Tadić most popular, poll says

Well timed!!! I suspect this is now damage control considering Wikileaks has revealed that Tadic is a big sell-out and Jeremic is the workhorse of the DS. I had reservations about Jeremic but I now support him. It's time for him to leave the DS (or get sacked) and form his own party.

Here are the cables coming from Belgrade. Check http://46.59.1.2/origin/86_0.html

A very interesting read I must say. Bye bye Tadic. Bye bye DS.

A obvious manipulated poll and indeed damage control by an outgoing puppet regime in tatters. Tough luck Tadic, your masters dont even remember your name and oh, dont bump in to a lamp post on your way out...

There is much talk today about Liu Xiaobo, winner of the 2010 Peace Prize and a Chinese political prisoner. But there is no mention of the West’s own political prisoner, Dr Vojislav Šešelj, who is guilty of nothing more than being the most popular political figure in Serbia.

Well, if only a quarter of Serbs in Serbia actually support him, then an overwhelming number (three-quarters) don't. Then again, that's based on primary voting, which means nothing, since in the end it's all about preferences; if you were to narrow it down to two candidates (SNS and DS, it seems, are the frontrunners) then things would look much different.

My personal ideologies don't really match any of the parties in Serbia, but I'd trust Tadic to be leader of my country ten times more than Nikolic, Jovanovic, Seselj and Kostunica combined.

This is a response to 'truthiness'

You said "Liu Xiaobo is recognsied as a man of priciple whos actions , beliefs and writings have shown a peaceful man whos sole aim is to further democracy , freedoom and NON VIOLENCE."

I ask:
Recognized by who? There are apparently quite a few countries which dont 'recognize' him as being anything
other than a political dissident. You imply that the recognition of him is universal. It isnt.

As for all the garbage you wrote about Seselj, keep this fact in mind.
Seselj after all those years of being in the hague...still hasnt been convicted of anything.
So your hatred of him is based off of nothing other than your own ignorant and biased opinion.

Id also suggest you look up the definition of "freedom" and "democracy".
You seem to believe the two are intertwined or the same , which proves to me you've been brainwashed into believing that anything that
isnt democracy is inherently bad.

As for mentioning Hitler and Stalin, if thats the best you can do, comparing Seselj to these two men, not only
does it show the weakness of your arguement, but it also shows your ignorance.
Hitler was a Nazi. Nazi's believed slavic people to be inferior or sub-human. Which is why Croatian nazis killed
500,000 to 1million Serbs. How you can compare a SERB to people so inherently anti-Serb, requires doublethink.
And Stalin was a Communist, which by extension is internationalist. Seselj is a nationalist.
I again suggest you look up the definition of both words as they have opposite meanings.


Comparing someone to Hitler is a WEAK tactic.

Here's some food for thought.
You claim that democracy and non-violence is such a high virtue. Well unless I remember incorrectly, bombing Serbia for
4months straight was a VIOLENT act, and it was committed by, oh thats right, DEMOCRATIC countries.
China may be anti-democratic, but I dont recall it bombing anyone recently or criticisng anyone for not being
communist or a single party state.

Next time before you write a post, make sure you know what the words you are using mean, and get your facts straight.

This Poll is probably as reliable as any information put out by the government of North Korea, but assuming it IS real...
it shows how low the people of Serbia have actually sunk.

Some genius (balkanico) said a lot of Serbs in diaspora are at a distance with the true reality of whats happening in their mother country.

Well, most Serbs living in diaspora actually LIVE in FUNCTIONAL countries. They have something to compare the situation in Serbia to. What do Serbs in Serbia have to compare their situation to? The half-brained pipe dream garbage that spews out of Tadic's mouth?
Hes been in power for nearly 10years, and all hes really done is give away 15% of Serbian territory. Well done.

Serbs living out of Serbia, can see right through the lies and propaganda of all the cheap politicians in Belgrade, and their western paymasters.
While according to this poll, Serbs in Serbia have their head so far up their own 'situation' that they cannot distinguish day from night.

Hmm lets see...
We gave up Kosovo today. Tomorrow it could be Raska, or mayb Vojvodina. We shall let the Serbian people vote on it. We'll take a poll.

In any SANE country, a President which does nothing to stop 15% of his country being illegally taken, and then does nothing to help the citizens in it...would probably be impeached or jailed or something.

He wouldn't be supported by most of his country men.

Either this poll is absolute rubbish, or if its true...

No one will respect you until you can respect yourself.

Suicide bombers in Gaza have more self-respect and self-pride.
Its embarrassing.

Nothing to see here really, no surpise.

Zoran I agree with you that the cables make interesting reading. But your political senses are deceiving you - Tadic and DS is going nowhere.

Even if Jeremic left DS, it would mean what? Kostunica would not be able to muster 5% to enter parliament, SNS vote might go down a couple of points, DS support would decrease a few points.

This morning's Pres is interesting what with speculation that Tadic was angry with Jeremic for his part in the Nobel boycott. I'm not certain as to how much this is to with Tadic using Jeremic as a lightning rod for western criticism. But at the same time Jeremic has little support within DS so if he decides to walk out he won't be taking much with him.

You have to remember history - DS has absorbed the break away of many parties and they all finish up in single digits.

Surprising only for those who think the Serbian people posting here are a majority :)

Surprising only for those who think the Serbian people posting here are a majority :)
(Top, 10 December 2010 10:47)

Fully aware that most Serbs in Serbia, particularly those with education beyond primary school, do not share the views of diaspora Serbs posting here, luckily.

Nothing strange with that, most diaspora populations are after all at some distance from the true realities of their mother country.

Still somewhat surprised about the figures of support for Tadic though, after he has taken some beatings lately. Most of them selfinflicted.

This survey shows well that Serbia is parted between moderate and radical people. It's not going to be easy to make it to EU.

Yep, these characters here crying for the ousting of Tadic are nothing more than noisy and arrogant back row pupils in a classroom. In some cases the back row is located in Serbia but in most cases in Australia, USA, Canada, GB, etc. These pupils hardly look and listen what's going on in front, because they have created a parallel reality around themselves, believing to its rightfulness.

Like Zoran, who can't read what's been written in leaked US embassy files:

[Reported discussion between Tadic and US ambassador]

"Turning to Kosovo, Tadic told the Ambassador 'I must be as
clear as possible with you - Serbia will not change its views on
its territorial integrity. I want to be direct with you, as I have
with your other colleagues.'"

But as an ignorant pupil Zoran continues his cry about Tadic having done an opposite kind of deal with USA.

I suggests Zoran and the rest to come and smell the atmosphere in Serbian towns and in countryside. I don't say they wouldn't find people sharing their backwood views, but by majority Serbia truly is far from Zoran's parallel reality.

Olli, you probably know very well that most serbian people did vote for Nikolic. Tadic lost the serbian vote. The minorities in Serbia (without kosovo) make up almost 20% of the population. That is huge. The bulk of them vote for Tadic rather than Nikolic - lets say 90%. So that is why Tadic won by 2 percent. So clearly it is not a bunch of idiots who oppose tadic but a significant part of the population.

Olli, take off your rose tinted glasses and read them again properly. You'll see Tadic is limp and ready to sell Kosovo, give Serbia to NATO and continue to derail anything successful Jeremic does.

I live in Serbia and I visit my family in the villages quite often. They share the same opinion as me re: Tadic. Now that's my opinion. If someone likes the man then so be it, as my friend The Swiss does, which we discussed over some dinner tonight. He has his opinion and I have mine.

Now we did agreed on some things, like roberto's rants and catching up with Ataman and other B92 commentators if they come to Belgrade, regardless of opinions. The invitation is open to everyone - just send me an email zorank@email.com. Cheers! :)

"A obvious manipulated poll and indeed damage control by an outgoing puppet regime in tatters. "
(wtf, 10 December 2010 13:49)

Yes, totally staged, and forged, and manipulated? How else can it be? In fact, the real poll results nobody dares to publis is a support of 99,9% for Milosevic - what else ;-)

Hi hi, and I thought I had changed your opinion, f... missed again, most probably we didn't have enough Jelen...
(The Swiss, 10 December 2010 22:52)
--
You did change my opinion but probably not in the way you expected. I do understand Tadic's position and I do have sympathy for the guy but it's not something I want for the president of my country.

You're a business man. If you had a manager looking after your company, would you want to feel sympathy for the difficult situation he is in or kick his backside to get things in order?

Great catching up once again and see you soon!

There is much talk today about Liu Xiaobo, winner of the 2010 Peace Prize and a Chinese political prisoner. But there is no mention of the West’s own political prisoner, Dr Vojislav Šešelj, who is guilty of nothing more than being the most popular political figure in Serbia.
(Michael Thomas, 10 December 2010 16:42)

Sorry Michael but there is a huge and fundemental differnace.Liu Xiaobo is recognsied as a man of priciple whos actions , beliefs and writings have shown a peaceful man whos sole aim is to further democracy , freedoom and NON VIOLENCE.

Seselj on the other hand has been to proven to have contempt for democracy when he aligns himslef with known vote riggers ( Milosevic). Unless you are a rabid Serb nationalist , freedom apparntly doesnt apply to you , and as for non violence - dont even go down that path!!!!

Let me state the obvious here; the position of Mr Liu Xiaobo applies to all of us here , yourself , myself , any third reader whether we share an opinion of not. Mr Seselj on the other hand , is based on bigotry , rasism , violence , hatrad and anti democratic priciples and lets not forget that wonderful expletive ridden tirade at the Hague that showed the true class of the man. He is a man who acts as if benefits can only be shared with those that think only as he does. You know , kind of like those other historical peace lovers like Hitler, Stalin , Kim Il Sung and Milosevic et al.

No Michael , there is no comparison. To somehow claim any form of similarity defies belief.

say they wouldn't find people sharing their backwood views, but by majority Serbia truly is far from Zoran's parallel reality.
(Olli, 10 December 2010 16:50)

Come on Olli, Zoran is not that bad :) next time join us for a Jelen and you'll find it out yourself, maybe Bganon will join us too....
I agree with your comments in the country side, Mr Tadic is very well appreciated and get close to the people, which most probably makes him appreciated. Considering what he inherited and what he went thru I can only raise my hat for what he is trying to achieve. Of course it can always be better....

invitation is open to everyone - just send me an email zorank@email.com. Cheers! :)
(Zoran, 10 December 2010 21:37)

Hi hi, and I thought I had changed your opinion, f... missed again, most probably we didn't have enough Jelen, or the teletina wasn't salty enough :) but right you are, let's open our club to other B92 blogers even the one bad looking and having no job, as Joe would say... :))

The Swiss & Zoran,

As I don't think that Zoran is somewhat bad, I certainly welcome the idea of sitting down in front of beer or hot wine and listening to his story, and yours too. That will help me to understand not only what both of you are saying, but why you're saying it.

When I'm in Belgrade Znak pitanje is my place, usually (as it so perfectly symbolizes life). And yours?

@The Swiss,

By Monument you mean Kod konja, at Trg Republike?

That's where your eyes always catch objects that derails the thought... which is one reason why I often prefer Znak pitanje, for hard talk. Another reason is that when you have given all you got and taken all you had and finally drop on the floor the way down isn't that long from Znak pitanje's low, traditional three-legged chairs.

But I can join you two where ever. Right now I'm working some 500 km away, in Montenegro, but the moment I need a break, I'll head for Belgrade.

Yes, one of these days we could do a meet up. I'm not around the moment but sometime in the new year, why not?

Peggy actually I did think that Nikolic would take the majority of support from SRS. That was like watching a slow motion SRS car crash. Even though those within the crash were incredibly destructive, you couldn't help but feel sorry for them because none of them had the guts to stop the driver.

And which party would he join? You think that Jeremic would work under somebody else now? You think the ego of Kostunica would allow such a danger into his party, angering all the established leadership? Perhaps Vuk would finally allow a Vuk successor, maybe thats the best chance, but its a van party these days.

Besides, Nikolic created a new party from a solid number of SRS MPs and got many local party units to defect.

We shall see.

saying, but why you're saying it.

When I'm in Belgrade Znak pitanje is my place, usually (as it so perfectly symbolizes life). And yours?
(Olli, 11 December 2010 01:18)

Hi Olli, well since both of us are pratically permently now living in Bg, we do not have a special place to go, wherever the mood brings us. Nevertheless I always like to go to Monument in the center of the town, very nice place if you want to give your eyes some pleasure....
ok, then just give notice when you are around and let see how else want to catch up...
Both Zoran and myself (if I may talk on his behalf) have a totally different background in dealing in this country, that's maybe the reason we have opposite views, but we always have fun to talk about it mainly after a few Jelen or some good wine (Zoran is an expert...) and that's the most important...
Cheers
See you around

some 500 km away, in Montenegro, but the moment I need a break, I'll head for Belgrade.
(Olli, 11 December 2010 14:45)

No, Monument is a in place in the center next to the tax authorities building, great place, mainly in the summer, nice garden. Well, looking has never harmed anybody :)
Montenegro, well, not bad place to be, maybe not now and not in Podgorica, whereas I can't say that am a big fun of that place, prefers to head further north on the Croatian coast....
See ya around and good to see that Bganon and Jez 1 2 3 4 and... will eventually team up !

Thanks - there will be actually an occasion early Summer. A significant enemy force will be unleashed on three cities (BG-PR-OH), some very mean things are brewing at a certain tourist portal - but more about it later. Currently firmly embedded in BP, nearly under house-arrest till USB is not done.

Just crossing my fingers the geniuses at MFA will figure out what to do with Brazilians, Indians, Taiwanese, Malaysians, Ukrainians regarding visas. Totally counter-productive. :(

For some (Taiwan, China, South Africa, India) the Serbian visa is more difficult to get than Schengen. Hellloooo, they want donate free money to Serbia in exchange for one day spent near Kalemegdan, one day riding Sargan8, one day walking around Studenica.

I hope this is the last term in office of a "WEAK" President like him. Serbia should elect a leader who "NEVER" bows to Western pressure.

Yes, totally staged, and forged, and manipulated? How else can it be? In fact, the real poll results nobody dares to publis is a support of 99,9% for Milosevic - what else ;-)
(Top, 10 December 2010 16:05)

If you say so Bganon, much like another "democratic freedom fighter" of yours in Georgia with a 97% support, Tadic will recive something similar....

Same headline in Georgia:

Saakashvili most popular, poll says...

But at the same time Jeremic has little support within DS so if he decides to walk out he won't be taking much with him.
=======================

He doesn't need to take anyone with him. He only needs to join another party and his supporters (the people of Serbia) will follow him.

He could even start his own party and I betcha he would be able to pick up enough support.
Did you ever think that Nikolic would end up with as much support when he left the radicals?

@The Swiss,

I see, you mean the restaurant Monument? The one close to Ministry of Finance and Kneza Milosa?

Never been in, but walked by. When in Belgrade I live close to Zeleni Venac and often walk along Gavrila Principa in direction of Slavia, and then cross Kneza Milosa after passing the ministry.

I admit I rarely visit any hip places, sticking to places I know already from the 80's, or early 90's... I'm a relic. I think the newest place I've visited in recent years is the Corba Kafe (a rock club owned by Bora Djordjevic of Riblja Corba), very close to Sava river, right under the Brankov Bridge. I like to see some new bands that play there.

Montenegro is OK., even Podgorica. It's just been raining one hell of a lot recently.

I have to disagree with a lot of my diaspora Serb friends here. Despite Tadic's mistakes and humiliation he is still the best Serbia has at the moment. Not too nationalistic and not too servile (of course the degrees are open to interpretation).

People in diaspora basically think that Serbia is like the country they are living in (Australia, US, UK or in my case New Zealand) but with Tadic as the leader. OBVIOUSLY if that was the case then they would be right to hate on him, but this is NOT the case.

Serbs in diaspora will do wise to dwell on this point for a little while.

Serbia is a very small and weak country and it does not have the muscle flexing/building capabilities of industrialised and technologically advanced western countries. Therefore it HAS to lick boots to either get a better deal, make/keep friendly relations or simply surive. This is the reality that diaspora Serbs need to sink in to their heads.

Hey don't get me wrong, I love hearing nationalist remarks from Nikolic and co about how we should stay strong and not give in to EU or never recognising Kosovo etc etc but this is just rhetoric. This all sounds great to Serbian ears but where is the HOW in such speeches? How is Serbia supposed to increase their standard of living by flipping the bird to the west? How is defiance going to make us better off? Do we have a large nunmber of secret gold/diamond mines we don't know about or nano-tech labs working on research for various diseases and such?

The pride and euphoria people living in Serbia get after hearing such things will not quiet their bellies when it needs food and water.

Well timed!!! I suspect this is now damage control considering Wikileaks has revealed that Tadic is a big sell-out and Jeremic is the workhorse of the DS. I had reservations about Jeremic but I now support him. It's time for him to leave the DS (or get sacked) and form his own party.

Here are the cables coming from Belgrade. Check http://46.59.1.2/origin/86_0.html

A very interesting read I must say. Bye bye Tadic. Bye bye DS.

Nothing to see here really, no surpise.

Zoran I agree with you that the cables make interesting reading. But your political senses are deceiving you - Tadic and DS is going nowhere.

Even if Jeremic left DS, it would mean what? Kostunica would not be able to muster 5% to enter parliament, SNS vote might go down a couple of points, DS support would decrease a few points.

This morning's Pres is interesting what with speculation that Tadic was angry with Jeremic for his part in the Nobel boycott. I'm not certain as to how much this is to with Tadic using Jeremic as a lightning rod for western criticism. But at the same time Jeremic has little support within DS so if he decides to walk out he won't be taking much with him.

You have to remember history - DS has absorbed the break away of many parties and they all finish up in single digits.

Yep, these characters here crying for the ousting of Tadic are nothing more than noisy and arrogant back row pupils in a classroom. In some cases the back row is located in Serbia but in most cases in Australia, USA, Canada, GB, etc. These pupils hardly look and listen what's going on in front, because they have created a parallel reality around themselves, believing to its rightfulness.

Like Zoran, who can't read what's been written in leaked US embassy files:

[Reported discussion between Tadic and US ambassador]

"Turning to Kosovo, Tadic told the Ambassador 'I must be as
clear as possible with you - Serbia will not change its views on
its territorial integrity. I want to be direct with you, as I have
with your other colleagues.'"

But as an ignorant pupil Zoran continues his cry about Tadic having done an opposite kind of deal with USA.

I suggests Zoran and the rest to come and smell the atmosphere in Serbian towns and in countryside. I don't say they wouldn't find people sharing their backwood views, but by majority Serbia truly is far from Zoran's parallel reality.

A obvious manipulated poll and indeed damage control by an outgoing puppet regime in tatters. Tough luck Tadic, your masters dont even remember your name and oh, dont bump in to a lamp post on your way out...

There is much talk today about Liu Xiaobo, winner of the 2010 Peace Prize and a Chinese political prisoner. But there is no mention of the West’s own political prisoner, Dr Vojislav Šešelj, who is guilty of nothing more than being the most popular political figure in Serbia.
(Michael Thomas, 10 December 2010 16:42)

Sorry Michael but there is a huge and fundemental differnace.Liu Xiaobo is recognsied as a man of priciple whos actions , beliefs and writings have shown a peaceful man whos sole aim is to further democracy , freedoom and NON VIOLENCE.

Seselj on the other hand has been to proven to have contempt for democracy when he aligns himslef with known vote riggers ( Milosevic). Unless you are a rabid Serb nationalist , freedom apparntly doesnt apply to you , and as for non violence - dont even go down that path!!!!

Let me state the obvious here; the position of Mr Liu Xiaobo applies to all of us here , yourself , myself , any third reader whether we share an opinion of not. Mr Seselj on the other hand , is based on bigotry , rasism , violence , hatrad and anti democratic priciples and lets not forget that wonderful expletive ridden tirade at the Hague that showed the true class of the man. He is a man who acts as if benefits can only be shared with those that think only as he does. You know , kind of like those other historical peace lovers like Hitler, Stalin , Kim Il Sung and Milosevic et al.

No Michael , there is no comparison. To somehow claim any form of similarity defies belief.

"A obvious manipulated poll and indeed damage control by an outgoing puppet regime in tatters. "
(wtf, 10 December 2010 13:49)

Yes, totally staged, and forged, and manipulated? How else can it be? In fact, the real poll results nobody dares to publis is a support of 99,9% for Milosevic - what else ;-)

There is much talk today about Liu Xiaobo, winner of the 2010 Peace Prize and a Chinese political prisoner. But there is no mention of the West’s own political prisoner, Dr Vojislav Šešelj, who is guilty of nothing more than being the most popular political figure in Serbia.

This Poll is probably as reliable as any information put out by the government of North Korea, but assuming it IS real...
it shows how low the people of Serbia have actually sunk.

Some genius (balkanico) said a lot of Serbs in diaspora are at a distance with the true reality of whats happening in their mother country.

Well, most Serbs living in diaspora actually LIVE in FUNCTIONAL countries. They have something to compare the situation in Serbia to. What do Serbs in Serbia have to compare their situation to? The half-brained pipe dream garbage that spews out of Tadic's mouth?
Hes been in power for nearly 10years, and all hes really done is give away 15% of Serbian territory. Well done.

Serbs living out of Serbia, can see right through the lies and propaganda of all the cheap politicians in Belgrade, and their western paymasters.
While according to this poll, Serbs in Serbia have their head so far up their own 'situation' that they cannot distinguish day from night.

Hmm lets see...
We gave up Kosovo today. Tomorrow it could be Raska, or mayb Vojvodina. We shall let the Serbian people vote on it. We'll take a poll.

In any SANE country, a President which does nothing to stop 15% of his country being illegally taken, and then does nothing to help the citizens in it...would probably be impeached or jailed or something.

He wouldn't be supported by most of his country men.

Either this poll is absolute rubbish, or if its true...

No one will respect you until you can respect yourself.

Suicide bombers in Gaza have more self-respect and self-pride.
Its embarrassing.

Surprising only for those who think the Serbian people posting here are a majority :)

This survey shows well that Serbia is parted between moderate and radical people. It's not going to be easy to make it to EU.

Olli, you probably know very well that most serbian people did vote for Nikolic. Tadic lost the serbian vote. The minorities in Serbia (without kosovo) make up almost 20% of the population. That is huge. The bulk of them vote for Tadic rather than Nikolic - lets say 90%. So that is why Tadic won by 2 percent. So clearly it is not a bunch of idiots who oppose tadic but a significant part of the population.

Surprising only for those who think the Serbian people posting here are a majority :)
(Top, 10 December 2010 10:47)

Fully aware that most Serbs in Serbia, particularly those with education beyond primary school, do not share the views of diaspora Serbs posting here, luckily.

Nothing strange with that, most diaspora populations are after all at some distance from the true realities of their mother country.

Still somewhat surprised about the figures of support for Tadic though, after he has taken some beatings lately. Most of them selfinflicted.

Well, if only a quarter of Serbs in Serbia actually support him, then an overwhelming number (three-quarters) don't. Then again, that's based on primary voting, which means nothing, since in the end it's all about preferences; if you were to narrow it down to two candidates (SNS and DS, it seems, are the frontrunners) then things would look much different.

My personal ideologies don't really match any of the parties in Serbia, but I'd trust Tadic to be leader of my country ten times more than Nikolic, Jovanovic, Seselj and Kostunica combined.

This is a response to 'truthiness'

You said "Liu Xiaobo is recognsied as a man of priciple whos actions , beliefs and writings have shown a peaceful man whos sole aim is to further democracy , freedoom and NON VIOLENCE."

I ask:
Recognized by who? There are apparently quite a few countries which dont 'recognize' him as being anything
other than a political dissident. You imply that the recognition of him is universal. It isnt.

As for all the garbage you wrote about Seselj, keep this fact in mind.
Seselj after all those years of being in the hague...still hasnt been convicted of anything.
So your hatred of him is based off of nothing other than your own ignorant and biased opinion.

Id also suggest you look up the definition of "freedom" and "democracy".
You seem to believe the two are intertwined or the same , which proves to me you've been brainwashed into believing that anything that
isnt democracy is inherently bad.

As for mentioning Hitler and Stalin, if thats the best you can do, comparing Seselj to these two men, not only
does it show the weakness of your arguement, but it also shows your ignorance.
Hitler was a Nazi. Nazi's believed slavic people to be inferior or sub-human. Which is why Croatian nazis killed
500,000 to 1million Serbs. How you can compare a SERB to people so inherently anti-Serb, requires doublethink.
And Stalin was a Communist, which by extension is internationalist. Seselj is a nationalist.
I again suggest you look up the definition of both words as they have opposite meanings.


Comparing someone to Hitler is a WEAK tactic.

Here's some food for thought.
You claim that democracy and non-violence is such a high virtue. Well unless I remember incorrectly, bombing Serbia for
4months straight was a VIOLENT act, and it was committed by, oh thats right, DEMOCRATIC countries.
China may be anti-democratic, but I dont recall it bombing anyone recently or criticisng anyone for not being
communist or a single party state.

Next time before you write a post, make sure you know what the words you are using mean, and get your facts straight.

Yes, totally staged, and forged, and manipulated? How else can it be? In fact, the real poll results nobody dares to publis is a support of 99,9% for Milosevic - what else ;-)
(Top, 10 December 2010 16:05)

If you say so Bganon, much like another "democratic freedom fighter" of yours in Georgia with a 97% support, Tadic will recive something similar....

Olli, take off your rose tinted glasses and read them again properly. You'll see Tadic is limp and ready to sell Kosovo, give Serbia to NATO and continue to derail anything successful Jeremic does.

I live in Serbia and I visit my family in the villages quite often. They share the same opinion as me re: Tadic. Now that's my opinion. If someone likes the man then so be it, as my friend The Swiss does, which we discussed over some dinner tonight. He has his opinion and I have mine.

Now we did agreed on some things, like roberto's rants and catching up with Ataman and other B92 commentators if they come to Belgrade, regardless of opinions. The invitation is open to everyone - just send me an email zorank@email.com. Cheers! :)

say they wouldn't find people sharing their backwood views, but by majority Serbia truly is far from Zoran's parallel reality.
(Olli, 10 December 2010 16:50)

Come on Olli, Zoran is not that bad :) next time join us for a Jelen and you'll find it out yourself, maybe Bganon will join us too....
I agree with your comments in the country side, Mr Tadic is very well appreciated and get close to the people, which most probably makes him appreciated. Considering what he inherited and what he went thru I can only raise my hat for what he is trying to achieve. Of course it can always be better....

invitation is open to everyone - just send me an email zorank@email.com. Cheers! :)
(Zoran, 10 December 2010 21:37)

Hi hi, and I thought I had changed your opinion, f... missed again, most probably we didn't have enough Jelen, or the teletina wasn't salty enough :) but right you are, let's open our club to other B92 blogers even the one bad looking and having no job, as Joe would say... :))

Thanks - there will be actually an occasion early Summer. A significant enemy force will be unleashed on three cities (BG-PR-OH), some very mean things are brewing at a certain tourist portal - but more about it later. Currently firmly embedded in BP, nearly under house-arrest till USB is not done.

Just crossing my fingers the geniuses at MFA will figure out what to do with Brazilians, Indians, Taiwanese, Malaysians, Ukrainians regarding visas. Totally counter-productive. :(

For some (Taiwan, China, South Africa, India) the Serbian visa is more difficult to get than Schengen. Hellloooo, they want donate free money to Serbia in exchange for one day spent near Kalemegdan, one day riding Sargan8, one day walking around Studenica.

Hi hi, and I thought I had changed your opinion, f... missed again, most probably we didn't have enough Jelen...
(The Swiss, 10 December 2010 22:52)
--
You did change my opinion but probably not in the way you expected. I do understand Tadic's position and I do have sympathy for the guy but it's not something I want for the president of my country.

You're a business man. If you had a manager looking after your company, would you want to feel sympathy for the difficult situation he is in or kick his backside to get things in order?

Great catching up once again and see you soon!

I hope this is the last term in office of a "WEAK" President like him. Serbia should elect a leader who "NEVER" bows to Western pressure.

The Swiss & Zoran,

As I don't think that Zoran is somewhat bad, I certainly welcome the idea of sitting down in front of beer or hot wine and listening to his story, and yours too. That will help me to understand not only what both of you are saying, but why you're saying it.

When I'm in Belgrade Znak pitanje is my place, usually (as it so perfectly symbolizes life). And yours?

Same headline in Georgia:

Saakashvili most popular, poll says...

But at the same time Jeremic has little support within DS so if he decides to walk out he won't be taking much with him.
=======================

He doesn't need to take anyone with him. He only needs to join another party and his supporters (the people of Serbia) will follow him.

He could even start his own party and I betcha he would be able to pick up enough support.
Did you ever think that Nikolic would end up with as much support when he left the radicals?

saying, but why you're saying it.

When I'm in Belgrade Znak pitanje is my place, usually (as it so perfectly symbolizes life). And yours?
(Olli, 11 December 2010 01:18)

Hi Olli, well since both of us are pratically permently now living in Bg, we do not have a special place to go, wherever the mood brings us. Nevertheless I always like to go to Monument in the center of the town, very nice place if you want to give your eyes some pleasure....
ok, then just give notice when you are around and let see how else want to catch up...
Both Zoran and myself (if I may talk on his behalf) have a totally different background in dealing in this country, that's maybe the reason we have opposite views, but we always have fun to talk about it mainly after a few Jelen or some good wine (Zoran is an expert...) and that's the most important...
Cheers
See you around

@The Swiss,

By Monument you mean Kod konja, at Trg Republike?

That's where your eyes always catch objects that derails the thought... which is one reason why I often prefer Znak pitanje, for hard talk. Another reason is that when you have given all you got and taken all you had and finally drop on the floor the way down isn't that long from Znak pitanje's low, traditional three-legged chairs.

But I can join you two where ever. Right now I'm working some 500 km away, in Montenegro, but the moment I need a break, I'll head for Belgrade.

Yes, one of these days we could do a meet up. I'm not around the moment but sometime in the new year, why not?

Peggy actually I did think that Nikolic would take the majority of support from SRS. That was like watching a slow motion SRS car crash. Even though those within the crash were incredibly destructive, you couldn't help but feel sorry for them because none of them had the guts to stop the driver.

And which party would he join? You think that Jeremic would work under somebody else now? You think the ego of Kostunica would allow such a danger into his party, angering all the established leadership? Perhaps Vuk would finally allow a Vuk successor, maybe thats the best chance, but its a van party these days.

Besides, Nikolic created a new party from a solid number of SRS MPs and got many local party units to defect.

We shall see.

some 500 km away, in Montenegro, but the moment I need a break, I'll head for Belgrade.
(Olli, 11 December 2010 14:45)

No, Monument is a in place in the center next to the tax authorities building, great place, mainly in the summer, nice garden. Well, looking has never harmed anybody :)
Montenegro, well, not bad place to be, maybe not now and not in Podgorica, whereas I can't say that am a big fun of that place, prefers to head further north on the Croatian coast....
See ya around and good to see that Bganon and Jez 1 2 3 4 and... will eventually team up !

@The Swiss,

I see, you mean the restaurant Monument? The one close to Ministry of Finance and Kneza Milosa?

Never been in, but walked by. When in Belgrade I live close to Zeleni Venac and often walk along Gavrila Principa in direction of Slavia, and then cross Kneza Milosa after passing the ministry.

I admit I rarely visit any hip places, sticking to places I know already from the 80's, or early 90's... I'm a relic. I think the newest place I've visited in recent years is the Corba Kafe (a rock club owned by Bora Djordjevic of Riblja Corba), very close to Sava river, right under the Brankov Bridge. I like to see some new bands that play there.

Montenegro is OK., even Podgorica. It's just been raining one hell of a lot recently.

I have to disagree with a lot of my diaspora Serb friends here. Despite Tadic's mistakes and humiliation he is still the best Serbia has at the moment. Not too nationalistic and not too servile (of course the degrees are open to interpretation).

People in diaspora basically think that Serbia is like the country they are living in (Australia, US, UK or in my case New Zealand) but with Tadic as the leader. OBVIOUSLY if that was the case then they would be right to hate on him, but this is NOT the case.

Serbs in diaspora will do wise to dwell on this point for a little while.

Serbia is a very small and weak country and it does not have the muscle flexing/building capabilities of industrialised and technologically advanced western countries. Therefore it HAS to lick boots to either get a better deal, make/keep friendly relations or simply surive. This is the reality that diaspora Serbs need to sink in to their heads.

Hey don't get me wrong, I love hearing nationalist remarks from Nikolic and co about how we should stay strong and not give in to EU or never recognising Kosovo etc etc but this is just rhetoric. This all sounds great to Serbian ears but where is the HOW in such speeches? How is Serbia supposed to increase their standard of living by flipping the bird to the west? How is defiance going to make us better off? Do we have a large nunmber of secret gold/diamond mines we don't know about or nano-tech labs working on research for various diseases and such?

The pride and euphoria people living in Serbia get after hearing such things will not quiet their bellies when it needs food and water.