“Serbia wants dialogue as soon as possible”

Not a surprise that the Albanians are stalling, since their 'state' is in complete disarray: nobody knows who's drinking and who's paying, as the Serb expression says. Talks can only begin after elections, unless Kurti wins. Though I wonder just how much legitimacy any politician will have if only 1/3 of Albanians vote again. What a mess they've made for themselves.
(highduke, 13 November 2010 14:48)

I think you should worry about mess Serbia is in, and let Kosovars worry about their own mess.

You guys in a hurry or smth? Oh letting our gods with the big stamp "Kosovo" pass through your country? Sorry, but we did asked politle and got rejected so now everything will go through Albanian port, more money for Albania less for Serbia and pretty soon no more Serbian products as soon as taxes starts to take effect from that criminal part of Kosovo called northern Kosovo.

Here are some of the cracking points warning the expected failure of the expected negotiations.

“Serbia has always maintained that Priština's attempt to secede unilaterally is a violation of the basic principles of the UN Charter and the Helsinki Final Act, as well as Security Council Resolution 1244 (1999),” Jeremić pointed out.

The International Court of Justice did NOT agree what Jeremic thinks.

The second point

“Our principled position remains unchanged, as enshrined in our Constitution: we shall not recognize Kosovo's UDI, explicitly or implicitly.

To me that logic means what a waste of time even to start the negotiations. The Serbian constitution means nothing to Kosovo Albanians. It was pushed through by Koshtunica while the status negotiatons mediated by UN Secretary General representative Ahtisari were taking place and following the Serbian logic/principle Kosovo has had no say in that Serbian constitution.

As Jeremic talks about

".... a sustainable solution to an issue of such magnitude without the consent of all stakeholders,” that is to late to discuss after all the wars Serbia created in the Balkans, Serbia lost its stake/war.

Of course the Serbs want talks to start immediately, they need to be seen to be doing something to keep the EU happy. There's no rush for Kosovo, in fact, I'd suggest holding off until they get something in return, just like the Serbs got early consideration of their EU application for agreeing to solve a problem they themselves had made. Small countries in which large countries have a stake have to learn to play the perception game, namely, that the large country can't control the smaller one - just as So. Ossetia/the Tsvinkhali region has been doing with Russia. (To the benefit of its rulers, not the general population, of course.) The EU has been draging Kosovo around about visa liberalization - they ought to be willing to, at the least, provide a road map before expecting Kosovo to start helping Serbia and making the EU's job easier.

sj,

Enlighten us on what do you mean

"The ICJ was asked to give a non binding opinion on whether it was illegal to declare independence and it said that act was not illegal,"

Who asked ICJ to you information?

"but it stopped short of saying that Kosovo had the right to secede under law. It could have very easily, but it did not."

Is it Kosovo Albanians fault for ICJ not saying what Serbia wanted to say?

"In the end this opinion is non binding so it’s not enforceable"

Thanks you very much for making my point when I was stated that much earlier than you exactely when Serbia's hope were too high on a positive outcome from the ICJs. If you are patient enough read my previous comments here just before the Court's ruling. Now it suits you and Serbia to say that the Court's Opionion is not binding.

and then you go further to your political stupidity

"if you’re so sure why not go back to the ICJ and ask the real question." Why Albanians go to ICJ where the "real victims" like Serbs did the job for them?

If you want to READ the answer is in the ICJs OPINION.

Why rush things? Wait until after the elections in Kosovo when a government has been formed.

"Since the SRSG (special representative of the secretary general) did not call them, the OSCE cannot observe them, and the UN will not certify them,” he explained. "

Bon apetit, to whoever will swallow this down with a smile.

Enjoy Serbs, this wolf is taking you for a ride ;)
(dino, 13 November 2010, 12:27)

The only people being taken for a ride are the Albanians. There is no intention to speed up these talks – they will take years to even reach the important points, but it the US that wants this over and done as soon as possible. But it will go around and around in circles. Time is not on the Albos side.

(EA, 13 November 2010, 12:16)
“Serbia has always maintained that Priština's attempt to secede unilaterally is a violation of the basic principles of the UN Charter and the Helsinki Final Act…...”
The international Court did not rule on this at all because if that was the case then any one can declare themselves independent and you can imagine how many nations you would have on this earth – Indonesia alone is made up of over 1000 islands – get the point? The ICJ was asked to give a non binding opinion on whether it was illegal to declare independence and it said that act was not illegal, but it stopped short of saying that Kosovo had the right to secede under law. It could have very easily, but it did not. In the end this opinion is non binding so it’s not enforceable, but if you’re so sure why not go back to the ICJ and ask the real question. I’ll wager the Albos never go threr.

Not a surprise that the Albanians are stalling, since their 'state' is in complete disarray: nobody knows who's drinking and who's paying, as the Serb expression says. Talks can only begin after elections, unless Kurti wins. Though I wonder just how much legitimacy any politician will have if only 1/3 of Albanians vote again. What a mess they've made for themselves.

What a difference listening to Vuk, than to Vlora, who stomped her foot and in essence said, "Albanians in KiM will only discuss what we want to discuss". How in the world could anyone ever deal with these primitives?


Hey Winston, replace primitives with natives and you will answer your own question..

"Since the SRSG (special representative of the secretary general) did not call them, the OSCE cannot observe them, and the UN will not certify them,” he explained. "

Bon apetit, to whoever will swallow this down with a smile.

Enjoy Serbs, this wolf is taking you for a ride ;)

“The UN's status neutrality and that of all organizations that operate under its overall authority, such as KFOR, EULEX, and OMIK (OSCE Mission in Kosovo), remains the only acceptable framework within which all of us can work together to improve the lives of ordinary people in Kosovo, irrespective of their ethnicity,” noted Jeremić. What a difference listening to Vuk, than to Vlora, who stomped her foot and in essence said, "Albanians in KiM will only discuss what we want to discuss". How in the world could anyone ever deal with these primitives? Good luck to all, but I do not see the upcoming negotiations going anywhere, until Pristina grows up, and realizes that they are not in charge, and always behaving unilaterally, will not promote the finding of any agreements or solutions.

Let's stop bickering over the ICJ ruling. The advisory opinion was that it was not illegal for the Albanians to declare their UDI, but it did not give an opinion as to whether it was legal so them to secede. That is it. All else is how the individual wants to see it, but there is nothing else. We can see by the events on the ground, that the ICJ opinion changed nothing in Kosovo.

Even if K Albanians were granted visa-free travel to the EU, they could only go by plane, and avoid serbian airspace, or by boat, as their passports are not recognized by Serbia, thus no Albanian travel on Serbian soil. Eventually, all these issues will be addressed through negotiations with Belgrade.

I think the idea of getting both side "talking" about anything is always a good thing. But Blind Freddy can see that the main position of both sides is the independence of Kosovo. The good foreign minister wants to negotiate but wont negotiate in the very thing both sides disagree on. That alone doesnt bode well for the talks.This will be all for show. Everyone in Kosovo , Serbia , Europe and any student of international studies knows that Kosovars simply will not accept any type of serbian rule. Its that simple.Any person who thinks otherwise is simply not accepting the realpolitik ."More than autonomy and less than independence" - is probably the most abstract poltical phrase ever mentioned by any political entity. I still havn't heard any politician ( or any body else for that matter) explain what exaclty that means. Its no more than pure political rhetoric that is so abstract , it can mean anything to anybody. Perhaps thats the way the serbian foreign minister is planning on extracating himself form this problem . Claiming he was prepeared to negotiate , but not telling anyone exactly what he was negotiating. Nice way to spin a victory from a no win situation.

Once again, the Serbs show the strong diplomatic hand. Vuk showed way to much enthusiasm for addressing UDI at the ICJ and it must have hit him hard. This little speech goes a long way to improving his outlook.

We know Pristina doesn't want to talk. Nobody running Pristina right now has the aptitude for negotiation. Their idea of negotiation is when the other party is tied to a chair in a basement somewhere.

Only kosova will say when we begin with the negociations.

There is no pressure from the US, EU or even UN.

The only pressure that is coming is from Serbia because the current political leaders needs this to show to the world they are taking the lead in this matter.

But more important than this is that they want to stay in power in their own country and this is why they want to speed up talks.

For us Kosovars it is better to delay and to have another government at place in Serbia.

One who is really want to take the responsibility for progress and accept the reality of the independance of Kosova.

Do not forget that the Illyrians where the first people in the Balkans, some of you can start barfing (Winston?)

In a few years we will have no kind of this discussion anymore about the independence of Kosova.

Kosova for all Kosovars!

(EA, 13 November 2010 15:50)
It is exactly just that “a non-binding” opinion, meaning that it’s an interpretation and nothing more. It was just that from the beginning. I suggest that you go back and do some research – the word “non-binding opinion” was always there.
Even the US said that if the ICJ’s decision was in favor of Serbia it would ignore it.
It is now common knowledge that the US rigged the ICJ decision because of the number of western judicial stooges on the bench. In all the Courts that I know there is never a decision made by a judge or judges that can only apply to one single situation; all decisions in unique cases such as Kosovo have a profound effect on similar situations. Lawyers cite other cases to make their point – it’s called precedent.
If California decided to declare independence from the US it would only have to hold a plebiscite and declare its intensions – as did Kosovo. Yeah, that will be the day.
The US did not want to go that far because it would allow every group on this planet to declare independence such as the Basques in Spain and the Corsicans in France. There would be literally thousands of little unsustainable countries. There was just enough material in the opinion to try and mask over the real reasons for an independent Kosovo – Camp Bondsteel. It was never on humanitarian grounds or because they have a love of Albos – why did the US not interfere in Rwanda? There were nearly 1 million deaths; It’s was not in their interests.
If it was not a non-binding opinion then the Albos have every right to seek redress from the ICJ. Then I suggest that your people go back to the ICJ and get that statement that “Kosovo is independent based on the ICJ’s original decision”. Good luck!

(Pejoni, 13 November 2010 16:19
“You guys in a hurry or smth” actually Serbia is not in a hurry. It’s to put pressure on the US/EU – it’s all a game waiting for the situation to change. You might just read about the big gathering of NATO/RUSSIA in Lisbon.
“…. so now everything will go through Albanian port, more money” What do Albanians in Kosovo produce again except hot air? Are you talking about a Kosovo on Mars or Earth? Maybe you’re talking about exporting drugs, human traffic; then its best it goes through Albania.

…replace primitives with natives and you will answer your own question..
(Dibrani, 13 November 2010 20:51)

Please, not the Illyrian BS again. Next you’ll be claiming that Albanians first settled Australia and not the Australian Aborigines.

sj,

"It is now common knowledge that the US rigged the ICJ decision because of the number of western judicial stooges on the bench."

Where did you get this "common knowledge" that common people don't know. My concern is that you and people like you don't want to listen/read but locked up in the Serbian nationalistic box.


"In all the Courts that I know there is never a decision made by a judge or judges that can only apply to one single situation; all decisions in unique cases such as Kosovo have a profound effect on similar situations. Lawyers cite other cases to make their point – it’s called precedent."

Precedent might be applied to national courts like in England for example. But the Court/judge can have something called discretion and jurisdiction.

I would never dare to discuss a Court decision/opinion. I can challenge it through a legal proceedings depending on the grounds. REMEMBER again and again that it was Serbia who applied to the ICJ and its hopes and expectations were much higher than Kosovo Albanians.

You are totally messing up two different realities when stating here that


"If California decided to declare independence from the US it would only have to hold a plebiscite and declare its intensions – as did Kosovo."

Just for your INFORMATION again in Kosovo there was a war triggered by the state of Serbia. There was a ethnic cleansing committed in the name of Miloshevic former head of state of Yugoslavia and Serbia. We can argue all day and night whether it was a war or ethnic cleansing, whether the force used by Serbia was proportionate or disproportionate.....The division of opinions will still be huge. But I do know for FACTS that many Kosovo families sought shelter in Tirana, Albania where I come from originally. Rest assured that they were not on holidays. So California and Kosovo ARE two different stories and very bad examples from you.

You refer to Rwanda and other regions to make your point. Your point is on the negative side of it rather than positive. Why don't you say "it was great to liberate Kosovo from oppression", "I would like EU and USA to solve all similar conflicts like they did with Kosovo". But your logic is "as we have many many similar conflicts let them unsolved in the same way". You "forget" that Kosovo in Europe and Europe could not allow the ethnic cleansing in its centre.

You go on

"If it was not a non-binding opinion then the Albos have every right to seek redress from the ICJ."

In Albania we have a saying "why scratch your back when it is not itching". I don't know whether the Serbs use the same expression. I hope it makes sense to you.

"Then I suggest that your people go back to the ICJ and get that statement that “Kosovo is independent based on the ICJ’s original decision”. Good luck!"

Thanks you but why to waste the time and money like Serbia did with its original application?

Eventually, all these issues will be addressed through negotiations with Belgrade.
(winston, 13 November 2010 19:0

i here you tokyo rose, i am here, you are there. come try your luck, we have plenty of meat, bring the salad.

It is now common knowledge that the US rigged the ICJ decision because of the number of western judicial stooges on the bench. In all the Courts that I know there is never a decision made by a judge or judges that can only apply to one single situation; all decisions in unique cases such as Kosovo have a profound effect on similar situations. Lawyers cite other cases to make their point – it’s called precedent.
sj,
More ridiculous babble, the US rigged the decision by lining the court with western judges. The US has no more control over the makeup of the court than Russia or China or UK or France.
The precedent part is true though. The next time the UNSC decides that it must enact a resolution to force the withdrawal of forces inorder to save an entire population and then build a new government and then after 10 years still refuse to allow the country to reassume control of an area, I am sure the Kosovo precedent will be cited.

Kosovo's politicians made one very smart move - they declared their country to be America's staunchest ally in the Balkans. This means, based on previous experience, that like Israel, they will be able to extract God knows what concessions to come to an agreement in their own favor. Or even to agree to talk. Israel, for example, has been offered 20 jets plus other goodies to agree to a 90-day building freeze that may not even include East Jerusalem. (Forget it, guys - NO JETS!)

sj,

Again you are not reading or wanting to understand

" the ....independent Kosovo has been stagnating for the last 11 years and the quickest way is to seek that redress from the ICJ then you’re free of Serbia for ever.

We understand you "good will" and "sympathy for Kosovo Albanians" but the answer is NO if I can put it politely.

Too much time has been wasted because of the Serbia#s policy in Kosovo. For your records there will be no status negotiations in the expected talks. As soon as Serbia starts the talks are over. No EU for Serbia until it recognises Kosovo independence. The choices are simple for Serbia. 1-Recognise Kosovo independence and both Kosovo and Serbia in EU. 2-Continue not to recognise Kosovo. obviously Kosovo lost and EU lost. I hope you get my STRAGHT point this third time!))))

(EA, 14 November 2010 13:33)


"Then I suggest that your people go back to the ICJ and get that statement that “Kosovo is independent based on the ICJ’s original decision”. Good luck!"

Thanks you but why to waste the time and money like Serbia did with its original application?”

Because the so called Independent Kosovo has been stagnating for the last 11 years and the quickest way is to seek that redress from the ICJ then you’re free of Serbia for ever.

To provide you with answers and proof to your other questions I’d have to write a thesis.


(Amer, 14 November 2010 16:10)


As Bob Dylan sings “the times are a changing” and I would not hold my breath on those concessions. Your opening statement would have been correct if it was 1985, but not today.

I’m convinced that the US media treats you guys like mushrooms – kept in the dark and fed on BS. Two of the most humiliating set backs occurred to Barak Obama at the G20 and ASIAN meeting. At both the US tried to gather momentum to “force” China to change it monetary policy and both times Obama was SOUNDLY defeated – even the UK did not stand with the US. Then there was the recent meeting between Russia and NATO in Lisbon and apparently Sergei Lavrov was delighted with the out come - NATO disappearing down the toilet bowl and new security being formed.

There is a large Jewish population in the US and if you take a good look at the government, academia, financial sector then you will see that they are over represented in all these areas and their political clout is enormouse. Plus the US Christian fanatical groups that support Israel…..need I go on? In addition, Israel is smack dam in the middle east where the US gets its oil.

Now what do the Kosovo Albos have to offer again?

sj - you're right, the Jewish lobby in the US is well organized - but how many times have we heard here about the mighty Albanian lobby? And the overriding importance of Camp Bondsteel to US imperial plans?

In addition, the newly elected Republicans that will be entering Congress in January are big on "spreading democracy" and so should be prepared to support little Kosovo in its struggles to ensure its independence. Not that this is apt to include jets, as I said before. But as there isn't enough air space in the CR to use jets without making plans in advance with Slovakia, I doubt anybody really wants any in Kosovo. Drones are what they'll need.

"Do not forget that the Illyrians where the first people in the Balkans, some of you can start barfing (Winston?)"
=====================

How can we forget? You guys keep reminding us of this useless bit of information every day.

The Indians were first in America and see how it doesn't matter at all. The Aborigines were first in Australia and guess what? It doesn't matter.
At least these people can prove their existance before the English came and took over. You guys have absolutely no proof of having Kosovo before the Serbs settled.
Your sheep might've grazed on the hill somewhere there but Kosovo being your land is not something you can prove. Who were your leaders and what was your capital there?
Where is your history represented? What did the borders of Albanian Kosovo look like before Serbs came?

NO PRESURE??? of course there is pressure listen!!! US, EU and UN have all called for talks ASAP!

Think of it like buying things using a credit card..lots of fun swiping that card = k albanians over last 12 year..but not so fun when the bills arrive = k albanians today ..it is time to start giving for all that you have received !! how it works guys

(Amer, 15 November 2010 01:15)

The Jewish lobby in not only well organised, but its supporters are some of the wealthiest people in the US; it has enormous political clout in Washington. Look at the names that hold Cabinet positions, judiciary, academia etc. However, the Albanian lobby is only as good as their ideas coincided with US interests – I’d agree that their importance has been over inflated by Serbs. But Camp Bondsteel was an important piece in the puzzle.

Your republicans couldn’t spread butter on bread let alone democracy – look at their failures; Iraq Afghanistan, in fact the entire middle east. Republicans or democrats are all the same; while in opposition they say anything, but when in power they just continue what the last lot in government have been doing. If its drones, then there are a plenty in the US congress and Senate but you’ll find out that in late 2010 the US can’t scratch itself without collective approval, especially after the recent meetings between NATO and the Russians in Lisbon. Let me repeat at the recent G20 meeting and APEC in Japan the US was “humiliated” when not one of their suggestions was adopted against China – this would have been unthinkable 10 years ago. Even the UK refused to support it.

I would not hang my hat on US support. As soon as priorities change they will drop the Albos like a hot potato and they are beginning to change. These impending talks are not happening because there is a “feel good “atmosphere; they are happening because there is no more money to keep the status quo and there is a great fear that if the situation does not change the Kosovo Albos are going to target the US/NATO troops. 12 years of stagnation can make people very angry when all they have is promises and nothing coming to fruition.

The US of the 20 century is not the same country in 2010.

(EA, 14 November 2010 23:58)

I understand clearly what you’re getting at. However, it is a matter of simply putting that question to the ICJ. It will clear it up once and for all time. The reason why the answer is NO is because the US would never allow that to happen.

Kosovo can NEVER join the EU while its disputed land; nor can anyone mine minerals or explore for gas or oil or invest. The Albanians want the EU because they have nothing in Kosovo and think money will come out of the sky once they join. Serbs on the other hand are 70% against while 20% are for joining.

I suggest that you get a copy of a 1970s UK series called “Yes Minister”. It will give you an excellent grounding into western politics machinations and what it means when repeatedly deny something is not up for discussion.

"Since the SRSG (special representative of the secretary general) did not call them, the OSCE cannot observe them, and the UN will not certify them,” he explained. "

Bon apetit, to whoever will swallow this down with a smile.

Enjoy Serbs, this wolf is taking you for a ride ;)
(dino, 13 November 2010, 12:27)

The only people being taken for a ride are the Albanians. There is no intention to speed up these talks – they will take years to even reach the important points, but it the US that wants this over and done as soon as possible. But it will go around and around in circles. Time is not on the Albos side.

(EA, 13 November 2010, 12:16)
“Serbia has always maintained that Priština's attempt to secede unilaterally is a violation of the basic principles of the UN Charter and the Helsinki Final Act…...”
The international Court did not rule on this at all because if that was the case then any one can declare themselves independent and you can imagine how many nations you would have on this earth – Indonesia alone is made up of over 1000 islands – get the point? The ICJ was asked to give a non binding opinion on whether it was illegal to declare independence and it said that act was not illegal, but it stopped short of saying that Kosovo had the right to secede under law. It could have very easily, but it did not. In the end this opinion is non binding so it’s not enforceable, but if you’re so sure why not go back to the ICJ and ask the real question. I’ll wager the Albos never go threr.

Not a surprise that the Albanians are stalling, since their 'state' is in complete disarray: nobody knows who's drinking and who's paying, as the Serb expression says. Talks can only begin after elections, unless Kurti wins. Though I wonder just how much legitimacy any politician will have if only 1/3 of Albanians vote again. What a mess they've made for themselves.

“The UN's status neutrality and that of all organizations that operate under its overall authority, such as KFOR, EULEX, and OMIK (OSCE Mission in Kosovo), remains the only acceptable framework within which all of us can work together to improve the lives of ordinary people in Kosovo, irrespective of their ethnicity,” noted Jeremić. What a difference listening to Vuk, than to Vlora, who stomped her foot and in essence said, "Albanians in KiM will only discuss what we want to discuss". How in the world could anyone ever deal with these primitives? Good luck to all, but I do not see the upcoming negotiations going anywhere, until Pristina grows up, and realizes that they are not in charge, and always behaving unilaterally, will not promote the finding of any agreements or solutions.

Here are some of the cracking points warning the expected failure of the expected negotiations.

“Serbia has always maintained that Priština's attempt to secede unilaterally is a violation of the basic principles of the UN Charter and the Helsinki Final Act, as well as Security Council Resolution 1244 (1999),” Jeremić pointed out.

The International Court of Justice did NOT agree what Jeremic thinks.

The second point

“Our principled position remains unchanged, as enshrined in our Constitution: we shall not recognize Kosovo's UDI, explicitly or implicitly.

To me that logic means what a waste of time even to start the negotiations. The Serbian constitution means nothing to Kosovo Albanians. It was pushed through by Koshtunica while the status negotiatons mediated by UN Secretary General representative Ahtisari were taking place and following the Serbian logic/principle Kosovo has had no say in that Serbian constitution.

As Jeremic talks about

".... a sustainable solution to an issue of such magnitude without the consent of all stakeholders,” that is to late to discuss after all the wars Serbia created in the Balkans, Serbia lost its stake/war.

Even if K Albanians were granted visa-free travel to the EU, they could only go by plane, and avoid serbian airspace, or by boat, as their passports are not recognized by Serbia, thus no Albanian travel on Serbian soil. Eventually, all these issues will be addressed through negotiations with Belgrade.

Why rush things? Wait until after the elections in Kosovo when a government has been formed.

"Since the SRSG (special representative of the secretary general) did not call them, the OSCE cannot observe them, and the UN will not certify them,” he explained. "

Bon apetit, to whoever will swallow this down with a smile.

Enjoy Serbs, this wolf is taking you for a ride ;)

Not a surprise that the Albanians are stalling, since their 'state' is in complete disarray: nobody knows who's drinking and who's paying, as the Serb expression says. Talks can only begin after elections, unless Kurti wins. Though I wonder just how much legitimacy any politician will have if only 1/3 of Albanians vote again. What a mess they've made for themselves.
(highduke, 13 November 2010 14:48)

I think you should worry about mess Serbia is in, and let Kosovars worry about their own mess.

You guys in a hurry or smth? Oh letting our gods with the big stamp "Kosovo" pass through your country? Sorry, but we did asked politle and got rejected so now everything will go through Albanian port, more money for Albania less for Serbia and pretty soon no more Serbian products as soon as taxes starts to take effect from that criminal part of Kosovo called northern Kosovo.

sj,

Enlighten us on what do you mean

"The ICJ was asked to give a non binding opinion on whether it was illegal to declare independence and it said that act was not illegal,"

Who asked ICJ to you information?

"but it stopped short of saying that Kosovo had the right to secede under law. It could have very easily, but it did not."

Is it Kosovo Albanians fault for ICJ not saying what Serbia wanted to say?

"In the end this opinion is non binding so it’s not enforceable"

Thanks you very much for making my point when I was stated that much earlier than you exactely when Serbia's hope were too high on a positive outcome from the ICJs. If you are patient enough read my previous comments here just before the Court's ruling. Now it suits you and Serbia to say that the Court's Opionion is not binding.

and then you go further to your political stupidity

"if you’re so sure why not go back to the ICJ and ask the real question." Why Albanians go to ICJ where the "real victims" like Serbs did the job for them?

If you want to READ the answer is in the ICJs OPINION.

Let's stop bickering over the ICJ ruling. The advisory opinion was that it was not illegal for the Albanians to declare their UDI, but it did not give an opinion as to whether it was legal so them to secede. That is it. All else is how the individual wants to see it, but there is nothing else. We can see by the events on the ground, that the ICJ opinion changed nothing in Kosovo.

Once again, the Serbs show the strong diplomatic hand. Vuk showed way to much enthusiasm for addressing UDI at the ICJ and it must have hit him hard. This little speech goes a long way to improving his outlook.

We know Pristina doesn't want to talk. Nobody running Pristina right now has the aptitude for negotiation. Their idea of negotiation is when the other party is tied to a chair in a basement somewhere.

What a difference listening to Vuk, than to Vlora, who stomped her foot and in essence said, "Albanians in KiM will only discuss what we want to discuss". How in the world could anyone ever deal with these primitives?


Hey Winston, replace primitives with natives and you will answer your own question..

Of course the Serbs want talks to start immediately, they need to be seen to be doing something to keep the EU happy. There's no rush for Kosovo, in fact, I'd suggest holding off until they get something in return, just like the Serbs got early consideration of their EU application for agreeing to solve a problem they themselves had made. Small countries in which large countries have a stake have to learn to play the perception game, namely, that the large country can't control the smaller one - just as So. Ossetia/the Tsvinkhali region has been doing with Russia. (To the benefit of its rulers, not the general population, of course.) The EU has been draging Kosovo around about visa liberalization - they ought to be willing to, at the least, provide a road map before expecting Kosovo to start helping Serbia and making the EU's job easier.

(EA, 13 November 2010 15:50)
It is exactly just that “a non-binding” opinion, meaning that it’s an interpretation and nothing more. It was just that from the beginning. I suggest that you go back and do some research – the word “non-binding opinion” was always there.
Even the US said that if the ICJ’s decision was in favor of Serbia it would ignore it.
It is now common knowledge that the US rigged the ICJ decision because of the number of western judicial stooges on the bench. In all the Courts that I know there is never a decision made by a judge or judges that can only apply to one single situation; all decisions in unique cases such as Kosovo have a profound effect on similar situations. Lawyers cite other cases to make their point – it’s called precedent.
If California decided to declare independence from the US it would only have to hold a plebiscite and declare its intensions – as did Kosovo. Yeah, that will be the day.
The US did not want to go that far because it would allow every group on this planet to declare independence such as the Basques in Spain and the Corsicans in France. There would be literally thousands of little unsustainable countries. There was just enough material in the opinion to try and mask over the real reasons for an independent Kosovo – Camp Bondsteel. It was never on humanitarian grounds or because they have a love of Albos – why did the US not interfere in Rwanda? There were nearly 1 million deaths; It’s was not in their interests.
If it was not a non-binding opinion then the Albos have every right to seek redress from the ICJ. Then I suggest that your people go back to the ICJ and get that statement that “Kosovo is independent based on the ICJ’s original decision”. Good luck!

(Pejoni, 13 November 2010 16:19
“You guys in a hurry or smth” actually Serbia is not in a hurry. It’s to put pressure on the US/EU – it’s all a game waiting for the situation to change. You might just read about the big gathering of NATO/RUSSIA in Lisbon.
“…. so now everything will go through Albanian port, more money” What do Albanians in Kosovo produce again except hot air? Are you talking about a Kosovo on Mars or Earth? Maybe you’re talking about exporting drugs, human traffic; then its best it goes through Albania.

…replace primitives with natives and you will answer your own question..
(Dibrani, 13 November 2010 20:51)

Please, not the Illyrian BS again. Next you’ll be claiming that Albanians first settled Australia and not the Australian Aborigines.

"Do not forget that the Illyrians where the first people in the Balkans, some of you can start barfing (Winston?)"
=====================

How can we forget? You guys keep reminding us of this useless bit of information every day.

The Indians were first in America and see how it doesn't matter at all. The Aborigines were first in Australia and guess what? It doesn't matter.
At least these people can prove their existance before the English came and took over. You guys have absolutely no proof of having Kosovo before the Serbs settled.
Your sheep might've grazed on the hill somewhere there but Kosovo being your land is not something you can prove. Who were your leaders and what was your capital there?
Where is your history represented? What did the borders of Albanian Kosovo look like before Serbs came?

Eventually, all these issues will be addressed through negotiations with Belgrade.
(winston, 13 November 2010 19:0

i here you tokyo rose, i am here, you are there. come try your luck, we have plenty of meat, bring the salad.

Only kosova will say when we begin with the negociations.

There is no pressure from the US, EU or even UN.

The only pressure that is coming is from Serbia because the current political leaders needs this to show to the world they are taking the lead in this matter.

But more important than this is that they want to stay in power in their own country and this is why they want to speed up talks.

For us Kosovars it is better to delay and to have another government at place in Serbia.

One who is really want to take the responsibility for progress and accept the reality of the independance of Kosova.

Do not forget that the Illyrians where the first people in the Balkans, some of you can start barfing (Winston?)

In a few years we will have no kind of this discussion anymore about the independence of Kosova.

Kosova for all Kosovars!

sj,

"It is now common knowledge that the US rigged the ICJ decision because of the number of western judicial stooges on the bench."

Where did you get this "common knowledge" that common people don't know. My concern is that you and people like you don't want to listen/read but locked up in the Serbian nationalistic box.


"In all the Courts that I know there is never a decision made by a judge or judges that can only apply to one single situation; all decisions in unique cases such as Kosovo have a profound effect on similar situations. Lawyers cite other cases to make their point – it’s called precedent."

Precedent might be applied to national courts like in England for example. But the Court/judge can have something called discretion and jurisdiction.

I would never dare to discuss a Court decision/opinion. I can challenge it through a legal proceedings depending on the grounds. REMEMBER again and again that it was Serbia who applied to the ICJ and its hopes and expectations were much higher than Kosovo Albanians.

You are totally messing up two different realities when stating here that


"If California decided to declare independence from the US it would only have to hold a plebiscite and declare its intensions – as did Kosovo."

Just for your INFORMATION again in Kosovo there was a war triggered by the state of Serbia. There was a ethnic cleansing committed in the name of Miloshevic former head of state of Yugoslavia and Serbia. We can argue all day and night whether it was a war or ethnic cleansing, whether the force used by Serbia was proportionate or disproportionate.....The division of opinions will still be huge. But I do know for FACTS that many Kosovo families sought shelter in Tirana, Albania where I come from originally. Rest assured that they were not on holidays. So California and Kosovo ARE two different stories and very bad examples from you.

You refer to Rwanda and other regions to make your point. Your point is on the negative side of it rather than positive. Why don't you say "it was great to liberate Kosovo from oppression", "I would like EU and USA to solve all similar conflicts like they did with Kosovo". But your logic is "as we have many many similar conflicts let them unsolved in the same way". You "forget" that Kosovo in Europe and Europe could not allow the ethnic cleansing in its centre.

You go on

"If it was not a non-binding opinion then the Albos have every right to seek redress from the ICJ."

In Albania we have a saying "why scratch your back when it is not itching". I don't know whether the Serbs use the same expression. I hope it makes sense to you.

"Then I suggest that your people go back to the ICJ and get that statement that “Kosovo is independent based on the ICJ’s original decision”. Good luck!"

Thanks you but why to waste the time and money like Serbia did with its original application?

(EA, 14 November 2010 13:33)


"Then I suggest that your people go back to the ICJ and get that statement that “Kosovo is independent based on the ICJ’s original decision”. Good luck!"

Thanks you but why to waste the time and money like Serbia did with its original application?”

Because the so called Independent Kosovo has been stagnating for the last 11 years and the quickest way is to seek that redress from the ICJ then you’re free of Serbia for ever.

To provide you with answers and proof to your other questions I’d have to write a thesis.


(Amer, 14 November 2010 16:10)


As Bob Dylan sings “the times are a changing” and I would not hold my breath on those concessions. Your opening statement would have been correct if it was 1985, but not today.

I’m convinced that the US media treats you guys like mushrooms – kept in the dark and fed on BS. Two of the most humiliating set backs occurred to Barak Obama at the G20 and ASIAN meeting. At both the US tried to gather momentum to “force” China to change it monetary policy and both times Obama was SOUNDLY defeated – even the UK did not stand with the US. Then there was the recent meeting between Russia and NATO in Lisbon and apparently Sergei Lavrov was delighted with the out come - NATO disappearing down the toilet bowl and new security being formed.

There is a large Jewish population in the US and if you take a good look at the government, academia, financial sector then you will see that they are over represented in all these areas and their political clout is enormouse. Plus the US Christian fanatical groups that support Israel…..need I go on? In addition, Israel is smack dam in the middle east where the US gets its oil.

Now what do the Kosovo Albos have to offer again?

NO PRESURE??? of course there is pressure listen!!! US, EU and UN have all called for talks ASAP!

Think of it like buying things using a credit card..lots of fun swiping that card = k albanians over last 12 year..but not so fun when the bills arrive = k albanians today ..it is time to start giving for all that you have received !! how it works guys

I think the idea of getting both side "talking" about anything is always a good thing. But Blind Freddy can see that the main position of both sides is the independence of Kosovo. The good foreign minister wants to negotiate but wont negotiate in the very thing both sides disagree on. That alone doesnt bode well for the talks.This will be all for show. Everyone in Kosovo , Serbia , Europe and any student of international studies knows that Kosovars simply will not accept any type of serbian rule. Its that simple.Any person who thinks otherwise is simply not accepting the realpolitik ."More than autonomy and less than independence" - is probably the most abstract poltical phrase ever mentioned by any political entity. I still havn't heard any politician ( or any body else for that matter) explain what exaclty that means. Its no more than pure political rhetoric that is so abstract , it can mean anything to anybody. Perhaps thats the way the serbian foreign minister is planning on extracating himself form this problem . Claiming he was prepeared to negotiate , but not telling anyone exactly what he was negotiating. Nice way to spin a victory from a no win situation.

It is now common knowledge that the US rigged the ICJ decision because of the number of western judicial stooges on the bench. In all the Courts that I know there is never a decision made by a judge or judges that can only apply to one single situation; all decisions in unique cases such as Kosovo have a profound effect on similar situations. Lawyers cite other cases to make their point – it’s called precedent.
sj,
More ridiculous babble, the US rigged the decision by lining the court with western judges. The US has no more control over the makeup of the court than Russia or China or UK or France.
The precedent part is true though. The next time the UNSC decides that it must enact a resolution to force the withdrawal of forces inorder to save an entire population and then build a new government and then after 10 years still refuse to allow the country to reassume control of an area, I am sure the Kosovo precedent will be cited.

Kosovo's politicians made one very smart move - they declared their country to be America's staunchest ally in the Balkans. This means, based on previous experience, that like Israel, they will be able to extract God knows what concessions to come to an agreement in their own favor. Or even to agree to talk. Israel, for example, has been offered 20 jets plus other goodies to agree to a 90-day building freeze that may not even include East Jerusalem. (Forget it, guys - NO JETS!)

sj,

Again you are not reading or wanting to understand

" the ....independent Kosovo has been stagnating for the last 11 years and the quickest way is to seek that redress from the ICJ then you’re free of Serbia for ever.

We understand you "good will" and "sympathy for Kosovo Albanians" but the answer is NO if I can put it politely.

Too much time has been wasted because of the Serbia#s policy in Kosovo. For your records there will be no status negotiations in the expected talks. As soon as Serbia starts the talks are over. No EU for Serbia until it recognises Kosovo independence. The choices are simple for Serbia. 1-Recognise Kosovo independence and both Kosovo and Serbia in EU. 2-Continue not to recognise Kosovo. obviously Kosovo lost and EU lost. I hope you get my STRAGHT point this third time!))))

sj - you're right, the Jewish lobby in the US is well organized - but how many times have we heard here about the mighty Albanian lobby? And the overriding importance of Camp Bondsteel to US imperial plans?

In addition, the newly elected Republicans that will be entering Congress in January are big on "spreading democracy" and so should be prepared to support little Kosovo in its struggles to ensure its independence. Not that this is apt to include jets, as I said before. But as there isn't enough air space in the CR to use jets without making plans in advance with Slovakia, I doubt anybody really wants any in Kosovo. Drones are what they'll need.

(Amer, 15 November 2010 01:15)

The Jewish lobby in not only well organised, but its supporters are some of the wealthiest people in the US; it has enormous political clout in Washington. Look at the names that hold Cabinet positions, judiciary, academia etc. However, the Albanian lobby is only as good as their ideas coincided with US interests – I’d agree that their importance has been over inflated by Serbs. But Camp Bondsteel was an important piece in the puzzle.

Your republicans couldn’t spread butter on bread let alone democracy – look at their failures; Iraq Afghanistan, in fact the entire middle east. Republicans or democrats are all the same; while in opposition they say anything, but when in power they just continue what the last lot in government have been doing. If its drones, then there are a plenty in the US congress and Senate but you’ll find out that in late 2010 the US can’t scratch itself without collective approval, especially after the recent meetings between NATO and the Russians in Lisbon. Let me repeat at the recent G20 meeting and APEC in Japan the US was “humiliated” when not one of their suggestions was adopted against China – this would have been unthinkable 10 years ago. Even the UK refused to support it.

I would not hang my hat on US support. As soon as priorities change they will drop the Albos like a hot potato and they are beginning to change. These impending talks are not happening because there is a “feel good “atmosphere; they are happening because there is no more money to keep the status quo and there is a great fear that if the situation does not change the Kosovo Albos are going to target the US/NATO troops. 12 years of stagnation can make people very angry when all they have is promises and nothing coming to fruition.

The US of the 20 century is not the same country in 2010.

(EA, 14 November 2010 23:58)

I understand clearly what you’re getting at. However, it is a matter of simply putting that question to the ICJ. It will clear it up once and for all time. The reason why the answer is NO is because the US would never allow that to happen.

Kosovo can NEVER join the EU while its disputed land; nor can anyone mine minerals or explore for gas or oil or invest. The Albanians want the EU because they have nothing in Kosovo and think money will come out of the sky once they join. Serbs on the other hand are 70% against while 20% are for joining.

I suggest that you get a copy of a 1970s UK series called “Yes Minister”. It will give you an excellent grounding into western politics machinations and what it means when repeatedly deny something is not up for discussion.