29

Friday, 05.11.2010.

09:37

Romania reaffirms stance on Kosovo

Romania will not change its stance regarding recognizing Kosovo "because it is a matter of principle", Romanian FM Teodor Baconschi said in Bucharest.

Izvor: Tanjug

Romania reaffirms stance on Kosovo IMAGE SOURCE
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29 Komentari

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icj1

pre 13 godina

Trudsaam was asking the more appropriate question of "Why do you think Kosovo has a right to be independant?").
(Ark I, 9 November 2010 16:33)

No, that question is wrong, because I nowhere said that “I think Kosovo has a right to be independent”. The correct question would have been “what do you think…” instead of putting somebody’s else thoughts in my head.

If that’s what he meant, then here is what I think. Under Serbian law, Kosovo does not have a right to be independent. Under international law, I have not yet formed a definitive opinion; it could be yes, it could be no… There are arguments on both sides. I leaned more towards the no before the ICJ decision and I said that in this site, but after reading the dissenting opinion of Judge Cancado Trindade, I now lean more towards the yes. Anyway it’s something that’s irrelevant now for legality or illegality determination in Kosovo’s case – so we can discuss it for academic purposes if you want.

Indeed ICJ said that “is not required by the question it has been asked to take a position on whether international law conferred a positive entitlement on Kosovo unilaterally to declare its independence”. After saying the above, the Court indeed solved the legality issue without having to deal at all with whether a right existed or not. To remove any doubt about that even for dummies, the Court contrasted it with the famous Quebec opinion of the Supreme Court of Canada. And that case WAS about the “right”. So ICJ said:

“The question put to the Supreme Court of Canada inquired whether there was a right to “effect secession”, and whether there was a rule of international law which conferred a positive entitlement on any of the organs named. By contrast, the General Assembly has asked whether the declaration of independence was “in accordance with” international law”

So what did the ICJ have to do to answer the question about Kosovo ? “The answer to that question turns on whether or not the applicable international law prohibited the declaration of independence” so it did not care at all about right or no right. “The task which the Court is called upon to perform is to determine whether or not the declaration of independence was adopted in violation of international law”


I thought that was obvious from his question, but since you didn't get it I will clarify.
(Ark I, 9 November 2010 16:33)

No, I did not get it because I don’t remember having said anywhere what he said that I thought.


Declaring independence according to the international court of "justice" does not equate to being independent,
(Ark I, 9 November 2010 16:33)

The court said declaring independence was not illegal. Full stop. The rest are your words, which I agree with. The Court provided the legal basis under int’l law for the independence (so de-jure Kosovo is now independent). That of course does not make an entity de-facto independent. Whether something is de-facto independent or not, that’s determined from the reality on the ground, not from paperwork. So the question is who, de facto, has the final word in Kosovo ? Serbia says UNMIK is in charge; Kosovo says it’s Kosovo’s government. So, it appears all parties agree that Serbia is not in charge and thus Kosovo is de-facto independent from Serbia (and it’s been so for more than 10 years now). Whether it is de-facto independent from UNMIK or not, here the opinions diverge and we need to consider more facts about that.


it only means that people said the words "we are independent".
(Ark I, 9 November 2010 16:33)

And, continue the sentence, they did so legally. Which in turn means that Kosovo’s Constitution, which is based on those words, is legal. Which is turn means that Kosovo’s government, which is based on the Constitution, is legal. Which in turn means that all decisions of Kosovo’s government taken in accordance with the Constitution are legal, and so on. So yes, those few words declared legally, make legal a lot of things.


Whereas Trudsaam's question doesn't have that technical loophole that albanian and western propaganda like to exploit.
(Ark I, 9 November 2010 16:33)

As explained above, Trudsaam question was based on the false assumption that I think that Kosovo has the right to be independent. So it was not a matter of “technical loophole”. The whole question was a hole.

And I’m not sure what is the loophole that Albanian and western propaganda like to exploit. The Court, against all expectations, was crystal clear in answering the question: “the declaration of independence of Kosovo adopted on 17 February 2008 did not violate international law”. It did not leave any question or doubt as far as the legality is concerned.

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Ark I

pre 13 godina

---
What you are saying does not show that Kosovo has a right to declare independence under international law, which is what Trudsaam was asking.
(icj1, 7 November 2010 23:52)
---

No, Trudsaam wasn't asking if Kosovo has a right to declare independence, that was the foolish question Tadic's crew asked. Trudsaam was asking the more appropriate question of "Why do you think Kosovo has a right to be independant?"). I thought that was obvious from his question, but since you didn't get it I will clarify. Declaring independence according to the international court of "justice" does not equate to being independent, it only means that people said the words "we are independent". Whereas Trudsaam's question doesn't have that technical loophole that albanian and western propaganda like to exploit.

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icj1

pre 13 godina

Kosovo hasnt even been recognised as an independent country
(Velibor, 8 November 2010 16:15)

Qualify your statement! By whom ?

Only very few countries (probably not more than 20) have declared that they don't recognize Kosovo. 71 have declared that they do recognize Kosovo. A significant number of others have not declared anything (neither recognizing; nor not-recognizing).

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Velibor

pre 13 godina

**********
Johny, so do you think that in a 100 or so years, if Albanians intimidate and murder and drive Serbians out of another part of Serbia and become the majority, that Serbia should give up another piece of their land so as not to anger the thieves that took it?

The Serbs freed Serbia from the Ottoman over 500 years after they attacked and enslaved us, so you think we will just bow down and give up our land to the by-product of Ottoman oppression after only 100 years of Albanian population growth accomplished by intimidation, murder and thievery?

If we bow down to people that think they can take over our land by increasing their population and decreasing the population of the Serbs, then Serbia will eventually cease to exist, because we know that Albanians won't be happy until they take all of Serbia, and even then, they will probably want more. The line has to be drawn somewhere.
(Ark I, 5 November 2010 22:08)
**********

RESPONSE: This comment is most likely the best comment posted on this topic and hits the nail on the head...
Kosovo hasnt even been recognised as an independent country and already they demand more land...however this time its not only from 1 country but 4

Serbia, Greece, Montenegro, and Macedonia...here's the pic of the new map of Albania and some more stuff about it...

http://www.irandefence.net/showthread.php?t=58379

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icj1

pre 13 godina

So why do you think Kosovo has a right to be independant?
(trudsaam, 6 November 2010 15:50)

Because it is my will as well as majority of population will. This will is accepted and recognized by 71 countries.
If this is not sufficient for you then obviously you need to thrash this matter elsewhere.
I am good with that.
(Simpatiku, 7 November 2010 14:26)

What you are saying does not show that Kosovo has a right to declare independence under international law, which is what Trudsaam was asking.

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Simpatiku

pre 13 godina

So why do you think Kosovo has a right to be independant?
(trudsaam, 6 November 2010 15:50)

Because it is my will as well as majority of population will. This will is accepted and recognized by 71 countries.
If this is not sufficient for you then obviously you need to thrash this matter elsewhere.
I am good with that.

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icj1

pre 13 godina

So why do you think Kosovo has a right to be independant?
(trudsaam, 6 November 2010 15:50)

***I*** think ?!!!! Where did you see I've said that ?

I’ve said that Kosovo’s declaration of independence is in accordance with international law; I’ve not said that Kosovo has a right to declare independence under international law.

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trudsaam

pre 13 godina

Ark I, you are really a genius with this idea that historical mistakes must be corrected… How comes we never thought about this before?! We can just return everything to the creator and that will solve not only Kosovo’s issue, but all territorial issues in the world.
(icj1)
-
So why do you think Kosovo has a right to be independant?

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icj1

pre 13 godina

Just because Turkey helped you steal land from Serbs, Greeks, Macedonians etc. doesn't mean that the land belongs to you. You have only been the majority in Kosovo for 100 years, so correcting a historical mistake would be for Serbs to gain control of their land again.
(Ark I, 5 November 2010 16:56)

I fully agree, it should be returned to Serbs. Then, Serbs should return it to whoever was there before them. And the latter, should return it to whoever was there before them. And the latter should return it to whoever was there before them. And the latter should return it to whoever was there before them. And so on… it should be returned to the creator (if it really exists).


In regards to the comment about Albanians living in Kosovo for centuries. Just a little
over 100 years ago, Kosovo had a Serbian majority, and before that, Kosovo
was 80-90% Serbian.

The Albanian population became the majority in 100 years with decade after decade of
intimidation, murder and other criminal activities againsts Serbs and those of other
nationalities. Criminal activities and murder performed by Albanians that increased
severely during the two World Wars, in both cases riding on the coat tails and with
support of the foreign attackers. Between and after those wars, the same criminal
activities continued and again increased in the war last decade.

In addition to the murder and intimidation, Albanians increased their population by
continuing to illegally enter Kosovo from Albania and also having lots of children.

So I guess the moral of the story is if you want to take land from somebody else, you
just need to murder and intimidate them and continue to bring your friends to the land
and have lots of kids, and in a 100 years or so, you can take their land with the help of
whatever oppressor happens to come around at that time.
(Ark I, 5 November 2010 16:56)


It’s nice… I happen to fully agree again. That’s why Albanians should return it to the Serbs because Albanian crimes against the Serbs should not be rewarded with land. Then, the Serbs should return it to X who was there before them, because Serbian crimes against X should not be rewarded with land. And then, X should return it to Y who was there before them, because X’s crimes against Y should not be rewarded with land. And then, Y should return it to Z who was there before them, because Y’s crimes against Z should not be rewarded with land. And so on… the land should be returned to the creator, because those who committed crimes against the creator cannot be rewarded with land.

(note: I don't have all the info needed, so I'm leaving it to others to fill in who X, Y, Z etc... are, unless Serbs have been in Kosovo for 5,000,000,000 years, in which case X, Y and Z do not exist)

Ark I, you are really a genius with this idea that historical mistakes must be corrected… How comes we never thought about this before?! We can just return everything to the creator and that will solve not only Kosovo’s issue, but all territorial issues in the world.

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trudsaam

pre 13 godina

I stopped caring about Kosovo thing.
As its too easy to predict the future.

Kosovo is an American colony, completly support by the US.

The US is about to collpase finacially.

No US no independant Kosovo...simple
(Mladen)
-
You are absolutely right. Great deductive argument. Without the US or EU what can "Kosovo" retain?

They can't even hold their own "government" together. The world knows the truth its only a matter of time, when things in the Balkans start to change dramatically. Something the U.S and EU have been trying to prevent for about 20 years now, will soon come to surface, and no one will be able to do anything about it. Tadic and Josipovic seem to be doing well for a start.

Preporučujem 5 Ne preporučujem 2
Zoran

pre 13 godina

oh no, not again. Somebody that keeps repeating the same thing over and over again is very insecure.
(Agim Kelmendi, 5 November 2010 12:42)
--
You mean like we keep hearing "Kosova" is independent when we all know the real truth?

Preporučujem 15 Ne preporučujem 3
Ark I

pre 13 godina

Johny, so do you think that in a 100 or so years, if Albanians intimidate and murder and drive Serbians out of another part of Serbia and become the majority, that Serbia should give up another piece of their land so as not to anger the thieves that took it?

The Serbs freed Serbia from the Ottoman over 500 years after they attacked and enslaved us, so you think we will just bow down and give up our land to the by-product of Ottoman oppression after only 100 years of Albanian population growth accomplished by intimidation, murder and thievery?

If we bow down to people that think they can take over our land by increasing their population and decreasing the population of the Serbs, then Serbia will eventually cease to exist, because we know that Albanians won't be happy until they take all of Serbia, and even then, they will probably want more. The line has to be drawn somewhere.

Preporučujem 12 Ne preporučujem 4
GjonFusha

pre 13 godina

"A unilateral act cannot turn an area into an independent state"

Sorry FM of Romania but it did. And also is legal according to IC. And this new state is known from 71 other states so far, including most democratic ones. As Romania they are like 8 or nine states that do not like Kosova independence.
As you see FM of Romania we Albanians hold cow from horns not from tale.

Preporučujem 5 Ne preporučujem 12
johny

pre 13 godina

Ark I, stop being bitter dude. Serbia didn't find an empty Kosova. There were people living there prior to any Serb ever setting foot there. If anyone stole it that would be Serbia. You didn't bring any land with you when you came to the Balkans. If you wanna go back in time then lets go back in time. Prior to the Serb arrival, Kosova had 0% Serbs. I repeat 0% Serbs. For the sake of this argument it doesn't matter what they were as long as there was no Serb around.Then at some point you claim you had 80%. If that is not stealing land then nothing is. Just because you went for 0% Serbs to 80% Serb doesn't mean you have the right to steal Kosova. Just using your own logic here. Serbia as a thieve does not have somehow more right to own the place because she sees others as thieves. You're thieves yourselves. Cut this crap already. This ain't ever gonna get you anything back. Its not even an argument.

Serbia can't manage Kosova. Kosova can be more easily managed when 2 million of its inhabitant are made happy than when 5% of them are happy and 95% are angry. The world can easily manage 5% angry in a 2 million population. It can't manage 2 million and growing angry people inside a 7 million country. These are the facts and this is why Serbia can't and won't have Kosova. Also attitudes like your do nothing but reinforce this argument and this fact on a daily basis. Your disdain for Albanians only reinforces the fact that 2 million Albanians will remain angry inside Serbia because people like you disdain them. If you can't see that this is disastrous for everyone including Serbia than you can't be cured from the disease; Serb ultra-nationalism.

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probabis

pre 13 godina

Romania reaffirms stance on Kosovo????hmmmmmmmmmmmm remains to see?? from the beging of the conflict in kosovo , they made and make wrong steps final step ... recognition

Preporučujem 3 Ne preporučujem 12
Hruz

pre 13 godina

So I guess the moral of the story is if you want to take land from somebody else, you
just need to murder and intimidate them and continue to bring your friends to the land
and have lots of kids, and in a 100 years or so, you can take their land with the help of
whatever oppressor happens to come around at that time.
---
(Ark I, 5 November 2010 16:56)

No, there is another way to usurp territories. Just change sides and act like a turncoat in the war an you can take a bite from your neighbour. A little adjustment of borders and there you go. Sounds familiar? These countries are now posing as protectors of int law now :)

Preporučujem 14 Ne preporučujem 4
Mladen

pre 13 godina

I stopped caring about Kosovo thing.
As its too easy to predict the future.

Kosovo is an American colony, completly support by the US.

The US is about to collpase finacially.

No US no independant Kosovo...simple

Preporučujem 22 Ne preporučujem 11
EA

pre 13 godina

"If not then by what right was Serbia invaded and partitioned by the West?" I am sorry to see that you have been sleeping all these years. But to try to wake you up read this summary. I have got more for you if you wish. It is free to read courtesy of B92)) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5165042.stm

You will hopefully realise why West intervened in Serbia.

Preporučujem 8 Ne preporučujem 15
Leonidas

pre 13 godina

You call it "folly" of independente Kosovo, but what would you call forcing more than two million Albanians from Kosovo to be under Serbia's sovereignity/territorial integrity? Easy job for fanatics I believe...what Milosevic did...and back to square one.

(Leonidas, 5 November 2010 12:49)
(EA, 5 November 2010 16:00)

I somehow knew that my comments will hit a nerve with the Albanian posters by challenging their percepption
that Clinton & Blair intervened in kosovo to correct europe's wrong doings against the Albanians.
No wonder EA is calling me a communist amongt others.

I repeat again the US and europe wouldn't give a toss about the Albanians.Kosovo is just a pawn in the western geopolitical game.

As far as kosovo's independence is concerned let me take you back to American civil war.The South's independence was prevented by one of the most brutal wars in history.

My question to you is should Britain and France have militarily intervened in the internal affairs of the US to enable the south to gain its independence?
If not then by what right was Serbia invaded and partitioned by the West?

My answer to the above is no superpower has a legitimate right to partition Serbia.

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EA

pre 13 godina

Leonidas,

Your comments reminds me the communist nomeclatura speeches in Albania many years ago. one of those silly slogans was "we die and not betray our communist principles"...I admire you for taking the role of superjudge to come to a conclusion what is and what isn't in compliance of international law.

"Kosovan "independence"...was a because the world's rogue western states led by the US fancied a piece of real estate (Bondsteel ) and had to dismember Serbia in order to get it.

It is very easy to tell that we live in two different worlds. As a fanatic of old communist times you will never change. I have seen and lived that reality in Albania.

"Make no mistake, the illegal conversion of the province of Kosovo into an 'independent 'state' is a folly of monumental proportions for which Europe will ultimately pay dearly."

I have to disagree totally on that. Europe corrected an historical mistake when drawing the borders left Kosovo and other Albanian's territory outside Albania.

You call it "folly" of independente Kosovo, but what would you call forcing more than two million Albanians from Kosovo to be under Serbia's sovereignity/territorial integrity? Easy job for fanatics I believe...what Milosevic did...and back to square one.

(Leonidas, 5 November 2010 12:49)

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Ark I

pre 13 godina

---
I have to disagree totally on that. Europe corrected an historical mistake when drawing the borders left Kosovo and other Albanian's territory outside Albania.
(EA, 5 November 2010 16:00)
---

Just because Turkey helped you steal land from Serbs, Greeks, Macedonians etc. doesn't mean that the land belongs to you. You have only been the majority in Kosovo for 100 years, so correcting a historical mistake would be for Serbs to gain control of their land again.

As I have said before

---
In regards to the comment about Albanians living in Kosovo for centuries. Just a little
over 100 years ago, Kosovo had a Serbian majority, and before that, Kosovo
was 80-90% Serbian.

The Albanian population became the majority in 100 years with decade after decade of
intimidation, murder and other criminal activities againsts Serbs and those of other
nationalities. Criminal activities and murder performed by Albanians that increased
severely during the two World Wars, in both cases riding on the coat tails and with
support of the foreign attackers. Between and after those wars, the same criminal
activities continued and again increased in the war last decade.

In addition to the murder and intimidation, Albanians increased their population by
continuing to illegally enter Kosovo from Albania and also having lots of children.

So I guess the moral of the story is if you want to take land from somebody else, you
just need to murder and intimidate them and continue to bring your friends to the land
and have lots of kids, and in a 100 years or so, you can take their land with the help of
whatever oppressor happens to come around at that time.
---

Preporučujem 18 Ne preporučujem 6
quasistate

pre 13 godina

Ben, the west could have gotten rid of Milosevic, and not given the Albanians assistance in creating their own state from a piece of Serbia. Leonidas is right, the US wanted a piece of real estate in southern Serbia, and breaking it up made that possible. The Albanians were just a willing tool for the americans. Can you the albanians see that their Kosova is still not a free independent state? The bombers left 11 years ago, and Kosova is still being run by Eulex/NATO/US, and too many worthless NGO's to mention. You Albanians, are being taken for a ride.

Preporučujem 23 Ne preporučujem 8
winston

pre 13 godina

I agree with you, Leonidas. I have stated here numerous times that saving the victimized, drama-queen Kosovo Albanians had nothing to do with the West's "humanitarian intervention". The separatist Albanians, and their orchestrated propaganda, with the assistance of Western intelligence, provided DC/EU with an opportunity to rid the Balkans of Milosevic, split up the remainder of the former Yugoslavia, and establish a valuable geopolitical presence in Southwest Europe. The independence-blinded Albanians were happy to even kill their own, to assist the US in achieving this.
"Somebody that keeps repeating the same thing over and over again is very insecure". . Agim
Sounds like you are describing yourself. BTW, is this guy a relative of yours?
www.reportingproject.net/occrp/index.php/ccwatch/cc-watch-indepth/503-naser-kelmendi-from-kosovo-inmate-to-sarajevo-businessman

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Kosova-USA

pre 13 godina

Baconschi noted that things in Kosovo cannot go back to the way they were, but that Romania hopes Belgrade and Priština will be able to cooperate and normalize relations for the benefit of stability in the Western Balkans, reported Rome-based news agency Apcom.


Reading top paragraph, and when I got to the last, it seems like ths guy is speaking from both sides of his mouth.WHAT A JERK.

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Agim Kelmendi

pre 13 godina

oh no, not again. Somebody that keeps repeating the same thing over and over again is very insecure. Romanian FM knows that it will happened, but he is just blowing hot air for now.

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Leonidas

pre 13 godina

it is a matter of principle", Romanian FM Teodor Baconschi said in Bucharest.

What principle is he talking about? When a country like Serbia broke all Romanian understanding of principles in the break up of former Yugoslavia by engaging in a war, why can't parts of it break these "principles"? So it is not a matter of principle but is a will which I quite understand bear in mind the vast Hungarian majority in Romania. The problem with Romania is that they can not get/understand that there are two different realities Transylvania and Kosovo. It is unfortunate that Romania prematurely entered in the EU.
(EA, 5 November 2010 11:23

The Romanian principle of upholding international law and kosovo's attempted UDI (you call it reality) are totally different.

Kosovan "independence" was a forgone conclusion not because of any western altruistic reasons towards the albanians but because the world's rogue western states led by the US fancied a piece of real estate (Bondsteel ) and had to dismember Serbia in order to get it.

Make no mistake, the illegal conversion of the province of Kosovo into an 'independent 'state' is a folly of monumental proportions for which Europe will ultimately pay dearly.

Preporučujem 39 Ne preporučujem 14
EA

pre 13 godina

"it is a matter of principle", Romanian FM Teodor Baconschi said in Bucharest.

What principle is he talking about? When a country like Serbia broke all Romanian understanding of principles in the break up of former Yugoslavia by engaging in a war, why can't parts of it break these "principles"? So it is not a matter of principle but is a will which I quite understand bear in mind the vast Hungarian majority in Romania. The problem with Romania is that they can not get/understand that there are two different realities Transylvania and Kosovo. It is unfortunate that Romania prematurely entered in the EU.

Preporučujem 11 Ne preporučujem 34
Leonidas

pre 13 godina

it is a matter of principle", Romanian FM Teodor Baconschi said in Bucharest.

What principle is he talking about? When a country like Serbia broke all Romanian understanding of principles in the break up of former Yugoslavia by engaging in a war, why can't parts of it break these "principles"? So it is not a matter of principle but is a will which I quite understand bear in mind the vast Hungarian majority in Romania. The problem with Romania is that they can not get/understand that there are two different realities Transylvania and Kosovo. It is unfortunate that Romania prematurely entered in the EU.
(EA, 5 November 2010 11:23

The Romanian principle of upholding international law and kosovo's attempted UDI (you call it reality) are totally different.

Kosovan "independence" was a forgone conclusion not because of any western altruistic reasons towards the albanians but because the world's rogue western states led by the US fancied a piece of real estate (Bondsteel ) and had to dismember Serbia in order to get it.

Make no mistake, the illegal conversion of the province of Kosovo into an 'independent 'state' is a folly of monumental proportions for which Europe will ultimately pay dearly.

Preporučujem 39 Ne preporučujem 14
Leonidas

pre 13 godina

You call it "folly" of independente Kosovo, but what would you call forcing more than two million Albanians from Kosovo to be under Serbia's sovereignity/territorial integrity? Easy job for fanatics I believe...what Milosevic did...and back to square one.

(Leonidas, 5 November 2010 12:49)
(EA, 5 November 2010 16:00)

I somehow knew that my comments will hit a nerve with the Albanian posters by challenging their percepption
that Clinton & Blair intervened in kosovo to correct europe's wrong doings against the Albanians.
No wonder EA is calling me a communist amongt others.

I repeat again the US and europe wouldn't give a toss about the Albanians.Kosovo is just a pawn in the western geopolitical game.

As far as kosovo's independence is concerned let me take you back to American civil war.The South's independence was prevented by one of the most brutal wars in history.

My question to you is should Britain and France have militarily intervened in the internal affairs of the US to enable the south to gain its independence?
If not then by what right was Serbia invaded and partitioned by the West?

My answer to the above is no superpower has a legitimate right to partition Serbia.

Preporučujem 30 Ne preporučujem 7
quasistate

pre 13 godina

Ben, the west could have gotten rid of Milosevic, and not given the Albanians assistance in creating their own state from a piece of Serbia. Leonidas is right, the US wanted a piece of real estate in southern Serbia, and breaking it up made that possible. The Albanians were just a willing tool for the americans. Can you the albanians see that their Kosova is still not a free independent state? The bombers left 11 years ago, and Kosova is still being run by Eulex/NATO/US, and too many worthless NGO's to mention. You Albanians, are being taken for a ride.

Preporučujem 23 Ne preporučujem 8
Mladen

pre 13 godina

I stopped caring about Kosovo thing.
As its too easy to predict the future.

Kosovo is an American colony, completly support by the US.

The US is about to collpase finacially.

No US no independant Kosovo...simple

Preporučujem 22 Ne preporučujem 11
winston

pre 13 godina

I agree with you, Leonidas. I have stated here numerous times that saving the victimized, drama-queen Kosovo Albanians had nothing to do with the West's "humanitarian intervention". The separatist Albanians, and their orchestrated propaganda, with the assistance of Western intelligence, provided DC/EU with an opportunity to rid the Balkans of Milosevic, split up the remainder of the former Yugoslavia, and establish a valuable geopolitical presence in Southwest Europe. The independence-blinded Albanians were happy to even kill their own, to assist the US in achieving this.
"Somebody that keeps repeating the same thing over and over again is very insecure". . Agim
Sounds like you are describing yourself. BTW, is this guy a relative of yours?
www.reportingproject.net/occrp/index.php/ccwatch/cc-watch-indepth/503-naser-kelmendi-from-kosovo-inmate-to-sarajevo-businessman

Preporučujem 18 Ne preporučujem 8
Ark I

pre 13 godina

---
I have to disagree totally on that. Europe corrected an historical mistake when drawing the borders left Kosovo and other Albanian's territory outside Albania.
(EA, 5 November 2010 16:00)
---

Just because Turkey helped you steal land from Serbs, Greeks, Macedonians etc. doesn't mean that the land belongs to you. You have only been the majority in Kosovo for 100 years, so correcting a historical mistake would be for Serbs to gain control of their land again.

As I have said before

---
In regards to the comment about Albanians living in Kosovo for centuries. Just a little
over 100 years ago, Kosovo had a Serbian majority, and before that, Kosovo
was 80-90% Serbian.

The Albanian population became the majority in 100 years with decade after decade of
intimidation, murder and other criminal activities againsts Serbs and those of other
nationalities. Criminal activities and murder performed by Albanians that increased
severely during the two World Wars, in both cases riding on the coat tails and with
support of the foreign attackers. Between and after those wars, the same criminal
activities continued and again increased in the war last decade.

In addition to the murder and intimidation, Albanians increased their population by
continuing to illegally enter Kosovo from Albania and also having lots of children.

So I guess the moral of the story is if you want to take land from somebody else, you
just need to murder and intimidate them and continue to bring your friends to the land
and have lots of kids, and in a 100 years or so, you can take their land with the help of
whatever oppressor happens to come around at that time.
---

Preporučujem 18 Ne preporučujem 6
Zoran

pre 13 godina

oh no, not again. Somebody that keeps repeating the same thing over and over again is very insecure.
(Agim Kelmendi, 5 November 2010 12:42)
--
You mean like we keep hearing "Kosova" is independent when we all know the real truth?

Preporučujem 15 Ne preporučujem 3
Kosova-USA

pre 13 godina

Baconschi noted that things in Kosovo cannot go back to the way they were, but that Romania hopes Belgrade and Priština will be able to cooperate and normalize relations for the benefit of stability in the Western Balkans, reported Rome-based news agency Apcom.


Reading top paragraph, and when I got to the last, it seems like ths guy is speaking from both sides of his mouth.WHAT A JERK.

Preporučujem 14 Ne preporučujem 31
Hruz

pre 13 godina

So I guess the moral of the story is if you want to take land from somebody else, you
just need to murder and intimidate them and continue to bring your friends to the land
and have lots of kids, and in a 100 years or so, you can take their land with the help of
whatever oppressor happens to come around at that time.
---
(Ark I, 5 November 2010 16:56)

No, there is another way to usurp territories. Just change sides and act like a turncoat in the war an you can take a bite from your neighbour. A little adjustment of borders and there you go. Sounds familiar? These countries are now posing as protectors of int law now :)

Preporučujem 14 Ne preporučujem 4
Agim Kelmendi

pre 13 godina

oh no, not again. Somebody that keeps repeating the same thing over and over again is very insecure. Romanian FM knows that it will happened, but he is just blowing hot air for now.

Preporučujem 13 Ne preporučujem 30
Ark I

pre 13 godina

Johny, so do you think that in a 100 or so years, if Albanians intimidate and murder and drive Serbians out of another part of Serbia and become the majority, that Serbia should give up another piece of their land so as not to anger the thieves that took it?

The Serbs freed Serbia from the Ottoman over 500 years after they attacked and enslaved us, so you think we will just bow down and give up our land to the by-product of Ottoman oppression after only 100 years of Albanian population growth accomplished by intimidation, murder and thievery?

If we bow down to people that think they can take over our land by increasing their population and decreasing the population of the Serbs, then Serbia will eventually cease to exist, because we know that Albanians won't be happy until they take all of Serbia, and even then, they will probably want more. The line has to be drawn somewhere.

Preporučujem 12 Ne preporučujem 4
EA

pre 13 godina

"it is a matter of principle", Romanian FM Teodor Baconschi said in Bucharest.

What principle is he talking about? When a country like Serbia broke all Romanian understanding of principles in the break up of former Yugoslavia by engaging in a war, why can't parts of it break these "principles"? So it is not a matter of principle but is a will which I quite understand bear in mind the vast Hungarian majority in Romania. The problem with Romania is that they can not get/understand that there are two different realities Transylvania and Kosovo. It is unfortunate that Romania prematurely entered in the EU.

Preporučujem 11 Ne preporučujem 34
johny

pre 13 godina

Ark I, stop being bitter dude. Serbia didn't find an empty Kosova. There were people living there prior to any Serb ever setting foot there. If anyone stole it that would be Serbia. You didn't bring any land with you when you came to the Balkans. If you wanna go back in time then lets go back in time. Prior to the Serb arrival, Kosova had 0% Serbs. I repeat 0% Serbs. For the sake of this argument it doesn't matter what they were as long as there was no Serb around.Then at some point you claim you had 80%. If that is not stealing land then nothing is. Just because you went for 0% Serbs to 80% Serb doesn't mean you have the right to steal Kosova. Just using your own logic here. Serbia as a thieve does not have somehow more right to own the place because she sees others as thieves. You're thieves yourselves. Cut this crap already. This ain't ever gonna get you anything back. Its not even an argument.

Serbia can't manage Kosova. Kosova can be more easily managed when 2 million of its inhabitant are made happy than when 5% of them are happy and 95% are angry. The world can easily manage 5% angry in a 2 million population. It can't manage 2 million and growing angry people inside a 7 million country. These are the facts and this is why Serbia can't and won't have Kosova. Also attitudes like your do nothing but reinforce this argument and this fact on a daily basis. Your disdain for Albanians only reinforces the fact that 2 million Albanians will remain angry inside Serbia because people like you disdain them. If you can't see that this is disastrous for everyone including Serbia than you can't be cured from the disease; Serb ultra-nationalism.

Preporučujem 10 Ne preporučujem 13
EA

pre 13 godina

"If not then by what right was Serbia invaded and partitioned by the West?" I am sorry to see that you have been sleeping all these years. But to try to wake you up read this summary. I have got more for you if you wish. It is free to read courtesy of B92)) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5165042.stm

You will hopefully realise why West intervened in Serbia.

Preporučujem 8 Ne preporučujem 15
EA

pre 13 godina

Leonidas,

Your comments reminds me the communist nomeclatura speeches in Albania many years ago. one of those silly slogans was "we die and not betray our communist principles"...I admire you for taking the role of superjudge to come to a conclusion what is and what isn't in compliance of international law.

"Kosovan "independence"...was a because the world's rogue western states led by the US fancied a piece of real estate (Bondsteel ) and had to dismember Serbia in order to get it.

It is very easy to tell that we live in two different worlds. As a fanatic of old communist times you will never change. I have seen and lived that reality in Albania.

"Make no mistake, the illegal conversion of the province of Kosovo into an 'independent 'state' is a folly of monumental proportions for which Europe will ultimately pay dearly."

I have to disagree totally on that. Europe corrected an historical mistake when drawing the borders left Kosovo and other Albanian's territory outside Albania.

You call it "folly" of independente Kosovo, but what would you call forcing more than two million Albanians from Kosovo to be under Serbia's sovereignity/territorial integrity? Easy job for fanatics I believe...what Milosevic did...and back to square one.

(Leonidas, 5 November 2010 12:49)

Preporučujem 6 Ne preporučujem 26
GjonFusha

pre 13 godina

"A unilateral act cannot turn an area into an independent state"

Sorry FM of Romania but it did. And also is legal according to IC. And this new state is known from 71 other states so far, including most democratic ones. As Romania they are like 8 or nine states that do not like Kosova independence.
As you see FM of Romania we Albanians hold cow from horns not from tale.

Preporučujem 5 Ne preporučujem 12
trudsaam

pre 13 godina

I stopped caring about Kosovo thing.
As its too easy to predict the future.

Kosovo is an American colony, completly support by the US.

The US is about to collpase finacially.

No US no independant Kosovo...simple
(Mladen)
-
You are absolutely right. Great deductive argument. Without the US or EU what can "Kosovo" retain?

They can't even hold their own "government" together. The world knows the truth its only a matter of time, when things in the Balkans start to change dramatically. Something the U.S and EU have been trying to prevent for about 20 years now, will soon come to surface, and no one will be able to do anything about it. Tadic and Josipovic seem to be doing well for a start.

Preporučujem 5 Ne preporučujem 2
icj1

pre 13 godina

Just because Turkey helped you steal land from Serbs, Greeks, Macedonians etc. doesn't mean that the land belongs to you. You have only been the majority in Kosovo for 100 years, so correcting a historical mistake would be for Serbs to gain control of their land again.
(Ark I, 5 November 2010 16:56)

I fully agree, it should be returned to Serbs. Then, Serbs should return it to whoever was there before them. And the latter, should return it to whoever was there before them. And the latter should return it to whoever was there before them. And the latter should return it to whoever was there before them. And so on… it should be returned to the creator (if it really exists).


In regards to the comment about Albanians living in Kosovo for centuries. Just a little
over 100 years ago, Kosovo had a Serbian majority, and before that, Kosovo
was 80-90% Serbian.

The Albanian population became the majority in 100 years with decade after decade of
intimidation, murder and other criminal activities againsts Serbs and those of other
nationalities. Criminal activities and murder performed by Albanians that increased
severely during the two World Wars, in both cases riding on the coat tails and with
support of the foreign attackers. Between and after those wars, the same criminal
activities continued and again increased in the war last decade.

In addition to the murder and intimidation, Albanians increased their population by
continuing to illegally enter Kosovo from Albania and also having lots of children.

So I guess the moral of the story is if you want to take land from somebody else, you
just need to murder and intimidate them and continue to bring your friends to the land
and have lots of kids, and in a 100 years or so, you can take their land with the help of
whatever oppressor happens to come around at that time.
(Ark I, 5 November 2010 16:56)


It’s nice… I happen to fully agree again. That’s why Albanians should return it to the Serbs because Albanian crimes against the Serbs should not be rewarded with land. Then, the Serbs should return it to X who was there before them, because Serbian crimes against X should not be rewarded with land. And then, X should return it to Y who was there before them, because X’s crimes against Y should not be rewarded with land. And then, Y should return it to Z who was there before them, because Y’s crimes against Z should not be rewarded with land. And so on… the land should be returned to the creator, because those who committed crimes against the creator cannot be rewarded with land.

(note: I don't have all the info needed, so I'm leaving it to others to fill in who X, Y, Z etc... are, unless Serbs have been in Kosovo for 5,000,000,000 years, in which case X, Y and Z do not exist)

Ark I, you are really a genius with this idea that historical mistakes must be corrected… How comes we never thought about this before?! We can just return everything to the creator and that will solve not only Kosovo’s issue, but all territorial issues in the world.

Preporučujem 4 Ne preporučujem 2
trudsaam

pre 13 godina

Ark I, you are really a genius with this idea that historical mistakes must be corrected… How comes we never thought about this before?! We can just return everything to the creator and that will solve not only Kosovo’s issue, but all territorial issues in the world.
(icj1)
-
So why do you think Kosovo has a right to be independant?

Preporučujem 4 Ne preporučujem 0
probabis

pre 13 godina

Romania reaffirms stance on Kosovo????hmmmmmmmmmmmm remains to see?? from the beging of the conflict in kosovo , they made and make wrong steps final step ... recognition

Preporučujem 3 Ne preporučujem 12
Velibor

pre 13 godina

**********
Johny, so do you think that in a 100 or so years, if Albanians intimidate and murder and drive Serbians out of another part of Serbia and become the majority, that Serbia should give up another piece of their land so as not to anger the thieves that took it?

The Serbs freed Serbia from the Ottoman over 500 years after they attacked and enslaved us, so you think we will just bow down and give up our land to the by-product of Ottoman oppression after only 100 years of Albanian population growth accomplished by intimidation, murder and thievery?

If we bow down to people that think they can take over our land by increasing their population and decreasing the population of the Serbs, then Serbia will eventually cease to exist, because we know that Albanians won't be happy until they take all of Serbia, and even then, they will probably want more. The line has to be drawn somewhere.
(Ark I, 5 November 2010 22:08)
**********

RESPONSE: This comment is most likely the best comment posted on this topic and hits the nail on the head...
Kosovo hasnt even been recognised as an independent country and already they demand more land...however this time its not only from 1 country but 4

Serbia, Greece, Montenegro, and Macedonia...here's the pic of the new map of Albania and some more stuff about it...

http://www.irandefence.net/showthread.php?t=58379

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icj1

pre 13 godina

So why do you think Kosovo has a right to be independant?
(trudsaam, 6 November 2010 15:50)

***I*** think ?!!!! Where did you see I've said that ?

I’ve said that Kosovo’s declaration of independence is in accordance with international law; I’ve not said that Kosovo has a right to declare independence under international law.

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Simpatiku

pre 13 godina

So why do you think Kosovo has a right to be independant?
(trudsaam, 6 November 2010 15:50)

Because it is my will as well as majority of population will. This will is accepted and recognized by 71 countries.
If this is not sufficient for you then obviously you need to thrash this matter elsewhere.
I am good with that.

Preporučujem 0 Ne preporučujem 1
icj1

pre 13 godina

So why do you think Kosovo has a right to be independant?
(trudsaam, 6 November 2010 15:50)

Because it is my will as well as majority of population will. This will is accepted and recognized by 71 countries.
If this is not sufficient for you then obviously you need to thrash this matter elsewhere.
I am good with that.
(Simpatiku, 7 November 2010 14:26)

What you are saying does not show that Kosovo has a right to declare independence under international law, which is what Trudsaam was asking.

Preporučujem 0 Ne preporučujem 1
icj1

pre 13 godina

Kosovo hasnt even been recognised as an independent country
(Velibor, 8 November 2010 16:15)

Qualify your statement! By whom ?

Only very few countries (probably not more than 20) have declared that they don't recognize Kosovo. 71 have declared that they do recognize Kosovo. A significant number of others have not declared anything (neither recognizing; nor not-recognizing).

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Ark I

pre 13 godina

---
What you are saying does not show that Kosovo has a right to declare independence under international law, which is what Trudsaam was asking.
(icj1, 7 November 2010 23:52)
---

No, Trudsaam wasn't asking if Kosovo has a right to declare independence, that was the foolish question Tadic's crew asked. Trudsaam was asking the more appropriate question of "Why do you think Kosovo has a right to be independant?"). I thought that was obvious from his question, but since you didn't get it I will clarify. Declaring independence according to the international court of "justice" does not equate to being independent, it only means that people said the words "we are independent". Whereas Trudsaam's question doesn't have that technical loophole that albanian and western propaganda like to exploit.

Preporučujem 0 Ne preporučujem 0
icj1

pre 13 godina

Trudsaam was asking the more appropriate question of "Why do you think Kosovo has a right to be independant?").
(Ark I, 9 November 2010 16:33)

No, that question is wrong, because I nowhere said that “I think Kosovo has a right to be independent”. The correct question would have been “what do you think…” instead of putting somebody’s else thoughts in my head.

If that’s what he meant, then here is what I think. Under Serbian law, Kosovo does not have a right to be independent. Under international law, I have not yet formed a definitive opinion; it could be yes, it could be no… There are arguments on both sides. I leaned more towards the no before the ICJ decision and I said that in this site, but after reading the dissenting opinion of Judge Cancado Trindade, I now lean more towards the yes. Anyway it’s something that’s irrelevant now for legality or illegality determination in Kosovo’s case – so we can discuss it for academic purposes if you want.

Indeed ICJ said that “is not required by the question it has been asked to take a position on whether international law conferred a positive entitlement on Kosovo unilaterally to declare its independence”. After saying the above, the Court indeed solved the legality issue without having to deal at all with whether a right existed or not. To remove any doubt about that even for dummies, the Court contrasted it with the famous Quebec opinion of the Supreme Court of Canada. And that case WAS about the “right”. So ICJ said:

“The question put to the Supreme Court of Canada inquired whether there was a right to “effect secession”, and whether there was a rule of international law which conferred a positive entitlement on any of the organs named. By contrast, the General Assembly has asked whether the declaration of independence was “in accordance with” international law”

So what did the ICJ have to do to answer the question about Kosovo ? “The answer to that question turns on whether or not the applicable international law prohibited the declaration of independence” so it did not care at all about right or no right. “The task which the Court is called upon to perform is to determine whether or not the declaration of independence was adopted in violation of international law”


I thought that was obvious from his question, but since you didn't get it I will clarify.
(Ark I, 9 November 2010 16:33)

No, I did not get it because I don’t remember having said anywhere what he said that I thought.


Declaring independence according to the international court of "justice" does not equate to being independent,
(Ark I, 9 November 2010 16:33)

The court said declaring independence was not illegal. Full stop. The rest are your words, which I agree with. The Court provided the legal basis under int’l law for the independence (so de-jure Kosovo is now independent). That of course does not make an entity de-facto independent. Whether something is de-facto independent or not, that’s determined from the reality on the ground, not from paperwork. So the question is who, de facto, has the final word in Kosovo ? Serbia says UNMIK is in charge; Kosovo says it’s Kosovo’s government. So, it appears all parties agree that Serbia is not in charge and thus Kosovo is de-facto independent from Serbia (and it’s been so for more than 10 years now). Whether it is de-facto independent from UNMIK or not, here the opinions diverge and we need to consider more facts about that.


it only means that people said the words "we are independent".
(Ark I, 9 November 2010 16:33)

And, continue the sentence, they did so legally. Which in turn means that Kosovo’s Constitution, which is based on those words, is legal. Which is turn means that Kosovo’s government, which is based on the Constitution, is legal. Which in turn means that all decisions of Kosovo’s government taken in accordance with the Constitution are legal, and so on. So yes, those few words declared legally, make legal a lot of things.


Whereas Trudsaam's question doesn't have that technical loophole that albanian and western propaganda like to exploit.
(Ark I, 9 November 2010 16:33)

As explained above, Trudsaam question was based on the false assumption that I think that Kosovo has the right to be independent. So it was not a matter of “technical loophole”. The whole question was a hole.

And I’m not sure what is the loophole that Albanian and western propaganda like to exploit. The Court, against all expectations, was crystal clear in answering the question: “the declaration of independence of Kosovo adopted on 17 February 2008 did not violate international law”. It did not leave any question or doubt as far as the legality is concerned.

Preporučujem 0 Ne preporučujem 0
EA

pre 13 godina

"it is a matter of principle", Romanian FM Teodor Baconschi said in Bucharest.

What principle is he talking about? When a country like Serbia broke all Romanian understanding of principles in the break up of former Yugoslavia by engaging in a war, why can't parts of it break these "principles"? So it is not a matter of principle but is a will which I quite understand bear in mind the vast Hungarian majority in Romania. The problem with Romania is that they can not get/understand that there are two different realities Transylvania and Kosovo. It is unfortunate that Romania prematurely entered in the EU.

Preporučujem 11 Ne preporučujem 34
Kosova-USA

pre 13 godina

Baconschi noted that things in Kosovo cannot go back to the way they were, but that Romania hopes Belgrade and Priština will be able to cooperate and normalize relations for the benefit of stability in the Western Balkans, reported Rome-based news agency Apcom.


Reading top paragraph, and when I got to the last, it seems like ths guy is speaking from both sides of his mouth.WHAT A JERK.

Preporučujem 14 Ne preporučujem 31
Agim Kelmendi

pre 13 godina

oh no, not again. Somebody that keeps repeating the same thing over and over again is very insecure. Romanian FM knows that it will happened, but he is just blowing hot air for now.

Preporučujem 13 Ne preporučujem 30
EA

pre 13 godina

Leonidas,

Your comments reminds me the communist nomeclatura speeches in Albania many years ago. one of those silly slogans was "we die and not betray our communist principles"...I admire you for taking the role of superjudge to come to a conclusion what is and what isn't in compliance of international law.

"Kosovan "independence"...was a because the world's rogue western states led by the US fancied a piece of real estate (Bondsteel ) and had to dismember Serbia in order to get it.

It is very easy to tell that we live in two different worlds. As a fanatic of old communist times you will never change. I have seen and lived that reality in Albania.

"Make no mistake, the illegal conversion of the province of Kosovo into an 'independent 'state' is a folly of monumental proportions for which Europe will ultimately pay dearly."

I have to disagree totally on that. Europe corrected an historical mistake when drawing the borders left Kosovo and other Albanian's territory outside Albania.

You call it "folly" of independente Kosovo, but what would you call forcing more than two million Albanians from Kosovo to be under Serbia's sovereignity/territorial integrity? Easy job for fanatics I believe...what Milosevic did...and back to square one.

(Leonidas, 5 November 2010 12:49)

Preporučujem 6 Ne preporučujem 26
EA

pre 13 godina

"If not then by what right was Serbia invaded and partitioned by the West?" I am sorry to see that you have been sleeping all these years. But to try to wake you up read this summary. I have got more for you if you wish. It is free to read courtesy of B92)) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5165042.stm

You will hopefully realise why West intervened in Serbia.

Preporučujem 8 Ne preporučujem 15
Leonidas

pre 13 godina

it is a matter of principle", Romanian FM Teodor Baconschi said in Bucharest.

What principle is he talking about? When a country like Serbia broke all Romanian understanding of principles in the break up of former Yugoslavia by engaging in a war, why can't parts of it break these "principles"? So it is not a matter of principle but is a will which I quite understand bear in mind the vast Hungarian majority in Romania. The problem with Romania is that they can not get/understand that there are two different realities Transylvania and Kosovo. It is unfortunate that Romania prematurely entered in the EU.
(EA, 5 November 2010 11:23

The Romanian principle of upholding international law and kosovo's attempted UDI (you call it reality) are totally different.

Kosovan "independence" was a forgone conclusion not because of any western altruistic reasons towards the albanians but because the world's rogue western states led by the US fancied a piece of real estate (Bondsteel ) and had to dismember Serbia in order to get it.

Make no mistake, the illegal conversion of the province of Kosovo into an 'independent 'state' is a folly of monumental proportions for which Europe will ultimately pay dearly.

Preporučujem 39 Ne preporučujem 14
johny

pre 13 godina

Ark I, stop being bitter dude. Serbia didn't find an empty Kosova. There were people living there prior to any Serb ever setting foot there. If anyone stole it that would be Serbia. You didn't bring any land with you when you came to the Balkans. If you wanna go back in time then lets go back in time. Prior to the Serb arrival, Kosova had 0% Serbs. I repeat 0% Serbs. For the sake of this argument it doesn't matter what they were as long as there was no Serb around.Then at some point you claim you had 80%. If that is not stealing land then nothing is. Just because you went for 0% Serbs to 80% Serb doesn't mean you have the right to steal Kosova. Just using your own logic here. Serbia as a thieve does not have somehow more right to own the place because she sees others as thieves. You're thieves yourselves. Cut this crap already. This ain't ever gonna get you anything back. Its not even an argument.

Serbia can't manage Kosova. Kosova can be more easily managed when 2 million of its inhabitant are made happy than when 5% of them are happy and 95% are angry. The world can easily manage 5% angry in a 2 million population. It can't manage 2 million and growing angry people inside a 7 million country. These are the facts and this is why Serbia can't and won't have Kosova. Also attitudes like your do nothing but reinforce this argument and this fact on a daily basis. Your disdain for Albanians only reinforces the fact that 2 million Albanians will remain angry inside Serbia because people like you disdain them. If you can't see that this is disastrous for everyone including Serbia than you can't be cured from the disease; Serb ultra-nationalism.

Preporučujem 10 Ne preporučujem 13
probabis

pre 13 godina

Romania reaffirms stance on Kosovo????hmmmmmmmmmmmm remains to see?? from the beging of the conflict in kosovo , they made and make wrong steps final step ... recognition

Preporučujem 3 Ne preporučujem 12
GjonFusha

pre 13 godina

"A unilateral act cannot turn an area into an independent state"

Sorry FM of Romania but it did. And also is legal according to IC. And this new state is known from 71 other states so far, including most democratic ones. As Romania they are like 8 or nine states that do not like Kosova independence.
As you see FM of Romania we Albanians hold cow from horns not from tale.

Preporučujem 5 Ne preporučujem 12
Mladen

pre 13 godina

I stopped caring about Kosovo thing.
As its too easy to predict the future.

Kosovo is an American colony, completly support by the US.

The US is about to collpase finacially.

No US no independant Kosovo...simple

Preporučujem 22 Ne preporučujem 11
winston

pre 13 godina

I agree with you, Leonidas. I have stated here numerous times that saving the victimized, drama-queen Kosovo Albanians had nothing to do with the West's "humanitarian intervention". The separatist Albanians, and their orchestrated propaganda, with the assistance of Western intelligence, provided DC/EU with an opportunity to rid the Balkans of Milosevic, split up the remainder of the former Yugoslavia, and establish a valuable geopolitical presence in Southwest Europe. The independence-blinded Albanians were happy to even kill their own, to assist the US in achieving this.
"Somebody that keeps repeating the same thing over and over again is very insecure". . Agim
Sounds like you are describing yourself. BTW, is this guy a relative of yours?
www.reportingproject.net/occrp/index.php/ccwatch/cc-watch-indepth/503-naser-kelmendi-from-kosovo-inmate-to-sarajevo-businessman

Preporučujem 18 Ne preporučujem 8
quasistate

pre 13 godina

Ben, the west could have gotten rid of Milosevic, and not given the Albanians assistance in creating their own state from a piece of Serbia. Leonidas is right, the US wanted a piece of real estate in southern Serbia, and breaking it up made that possible. The Albanians were just a willing tool for the americans. Can you the albanians see that their Kosova is still not a free independent state? The bombers left 11 years ago, and Kosova is still being run by Eulex/NATO/US, and too many worthless NGO's to mention. You Albanians, are being taken for a ride.

Preporučujem 23 Ne preporučujem 8
Leonidas

pre 13 godina

You call it "folly" of independente Kosovo, but what would you call forcing more than two million Albanians from Kosovo to be under Serbia's sovereignity/territorial integrity? Easy job for fanatics I believe...what Milosevic did...and back to square one.

(Leonidas, 5 November 2010 12:49)
(EA, 5 November 2010 16:00)

I somehow knew that my comments will hit a nerve with the Albanian posters by challenging their percepption
that Clinton & Blair intervened in kosovo to correct europe's wrong doings against the Albanians.
No wonder EA is calling me a communist amongt others.

I repeat again the US and europe wouldn't give a toss about the Albanians.Kosovo is just a pawn in the western geopolitical game.

As far as kosovo's independence is concerned let me take you back to American civil war.The South's independence was prevented by one of the most brutal wars in history.

My question to you is should Britain and France have militarily intervened in the internal affairs of the US to enable the south to gain its independence?
If not then by what right was Serbia invaded and partitioned by the West?

My answer to the above is no superpower has a legitimate right to partition Serbia.

Preporučujem 30 Ne preporučujem 7
Ark I

pre 13 godina

---
I have to disagree totally on that. Europe corrected an historical mistake when drawing the borders left Kosovo and other Albanian's territory outside Albania.
(EA, 5 November 2010 16:00)
---

Just because Turkey helped you steal land from Serbs, Greeks, Macedonians etc. doesn't mean that the land belongs to you. You have only been the majority in Kosovo for 100 years, so correcting a historical mistake would be for Serbs to gain control of their land again.

As I have said before

---
In regards to the comment about Albanians living in Kosovo for centuries. Just a little
over 100 years ago, Kosovo had a Serbian majority, and before that, Kosovo
was 80-90% Serbian.

The Albanian population became the majority in 100 years with decade after decade of
intimidation, murder and other criminal activities againsts Serbs and those of other
nationalities. Criminal activities and murder performed by Albanians that increased
severely during the two World Wars, in both cases riding on the coat tails and with
support of the foreign attackers. Between and after those wars, the same criminal
activities continued and again increased in the war last decade.

In addition to the murder and intimidation, Albanians increased their population by
continuing to illegally enter Kosovo from Albania and also having lots of children.

So I guess the moral of the story is if you want to take land from somebody else, you
just need to murder and intimidate them and continue to bring your friends to the land
and have lots of kids, and in a 100 years or so, you can take their land with the help of
whatever oppressor happens to come around at that time.
---

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Hruz

pre 13 godina

So I guess the moral of the story is if you want to take land from somebody else, you
just need to murder and intimidate them and continue to bring your friends to the land
and have lots of kids, and in a 100 years or so, you can take their land with the help of
whatever oppressor happens to come around at that time.
---
(Ark I, 5 November 2010 16:56)

No, there is another way to usurp territories. Just change sides and act like a turncoat in the war an you can take a bite from your neighbour. A little adjustment of borders and there you go. Sounds familiar? These countries are now posing as protectors of int law now :)

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Ark I

pre 13 godina

Johny, so do you think that in a 100 or so years, if Albanians intimidate and murder and drive Serbians out of another part of Serbia and become the majority, that Serbia should give up another piece of their land so as not to anger the thieves that took it?

The Serbs freed Serbia from the Ottoman over 500 years after they attacked and enslaved us, so you think we will just bow down and give up our land to the by-product of Ottoman oppression after only 100 years of Albanian population growth accomplished by intimidation, murder and thievery?

If we bow down to people that think they can take over our land by increasing their population and decreasing the population of the Serbs, then Serbia will eventually cease to exist, because we know that Albanians won't be happy until they take all of Serbia, and even then, they will probably want more. The line has to be drawn somewhere.

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Zoran

pre 13 godina

oh no, not again. Somebody that keeps repeating the same thing over and over again is very insecure.
(Agim Kelmendi, 5 November 2010 12:42)
--
You mean like we keep hearing "Kosova" is independent when we all know the real truth?

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icj1

pre 13 godina

So why do you think Kosovo has a right to be independant?
(trudsaam, 6 November 2010 15:50)

***I*** think ?!!!! Where did you see I've said that ?

I’ve said that Kosovo’s declaration of independence is in accordance with international law; I’ve not said that Kosovo has a right to declare independence under international law.

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trudsaam

pre 13 godina

I stopped caring about Kosovo thing.
As its too easy to predict the future.

Kosovo is an American colony, completly support by the US.

The US is about to collpase finacially.

No US no independant Kosovo...simple
(Mladen)
-
You are absolutely right. Great deductive argument. Without the US or EU what can "Kosovo" retain?

They can't even hold their own "government" together. The world knows the truth its only a matter of time, when things in the Balkans start to change dramatically. Something the U.S and EU have been trying to prevent for about 20 years now, will soon come to surface, and no one will be able to do anything about it. Tadic and Josipovic seem to be doing well for a start.

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icj1

pre 13 godina

Just because Turkey helped you steal land from Serbs, Greeks, Macedonians etc. doesn't mean that the land belongs to you. You have only been the majority in Kosovo for 100 years, so correcting a historical mistake would be for Serbs to gain control of their land again.
(Ark I, 5 November 2010 16:56)

I fully agree, it should be returned to Serbs. Then, Serbs should return it to whoever was there before them. And the latter, should return it to whoever was there before them. And the latter should return it to whoever was there before them. And the latter should return it to whoever was there before them. And so on… it should be returned to the creator (if it really exists).


In regards to the comment about Albanians living in Kosovo for centuries. Just a little
over 100 years ago, Kosovo had a Serbian majority, and before that, Kosovo
was 80-90% Serbian.

The Albanian population became the majority in 100 years with decade after decade of
intimidation, murder and other criminal activities againsts Serbs and those of other
nationalities. Criminal activities and murder performed by Albanians that increased
severely during the two World Wars, in both cases riding on the coat tails and with
support of the foreign attackers. Between and after those wars, the same criminal
activities continued and again increased in the war last decade.

In addition to the murder and intimidation, Albanians increased their population by
continuing to illegally enter Kosovo from Albania and also having lots of children.

So I guess the moral of the story is if you want to take land from somebody else, you
just need to murder and intimidate them and continue to bring your friends to the land
and have lots of kids, and in a 100 years or so, you can take their land with the help of
whatever oppressor happens to come around at that time.
(Ark I, 5 November 2010 16:56)


It’s nice… I happen to fully agree again. That’s why Albanians should return it to the Serbs because Albanian crimes against the Serbs should not be rewarded with land. Then, the Serbs should return it to X who was there before them, because Serbian crimes against X should not be rewarded with land. And then, X should return it to Y who was there before them, because X’s crimes against Y should not be rewarded with land. And then, Y should return it to Z who was there before them, because Y’s crimes against Z should not be rewarded with land. And so on… the land should be returned to the creator, because those who committed crimes against the creator cannot be rewarded with land.

(note: I don't have all the info needed, so I'm leaving it to others to fill in who X, Y, Z etc... are, unless Serbs have been in Kosovo for 5,000,000,000 years, in which case X, Y and Z do not exist)

Ark I, you are really a genius with this idea that historical mistakes must be corrected… How comes we never thought about this before?! We can just return everything to the creator and that will solve not only Kosovo’s issue, but all territorial issues in the world.

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Simpatiku

pre 13 godina

So why do you think Kosovo has a right to be independant?
(trudsaam, 6 November 2010 15:50)

Because it is my will as well as majority of population will. This will is accepted and recognized by 71 countries.
If this is not sufficient for you then obviously you need to thrash this matter elsewhere.
I am good with that.

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icj1

pre 13 godina

So why do you think Kosovo has a right to be independant?
(trudsaam, 6 November 2010 15:50)

Because it is my will as well as majority of population will. This will is accepted and recognized by 71 countries.
If this is not sufficient for you then obviously you need to thrash this matter elsewhere.
I am good with that.
(Simpatiku, 7 November 2010 14:26)

What you are saying does not show that Kosovo has a right to declare independence under international law, which is what Trudsaam was asking.

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trudsaam

pre 13 godina

Ark I, you are really a genius with this idea that historical mistakes must be corrected… How comes we never thought about this before?! We can just return everything to the creator and that will solve not only Kosovo’s issue, but all territorial issues in the world.
(icj1)
-
So why do you think Kosovo has a right to be independant?

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Velibor

pre 13 godina

**********
Johny, so do you think that in a 100 or so years, if Albanians intimidate and murder and drive Serbians out of another part of Serbia and become the majority, that Serbia should give up another piece of their land so as not to anger the thieves that took it?

The Serbs freed Serbia from the Ottoman over 500 years after they attacked and enslaved us, so you think we will just bow down and give up our land to the by-product of Ottoman oppression after only 100 years of Albanian population growth accomplished by intimidation, murder and thievery?

If we bow down to people that think they can take over our land by increasing their population and decreasing the population of the Serbs, then Serbia will eventually cease to exist, because we know that Albanians won't be happy until they take all of Serbia, and even then, they will probably want more. The line has to be drawn somewhere.
(Ark I, 5 November 2010 22:08)
**********

RESPONSE: This comment is most likely the best comment posted on this topic and hits the nail on the head...
Kosovo hasnt even been recognised as an independent country and already they demand more land...however this time its not only from 1 country but 4

Serbia, Greece, Montenegro, and Macedonia...here's the pic of the new map of Albania and some more stuff about it...

http://www.irandefence.net/showthread.php?t=58379

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icj1

pre 13 godina

Kosovo hasnt even been recognised as an independent country
(Velibor, 8 November 2010 16:15)

Qualify your statement! By whom ?

Only very few countries (probably not more than 20) have declared that they don't recognize Kosovo. 71 have declared that they do recognize Kosovo. A significant number of others have not declared anything (neither recognizing; nor not-recognizing).

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Ark I

pre 13 godina

---
What you are saying does not show that Kosovo has a right to declare independence under international law, which is what Trudsaam was asking.
(icj1, 7 November 2010 23:52)
---

No, Trudsaam wasn't asking if Kosovo has a right to declare independence, that was the foolish question Tadic's crew asked. Trudsaam was asking the more appropriate question of "Why do you think Kosovo has a right to be independant?"). I thought that was obvious from his question, but since you didn't get it I will clarify. Declaring independence according to the international court of "justice" does not equate to being independent, it only means that people said the words "we are independent". Whereas Trudsaam's question doesn't have that technical loophole that albanian and western propaganda like to exploit.

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icj1

pre 13 godina

Trudsaam was asking the more appropriate question of "Why do you think Kosovo has a right to be independant?").
(Ark I, 9 November 2010 16:33)

No, that question is wrong, because I nowhere said that “I think Kosovo has a right to be independent”. The correct question would have been “what do you think…” instead of putting somebody’s else thoughts in my head.

If that’s what he meant, then here is what I think. Under Serbian law, Kosovo does not have a right to be independent. Under international law, I have not yet formed a definitive opinion; it could be yes, it could be no… There are arguments on both sides. I leaned more towards the no before the ICJ decision and I said that in this site, but after reading the dissenting opinion of Judge Cancado Trindade, I now lean more towards the yes. Anyway it’s something that’s irrelevant now for legality or illegality determination in Kosovo’s case – so we can discuss it for academic purposes if you want.

Indeed ICJ said that “is not required by the question it has been asked to take a position on whether international law conferred a positive entitlement on Kosovo unilaterally to declare its independence”. After saying the above, the Court indeed solved the legality issue without having to deal at all with whether a right existed or not. To remove any doubt about that even for dummies, the Court contrasted it with the famous Quebec opinion of the Supreme Court of Canada. And that case WAS about the “right”. So ICJ said:

“The question put to the Supreme Court of Canada inquired whether there was a right to “effect secession”, and whether there was a rule of international law which conferred a positive entitlement on any of the organs named. By contrast, the General Assembly has asked whether the declaration of independence was “in accordance with” international law”

So what did the ICJ have to do to answer the question about Kosovo ? “The answer to that question turns on whether or not the applicable international law prohibited the declaration of independence” so it did not care at all about right or no right. “The task which the Court is called upon to perform is to determine whether or not the declaration of independence was adopted in violation of international law”


I thought that was obvious from his question, but since you didn't get it I will clarify.
(Ark I, 9 November 2010 16:33)

No, I did not get it because I don’t remember having said anywhere what he said that I thought.


Declaring independence according to the international court of "justice" does not equate to being independent,
(Ark I, 9 November 2010 16:33)

The court said declaring independence was not illegal. Full stop. The rest are your words, which I agree with. The Court provided the legal basis under int’l law for the independence (so de-jure Kosovo is now independent). That of course does not make an entity de-facto independent. Whether something is de-facto independent or not, that’s determined from the reality on the ground, not from paperwork. So the question is who, de facto, has the final word in Kosovo ? Serbia says UNMIK is in charge; Kosovo says it’s Kosovo’s government. So, it appears all parties agree that Serbia is not in charge and thus Kosovo is de-facto independent from Serbia (and it’s been so for more than 10 years now). Whether it is de-facto independent from UNMIK or not, here the opinions diverge and we need to consider more facts about that.


it only means that people said the words "we are independent".
(Ark I, 9 November 2010 16:33)

And, continue the sentence, they did so legally. Which in turn means that Kosovo’s Constitution, which is based on those words, is legal. Which is turn means that Kosovo’s government, which is based on the Constitution, is legal. Which in turn means that all decisions of Kosovo’s government taken in accordance with the Constitution are legal, and so on. So yes, those few words declared legally, make legal a lot of things.


Whereas Trudsaam's question doesn't have that technical loophole that albanian and western propaganda like to exploit.
(Ark I, 9 November 2010 16:33)

As explained above, Trudsaam question was based on the false assumption that I think that Kosovo has the right to be independent. So it was not a matter of “technical loophole”. The whole question was a hole.

And I’m not sure what is the loophole that Albanian and western propaganda like to exploit. The Court, against all expectations, was crystal clear in answering the question: “the declaration of independence of Kosovo adopted on 17 February 2008 did not violate international law”. It did not leave any question or doubt as far as the legality is concerned.

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