Serbia to get professional army

I think the army that stood tall and fooled NATO in their bloody onslaught on Serbia 10 years ago was professional to the bone, reducing them to some thousands is nothing else than NATO adaption.

36,000 man army to defend a nation of 8+ million people! But of course this was always in the plan. the enemies of serbia didnt detsroy it, so the next best thing to do is disarm it-make it toothless and unable to defend itself against a vast array of hostile nations.

when serbia had conscription, every adult male would serve a short period of time and learn basic military practices. serbia then didnt need a large standing army, in time of need, it could call on a vast reserve of adequetly trained civilian conscripts.

the next time serbia is under threat, or when the k-albanians finally march on mitrovica, or when the sandzak seperatists take up arms and call for independence - the serbian regime wont have to say "we wont" do anything to protect the serbs. Finally they can be honest and say "we cant" do anything to protect our citizens.

also, the officers of this 36,000 man army (not really army but future NATO contingent) are mostly trained in foreign countries. for years serbias military and police officers have all served tours of training duty in places such as ohio, usa and bavaria, germany. This reason for this is also simple but the regime never states it. these foreign trained officers have but one duty-not to protect thier citizens or thier homeland-but to assure the continuation of the current regime.

but there is a bright side to this. when a dictator has few soldiers, regardless of how loyal they are, and the people that are opressed are many, and when they are hungry, when they are betrayed and humiliated, and when they rise up against thier tormentors-thier victory is assured.

"36,000 man army to defend a nation of 8+ million people! But of course this was always in the plan."(milan, 2 October 2010 12:32)

Yes, this is perfectly in the plan an in line with European and international standards. For example, Germany with 80+ million, has less than 300,000 persons emplyed in the army. Austria with a similar population as Serbia has about 35,000. Poland with a population of about 38Mio has about 150,000. And the USA, with about 300Mio population, has about 1Mio people serving in the army (including national guard). Btw, they have a professional army only made up from volunteers. So where's your problem? Do you think 36,000 is still to high? Or do you wanna compete with countries like, let's say, North Korea: 1,2Mio people in the army and only 24Mio population?

This is, as SuNATOvac knows, normal procedure in adapting our nation to "NATO standards".

The low number of soldiers is redicolous and useless for defending the nation-state against foreign aggressors, but perfectly figured for participating in the USraeli wars and colonial projects in the middle east and elsewhere.

The current obedient regime in Belgrade is hell-bent on joining the €U and by so doing, the "prospect" is expected to join NATO as well.

Milan; "when serbia had conscription, every adult male would serve a short period of time and learn basic military practices"

Have you either served in the Serbian military recently or know kids that have? It simply cannot handle conscription numbers. Kids get more discipline out of a job than sitting in archaic barracks trading smokes, drugs and porn...

Today a large army is a burden because of technology, all you need is a small group of well-equipped professionals. Plus the JUG base, the largest military base in the Balkans near KiM. Plus the withdrawl of KFOR. Plus the S. Stream bringing RUS bases. Plus the failure of pro-UDI diplomacy. Plus divisions among the narco-politicians. The signs point to Res1244 being implemented by 2020.

dear dragce,

its really not your business if I served in either the serbian or yugoslav armies, I dont have to be a politician to comment on politics and I never had to be a soldier to comment on military issues.

-but ill indulge you-yes I did for one year and six months. My father and mother also served in the yugoslav army. One of my grandfathers served in the partizans and spent two years in a nazi prison camp. my other grandfather died fighting with the chetniks against the germans. My favorite cousin fought in the mountains of bosnia against islamic facists loyal to izetbegovic. I even served a short time in the US national guard-but after the invasion of iraq in 1991-I applied for conscientious objector status and was given an honorable discharge.

maybe its your experience that serbian, yugoslav conscripts are drug abusing perverts who spend all thier time reading porn-but more likely you are of a certain political or ethnic slant which colors negativley everythinmg in regards to serbs and thier military.

What conscription did was build bonds and friendships, the young conscripts traveled througout yugoslavia building bridges, repairing roads, maintaining the infrastructure. If your sons are reading porn all day and doing drugs its not the fault of the army-its a parenting problem.

It would be a good idea to have a 'territorial army' too (i.e. volunteers who train at the weekends and learn to use all the heavy equipment expertly (artillery etc.) who can be called up if that kind of support is needed. As in Serbia the citizen has the right to bare arms, they could also set up courses locally to keep citizens up to date with the relevant techniques and tactics, as volunteers of course. There are plenty of retired officers or those with combat experience who could do this.

As for the professional army, it should be highly mobile and well equipped.

Well said Dragce. Serbia needs a professional regular/reserve combination similar to that of western countries.

dear top,

your problem is honesty or a lack of geo-political-military knowledge. you compare germany, austria and poland to serbia. germany, austria and poland are all members of the nato alliance and assure each others self defense. serbia is a memeber of no existing alliance and relies only on itself for its defense. germany, poland and austria face no concievable military threat-serbia lives daily under a military threat.

here are two relevent examples which can be applied to serbia. the first is the client state of georgia(gruzia. georgia was an american client but not a memeber of nato. for years the us and its allies armed the small, fast georgian military with super high tech weapons and trained its small army in modern tactical warfare. russia, with its outdated but numerically superior military walked over georgia in 5 days. serbias best example is israel. israel is under constant threat by its neighbors and it needs both conscription, a large standing army and even hundreds of nuclear weapons to secure its citizens.

Whats the point sutanovac when you and those other clowns in belgrade won't even defend your own people and country.

Milan I don't really have a problem with your opinion but what I can't understand given your 'Jugoslav' perspective and background is the unforgiving way you refer to those who fought for Bosnian government forces as Islamo fascists.

You must know that this isn't true. There were people who joined believing that there was no choice but to fight - ie they were not fighting to support the establishment of an islamic state.

I have met such people (on all sides actually) who although they were convinced they were doing the right thing, they were not supporting their government position. Rather they felt they had no choice but to join battle to defend their people against attack from other people.

Anyway on the issue I support the establishment of a professional army but alongside conscription / voluntary service. In these times it is necessary to foster a sense of national unity through work in the army / hospitals / schools and so on.

This experience also adds to the job skills (and richness of life experience) of Serbian citizens.

I agree that a small professional army does not necessarily stand in the way of a population motivated to protecting its homeland, especially if they have a legal right to bear arms. Training abroad is always a good idea if the opportunity is there. If the soldiers involved are patriots, foreign training is not going to subvert this, especially not in the US where training, at least, is fairly conservative and nationalist motivated even where its foreign policy is too frequently not.

(highduke, 2 October 2010 15:00)
That is a whole lot of pluses!! Glad to see that even you believe that in 10 years the international community will still prohibit Serbia from having any political control over Kosovo.

36,000 man army to defend a nation of 8+ million people! But of course this was always in the plan. the enemies of serbia didnt detsroy it, so the next best thing to do is disarm it-make it toothless and unable to defend itself against a vast array of hostile nations.

when serbia had conscription, every adult male would serve a short period of time and learn basic military practices. serbia then didnt need a large standing army, in time of need, it could call on a vast reserve of adequetly trained civilian conscripts.

the next time serbia is under threat, or when the k-albanians finally march on mitrovica, or when the sandzak seperatists take up arms and call for independence - the serbian regime wont have to say "we wont" do anything to protect the serbs. Finally they can be honest and say "we cant" do anything to protect our citizens.

also, the officers of this 36,000 man army (not really army but future NATO contingent) are mostly trained in foreign countries. for years serbias military and police officers have all served tours of training duty in places such as ohio, usa and bavaria, germany. This reason for this is also simple but the regime never states it. these foreign trained officers have but one duty-not to protect thier citizens or thier homeland-but to assure the continuation of the current regime.

but there is a bright side to this. when a dictator has few soldiers, regardless of how loyal they are, and the people that are opressed are many, and when they are hungry, when they are betrayed and humiliated, and when they rise up against thier tormentors-thier victory is assured.

Today a large army is a burden because of technology, all you need is a small group of well-equipped professionals. Plus the JUG base, the largest military base in the Balkans near KiM. Plus the withdrawl of KFOR. Plus the S. Stream bringing RUS bases. Plus the failure of pro-UDI diplomacy. Plus divisions among the narco-politicians. The signs point to Res1244 being implemented by 2020.

This is, as SuNATOvac knows, normal procedure in adapting our nation to "NATO standards".

The low number of soldiers is redicolous and useless for defending the nation-state against foreign aggressors, but perfectly figured for participating in the USraeli wars and colonial projects in the middle east and elsewhere.

The current obedient regime in Belgrade is hell-bent on joining the €U and by so doing, the "prospect" is expected to join NATO as well.

"36,000 man army to defend a nation of 8+ million people! But of course this was always in the plan."(milan, 2 October 2010 12:32)

Yes, this is perfectly in the plan an in line with European and international standards. For example, Germany with 80+ million, has less than 300,000 persons emplyed in the army. Austria with a similar population as Serbia has about 35,000. Poland with a population of about 38Mio has about 150,000. And the USA, with about 300Mio population, has about 1Mio people serving in the army (including national guard). Btw, they have a professional army only made up from volunteers. So where's your problem? Do you think 36,000 is still to high? Or do you wanna compete with countries like, let's say, North Korea: 1,2Mio people in the army and only 24Mio population?

(highduke, 2 October 2010 15:00)
That is a whole lot of pluses!! Glad to see that even you believe that in 10 years the international community will still prohibit Serbia from having any political control over Kosovo.

I think the army that stood tall and fooled NATO in their bloody onslaught on Serbia 10 years ago was professional to the bone, reducing them to some thousands is nothing else than NATO adaption.

It would be a good idea to have a 'territorial army' too (i.e. volunteers who train at the weekends and learn to use all the heavy equipment expertly (artillery etc.) who can be called up if that kind of support is needed. As in Serbia the citizen has the right to bare arms, they could also set up courses locally to keep citizens up to date with the relevant techniques and tactics, as volunteers of course. There are plenty of retired officers or those with combat experience who could do this.

As for the professional army, it should be highly mobile and well equipped.

Milan; "when serbia had conscription, every adult male would serve a short period of time and learn basic military practices"

Have you either served in the Serbian military recently or know kids that have? It simply cannot handle conscription numbers. Kids get more discipline out of a job than sitting in archaic barracks trading smokes, drugs and porn...

dear dragce,

its really not your business if I served in either the serbian or yugoslav armies, I dont have to be a politician to comment on politics and I never had to be a soldier to comment on military issues.

-but ill indulge you-yes I did for one year and six months. My father and mother also served in the yugoslav army. One of my grandfathers served in the partizans and spent two years in a nazi prison camp. my other grandfather died fighting with the chetniks against the germans. My favorite cousin fought in the mountains of bosnia against islamic facists loyal to izetbegovic. I even served a short time in the US national guard-but after the invasion of iraq in 1991-I applied for conscientious objector status and was given an honorable discharge.

maybe its your experience that serbian, yugoslav conscripts are drug abusing perverts who spend all thier time reading porn-but more likely you are of a certain political or ethnic slant which colors negativley everythinmg in regards to serbs and thier military.

What conscription did was build bonds and friendships, the young conscripts traveled througout yugoslavia building bridges, repairing roads, maintaining the infrastructure. If your sons are reading porn all day and doing drugs its not the fault of the army-its a parenting problem.

dear top,

your problem is honesty or a lack of geo-political-military knowledge. you compare germany, austria and poland to serbia. germany, austria and poland are all members of the nato alliance and assure each others self defense. serbia is a memeber of no existing alliance and relies only on itself for its defense. germany, poland and austria face no concievable military threat-serbia lives daily under a military threat.

here are two relevent examples which can be applied to serbia. the first is the client state of georgia(gruzia. georgia was an american client but not a memeber of nato. for years the us and its allies armed the small, fast georgian military with super high tech weapons and trained its small army in modern tactical warfare. russia, with its outdated but numerically superior military walked over georgia in 5 days. serbias best example is israel. israel is under constant threat by its neighbors and it needs both conscription, a large standing army and even hundreds of nuclear weapons to secure its citizens.

I agree that a small professional army does not necessarily stand in the way of a population motivated to protecting its homeland, especially if they have a legal right to bear arms. Training abroad is always a good idea if the opportunity is there. If the soldiers involved are patriots, foreign training is not going to subvert this, especially not in the US where training, at least, is fairly conservative and nationalist motivated even where its foreign policy is too frequently not.

Well said Dragce. Serbia needs a professional regular/reserve combination similar to that of western countries.

Whats the point sutanovac when you and those other clowns in belgrade won't even defend your own people and country.

Milan I don't really have a problem with your opinion but what I can't understand given your 'Jugoslav' perspective and background is the unforgiving way you refer to those who fought for Bosnian government forces as Islamo fascists.

You must know that this isn't true. There were people who joined believing that there was no choice but to fight - ie they were not fighting to support the establishment of an islamic state.

I have met such people (on all sides actually) who although they were convinced they were doing the right thing, they were not supporting their government position. Rather they felt they had no choice but to join battle to defend their people against attack from other people.

Anyway on the issue I support the establishment of a professional army but alongside conscription / voluntary service. In these times it is necessary to foster a sense of national unity through work in the army / hospitals / schools and so on.

This experience also adds to the job skills (and richness of life experience) of Serbian citizens.