Parliament to vote on criminal procedure changes

As people not living in an echo chamber might find, i do discuss at times but definitly not with people aggressively engaged in smearing campaigns and false accusations.

As we have discussed before, this is not so much about "hooligans" but measures to protect the western imposed puppet regime from popular uprising. As in the EU the privatized enterprise known as the "government" now will have the ability to define and label anyone it sees as a threath, as a "hooligan" or for that matter "terrorist".

Soon we will all be "hooligans"....

The ruling majority expects that the new law will enable for a more efficient fight against hooligans.
--
Rather than introducing new draconian laws the government should address the problems facing these people, mainly unemployment and education.

However, they feel it's more important to focus lots of resources on capturing Mladic and displaying EU carrots to a disillusioned people. This is only going to get worse and I assume will peak at the next election, when the sell-outs get a well deserved boot.

After all the effort, destruction and killing used by the west to grab power in Serbia they will lose it simply due to their incompetence and lack of regional understanding.

I support the change in criminal procedure changes as enough is enough.
(bganon, 22 October 2010 14:41)
--
So basically, if someone is involved in violence they can be locked away for 30 days without being taken to court? I don't even think that was allowed in Milosevic's days.

In the normal world, someone is charged and taken to court and then it is decided what sentence they receive.

Anyway, the government is just shooting itself in the foot. These so-called hooligans will get stronger and stronger as they continue to protest against the government, the lies and the poor economy. That is the real problem here.

BTW, what was the name of the Red Star hooligan leader back in 2000. The one that Otpor/NATO convinced to support them back then?

wtf I have never seen you discuss anything. Rather you deliver a monologue on what the Serbian people should be doing on high in spambot / troll style. Whilst other posters can be reasoned with, you appear to have a fundamentalist belief that cannot be changed by facts.

The fact is you are not interested in protecting law abiding Serbians. You prefer to support the threat of the usurption of democracy to install a dictatorship in Serbia that supports the ultra right. That is completely clear.

But one day you will wake up and realise that you lost. No amount of support of violence, no amount of cheating at the ballot box (I know you believe that the means of multiple voting justifies the end), no amount of cheerleading from the sidelines or pretending that your view is representative in today's Serbia will change the direction Serbia has taken.

Why don't you try to listen to the concerns of ordinary Serbians who you normally don't agree with? Its what rational people do. And at least that way you have a hope in hell of understanding why Serbia is not going in the direction you want it to go.

Say what you like about Nikolic but at least he is capable of that. And the reward of being able to understand, moderate or reach out (or even pretend to) is the chance to impact change in government. Until then mark my words, you (and other ultra rightists in Serbia) are just emptying your bladders into the wind.

I support the change in criminal procedure changes as enough is enough.

What would it take Zoran, what if your car was smashed to pieces? What if you saw some guy being beaten to a pulp in front of you by a group of them? When would you understand that this cannot be allowed to happen?
(bganon, 22 October 2010 17:29)
--
When was this ever allowed to happen is my question? The answer is that it never has. We have sufficient laws in place to deal with crime. The question should be, why is this happening now? Why are these people upset and on the streets causing mayhem? The finger always points back to the government and its policies.

So where are we heading now? Overcrowded jails? Why are we stereotyping the hooligans now? What are football hooligans doing on the streets protesting against the government? When did they increase their scope beyond that of football games?

The people are upset and if you think you can control them by fear, believe me, they are going to get even more upset.

This government needs to spend more time helping the majority of citizens. On infrastructure and development issues. The last time I read anything about that was to do with China being upset on the purchase of land it paid €7 million to build the Balkans largest shopping centre. However, the goverment claims the land belongs to them and the seller so the project is delayed.

But here we have the sell-outs focusing on pride marches, meetings with NATO, catching Mladic and selling Serbia for EU membership. It's no wonder the people are upset.

This law is profoundly anti-democratic.

Even the UK which faces a very high threat from terrorism has such long custody before charge period but it is expressly to be used in the fight against terrorism.

Does Belgrade think these hooligans pose an existential threat to Serbia or just the government who got in to power by the skin of its teeth and with the heavy intervention of outside countries.

This is a sign of weakness by a Belgrade government that has a slim mandate that they think using a sledgehammer to crack a nut is appropriate.

It also shows that the government has such little faith in its own justice system to efficiently investigate and prosecute its own citizens, which is directly their own fault at failing to make the reforms that are necessary. They got in to power promising their citizens milk, honey and the EU but seem incapable of making the right reforms.

Their solution as it is currently proposed looks to be unlimited as it will allow them to bang up anyone they wish if they call them a 'hooligan'. This is what fascist states do, not pro-EU reforming ones.

"Soon we will all be "hooligans"....
(wtf, 22 October 2010 12:08)"

As I have said before, your handle says it all....

what was the name of the Red Star hooligan leader back in 2000. The one that Otpor/NATO convinced to support them back then

Don't know Zoran, but I didn't realise you had so much time for sympathisers of OTPOR and NATO. You are full of suprises!

As for the hooligans protesting against the government. Chance would be a fine thing. Young men smashing up Belgrade, attacking people and looting shops is not a protest, its a riot. Oh and btw a social protest would be attended by all parts of society, not just teenage men / boys.

A proper protest would actually support something. We know they hate gays, we know they hate roma, we know they hate foreigners, we know they carry out the wishes of the football mafia, we know they claim to care about kosovo and we also know they love sportswear, preferably stolen.

If this is your only hope of bringing down the government you must be completely desperate.

As for 30 days to be held, that depends on the intial charge. And what would you advise, the current system is hunky dory I suppose?!

What would it take Zoran, what if your car was smashed to pieces? What if you saw some guy being beaten to a pulp in front of you by a group of them? When would you understand that this cannot be allowed to happen?

B92, put the cookies to good use and stop people from voting multiple times for themselves. There's another thread on here where the Albanian minority managed to recommend their own comments in the first 2 posts over 200 times within hours of posting.

From 'demographic warfare' to 'cookie warfare'! How times have/n't changed...

Zoran - what no comment on Brice Tatton.

Did you really forget that murder?

'So detaining people for 30 days is going to fix all that?'

Is keeping the current system going to fix it? Besides if you bothered to read anything other than a tabloid headline you would know the law allows for harsher sentences if convicted.

Now, do you understand the difference?
(bganon, 23 October 2010 03:36)
--
Wow, I didn't realise murder and violence were allowed in Serbia up until now. So detaining people for 30 days is going to fix all that?

'When was this ever allowed to happen is my question?'

Has your memory gone rusty? Brice Tatton. I know you are a master of 'cocking a deaf un' but it happened only a year or so ago when you were living in Belgrade.

Or perhaps you would care to watch a youtube video of the gay parade before this one to see how a bunch of hooligans enjoyed beating a woman together? As for the smashing up of cars and buses this has happened so many times its not even noteworthy.

How can one stereotype a hooligan. A hooligan is a hooligan what is to stereotype? If he does a criminal offence which they do they must be punished. As for overcrowded jails what do you want, to reduce sentences to make them emptier? I don't see your point.

'The people' (boys and young men) are upset you say. Well many of us are upset but funnily enough the large majority of upset people don't go on the rampage when they are upset.

No, when 'the people' are upset I will support them. When young men who target roma, homosexuals, foreigners, vandalise the town and steal from shops are upset under the instructions of the mafia (knowingly or not) they should be banged up.

When social protests are organised because of lay offs, when people break into supermarkets because they are hungry, when people get rowdy demanding employment and some damage is done then I will understand.

Now, do you understand the difference?

wtf I have never seen you discuss anything. Rather you deliver a monologue on what the Serbian people should be doing on high in spambot / troll style. Whilst other posters can be reasoned with, you appear to have a fundamentalist belief that cannot be changed by facts.

The fact is you are not interested in protecting law abiding Serbians. You prefer to support the threat of the usurption of democracy to install a dictatorship in Serbia that supports the ultra right. That is completely clear.

But one day you will wake up and realise that you lost. No amount of support of violence, no amount of cheating at the ballot box (I know you believe that the means of multiple voting justifies the end), no amount of cheerleading from the sidelines or pretending that your view is representative in today's Serbia will change the direction Serbia has taken.

Why don't you try to listen to the concerns of ordinary Serbians who you normally don't agree with? Its what rational people do. And at least that way you have a hope in hell of understanding why Serbia is not going in the direction you want it to go.

Say what you like about Nikolic but at least he is capable of that. And the reward of being able to understand, moderate or reach out (or even pretend to) is the chance to impact change in government. Until then mark my words, you (and other ultra rightists in Serbia) are just emptying your bladders into the wind.

I support the change in criminal procedure changes as enough is enough.

"Soon we will all be "hooligans"....
(wtf, 22 October 2010 12:08)"

As I have said before, your handle says it all....

what was the name of the Red Star hooligan leader back in 2000. The one that Otpor/NATO convinced to support them back then

Don't know Zoran, but I didn't realise you had so much time for sympathisers of OTPOR and NATO. You are full of suprises!

As for the hooligans protesting against the government. Chance would be a fine thing. Young men smashing up Belgrade, attacking people and looting shops is not a protest, its a riot. Oh and btw a social protest would be attended by all parts of society, not just teenage men / boys.

A proper protest would actually support something. We know they hate gays, we know they hate roma, we know they hate foreigners, we know they carry out the wishes of the football mafia, we know they claim to care about kosovo and we also know they love sportswear, preferably stolen.

If this is your only hope of bringing down the government you must be completely desperate.

As for 30 days to be held, that depends on the intial charge. And what would you advise, the current system is hunky dory I suppose?!

What would it take Zoran, what if your car was smashed to pieces? What if you saw some guy being beaten to a pulp in front of you by a group of them? When would you understand that this cannot be allowed to happen?

I support the change in criminal procedure changes as enough is enough.
(bganon, 22 October 2010 14:41)
--
So basically, if someone is involved in violence they can be locked away for 30 days without being taken to court? I don't even think that was allowed in Milosevic's days.

In the normal world, someone is charged and taken to court and then it is decided what sentence they receive.

Anyway, the government is just shooting itself in the foot. These so-called hooligans will get stronger and stronger as they continue to protest against the government, the lies and the poor economy. That is the real problem here.

BTW, what was the name of the Red Star hooligan leader back in 2000. The one that Otpor/NATO convinced to support them back then?

As we have discussed before, this is not so much about "hooligans" but measures to protect the western imposed puppet regime from popular uprising. As in the EU the privatized enterprise known as the "government" now will have the ability to define and label anyone it sees as a threath, as a "hooligan" or for that matter "terrorist".

Soon we will all be "hooligans"....

As people not living in an echo chamber might find, i do discuss at times but definitly not with people aggressively engaged in smearing campaigns and false accusations.

'When was this ever allowed to happen is my question?'

Has your memory gone rusty? Brice Tatton. I know you are a master of 'cocking a deaf un' but it happened only a year or so ago when you were living in Belgrade.

Or perhaps you would care to watch a youtube video of the gay parade before this one to see how a bunch of hooligans enjoyed beating a woman together? As for the smashing up of cars and buses this has happened so many times its not even noteworthy.

How can one stereotype a hooligan. A hooligan is a hooligan what is to stereotype? If he does a criminal offence which they do they must be punished. As for overcrowded jails what do you want, to reduce sentences to make them emptier? I don't see your point.

'The people' (boys and young men) are upset you say. Well many of us are upset but funnily enough the large majority of upset people don't go on the rampage when they are upset.

No, when 'the people' are upset I will support them. When young men who target roma, homosexuals, foreigners, vandalise the town and steal from shops are upset under the instructions of the mafia (knowingly or not) they should be banged up.

When social protests are organised because of lay offs, when people break into supermarkets because they are hungry, when people get rowdy demanding employment and some damage is done then I will understand.

Now, do you understand the difference?

What would it take Zoran, what if your car was smashed to pieces? What if you saw some guy being beaten to a pulp in front of you by a group of them? When would you understand that this cannot be allowed to happen?
(bganon, 22 October 2010 17:29)
--
When was this ever allowed to happen is my question? The answer is that it never has. We have sufficient laws in place to deal with crime. The question should be, why is this happening now? Why are these people upset and on the streets causing mayhem? The finger always points back to the government and its policies.

So where are we heading now? Overcrowded jails? Why are we stereotyping the hooligans now? What are football hooligans doing on the streets protesting against the government? When did they increase their scope beyond that of football games?

The people are upset and if you think you can control them by fear, believe me, they are going to get even more upset.

This government needs to spend more time helping the majority of citizens. On infrastructure and development issues. The last time I read anything about that was to do with China being upset on the purchase of land it paid €7 million to build the Balkans largest shopping centre. However, the goverment claims the land belongs to them and the seller so the project is delayed.

But here we have the sell-outs focusing on pride marches, meetings with NATO, catching Mladic and selling Serbia for EU membership. It's no wonder the people are upset.

The ruling majority expects that the new law will enable for a more efficient fight against hooligans.
--
Rather than introducing new draconian laws the government should address the problems facing these people, mainly unemployment and education.

However, they feel it's more important to focus lots of resources on capturing Mladic and displaying EU carrots to a disillusioned people. This is only going to get worse and I assume will peak at the next election, when the sell-outs get a well deserved boot.

After all the effort, destruction and killing used by the west to grab power in Serbia they will lose it simply due to their incompetence and lack of regional understanding.

Now, do you understand the difference?
(bganon, 23 October 2010 03:36)
--
Wow, I didn't realise murder and violence were allowed in Serbia up until now. So detaining people for 30 days is going to fix all that?

Zoran - what no comment on Brice Tatton.

Did you really forget that murder?

'So detaining people for 30 days is going to fix all that?'

Is keeping the current system going to fix it? Besides if you bothered to read anything other than a tabloid headline you would know the law allows for harsher sentences if convicted.

B92, put the cookies to good use and stop people from voting multiple times for themselves. There's another thread on here where the Albanian minority managed to recommend their own comments in the first 2 posts over 200 times within hours of posting.

This law is profoundly anti-democratic.

Even the UK which faces a very high threat from terrorism has such long custody before charge period but it is expressly to be used in the fight against terrorism.

Does Belgrade think these hooligans pose an existential threat to Serbia or just the government who got in to power by the skin of its teeth and with the heavy intervention of outside countries.

This is a sign of weakness by a Belgrade government that has a slim mandate that they think using a sledgehammer to crack a nut is appropriate.

It also shows that the government has such little faith in its own justice system to efficiently investigate and prosecute its own citizens, which is directly their own fault at failing to make the reforms that are necessary. They got in to power promising their citizens milk, honey and the EU but seem incapable of making the right reforms.

Their solution as it is currently proposed looks to be unlimited as it will allow them to bang up anyone they wish if they call them a 'hooligan'. This is what fascist states do, not pro-EU reforming ones.

From 'demographic warfare' to 'cookie warfare'! How times have/n't changed...