"NATO is only in Kosovo for Camp Bondsteel and not because of Milosevic or the Albanians."
(sj, 28 October 2010 23:55)
Again, the Camp Bondsteel story! NATO has real big (air-)bases in Italy and the Turkey. There are several NATO members like Greece, Romania, even Croatia, in the Balkan region.
There's really no need for NATO to have an addtional base - especially not in a small, unstable country(?) like Kosovo.
You keep reciting this same erroneous statistic. Your own source, the Amnesty International Report, states this is the percentage of unemployment for Roma in Kosovo.
Unemployment is high, but 97 out of every 100 people are not jobless. A simple walk down the streets of Pristina will validate that.
(Top, 28 October 2010 16:37)
You are correct that NATO did not directly participate in Iraq but it did support the US invasion via other means such as logistics and transportion. To do justice to any statement on this forum you would need a couple of pages, but B92 edits lengthy posts so brevity is essential and sometimes the wrong message is sent out as a result.
If you look at NATO itself you will find that it has a political arm under none other than Jamie Shea, Director, Policy Planning. The fact that the west did not force Serbia to recognize an independent Kosovo at the very early stages was a huge tactical error. Simply speaking, by 2001 the US was embroiled in Afghanistan then Iraq and by 2010 both wars became a catastrophic loss in the case of Iraq to the US and Afghanistan to the US and its NATO allies.
You see NATO is as a separate arm from the political machinations of the west – that’s incorrect, it only an extension of that arm. In 2010 NATO cannot force Serbia to recognize an independent Kosovo. It has become a stalemate. Now you have the Russians in Nis and opening up a base in Montenegro; this will further stop any lasting resolution in the region. It’s all to do with stopping NATO from expanding.
Talks between Belgrade and Pristina had to occur because the US/EU cannot support Kosovo and now seeks some form of “economic reintegration” with Serbia so that the Albos can find work – Kosovo has 97% unemployment and the EU wants to return about 200 000 Albos back to Kosovo. The EU will not provide Kosovo with visa free travel otherwise why send the Albos back – whether this was intentional or not, but Kosovo has turned out to be a prison for the Albos.
NATO is only in Kosovo for Camp Bondsteel and not because of Milosevic or the Albanians.
For 12 years it could not make Serbia recognise an “independent Kosovo” and after 2 catastrophic losses i.e. Iraq and Afghanistan you think that NATO is capable of doing something even remotely close to 1999? (sj, 27 October 2010 23:22)
Yes, sure NATO would be capable of that. Why not? Compared to Afghanistan, it's peanuts. And mentioning Iraq? What has NATO do do with Iraq? Do you mean the small training mission with some 100 soldiers teaching the Iraqi forces? But there's no reason for it, there's no Milosevic any more breaking up wars in EX-YU. And why sould NATO 'make' Serbia recognize Kosovo? That's something political, totally outside the scope of NATO. What a misconception.
there is nothing, simply nothing that can prevent this.
but I think the time will come that the K-albanians, or let´s rather say the rather smart ones among them, will come to terms with reality, and find a dialogue and compromise with the one and only real state, they are living in.
That's right. Keep spending your citizen's tax dollars to maintain a mafia-run drug-based government. That's how the citizens of NATO countries love to spend their money - on somebody else as a gift. Of course, the citizens of NATO countries love even better to line the pockets of criminals like Shea...The people there will one day wake up and realize the disaster known as Albanian Kosovo.
"Jamie Shea, I didn't know this lying propagandist was still around. He is Serbia's enemy number 5 or 6, right after the Clintons, Blair, Albright, and Clarke.
(winston, 27 October 2010 16:22)"
What happeneded to Kucan, Izetbegovic, Tudjman or Susak? All these enemies and there are limits to how paranoid a person can be - decisions decisions - what is a self-respecting Greater Serb nationalist to do?
That is the problem with having an enemy-centric view of the world in order to garner internal solidarity, as opposed to a aspirational model of solidarity.
"He is the NATO mouth piece that fabricated all those numbers in Kosovo in '99, "Possibly 100,000 murdered Albanians", "hundreds of Albanians thrown down mine shafts by evil Serbs, and so on, before the oh so noble "Humanitarian Intervention". He was one of the biggest cheerleaders for bombing the former YU, and with made-up numbers and scerios.
(winston, 27 October 2010 16:22)"
What was NATO to do given the precedent of Serbia's actions in the wars in Bosnia and Croatia (esp w.r.t. Srebrenica and Dubrovnik)?
Europe couldn't sit around for 5 years like they did in Bosnia and do nothing to prevent the war crimes or destruction of civil and social infrastructure that are a highly foreseeable consequence of such a war.
The UN are not competent in such interventions, so it was up to NATO, especially given that it involved its own back yard. NATO had to weigh the consequences of intervention in terms of collateral damage with the consequences of non-intervention.
I believe that on balance, NATO made the right decision in intervening.
For all the protestations from Serbs, they are fortunate to have had NATO bombing them and not Serbs - cf the experience of cities such as Sarajevo, Vukovar, Gospic, Karlovac, Osijek, Vinkovci and Dubrovnik.
As for cheer-leading, you can't tell me that champagne bottles weren't popping throughout the Balkans and Eastern Europe?
"When NATO have this liar, who was never made accountable for his hysterical rantings and false accounts, as a Director of Policy Planning, it should tell everyone what kind of despicable organization it is. Macedonia would be insane to join this exploitive, evil club, who's agenda is to rule the world. [link]
(winston, 27 October 2010 16:22)"
Interesting article. I don't believe it is NATO's agenda to rule the world - I think this is hyperboli. Often, countries look to the US to be a sort of global policeman and often criticise the US for being selective when it plays policeman. But there was one comment that Pavel Zolotarev made that was interesting and it related to notion of NATO replacing the UN. In terms of civil issues, this is wrong - the UN will still have important role to play w.r.t. trade, health and legal issues. But the UN does not have the capacity or the competence for military intervention and peace keeping (cf UN safe havens in Bosnia, UN mission in Rwanda etc). That is something that regional structures such as NATO or the African Union call fill in for. Certainly he is right that there is the risk of NATO becoming an instrument of US foreign policy, but as the British, Dutch withdrawal from Afghanistan, and the British, Danish etc withdrawal from Iraq, the Greek objection to Macedonia joining NATO because of the country's name show that there will be limits to US influence and NATO still has plenty of room for internal dissent.
This liar has always misunderstood the Balkans as Serbia misunderstands the EU, for NATO and the EU are intertwined. NATO bomber Serbia and with their EU and US masters ripped Yugoslavia apart, all to insure Muslim control over a large swath of the country. NATO is no friend to Slavs but neither is the EU. Must Serbia cease to exist before this becomes obvious?
I just love it. Do you guys remeber , becasue I a have a vivid memory when Mr. Shea used to say to Milosevic, that I have the power switch and I can turn your lights on and off in Belgrade at will.
(Agim Kelmendi, 27 October 2010 19:3
This is not 1999, but I would like to see NATO try that one again, if it could. For 12 years it could not make Serbia recognise an “independent Kosovo” and after 2 catastrophic losses i.e. Iraq and Afghanistan you think that NATO is capable of doing something even remotely close to 1999? NATO, in the words of one western analyst, “is nothing more than more than a think tank in 2010. NATO is now only capable of working as prison guards in Kosovo. Its military prowess has been proven to be limited at best”.
Have a good look at Shea’s title, Director Policy Planning – If you have ever worked in Government you would automatically see that NATO is a beaurocray and not a fighting organization. For your edification Jamie is too busy sucking up to the Russians now to be even bothered with the Albos. The only lights he switches on or off is for Vladimir Putin and asks “more wine with your dinner sir”?
It was Jamie and lads that killed 10,000 Albos with their bombing in Kosovo not the Serbs. The US defence sec, William cohen, refused Wesley Clarke a parade in NY for the so called Kosovo victory because he was horrified that the Serb army was intact, ha, ha,. In fact he TERMINATED Wesley’s NATO generalship 3 months earlier for lying to him about the Serb Army.
Jamie Shea, I didn't know this lying propagandist was still around. He is Serbia's enemy number 5 or 6, right after the Clintons, Blair, Albright, and Clarke. He is the NATO mouth piece that fabricated all those numbers in Kosovo in '99, "Possibly 100,000 murdered Albanians", "hundreds of Albanians thrown down mine shafts by evil Serbs, and so on, before the oh so noble "Humanitarian Intervention". He was one of the biggest cheerleaders for bombing the former YU, and with made-up numbers and scerios. When NATO have this liar, who was never made accountable for his hysterical rantings and false accounts, as a Director of Policy Planning, it should tell everyone what kind of despicable organization it is. Macedonia would be insane to join this exploitive, evil club, who's agenda is to rule the world. [link]
(winston, 27 October 2010 16:22)
I just love it. Do you guys remeber , becasue I a have a vivid memory when Mr. Shea used to say to Milosevic, that I have the power switch and I can turn your lights on and off in Belgrade at will.
Jamie Shea was a large part of this NATO criminal action. Why isn't this entire organization brought to the Hague? Mladic is chump change, compared to this military aggressor.
(IUPM, 27 October 2010 17:01)
Must have been the reason the UNSC chose NATO to head up the security sector of Kosovo!
The small countries are already withdrawing due to their economic problems and expenses that come with this mission. But looks like the big guys will be in Kosovo until Kosovo itself becomes a NATO member.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI4kz8CSYmA
Jamie Shea was a large part of this NATO criminal action. Why isn't this entire organization brought to the Hague? Mladic is chump change, compared to this military aggressor.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130801242
This one of the gifts made possible to the Kosovo Albanians by their savior, the NATO - enjoy.
Jamie Shea, I didn't know this lying propagandist was still around. He is Serbia's enemy number 5 or 6, right after the Clintons, Blair, Albright, and Clarke. He is the NATO mouth piece that fabricated all those numbers in Kosovo in '99, "Possibly 100,000 murdered Albanians", "hundreds of Albanians thrown down mine shafts by evil Serbs, and so on, before the oh so noble "Humanitarian Intervention". He was one of the biggest cheerleaders for bombing the former YU, and with made-up numbers and scerios. When NATO have this liar, who was never made accountable for his hysterical rantings and false accounts, as a Director of Policy Planning, it should tell everyone what kind of despicable organization it is. Macedonia would be insane to join this exploitive, evil club, who's agenda is to rule the world. http://usa.mediamonitors.net/content/view/full/78451
Jamie Shea, I didn't know this lying propagandist was still around. He is Serbia's enemy number 5 or 6, right after the Clintons, Blair, Albright, and Clarke. He is the NATO mouth piece that fabricated all those numbers in Kosovo in '99, "Possibly 100,000 murdered Albanians", "hundreds of Albanians thrown down mine shafts by evil Serbs, and so on, before the oh so noble "Humanitarian Intervention". He was one of the biggest cheerleaders for bombing the former YU, and with made-up numbers and scerios. When NATO have this liar, who was never made accountable for his hysterical rantings and false accounts, as a Director of Policy Planning, it should tell everyone what kind of despicable organization it is. Macedonia would be insane to join this exploitive, evil club, who's agenda is to rule the world. http://usa.mediamonitors.net/content/view/full/78451
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI4kz8CSYmA
Jamie Shea was a large part of this NATO criminal action. Why isn't this entire organization brought to the Hague? Mladic is chump change, compared to this military aggressor.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130801242
This one of the gifts made possible to the Kosovo Albanians by their savior, the NATO - enjoy.
The small countries are already withdrawing due to their economic problems and expenses that come with this mission. But looks like the big guys will be in Kosovo until Kosovo itself becomes a NATO member.
Jamie Shea, I didn't know this lying propagandist was still around. He is Serbia's enemy number 5 or 6, right after the Clintons, Blair, Albright, and Clarke. He is the NATO mouth piece that fabricated all those numbers in Kosovo in '99, "Possibly 100,000 murdered Albanians", "hundreds of Albanians thrown down mine shafts by evil Serbs, and so on, before the oh so noble "Humanitarian Intervention". He was one of the biggest cheerleaders for bombing the former YU, and with made-up numbers and scerios. When NATO have this liar, who was never made accountable for his hysterical rantings and false accounts, as a Director of Policy Planning, it should tell everyone what kind of despicable organization it is. Macedonia would be insane to join this exploitive, evil club, who's agenda is to rule the world. [link]
(winston, 27 October 2010 16:22)
I just love it. Do you guys remeber , becasue I a have a vivid memory when Mr. Shea used to say to Milosevic, that I have the power switch and I can turn your lights on and off in Belgrade at will.
there is nothing, simply nothing that can prevent this.
but I think the time will come that the K-albanians, or let´s rather say the rather smart ones among them, will come to terms with reality, and find a dialogue and compromise with the one and only real state, they are living in.
Jamie Shea was a large part of this NATO criminal action. Why isn't this entire organization brought to the Hague? Mladic is chump change, compared to this military aggressor.
(IUPM, 27 October 2010 17:01)
Must have been the reason the UNSC chose NATO to head up the security sector of Kosovo!
This liar has always misunderstood the Balkans as Serbia misunderstands the EU, for NATO and the EU are intertwined. NATO bomber Serbia and with their EU and US masters ripped Yugoslavia apart, all to insure Muslim control over a large swath of the country. NATO is no friend to Slavs but neither is the EU. Must Serbia cease to exist before this becomes obvious?
That's right. Keep spending your citizen's tax dollars to maintain a mafia-run drug-based government. That's how the citizens of NATO countries love to spend their money - on somebody else as a gift. Of course, the citizens of NATO countries love even better to line the pockets of criminals like Shea...The people there will one day wake up and realize the disaster known as Albanian Kosovo.
I just love it. Do you guys remeber , becasue I a have a vivid memory when Mr. Shea used to say to Milosevic, that I have the power switch and I can turn your lights on and off in Belgrade at will.
(Agim Kelmendi, 27 October 2010 19:3
This is not 1999, but I would like to see NATO try that one again, if it could. For 12 years it could not make Serbia recognise an “independent Kosovo” and after 2 catastrophic losses i.e. Iraq and Afghanistan you think that NATO is capable of doing something even remotely close to 1999? NATO, in the words of one western analyst, “is nothing more than more than a think tank in 2010. NATO is now only capable of working as prison guards in Kosovo. Its military prowess has been proven to be limited at best”.
Have a good look at Shea’s title, Director Policy Planning – If you have ever worked in Government you would automatically see that NATO is a beaurocray and not a fighting organization. For your edification Jamie is too busy sucking up to the Russians now to be even bothered with the Albos. The only lights he switches on or off is for Vladimir Putin and asks “more wine with your dinner sir”?
It was Jamie and lads that killed 10,000 Albos with their bombing in Kosovo not the Serbs. The US defence sec, William cohen, refused Wesley Clarke a parade in NY for the so called Kosovo victory because he was horrified that the Serb army was intact, ha, ha,. In fact he TERMINATED Wesley’s NATO generalship 3 months earlier for lying to him about the Serb Army.
(Top, 28 October 2010 16:37)
You are correct that NATO did not directly participate in Iraq but it did support the US invasion via other means such as logistics and transportion. To do justice to any statement on this forum you would need a couple of pages, but B92 edits lengthy posts so brevity is essential and sometimes the wrong message is sent out as a result.
If you look at NATO itself you will find that it has a political arm under none other than Jamie Shea, Director, Policy Planning. The fact that the west did not force Serbia to recognize an independent Kosovo at the very early stages was a huge tactical error. Simply speaking, by 2001 the US was embroiled in Afghanistan then Iraq and by 2010 both wars became a catastrophic loss in the case of Iraq to the US and Afghanistan to the US and its NATO allies.
You see NATO is as a separate arm from the political machinations of the west – that’s incorrect, it only an extension of that arm. In 2010 NATO cannot force Serbia to recognize an independent Kosovo. It has become a stalemate. Now you have the Russians in Nis and opening up a base in Montenegro; this will further stop any lasting resolution in the region. It’s all to do with stopping NATO from expanding.
Talks between Belgrade and Pristina had to occur because the US/EU cannot support Kosovo and now seeks some form of “economic reintegration” with Serbia so that the Albos can find work – Kosovo has 97% unemployment and the EU wants to return about 200 000 Albos back to Kosovo. The EU will not provide Kosovo with visa free travel otherwise why send the Albos back – whether this was intentional or not, but Kosovo has turned out to be a prison for the Albos.
NATO is only in Kosovo for Camp Bondsteel and not because of Milosevic or the Albanians.
"Jamie Shea, I didn't know this lying propagandist was still around. He is Serbia's enemy number 5 or 6, right after the Clintons, Blair, Albright, and Clarke.
(winston, 27 October 2010 16:22)"
What happeneded to Kucan, Izetbegovic, Tudjman or Susak? All these enemies and there are limits to how paranoid a person can be - decisions decisions - what is a self-respecting Greater Serb nationalist to do?
That is the problem with having an enemy-centric view of the world in order to garner internal solidarity, as opposed to a aspirational model of solidarity.
"He is the NATO mouth piece that fabricated all those numbers in Kosovo in '99, "Possibly 100,000 murdered Albanians", "hundreds of Albanians thrown down mine shafts by evil Serbs, and so on, before the oh so noble "Humanitarian Intervention". He was one of the biggest cheerleaders for bombing the former YU, and with made-up numbers and scerios.
(winston, 27 October 2010 16:22)"
What was NATO to do given the precedent of Serbia's actions in the wars in Bosnia and Croatia (esp w.r.t. Srebrenica and Dubrovnik)?
Europe couldn't sit around for 5 years like they did in Bosnia and do nothing to prevent the war crimes or destruction of civil and social infrastructure that are a highly foreseeable consequence of such a war.
The UN are not competent in such interventions, so it was up to NATO, especially given that it involved its own back yard. NATO had to weigh the consequences of intervention in terms of collateral damage with the consequences of non-intervention.
I believe that on balance, NATO made the right decision in intervening.
For all the protestations from Serbs, they are fortunate to have had NATO bombing them and not Serbs - cf the experience of cities such as Sarajevo, Vukovar, Gospic, Karlovac, Osijek, Vinkovci and Dubrovnik.
As for cheer-leading, you can't tell me that champagne bottles weren't popping throughout the Balkans and Eastern Europe?
"When NATO have this liar, who was never made accountable for his hysterical rantings and false accounts, as a Director of Policy Planning, it should tell everyone what kind of despicable organization it is. Macedonia would be insane to join this exploitive, evil club, who's agenda is to rule the world. [link]
(winston, 27 October 2010 16:22)"
Interesting article. I don't believe it is NATO's agenda to rule the world - I think this is hyperboli. Often, countries look to the US to be a sort of global policeman and often criticise the US for being selective when it plays policeman. But there was one comment that Pavel Zolotarev made that was interesting and it related to notion of NATO replacing the UN. In terms of civil issues, this is wrong - the UN will still have important role to play w.r.t. trade, health and legal issues. But the UN does not have the capacity or the competence for military intervention and peace keeping (cf UN safe havens in Bosnia, UN mission in Rwanda etc). That is something that regional structures such as NATO or the African Union call fill in for. Certainly he is right that there is the risk of NATO becoming an instrument of US foreign policy, but as the British, Dutch withdrawal from Afghanistan, and the British, Danish etc withdrawal from Iraq, the Greek objection to Macedonia joining NATO because of the country's name show that there will be limits to US influence and NATO still has plenty of room for internal dissent.
For 12 years it could not make Serbia recognise an “independent Kosovo” and after 2 catastrophic losses i.e. Iraq and Afghanistan you think that NATO is capable of doing something even remotely close to 1999? (sj, 27 October 2010 23:22)
Yes, sure NATO would be capable of that. Why not? Compared to Afghanistan, it's peanuts. And mentioning Iraq? What has NATO do do with Iraq? Do you mean the small training mission with some 100 soldiers teaching the Iraqi forces? But there's no reason for it, there's no Milosevic any more breaking up wars in EX-YU. And why sould NATO 'make' Serbia recognize Kosovo? That's something political, totally outside the scope of NATO. What a misconception.
You keep reciting this same erroneous statistic. Your own source, the Amnesty International Report, states this is the percentage of unemployment for Roma in Kosovo.
Unemployment is high, but 97 out of every 100 people are not jobless. A simple walk down the streets of Pristina will validate that.
"NATO is only in Kosovo for Camp Bondsteel and not because of Milosevic or the Albanians."
(sj, 28 October 2010 23:55)
Again, the Camp Bondsteel story! NATO has real big (air-)bases in Italy and the Turkey. There are several NATO members like Greece, Romania, even Croatia, in the Balkan region.
There's really no need for NATO to have an addtional base - especially not in a small, unstable country(?) like Kosovo.
Jamie Shea, I didn't know this lying propagandist was still around. He is Serbia's enemy number 5 or 6, right after the Clintons, Blair, Albright, and Clarke. He is the NATO mouth piece that fabricated all those numbers in Kosovo in '99, "Possibly 100,000 murdered Albanians", "hundreds of Albanians thrown down mine shafts by evil Serbs, and so on, before the oh so noble "Humanitarian Intervention". He was one of the biggest cheerleaders for bombing the former YU, and with made-up numbers and scerios. When NATO have this liar, who was never made accountable for his hysterical rantings and false accounts, as a Director of Policy Planning, it should tell everyone what kind of despicable organization it is. Macedonia would be insane to join this exploitive, evil club, who's agenda is to rule the world. http://usa.mediamonitors.net/content/view/full/78451
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI4kz8CSYmA
Jamie Shea was a large part of this NATO criminal action. Why isn't this entire organization brought to the Hague? Mladic is chump change, compared to this military aggressor.
The small countries are already withdrawing due to their economic problems and expenses that come with this mission. But looks like the big guys will be in Kosovo until Kosovo itself becomes a NATO member.
Jamie Shea was a large part of this NATO criminal action. Why isn't this entire organization brought to the Hague? Mladic is chump change, compared to this military aggressor.
(IUPM, 27 October 2010 17:01)
Must have been the reason the UNSC chose NATO to head up the security sector of Kosovo!
Jamie Shea, I didn't know this lying propagandist was still around. He is Serbia's enemy number 5 or 6, right after the Clintons, Blair, Albright, and Clarke. He is the NATO mouth piece that fabricated all those numbers in Kosovo in '99, "Possibly 100,000 murdered Albanians", "hundreds of Albanians thrown down mine shafts by evil Serbs, and so on, before the oh so noble "Humanitarian Intervention". He was one of the biggest cheerleaders for bombing the former YU, and with made-up numbers and scerios. When NATO have this liar, who was never made accountable for his hysterical rantings and false accounts, as a Director of Policy Planning, it should tell everyone what kind of despicable organization it is. Macedonia would be insane to join this exploitive, evil club, who's agenda is to rule the world. [link]
(winston, 27 October 2010 16:22)
I just love it. Do you guys remeber , becasue I a have a vivid memory when Mr. Shea used to say to Milosevic, that I have the power switch and I can turn your lights on and off in Belgrade at will.
For 12 years it could not make Serbia recognise an “independent Kosovo” and after 2 catastrophic losses i.e. Iraq and Afghanistan you think that NATO is capable of doing something even remotely close to 1999? (sj, 27 October 2010 23:22)
Yes, sure NATO would be capable of that. Why not? Compared to Afghanistan, it's peanuts. And mentioning Iraq? What has NATO do do with Iraq? Do you mean the small training mission with some 100 soldiers teaching the Iraqi forces? But there's no reason for it, there's no Milosevic any more breaking up wars in EX-YU. And why sould NATO 'make' Serbia recognize Kosovo? That's something political, totally outside the scope of NATO. What a misconception.
"Jamie Shea, I didn't know this lying propagandist was still around. He is Serbia's enemy number 5 or 6, right after the Clintons, Blair, Albright, and Clarke.
(winston, 27 October 2010 16:22)"
What happeneded to Kucan, Izetbegovic, Tudjman or Susak? All these enemies and there are limits to how paranoid a person can be - decisions decisions - what is a self-respecting Greater Serb nationalist to do?
That is the problem with having an enemy-centric view of the world in order to garner internal solidarity, as opposed to a aspirational model of solidarity.
"He is the NATO mouth piece that fabricated all those numbers in Kosovo in '99, "Possibly 100,000 murdered Albanians", "hundreds of Albanians thrown down mine shafts by evil Serbs, and so on, before the oh so noble "Humanitarian Intervention". He was one of the biggest cheerleaders for bombing the former YU, and with made-up numbers and scerios.
(winston, 27 October 2010 16:22)"
What was NATO to do given the precedent of Serbia's actions in the wars in Bosnia and Croatia (esp w.r.t. Srebrenica and Dubrovnik)?
Europe couldn't sit around for 5 years like they did in Bosnia and do nothing to prevent the war crimes or destruction of civil and social infrastructure that are a highly foreseeable consequence of such a war.
The UN are not competent in such interventions, so it was up to NATO, especially given that it involved its own back yard. NATO had to weigh the consequences of intervention in terms of collateral damage with the consequences of non-intervention.
I believe that on balance, NATO made the right decision in intervening.
For all the protestations from Serbs, they are fortunate to have had NATO bombing them and not Serbs - cf the experience of cities such as Sarajevo, Vukovar, Gospic, Karlovac, Osijek, Vinkovci and Dubrovnik.
As for cheer-leading, you can't tell me that champagne bottles weren't popping throughout the Balkans and Eastern Europe?
"When NATO have this liar, who was never made accountable for his hysterical rantings and false accounts, as a Director of Policy Planning, it should tell everyone what kind of despicable organization it is. Macedonia would be insane to join this exploitive, evil club, who's agenda is to rule the world. [link]
(winston, 27 October 2010 16:22)"
Interesting article. I don't believe it is NATO's agenda to rule the world - I think this is hyperboli. Often, countries look to the US to be a sort of global policeman and often criticise the US for being selective when it plays policeman. But there was one comment that Pavel Zolotarev made that was interesting and it related to notion of NATO replacing the UN. In terms of civil issues, this is wrong - the UN will still have important role to play w.r.t. trade, health and legal issues. But the UN does not have the capacity or the competence for military intervention and peace keeping (cf UN safe havens in Bosnia, UN mission in Rwanda etc). That is something that regional structures such as NATO or the African Union call fill in for. Certainly he is right that there is the risk of NATO becoming an instrument of US foreign policy, but as the British, Dutch withdrawal from Afghanistan, and the British, Danish etc withdrawal from Iraq, the Greek objection to Macedonia joining NATO because of the country's name show that there will be limits to US influence and NATO still has plenty of room for internal dissent.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130801242
This one of the gifts made possible to the Kosovo Albanians by their savior, the NATO - enjoy.
there is nothing, simply nothing that can prevent this.
but I think the time will come that the K-albanians, or let´s rather say the rather smart ones among them, will come to terms with reality, and find a dialogue and compromise with the one and only real state, they are living in.
I just love it. Do you guys remeber , becasue I a have a vivid memory when Mr. Shea used to say to Milosevic, that I have the power switch and I can turn your lights on and off in Belgrade at will.
(Agim Kelmendi, 27 October 2010 19:3
This is not 1999, but I would like to see NATO try that one again, if it could. For 12 years it could not make Serbia recognise an “independent Kosovo” and after 2 catastrophic losses i.e. Iraq and Afghanistan you think that NATO is capable of doing something even remotely close to 1999? NATO, in the words of one western analyst, “is nothing more than more than a think tank in 2010. NATO is now only capable of working as prison guards in Kosovo. Its military prowess has been proven to be limited at best”.
Have a good look at Shea’s title, Director Policy Planning – If you have ever worked in Government you would automatically see that NATO is a beaurocray and not a fighting organization. For your edification Jamie is too busy sucking up to the Russians now to be even bothered with the Albos. The only lights he switches on or off is for Vladimir Putin and asks “more wine with your dinner sir”?
It was Jamie and lads that killed 10,000 Albos with their bombing in Kosovo not the Serbs. The US defence sec, William cohen, refused Wesley Clarke a parade in NY for the so called Kosovo victory because he was horrified that the Serb army was intact, ha, ha,. In fact he TERMINATED Wesley’s NATO generalship 3 months earlier for lying to him about the Serb Army.
You keep reciting this same erroneous statistic. Your own source, the Amnesty International Report, states this is the percentage of unemployment for Roma in Kosovo.
Unemployment is high, but 97 out of every 100 people are not jobless. A simple walk down the streets of Pristina will validate that.
This liar has always misunderstood the Balkans as Serbia misunderstands the EU, for NATO and the EU are intertwined. NATO bomber Serbia and with their EU and US masters ripped Yugoslavia apart, all to insure Muslim control over a large swath of the country. NATO is no friend to Slavs but neither is the EU. Must Serbia cease to exist before this becomes obvious?
That's right. Keep spending your citizen's tax dollars to maintain a mafia-run drug-based government. That's how the citizens of NATO countries love to spend their money - on somebody else as a gift. Of course, the citizens of NATO countries love even better to line the pockets of criminals like Shea...The people there will one day wake up and realize the disaster known as Albanian Kosovo.
"NATO is only in Kosovo for Camp Bondsteel and not because of Milosevic or the Albanians."
(sj, 28 October 2010 23:55)
Again, the Camp Bondsteel story! NATO has real big (air-)bases in Italy and the Turkey. There are several NATO members like Greece, Romania, even Croatia, in the Balkan region.
There's really no need for NATO to have an addtional base - especially not in a small, unstable country(?) like Kosovo.
(Top, 28 October 2010 16:37)
You are correct that NATO did not directly participate in Iraq but it did support the US invasion via other means such as logistics and transportion. To do justice to any statement on this forum you would need a couple of pages, but B92 edits lengthy posts so brevity is essential and sometimes the wrong message is sent out as a result.
If you look at NATO itself you will find that it has a political arm under none other than Jamie Shea, Director, Policy Planning. The fact that the west did not force Serbia to recognize an independent Kosovo at the very early stages was a huge tactical error. Simply speaking, by 2001 the US was embroiled in Afghanistan then Iraq and by 2010 both wars became a catastrophic loss in the case of Iraq to the US and Afghanistan to the US and its NATO allies.
You see NATO is as a separate arm from the political machinations of the west – that’s incorrect, it only an extension of that arm. In 2010 NATO cannot force Serbia to recognize an independent Kosovo. It has become a stalemate. Now you have the Russians in Nis and opening up a base in Montenegro; this will further stop any lasting resolution in the region. It’s all to do with stopping NATO from expanding.
Talks between Belgrade and Pristina had to occur because the US/EU cannot support Kosovo and now seeks some form of “economic reintegration” with Serbia so that the Albos can find work – Kosovo has 97% unemployment and the EU wants to return about 200 000 Albos back to Kosovo. The EU will not provide Kosovo with visa free travel otherwise why send the Albos back – whether this was intentional or not, but Kosovo has turned out to be a prison for the Albos.
NATO is only in Kosovo for Camp Bondsteel and not because of Milosevic or the Albanians.
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