye of the EU can the albs behave.
(Aloys, 13 December 2010)

Huh? Excuse me but how does the alleged vote rigging by one party equals to Albanians misbehaving?
(Zoti, 13 December 2010 22:03)"

It's in the system. It is the ability to hold elections that is in question.

Maybe you can explain to me something that I don't understand. Elsewhere there was significant loss of privacy and "family" voting. Is that ok? I'm honestly interested in your view.

''Of course they do Denis, regardless of your irrelevant story. Tell me something, why do so many K-Albanians read and post here on B92? There are probably more than Serbian commentators. If you don't care for Serbians then please explain.
(Zoran, 13 December 2010 23:36) ''

Why does B92 publish news in English at first place? If you don't want Albanians to get involved then post in serbo-croatian .

Why does B92 publish news in English at first place? If you don't want Albanians to get involved then post in serbo-croatian .
(iliri, 14 December 2010 01:25)
--
What does that have to do with my comment? Besides, go and check the Serbian language site and there are many KiM-Albanians posting there.

If as Denis suggests, KiM-Albanians don't care for Serbians then why do so many post here on this English site and also the Serbian site? The answer is of course you do care.

Thaci wins elections again? Is this really news? I hope he has noted (with the arrest of Sanaader) that promises of protection and immunity by 'special' countries are somewhat limited.

It's in the system. It is the ability to hold elections that is in question.

Maybe you can explain to me something that I don't understand. Elsewhere there was significant loss of privacy and "family" voting. Is that ok? I'm honestly interested in your view.
(Mister, 13 December 2010 23:34)

Serbs don't get to have a say in this. Not when you pass a constitution claiming as your subjects a whole ethnic group while denying them the right to vote for such constitution. Serbs do not get to speak in the name of free elections and democracy. You have and respect neither.

Of course they do Denis, regardless of your irrelevant story. Tell me something, why do so many K-Albanians read and post here on B92? There are probably more than Serbian commentators. If you don't care for Serbians then please explain.
(Zoran, 13 December 2010 23:36)

The answer is simple. There is no other site either Serbian or Albanian on the internet that offers a debate between the two sides. If there was another site especially real time, the debate will shift there.

What is irrelevant about the story I brought here? Do you think Serbs commited no crimes in Kosovo whatsoever.

Whatever the disputes are, the facts stand that 50+ members of Jashari family were exterminated and among them women and children. The Serbian Gov has never denied this. Now in what country the police and army would be that careless and irresponsible to shell a house with 20+ women and children inside. They could have used tear gas continously, or use other disabilitating means, to save the civilians but apparently and as AI reported they didn't care who they killed.

Jashari a terrorist? Why because he attacked Serbian security forces? Ha really? Can you compare his deed with the terror Serbs brought upon Vukovar, Dubrovnik, Sarajevo, Srbrenica where civilians were killed en masse?

So when Albanians attack men in uniform they are terrorists, when Serbs kill at will mainly civilians they are freedom loving people.... oh what a joke.

All of the above, brings us to one conclusion. Thaci and the KLA was primarily a creation of Serbia. It was not K-Alb first choice, Rugova was, but you didn't want Rugova as an adversary, he was too civilized for you, you wanted Thaci and the KLA, and that's what you got.

North Korea does this all the time, now it's Thaci's turn in the middle of Europe. He should be a shame.
(Tim, 13 December 2010, 10:21)

Hey, don't diss North Koprea. You gotta hand it to Kim il Sung for succeding where Mao, Stalin and others failed in creating a disciplined populace and a religious ideology that rejects Western decadence and can survive any hardship. If only the DPRK had fertile land. Their gay rights situation still needs some work, but otherwise it's a great country om the rise.

The Serb nationalists (extreme or "moderate") always have an albanian to demonize. for some it is Thaci,for others it is Kurti. I have my differences with both, but they represent different interests/ different approaches in the country, and both will have to be worked with. even by the blgd
regime.

As for the democratic credentials of the current blgd regime, they can be summarized in 3 points: Support communist/fascist repression of dissidents (ie communist chinese regime); destabilize neighbors on every possible occasion (ie bosnia and Kosova), and harbor mass-murdering war criminals (mladic being the tip of that nasty iceberg.) so that is their "democratic" value system.(non-existent.)

My personal take: as long as the neighbor to the north continues its policy of aggression and belligerence, left unchecked by the intl comm (so called eulex), then the majority of people in kosovo will vote for security. that means former military heroes,and it means "progressive nationalists." None of these are my first choice-- but I am not Kosovar, and i do not get to vote.

personally I've supported people like veton Surroi and flora brovina, both strong intellectuals and charismatic leaders. these kind of people, for me, represent the best and the brightest... but i also am wanting to give younger folks a chance -- there is such tremendous potential in the yng people of kosova -- i've met many such dynamic and bright yng men and women, and they need to be given a chance.

as for corruption, i don't need to read the usual serbian nationalist agitprop to understand that corruption cripples countries like kosova (and really, throughout the former yu, incl serbia.) personally i do not believe that mr thaci will decisively change this -- in fact it would appear that he continues to benefit from it. this will not change until the people of kosova demand that it changes. well meaning (or otherwise) outsiders cannot cure the problem.

also -- no one is mentioning the terror in mitrovica -- according to the article i sent yesterday, a serbian vigilante group (remember ww1 -- 20th century history??) assassinated the bosniak man who was working to help get out the vote in the north. that is the kind of environment that we allow -- that we facilitate. and then you expect the common people -- anyone! to go vote?! the answer, as usual, starts fr Blgd.

thank you.

ciao! roberto -- frisco

I also dont trust the alleged results for our enclaves because these areas are more prone to desperately needed voter fraud to obtain fraudulent legitimacy from minorities, so it's safe to say that Serbs overwhelmingly lived up to CCCC

It's a farce already, even as the votes are counted.

Democracy my backside

Please, lets not turn this into a North Korea vs. "Kosova" debate. What happened to the announcement by the monitors? This normally comes fairly quickly. Are they harmonising their statement with the US?

I'm glad the overwhelming majority of Serbians did not vote and those few that did accuse each other of fraud.

Hashim Thaci called himself a winner - I think he is the biggest loser. His party won in two towns - Skenderaj and Drenas 94% of votes!!! Impossible, that's called fraude and corruption.
Democratic Party my ... North Korea does this all the time, now it's Thaci's turn in the middle of Europe. He should be a shame.

bganon, i totally agree with you, that the old faces are stuck in motion, and it is not necessarily the best choice for a productive future.

But given the current conditions, were only one out of 4 of Kosovo's neighbors is threatening their existence, I fear that the military people will be called upon again till the threat has been dealt with.

The point that has been emitted by the elections is still the further development of Kosovo, by Kosovo.

I'm glad the overwhelming majority of Serbians did not vote and those few that did accuse each other of fraud.
(Zoran, 13 December 2010 12:08)

Let me tell you a short story.

In the early morning hours of March 5, 1998 the house of Adem Jashari in Prekaz was attacked (again) by the large forces of Serbian national army and police.

The attacking force consisted of armored personnel carriers and policemen, backed up by heavy artillery. The gun battle lasted for two days.

In one of the houses, the police fired mortars, followed by tear gas. The shelling continued for another thirty-six hours before the police finally entered the compound.

Amnesty International in a report made for the case, stated that the attack was intended to eliminate all witnesses.

A total of fifty-eight people were murdered along with Jashari, among them were eighteen women and ten children under sixteen years old.

Now, under the light of this experience let me ask you, do you really think that K-Alb really give a damn if Serbs voted or not in these elections?

Homosexuality is NOT illegal in N. Korea, check the wiki article on LGBT rights in the DPRK.

Not even under the watchful eye of the EU can the albs behave.
(Aloys, 13 December 2010)

Huh? Excuse me but how does the alleged vote rigging by one party equals to Albanians misbehaving?

Now, under the light of this experience let me ask you, do you really think that K-Alb really give a damn if Serbs voted or not in these elections?
(Denis, 13 December 2010 21:37)

Denis - you copy-pasted from a DISPUTED Wiki article.

This is the dispute and the whole story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Adem_Jashari

In particular:

"The fact that Serbs and at one point the U.S., Britain and France considered him a terrorist is mentioned explicitly in the article under my proposed lead"

No need for UÇK lies and propaganda, we are familiar with it.

I think iy was great success.
In some areas the turnout was even 149%!
Check it out:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/13/kosovo-election-fraud-claims

Well who cooperates with whom?

This is going to be very difficult to sort out. I'm sure that Kurti didn't really hope to be in government, rather he wants to be in opposition so that he will grow yet again and then be the most dominant party in Kosovo.

And if Mustafa isn't playing ball it leaves us with the former military commanders to form another alliance, one from his jail cell at the Hague and the other to run things from Pristina with support from Pacoli who must be gutted to only get around 6%.

This is interesting:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/12/former-diplomat-backs-albanian-nationalist

It would seem Hash's party is set for the lion's share of the votes, so I’m not expecting any changes in politics or governmental transparency anytime soon. Look on the bright side though: if these elections produce no change, and they most likely will not, Kosovo will hardly be any different from other places in the world where elections give a comforting sign of progress to external observers that will write glowing reports back to their respective countries for Wikileaks to eventually debunk. At the absolute least, Kosovo elections resemble those in New Jersey: more of the same people turning elected positions into entrenched life-long careers. Tocqueville would be proud.

"I think it was great success.
In some areas the turnout was even 149%! "
(passing by, 13 December 2010 16:43)

Really impressive. Better than North Korea! And of this 149%, probably 140% is for Thaci? ;-)

Thanks for the link, bganon.

Some excerpts from it:
"In a speech at a mass rally for the Self-determination party in Pristina on the eve of polls, Walker accused Kosovo's government of the same abuse of power experienced under Serbian repression in the 1990s, adding that the international community was "complicit" in today's corruption. "In a word," he said, "many of the negative aspects of the Milosovic years are being repeated: leaders addicted to the same benefits of power, a willingness to do whatever is necessary to remain in office, continued access to illicit enrichment, a leadership without moral compass."

He's right about the current government under Thaci and his buddies. But is Kurti the right answer to these problems?

Wonder why B 92 didn't mention anything about the cheatings reported from Drenica? Hacim ,the snake, Thaci and hig gang bangers rigged the results of the votes. Not even under the watchful eye of the EU can the albs behave.

Really impressive. Better than North Korea! And of this 149%, probably 140% is for Thaci? ;-)
(Top, 13 December 2010)

I suspect 110% of the 149% votes went for Thaci.

do you really think that K-Alb really give a damn if Serbs voted or not in these elections?
(Denis, 13 December 2010 21:37)
--
Of course they do Denis, regardless of your irrelevant story. Tell me something, why do so many K-Albanians read and post here on B92? There are probably more than Serbian commentators. If you don't care for Serbians then please explain.

roberto says:

"The Serb nationalists (extreme or "moderate") always have an albanian to demonize."

and you always have an entire country and people to demonize as the scapegoat for everyone else's misfortune.

"also -- no one is mentioning the terror in mitrovica -- according to the article i sent yesterday, a serbian vigilante group (remember ww1 -- 20th century history??) assassinated the bosniak man who was working to help get out the vote in the north."

that agent of democracy was apparently a criminal himself. can't say i know the entire story, but let's not make the man into a martyr because it fits with your biases and prejudices.

so let me get this straight:

The "blgd regime" is basically full of fascists/communists who shelter mass murderers and stifle free speech. While the kleptocrats of the prstn league of super friends, many of whom were active members of a terrorist organization until the US conveniently took them off the list, are "progressive nationalists" that can be understood to draw voter support because of the big bad chetnik to the north?

bravo roberto. It must have been painful for you to be that scrutinous towards kosovo's current leadership for a few seconds.

thank you.

ciao! norberto -- fiasco

The Serb nationalists (extreme or "moderate") always have an albanian to demonize.
(roberto, 13 December 2010 21:48)

"Thank" you Roberto for an other insanity.

Lucky me, it looks increasingly that my grandma was an ethnic pravoslav Belarus and my dad from Hungary more Irish(!) than Jew.

So now - reading your comments - I feel "lucky" to apologize to Serbs and Russians for Jews only with half of the intensity I used to.

Still, it's not a nice feeling... would be you a 100% gentile, I would be much more happy.

"Not even under the watchful eye of the EU can the albs behave.
(Aloys, 13 December 2010)

Huh? Excuse me but how does the alleged vote rigging by one party equals to Albanians misbehaving?
(Zoti, 13 December 2010 22:03)"

It's in the system. It is the ability to hold elections that is in question.

Maybe you can explain to me something that I don't understand. Elsewhere there was significant loss of privacy and "family" voting. Is that ok? I'm honestly interested in your view.

It's in the system. It is the ability to hold elections that is in question.

Maybe you can explain to me something that I don't understand. Elsewhere there was significant loss of privacy and "family" voting. Is that ok? I'm honestly interested in your view.
(Mister, 13 December 2010 23:34)

Serbs don't get to have a say in this. Not when you pass a constitution claiming as your subjects a whole ethnic group while denying them the right to vote for such constitution. Serbs do not get to speak in the name of free elections and democracy. You have and respect neither.

Of course they do Denis, regardless of your irrelevant story. Tell me something, why do so many K-Albanians read and post here on B92? There are probably more than Serbian commentators. If you don't care for Serbians then please explain.
(Zoran, 13 December 2010 23:36)

The answer is simple. There is no other site either Serbian or Albanian on the internet that offers a debate between the two sides. If there was another site especially real time, the debate will shift there.

What is irrelevant about the story I brought here? Do you think Serbs commited no crimes in Kosovo whatsoever.

Whatever the disputes are, the facts stand that 50+ members of Jashari family were exterminated and among them women and children. The Serbian Gov has never denied this. Now in what country the police and army would be that careless and irresponsible to shell a house with 20+ women and children inside. They could have used tear gas continously, or use other disabilitating means, to save the civilians but apparently and as AI reported they didn't care who they killed.

Jashari a terrorist? Why because he attacked Serbian security forces? Ha really? Can you compare his deed with the terror Serbs brought upon Vukovar, Dubrovnik, Sarajevo, Srbrenica where civilians were killed en masse?

So when Albanians attack men in uniform they are terrorists, when Serbs kill at will mainly civilians they are freedom loving people.... oh what a joke.

All of the above, brings us to one conclusion. Thaci and the KLA was primarily a creation of Serbia. It was not K-Alb first choice, Rugova was, but you didn't want Rugova as an adversary, he was too civilized for you, you wanted Thaci and the KLA, and that's what you got.

''Of course they do Denis, regardless of your irrelevant story. Tell me something, why do so many K-Albanians read and post here on B92? There are probably more than Serbian commentators. If you don't care for Serbians then please explain.
(Zoran, 13 December 2010 23:36) ''

Why does B92 publish news in English at first place? If you don't want Albanians to get involved then post in serbo-croatian .

Thaci wins elections again? Is this really news? I hope he has noted (with the arrest of Sanaader) that promises of protection and immunity by 'special' countries are somewhat limited.

Why does B92 publish news in English at first place? If you don't want Albanians to get involved then post in serbo-croatian .
(iliri, 14 December 2010 01:25)
--
What does that have to do with my comment? Besides, go and check the Serbian language site and there are many KiM-Albanians posting there.

If as Denis suggests, KiM-Albanians don't care for Serbians then why do so many post here on this English site and also the Serbian site? The answer is of course you do care.