Another Pacific island recognizes Kosovo

Yeah well,
Some time I wonder why these islands are UN members at all?

But that is not for K-Albanians to decide and if 12k people deserve the right and can build a nation, who is to deny the same right to 2m Albanians?

PS: 72 is bigger than 71.

, which has been rejected by Serbia.


Who cares about Serbia.
Serbia is one country. If someone would like to compare 1 country against 72 countries, so be it.

Another one.

Thank you Tuvalu

..This is all they have left.

"Tuvalu's population of some 12,000 people makes it one of the least populous countries in the world."

Congratulations! And I already feared Pacolli's businesses are not going well so he cannot affort to "lobby" new recognitions at the moment! Next goal could be the recognition by the famous island country "Niue" (Population about 1,400) ;-)

From Wikipedia: "Tuvalu has almost no natural resources, and its main form of income consists of foreign aid."

It's logical that they would be fellow travellers with Europe's youngest country (sic).

This is embarrassing for everyone.

What Jeremic said 2 days ago was that the majority of countries don't recognize Kosovo.He is right.But slowly the numbers are moving in Kosovo's direction.It will take some time but we will get to the 2/3 of UNGA votes. So for as long as a country that has a UN vote recognizes us doesn't mater if Serbs talk trash about them.

The last 4 states to recognize the UDI are islands whose populations will need to emigrate to the West after gobal warming raises water levels and submerges them in our lifetime, so they and their recognitions will eventually disappear, a case of failed states recognizing each other bc their time is up for diffesent reasons anyway

Thank you Tuvalu.

@Top: you must not forget, that most EU countries have already recognized Kosova, and we are thankful when a "small" country recognizes us as well..

the process continues and that matters
cheers..

All I have to say is while recognition are rising the non-recognition are falling. I guess that's the way a balance scale works.

Yes, stupid to compare 1 with 72. But your example is stupid, too. You must compare the 72 countries which recognized Kosovo with the 120 countries who did NOT recognize Kosovo to see the complete picture.
(Top, 19 November 2010 21:50)
Most of those countries have not made a formal announcement of to recognize or not recognize. There is a saying about not counting your chickens before they hatch.

Interesting how states are legitimate states when they dont recognize Kosovo, ie the 120 who have not recognized the independence but when they recognize kosovo serbs call these states unimportant, failed, corrupt. Good news is North Korea still recognizes Kosovo as part of Serbia

"Who cares about Serbia. Serbia is one country. If someone would like to compare 1 country against 72 countries, so be it."
(Agim Kelmendi, 19 November 2010 17:23)

Yes, stupid to compare 1 with 72. But your example is stupid, too. You must compare the 72 countries which recognized Kosovo with the 120 countries who did NOT recognize Kosovo to see the complete picture.

IT is not Brazil but it is one extra number. So thank you for recognizing the newest country in the world. But were are the withdraws of recognitions. Has there been any. Most of you predicted that after ICJ it would be case over for Kosova

Tuvalu will solve your problems.

Naah..

Yes, but how many more is there? You have just gone as low as you possibly can. A tiny spec on the map and I can't see how much smaller it get get. Looks like you have reached the end of the road.
(Peggy, 20 November 2010 01:11)

According to you we reached that end two years ago but later you were proved wrong. I just wonder how many times will you have to be proven wrong in order to admit you were wrong.

Another Pacific island recognizes Kosovo.
--
Thank you Tuvalu, my next Holiday is in Tuvaluuu.

Well, those 120 states never said never. Also i doubt that there are more than 20 countries which alredy made it public that they will not reckognise kosovo. Even Israel said that would made a move according to their national interests...and probably are going to reckognise Kosovo soon.

Losers recognize losers, so what? This recognition was bought for less than $1000? I bet this island can't afford to support a permanent delegate at the UN. I know another island much closer to kosovo that said they won't recognize kosovo even if Serbia does.

All I have to say is while recognition are rising the non-recognition are falling. I guess that's the way a balance scale works.
(Vini)
-
Looks like someone just graduated from grade 2.

Thank you Tuvalu.

@Top: you must not forget, that most EU countries have already recognized Kosova, and we are thankful when a "small" country recognizes us as well..

the process continues and that matters
cheers..
(gimi, 19 November 2010 20:16)

Thanks, gimi, well put. and here i almost missed the story. we're up to #72!

just a couple of years ago, we had no idea, and were mocked and belittled to beat the band. given that context, and the unending campaign against independence recognition, 72 is incredibly impressive.

as usual, at these times, i wish to thank all of our frnds and allies, who cares about their ethnicity, color or religion! or whether their country consists of 5,000 citizens, or 50,000,000.

Our struggle for independence has been successful. as always, i send my very best to our Kosovar colleagues (and allies), who have hung in for the long haul.

there's plenty of work left to do (to say the least) but we are absolutely up to the challenge.

cheers.

roberto
frisco

"If Serbia was concerned with Tuvalu or any of these small pacific island nation then I say to them give it up boys. ]

(sj, 20 November 2010 00:39) "

Tuvalu, Kiribati, etc. each have one vote in the General Assembly, just like the US, China, and everybody else. Openly dissing a small state will lose you many votes from all the other small states. And it's not as though GA resolutions are meaningless - Russia fought hard (and lost) against Georgia's resolution this year on the right of return of its citizens to Abkhazia and So. Ossetia. GA resolutions are nonbinding, but it's embarrassing to lose them.

You must compare the 72 countries which recognized Kosovo with the 120 countries who did NOT recognize Kosovo to see the complete picture.
(Top, 19 November 2010 21:50)

Top
I just did that comparison and here is the clear picture. About this time two years ago that number which now is 120 was over 150, a year ago was over 130 and next year in the best case possible for Serbia will be under 110. It is going down. The number 72 two years ago was under 50, last year was under 60 and next year the best possible case for Serbia will be over 82.
The clear picture is 72 tends to go up and 120 tends to go down. 25% of the recognitions came as result of lobism done by Pacolli and to claim that Pacolli has as much money as to buy recognitions from 22 countries is unbelivable.

trussdam
I try to put it simply, so that people like you could understand the concept. I see that for you is impossible to absorb even this simple concept, without resolving to personal attack.
Now, without trying to insult your intelligence, let me put it simply this way: they (the states) are not only recognizing Kosovo, but also derecognizing Serbia. I hope this is clear enough for you and your friends

No one worries that the mockery heaped on every country that recognizes Kosovo might not someday come back to bite Serbia's diplomats as they roam the halls of the UN, looking for the votes to support some future resolution?

It's a joke that these Pacific Island "nations" are in the UN anyway. They are just there to be "running dogs of U.S. imperialism" as Chairman Mao would say.

I mean, Russia has plenty of sparsely populated islands in the Arctic.

Novaya Zemlya and Severnaya Zemlya for UN membership!!! (it makes as much sense as admitting Kosovo to the UN)

The only comment that seems to be coming from the anti UDI side here is derision and insult to whoever recognises Kosovo. As far as I recall , these small nations have as much right as Serbia to pursue their national interest - via aid or alliance , treaty , trade or whatever. Serbia does EXACTLY the same thing.ALL independant and proud nations do!
If this isnt the pot calling the kettle black.....

"It will take some time but we will get to the 2/3 of UNGA votes. So for as long as a country that has a UN vote recognizes us doesn't mater if Serbs talk trash about them."
(Mark, 19 November 2010 21:34)

2/3 of the 192 countries are 128 countries. With 72 countries already recognized Kosovo, and an estimated speed of maybe 5-10 recognitions a year, it well take another 5-10 years. But it's unlikely that it will go on like that: Countries that wanted to recognize Kosovo should have already done it. The rate will surely fall.

I'm glad these insignificant steps help pacify our ethnic Albanian citizens and makes their independence supporters happy. It will not, however, make Kosovo independent but if it gives them temporary joy then great. China and Russia couldn't care less and Serbia will never recognise "Kosova".

The scales are already set and countries representing roughly 5 billion people support Serbia while the remaining 1 billion support "Kosova". You can buy as many recognitions as tiny, weak or insignificant countries remain but the 5 billion to one ratio is not going to change and so neither are the opinions of those countries that count.

Now I am curious, do these countries ask for payment up front? It's quite sad that instead of focusing on the well being of citizens in KiM, some people focus on meaningless recognitions.

At the end of the day, it really is about quality and not quantity simply because each UNSC member has a veto. Remember, having all the weaklings on your side doesn't make you strong.

The only hope we have at the moment is negotiations so lets stay focused on the real issues. Cheers my friends.

"Most of you predicted that after ICJ it would be case over for Kosova" (UNE)

-- And most of you, predicted a wave of anywhere between 30 and 50 recognitions. Since the ICJ, we've received 3 with Honduras being the big one next to two micro Pacific islands. At least we should have seen 10. Pardon some of us if this latest diplomatic victory for the world's newest state leaves us somewhat underwhelmed.

"Most of those countries have not made a formal announcement of to recognize or not recognize. There is a saying about not counting your chickens before they hatch."
(pss, 19 November 2010 22:46)

Right! But then, these chickens must be of a strange kind if they need more than 2 1/2 years to hatch! Not even elephant babies need that long!

Tuvalu is sinking! Perhaps they are looking for a place to relocate and thought Kosovo would be a good one.

What I find more interesting beyond the whole idea of getting recognized from a country with a smaller population than northern Kosovska Mitrovica, is this seeming understanding among some that this gives Kosovo "one more vote in the UN". A bit difficult to understand when Kosovo is not in the UN, and has little likelihood of gaining UN membership anytime soon.

Most of those countries have not made a formal announcement of to recognize or not recognize. There is a saying about not counting your chickens before they hatch.
(pss, 19 November 2010 22:46)
====================

Isn't that exactly what you are doing by saying what you just did?
Read what you wrote again and see how stupid it sounds.
OK, in case you just don't get it, by implying that the 120 will recognise in time you are the one counting your chickens before they are hatched.
Understand?

So for as long as a country that has a UN vote recognizes us doesn't mater if Serbs talk trash about them.
(Mark, 19 November 2010 21:34)
=====================

Yes, but how many more is there? You have just gone as low as you possibly can. A tiny spec on the map and I can't see how much smaller it get get. Looks like you have reached the end of the road.

Right! But then, these chickens must be of a strange kind if they need more than 2 1/2 years to hatch! Not even elephant babies need that long!
(Top, 20 November 2010 10:18)
How many countries have yet to recognize Montenegro as an independent country, even though it broke away in 2006 with a grudging acceptance of Serbia. Somewhere around 60?
Many countries are a bit more involved with issues close to home and neither Serbia nor Kosovo is of such importance to rush a decision.
Your statement can be turned around, if they have not come out in support of Serbia, why?? I mean after all to you and your cohorts it is a moral imperitive.
Silence on the issue is not an endorsement for either side.

"A bit difficult to understand when Kosovo is not in the UN, and has little likelihood of gaining UN membership anytime soon.
(Mike, 20 November 2010 16:49) "

It's really not all that difficult, Mike: at some point there will be a vote by the General Assembly on admitting Kosovo to the UN, at which every vote counts. South Korea had to go back multiple times before it finally made it, since China was opposed, so it's not as though there's no precedent. On the other hand, if Serbia wants to join the EU at some point, it's going to have to call off Russia and China, and then everything will be easy. It may take a while, even a long while, but think how much geography we're all learning in the process. (BTW, Kiribati and Tuvalu are the former Gilbert and Ellis Islands. But then, nobody collects postage stamps anymore, so probably even that won't ring many bells.)

"How many countries have yet to recognize Montenegro as an independent country, even though it broke away in 2006 with a grudging acceptance of Serbia. Somewhere around 60? "
(pss, 20 November 2010 14:07)
Eh? Mo tenegro? Sorry? Maybe you could check wikipedia. In the list of the 192 officially recognized countries (UN-member states) I can find Montenegro - but not the independent dream state of Kosovo...

Tuvalu is sinking!
(Joe A, 20 November 2010 19:46)

"Kosova" is sinking too.

No one worries that the mockery heaped on every country that recognizes Kosovo might not someday come back to bite Serbia's diplomats as they roam the halls of the UN, looking for the votes to support some future resolution?
(Amer, 19 November 2010 19:19)

If Serbia was concerned with Tuvalu or any of these small pacific island nation then I say to them give it up boys. Tuvalu is an impoverished nation that lives off hand outs from Australia. They have cryonic levels of unemployment their people have to go to Australia to pick fruit for 6 months of the year in order just to survive.
When you rely on recognition from these places then you are scraping the bottom of the barrel. Regardless, Kosovo will not get a UN seat as Russia and China will veto any such proposal so status quo.

"Your statement can be turned around, if they have not come out in support of Serbia, why?? I mean after all to you and your cohorts it is a moral imperitive. Silence on the issue is not an endorsement for either side."
(pss, 20 November 2010 14:07)

If I don't like chocolate cookies, I don't have to tell everyone I don't like them (though some people act like that). I simply don't buy them and be happy. Get the point?

In the list of the 192 officially recognized countries (UN-member states) I can find Montenegro - but not the independent dream state of Kosovo...
(Top, 20 November 2010 17:11)

Of course Kosovo is not a UN member. How can you find it in the list of UN members ?!!!!!

Of course, that does not have anything to do whether Kosovo is independent or recognized since that's not the UN's business.

If the ICJ ruling would have been: "Kosovo has a right to create an own state, after all the things that happened to the ethnic Albanian minority within Serbia", there would have been more recognitions coming.
(Top, 21 November 2010 11:26)

Apologies for my ignorance, but I thought that Serbia asked ICJ whether the UDI is legal, not whether Albanians had a right to UDI.

So how could the ICJ's ruling be what you say since nobody asked that question ?!!!

If you want to educate yourself about the right of seccession under international law, the landmark opinion about that is the one delivered by the Supreme Court of Canada in Re Secession of Quebec

http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/1998/1998canlii793/1998canlii793.pdf

You must compare the 72 countries which recognized Kosovo with the 120 countries who did NOT recognize Kosovo to see the complete picture.
(Top, 19 November 2010 21:50)

Where did you find that 120 countries have not recognized Kosovo. There are 72 which have stated that they recognize Kosovo, a few which have stated that they don't recognize Kosovo and the rest (100 or so) which have not stated anything.

You have, I assume, some kind of proof?
(Amer)
-
proof that Tuvala only exists thanks to financial aids?

Sure..."Tuvalu has almost no natural resources, and its main form of income consists of foreign aid. Virtually the only jobs in the islands that pay a steady wage or salary are with the government."---

And the source; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuvalu

As you can tell I am sure, this was fairly easy for me to find. perhaps if you bothered to educate yourself, I wouldn't have to.

If I don't like chocolate cookies, I don't have to tell everyone I don't like them (though some people act like that). I simply don't buy them and be happy. Get the point?
(Top, 20 November 2010 17:25)
NO, it makes no sense, in relation to the subject.

But if you go to the store and you do not bring home cookies, can I assume you don't like cookies, had cookies yesterday and wasn't in the mood, wanted cookies but did not have enough money for them, or the store was out of cookies. No one knows.
If a country has not expressed an official opinion on the Kosovo-Serbia issue can someone assume they support Kosovo or Serbia, No. Get the point?

-- And most of you, predicted a wave of anywhere between 30 and 50 recognitions. Since the ICJ, we've received 3 with Honduras being the big one next to two micro Pacific islands. At least we should have seen 10. Pardon some of us if this latest diplomatic victory for the world's newest state leaves us somewhat underwhelmed.
(Mike, 20 November 2010 19:12)

Mike you were right.
HOWEVER

but did you see any withdraws of recognitions like you guys predicted? Well did

"(sj, 21 November 2010 08:03) "

You have, I assume, some kind of proof?

You have, I assume, some kind of proof?
(Amer, 21 November 2010 16:28)

As I work in Asia, I have the opportunity to visit these pacific island nations when on annual leave. They tend to have the cheapest holidays available and the water/beaches are something out of this world, but the only “industry” is tourism and even that is not sufficient to maintain the country. They also get aid from Australia so between what they earn and overseas help they manage to survive. Another source of income is selling their fishing rights to the Chinese or Japanese. In fact, Fiji is controlled by the Chinese.

Don’t get me wrong Tuvalu is a place most people dream of retiring to – beautiful beaches; blue crystal clear waters, great fishing etc.

The Australian government has only recently commenced a program where they allow people from these Pacific islands to work for seasonal work for 6 months of the year at picking fruit/vegetables etc.

If you want to educate yourself about the right of seccession under international law, the landmark opinion about that is the one delivered by the Supreme Court of Canada in Re Secession of Quebec

[link]
(icj1)
-
So now the supreme court of Cananda should decide the fate of the Balkans?

41 comments so far - I wonder if the good people of Tuvalu who follow international interest in their country (English is the second language there) are impressed at the interest this latest action by their permanent delegation to the UN has aroused.

Just in case: thank you, Tuvalu, from an interested observer of the Kosovo scene living in another former British colony.

Silence on the issue is not an endorsement for either side."
(pss, 20 November 2010 14:07)
=================

Sure, silence will get you the votes you need.
So if I don't vote for you, I am in fact voting for you. Strange logic you have there.

You need them to publicly come out and endorse you, not just sit silently on the sidelines.
Now when that happens, you can get optimistic.

If I don't like chocolate cookies, I don't have to tell everyone I don't like them (though some people act like that). I simply don't buy them and be happy. Get the point?
(Top, 20 November 2010 17:25)

Yes, but nobody can tell whether you like or don't like chocolate cookies unless they are able to read your mind. Get the point ?

A state fighting back Palestinian separatists is highly unlikely to recognise a country formed out of Albanian separatists from Serbia; unfortunately for you, you don't have our people's support. Sorry.

I hope that this silences all of the critics of Kosovo's independence once and for all!

Of course this recognition means nothing. However, all those that are talking about the "wave of recognitions" not happening are ignoring the game that Serbia is playing. There were many recognitions after the declaration of independence. However, Serbia then took the issue before the ICJ, largely to buy time. Immediately, the flow of recognitions stopped, as coutries waited for the opinion of the ICJ. Once the ICJ returned the favorable opinion, Serbia, fearing more recognitions, immediately began petitioning for direct talks with Kosovo. Now the world is waiting to see what will happen with the talks (nothing is my guess). What will Serbia's next move be? The world will not wait forever. The best Serbia can hope for is to delay recognitions.

As for UN membership, it is becoming less and less significant, as the UN continues to show that it is inept and powerless. The US might be fading from it's position as the only superpower in the world, and the EU might be facing huge economic struggles, but the UN is already dead and buried.

Sure, silence will get you the votes you need.
So if I don't vote for you, I am in fact voting for you. Strange logic you have there.

You need them to publicly come out and endorse you, not just sit silently on the sidelines.
Now when that happens, you can get optimistic.
(Peggy, 21 November 2010 00:02)
There is no time limit for these countries to act. No one is claiming these undecided countries support the independence of Kosovo, but only that you cannot count them as supporting Serbia's position.
To date you have 72 absolute recognitions and about 40 stated oppositions. Neither side cannot claim the official support of the other approximate 80 countries even though many have announced their intentions.
Kosovo cannot count the nations who have pledged to recognize, but it is definitely ludicrous to count them as supporting Serbia's position due to the fact they have not made it official.

Finally !!! Another recognition. It took some time, but finally the goons in Pristina got off their arses and did some work...lol

Now... can someone point to me on a map where is Tuvalulalala..., or whatever they call over there.

If I were an Albano from Kosovo, I would be embarrased of this, then again shamlessness is known.

According to you we reached that end two years ago but later you were proved wrong. I just wonder how many times will you have to be proven wrong in order to admit you were wrong.
(Simpatiku, 20 November 2010 18:42)
=====================

First of all, two years ago I never said that you reached the end of the road.
Let's say I did just so we don't end up in you said, I did not say etc., you actually did reach end of the road even then. What do you have today?
You certainly don't have a country and definitely not enough recognitions for any purpose.
Tell me, what future do you see? How many more recognitions and how do you see yourselves getting a seat in the UN or entering EU?

So you see, it's the end of the road.

(Amer, 20 November 2010 17:19)

These are all pauper states, that’s if you can call them states, because these little islands all rely on aid. If you give them a couple of bucks they will vote whichever way you want – the Minister for finance goes fishing in the afternoon to catch dinner otherwise no food on the table.
Since it recognizes Kosovo, Tuvalu will now have something to eat for the next 3 months. That’s all it means nothing else.

"but did you see any withdraws of recognitions like you guys predicted? Well did"
(UNE, 21 November 2010 04:23)

These predictions were all based on the assumption that the ICJ ruling would give an opinion about Kosovo.
If it would have been like: "No, the international laws don't support the creation of unilateral break-off countries", maybe there would have been some withdrawels. If the ICJ ruling would have been: "Kosovo has a right to create an own state, after all the things that happened to the ethnic Albanian minority within Serbia", there would have been more recognitions coming. After the non-ruling "The UDI was not against the international law, and we don't give our opinion about the statehood of Kosovo" not much happened, except one real and two "lobbied" recognitions. Not very surprising.

-- And most of you, predicted a wave of anywhere between 30 and 50 recognitions. Since the ICJ, we've received 3 with Honduras being the big one next to two micro Pacific islands. At least we should have seen 10. Pardon some of us if this latest diplomatic victory for the world's newest state leaves us somewhat underwhelmed.
(Mike, 20 November 2010 19:12)
So underwhelmed you had to make a comment. Sounds like it must have hit a nerve to me otherwise you would have gone on about your day without the need to try and belittle it.

So underwhelmed you had to make a comment. Sounds like it must have hit a nerve to me otherwise you would have gone on about your day without the need to try and belittle it.
(doodah, 22 November 2010 00:18)
=======================

Can't you tell he was sticking your nose in it?
Of course one can't pass up a chance to comment on this. I know, you would've wanted us to stay away from it but c'mon it was just tooooo tempting.

ha ha ha...

I couldn´t but laugh, when I read this headline...

and I could imagine how our dear k-albanian friends would desperately start again to sell us this as a big success in their greater albanian project... =)

Tuvalu...

yeah! =)

my dear friends, Serbia is the name, that you should bear in mind! Serbia will be the name that will reach you again. just a question of time. don´t worry about that.

So now the supreme court of Cananda should decide the fate of the Balkans?
(trudsaam, 22 November 2010 00:23)

Of course not. I said "if you want to educate yourself" because you inquired about the "right".

Of course for Kosovo the "right" is irrelevant as it is Canadian's Supreme Court Opinion.

..This is all they have left.

The last 4 states to recognize the UDI are islands whose populations will need to emigrate to the West after gobal warming raises water levels and submerges them in our lifetime, so they and their recognitions will eventually disappear, a case of failed states recognizing each other bc their time is up for diffesent reasons anyway

It's a joke that these Pacific Island "nations" are in the UN anyway. They are just there to be "running dogs of U.S. imperialism" as Chairman Mao would say.

I mean, Russia has plenty of sparsely populated islands in the Arctic.

Novaya Zemlya and Severnaya Zemlya for UN membership!!! (it makes as much sense as admitting Kosovo to the UN)

This is embarrassing for everyone.

, which has been rejected by Serbia.


Who cares about Serbia.
Serbia is one country. If someone would like to compare 1 country against 72 countries, so be it.

From Wikipedia: "Tuvalu has almost no natural resources, and its main form of income consists of foreign aid."

It's logical that they would be fellow travellers with Europe's youngest country (sic).

"Tuvalu's population of some 12,000 people makes it one of the least populous countries in the world."

Congratulations! And I already feared Pacolli's businesses are not going well so he cannot affort to "lobby" new recognitions at the moment! Next goal could be the recognition by the famous island country "Niue" (Population about 1,400) ;-)

Losers recognize losers, so what? This recognition was bought for less than $1000? I bet this island can't afford to support a permanent delegate at the UN. I know another island much closer to kosovo that said they won't recognize kosovo even if Serbia does.

Another one.

Thank you Tuvalu

"Who cares about Serbia. Serbia is one country. If someone would like to compare 1 country against 72 countries, so be it."
(Agim Kelmendi, 19 November 2010 17:23)

Yes, stupid to compare 1 with 72. But your example is stupid, too. You must compare the 72 countries which recognized Kosovo with the 120 countries who did NOT recognize Kosovo to see the complete picture.

Yeah well,
Some time I wonder why these islands are UN members at all?

But that is not for K-Albanians to decide and if 12k people deserve the right and can build a nation, who is to deny the same right to 2m Albanians?

PS: 72 is bigger than 71.

I'm glad these insignificant steps help pacify our ethnic Albanian citizens and makes their independence supporters happy. It will not, however, make Kosovo independent but if it gives them temporary joy then great. China and Russia couldn't care less and Serbia will never recognise "Kosova".

The scales are already set and countries representing roughly 5 billion people support Serbia while the remaining 1 billion support "Kosova". You can buy as many recognitions as tiny, weak or insignificant countries remain but the 5 billion to one ratio is not going to change and so neither are the opinions of those countries that count.

Now I am curious, do these countries ask for payment up front? It's quite sad that instead of focusing on the well being of citizens in KiM, some people focus on meaningless recognitions.

At the end of the day, it really is about quality and not quantity simply because each UNSC member has a veto. Remember, having all the weaklings on your side doesn't make you strong.

The only hope we have at the moment is negotiations so lets stay focused on the real issues. Cheers my friends.

All I have to say is while recognition are rising the non-recognition are falling. I guess that's the way a balance scale works.
(Vini)
-
Looks like someone just graduated from grade 2.

Most of those countries have not made a formal announcement of to recognize or not recognize. There is a saying about not counting your chickens before they hatch.
(pss, 19 November 2010 22:46)
====================

Isn't that exactly what you are doing by saying what you just did?
Read what you wrote again and see how stupid it sounds.
OK, in case you just don't get it, by implying that the 120 will recognise in time you are the one counting your chickens before they are hatched.
Understand?

So for as long as a country that has a UN vote recognizes us doesn't mater if Serbs talk trash about them.
(Mark, 19 November 2010 21:34)
=====================

Yes, but how many more is there? You have just gone as low as you possibly can. A tiny spec on the map and I can't see how much smaller it get get. Looks like you have reached the end of the road.

Thank you Tuvalu.

@Top: you must not forget, that most EU countries have already recognized Kosova, and we are thankful when a "small" country recognizes us as well..

the process continues and that matters
cheers..
(gimi, 19 November 2010 20:16)

Thanks, gimi, well put. and here i almost missed the story. we're up to #72!

just a couple of years ago, we had no idea, and were mocked and belittled to beat the band. given that context, and the unending campaign against independence recognition, 72 is incredibly impressive.

as usual, at these times, i wish to thank all of our frnds and allies, who cares about their ethnicity, color or religion! or whether their country consists of 5,000 citizens, or 50,000,000.

Our struggle for independence has been successful. as always, i send my very best to our Kosovar colleagues (and allies), who have hung in for the long haul.

there's plenty of work left to do (to say the least) but we are absolutely up to the challenge.

cheers.

roberto
frisco

"It will take some time but we will get to the 2/3 of UNGA votes. So for as long as a country that has a UN vote recognizes us doesn't mater if Serbs talk trash about them."
(Mark, 19 November 2010 21:34)

2/3 of the 192 countries are 128 countries. With 72 countries already recognized Kosovo, and an estimated speed of maybe 5-10 recognitions a year, it well take another 5-10 years. But it's unlikely that it will go on like that: Countries that wanted to recognize Kosovo should have already done it. The rate will surely fall.

Tuvalu is sinking! Perhaps they are looking for a place to relocate and thought Kosovo would be a good one.

Interesting how states are legitimate states when they dont recognize Kosovo, ie the 120 who have not recognized the independence but when they recognize kosovo serbs call these states unimportant, failed, corrupt. Good news is North Korea still recognizes Kosovo as part of Serbia

"Most of those countries have not made a formal announcement of to recognize or not recognize. There is a saying about not counting your chickens before they hatch."
(pss, 19 November 2010 22:46)

Right! But then, these chickens must be of a strange kind if they need more than 2 1/2 years to hatch! Not even elephant babies need that long!

Thank you Tuvalu.

@Top: you must not forget, that most EU countries have already recognized Kosova, and we are thankful when a "small" country recognizes us as well..

the process continues and that matters
cheers..

What Jeremic said 2 days ago was that the majority of countries don't recognize Kosovo.He is right.But slowly the numbers are moving in Kosovo's direction.It will take some time but we will get to the 2/3 of UNGA votes. So for as long as a country that has a UN vote recognizes us doesn't mater if Serbs talk trash about them.

No one worries that the mockery heaped on every country that recognizes Kosovo might not someday come back to bite Serbia's diplomats as they roam the halls of the UN, looking for the votes to support some future resolution?
(Amer, 19 November 2010 19:19)

If Serbia was concerned with Tuvalu or any of these small pacific island nation then I say to them give it up boys. Tuvalu is an impoverished nation that lives off hand outs from Australia. They have cryonic levels of unemployment their people have to go to Australia to pick fruit for 6 months of the year in order just to survive.
When you rely on recognition from these places then you are scraping the bottom of the barrel. Regardless, Kosovo will not get a UN seat as Russia and China will veto any such proposal so status quo.

All I have to say is while recognition are rising the non-recognition are falling. I guess that's the way a balance scale works.

"How many countries have yet to recognize Montenegro as an independent country, even though it broke away in 2006 with a grudging acceptance of Serbia. Somewhere around 60? "
(pss, 20 November 2010 14:07)
Eh? Mo tenegro? Sorry? Maybe you could check wikipedia. In the list of the 192 officially recognized countries (UN-member states) I can find Montenegro - but not the independent dream state of Kosovo...

"Most of you predicted that after ICJ it would be case over for Kosova" (UNE)

-- And most of you, predicted a wave of anywhere between 30 and 50 recognitions. Since the ICJ, we've received 3 with Honduras being the big one next to two micro Pacific islands. At least we should have seen 10. Pardon some of us if this latest diplomatic victory for the world's newest state leaves us somewhat underwhelmed.

No one worries that the mockery heaped on every country that recognizes Kosovo might not someday come back to bite Serbia's diplomats as they roam the halls of the UN, looking for the votes to support some future resolution?

What I find more interesting beyond the whole idea of getting recognized from a country with a smaller population than northern Kosovska Mitrovica, is this seeming understanding among some that this gives Kosovo "one more vote in the UN". A bit difficult to understand when Kosovo is not in the UN, and has little likelihood of gaining UN membership anytime soon.

Tuvalu will solve your problems.

Naah..

Tuvalu is sinking!
(Joe A, 20 November 2010 19:46)

"Kosova" is sinking too.

Yes, stupid to compare 1 with 72. But your example is stupid, too. You must compare the 72 countries which recognized Kosovo with the 120 countries who did NOT recognize Kosovo to see the complete picture.
(Top, 19 November 2010 21:50)
Most of those countries have not made a formal announcement of to recognize or not recognize. There is a saying about not counting your chickens before they hatch.

IT is not Brazil but it is one extra number. So thank you for recognizing the newest country in the world. But were are the withdraws of recognitions. Has there been any. Most of you predicted that after ICJ it would be case over for Kosova

Well, those 120 states never said never. Also i doubt that there are more than 20 countries which alredy made it public that they will not reckognise kosovo. Even Israel said that would made a move according to their national interests...and probably are going to reckognise Kosovo soon.

"Your statement can be turned around, if they have not come out in support of Serbia, why?? I mean after all to you and your cohorts it is a moral imperitive. Silence on the issue is not an endorsement for either side."
(pss, 20 November 2010 14:07)

If I don't like chocolate cookies, I don't have to tell everyone I don't like them (though some people act like that). I simply don't buy them and be happy. Get the point?

The only comment that seems to be coming from the anti UDI side here is derision and insult to whoever recognises Kosovo. As far as I recall , these small nations have as much right as Serbia to pursue their national interest - via aid or alliance , treaty , trade or whatever. Serbia does EXACTLY the same thing.ALL independant and proud nations do!
If this isnt the pot calling the kettle black.....

Yes, but how many more is there? You have just gone as low as you possibly can. A tiny spec on the map and I can't see how much smaller it get get. Looks like you have reached the end of the road.
(Peggy, 20 November 2010 01:11)

According to you we reached that end two years ago but later you were proved wrong. I just wonder how many times will you have to be proven wrong in order to admit you were wrong.

trussdam
I try to put it simply, so that people like you could understand the concept. I see that for you is impossible to absorb even this simple concept, without resolving to personal attack.
Now, without trying to insult your intelligence, let me put it simply this way: they (the states) are not only recognizing Kosovo, but also derecognizing Serbia. I hope this is clear enough for you and your friends

Another Pacific island recognizes Kosovo.
--
Thank you Tuvalu, my next Holiday is in Tuvaluuu.

Right! But then, these chickens must be of a strange kind if they need more than 2 1/2 years to hatch! Not even elephant babies need that long!
(Top, 20 November 2010 10:18)
How many countries have yet to recognize Montenegro as an independent country, even though it broke away in 2006 with a grudging acceptance of Serbia. Somewhere around 60?
Many countries are a bit more involved with issues close to home and neither Serbia nor Kosovo is of such importance to rush a decision.
Your statement can be turned around, if they have not come out in support of Serbia, why?? I mean after all to you and your cohorts it is a moral imperitive.
Silence on the issue is not an endorsement for either side.

"If Serbia was concerned with Tuvalu or any of these small pacific island nation then I say to them give it up boys. ]

(sj, 20 November 2010 00:39) "

Tuvalu, Kiribati, etc. each have one vote in the General Assembly, just like the US, China, and everybody else. Openly dissing a small state will lose you many votes from all the other small states. And it's not as though GA resolutions are meaningless - Russia fought hard (and lost) against Georgia's resolution this year on the right of return of its citizens to Abkhazia and So. Ossetia. GA resolutions are nonbinding, but it's embarrassing to lose them.

"A bit difficult to understand when Kosovo is not in the UN, and has little likelihood of gaining UN membership anytime soon.
(Mike, 20 November 2010 16:49) "

It's really not all that difficult, Mike: at some point there will be a vote by the General Assembly on admitting Kosovo to the UN, at which every vote counts. South Korea had to go back multiple times before it finally made it, since China was opposed, so it's not as though there's no precedent. On the other hand, if Serbia wants to join the EU at some point, it's going to have to call off Russia and China, and then everything will be easy. It may take a while, even a long while, but think how much geography we're all learning in the process. (BTW, Kiribati and Tuvalu are the former Gilbert and Ellis Islands. But then, nobody collects postage stamps anymore, so probably even that won't ring many bells.)

You must compare the 72 countries which recognized Kosovo with the 120 countries who did NOT recognize Kosovo to see the complete picture.
(Top, 19 November 2010 21:50)

Top
I just did that comparison and here is the clear picture. About this time two years ago that number which now is 120 was over 150, a year ago was over 130 and next year in the best case possible for Serbia will be under 110. It is going down. The number 72 two years ago was under 50, last year was under 60 and next year the best possible case for Serbia will be over 82.
The clear picture is 72 tends to go up and 120 tends to go down. 25% of the recognitions came as result of lobism done by Pacolli and to claim that Pacolli has as much money as to buy recognitions from 22 countries is unbelivable.

(Amer, 20 November 2010 17:19)

These are all pauper states, that’s if you can call them states, because these little islands all rely on aid. If you give them a couple of bucks they will vote whichever way you want – the Minister for finance goes fishing in the afternoon to catch dinner otherwise no food on the table.
Since it recognizes Kosovo, Tuvalu will now have something to eat for the next 3 months. That’s all it means nothing else.

41 comments so far - I wonder if the good people of Tuvalu who follow international interest in their country (English is the second language there) are impressed at the interest this latest action by their permanent delegation to the UN has aroused.

Just in case: thank you, Tuvalu, from an interested observer of the Kosovo scene living in another former British colony.

Silence on the issue is not an endorsement for either side."
(pss, 20 November 2010 14:07)
=================

Sure, silence will get you the votes you need.
So if I don't vote for you, I am in fact voting for you. Strange logic you have there.

You need them to publicly come out and endorse you, not just sit silently on the sidelines.
Now when that happens, you can get optimistic.

I hope that this silences all of the critics of Kosovo's independence once and for all!

Of course this recognition means nothing. However, all those that are talking about the "wave of recognitions" not happening are ignoring the game that Serbia is playing. There were many recognitions after the declaration of independence. However, Serbia then took the issue before the ICJ, largely to buy time. Immediately, the flow of recognitions stopped, as coutries waited for the opinion of the ICJ. Once the ICJ returned the favorable opinion, Serbia, fearing more recognitions, immediately began petitioning for direct talks with Kosovo. Now the world is waiting to see what will happen with the talks (nothing is my guess). What will Serbia's next move be? The world will not wait forever. The best Serbia can hope for is to delay recognitions.

As for UN membership, it is becoming less and less significant, as the UN continues to show that it is inept and powerless. The US might be fading from it's position as the only superpower in the world, and the EU might be facing huge economic struggles, but the UN is already dead and buried.

"but did you see any withdraws of recognitions like you guys predicted? Well did"
(UNE, 21 November 2010 04:23)

These predictions were all based on the assumption that the ICJ ruling would give an opinion about Kosovo.
If it would have been like: "No, the international laws don't support the creation of unilateral break-off countries", maybe there would have been some withdrawels. If the ICJ ruling would have been: "Kosovo has a right to create an own state, after all the things that happened to the ethnic Albanian minority within Serbia", there would have been more recognitions coming. After the non-ruling "The UDI was not against the international law, and we don't give our opinion about the statehood of Kosovo" not much happened, except one real and two "lobbied" recognitions. Not very surprising.

Finally !!! Another recognition. It took some time, but finally the goons in Pristina got off their arses and did some work...lol

Now... can someone point to me on a map where is Tuvalulalala..., or whatever they call over there.

If I were an Albano from Kosovo, I would be embarrased of this, then again shamlessness is known.

According to you we reached that end two years ago but later you were proved wrong. I just wonder how many times will you have to be proven wrong in order to admit you were wrong.
(Simpatiku, 20 November 2010 18:42)
=====================

First of all, two years ago I never said that you reached the end of the road.
Let's say I did just so we don't end up in you said, I did not say etc., you actually did reach end of the road even then. What do you have today?
You certainly don't have a country and definitely not enough recognitions for any purpose.
Tell me, what future do you see? How many more recognitions and how do you see yourselves getting a seat in the UN or entering EU?

So you see, it's the end of the road.

Sure, silence will get you the votes you need.
So if I don't vote for you, I am in fact voting for you. Strange logic you have there.

You need them to publicly come out and endorse you, not just sit silently on the sidelines.
Now when that happens, you can get optimistic.
(Peggy, 21 November 2010 00:02)
There is no time limit for these countries to act. No one is claiming these undecided countries support the independence of Kosovo, but only that you cannot count them as supporting Serbia's position.
To date you have 72 absolute recognitions and about 40 stated oppositions. Neither side cannot claim the official support of the other approximate 80 countries even though many have announced their intentions.
Kosovo cannot count the nations who have pledged to recognize, but it is definitely ludicrous to count them as supporting Serbia's position due to the fact they have not made it official.

In the list of the 192 officially recognized countries (UN-member states) I can find Montenegro - but not the independent dream state of Kosovo...
(Top, 20 November 2010 17:11)

Of course Kosovo is not a UN member. How can you find it in the list of UN members ?!!!!!

Of course, that does not have anything to do whether Kosovo is independent or recognized since that's not the UN's business.

If I don't like chocolate cookies, I don't have to tell everyone I don't like them (though some people act like that). I simply don't buy them and be happy. Get the point?
(Top, 20 November 2010 17:25)

Yes, but nobody can tell whether you like or don't like chocolate cookies unless they are able to read your mind. Get the point ?

-- And most of you, predicted a wave of anywhere between 30 and 50 recognitions. Since the ICJ, we've received 3 with Honduras being the big one next to two micro Pacific islands. At least we should have seen 10. Pardon some of us if this latest diplomatic victory for the world's newest state leaves us somewhat underwhelmed.
(Mike, 20 November 2010 19:12)

Mike you were right.
HOWEVER

but did you see any withdraws of recognitions like you guys predicted? Well did

"(sj, 21 November 2010 08:03) "

You have, I assume, some kind of proof?

If the ICJ ruling would have been: "Kosovo has a right to create an own state, after all the things that happened to the ethnic Albanian minority within Serbia", there would have been more recognitions coming.
(Top, 21 November 2010 11:26)

Apologies for my ignorance, but I thought that Serbia asked ICJ whether the UDI is legal, not whether Albanians had a right to UDI.

So how could the ICJ's ruling be what you say since nobody asked that question ?!!!

If you want to educate yourself about the right of seccession under international law, the landmark opinion about that is the one delivered by the Supreme Court of Canada in Re Secession of Quebec

http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/1998/1998canlii793/1998canlii793.pdf

You have, I assume, some kind of proof?
(Amer, 21 November 2010 16:28)

As I work in Asia, I have the opportunity to visit these pacific island nations when on annual leave. They tend to have the cheapest holidays available and the water/beaches are something out of this world, but the only “industry” is tourism and even that is not sufficient to maintain the country. They also get aid from Australia so between what they earn and overseas help they manage to survive. Another source of income is selling their fishing rights to the Chinese or Japanese. In fact, Fiji is controlled by the Chinese.

Don’t get me wrong Tuvalu is a place most people dream of retiring to – beautiful beaches; blue crystal clear waters, great fishing etc.

The Australian government has only recently commenced a program where they allow people from these Pacific islands to work for seasonal work for 6 months of the year at picking fruit/vegetables etc.

-- And most of you, predicted a wave of anywhere between 30 and 50 recognitions. Since the ICJ, we've received 3 with Honduras being the big one next to two micro Pacific islands. At least we should have seen 10. Pardon some of us if this latest diplomatic victory for the world's newest state leaves us somewhat underwhelmed.
(Mike, 20 November 2010 19:12)
So underwhelmed you had to make a comment. Sounds like it must have hit a nerve to me otherwise you would have gone on about your day without the need to try and belittle it.

So underwhelmed you had to make a comment. Sounds like it must have hit a nerve to me otherwise you would have gone on about your day without the need to try and belittle it.
(doodah, 22 November 2010 00:18)
=======================

Can't you tell he was sticking your nose in it?
Of course one can't pass up a chance to comment on this. I know, you would've wanted us to stay away from it but c'mon it was just tooooo tempting.

A state fighting back Palestinian separatists is highly unlikely to recognise a country formed out of Albanian separatists from Serbia; unfortunately for you, you don't have our people's support. Sorry.

If you want to educate yourself about the right of seccession under international law, the landmark opinion about that is the one delivered by the Supreme Court of Canada in Re Secession of Quebec

[link]
(icj1)
-
So now the supreme court of Cananda should decide the fate of the Balkans?

You have, I assume, some kind of proof?
(Amer)
-
proof that Tuvala only exists thanks to financial aids?

Sure..."Tuvalu has almost no natural resources, and its main form of income consists of foreign aid. Virtually the only jobs in the islands that pay a steady wage or salary are with the government."---

And the source; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuvalu

As you can tell I am sure, this was fairly easy for me to find. perhaps if you bothered to educate yourself, I wouldn't have to.

So now the supreme court of Cananda should decide the fate of the Balkans?
(trudsaam, 22 November 2010 00:23)

Of course not. I said "if you want to educate yourself" because you inquired about the "right".

Of course for Kosovo the "right" is irrelevant as it is Canadian's Supreme Court Opinion.

ha ha ha...

I couldn´t but laugh, when I read this headline...

and I could imagine how our dear k-albanian friends would desperately start again to sell us this as a big success in their greater albanian project... =)

Tuvalu...

yeah! =)

my dear friends, Serbia is the name, that you should bear in mind! Serbia will be the name that will reach you again. just a question of time. don´t worry about that.

You must compare the 72 countries which recognized Kosovo with the 120 countries who did NOT recognize Kosovo to see the complete picture.
(Top, 19 November 2010 21:50)

Where did you find that 120 countries have not recognized Kosovo. There are 72 which have stated that they recognize Kosovo, a few which have stated that they don't recognize Kosovo and the rest (100 or so) which have not stated anything.

If I don't like chocolate cookies, I don't have to tell everyone I don't like them (though some people act like that). I simply don't buy them and be happy. Get the point?
(Top, 20 November 2010 17:25)
NO, it makes no sense, in relation to the subject.

But if you go to the store and you do not bring home cookies, can I assume you don't like cookies, had cookies yesterday and wasn't in the mood, wanted cookies but did not have enough money for them, or the store was out of cookies. No one knows.
If a country has not expressed an official opinion on the Kosovo-Serbia issue can someone assume they support Kosovo or Serbia, No. Get the point?