Kosovo recognitions stall despite ICJ

Two US aid-dependent specks in the Pacific and a banana republic whose government was intalled by a US-backed coup. Not a very impressive tally is it? It's hard to see what can inspire the much vaunted flood of recognitions now. Time is on Serbia's side.

PRN, I forgot, when is Serbia supposed to recognise "Kosova"? I thought you predicted last September or was that the date of the third wave of mass recognitions?

Anyway, back to reality. Independence is a dead issue and irreversibly blocked. Time to negotiate a just and sustainable compromise. How much longer can the people living in "Kosova" tolerate remaining in isolation?

Up to now 72 countries have recognized Kosovo's independence and keep in mind majority of them are most developed and democratic countries in the world.
(ivan, 3 December 2010 13:44)
--
Yawn.... you mean the most indebted countries in the world right?

Anyway, this just goes to show how much influence the west has lost. If this was done in the 90s, Kosovo would probably be independent by now but with the rise of China and a resurging Russia, independence is a dead in the water matter.

Maybe things would be different if the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade wasn't bombed or if Clark didn't order NATO forces to attack Russians at Pristina airport but we know it did happen and China plus Russia will never, and I mean never reward NATO for what it did.

Anyway, it's not up to all those ethnic Albanians living comfortably in the west. As we can see from recent surveys, it's the people living in Kosovo who are increasingly disillusioned about "independence". It hasn't changed anything except isolated them even further. Real negotiations are the only way.

Why "Kosovo recognitions stall despite ICJ" ?

I think it has exactly been the ICJ (non-)ruling which only said 'the UDI is not against the international law' and which avoided to make any comment about the legality of the statehood of Kosovo. That's why no further countries (except some 'lobbied' island) were encouraged to recognize Kosovo.

If you Serbs are happy, that is good.

We are (even more) happy.

Do not worry, more recognations to come.

Cheers

Clearly, the "wave of recognitions" story was a myth, meant to influence other countries to recognize Kosovo's UDI. It's funny how some people celebrate something they BELIEVE WILL HAPPEN instead of something that HAS ACTUALLY HAPPENED. That's not a good idea for it can only lead to disappointment.

Not only have 3 states recognized the UDI but a couple of those states will be unddmdr water in our lifetime due to global warming

no mater slow but secure

Serbophilia notwithstanding, I have to admit I am rather surpised at the lack of recognitions following the ICJ verdict. I was at least expecting about a dozen or so recognitions from countries that were probably waiting for some sort of verdict so they could make their decision "in compliance" with international legitimacy. But having only three recognitions - and recognitions from countries that barely matter - is more than embarrasing for the US in general and the Pristina government in particular (especially in light of repeated statements by Hash and Hysterical that recognitions would come at least by the end of September). After the ICJ ruling, which seems now to be irrelevant, the heavy nay-sayers have remained: no movement from the 5 in the EU, no change in Russia or China, no movement by India, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Indonesia, or South Africa.

Whether the lack of recognitions has anything to do with countries ultimately deciding its not worth their interest, or the diplomatic acumen of Vuk, the process is clearly frozen and no forward movement can result without a definitive agreement with Belgrade.

There is two more things to be mentioned.
1) The number, quality and importance of states that recognized Kosovo is increasingly insignificant.
2) There is a rising number of important countries that have been reluctant before but after ICJ clearly declare to be against Kosovo independence. Countries like Indonesia, South-Africa, Argentina, Brazil Romania and others. I would say: Not only the recognitions are missing, The determined NONrecognitions are rising. The latter will be a weightily criterion at the negotiation table.

"Kosovo didn`t complain of having not enough recognitions. Why do you worry?
(Baresi, 3 December 2010 13:32)"

Maybe it dare not complain in case its new masters in the EU are offended?

Actually I don't think Dave was worrying in the least. More like rejoicing. :)

The international community is clearly telling the Kalbs to sit down and negotiate to prevent further problems down the road. Makes complete sense to everyone except the Kalbs ( and i include the Americans)

RE; ICJ ruling backfires on the Albanians

Until the thick headed Albanian government recognizes that they must negotiate with Serbia and make concessions, than Kosovo will continue to be a pariah state, without full international recognition indefinitely.

The time is now as Tadic is becoming very unpopular in Serbia and the next leader may not be in the same position to negotiate.

Of course Serbia is responsible for the full diplomatic victory and Russia was fully behind her. Skender Hysani (sp) has hurt the Albanians more than he has helped; Jeremic is constantly flying around the world, making appearances, etc.

Skender Hysani can't even arrange to get a guest seat at the UN Assembly let along negotiate recognitions.

The ICJ ruling was politically motivated and influenced and did not set the precedent to change UN resolution 1244 which guarantees the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Serbia so in the preamble and reinforced throughout the document.

KU, if you are a journalist, learn how to write, both grammatically and in content. What in the world are you trying to say? Anyway, I do enjoy reading comments from the Albanians when they are on the defensive - they are so cute.

If none of the above options are possible then we blow Kosova up but never give it to Serbia again
(UNE, 3 December 2010 12:02)

Whilst I support Serbia's rights in Kosovo completely, this is a very tempting offer you're making, UNE, and one that most of the civilised world would gladly accept..

Like I have always said. This is all planed. First we make sure that the Big Democracies are with us. If no UN seat in 10 years referendum and Kosovo will be attached to Albania. If none of the above options are possible then we blow Kosova up but never give it to Serbia again

Up to now 72 countries have recognized Kosovo's independence and keep in mind majority of them are most developed and democratic countries in the world.

Imagine how few countries would have recognized Kosovo if there was no threat and pressure coming from America and their lap dogs. Besideds Kosovo has absolutely nothing to offer any country so why recognize? Most of those countries that recognized the illegal UDI did so to be able to return k-albanian criminals without having to hear albanians complain of how they can't be sent back because of "evil Serbs". Great job Serbia in keeping your territorial integrity intact.

This article does not mention that a lot of these recognitions were forced, or bought, by US State Dept. and Albanian lobby money. Tiny Pacific nations like Tuvalu and Kiribati are a classic example. But that is fine, as we see from the WikiLeaks, DC pushed their "Kosova Project" on everyone that would listen. In any case, little Serbia has stood up to a world giant (USA), and refused to roll over in the West's occupation of its land. They (Serbia) could not do anything militarily, but Belgrade, Vuk and co., have certainly put a big finger in America's eye diplomatically. I am proud of our nation and people. I do not know how this will all end, but I am glad that DC is being exposed the self-serving bully that they have become. I. as an American, am ashamed that people like the Clinton's, Holbrookes, Frieds, Albrights, represented me, and did things in the name of the American people. CCCC.

Denis, Serbia doesn't want to rule ethnic Albanians (no thanks) or even have them under our system but we are not accepting independence either. If your world wasn't so black and white you might understand what I'm talking about.

Anyway, it's not up to all those ethnic Albanians living comfortably in the west. As we can see from recent surveys, it's the people living in Kosovo who are increasingly disillusioned about "independence". It hasn't changed anything except isolated them even further. Real negotiations are the only way.
(Zoran, 3 December 2010 15:22)

Zoran, if K-Alb make the other choice, stay under Serbia, they will sooner or later DIE, at least this is their belief. There are very convincing historical precendets for this, that no one can deny. The conflict has been there since day one of Kosovo being part of Serbia.

You just can't sit there, and with a straight face promise Serbia will not make another attempt to exterminate K-Alb and there will be no more war. You have no basis to support this kind of claims.

It is only logical. Please follow my reasoning here for a second.

If K-Alb decide to live under Serbia, they will become a major force in the state of Serbia, and in maybe 100 yrs they most likely (together with other minorities), will become a majority and take over Serbia, by a mere democratic plurality. Serbia will never allow that, it can't and normally it shouldn't. So it will find a way to start a conflict with goal to expell K-Alb from there and maintain Serbian majority ....thus again there will be a bitter war, this time essentially for the very existence of Serbia.

So let's not lie to each other. K-alb will never accept to live under Serbia no matter what they have to go through, now and Serbia in the long run has no interest to keep K-Alb within the country only to face a bitter problem latter.

Whilst I support Serbia's rights in Kosovo completely, this is a very tempting offer you're making, UNE, and one that most of the civilised world would gladly accept..
(Dave, 3 December 2010 12:46)


Kosovo didn`t complain of having not enough recognitions. Why do you worry?

I have never read anywhere that Albania wants to absorb Kosovo. Why would they - to inherit more poverty, more unemployed people, more crime, more corruption - not to mention the ruling clan families in Albania do not want any Kosovo clan families on their turf. rebellious Serbs in N. Kosovo, and so forth. There is no benefit for Albania in this Illyrian union Albanians on this site talk about, that I can see. Can a pro-Albanian here please provide a link that states that Tirana would want to absorb Kosovo, I would enjoy reading that.

I read some of the comments here and they dont make sense. First was no Country will recognise.. Then Russia will invade... Than Montenegro and macedonia never will( we know how that went right) than it was that Malasyia never will( according to jeremic's press release)http://glassrbije.org/E/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3898

ETC ETC ETC ETC

Than it was there will be withdrawing recognitions from all these countries. But it never happend http://www.emportal.co.rs/en/news/serbia/83632.html

http://www.kosovocompromise.com/cms/item/topic/en.html?view=story&id=2017§ionId=1

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=104193 the above tells you abot the russian influence they cnat get Macedonia to recognise Akhbasia or to withdraw their recogniion of Kosovo, byt yet Kosova can get Kiribat. Palau and Hounduras( which by the way we have an embassy there now as of today)


.... Now it is they have comme to a stand still.

Get a grip it is either a memebr of UN in 20 years or absorbed in Albania in 10 years and than you know that our borders are guaranteed by NATO. So this is the only choice Serbia has

Looks like you serbs are more worried about our recognitions than we are.Count the recognitions, count the years, bash the countries that recognize. One thing that looks certain to happen is that Serbia will become an EU member only after Kosovo becomes an UN member. The longer it takes us to get there the more years Serbia will have to wait for the EU membership even in case it has reached all the economic standards. Keep in mind that during this time Albania also is trying to get to the EU.So in case Albania becomes an EU member before Serbia than things will get much more complicated for Serbia.

If Serbia had given up on its path in 1817, two years after it got its first tiny tiny positive results....It would have been much better for the whole region and peace in the world....one could say this for example.

KU,
Journalist,
New York

ICJ has been asked by Serbs not Albanians! Albanians try to prevent it and Serbs celebrated the trial as victory, making 500 announcement a day about victory. And now, you the very same people celebrate that "only" 3 countries have recognized Kosovo.

Guys, you wanted to RESCIND recognitions with the ICJ. That definitely failed. Clear Albanian victory. Nothing more to say.

Albanians don't know how to negotiate or refuse to do so (and certainly not without american/british/whomever 'advisors' to dot the 'i''s and cross the 't's.

I've just read that Pristina is demanding abolition of visas by Brussels before it will even start talks with Belgrade.

Biting the hand that feeds? With wisdom like that, nothing is possible.

But maybe they are confused about Brussels as many people still are (and think it is the Emerald City from the Wizard of Oz which fixed everything for you (as your own corrupt governments can't)). The abolition of visas squeaks come from that chamber of second rate european politicians (who cannot cut it at home), a grouping known as the European Parliament.

The Council of Ministers have final and the Commission is there to make sure standards are not only legally adopted but effectively implemented. In the latter case, the disastrous acceptance of Bulgaria and Romania into the EU who had not (and still do not) implemented EU law has tied the Commission's hands on turning a blind eye. This makes it much tougher for the remaining balkan states who wish to be handed their Bruxelles (fools) gold.

BTW, the Palestinians will declare unilateral independence sooner than later as there is no deal to be done. Add that to the 'unique' UDI of Kosovo, followed by S. Ossetia & Abkhazia. Who knows if it will be the start of a chain reaction, but it took quite some time for President Wilson's idea of the right to self-determination to catch on. If it does, we can all warm our hands on the fires that will burn around the world. Congrats.

We have what we wanted,we do not care about Kosova becoming a country,all we wanted is to be free and serbia out of Kosova.Soner or later we will Kosova will be Albania.Thats what 95%of Kosova people want.

Maybe Kosovo would have had more recognitions by now if Hyseni before he resigned hadn't of sent letter to 15 countries (who were prepared to recognise Kosovo) telling them not to recognise Kosovo as it currently doesn't have a full Government. He did this as he didn't want the PDK doing well before the election which the LDK will be contesting.

The story of Kosovo's recognition battle is one of the things I'm looking forward to learning about from WikiLeaks. There have been mentions in various places of the tactics Russia (not Serbia) is using to prevent otherwise indifferent countries from recognizing it - for example, the guy who is flying around the world to lobby for Kosovo mentioned that Paraguay would be willing, but Russia threatened consequences for its trade. America may be willing to offer help (with international loans, development grants, etc.), but so far I haven't seen anything in the way of threats. And as Machiavelli wrote, it's better to be feared than loved. So this may take a while, guys. Not being in the UN may be embarrassing (Serbia is certainly pushing that line), but it doesn't mean not being able to develop - it hasn't prevented Taiwan from becoming an economic powerhouse.

If Serbia had given up on its path in 1817, two years after it got its first tiny tiny positive results....It would have been much better for the whole region and peace in the world....one could say this for example.

KU,
Journalist,
New York
(KU, 3 December 2010 15:22)

And if the Iraqi and Afghan fighters all stood still or ran up them hills--we would've won both wars and I wouldn't be so dang broke and be sitting here drinking cheap Mexican rot-gut mescal and playing "IF" games with total strangers. Anyway if


If KAs chose someone other than Hazel to lobby for their recognitions and if they did away with the first song--maybe you would've had a few more by now.

[link]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWCAqejqzFE[/link]


Johnny "Longhorn",
Cowboy/breeder of Texas longhorns,
Texas

“…… America may be willing to offer help (with international loans, development grants, etc.)…..”
“….it hasn't prevented Taiwan from becoming an economic powerhouse.
(Amer, 3 December 2010 17:27)

The Detroit district alone has closed some 29 schools, and this is only one area in the US. In the last 6 months Detroit authorities asked the federal government twice to allow the National Guard to patrol some of the streets because what’s left of the local police cannot cope with the high level of crime and your free Kosovo is looking for loans or development grants to become a powerhouse like Taiwan.
Also, on 3 December 2010, it was announced by your media that Obama has frozen government workers’ salaries for two years because if these drastic actions are not taken then the Federal government would run out of money to pay teachers, police etc. And you’re looking for the US to organize loans – I think they would try and get some for themselves if they could.
In the last 11 years the only thing the west has opened in Kosovo is several cans of Coke. It has not spent a cent on their allies, but it did kill about 10 000 during the bombing and you guys cling on this US as if it’s God.
As China is the only country on the IMF board that is solvent and in fact if it did not pour several billion dollars into the IMF otherwise it would have closed its doors, I suggest that you go and ask them for a loan. Currently it has about 3 trillion in reserves.

Guys, you wanted to RESCIND recognitions with the ICJ. That definitely failed. Clear Albanian victory. Nothing more to say.
(JohnC., 3 December 2010 18:09)

Now as the ICJ has ruled in favor of the Albanians I suggest that you go back to that institution and request “as you have concluded that the act of declaration is not illegal, now please now declare Kosovo independent ”. The cost would be minimal to revisit the ICJ.
Unfortunately, the US would shoot anyone who would even dare think of going back to the ICJ ; some victory eh?
It’s now status quo and the quagmire continues unabated.
KU,
Journalist,
New York
(KU, 3 December 2010 15:22)
Does Elvis Presley work with you?

“….The longer it takes us to get there the more years Serbia will have to wait for the EU membership even in case it has reached all the economic standards. Keep in mind that during this time Albania also is trying to get to the EU. So in case Albania becomes an EU member before Serbia than things will get much more complicated for Serbia.
(Mark, 3 December 2010 19:15)

Serbia does not need the EU because it has all that is required to have a normal state unlike the Albanians who think that the EU is a social security haven – once in there no one needs to work.
Have a good look around and open your eyes and you just might see that the EU is in deep trouble and does not need any more people with their hands out begging for money.

it's the people living in Kosovo who are increasingly disillusioned about "independence"

And the winner is not serbia but the idea of an union albania kosova:yesterday only historical like balli or legaliteti dared to speak for that,today it is a federative movement in albania just as in kosova.
thank you guys for your contribution to this union:the more you push against independence the more the idea of this union is seen as THE solution!
Just go on!

"Of course ,we do!
Just remember that the partition of ex yu was not at all accepted by the west at the beginning and kosovo independence not even discussed.years later,kosovo is independent and yu partitioned!
Don't worry,we enjoy having 2countries,and as one country or as 2 countries,we are already united and wil only be more and more in the future.You no longer can stop it to happen!that's europe!
(lili, 5 December 2010 15:56) "

More big talk but not even a pipsqueak of any action thus far! As they say, empty vessels make the most noise ....

You may see Kosovo as a country but the reality is that it is now under a new master the EU via Eulex. That is what supervised independence amounts to in reality. You are destined to be EU's lackey for as long as it pleases them. And Tirana can't help you guys. Unlike you doing a lot of boasting here about union with Pristina, I think Tirana has more common sense to realize what it will lose if it dares to offend its masters the Yankees and EU! And to paraphrase you, that's Europe!

"it’s a small country but it has all that is necessary to sustain its people – it has the holy trinity of a sound economy; resources, manufacturing and tourism. "
Yep, and it has a trade deficit of some 100 millions every year.

"Now tell me what is the EU and US doing for Kosovo’s 85% unemployment?"
(sj, 4 December 2010 22:00)
In a corrupt country ruled by political clans and their supporters, no international country will dare to invest. And if some 10% of all the donation money ends up in the pockets of these corrupt politicians and companies related to them, the donors will surely think about how to continue.

Why are you so sure Serbia even wants to be a member of the EU? Maybe Belgrade is playing Brussels like an old violin, taking everything they can, and giving little in return? What great concessions has Serbia given to the EU? Can you name them? Read the story from yesterday on B92 about what this insider had to say.
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2010&mm=12&dd=02&nav_id=71273

the original poster suggested, quite appropriately, that mass suicide would be better than a reenactment serbian terror.

roberto
frisco
(roberto, 4 December 2010 07:17)

As I understand the original poster: he suggested to blow up everything in the valleys to leave scorched earth to Serbs - and go "in the mountains". Usual tactics of mountaineers.

Kosovo consists of valleys - only in recent times inhabited by Albanians. On the perimeter of Kosovo there are mountains very difficult to conquer, like Prokletje for instance. It's where "mountain tribes" used to live. Romans and Byzantines had one or two legions in the valleys to keep the pesky mountain tribes at bay.

Not sure, the rest of the rant is worth to reply (sigh).

The Serbian diplomatic activity after the ICJ ruling largely contributed to preventing countries from recognizing Kosovo, said the daily. .............And people are excepting talks between Serbs and Albanians what e freaking JOKE !!!!! in my view should be only two things first were are the missing person's and paying for all the destruction done by Serbia if doesnt come to any agrement the are international court were can be solve this and serbia knows that very well when Kosovo will be a UN member it will file the lawsuit...

lowe, you read my mind. Let bombing commence! :-)

"And the winner is not serbia but the idea of an union albania kosova:yesterday only historical like balli or legaliteti dared to speak for that,today it is a federative movement in albania just as in kosova.
thank you guys for your contribution to this union:the more you push against independence the more the idea of this union is seen as THE solution!
Just go on!
(lili, 4 December 2010 08:20) "

Really? You sure talk big about Kosovo's impending incorporation into Albania. Well, talk is easy. I dare Albanians to actually try to bring about this union. Don't forget that both the Yankees and EU specifically forbade such a union under their precious Ahtisaari Plan. I just like to see how you guys dare go against the Western hands that feed you!

Serbia does not need the EU and the EU and the US have lost all power, it is in the hands of China and Russia now.
Then I wonder why there was ever talks between the EU, US and Serbia about the resolution presented to the UN. Seems like if this were 10% true then Serbia would have went ahead with their original resolution.
(pss, 4 December 2010 14:15)

The US and the west are like a group of drunks holding onto one another so that they don’t fall over. The US cannot act unilaterally – it had one shot at that and failed miserably to the point it now needs others to complete even the simplest of operations, look at Afghanistan. Regardless together they are still a powerful group.
I wondered and asked the same question – why not just put the resolution to the UN. It was only a day later that a friend of mine was talking about the same issue and said that the Serbs were advised to get concessions out of the US provided that the resolution was amended – if the US had reneged then the original or perhaps an even tougher resolution could be put forward.
The US had little choice but to agree because it could not guarantee a win at the UN and the humiliation of losing to a small and insignificant country would be too much. It was strategy and nothing more – I think it’s time that Serbs are seeking; stretch the negotiations out, but I’m not sure. Remember that negotiations were never on the table for discussion as far as the US was concerned.
Serbia does not need the EU; it’s a small country but it has all that is necessary to sustain its people – it has the holy trinity of a sound economy; resources, manufacturing and tourism. It’s true it will take time to rebuild their economy but it can be done; its not an impossible task. In fact it has free trade agreements with Russia, China and a few of the former Soviet countries, which is more than enough for it to have a vibrant economy.
Now tell me what is the EU and US doing for Kosovo’s 85% unemployment?

"dd,are you sure you met true albanians ,and not some of our minorities?
But you and iowe are free to believe that,just as you believed that kosovo will never be independent yesterday!
(lili, 5 December 2010 19:56) "

I won't speak for dd but when did I ever said I spoke to Albanians in Canada? Stop putting words into my mouth in your utter confusion!

You may see Kosovo as independent. I see it as being ruled by the EU via Eulex in reality. The EU can call the shots in Pristina for as long as the they like because no deadlines were specified. That's the reality of so called "supervised independence". Kosovo can be "supervised" forever at the EU's pleasure. I think it is you who needs a reality check!

Know something... Serbia will never rule Kosovo.

(Amer, 5 December 2010 06:12)

I understand that States pay school teachers and local police but I was only making as point without going into a lengthy description of how the system works. The essence of my statement was to show that the Federal government had reached it limits.

The car industry is very important because it employs many skilled, semi skilled and unskilled workers, plus it provides opportunity for apprentices of many trades and in times of war there is a facility that can be turned to making military equipment etc and it creates many secondly and tertiary jobs. The US government did not pour billions into the car industry just because it felt like it.

Yes the republicans are fighting to keep the tax cuts going for all and have vowed not to back down. My point is that the government has reached it limit. If massive spending cuts are not made in the next budget and continued for the next two decades there will be no need to wait 5 or ten years and see how it works out. There will be nothing there.

There is a minor effort being made on spending cuts coming from a bi-partizan committee but their recommendation were retiring at 68 and cuts ot social security; not one mention about military expenditure.


(icj1, 5 December 2010 03:30)

If I was Pristina and got that result from the ICJ I would go back and ask for official recognition, but I know the US would shoot anyone that tired that. The US does not want a million more states all with their hands out to be fed.

Kosovo has now reached the Twilight zone and can remain for the next two or three decades and see how you guys survive.

# If none of the above options are possible then we blow Kosova up but never give it to Serbia again
(UNE, 3 December 2010 12:02)

Whilst I support Serbia's rights in Kosovo completely, this is a very tempting offer you're making, UNE, and one that most of the civilised world would gladly accept..
(Dave, 3 December 2010 12:46)--

First of all, speaking of "journalism," what newspaper is this so-called news article referring to? some hypothetical newspaper, never mentioned? perhaps the usual cut and paste job fr serbiana.com?

at any rate, most of these "news" articles are nothing but 2-bit editorials. sure, they have a right to publish them; just label them properly. get it?

second point: this (see above) is at least the 2nd (hundredth?) comment fr the last few weeks suggesting that the "blowing up" of kosova would be a very good idea indeed. the original poster suggested, quite appropriately, that mass suicide would be better than a reenactment serbian terror. as if 1999 weren't a potent enough parting "gift." so, same ole, same ole, fr the serbian press, with their handfuls of hate over-brimming. that's considered good journalistic practices by their media, apparently.

at least such posters remind us of their ultimate goal, and why we must never let up on our freedom, not one inch, not for one second.

and may i remind -- as they write here -- may i remind that when such types pour out their nasty, racist vile, the other side responds by chortling, back patting, or utter and complete silence. and what of those loudly self-proclaimed moderates? like i said, utter and complete silence. their silence speaks volumes, now, exactly as it did in the 90s. apparently their "moderates" use a very different definition than the rest of the world.

i have to admit one thing: the singular and consistent contribution of their media, in english at least, is to broadcast to the rest of the (enlg speaking) world their true intent. and it ain't pretty.

and, as always, that tiny minority of serbian intellectual dissidents, who have LONG spoken out for freedom and independence and human rights for ALL, is utterly and completely marginalized, silenced in these pages.

some things never change.

of course, those dissidents, those honest human rights advocates have been speaking and working w/ their albanian counterparts long before '99 , and ever since. in fact, natasha, sonia and their colleagues have been instrumental in documenting the mass graves, the industrialized burning of bodies (see dec 2004, b-92, for natasa's ground-breaking article on the mackatica burnings.) they don't wait for anyone's permission -- they carry forward with their mission. i direct all people of conscience (who cares about your ethnicity or religion!) to the dissident sites. start with humanitarian law center and move on to the helsinki committee. much food for thought.

ciao!

roberto
frisco

I just don't understand how Kosovo albanians want to Force Albania to merge with them.

I live in Canada and met so many Albanians from Albania. They are very nice and moderate people. They are easygoing with nice sense of humor but very serious in one thing - They don't like Kosovo albanians. Whenever I met any of them - first they want to stress it loud - We are Albanians from Albania - we don't have anything with albanians from Kosovo.

So message is: They don't want to be connected in any sense - or mistaken to be albanians from Kosovo. Why - I want you to tell me (even not any surprise to me).

dd

“Well, since Serbia hates the Antisahari plan I think nobody would object if some part of that plan were to be ignored. That way the Yankees and EU would be supporting Serbia's arguments :)
(icj1, 5 December 2010 03:30)”

How Serbia feels is irrelevant to the point that I was making. Anyway, as I suggested to the Albanians, they should go ahead with the union if they really dare -- and I think they don’t despite the big talk by some on this thread.

"I just like to see how you guys dare go against the Western hands that feed you!"
Of course ,we do!
Just remember that the partition of ex yu was not at all accepted by the west at the beginning and kosovo independence not even discussed.years later,kosovo is independent and yu partitioned!
Don't worry,we enjoy having 2countries,and as one country or as 2 countries,we are already united and wil only be more and more in the future.You no longer can stop it to happen!that's europe!

dd,are you sure you met true albanians ,and not some of our minorities?
But you and iowe are free to believe that,just as you believed that kosovo will never be independent yesterday!

For the Albanian’s the independence of Kosovo i s a long term project. No one had assumed to be a quick think! Albanian’s have the time! 10,20,30 years?? Time is working for them!

Serbia does not need the EU because it has all that is required to have a normal state unlike the Albanians who think that the EU is a social security haven – once in there no one needs to work.
Have a good look around and open your eyes and you just might see that the EU is in deep trouble and does not need any more people with their hands out begging for money.
(sj, 4 December 2010 06:30)
Serbia does not need the EU and the EU and the US have lost all power, it is in the hands of China and Russia now.
Then I wonder why there was ever talks between the EU, US and Serbia about the resolution presented to the UN. Seems like if this were 10% true then Serbia would have went ahead with their original resolution.

bubble and seems so appropriate

There is two more things to be mentioned.
1) The number, quality and importance of states that recognized Kosovo is increasingly insignificant.
2) There is a rising number of important countries that have been reluctant before but after ICJ clearly declare to be against Kosovo independence. Countries like Indonesia, South-Africa, Argentina, Brazil Romania and others. I would say: Not only the recognitions are missing, The determined NONrecognitions are rising. The latter will be a weightily criterion at the negotiation table.
(Akim, 3 December 2010 12:19)

Yeah sure, what Argentina thinks of Kosovo will have a significant weight in the table... Serbia must hope that Argentina's weight is a little bit higher that Russia's which was much closer and much more determined but was simply ignored and could not do anything other than making declarations.

I think it has exactly been the ICJ (non-)ruling which only said 'the UDI is not against the international law' and which avoided to make any comment about the legality of the statehood of Kosovo.
(Top, 3 December 2010 14:10)

Just a correction... it was Serbia which avoided to ask about the legality of the statehood of Kosovo, not the ICJ that avoided it. But if Serbia has doubts, by all means, it should go ahead and ask for another opinion. Just make sure to find somebody that, at the minimum, has completed the elementary school and knows how to write and is able to formulate the correct question.


The ICJ ruling was politically motivated and influenced and did not set the precedent to change UN resolution 1244 which guarantees the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Serbia so in the preamble and reinforced throughout the document.
(Jugolsavija, 3 December 2010 18:40)

So Vuk must have been really stupid to have given the politically motivated ICJ the opportunity to destroy Serbia's most valuable weapon in the fight to keep Kosovo. As for 1244, Kosovo is the first to support it (even by including it in the declaration of independence and constitution) since Kosovo's UDI is in accordance with 1244.


Denis, Serbia doesn't want to rule ethnic Albanians (no thanks) or even have them under our system but we are not accepting independence either. If your world wasn't so black and white you might understand what I'm talking about.
(Zoran, 3 December 2010 22:23)

I can't understand... Is this the famous "more than autonomy but less than independence" that nobody could explain ? :)


Now as the ICJ has ruled in favor of the Albanians I suggest that you go back to that institution and request “as you have concluded that the act of declaration is not illegal, now please now declare Kosovo independent ”. The cost would be minimal to revisit the ICJ.
(sj, 4 December 2010 06:30)

Albanians don't have any doubt they are independent. If Serbia is so anxious to have additional ICJ opinions, by all means, Serbia can go ahead and pose further questions to the ICJ. Hopefully for Serbia it will get a better result than the first question it asked.


Really? You sure talk big about Kosovo's impending incorporation into Albania. Well, talk is easy. I dare Albanians to actually try to bring about this union. Don't forget that both the Yankees and EU specifically forbade such a union under their precious Ahtisaari Plan. I just like to see how you guys dare go against the Western hands that feed you!
(lowe, 4 December 2010 17:02)

Well, since Serbia hates the Antisahari plan I think nobody would object if some part of that plan were to be ignored. That way the Yankees and EU would be supporting Serbia's arguments :)

"The Detroit district alone has closed some 29 schools, and this is only one area in the US. In the last 6 months Detroit authorities asked the federal government twice to allow the National Guard to patrol some of the streets because what’s left of the local police cannot cope with the high level of crime and your free Kosovo is looking for loans or development grants to become a powerhouse like Taiwan.
Also, on 3 December 2010, it was announced by your media that Obama has frozen government workers’ salaries for two years because if these drastic actions are not taken then the Federal government would run out of money to pay teachers, police etc. And you’re looking for the US to organize loans – I think they would try and get some for themselves if they could. "

Detroit's been going downhill for decades - it followed the automotive industry down.

Obama's freezing government salaries had nothing to do with paying teachers and police - those are local responsibilities. Why he did it - another example of his brilliant negotiating strategy: give your opponent whatever he wants, then suggest sitting down to talk. As usual, the Republicans simply laughed at him. (Frankly, I would have, too, but then, I don't work for the government.) We are at the beginning of what is probably going to be a long, long national argument over what to cut from the budget and what taxes to raise. It would probably be best to ignore the whole thing and come back in 5 or 10 years and see how it all worked out. The Republicans holding out for tax cuts for billionaires suggests this won't be easy.

Don't worry,we enjoy having 2countries,and as one country or as 2 countries,we are already united and wil only be more and more in the future.You no longer can stop it to happen!that's europe!
(lili, 5 December 2010 15:56)

And Lili, who most likely lives in a comfortable home in the West with a steady Western job and a cute "ladies' car", belonging just to her said that about two places most likely at least 1000 miles from her western home. Or maybe 7000 miles. Correct?

"BTW, the Palestinians will declare unilateral independence sooner than later as there is no deal to be done. Add that to the 'unique' UDI of Kosovo, followed by S. Ossetia & Abkhazia. Who knows if it will be the start of a chain reaction, but it took quite some time for President Wilson's idea of the right to self-determination to catch on. If it does, we can all warm our hands on the fires that will burn around the world. Congrats.
(Aleks, 4 December 2010 00:13) "

Well, well, well. As of December 6th, Brazil has recognized the Palestinian territories, just followed now by Argentina and probably a few more LatAm states very soon*. That makes over 100 recognitions. Now which states that 'recognize' Kosovo do not recognize the Palestinian territories? Even with well over half UN members recognizing the Palestinian Territories, it is still in effective limbo. Again, this tells us that the UN is secondary to 'great' power diplomacy. Will it really make any difference if 'Losovo' gets more than half??? Nothing is certain.

*Via Reuters/Google:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jSJuERC8IRVch1Jq7NVRjLMWqMSQ?docId=6d0d0a3bd0234dc089643fca95c7f64c&hl=en&lr=all

If you Serbs are happy, that is good.

We are (even more) happy.

Do not worry, more recognations to come.

Cheers

Like I have always said. This is all planed. First we make sure that the Big Democracies are with us. If no UN seat in 10 years referendum and Kosovo will be attached to Albania. If none of the above options are possible then we blow Kosova up but never give it to Serbia again

Up to now 72 countries have recognized Kosovo's independence and keep in mind majority of them are most developed and democratic countries in the world.

no mater slow but secure

Whilst I support Serbia's rights in Kosovo completely, this is a very tempting offer you're making, UNE, and one that most of the civilised world would gladly accept..
(Dave, 3 December 2010 12:46)


Kosovo didn`t complain of having not enough recognitions. Why do you worry?

If Serbia had given up on its path in 1817, two years after it got its first tiny tiny positive results....It would have been much better for the whole region and peace in the world....one could say this for example.

KU,
Journalist,
New York

PRN, I forgot, when is Serbia supposed to recognise "Kosova"? I thought you predicted last September or was that the date of the third wave of mass recognitions?

Anyway, back to reality. Independence is a dead issue and irreversibly blocked. Time to negotiate a just and sustainable compromise. How much longer can the people living in "Kosova" tolerate remaining in isolation?

Looks like you serbs are more worried about our recognitions than we are.Count the recognitions, count the years, bash the countries that recognize. One thing that looks certain to happen is that Serbia will become an EU member only after Kosovo becomes an UN member. The longer it takes us to get there the more years Serbia will have to wait for the EU membership even in case it has reached all the economic standards. Keep in mind that during this time Albania also is trying to get to the EU.So in case Albania becomes an EU member before Serbia than things will get much more complicated for Serbia.

Maybe Kosovo would have had more recognitions by now if Hyseni before he resigned hadn't of sent letter to 15 countries (who were prepared to recognise Kosovo) telling them not to recognise Kosovo as it currently doesn't have a full Government. He did this as he didn't want the PDK doing well before the election which the LDK will be contesting.

ICJ has been asked by Serbs not Albanians! Albanians try to prevent it and Serbs celebrated the trial as victory, making 500 announcement a day about victory. And now, you the very same people celebrate that "only" 3 countries have recognized Kosovo.

Guys, you wanted to RESCIND recognitions with the ICJ. That definitely failed. Clear Albanian victory. Nothing more to say.

If none of the above options are possible then we blow Kosova up but never give it to Serbia again
(UNE, 3 December 2010 12:02)

Whilst I support Serbia's rights in Kosovo completely, this is a very tempting offer you're making, UNE, and one that most of the civilised world would gladly accept..

There is two more things to be mentioned.
1) The number, quality and importance of states that recognized Kosovo is increasingly insignificant.
2) There is a rising number of important countries that have been reluctant before but after ICJ clearly declare to be against Kosovo independence. Countries like Indonesia, South-Africa, Argentina, Brazil Romania and others. I would say: Not only the recognitions are missing, The determined NONrecognitions are rising. The latter will be a weightily criterion at the negotiation table.

Two US aid-dependent specks in the Pacific and a banana republic whose government was intalled by a US-backed coup. Not a very impressive tally is it? It's hard to see what can inspire the much vaunted flood of recognitions now. Time is on Serbia's side.

I read some of the comments here and they dont make sense. First was no Country will recognise.. Then Russia will invade... Than Montenegro and macedonia never will( we know how that went right) than it was that Malasyia never will( according to jeremic's press release)http://glassrbije.org/E/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3898

ETC ETC ETC ETC

Than it was there will be withdrawing recognitions from all these countries. But it never happend http://www.emportal.co.rs/en/news/serbia/83632.html

http://www.kosovocompromise.com/cms/item/topic/en.html?view=story&id=2017§ionId=1

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=104193 the above tells you abot the russian influence they cnat get Macedonia to recognise Akhbasia or to withdraw their recogniion of Kosovo, byt yet Kosova can get Kiribat. Palau and Hounduras( which by the way we have an embassy there now as of today)


.... Now it is they have comme to a stand still.

Get a grip it is either a memebr of UN in 20 years or absorbed in Albania in 10 years and than you know that our borders are guaranteed by NATO. So this is the only choice Serbia has

Not only have 3 states recognized the UDI but a couple of those states will be unddmdr water in our lifetime due to global warming

Clearly, the "wave of recognitions" story was a myth, meant to influence other countries to recognize Kosovo's UDI. It's funny how some people celebrate something they BELIEVE WILL HAPPEN instead of something that HAS ACTUALLY HAPPENED. That's not a good idea for it can only lead to disappointment.

The story of Kosovo's recognition battle is one of the things I'm looking forward to learning about from WikiLeaks. There have been mentions in various places of the tactics Russia (not Serbia) is using to prevent otherwise indifferent countries from recognizing it - for example, the guy who is flying around the world to lobby for Kosovo mentioned that Paraguay would be willing, but Russia threatened consequences for its trade. America may be willing to offer help (with international loans, development grants, etc.), but so far I haven't seen anything in the way of threats. And as Machiavelli wrote, it's better to be feared than loved. So this may take a while, guys. Not being in the UN may be embarrassing (Serbia is certainly pushing that line), but it doesn't mean not being able to develop - it hasn't prevented Taiwan from becoming an economic powerhouse.

# If none of the above options are possible then we blow Kosova up but never give it to Serbia again
(UNE, 3 December 2010 12:02)

Whilst I support Serbia's rights in Kosovo completely, this is a very tempting offer you're making, UNE, and one that most of the civilised world would gladly accept..
(Dave, 3 December 2010 12:46)--

First of all, speaking of "journalism," what newspaper is this so-called news article referring to? some hypothetical newspaper, never mentioned? perhaps the usual cut and paste job fr serbiana.com?

at any rate, most of these "news" articles are nothing but 2-bit editorials. sure, they have a right to publish them; just label them properly. get it?

second point: this (see above) is at least the 2nd (hundredth?) comment fr the last few weeks suggesting that the "blowing up" of kosova would be a very good idea indeed. the original poster suggested, quite appropriately, that mass suicide would be better than a reenactment serbian terror. as if 1999 weren't a potent enough parting "gift." so, same ole, same ole, fr the serbian press, with their handfuls of hate over-brimming. that's considered good journalistic practices by their media, apparently.

at least such posters remind us of their ultimate goal, and why we must never let up on our freedom, not one inch, not for one second.

and may i remind -- as they write here -- may i remind that when such types pour out their nasty, racist vile, the other side responds by chortling, back patting, or utter and complete silence. and what of those loudly self-proclaimed moderates? like i said, utter and complete silence. their silence speaks volumes, now, exactly as it did in the 90s. apparently their "moderates" use a very different definition than the rest of the world.

i have to admit one thing: the singular and consistent contribution of their media, in english at least, is to broadcast to the rest of the (enlg speaking) world their true intent. and it ain't pretty.

and, as always, that tiny minority of serbian intellectual dissidents, who have LONG spoken out for freedom and independence and human rights for ALL, is utterly and completely marginalized, silenced in these pages.

some things never change.

of course, those dissidents, those honest human rights advocates have been speaking and working w/ their albanian counterparts long before '99 , and ever since. in fact, natasha, sonia and their colleagues have been instrumental in documenting the mass graves, the industrialized burning of bodies (see dec 2004, b-92, for natasa's ground-breaking article on the mackatica burnings.) they don't wait for anyone's permission -- they carry forward with their mission. i direct all people of conscience (who cares about your ethnicity or religion!) to the dissident sites. start with humanitarian law center and move on to the helsinki committee. much food for thought.

ciao!

roberto
frisco

Anyway, it's not up to all those ethnic Albanians living comfortably in the west. As we can see from recent surveys, it's the people living in Kosovo who are increasingly disillusioned about "independence". It hasn't changed anything except isolated them even further. Real negotiations are the only way.
(Zoran, 3 December 2010 15:22)

Zoran, if K-Alb make the other choice, stay under Serbia, they will sooner or later DIE, at least this is their belief. There are very convincing historical precendets for this, that no one can deny. The conflict has been there since day one of Kosovo being part of Serbia.

You just can't sit there, and with a straight face promise Serbia will not make another attempt to exterminate K-Alb and there will be no more war. You have no basis to support this kind of claims.

It is only logical. Please follow my reasoning here for a second.

If K-Alb decide to live under Serbia, they will become a major force in the state of Serbia, and in maybe 100 yrs they most likely (together with other minorities), will become a majority and take over Serbia, by a mere democratic plurality. Serbia will never allow that, it can't and normally it shouldn't. So it will find a way to start a conflict with goal to expell K-Alb from there and maintain Serbian majority ....thus again there will be a bitter war, this time essentially for the very existence of Serbia.

So let's not lie to each other. K-alb will never accept to live under Serbia no matter what they have to go through, now and Serbia in the long run has no interest to keep K-Alb within the country only to face a bitter problem latter.

Up to now 72 countries have recognized Kosovo's independence and keep in mind majority of them are most developed and democratic countries in the world.
(ivan, 3 December 2010 13:44)
--
Yawn.... you mean the most indebted countries in the world right?

Anyway, this just goes to show how much influence the west has lost. If this was done in the 90s, Kosovo would probably be independent by now but with the rise of China and a resurging Russia, independence is a dead in the water matter.

Maybe things would be different if the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade wasn't bombed or if Clark didn't order NATO forces to attack Russians at Pristina airport but we know it did happen and China plus Russia will never, and I mean never reward NATO for what it did.

Anyway, it's not up to all those ethnic Albanians living comfortably in the west. As we can see from recent surveys, it's the people living in Kosovo who are increasingly disillusioned about "independence". It hasn't changed anything except isolated them even further. Real negotiations are the only way.

Why "Kosovo recognitions stall despite ICJ" ?

I think it has exactly been the ICJ (non-)ruling which only said 'the UDI is not against the international law' and which avoided to make any comment about the legality of the statehood of Kosovo. That's why no further countries (except some 'lobbied' island) were encouraged to recognize Kosovo.

This article does not mention that a lot of these recognitions were forced, or bought, by US State Dept. and Albanian lobby money. Tiny Pacific nations like Tuvalu and Kiribati are a classic example. But that is fine, as we see from the WikiLeaks, DC pushed their "Kosova Project" on everyone that would listen. In any case, little Serbia has stood up to a world giant (USA), and refused to roll over in the West's occupation of its land. They (Serbia) could not do anything militarily, but Belgrade, Vuk and co., have certainly put a big finger in America's eye diplomatically. I am proud of our nation and people. I do not know how this will all end, but I am glad that DC is being exposed the self-serving bully that they have become. I. as an American, am ashamed that people like the Clinton's, Holbrookes, Frieds, Albrights, represented me, and did things in the name of the American people. CCCC.

Denis, Serbia doesn't want to rule ethnic Albanians (no thanks) or even have them under our system but we are not accepting independence either. If your world wasn't so black and white you might understand what I'm talking about.

I have never read anywhere that Albania wants to absorb Kosovo. Why would they - to inherit more poverty, more unemployed people, more crime, more corruption - not to mention the ruling clan families in Albania do not want any Kosovo clan families on their turf. rebellious Serbs in N. Kosovo, and so forth. There is no benefit for Albania in this Illyrian union Albanians on this site talk about, that I can see. Can a pro-Albanian here please provide a link that states that Tirana would want to absorb Kosovo, I would enjoy reading that.

"Kosovo didn`t complain of having not enough recognitions. Why do you worry?
(Baresi, 3 December 2010 13:32)"

Maybe it dare not complain in case its new masters in the EU are offended?

Actually I don't think Dave was worrying in the least. More like rejoicing. :)

The international community is clearly telling the Kalbs to sit down and negotiate to prevent further problems down the road. Makes complete sense to everyone except the Kalbs ( and i include the Americans)

We have what we wanted,we do not care about Kosova becoming a country,all we wanted is to be free and serbia out of Kosova.Soner or later we will Kosova will be Albania.Thats what 95%of Kosova people want.

I think it has exactly been the ICJ (non-)ruling which only said 'the UDI is not against the international law' and which avoided to make any comment about the legality of the statehood of Kosovo.
(Top, 3 December 2010 14:10)

Just a correction... it was Serbia which avoided to ask about the legality of the statehood of Kosovo, not the ICJ that avoided it. But if Serbia has doubts, by all means, it should go ahead and ask for another opinion. Just make sure to find somebody that, at the minimum, has completed the elementary school and knows how to write and is able to formulate the correct question.


The ICJ ruling was politically motivated and influenced and did not set the precedent to change UN resolution 1244 which guarantees the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Serbia so in the preamble and reinforced throughout the document.
(Jugolsavija, 3 December 2010 18:40)

So Vuk must have been really stupid to have given the politically motivated ICJ the opportunity to destroy Serbia's most valuable weapon in the fight to keep Kosovo. As for 1244, Kosovo is the first to support it (even by including it in the declaration of independence and constitution) since Kosovo's UDI is in accordance with 1244.


Denis, Serbia doesn't want to rule ethnic Albanians (no thanks) or even have them under our system but we are not accepting independence either. If your world wasn't so black and white you might understand what I'm talking about.
(Zoran, 3 December 2010 22:23)

I can't understand... Is this the famous "more than autonomy but less than independence" that nobody could explain ? :)


Now as the ICJ has ruled in favor of the Albanians I suggest that you go back to that institution and request “as you have concluded that the act of declaration is not illegal, now please now declare Kosovo independent ”. The cost would be minimal to revisit the ICJ.
(sj, 4 December 2010 06:30)

Albanians don't have any doubt they are independent. If Serbia is so anxious to have additional ICJ opinions, by all means, Serbia can go ahead and pose further questions to the ICJ. Hopefully for Serbia it will get a better result than the first question it asked.


Really? You sure talk big about Kosovo's impending incorporation into Albania. Well, talk is easy. I dare Albanians to actually try to bring about this union. Don't forget that both the Yankees and EU specifically forbade such a union under their precious Ahtisaari Plan. I just like to see how you guys dare go against the Western hands that feed you!
(lowe, 4 December 2010 17:02)

Well, since Serbia hates the Antisahari plan I think nobody would object if some part of that plan were to be ignored. That way the Yankees and EU would be supporting Serbia's arguments :)

RE; ICJ ruling backfires on the Albanians

Until the thick headed Albanian government recognizes that they must negotiate with Serbia and make concessions, than Kosovo will continue to be a pariah state, without full international recognition indefinitely.

The time is now as Tadic is becoming very unpopular in Serbia and the next leader may not be in the same position to negotiate.

Of course Serbia is responsible for the full diplomatic victory and Russia was fully behind her. Skender Hysani (sp) has hurt the Albanians more than he has helped; Jeremic is constantly flying around the world, making appearances, etc.

Skender Hysani can't even arrange to get a guest seat at the UN Assembly let along negotiate recognitions.

The ICJ ruling was politically motivated and influenced and did not set the precedent to change UN resolution 1244 which guarantees the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Serbia so in the preamble and reinforced throughout the document.

KU, if you are a journalist, learn how to write, both grammatically and in content. What in the world are you trying to say? Anyway, I do enjoy reading comments from the Albanians when they are on the defensive - they are so cute.

Why are you so sure Serbia even wants to be a member of the EU? Maybe Belgrade is playing Brussels like an old violin, taking everything they can, and giving little in return? What great concessions has Serbia given to the EU? Can you name them? Read the story from yesterday on B92 about what this insider had to say.
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2010&mm=12&dd=02&nav_id=71273

Serbophilia notwithstanding, I have to admit I am rather surpised at the lack of recognitions following the ICJ verdict. I was at least expecting about a dozen or so recognitions from countries that were probably waiting for some sort of verdict so they could make their decision "in compliance" with international legitimacy. But having only three recognitions - and recognitions from countries that barely matter - is more than embarrasing for the US in general and the Pristina government in particular (especially in light of repeated statements by Hash and Hysterical that recognitions would come at least by the end of September). After the ICJ ruling, which seems now to be irrelevant, the heavy nay-sayers have remained: no movement from the 5 in the EU, no change in Russia or China, no movement by India, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Indonesia, or South Africa.

Whether the lack of recognitions has anything to do with countries ultimately deciding its not worth their interest, or the diplomatic acumen of Vuk, the process is clearly frozen and no forward movement can result without a definitive agreement with Belgrade.

Imagine how few countries would have recognized Kosovo if there was no threat and pressure coming from America and their lap dogs. Besideds Kosovo has absolutely nothing to offer any country so why recognize? Most of those countries that recognized the illegal UDI did so to be able to return k-albanian criminals without having to hear albanians complain of how they can't be sent back because of "evil Serbs". Great job Serbia in keeping your territorial integrity intact.

it's the people living in Kosovo who are increasingly disillusioned about "independence"

And the winner is not serbia but the idea of an union albania kosova:yesterday only historical like balli or legaliteti dared to speak for that,today it is a federative movement in albania just as in kosova.
thank you guys for your contribution to this union:the more you push against independence the more the idea of this union is seen as THE solution!
Just go on!

For the Albanian’s the independence of Kosovo i s a long term project. No one had assumed to be a quick think! Albanian’s have the time! 10,20,30 years?? Time is working for them!

Serbia does not need the EU because it has all that is required to have a normal state unlike the Albanians who think that the EU is a social security haven – once in there no one needs to work.
Have a good look around and open your eyes and you just might see that the EU is in deep trouble and does not need any more people with their hands out begging for money.
(sj, 4 December 2010 06:30)
Serbia does not need the EU and the EU and the US have lost all power, it is in the hands of China and Russia now.
Then I wonder why there was ever talks between the EU, US and Serbia about the resolution presented to the UN. Seems like if this were 10% true then Serbia would have went ahead with their original resolution.

Serbia does not need the EU and the EU and the US have lost all power, it is in the hands of China and Russia now.
Then I wonder why there was ever talks between the EU, US and Serbia about the resolution presented to the UN. Seems like if this were 10% true then Serbia would have went ahead with their original resolution.
(pss, 4 December 2010 14:15)

The US and the west are like a group of drunks holding onto one another so that they don’t fall over. The US cannot act unilaterally – it had one shot at that and failed miserably to the point it now needs others to complete even the simplest of operations, look at Afghanistan. Regardless together they are still a powerful group.
I wondered and asked the same question – why not just put the resolution to the UN. It was only a day later that a friend of mine was talking about the same issue and said that the Serbs were advised to get concessions out of the US provided that the resolution was amended – if the US had reneged then the original or perhaps an even tougher resolution could be put forward.
The US had little choice but to agree because it could not guarantee a win at the UN and the humiliation of losing to a small and insignificant country would be too much. It was strategy and nothing more – I think it’s time that Serbs are seeking; stretch the negotiations out, but I’m not sure. Remember that negotiations were never on the table for discussion as far as the US was concerned.
Serbia does not need the EU; it’s a small country but it has all that is necessary to sustain its people – it has the holy trinity of a sound economy; resources, manufacturing and tourism. It’s true it will take time to rebuild their economy but it can be done; its not an impossible task. In fact it has free trade agreements with Russia, China and a few of the former Soviet countries, which is more than enough for it to have a vibrant economy.
Now tell me what is the EU and US doing for Kosovo’s 85% unemployment?

There is two more things to be mentioned.
1) The number, quality and importance of states that recognized Kosovo is increasingly insignificant.
2) There is a rising number of important countries that have been reluctant before but after ICJ clearly declare to be against Kosovo independence. Countries like Indonesia, South-Africa, Argentina, Brazil Romania and others. I would say: Not only the recognitions are missing, The determined NONrecognitions are rising. The latter will be a weightily criterion at the negotiation table.
(Akim, 3 December 2010 12:19)

Yeah sure, what Argentina thinks of Kosovo will have a significant weight in the table... Serbia must hope that Argentina's weight is a little bit higher that Russia's which was much closer and much more determined but was simply ignored and could not do anything other than making declarations.

lowe, you read my mind. Let bombing commence! :-)

“…… America may be willing to offer help (with international loans, development grants, etc.)…..”
“….it hasn't prevented Taiwan from becoming an economic powerhouse.
(Amer, 3 December 2010 17:27)

The Detroit district alone has closed some 29 schools, and this is only one area in the US. In the last 6 months Detroit authorities asked the federal government twice to allow the National Guard to patrol some of the streets because what’s left of the local police cannot cope with the high level of crime and your free Kosovo is looking for loans or development grants to become a powerhouse like Taiwan.
Also, on 3 December 2010, it was announced by your media that Obama has frozen government workers’ salaries for two years because if these drastic actions are not taken then the Federal government would run out of money to pay teachers, police etc. And you’re looking for the US to organize loans – I think they would try and get some for themselves if they could.
In the last 11 years the only thing the west has opened in Kosovo is several cans of Coke. It has not spent a cent on their allies, but it did kill about 10 000 during the bombing and you guys cling on this US as if it’s God.
As China is the only country on the IMF board that is solvent and in fact if it did not pour several billion dollars into the IMF otherwise it would have closed its doors, I suggest that you go and ask them for a loan. Currently it has about 3 trillion in reserves.

Guys, you wanted to RESCIND recognitions with the ICJ. That definitely failed. Clear Albanian victory. Nothing more to say.
(JohnC., 3 December 2010 18:09)

Now as the ICJ has ruled in favor of the Albanians I suggest that you go back to that institution and request “as you have concluded that the act of declaration is not illegal, now please now declare Kosovo independent ”. The cost would be minimal to revisit the ICJ.
Unfortunately, the US would shoot anyone who would even dare think of going back to the ICJ ; some victory eh?
It’s now status quo and the quagmire continues unabated.
KU,
Journalist,
New York
(KU, 3 December 2010 15:22)
Does Elvis Presley work with you?

“….The longer it takes us to get there the more years Serbia will have to wait for the EU membership even in case it has reached all the economic standards. Keep in mind that during this time Albania also is trying to get to the EU. So in case Albania becomes an EU member before Serbia than things will get much more complicated for Serbia.
(Mark, 3 December 2010 19:15)

Serbia does not need the EU because it has all that is required to have a normal state unlike the Albanians who think that the EU is a social security haven – once in there no one needs to work.
Have a good look around and open your eyes and you just might see that the EU is in deep trouble and does not need any more people with their hands out begging for money.

"I just like to see how you guys dare go against the Western hands that feed you!"
Of course ,we do!
Just remember that the partition of ex yu was not at all accepted by the west at the beginning and kosovo independence not even discussed.years later,kosovo is independent and yu partitioned!
Don't worry,we enjoy having 2countries,and as one country or as 2 countries,we are already united and wil only be more and more in the future.You no longer can stop it to happen!that's europe!

I just don't understand how Kosovo albanians want to Force Albania to merge with them.

I live in Canada and met so many Albanians from Albania. They are very nice and moderate people. They are easygoing with nice sense of humor but very serious in one thing - They don't like Kosovo albanians. Whenever I met any of them - first they want to stress it loud - We are Albanians from Albania - we don't have anything with albanians from Kosovo.

So message is: They don't want to be connected in any sense - or mistaken to be albanians from Kosovo. Why - I want you to tell me (even not any surprise to me).

dd

Know something... Serbia will never rule Kosovo.

If Serbia had given up on its path in 1817, two years after it got its first tiny tiny positive results....It would have been much better for the whole region and peace in the world....one could say this for example.

KU,
Journalist,
New York
(KU, 3 December 2010 15:22)

And if the Iraqi and Afghan fighters all stood still or ran up them hills--we would've won both wars and I wouldn't be so dang broke and be sitting here drinking cheap Mexican rot-gut mescal and playing "IF" games with total strangers. Anyway if


If KAs chose someone other than Hazel to lobby for their recognitions and if they did away with the first song--maybe you would've had a few more by now.

[link]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWCAqejqzFE[/link]


Johnny "Longhorn",
Cowboy/breeder of Texas longhorns,
Texas

Albanians don't know how to negotiate or refuse to do so (and certainly not without american/british/whomever 'advisors' to dot the 'i''s and cross the 't's.

I've just read that Pristina is demanding abolition of visas by Brussels before it will even start talks with Belgrade.

Biting the hand that feeds? With wisdom like that, nothing is possible.

But maybe they are confused about Brussels as many people still are (and think it is the Emerald City from the Wizard of Oz which fixed everything for you (as your own corrupt governments can't)). The abolition of visas squeaks come from that chamber of second rate european politicians (who cannot cut it at home), a grouping known as the European Parliament.

The Council of Ministers have final and the Commission is there to make sure standards are not only legally adopted but effectively implemented. In the latter case, the disastrous acceptance of Bulgaria and Romania into the EU who had not (and still do not) implemented EU law has tied the Commission's hands on turning a blind eye. This makes it much tougher for the remaining balkan states who wish to be handed their Bruxelles (fools) gold.

BTW, the Palestinians will declare unilateral independence sooner than later as there is no deal to be done. Add that to the 'unique' UDI of Kosovo, followed by S. Ossetia & Abkhazia. Who knows if it will be the start of a chain reaction, but it took quite some time for President Wilson's idea of the right to self-determination to catch on. If it does, we can all warm our hands on the fires that will burn around the world. Congrats.

"And the winner is not serbia but the idea of an union albania kosova:yesterday only historical like balli or legaliteti dared to speak for that,today it is a federative movement in albania just as in kosova.
thank you guys for your contribution to this union:the more you push against independence the more the idea of this union is seen as THE solution!
Just go on!
(lili, 4 December 2010 08:20) "

Really? You sure talk big about Kosovo's impending incorporation into Albania. Well, talk is easy. I dare Albanians to actually try to bring about this union. Don't forget that both the Yankees and EU specifically forbade such a union under their precious Ahtisaari Plan. I just like to see how you guys dare go against the Western hands that feed you!

“Well, since Serbia hates the Antisahari plan I think nobody would object if some part of that plan were to be ignored. That way the Yankees and EU would be supporting Serbia's arguments :)
(icj1, 5 December 2010 03:30)”

How Serbia feels is irrelevant to the point that I was making. Anyway, as I suggested to the Albanians, they should go ahead with the union if they really dare -- and I think they don’t despite the big talk by some on this thread.

dd,are you sure you met true albanians ,and not some of our minorities?
But you and iowe are free to believe that,just as you believed that kosovo will never be independent yesterday!

the original poster suggested, quite appropriately, that mass suicide would be better than a reenactment serbian terror.

roberto
frisco
(roberto, 4 December 2010 07:17)

As I understand the original poster: he suggested to blow up everything in the valleys to leave scorched earth to Serbs - and go "in the mountains". Usual tactics of mountaineers.

Kosovo consists of valleys - only in recent times inhabited by Albanians. On the perimeter of Kosovo there are mountains very difficult to conquer, like Prokletje for instance. It's where "mountain tribes" used to live. Romans and Byzantines had one or two legions in the valleys to keep the pesky mountain tribes at bay.

Not sure, the rest of the rant is worth to reply (sigh).

The Serbian diplomatic activity after the ICJ ruling largely contributed to preventing countries from recognizing Kosovo, said the daily. .............And people are excepting talks between Serbs and Albanians what e freaking JOKE !!!!! in my view should be only two things first were are the missing person's and paying for all the destruction done by Serbia if doesnt come to any agrement the are international court were can be solve this and serbia knows that very well when Kosovo will be a UN member it will file the lawsuit...

"it’s a small country but it has all that is necessary to sustain its people – it has the holy trinity of a sound economy; resources, manufacturing and tourism. "
Yep, and it has a trade deficit of some 100 millions every year.

"Now tell me what is the EU and US doing for Kosovo’s 85% unemployment?"
(sj, 4 December 2010 22:00)
In a corrupt country ruled by political clans and their supporters, no international country will dare to invest. And if some 10% of all the donation money ends up in the pockets of these corrupt politicians and companies related to them, the donors will surely think about how to continue.

"dd,are you sure you met true albanians ,and not some of our minorities?
But you and iowe are free to believe that,just as you believed that kosovo will never be independent yesterday!
(lili, 5 December 2010 19:56) "

I won't speak for dd but when did I ever said I spoke to Albanians in Canada? Stop putting words into my mouth in your utter confusion!

You may see Kosovo as independent. I see it as being ruled by the EU via Eulex in reality. The EU can call the shots in Pristina for as long as the they like because no deadlines were specified. That's the reality of so called "supervised independence". Kosovo can be "supervised" forever at the EU's pleasure. I think it is you who needs a reality check!

(Amer, 5 December 2010 06:12)

I understand that States pay school teachers and local police but I was only making as point without going into a lengthy description of how the system works. The essence of my statement was to show that the Federal government had reached it limits.

The car industry is very important because it employs many skilled, semi skilled and unskilled workers, plus it provides opportunity for apprentices of many trades and in times of war there is a facility that can be turned to making military equipment etc and it creates many secondly and tertiary jobs. The US government did not pour billions into the car industry just because it felt like it.

Yes the republicans are fighting to keep the tax cuts going for all and have vowed not to back down. My point is that the government has reached it limit. If massive spending cuts are not made in the next budget and continued for the next two decades there will be no need to wait 5 or ten years and see how it works out. There will be nothing there.

There is a minor effort being made on spending cuts coming from a bi-partizan committee but their recommendation were retiring at 68 and cuts ot social security; not one mention about military expenditure.


(icj1, 5 December 2010 03:30)

If I was Pristina and got that result from the ICJ I would go back and ask for official recognition, but I know the US would shoot anyone that tired that. The US does not want a million more states all with their hands out to be fed.

Kosovo has now reached the Twilight zone and can remain for the next two or three decades and see how you guys survive.

bubble and seems so appropriate

"The Detroit district alone has closed some 29 schools, and this is only one area in the US. In the last 6 months Detroit authorities asked the federal government twice to allow the National Guard to patrol some of the streets because what’s left of the local police cannot cope with the high level of crime and your free Kosovo is looking for loans or development grants to become a powerhouse like Taiwan.
Also, on 3 December 2010, it was announced by your media that Obama has frozen government workers’ salaries for two years because if these drastic actions are not taken then the Federal government would run out of money to pay teachers, police etc. And you’re looking for the US to organize loans – I think they would try and get some for themselves if they could. "

Detroit's been going downhill for decades - it followed the automotive industry down.

Obama's freezing government salaries had nothing to do with paying teachers and police - those are local responsibilities. Why he did it - another example of his brilliant negotiating strategy: give your opponent whatever he wants, then suggest sitting down to talk. As usual, the Republicans simply laughed at him. (Frankly, I would have, too, but then, I don't work for the government.) We are at the beginning of what is probably going to be a long, long national argument over what to cut from the budget and what taxes to raise. It would probably be best to ignore the whole thing and come back in 5 or 10 years and see how it all worked out. The Republicans holding out for tax cuts for billionaires suggests this won't be easy.

"Of course ,we do!
Just remember that the partition of ex yu was not at all accepted by the west at the beginning and kosovo independence not even discussed.years later,kosovo is independent and yu partitioned!
Don't worry,we enjoy having 2countries,and as one country or as 2 countries,we are already united and wil only be more and more in the future.You no longer can stop it to happen!that's europe!
(lili, 5 December 2010 15:56) "

More big talk but not even a pipsqueak of any action thus far! As they say, empty vessels make the most noise ....

You may see Kosovo as a country but the reality is that it is now under a new master the EU via Eulex. That is what supervised independence amounts to in reality. You are destined to be EU's lackey for as long as it pleases them. And Tirana can't help you guys. Unlike you doing a lot of boasting here about union with Pristina, I think Tirana has more common sense to realize what it will lose if it dares to offend its masters the Yankees and EU! And to paraphrase you, that's Europe!

Don't worry,we enjoy having 2countries,and as one country or as 2 countries,we are already united and wil only be more and more in the future.You no longer can stop it to happen!that's europe!
(lili, 5 December 2010 15:56)

And Lili, who most likely lives in a comfortable home in the West with a steady Western job and a cute "ladies' car", belonging just to her said that about two places most likely at least 1000 miles from her western home. Or maybe 7000 miles. Correct?

"BTW, the Palestinians will declare unilateral independence sooner than later as there is no deal to be done. Add that to the 'unique' UDI of Kosovo, followed by S. Ossetia & Abkhazia. Who knows if it will be the start of a chain reaction, but it took quite some time for President Wilson's idea of the right to self-determination to catch on. If it does, we can all warm our hands on the fires that will burn around the world. Congrats.
(Aleks, 4 December 2010 00:13) "

Well, well, well. As of December 6th, Brazil has recognized the Palestinian territories, just followed now by Argentina and probably a few more LatAm states very soon*. That makes over 100 recognitions. Now which states that 'recognize' Kosovo do not recognize the Palestinian territories? Even with well over half UN members recognizing the Palestinian Territories, it is still in effective limbo. Again, this tells us that the UN is secondary to 'great' power diplomacy. Will it really make any difference if 'Losovo' gets more than half??? Nothing is certain.

*Via Reuters/Google:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jSJuERC8IRVch1Jq7NVRjLMWqMSQ?docId=6d0d0a3bd0234dc089643fca95c7f64c&hl=en&lr=all