“China won’t change position on Serbia”

Thank you China. It won't be too long before you are the No.1 power in the world. It is great to have such an influential country on our side.

"wow, even China ambassador is flip-flopping like Serb politicians.
(Agim Kelmendi, 11 December 2010 18:12) "

What flip flop? The Chinese asked Serbia not to send any DIPLOMATS to the ceremony. Serbia didn't -- that ombudsman is not a diplomat.

wow, even China ambassador is flip-flopping like Serb politicians.

"You know there is nothing moral in you scratch my back (Tibet) - I'll scratch yours (Kosova)policy. There is no love, values, moral... invoices must be paid even if it is required from you to play the role of the clown- and you are in big trouble if you don't pay.
(ben, 11 December 2010 20:06) "

Well, if it suits both sides to scratch each others' backs, I would call that a mutually beneficial relationship albeit the trade-off required. Of course there will be other parties affected by this relationship, most notably of course "Kosova"'s UN entry hopes going up in smoke.

wow, even China ambassador is flip-flopping like Serb politicians.
(Agim Kelmendi, 11 December 2010 18:12)
===================

How so? When did China say they will cut off ties with Serbia if they send someone?
What I suspect is happening is that US and bullies pressured Serbia so much to send someone there in order for this relationship to deteriorate only to find out that China understands what they are up to and is not going to bite.

That's why they are sending someone low level. Give the US what they want so they cannot spew any propaganda and at the same time let China know just how much it means to them by sending that exact person.

The whole things was probably suggested by chess experts.

yes true, China has a restrictive policy at home, does not have the best freedom of expression but at least they do not mess all around the world spreading lies, torturing people and attacking sovereign countries for the sake of spreading "their democracy"...
Actually with the Assange story we are discovering that the United State of Arrogance has, for a change, their way of interpreting the freedom of expression...

“When asked if the attendance of Serbian Ombudsman Saša Janković” …..” but understood Serbia's situation and the pressure that it was placed under.”
The only pressure is that Tadic and Co had to send someone otherwise the paycheck the west would be cut off, but the most important thing is that the Ambassador did not attend – for those who acutely don't get it and most of the Albanians who are making asinine comments on this site, the Ombudsman represented Tadic and his cabal of western paid lackeys not the Serbian people or Serbia as a country.
Hope you understand the difference.

Proof positive that the whole thing was orchestrated by us & Chinese to show that we still support each other in spite of 'disagreements' or whatevah. Same with the 'sacking Jeremic' drama. It's naive to think that political happenings are transparent & spontaneous all the time in a democratic age that requires people to approve their leaders

The invoice was paid: Serbia played her role of clown at the Nobel price award as requested - thus Chinese position will not change.

You know there is nothing moral in you scratch my back (Tibet) - I'll scratch yours (Kosova)policy. There is no love, values, moral... invoices must be paid even if it is required from you to play the role of the clown- and you are in big trouble if you don't pay.

Zorane ! Not in your life time. we wont see China as a superpower soon bcs 60 % of chinese work for 60 cents a day for US companies and imagine those US companies leave China ,Chinese die hungry you know that.
(BLERO)
-
You evidently havent ever taken economics.

Ask yourself this;

IF US companies pulled out of China, would you be willing to pay $5 US for a pencil? Or 300 US$ for a pair of adidas?

Take a look of what you purchase, without China you wouldnt have any of them.

Stop Tadic and this mafia controlled government!

Say no to NATO!

Of course, there will be no change. But for that misbehaviour 50 000 - 100 000 Chinese have to enter Serbia, at least. No objections from Serbia allowed, or else...Kosovo.

Unfortunately, the regime in Beijing is so restrictive that a Chinese Wikileaks page will not likely occur.

IF US companies pulled out of China, would you be willing to pay $5 US for a pencil? Or 300 US$ for a pair of adidas?

Take a look of what you purchase, without China you wouldnt have any of them.
(trudsaam, 13 December 2010 01:05)

Why, when there's Vietnam, India and plenty of other cheap labor in Asia?
(johny)
-
You think those countries you mentioned will actially prefer to allign themselves with the West as opose to China?

Zorane ! Not in your life time. we wont see China as a superpower soon bcs 60 % of chinese work for 60 cents a day for US companies and imagine those US companies leave China ,Chinese die hungry you know that.

This is just diplomatic lingo for saying that the government in Belgrade does not know where it belongs..... I hope they join China or Russia for our cause.. But I would feel bad for the Serbian people

Thank you China. It won't be too long before you are the No.1 power in the world. It is great to have such an influential country on our side.
(Zoran, 11 December 2010 21:03)

If that makes you feel better.... :), because the practical effect is nil

by the way, number 1 for what ?

"criminal Liu Xiaobo"?

Not so diplomatic Mr. Ambassador. But really it stinks to take their part, for a country like Serbia that experienced its own version of dictatorship.

As an Albanian, I am pleased that Serbia showed clearly its priorities to West. As a citizen of the world, I am disgusted by Belgrade's position on this issue.

Like Ahtisaari, Liu Xiaobo only offers suggestions and solutions. Whether they are implemented and how they are implemented does not depend on them. Serbia is in bad company here, not because of its national interests but because of a lack of perspective and class.

I believe that it is not scratching each other's back rather a one way kissing a place that geographically is south from the back.

Oh Darn, China won't be recognizing "Kosova". I'll bet Albanians all over Kosovo were dreaming that now China would recognize the Kosovo Albanians' UDI. Sorry for the disappointment. It appears that China was sympathetic to Serbia's EU issue. It's funny how the EU forces others to follow its rules yet China can bend backwards for a friend. Some great place the EU is.

"And, then what ?!
(icj1, 13 December 2010 04:32)"

And then "Kosova" cannot become a UN member. Is this beyond your comprehension?

“Well, I apologize, but I thought it was YOU who said “most notably of course "Kosova"'s UN entry hopes going up in smoke”. That why I asked YOU, and then what ? Is there any practical consequence ? If you don’t have any, I think it’s fine. Don’t take this as trying to force you to find a practical consequence. “

You shouldn’t be asking me because I really couldn’t care less about “Kosova”’s welfare. I do think however that a lot of “Kosovars” must be unhappy at the current exclusion, including that ambassador contained in the link of my earlier post.



“I doubt... If UN had admitted Kosovo immediately, countries with separatist problems could have claimed (whether true or not) that Kosovo became independent BECAUSE UN accepted that independence; i.e. it would have established a precedent of UN being in control. Indeed the majority of countries understands that and would vote to admit Kosovo to the UN (as 109 of them did for the IMF and WB).
But there is a short-sighted minority (which includes Russia with the veto right) which doesn’t understand that the only thing they have achieved is to undermine THEIR control over independence processes with Kosovo being de facto and de jure independent from Serbia regardless of UN membership. They had a gold opportunity to demonstrate (at Serbia’s expense, of course) that they controlled independence, but they short-sightedly lost that opportunity and demonstrated the opposite.
(icj1, 23 December 2010 04:06)”

End of the day, “Kosova” can expect to remain outside the UN, perhaps indefinitely. And until a vote is actually carried out at the UN can anyone be sure whether a majority would have voted to admit Pristina. Don't forget that the UN, IMF and WB are organizations independent of one another and set up for different objectives.

The Russians and Chinese are strong supporters of Serbia and her pre-UDI borders. China in particular is obsessed about the inviolability of state borders because of the implications for Taiwan which she does not control.

“I did not ask you about Kosovo, Kosova’s or whatever welfare. I asked YOU about what YOU said that "Kosova's UN entry hopes going up in smoke”. Just wanted to get an idea how important that was and I usually judge importance by practical consequences. But, again, don’t take this as trying to force you to find a practical consequence. It’s possible there isn’t any. “

Well if you want practical consequences ie how it affects those K-Albanians, then you should get it from the horses' mouths, -- ask the K-Albanians themselves, including that ambassador who thought it was important enough to publicly announce UN entry to be Pristina’s goal. It doesn’t affect me and I am not shedding tears for “Kosova”’s continued exclusion from the UN.


“People may be unhappy about many things, but what is the impact on, say, independence of Kosovo ? Nil.”

If you think the feelings of those “Kosovars” are insignificant and trivial, well, that’s your opinion. I don’t think however that they will thank you for disregarding their opinions and feelings.


“Sure, similarly to, say, Morocco remaining outside of EU… let me know if you need more examples of countries remaining out of something (UN included). So, not sure what you are trying to show.”

Only Moroccan authorities have never voiced any desire to join the EU as far as I know, unlike those from Pristina about UN entry.

“Indeed, that’s why they lost the opportunity to prove, as Serbia’s expense, that they (Russia, China and the UNSC) are in control.
(icj1, 6 January 2011 06:02)”

Maybe they prefer to stand up to the Yankees and show their repugnance at the latter’s almost habitual aggression against sovereign countries – Serbia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Grenada, Cuba …… unlike you, they probably trivialized the need to be “in control”. They probably think that they are already in control in the face of Yankee displeasure – by thumbing their noses at the US and keeping the UN door firmly shut in “Kosova’s” face!

icj1,

By the way, in case you still don't realize it by now, you are WRONG about Morocco!

I stated that “Moroccan authorities have never voiced any desire to join the EU as far as I know” and you replied that “Morocco has, indeed, not only voiced the desire to join, but officially applied on 20 July 1987.”

Your statement is factually FALSE! The EU did NOT exist until the Maastricht Treaty came into force in 1993! Morocco applied to join the EEC in 1987 and not the EU. And the EEC is legally NOT the same entity as the EU!

You dug a hole for me and ended up falling into it yourself!

"It's naive to think that political happenings are transparent & spontaneous all the time in a democratic age that requires people to approve their leaders
highduke"

- I finally agree with you on something!

"Well, I comprehend that. But I asked, and then what ? If you don't understand the question, I'm helping you by telling what answer I'm expecting:

Kosovo can't become a UN member and as a result Kosovo can (can't) ....

(fill in the dots).
(icj1, 15 December 2010 10:16)"

You should ask those Pristina officials to fill in the blanks for you. They appear to want UN membership enough to make that goal public. See for example http://www.euractiv.com/en/enlargement/next-step-kosovo-un-membership-ambassador-news-496665

I should also add my view that the impasse for Kosovo suits UN members with their own separatists problems just fine and, of course, Serbia herself too.

“Well, as usual, you know it wrong because you never bother to do research. What did you think that I picked Morocco at random? I picked it precisely because I predicted that you’d make the comment above. You are so predictable, man. Morocco has, indeed, not only voiced the desire to join, but officially applied on 20 July 1987. “

I stated that “Moroccan authorities have never voiced any desire to join the EU as far as I know, unlike those from Pristina about UN entry.” Notice that I qualified my statement with “as far as I know”. Can you show me proof that Morocco in fact did apply in 1987 and that it is still keen to join TODAY?


“Those who are powerless, of course can only do nose thumbing….

By the way, as far as I’m aware “Kosova” has not knocked on the door of the UN (like it did on the door of IMF and WB) so there’s nothing to shut. In any case, as we both agreed, we can’t find any practical consequence of the UN door being open or shut.
(icj1, 5 March 2011 19:07)”

I wouldn’t agree that China is powerless. Anyway, her nose thumbing was probably one of the reasons for Pristina not to apply for UN entry to date. I didn’t say that “Kosova” has applied for UN entry, only that my news source showed that at least one of its leaders have voiced the wish for UN entry.

Of course there will be other parties affected by this relationship, most notably of course "Kosova"'s UN entry hopes going up in smoke.
(lowe, 12 December 2010 07:14)

And, then what ?!

IF US companies pulled out of China, would you be willing to pay $5 US for a pencil? Or 300 US$ for a pair of adidas?

Take a look of what you purchase, without China you wouldnt have any of them.
(trudsaam, 13 December 2010 01:05)

Why, when there's Vietnam, India and plenty of other cheap labor in Asia?

What is it about Serbia that acts like an insecure woman "Do you still love me China?"; "Do you still love me Russia?"; "Do you still love me Cyprus?"; "Do you still love me Slovakia?". Enough already. They will always love you.

You think those countries you mentioned will actially prefer to allign themselves with the West as opose to China?
(trudsaam, 14 December 2010 00:05)

No, they can sell pencils to the US and to China :). They will align themselves with the money, and the money is the same regardless where it comes from. Only Serbia makes policies based on battles from hundreds of years ago; the world has moved ahead.

And then "Kosova" cannot become a UN member. Is this beyond your comprehension?
(lowe, 14 December 2010 14:26)

Well, I comprehend that. But I asked, and then what ? If you don't understand the question, I'm helping you by telling what answer I'm expecting:

Kosovo can't become a UN member and as a result Kosovo can (can't) ....

(fill in the dots).

You should ask those Pristina officials to fill in the blanks for you. They appear to want UN membership enough to make that goal public. See for example [link]
(lowe, 15 December 2010 11:30)

Well, I apologize, but I thought it was YOU who said “most notably of course "Kosova"'s UN entry hopes going up in smoke”. That why I asked YOU, and then what ? Is there any practical consequence ? If you don’t have any, I think it’s fine. Don’t take this as trying to force you to find a practical consequence.



I should also add my view that the impasse for Kosovo suits UN members with their own separatists problems just fine and, of course, Serbia herself too.
(lowe, 15 December 2010 11:30)

I doubt... If UN had admitted Kosovo immediately, countries with separatist problems could have claimed (whether true or not) that Kosovo became independent BECAUSE UN accepted that independence; i.e. it would have established a precedent of UN being in control. Indeed the majority of countries understands that and would vote to admit Kosovo to the UN (as 109 of them did for the IMF and WB).
But there is a short-sighted minority (which includes Russia with the veto right) which doesn’t understand that the only thing they have achieved is to undermine THEIR control over independence processes with Kosovo being de facto and de jure independent from Serbia regardless of UN membership. They had a gold opportunity to demonstrate (at Serbia’s expense, of course) that they controlled independence, but they short-sightedly lost that opportunity and demonstrated the opposite.

You shouldn’t be asking me because I really couldn’t care less about “Kosova”’s welfare.
(lowe, 23 December 2010 10:26)

I did not ask you about Kosovo, Kosova’s or whatever welfare. I asked YOU about what YOU said that "Kosova's UN entry hopes going up in smoke”. Just wanted to get an idea how important that was and I usually judge importance by practical consequences. But, again, don’t take this as trying to force you to find a practical consequence. It’s possible there isn’t any.



I do think however that a lot of “Kosovars” must be unhappy at the current exclusion, including that ambassador contained in the link of my earlier post.
(lowe, 23 December 2010 10:26)

People may be unhappy about many things, but what is the impact on, say, independence of Kosovo ? Nil



End of the day, “Kosova” can expect to remain outside the UN, perhaps indefinitely.
(lowe, 23 December 2010 10:26)

Sure, similarly to, say, Morocco remaining outside of EU… let me know if you need more examples of countries remaining out of something (UN included). So, not sure what you are trying to show.



The Russians and Chinese are strong supporters of Serbia and her pre-UDI borders. China in particular is obsessed about the inviolability of state borders because of the implications for Taiwan which she does not control.
(lowe, 23 December 2010 10:26)

Indeed, that’s why they lost the opportunity to prove, as Serbia’s expense, that they (Russia, China and the UNSC) are in control.

Well if you want practical consequences ie how it affects those K-Albanians, then you should get it from the horses' mouths, -- ask the K-Albanians themselves, including that ambassador who thought it was important enough to publicly announce UN entry to be Pristina’s goal. It doesn’t affect me and I am not shedding tears for “Kosova”’s continued exclusion from the UN.
(lowe, 6 January 2011 14:25)

Ok, so you don’t know of any practical consequence. I don’t either. So, at least, we agree here.



Only Moroccan authorities have never voiced any desire to join the EU as far as I know, unlike those from Pristina about UN entry.
(lowe, 6 January 2011 14:25)

Well, as usual, you know it wrong because you never bother to do research. What did you think that I picked Morocco at random? I picked it precisely because I predicted that you’d make the comment above. You are so predictable, man. Morocco has, indeed, not only voiced the desire to join, but officially applied on 20 July 1987.



Maybe they prefer to stand up to the Yankees and show their repugnance at the latter’s almost habitual aggression against sovereign countries – Serbia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Grenada, Cuba …… unlike you, they probably trivialized the need to be “in control”. They probably think that they are already in control in the face of Yankee displeasure – by thumbing their noses at the US and keeping the UN door firmly shut in “Kosova’s” face!
(lowe, 6 January 2011 14:25)

Those who are powerless, of course can only do nose thumbing….

By the way, as far as I’m aware “Kosova” has not knocked on the door of the UN (like it did on the door of IMF and WB) so there’s nothing to shut. In any case, as we both agreed, we can’t find any practical consequence of the UN door being open or shut.

wow, even China ambassador is flip-flopping like Serb politicians.

The invoice was paid: Serbia played her role of clown at the Nobel price award as requested - thus Chinese position will not change.

You know there is nothing moral in you scratch my back (Tibet) - I'll scratch yours (Kosova)policy. There is no love, values, moral... invoices must be paid even if it is required from you to play the role of the clown- and you are in big trouble if you don't pay.

Of course, there will be no change. But for that misbehaviour 50 000 - 100 000 Chinese have to enter Serbia, at least. No objections from Serbia allowed, or else...Kosovo.

Unfortunately, the regime in Beijing is so restrictive that a Chinese Wikileaks page will not likely occur.

Zorane ! Not in your life time. we wont see China as a superpower soon bcs 60 % of chinese work for 60 cents a day for US companies and imagine those US companies leave China ,Chinese die hungry you know that.

This is just diplomatic lingo for saying that the government in Belgrade does not know where it belongs..... I hope they join China or Russia for our cause.. But I would feel bad for the Serbian people

"criminal Liu Xiaobo"?

Not so diplomatic Mr. Ambassador. But really it stinks to take their part, for a country like Serbia that experienced its own version of dictatorship.

As an Albanian, I am pleased that Serbia showed clearly its priorities to West. As a citizen of the world, I am disgusted by Belgrade's position on this issue.

Like Ahtisaari, Liu Xiaobo only offers suggestions and solutions. Whether they are implemented and how they are implemented does not depend on them. Serbia is in bad company here, not because of its national interests but because of a lack of perspective and class.

Thank you China. It won't be too long before you are the No.1 power in the world. It is great to have such an influential country on our side.
(Zoran, 11 December 2010 21:03)

If that makes you feel better.... :), because the practical effect is nil

by the way, number 1 for what ?

Thank you China. It won't be too long before you are the No.1 power in the world. It is great to have such an influential country on our side.

Proof positive that the whole thing was orchestrated by us & Chinese to show that we still support each other in spite of 'disagreements' or whatevah. Same with the 'sacking Jeremic' drama. It's naive to think that political happenings are transparent & spontaneous all the time in a democratic age that requires people to approve their leaders

Of course there will be other parties affected by this relationship, most notably of course "Kosova"'s UN entry hopes going up in smoke.
(lowe, 12 December 2010 07:14)

And, then what ?!

"It's naive to think that political happenings are transparent & spontaneous all the time in a democratic age that requires people to approve their leaders
highduke"

- I finally agree with you on something!

You should ask those Pristina officials to fill in the blanks for you. They appear to want UN membership enough to make that goal public. See for example [link]
(lowe, 15 December 2010 11:30)

Well, I apologize, but I thought it was YOU who said “most notably of course "Kosova"'s UN entry hopes going up in smoke”. That why I asked YOU, and then what ? Is there any practical consequence ? If you don’t have any, I think it’s fine. Don’t take this as trying to force you to find a practical consequence.



I should also add my view that the impasse for Kosovo suits UN members with their own separatists problems just fine and, of course, Serbia herself too.
(lowe, 15 December 2010 11:30)

I doubt... If UN had admitted Kosovo immediately, countries with separatist problems could have claimed (whether true or not) that Kosovo became independent BECAUSE UN accepted that independence; i.e. it would have established a precedent of UN being in control. Indeed the majority of countries understands that and would vote to admit Kosovo to the UN (as 109 of them did for the IMF and WB).
But there is a short-sighted minority (which includes Russia with the veto right) which doesn’t understand that the only thing they have achieved is to undermine THEIR control over independence processes with Kosovo being de facto and de jure independent from Serbia regardless of UN membership. They had a gold opportunity to demonstrate (at Serbia’s expense, of course) that they controlled independence, but they short-sightedly lost that opportunity and demonstrated the opposite.

Stop Tadic and this mafia controlled government!

Say no to NATO!

I believe that it is not scratching each other's back rather a one way kissing a place that geographically is south from the back.

yes true, China has a restrictive policy at home, does not have the best freedom of expression but at least they do not mess all around the world spreading lies, torturing people and attacking sovereign countries for the sake of spreading "their democracy"...
Actually with the Assange story we are discovering that the United State of Arrogance has, for a change, their way of interpreting the freedom of expression...

"wow, even China ambassador is flip-flopping like Serb politicians.
(Agim Kelmendi, 11 December 2010 18:12) "

What flip flop? The Chinese asked Serbia not to send any DIPLOMATS to the ceremony. Serbia didn't -- that ombudsman is not a diplomat.

"You know there is nothing moral in you scratch my back (Tibet) - I'll scratch yours (Kosova)policy. There is no love, values, moral... invoices must be paid even if it is required from you to play the role of the clown- and you are in big trouble if you don't pay.
(ben, 11 December 2010 20:06) "

Well, if it suits both sides to scratch each others' backs, I would call that a mutually beneficial relationship albeit the trade-off required. Of course there will be other parties affected by this relationship, most notably of course "Kosova"'s UN entry hopes going up in smoke.

And then "Kosova" cannot become a UN member. Is this beyond your comprehension?
(lowe, 14 December 2010 14:26)

Well, I comprehend that. But I asked, and then what ? If you don't understand the question, I'm helping you by telling what answer I'm expecting:

Kosovo can't become a UN member and as a result Kosovo can (can't) ....

(fill in the dots).

“When asked if the attendance of Serbian Ombudsman Saša Janković” …..” but understood Serbia's situation and the pressure that it was placed under.”
The only pressure is that Tadic and Co had to send someone otherwise the paycheck the west would be cut off, but the most important thing is that the Ambassador did not attend – for those who acutely don't get it and most of the Albanians who are making asinine comments on this site, the Ombudsman represented Tadic and his cabal of western paid lackeys not the Serbian people or Serbia as a country.
Hope you understand the difference.

wow, even China ambassador is flip-flopping like Serb politicians.
(Agim Kelmendi, 11 December 2010 18:12)
===================

How so? When did China say they will cut off ties with Serbia if they send someone?
What I suspect is happening is that US and bullies pressured Serbia so much to send someone there in order for this relationship to deteriorate only to find out that China understands what they are up to and is not going to bite.

That's why they are sending someone low level. Give the US what they want so they cannot spew any propaganda and at the same time let China know just how much it means to them by sending that exact person.

The whole things was probably suggested by chess experts.

Oh Darn, China won't be recognizing "Kosova". I'll bet Albanians all over Kosovo were dreaming that now China would recognize the Kosovo Albanians' UDI. Sorry for the disappointment. It appears that China was sympathetic to Serbia's EU issue. It's funny how the EU forces others to follow its rules yet China can bend backwards for a friend. Some great place the EU is.

IF US companies pulled out of China, would you be willing to pay $5 US for a pencil? Or 300 US$ for a pair of adidas?

Take a look of what you purchase, without China you wouldnt have any of them.
(trudsaam, 13 December 2010 01:05)

Why, when there's Vietnam, India and plenty of other cheap labor in Asia?

What is it about Serbia that acts like an insecure woman "Do you still love me China?"; "Do you still love me Russia?"; "Do you still love me Cyprus?"; "Do you still love me Slovakia?". Enough already. They will always love you.

"And, then what ?!
(icj1, 13 December 2010 04:32)"

And then "Kosova" cannot become a UN member. Is this beyond your comprehension?

You shouldn’t be asking me because I really couldn’t care less about “Kosova”’s welfare.
(lowe, 23 December 2010 10:26)

I did not ask you about Kosovo, Kosova’s or whatever welfare. I asked YOU about what YOU said that "Kosova's UN entry hopes going up in smoke”. Just wanted to get an idea how important that was and I usually judge importance by practical consequences. But, again, don’t take this as trying to force you to find a practical consequence. It’s possible there isn’t any.



I do think however that a lot of “Kosovars” must be unhappy at the current exclusion, including that ambassador contained in the link of my earlier post.
(lowe, 23 December 2010 10:26)

People may be unhappy about many things, but what is the impact on, say, independence of Kosovo ? Nil



End of the day, “Kosova” can expect to remain outside the UN, perhaps indefinitely.
(lowe, 23 December 2010 10:26)

Sure, similarly to, say, Morocco remaining outside of EU… let me know if you need more examples of countries remaining out of something (UN included). So, not sure what you are trying to show.



The Russians and Chinese are strong supporters of Serbia and her pre-UDI borders. China in particular is obsessed about the inviolability of state borders because of the implications for Taiwan which she does not control.
(lowe, 23 December 2010 10:26)

Indeed, that’s why they lost the opportunity to prove, as Serbia’s expense, that they (Russia, China and the UNSC) are in control.

Well if you want practical consequences ie how it affects those K-Albanians, then you should get it from the horses' mouths, -- ask the K-Albanians themselves, including that ambassador who thought it was important enough to publicly announce UN entry to be Pristina’s goal. It doesn’t affect me and I am not shedding tears for “Kosova”’s continued exclusion from the UN.
(lowe, 6 January 2011 14:25)

Ok, so you don’t know of any practical consequence. I don’t either. So, at least, we agree here.



Only Moroccan authorities have never voiced any desire to join the EU as far as I know, unlike those from Pristina about UN entry.
(lowe, 6 January 2011 14:25)

Well, as usual, you know it wrong because you never bother to do research. What did you think that I picked Morocco at random? I picked it precisely because I predicted that you’d make the comment above. You are so predictable, man. Morocco has, indeed, not only voiced the desire to join, but officially applied on 20 July 1987.



Maybe they prefer to stand up to the Yankees and show their repugnance at the latter’s almost habitual aggression against sovereign countries – Serbia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Grenada, Cuba …… unlike you, they probably trivialized the need to be “in control”. They probably think that they are already in control in the face of Yankee displeasure – by thumbing their noses at the US and keeping the UN door firmly shut in “Kosova’s” face!
(lowe, 6 January 2011 14:25)

Those who are powerless, of course can only do nose thumbing….

By the way, as far as I’m aware “Kosova” has not knocked on the door of the UN (like it did on the door of IMF and WB) so there’s nothing to shut. In any case, as we both agreed, we can’t find any practical consequence of the UN door being open or shut.

Zorane ! Not in your life time. we wont see China as a superpower soon bcs 60 % of chinese work for 60 cents a day for US companies and imagine those US companies leave China ,Chinese die hungry you know that.
(BLERO)
-
You evidently havent ever taken economics.

Ask yourself this;

IF US companies pulled out of China, would you be willing to pay $5 US for a pencil? Or 300 US$ for a pair of adidas?

Take a look of what you purchase, without China you wouldnt have any of them.

IF US companies pulled out of China, would you be willing to pay $5 US for a pencil? Or 300 US$ for a pair of adidas?

Take a look of what you purchase, without China you wouldnt have any of them.
(trudsaam, 13 December 2010 01:05)

Why, when there's Vietnam, India and plenty of other cheap labor in Asia?
(johny)
-
You think those countries you mentioned will actially prefer to allign themselves with the West as opose to China?

You think those countries you mentioned will actially prefer to allign themselves with the West as opose to China?
(trudsaam, 14 December 2010 00:05)

No, they can sell pencils to the US and to China :). They will align themselves with the money, and the money is the same regardless where it comes from. Only Serbia makes policies based on battles from hundreds of years ago; the world has moved ahead.

"Well, I comprehend that. But I asked, and then what ? If you don't understand the question, I'm helping you by telling what answer I'm expecting:

Kosovo can't become a UN member and as a result Kosovo can (can't) ....

(fill in the dots).
(icj1, 15 December 2010 10:16)"

You should ask those Pristina officials to fill in the blanks for you. They appear to want UN membership enough to make that goal public. See for example http://www.euractiv.com/en/enlargement/next-step-kosovo-un-membership-ambassador-news-496665

I should also add my view that the impasse for Kosovo suits UN members with their own separatists problems just fine and, of course, Serbia herself too.

“Well, I apologize, but I thought it was YOU who said “most notably of course "Kosova"'s UN entry hopes going up in smoke”. That why I asked YOU, and then what ? Is there any practical consequence ? If you don’t have any, I think it’s fine. Don’t take this as trying to force you to find a practical consequence. “

You shouldn’t be asking me because I really couldn’t care less about “Kosova”’s welfare. I do think however that a lot of “Kosovars” must be unhappy at the current exclusion, including that ambassador contained in the link of my earlier post.



“I doubt... If UN had admitted Kosovo immediately, countries with separatist problems could have claimed (whether true or not) that Kosovo became independent BECAUSE UN accepted that independence; i.e. it would have established a precedent of UN being in control. Indeed the majority of countries understands that and would vote to admit Kosovo to the UN (as 109 of them did for the IMF and WB).
But there is a short-sighted minority (which includes Russia with the veto right) which doesn’t understand that the only thing they have achieved is to undermine THEIR control over independence processes with Kosovo being de facto and de jure independent from Serbia regardless of UN membership. They had a gold opportunity to demonstrate (at Serbia’s expense, of course) that they controlled independence, but they short-sightedly lost that opportunity and demonstrated the opposite.
(icj1, 23 December 2010 04:06)”

End of the day, “Kosova” can expect to remain outside the UN, perhaps indefinitely. And until a vote is actually carried out at the UN can anyone be sure whether a majority would have voted to admit Pristina. Don't forget that the UN, IMF and WB are organizations independent of one another and set up for different objectives.

The Russians and Chinese are strong supporters of Serbia and her pre-UDI borders. China in particular is obsessed about the inviolability of state borders because of the implications for Taiwan which she does not control.

“I did not ask you about Kosovo, Kosova’s or whatever welfare. I asked YOU about what YOU said that "Kosova's UN entry hopes going up in smoke”. Just wanted to get an idea how important that was and I usually judge importance by practical consequences. But, again, don’t take this as trying to force you to find a practical consequence. It’s possible there isn’t any. “

Well if you want practical consequences ie how it affects those K-Albanians, then you should get it from the horses' mouths, -- ask the K-Albanians themselves, including that ambassador who thought it was important enough to publicly announce UN entry to be Pristina’s goal. It doesn’t affect me and I am not shedding tears for “Kosova”’s continued exclusion from the UN.


“People may be unhappy about many things, but what is the impact on, say, independence of Kosovo ? Nil.”

If you think the feelings of those “Kosovars” are insignificant and trivial, well, that’s your opinion. I don’t think however that they will thank you for disregarding their opinions and feelings.


“Sure, similarly to, say, Morocco remaining outside of EU… let me know if you need more examples of countries remaining out of something (UN included). So, not sure what you are trying to show.”

Only Moroccan authorities have never voiced any desire to join the EU as far as I know, unlike those from Pristina about UN entry.

“Indeed, that’s why they lost the opportunity to prove, as Serbia’s expense, that they (Russia, China and the UNSC) are in control.
(icj1, 6 January 2011 06:02)”

Maybe they prefer to stand up to the Yankees and show their repugnance at the latter’s almost habitual aggression against sovereign countries – Serbia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Grenada, Cuba …… unlike you, they probably trivialized the need to be “in control”. They probably think that they are already in control in the face of Yankee displeasure – by thumbing their noses at the US and keeping the UN door firmly shut in “Kosova’s” face!

“Well, as usual, you know it wrong because you never bother to do research. What did you think that I picked Morocco at random? I picked it precisely because I predicted that you’d make the comment above. You are so predictable, man. Morocco has, indeed, not only voiced the desire to join, but officially applied on 20 July 1987. “

I stated that “Moroccan authorities have never voiced any desire to join the EU as far as I know, unlike those from Pristina about UN entry.” Notice that I qualified my statement with “as far as I know”. Can you show me proof that Morocco in fact did apply in 1987 and that it is still keen to join TODAY?


“Those who are powerless, of course can only do nose thumbing….

By the way, as far as I’m aware “Kosova” has not knocked on the door of the UN (like it did on the door of IMF and WB) so there’s nothing to shut. In any case, as we both agreed, we can’t find any practical consequence of the UN door being open or shut.
(icj1, 5 March 2011 19:07)”

I wouldn’t agree that China is powerless. Anyway, her nose thumbing was probably one of the reasons for Pristina not to apply for UN entry to date. I didn’t say that “Kosova” has applied for UN entry, only that my news source showed that at least one of its leaders have voiced the wish for UN entry.

icj1,

By the way, in case you still don't realize it by now, you are WRONG about Morocco!

I stated that “Moroccan authorities have never voiced any desire to join the EU as far as I know” and you replied that “Morocco has, indeed, not only voiced the desire to join, but officially applied on 20 July 1987.”

Your statement is factually FALSE! The EU did NOT exist until the Maastricht Treaty came into force in 1993! Morocco applied to join the EEC in 1987 and not the EU. And the EEC is legally NOT the same entity as the EU!

You dug a hole for me and ended up falling into it yourself!