“Kosovo status should be discussed first”

Oh, come, come ..... everyone knows the de facto border is at the Ibar .....
(lowe, 23 October 2010 16:52)

Despite all the onstruction Serbs are doing in the North, Nikolic's car hasn't been stopped at the Ibar River, but at the border between Kosovo and Serbia.

"Absolutaly right Mr. Nikolic. It is a border.
(Agim Kelmendi, 23 October 2010 16:28)"

Oh, come, come ..... everyone knows the de facto border is at the Ibar .....
(lowe, 23 October 2010 16:52)


For the sake of argument I agree with you, but why do you claim that whole of Kosova is the craddle of Serbia?
If northern Mitro with 2-3 little hick towns is your craddle of Serbia, I'll say you can have it, so we all can have peace in this part of the world.

"...I can already see that independence. That does not mean that I’m recognizing it. But the administrative line with Kosovo is in fact a border. I personally felt that when they wouldn’t let me go to the patriarch’s enthronement,” the SNS leader said."

All the above is true. So what did you do and what is he doing to stop that happening? Just talk and talk because he can not do anything about it. Instead of working for peace he and Koshtunica are trying to undermine the dialogue and blaming the others for their FAILURE and their policies with Kosovo.

The government is, step by step, indirectly recognizing the independence of Kosovo. And I can already see that independence. That does not mean that I’m recognizing it. But the administrative line with Kosovo is in fact a border. I personally felt that when they wouldn’t let me go to the patriarch’s enthronement,” the SNS leader said.


Absolutaly right Mr. Nikolic. It is a border.

"Absolutaly right Mr. Nikolic. It is a border.
(Agim Kelmendi, 23 October 2010 16:28)"

Oh, come, come ..... everyone knows the de facto border is at the Ibar .....

@Agim Kelmendi
3 little hick towns in Northern Kosovo and Metohija are not the heart of Serbia. All of northern Kosovo, Gracanica, Novo Brdo, Kosovo Polje, Ranilug, Partes, Klokot, Strpce, Pec, Prizren, and Decani are all the heart of Serbia and Kosovo will always be Serbia! Always!
(Anonymous, 24 October 2010 01:30)

ops, you forgot to mention Gjakova or your so called Dakovica. Would you like me to throw a little piece of Ohio state, too?

Oh, come, come ..... everyone knows the de facto border is at the Ibar .....
(lowe, 23 October 2010 16:52)


For you and for everyone else who is uninformed or disinformed. This happened to Nikolic north of Ibar quite a way from your de-facto border.

There can never be peace between Serbs and Albanians because of people that have attitudes like you do. Calling towns in N. Mitrovica, Hick Towns, certainly is not offering an olive branch. Why do you have the need to sneak in a degrading few words? BTW, are the towns that Albanians control better? Are they teaming, prosperous towns full of abundance and excess? Try being nice some time, if you can.

"If northern Mitro with 2-3 little hick towns is your craddle of Serbia, I'll say you can have it, so we all can have peace in this part of the world.
(Agim Kelmendi, 23 October 2010 18:21)"

Then you should petition your leaders in Pristina to give up the Serb areas. I'm all for a solution whereby both sides can leave each other alone and move on.

Agim: "If northern Mitro with 2-3 little hick towns is your craddle of Serbia..."

Actually, Agim, in case you didn't notice the whole of Kosovo still remains legally part of Serbia. If this was not the case, and 'Kosova' was independent, then why would the architects of the project be setting up meetings and trying their hardest to persuade Serbia to negotiate a solution?

Actually, Agim, in case you didn't notice the whole of Kosovo still remains legally part of Serbia. If this was not the case, and 'Kosova' was independent, then why would the architects of the project be setting up meetings and trying their hardest to persuade Serbia to negotiate a solution?
(kate, 23 October 2010 19:54)

Actually, Kate, in case you didn't notice Kosovo is independent country indirectly recognized by Serbia according to the resolution adopted by UN GA. Nobody is trying to persuade Serbia on negotiating any solution. The dialog will be on life issues between two independent countries as Serbia will not be accepted in EU if she continues to ignore the reality.

Pristina must and will recognize Belgrade as their nation's (Serbia) capital, a significant amount of autonomy will be granted to the Albanos to keep them happy, peace will finally prosper throughout the Balkans once this provinces' criminal underworld gets eradicated by Serb forces. The myth of Illyria/Dardania, land of unicorns and lollipop lanes will then be extinguished forever.
(trudsaam, 24 October 2010 02:17)

Trudsaam
You can keep on dreaming. The reality is that you are not in any position to tell who what must do.
Instead of reflecting from reality that Kosovo belongs to its people (90% albanians) you are reflecting from your dreams.

Before you Albanians lay any more eggs over this article. Let’s put this into place. Serbia has not recognized an independent Kosovo and no amount of reading tea leaves will alter this fact – the reason why Nikolic was not allowed to attend the enthronement of the Serbian patriarch was simply Tadic playing politics and not because of the “Pristina government” – they are kept on a very tight leash by the US and told when and how high to jump.
The UN GA proclamation was an agreement reached by the US and Serbia and part of that agreement was to amend the resolution but in return talks have to take place between Pristina and Belgrade. You do recall that the US refused to even consider the issue of talks or status. Let’s face it when was the last time anyone listened to the UN GA – it’s toothless tiger and these resolutions and condemnations are meaningless. It’s all tactics. The US was unsure it could gather enough votes and a loss in the UN GA would mean a humiliating world stage defeat. So came the compromise – amend resolution and talks on the agenda and so is status of Kosovo.
“The government is, step by step, indirectly recognizing the independence of Kosovo. And I can already see that independence…..”
This is Nikolic ‘beating it up’ for the Serbian electorate and nothing else. If he gained power tomorrow he would do the exactly same as Tadic. For the Albos, I would not get too excited over “border recognition” or these talks not raising the status because there is a 3rd party that has a great interest in maintaining the status quo and even if Tadic wanted to sell out the Serbs the “hooligans” would be on the street before Tadic could finish his cornflakes. These talks will be long and arduous and could go on for the next 20 years, but I doubt it will take that long as the US will be bankrupt soon anyway.
Status Quo, Status Quo!!!!!

Pec is north of the Ibar????? Are you sure you are not the one who is uninformed? Anyway I was pointing out to that Agim that the de facto border is at the Ibar River, regardless of which part of Kosovo Nikola wanted to visit. That's the reality on the ground.
(lowe, 24 October 2010 00:59)

If you carefully read my comment I mentioned that he was stopped in Jarinje which is far north than Ibar River. I did not say that Peja (Pec) is north of Ibar.

how funny it is to read serbian comment on peja being serbian!!
most of you serbs here have never been in kosova it seems!

Obviously this discussion will come to status talks, what are they going to talk about?... What can Kosovo offer Serbia, does anyone know?

The input is quite simple and as follows;

Pristina must and will recognize Belgrade as their nation's (Serbia) capital, a significant amount of autonomy will be granted to the Albanos to keep them happy, peace will finally prosper throughout the Balkans once this provinces' criminal underworld gets eradicated by Serb forces. The myth of Illyria/Dardania, land of unicorns and lollipop lanes will then be extinguished forever.

"These talks will be long and arduous and could go on for the next 20 years, but I doubt it will take that long as the US will be bankrupt soon anyway.
Status Quo, Status Quo!!!!!"
(sj, 24 October 2010 08:38)

Over the years I have seen a lot of erratic hard core serbian nationalist predict crazy secenarios that were way off and never came to life.Sj, Peggy,Iowa and few others continue this dead end crusade hoping that the demise of US will restore the Serbian dreams.Sj if this talks continue for twenty years there want be anybody to talk to on the K Serbian side.Your numbers are shrinking drasticly while ours are increasing steady.In twenty years even Russia will have majority non Orthodox population due to decline and conversion.I hate to brake your fantasy but US will be still be a super power

"Actually, Kate, in case you didn't notice Kosovo is independent country indirectly recognized by Serbia according to the resolution adopted by UN GA. Nobody is trying to persuade Serbia on negotiating any solution. The dialog will be on life issues between two independent countries as Serbia will not be accepted in EU if she continues to ignore the reality.
(Simpatiku, 23 October 2010 23:50) "

"Indirect recgonition" -- what a creative term you aer using. Unfortuantely it does ot square with reality -- Serbia did not recognize Kosovo, period. Neither did the UNGA resolution, which, in case you forgot, is non-binding in any case. As for EU entry, I personally don't think it is in Serbia's ultimte interest to gain membership. In any case, "Kosova" itself has even less hope of EU entry, not to mention UN entry.

@Agim Kelmendi
3 little hick towns in Northern Kosovo and Metohija are not the heart of Serbia. All of northern Kosovo, Gracanica, Novo Brdo, Kosovo Polje, Ranilug, Partes, Klokot, Strpce, Pec, Prizren, and Decani are all the heart of Serbia and Kosovo will always be Serbia! Always!

"If you carefully read my comment I mentioned that he was stopped in Jarinje which is far north than Ibar River. I did not say that Peja (Pec) is north of Ibar.
(Simpatiku, 24 October 2010 11:30) "

What you wrote was actually contradicted by another B92 article http://www.b92.net//eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2010&mm=10&dd=04&nav_id=70065
In the above link, he accused TADIC (AND not Eulex or Pristina) of preventing him from going to Pec.

As for the other version which claimed he was stopped at a checkpoint called "Jarina" (is there such as checkpoint in Kosovo by that name?), this version had it that he tried to enter as a private citizen and so had no protection whatsover from Eulex since he was not on official duty.

Both versions at at variance with each other, but they both also contradicted with yours.

As for me, I think this politician doesn't seem very coherent in what he says anyway.

Pristina must and will recognize Belgrade as their nation's (Serbia) capital, a significant amount of autonomy will be granted to the Albanos to keep them happy, peace will finally prosper throughout the Balkans once this provinces' criminal underworld gets eradicated by Serb forces. The myth of Illyria/Dardania, land of unicorns and lollipop lanes will then be extinguished forever.
(trudsaam, 24 October 2010 02:17)
The irony is that you mention unicorns and lollipop lanes after saying Pristina must and will recognize Belgrade as their nations capital.
To borrow a favorite phrase from many on your side of the fence. "When pigs fly"
But it did give me a chuckle this Sunday morning.

It impresses me how both sides are misinformed. He was not allowed to enter via the border up north (at Tadic's request, what a good EULEX we have) and then was denied access at the Kosovan-Macedonian border (Jarina border post).

So on that day he was turned back twice. LOWE or IOWE this should clarify your confusion.

To the person who said Peja is Serbian...What a good laugh, if Gjakova and Peja are Serbian then I'm 100% Russian.

(jesse, 25 October 2010 11:44)

The world does not work like you think. Once again it was Angela Merkel that made that statement not a SERB. Ask the Italians what they think about the Albanians – their goals are full of “hard working men”. These are your allies that are saying these things not SERBS. I am only quoting what has already been said.
Albanians have been living off the backs of others and still expect to continue today – Tito looked after them and they multiplied like rabbits. Free electricity, free accommodation. The west will not give you a cent unless you work for it.
Once again I can say with confidence that your numbers will begin to dwindle at a very fast rate in the next decade because the west will NEVER allow a large number of Muslims to try and dominate Europe. I have heard this same story from other Muslims “we will out number them with our high birth rates” – there is one thing you forget; no work no food. The US and other western countries are working through the UN to reduce the world population and your ally has openly stated that third world countires will have to reduce birth rates otherwise no help will be forth. Egypt for example is in the process of reducing its population numbers. The only two groups against this action is the Muslims and the Vatican.
The money you send back is peanuts. You really need lessons in economics and how states function. It’s always nice to see these “bustling cities full of people that are working hard to build a brighter future” when you don’t live there. I am curious to know what type of factories are you Albos going to build?

(JohnnyC, 25 October 2010 12:03)
This is an example of the weak arguments put forth to disclaim that the US is not an economic basket case.
Defense –a bunch of cave dwellers are whipping your backside in Afghanistan. So much for your superior weaponry. So what’s your point?
GDP – That chart is out of well date because China overtook Japan in December 2009. That chart was correct in the year 2000, but the GFC accelerated the great leap forward.
In 2010, the US owes money to the UN unlike 15/20 years ago. Please don’t use Wiki because it is an unreliable source of information. The material you need, you don’t have access to and you would not like the information contained in those documents. For the average person I suggest they read “The 86 biggest lies on wall street” by John R Talbott.
In essence, the “factual material” provided here is so far out of date that its laughable. Any material published in 2006 is information as at 2001.

"For you and for everyone else who is uninformed or disinformed. This happened to Nikolic north of Ibar quite a way from your de-facto border.
(Simpatiku, 23 October 2010 19:48) "

Pec is north of the Ibar????? Are you sure you are not the one who is uninformed? Anyway I was pointing out to that Agim that the de facto border is at the Ibar River, regardless of which part of Kosovo Nikola wanted to visit. That's the reality on the ground.

To; Simpatiku and A New Day;

What will these discussions be about then ?

What resource, skill, service or any benifit at all can the "state" of Kosovo offer Belgrade?

If any one has any clue please enlighten me and list a few.

To; Simpatiku and A New Day;

What will these discussions be about then ?

What resource, skill, service or any benifit at all can the "state" of Kosovo offer Belgrade?

If any one has any clue please enlighten me and list a few.
(trudsaam, 24 October 2010 19:18)

The discussions will be on issues that have life values for people of both countries: missing persons, recognition of Kosovo passports from Serbia and many other issues.
This is not about naming Serbia as God who has to receive services by everyone around.

how funny it is to read serbian comment on peja being serbian!!
most of you serbs here have never been in kosova it seems!
(lili, 24 October 2010 13:51)
================

So what, most Americans haven't been to Washington or most of America but it's still theirs.

What's your point?

"most of you serbs here have never been in kosova it seems!"

How can we when every time a Serb goes there young or old they get attacked by terrorists. Our time will come!!!

To; Simpatiku and A New Day;

What will these discussions be about then ?

What resource, skill, service or any benifit at all can the "state" of Kosovo offer Belgrade?

If any one has any clue please enlighten me and list a few.
(trudsaam, 24 October 2010 19:18)
Initially the talks will be "much ado about nothing", everyone mentions missing persons, just because they cannot think of anything that both sides will agree to meet on. Then probably something along the lines of K-serbs connections with Belgrade.
Then eventually they will get around to what Serbia must have to sanction the independence of Kosovo. Notice the talks will not ever be about status per se, only what it will take for Serbia to accept Kosovo, either directly or indirectly. But there are too many countries on Kosovo's side for it to ever concede to Serbia.
Want to admit it or not but the deciding chip will be EU membership. Serbian politicians are just spinning their wheels if they actually think they can become an EU member and still lay claims to Kosovo. Which I am sure the leaders know this, but the dilemna is how to get the populus to agree.
But in reality it will probably be after Serbian elections before the first meeting between the 2 sides.

no status talks.

i keep telling Serb apologists Serbia is going to shoot itself in the foot as they insist on it.

Not ONE SINGLE ISSUE, agreement, plan, scheme by Serbia has Ever.. EVER worked.

Serbia CAVED at pushing a legal challenge in the UN. The "joint" eu-Serbia resolution does not speak of status talks... it specifically removed it.

Serb propaganda wont help you... "the resolution didnt say status was off the table" or the hundred and one things Serbs will do to reimagine the resolution WONT HELP. All the pretty speeches by Serb leadership as they lie to their constituents WONT HELP.

Again and Again Serbian duplicity will come back to bite them and we will hear the tired howls of unfairness and conspiracy theories of the EU towards Serbia.

Serb nationalist apologists are in for yet another disappointment and your going into with your eyes open.

Sj
Nobody dictates the size of our families but ourself. Americans don't force Serbs or Albanians to have abortion. US has been and still is the guiding light for democracy and human dignity.We don't need Americans to build factories in Kosovo, in time we will build em our-selfs. Contrary to your statement K Albanians are hard working and enterprising people that have flourished around the free world. They send billions of hard earned money to Kosovo every year making it easier for everybody to go through this tough economic times. If you ever decide to go to Kosovo you will see bustling cities full of people that are working hard to build a brighter future. The presence of US and EU is a daily remainder of better things to come for all Balkans. God knows we all need it...

(jesse, 25 October 2010 00:18)
You actually think that the west will let you continue breeding and doubling your numbers and “taking over” then you are living in Disneyland yourself. Within a decade they will halve your numbers. In the last decade alone the actual birth rate in Kosovo was the lowest on record and will continue to drop dramatically.
I am amazed that anyone thinks that the west will work while you sit on your backside and take over. Read up on what that delightful ally of yours stated – Angela Merkel –“Moslems were a burden on western society because they are the worst educated of all immigrants, refuse to educated their children, remain the most backward of all migrants, do not integrate and just collect social security”. In fact she said that they should adopt christian values. Oh, Angela is not an “erratic hard core serbian nationalist predict crazy secenarios”. The Russians are doing a great job in minimizing the Muslim population – ask the Chechens. Have you noticed that all these wars are in Muslim territory?????
“Russia …….due to decline and conversion” – converting to what? Islam, but how many are leaving Islam????? The only people that convert in the vast majority are not too bright so you can keep them with my blessings.
The US is technically broke. The level of unemployment is stated as 9.5% or about 15 million; it’s actually 30% plus or over 45 million – in September 2010 alone 356 000 registered for unemployment benefits. It is now generally accepted that poverty in some parts of the US are even worse than in India. That’s even before I mention the official public debt of 14 trillion but in actual it’s 22 Trillion – some claim that the public debt is 60 trillion and this does not take into account future liabilities such as medicare or social security. You Albanians should read more about the US – it’s all there so take the time to read up.
If your US is that strong why don’t they force North Korea to comply with their demands or for that matter stop Iran from making a nuclear bomb???? If it so strong why has it not forced Serbia to recognise an independent Kosovo?????????? Is it not a super power???????? Why have talks when it never wants talks to occur????? Why bother when you can order recognition and its finished once and for all??????
Where will your Albanians work????????? How many factories have the US opened up in Kosovo???????. The Albos have filled European gaols and you think that they are going to let you “take over”. Status is on the table otherwise it will get worse for the Albos with more being pushed back from the EU. The US cares little as long as they have Camp Krusty.
The Tadic government recently commissioned a poll on NATO and EU membership. NASTO membership is as far away as your independence in Kosovo. The EU fared about the same or 85% said that membership does not interest them and that it was only the politicians that were paid by the west constantly talked about the EU. So you see little Albanians that even this is not a bargaining chip – Kosovo moves nowhere – 12 years and nothing happens – Status Quo, boys.

To; A New Day & Simpatiku.

I can see that neither of you really know. Which is the reality, nobody knows, thank you.

Long story short; You are both claiming that these talks are to benefit "Kosovo", and not really Serbia. THIS is exactly my point. Serbia has all to offer you and you have nothing to offer back. What kind of talks are you hoping to achieve here?

"Over the years I have seen a lot of erratic hard core serbian nationalist predict crazy secenarios that were way off and never came to life.Sj, Peggy,Iowa and few others continue this dead end crusade hoping that the demise of US will restore the Serbian dreams.Sj if this talks continue for twenty years there want be anybody to talk to on the K Serbian side.Your numbers are shrinking drasticly while ours are increasing steady.In twenty years even Russia will have majority non Orthodox population due to decline and conversion.I hate to brake your fantasy but US will be still be a super power
(jesse, 25 October 2010 00:18) "

http://www.federalbudget.com/

Correct again, China is rapidly moving to replace the US at the economic summit. Interstingly India is hot on Japan's heels too, they do it without massive deficets and huge debt to GDP%, they also firmly back Serbia on Kosovo. Be fair champ give them a few 101 graphs.

http://www.countryreports.org/compare/top25.aspx?c=GDP

Probably one of the reasons and perhaps a perfect analogy of the sitch in a pic.

http://mothshutup.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/made_in_china.jpg

As for the military part the begining could be here already,

http://news.antiwar.com/2010/10/14/clinton-us-worried-by-british-military-cuts/

The clock ticks louder.

Many of the posters seem to think that the current situation is untenable, so Kosovo must somehow cave and accept some sort of "more than autonomy, less than independence" agreement.

Think from the perspective of the people here in Kosovo, however, before rushing to judgment about what Kosovo's government will be "forced" to do. Currently, people in Kosovo can travel much of the the world (at least if they have money to do so), businesses are easily able to open and expand here, there is a decent police force (at least compared to neighboring countries), new road systems are being built everywhere, the educational system is improving dramatically, the telecommunications network is making amazing advancements, the power is on much more than it was several years ago, and so on. Actually, other than the economy and the corrupt government, the situation is pretty good here. In relative terms, it is even better, since the economy all around this region leaves a lot to be desired and many or most of the governments are pretty corrupt...

Granted, Kosovo can't represent itself at many international organizations yet, so UNMIK does this for them (and generally they get to represent themselves under the banner of UNMIK).

If all Serbia has to offer is "more than autonomy and less than independence," then it really becomes a matter of who Kosovo would prefer to represent it to the world bodies, Serbia (forever) or UNMIK (until they can find a way to become members in the future). I am pretty sure that most people would prefer UNMIK in that case, especially since they don't remember UN police and paramilitary units killing their family members...

Serbia will have to do a lot better than they have indicated so far to make any sort of deal that is appealing at all, and every anti-albanian post on B92 makes the Serbian government's job that much harder, since if I were an Albanian, and I read what is posted here, I would never accept the sovereignty of Serbia.

Funny.

To the person who said Peja is Serbian...What a good laugh, if Gjakova and Peja are Serbian then I'm 100% Russian.
(KOSO)
-
Why? Are you part Russian?

There are many posters on this site who have an intense hatred of the US. In your shoes, I would probably feel the same way. However, let’s speak from reality here. For those of you who look to see their world changed by a WANING US and a WAXING Russia, China, India, etc… let’s look at the facts. There is a huge gap between the WANING US and those WAXING countries.

Here are some comparisons of note on the military perspective:

Aircraft Carriers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_carriers_by_country

Nuclear warheads
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons

Military Aircraft
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_level_of_military_equipment

Overall Military Strength
http://www.globalfirepower.com/

Here are some on the economic perspective:

GDP
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_gdp-economy-gdp

Percentage of World GDP
http://seekingalpha.com/article/223947-emerging-markets-representing-larger-percentage-of-world-gdp

GDP per Capita
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_gdp_percap-economy-gdp-per-capita

Average income
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_gro_nat_inc_percap-gross-national-income-per-capita

Contribution by percentage to UN
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations

Red Cross donations by country
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_red_cro_don-health-red-cross-donations

Private donations to humanitarian causes
http://www.america.gov/st/develop-english/2007/May/20070524165115zjsredna0.2997553.html

Economic Aid to other countries
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_eco_aid_don-economy-economic-aid-donor

Average productivity and vacation
http://www.gaebler.com/Productivity-and-Vacation-Comparisons-by-Country.htm

All of this isn’t to say in the least that the US doesn’t have its problems. It certainly does. Many of them caused by our own particular democratic model which drives politicians to see only to the next election and that favors special interest groups over the overall long-term well being of the country. All in all though, if we laid every country’s problems on the table and offered to trade, I think we’d take ours back.

"Absolutaly right Mr. Nikolic. It is a border.
(Agim Kelmendi, 23 October 2010 16:28)"

Oh, come, come ..... everyone knows the de facto border is at the Ibar .....

The government is, step by step, indirectly recognizing the independence of Kosovo. And I can already see that independence. That does not mean that I’m recognizing it. But the administrative line with Kosovo is in fact a border. I personally felt that when they wouldn’t let me go to the patriarch’s enthronement,” the SNS leader said.


Absolutaly right Mr. Nikolic. It is a border.

Agim: "If northern Mitro with 2-3 little hick towns is your craddle of Serbia..."

Actually, Agim, in case you didn't notice the whole of Kosovo still remains legally part of Serbia. If this was not the case, and 'Kosova' was independent, then why would the architects of the project be setting up meetings and trying their hardest to persuade Serbia to negotiate a solution?

"...I can already see that independence. That does not mean that I’m recognizing it. But the administrative line with Kosovo is in fact a border. I personally felt that when they wouldn’t let me go to the patriarch’s enthronement,” the SNS leader said."

All the above is true. So what did you do and what is he doing to stop that happening? Just talk and talk because he can not do anything about it. Instead of working for peace he and Koshtunica are trying to undermine the dialogue and blaming the others for their FAILURE and their policies with Kosovo.

"Absolutaly right Mr. Nikolic. It is a border.
(Agim Kelmendi, 23 October 2010 16:28)"

Oh, come, come ..... everyone knows the de facto border is at the Ibar .....
(lowe, 23 October 2010 16:52)


For the sake of argument I agree with you, but why do you claim that whole of Kosova is the craddle of Serbia?
If northern Mitro with 2-3 little hick towns is your craddle of Serbia, I'll say you can have it, so we all can have peace in this part of the world.

There can never be peace between Serbs and Albanians because of people that have attitudes like you do. Calling towns in N. Mitrovica, Hick Towns, certainly is not offering an olive branch. Why do you have the need to sneak in a degrading few words? BTW, are the towns that Albanians control better? Are they teaming, prosperous towns full of abundance and excess? Try being nice some time, if you can.

Actually, Agim, in case you didn't notice the whole of Kosovo still remains legally part of Serbia. If this was not the case, and 'Kosova' was independent, then why would the architects of the project be setting up meetings and trying their hardest to persuade Serbia to negotiate a solution?
(kate, 23 October 2010 19:54)

Actually, Kate, in case you didn't notice Kosovo is independent country indirectly recognized by Serbia according to the resolution adopted by UN GA. Nobody is trying to persuade Serbia on negotiating any solution. The dialog will be on life issues between two independent countries as Serbia will not be accepted in EU if she continues to ignore the reality.

@Agim Kelmendi
3 little hick towns in Northern Kosovo and Metohija are not the heart of Serbia. All of northern Kosovo, Gracanica, Novo Brdo, Kosovo Polje, Ranilug, Partes, Klokot, Strpce, Pec, Prizren, and Decani are all the heart of Serbia and Kosovo will always be Serbia! Always!

"Actually, Kate, in case you didn't notice Kosovo is independent country indirectly recognized by Serbia according to the resolution adopted by UN GA. Nobody is trying to persuade Serbia on negotiating any solution. The dialog will be on life issues between two independent countries as Serbia will not be accepted in EU if she continues to ignore the reality.
(Simpatiku, 23 October 2010 23:50) "

"Indirect recgonition" -- what a creative term you aer using. Unfortuantely it does ot square with reality -- Serbia did not recognize Kosovo, period. Neither did the UNGA resolution, which, in case you forgot, is non-binding in any case. As for EU entry, I personally don't think it is in Serbia's ultimte interest to gain membership. In any case, "Kosova" itself has even less hope of EU entry, not to mention UN entry.

Obviously this discussion will come to status talks, what are they going to talk about?... What can Kosovo offer Serbia, does anyone know?

The input is quite simple and as follows;

Pristina must and will recognize Belgrade as their nation's (Serbia) capital, a significant amount of autonomy will be granted to the Albanos to keep them happy, peace will finally prosper throughout the Balkans once this provinces' criminal underworld gets eradicated by Serb forces. The myth of Illyria/Dardania, land of unicorns and lollipop lanes will then be extinguished forever.

Oh, come, come ..... everyone knows the de facto border is at the Ibar .....
(lowe, 23 October 2010 16:52)

Despite all the onstruction Serbs are doing in the North, Nikolic's car hasn't been stopped at the Ibar River, but at the border between Kosovo and Serbia.

Oh, come, come ..... everyone knows the de facto border is at the Ibar .....
(lowe, 23 October 2010 16:52)


For you and for everyone else who is uninformed or disinformed. This happened to Nikolic north of Ibar quite a way from your de-facto border.

Before you Albanians lay any more eggs over this article. Let’s put this into place. Serbia has not recognized an independent Kosovo and no amount of reading tea leaves will alter this fact – the reason why Nikolic was not allowed to attend the enthronement of the Serbian patriarch was simply Tadic playing politics and not because of the “Pristina government” – they are kept on a very tight leash by the US and told when and how high to jump.
The UN GA proclamation was an agreement reached by the US and Serbia and part of that agreement was to amend the resolution but in return talks have to take place between Pristina and Belgrade. You do recall that the US refused to even consider the issue of talks or status. Let’s face it when was the last time anyone listened to the UN GA – it’s toothless tiger and these resolutions and condemnations are meaningless. It’s all tactics. The US was unsure it could gather enough votes and a loss in the UN GA would mean a humiliating world stage defeat. So came the compromise – amend resolution and talks on the agenda and so is status of Kosovo.
“The government is, step by step, indirectly recognizing the independence of Kosovo. And I can already see that independence…..”
This is Nikolic ‘beating it up’ for the Serbian electorate and nothing else. If he gained power tomorrow he would do the exactly same as Tadic. For the Albos, I would not get too excited over “border recognition” or these talks not raising the status because there is a 3rd party that has a great interest in maintaining the status quo and even if Tadic wanted to sell out the Serbs the “hooligans” would be on the street before Tadic could finish his cornflakes. These talks will be long and arduous and could go on for the next 20 years, but I doubt it will take that long as the US will be bankrupt soon anyway.
Status Quo, Status Quo!!!!!

Pec is north of the Ibar????? Are you sure you are not the one who is uninformed? Anyway I was pointing out to that Agim that the de facto border is at the Ibar River, regardless of which part of Kosovo Nikola wanted to visit. That's the reality on the ground.
(lowe, 24 October 2010 00:59)

If you carefully read my comment I mentioned that he was stopped in Jarinje which is far north than Ibar River. I did not say that Peja (Pec) is north of Ibar.

how funny it is to read serbian comment on peja being serbian!!
most of you serbs here have never been in kosova it seems!
(lili, 24 October 2010 13:51)
================

So what, most Americans haven't been to Washington or most of America but it's still theirs.

What's your point?

"If northern Mitro with 2-3 little hick towns is your craddle of Serbia, I'll say you can have it, so we all can have peace in this part of the world.
(Agim Kelmendi, 23 October 2010 18:21)"

Then you should petition your leaders in Pristina to give up the Serb areas. I'm all for a solution whereby both sides can leave each other alone and move on.

"For you and for everyone else who is uninformed or disinformed. This happened to Nikolic north of Ibar quite a way from your de-facto border.
(Simpatiku, 23 October 2010 19:48) "

Pec is north of the Ibar????? Are you sure you are not the one who is uninformed? Anyway I was pointing out to that Agim that the de facto border is at the Ibar River, regardless of which part of Kosovo Nikola wanted to visit. That's the reality on the ground.

"most of you serbs here have never been in kosova it seems!"

How can we when every time a Serb goes there young or old they get attacked by terrorists. Our time will come!!!

"These talks will be long and arduous and could go on for the next 20 years, but I doubt it will take that long as the US will be bankrupt soon anyway.
Status Quo, Status Quo!!!!!"
(sj, 24 October 2010 08:38)

Over the years I have seen a lot of erratic hard core serbian nationalist predict crazy secenarios that were way off and never came to life.Sj, Peggy,Iowa and few others continue this dead end crusade hoping that the demise of US will restore the Serbian dreams.Sj if this talks continue for twenty years there want be anybody to talk to on the K Serbian side.Your numbers are shrinking drasticly while ours are increasing steady.In twenty years even Russia will have majority non Orthodox population due to decline and conversion.I hate to brake your fantasy but US will be still be a super power

To the person who said Peja is Serbian...What a good laugh, if Gjakova and Peja are Serbian then I'm 100% Russian.
(KOSO)
-
Why? Are you part Russian?

Pristina must and will recognize Belgrade as their nation's (Serbia) capital, a significant amount of autonomy will be granted to the Albanos to keep them happy, peace will finally prosper throughout the Balkans once this provinces' criminal underworld gets eradicated by Serb forces. The myth of Illyria/Dardania, land of unicorns and lollipop lanes will then be extinguished forever.
(trudsaam, 24 October 2010 02:17)

Trudsaam
You can keep on dreaming. The reality is that you are not in any position to tell who what must do.
Instead of reflecting from reality that Kosovo belongs to its people (90% albanians) you are reflecting from your dreams.

"If you carefully read my comment I mentioned that he was stopped in Jarinje which is far north than Ibar River. I did not say that Peja (Pec) is north of Ibar.
(Simpatiku, 24 October 2010 11:30) "

What you wrote was actually contradicted by another B92 article http://www.b92.net//eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2010&mm=10&dd=04&nav_id=70065
In the above link, he accused TADIC (AND not Eulex or Pristina) of preventing him from going to Pec.

As for the other version which claimed he was stopped at a checkpoint called "Jarina" (is there such as checkpoint in Kosovo by that name?), this version had it that he tried to enter as a private citizen and so had no protection whatsover from Eulex since he was not on official duty.

Both versions at at variance with each other, but they both also contradicted with yours.

As for me, I think this politician doesn't seem very coherent in what he says anyway.

@Agim Kelmendi
3 little hick towns in Northern Kosovo and Metohija are not the heart of Serbia. All of northern Kosovo, Gracanica, Novo Brdo, Kosovo Polje, Ranilug, Partes, Klokot, Strpce, Pec, Prizren, and Decani are all the heart of Serbia and Kosovo will always be Serbia! Always!
(Anonymous, 24 October 2010 01:30)

ops, you forgot to mention Gjakova or your so called Dakovica. Would you like me to throw a little piece of Ohio state, too?

It impresses me how both sides are misinformed. He was not allowed to enter via the border up north (at Tadic's request, what a good EULEX we have) and then was denied access at the Kosovan-Macedonian border (Jarina border post).

So on that day he was turned back twice. LOWE or IOWE this should clarify your confusion.

To the person who said Peja is Serbian...What a good laugh, if Gjakova and Peja are Serbian then I'm 100% Russian.

To; A New Day & Simpatiku.

I can see that neither of you really know. Which is the reality, nobody knows, thank you.

Long story short; You are both claiming that these talks are to benefit "Kosovo", and not really Serbia. THIS is exactly my point. Serbia has all to offer you and you have nothing to offer back. What kind of talks are you hoping to achieve here?

To; Simpatiku and A New Day;

What will these discussions be about then ?

What resource, skill, service or any benifit at all can the "state" of Kosovo offer Belgrade?

If any one has any clue please enlighten me and list a few.

To; Simpatiku and A New Day;

What will these discussions be about then ?

What resource, skill, service or any benifit at all can the "state" of Kosovo offer Belgrade?

If any one has any clue please enlighten me and list a few.
(trudsaam, 24 October 2010 19:18)

The discussions will be on issues that have life values for people of both countries: missing persons, recognition of Kosovo passports from Serbia and many other issues.
This is not about naming Serbia as God who has to receive services by everyone around.

To; Simpatiku and A New Day;

What will these discussions be about then ?

What resource, skill, service or any benifit at all can the "state" of Kosovo offer Belgrade?

If any one has any clue please enlighten me and list a few.
(trudsaam, 24 October 2010 19:18)
Initially the talks will be "much ado about nothing", everyone mentions missing persons, just because they cannot think of anything that both sides will agree to meet on. Then probably something along the lines of K-serbs connections with Belgrade.
Then eventually they will get around to what Serbia must have to sanction the independence of Kosovo. Notice the talks will not ever be about status per se, only what it will take for Serbia to accept Kosovo, either directly or indirectly. But there are too many countries on Kosovo's side for it to ever concede to Serbia.
Want to admit it or not but the deciding chip will be EU membership. Serbian politicians are just spinning their wheels if they actually think they can become an EU member and still lay claims to Kosovo. Which I am sure the leaders know this, but the dilemna is how to get the populus to agree.
But in reality it will probably be after Serbian elections before the first meeting between the 2 sides.

Pristina must and will recognize Belgrade as their nation's (Serbia) capital, a significant amount of autonomy will be granted to the Albanos to keep them happy, peace will finally prosper throughout the Balkans once this provinces' criminal underworld gets eradicated by Serb forces. The myth of Illyria/Dardania, land of unicorns and lollipop lanes will then be extinguished forever.
(trudsaam, 24 October 2010 02:17)
The irony is that you mention unicorns and lollipop lanes after saying Pristina must and will recognize Belgrade as their nations capital.
To borrow a favorite phrase from many on your side of the fence. "When pigs fly"
But it did give me a chuckle this Sunday morning.

Sj
Nobody dictates the size of our families but ourself. Americans don't force Serbs or Albanians to have abortion. US has been and still is the guiding light for democracy and human dignity.We don't need Americans to build factories in Kosovo, in time we will build em our-selfs. Contrary to your statement K Albanians are hard working and enterprising people that have flourished around the free world. They send billions of hard earned money to Kosovo every year making it easier for everybody to go through this tough economic times. If you ever decide to go to Kosovo you will see bustling cities full of people that are working hard to build a brighter future. The presence of US and EU is a daily remainder of better things to come for all Balkans. God knows we all need it...

"Over the years I have seen a lot of erratic hard core serbian nationalist predict crazy secenarios that were way off and never came to life.Sj, Peggy,Iowa and few others continue this dead end crusade hoping that the demise of US will restore the Serbian dreams.Sj if this talks continue for twenty years there want be anybody to talk to on the K Serbian side.Your numbers are shrinking drasticly while ours are increasing steady.In twenty years even Russia will have majority non Orthodox population due to decline and conversion.I hate to brake your fantasy but US will be still be a super power
(jesse, 25 October 2010 00:18) "

http://www.federalbudget.com/

(jesse, 25 October 2010 00:18)
You actually think that the west will let you continue breeding and doubling your numbers and “taking over” then you are living in Disneyland yourself. Within a decade they will halve your numbers. In the last decade alone the actual birth rate in Kosovo was the lowest on record and will continue to drop dramatically.
I am amazed that anyone thinks that the west will work while you sit on your backside and take over. Read up on what that delightful ally of yours stated – Angela Merkel –“Moslems were a burden on western society because they are the worst educated of all immigrants, refuse to educated their children, remain the most backward of all migrants, do not integrate and just collect social security”. In fact she said that they should adopt christian values. Oh, Angela is not an “erratic hard core serbian nationalist predict crazy secenarios”. The Russians are doing a great job in minimizing the Muslim population – ask the Chechens. Have you noticed that all these wars are in Muslim territory?????
“Russia …….due to decline and conversion” – converting to what? Islam, but how many are leaving Islam????? The only people that convert in the vast majority are not too bright so you can keep them with my blessings.
The US is technically broke. The level of unemployment is stated as 9.5% or about 15 million; it’s actually 30% plus or over 45 million – in September 2010 alone 356 000 registered for unemployment benefits. It is now generally accepted that poverty in some parts of the US are even worse than in India. That’s even before I mention the official public debt of 14 trillion but in actual it’s 22 Trillion – some claim that the public debt is 60 trillion and this does not take into account future liabilities such as medicare or social security. You Albanians should read more about the US – it’s all there so take the time to read up.
If your US is that strong why don’t they force North Korea to comply with their demands or for that matter stop Iran from making a nuclear bomb???? If it so strong why has it not forced Serbia to recognise an independent Kosovo?????????? Is it not a super power???????? Why have talks when it never wants talks to occur????? Why bother when you can order recognition and its finished once and for all??????
Where will your Albanians work????????? How many factories have the US opened up in Kosovo???????. The Albos have filled European gaols and you think that they are going to let you “take over”. Status is on the table otherwise it will get worse for the Albos with more being pushed back from the EU. The US cares little as long as they have Camp Krusty.
The Tadic government recently commissioned a poll on NATO and EU membership. NASTO membership is as far away as your independence in Kosovo. The EU fared about the same or 85% said that membership does not interest them and that it was only the politicians that were paid by the west constantly talked about the EU. So you see little Albanians that even this is not a bargaining chip – Kosovo moves nowhere – 12 years and nothing happens – Status Quo, boys.

how funny it is to read serbian comment on peja being serbian!!
most of you serbs here have never been in kosova it seems!

no status talks.

i keep telling Serb apologists Serbia is going to shoot itself in the foot as they insist on it.

Not ONE SINGLE ISSUE, agreement, plan, scheme by Serbia has Ever.. EVER worked.

Serbia CAVED at pushing a legal challenge in the UN. The "joint" eu-Serbia resolution does not speak of status talks... it specifically removed it.

Serb propaganda wont help you... "the resolution didnt say status was off the table" or the hundred and one things Serbs will do to reimagine the resolution WONT HELP. All the pretty speeches by Serb leadership as they lie to their constituents WONT HELP.

Again and Again Serbian duplicity will come back to bite them and we will hear the tired howls of unfairness and conspiracy theories of the EU towards Serbia.

Serb nationalist apologists are in for yet another disappointment and your going into with your eyes open.

There are many posters on this site who have an intense hatred of the US. In your shoes, I would probably feel the same way. However, let’s speak from reality here. For those of you who look to see their world changed by a WANING US and a WAXING Russia, China, India, etc… let’s look at the facts. There is a huge gap between the WANING US and those WAXING countries.

Here are some comparisons of note on the military perspective:

Aircraft Carriers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_carriers_by_country

Nuclear warheads
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons

Military Aircraft
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_level_of_military_equipment

Overall Military Strength
http://www.globalfirepower.com/

Here are some on the economic perspective:

GDP
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_gdp-economy-gdp

Percentage of World GDP
http://seekingalpha.com/article/223947-emerging-markets-representing-larger-percentage-of-world-gdp

GDP per Capita
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_gdp_percap-economy-gdp-per-capita

Average income
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_gro_nat_inc_percap-gross-national-income-per-capita

Contribution by percentage to UN
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations

Red Cross donations by country
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_red_cro_don-health-red-cross-donations

Private donations to humanitarian causes
http://www.america.gov/st/develop-english/2007/May/20070524165115zjsredna0.2997553.html

Economic Aid to other countries
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_eco_aid_don-economy-economic-aid-donor

Average productivity and vacation
http://www.gaebler.com/Productivity-and-Vacation-Comparisons-by-Country.htm

All of this isn’t to say in the least that the US doesn’t have its problems. It certainly does. Many of them caused by our own particular democratic model which drives politicians to see only to the next election and that favors special interest groups over the overall long-term well being of the country. All in all though, if we laid every country’s problems on the table and offered to trade, I think we’d take ours back.

(jesse, 25 October 2010 11:44)

The world does not work like you think. Once again it was Angela Merkel that made that statement not a SERB. Ask the Italians what they think about the Albanians – their goals are full of “hard working men”. These are your allies that are saying these things not SERBS. I am only quoting what has already been said.
Albanians have been living off the backs of others and still expect to continue today – Tito looked after them and they multiplied like rabbits. Free electricity, free accommodation. The west will not give you a cent unless you work for it.
Once again I can say with confidence that your numbers will begin to dwindle at a very fast rate in the next decade because the west will NEVER allow a large number of Muslims to try and dominate Europe. I have heard this same story from other Muslims “we will out number them with our high birth rates” – there is one thing you forget; no work no food. The US and other western countries are working through the UN to reduce the world population and your ally has openly stated that third world countires will have to reduce birth rates otherwise no help will be forth. Egypt for example is in the process of reducing its population numbers. The only two groups against this action is the Muslims and the Vatican.
The money you send back is peanuts. You really need lessons in economics and how states function. It’s always nice to see these “bustling cities full of people that are working hard to build a brighter future” when you don’t live there. I am curious to know what type of factories are you Albos going to build?

(JohnnyC, 25 October 2010 12:03)
This is an example of the weak arguments put forth to disclaim that the US is not an economic basket case.
Defense –a bunch of cave dwellers are whipping your backside in Afghanistan. So much for your superior weaponry. So what’s your point?
GDP – That chart is out of well date because China overtook Japan in December 2009. That chart was correct in the year 2000, but the GFC accelerated the great leap forward.
In 2010, the US owes money to the UN unlike 15/20 years ago. Please don’t use Wiki because it is an unreliable source of information. The material you need, you don’t have access to and you would not like the information contained in those documents. For the average person I suggest they read “The 86 biggest lies on wall street” by John R Talbott.
In essence, the “factual material” provided here is so far out of date that its laughable. Any material published in 2006 is information as at 2001.

Funny.

Correct again, China is rapidly moving to replace the US at the economic summit. Interstingly India is hot on Japan's heels too, they do it without massive deficets and huge debt to GDP%, they also firmly back Serbia on Kosovo. Be fair champ give them a few 101 graphs.

http://www.countryreports.org/compare/top25.aspx?c=GDP

Probably one of the reasons and perhaps a perfect analogy of the sitch in a pic.

http://mothshutup.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/made_in_china.jpg

As for the military part the begining could be here already,

http://news.antiwar.com/2010/10/14/clinton-us-worried-by-british-military-cuts/

The clock ticks louder.

Many of the posters seem to think that the current situation is untenable, so Kosovo must somehow cave and accept some sort of "more than autonomy, less than independence" agreement.

Think from the perspective of the people here in Kosovo, however, before rushing to judgment about what Kosovo's government will be "forced" to do. Currently, people in Kosovo can travel much of the the world (at least if they have money to do so), businesses are easily able to open and expand here, there is a decent police force (at least compared to neighboring countries), new road systems are being built everywhere, the educational system is improving dramatically, the telecommunications network is making amazing advancements, the power is on much more than it was several years ago, and so on. Actually, other than the economy and the corrupt government, the situation is pretty good here. In relative terms, it is even better, since the economy all around this region leaves a lot to be desired and many or most of the governments are pretty corrupt...

Granted, Kosovo can't represent itself at many international organizations yet, so UNMIK does this for them (and generally they get to represent themselves under the banner of UNMIK).

If all Serbia has to offer is "more than autonomy and less than independence," then it really becomes a matter of who Kosovo would prefer to represent it to the world bodies, Serbia (forever) or UNMIK (until they can find a way to become members in the future). I am pretty sure that most people would prefer UNMIK in that case, especially since they don't remember UN police and paramilitary units killing their family members...

Serbia will have to do a lot better than they have indicated so far to make any sort of deal that is appealing at all, and every anti-albanian post on B92 makes the Serbian government's job that much harder, since if I were an Albanian, and I read what is posted here, I would never accept the sovereignty of Serbia.