Telekom property destroyed in Kosovo

Any other nation would view the destruction of communications equipment in part of its sovereign territory as an act of war - so why not Serbia?
KFOR, the UN, NATO, and every other pro-albanian force in Kosovo is doing nothing to provide even handed protection, so why shouldn't Serbia mobilise her troops to ensure peace? If the K-albs want to be rulers, then they have to accept that modern governments can't choose who they treat fairly and who they don't - this isn't 1800, and they're not the ottomans!
KFOR is a toothless tiger, now is the time to march south, end the sacreligious pillage of our churches, and restore the rule of law in this godless nation where the thieves have been given the keys to to the city.

Let the whole world see the nature of Kosovo Albanians who only know how to destroy things, only a few days after all the countries at the UN voted for a peaceful solution of the Kosovo issue.

It is obvious that the Pristina Albanians do not want to have negotiations with Belgrade. I am totally speechless at the thug-like behavior of Thaci and co., but not surprised. Only when Pristina chooses educated, capable, forward-looking representatives, can there be real negotiations concerning Kosovo. This thug, a KLA leader, only knows to rule with force. Finding peace in Kosovo will be a long hard process, if ever.

And the Serbian government wants to negotiate with these criminals. They should be ashamed of themselves to sit down at the same table as people who are terrorising Serbs in Kosovo on a daily basis. Shame on you Tadic!

Funny how Belgrade is looking for ways to compromise while all Pristina can do is look for ways to terrorize. Please tell me again how this government represents the "youngest Europeans"? Please enlighten me and a number of others how this is going to pave the way towards a "new chapter" in reconciliation among Albanians and Serbs? Please tell me how this is not blind aggression? And please tell me why I and the outside world should support this.

"Kosovo's main telecom and largest mobile operator (PTK) is for sale and companies who are interested want telecom srbija out ASAP, simple as that."
(Pejoni, 26 September 2010 13:28)

That might be the reason, but why the hell should any company be interested in investing in Kosovo when it must always have to fear that the thugs in the government one fine day will come up with a new "law" and declare its business for "illegal" and destroy its property?

Such vandalism is always a reaction of frustration at inevitable long-term defeat

Wonder how much Madeline Albright and that posse in the Albright group has to do with this. All about lining the pockets of the self labeled champions of freedom and liberty perhaps. If Serbia is to fix this it has to fix itself get rid of the losers in Beograd.

After the huge ethnic cleansing campaign conducted by KLA terrorists and NATO how many Serbians are left in Kosovo? 5%? and since this only affects the south can we say 2% to 3% of the population? Well, if Kosovo's telecom company is up for sale, why should anyone care about this 2%?

This isn't about some sale but it's just another provocation by terrorists dressed in suits and NATO. This sows further seeds for future conflict and is a sign that some people are scared of negotiations. What a cowardly act.

Oh, the next provocation. And probably a good advertising for companies who consider to invest in the independent dream state of Kosovo.

I am a Serb living in Pristina (around 40 left)...all i can say...K-Albanians...come back ...what about us??..yes things happen during wars..there arent winners and losers...no phones, no ...freedom of movement...i experience violence every day...the best thing would be...all serbs go...(but we dont know where)...and leave kosovo to albanians...what about some basic human rights..does anyone thinks about that..what about properties..our houses..equality....our homes...where is international community...albanians got what they wanted...their state..what about ..serbs??...or we will pe put under the carpet as usual??

johny,

Ok, let’s assume that behind the heavy-handed tactics Pristina likes to play from time to time, let’s say that aside from a move that is clearly provocative and something that were it performed by Milošević you and others would be ranting and raving, and let’s say that beyond any quick and easy attempt at putting one’s power over another outside normal diplomatic channels, which Pristina has proven itself ready to do, all of this really is an effort in “cleaning” up Kosovo’s economy and getting rid of what we can call economic poachers. Let’s run with this…

First is the issue of licenses which Albanians love to use as a reason whenever attempts at destroying the phone lines are attempted. We’re not exactly talking about the most economically transparent region of Europe here and how many companies – Albanian run companies – are operating in Kosovo without proper licenses? Let’s put it another way: how much money does it take to get a license in Kosovo, knowing the money is really going to pay certain cartels for protection. Telekom Srbija doesn’t so much have a “license” (it does actually, it resides in Belgrade but you just don’t recognize it) as it’s not paying its share to Pristina. Please do not even attempt to lecture on economic transparency and “illegal” companies here. This is Kosovo, not Switzerland. “Licenses” is a diplomatic way of saying “clientelism”. You want to clean up the economy? Start with your own camp first.

Second, knowing the small percentage of people that use Telekom Srbija, how much money do you really think Prisitna is losing? I mean are they that much of a competitor that you have to physically destroy their property? And you speak of international bids for phone service in Kosovo. Like Ataman and Zoran, I can believe that, but why is it that companies are hesitant to put their money in Kosovo? Not because of a “rogue” phone company giving service to little more than 50,000 people, but because of the utter corruption that permeates the system and is occasionally augmented by heavy-handed tactics like this. You really think this is going to lure more bidders to Kosovo? Particularly when you know as well as I that Telekom will remain in the north? This is a smokescreen to hide larger more endemic issues. And to make matters worse, your government took what could have been a “light-weight” issue (phone service) and made it into a political issue. Good going there.

Third, don’t start with the “parallel structures” nonsense. “Kosova” would not be where it is today if it weren’t for parallel structures of its own dating back to the early 1980s. Don’t accuse me of sounding like Koštunica where you’re complaining about people thumbing their nose at your authority through popularly-supported alternative institutions instead the ones you want them to be a part of; institutions that have done absolutely nothing in winning the Serbs over. One’s “parallel institutions” are the other’s “legitimate authority”, so don’t waste your time trying to argue Kosovo’s institutions are any more legal than Serbia’s. You know as well as I that the upcoming talks are basically going to acknowledge both institutions for the sake of stability, so stop sounding like an Albanian variant of Milošević.

There are more mature and practical ways for solving this problem. You know as well as I that in that part of Europe, everything can operate with a little money thrown here and there. So what, Telekom wasn’t paying enough of a kickback? PTK doesn’t know how to alter the transmitter frequencies? You want a cut of the action? Contact Telekom’s representatives and haggle over a deal. Albanians get money, and Serbs get to say they use “their” phone serving in “their” province. Everyone’s happy. Destroy the towers and it becomes another source of conflict. By politicizing this, Pristina never looks beyond short-term victories since the towers will probably be back up in a week or two and will now most certainly be an issue in the negotiation settlement.

And in a hypothetical situation in which PTK operated in Presevo – which I really wouldn’t be surprised could happen knowing Belgrade’s proclivity to let Albanians do whatever they want (schools there are using Albanian published books, so there’s your “parallel structures”) – I daresay you and most other Albanian supporters of the law would look kindly on Belgrade dismantling the transmitters and forcing the population to use Telekom, I may be wrong, but licenses or not, legality or not, something tells me your comments wouldn’t really be thinking about licenses or “legitimate” institutions.

Funny how Belgrade is looking for ways to compromise while all Pristina can do is look for ways to terrorize. Please tell me again how this government represents the "youngest Europeans"? Please enlighten me and a number of others how this is going to pave the way towards a "new chapter" in reconciliation among Albanians and Serbs? Please tell me how this is not blind aggression? And please tell me why I and the outside world should support this.
(Mike, 26 September 2010 16:18)

Mike I sense you're becoming Kostunica like with every passing day. You know the explanation but you're too high on emotions and hence you make baseless accusations. I will explain.

1. We in Kosova see ourselves as independent. As an independent country
we have telecommunication laws that determine whether a telecommunications company is operating legally or illegally in the state of Kosova. The Serb telecommunication company is operating illegally according to these laws. This should not be allowed to continue because:

a) It is unfair competition to all the other legal operators in Kosova since the Serb telecommunication company pays no taxes, pays no rent for the land it uses, or has not payed anything to get a licence hence this causes a problem in terms of competition for the other companies that have invested millions of dollars.

b)Allowing illegal operators in your state also speaks about the capabilities that you as a state have. This becomes especially important when there is a telecommunication company in Kosova up for sale and there is an international bid going on. The presence of illegal operators (operators that are unlicensed in Kosova) greatly reduces the value of such bids. This is bad for the budget of the government of Kosova.

c) Only two weeks ago the Serb telecomunication company which operates in Kosova illegally threatened all of those that are bidding for PTK that it will sue them because as they stated PTK is Serb property. This being the case makes it clear that the Serb telecommunication company cannot be allowed to operate in Kosova.

2) This is directly the result of the policies of the state of Serbia. The state of Serbia with its policies aims and works tirelessly to create parallel institutions in Kosova. Since it is clear that Serbia will not recognize an independent Kosova in our lifetimes, such parallel institutions are a threat to the state of Kosova since they strengthen the presence of the Serbian state in Kosova. As such it is only logical to eradicate the presence of the Serbian state in Kosova. This becomes even more important to do when talks about technical issues ( presence of parallel Serb institutions) are about to commence. We cannot allow the Serb state to impose such institutions on us while they are working on strengthening them every day. It is high time we made it clear that the position of the Serb state cannot start by further strengthening the parallel institutions that are present now. So what we are doing is weakening them in order to come to what we consider a middle of the road thing.

With that said this "young European" is telling you to stop being bitter until the Serb telecommunications company gets a licence to operate legally in Kosova. As long as they operate illegally under our laws they will be cut for the reasons I explained above. The analogy would be PTK operating in Presheva Valley without a licence. This is exactly how ridiculous your claims are.

Kosovo's main telecom and largest mobile operator (PTK) is for sale and companies who are interested want telecom srbija out ASAP, simple as that.

All this is happening under the auspices (and the secret blessing) of EULEX. I'm so happy that we are friends with such people...

Every single day there is a new provocation, a new act of destruction or violence yet there is always some mitigating circumstance if the victims are Serb.

The decade following the fall of Milosevic will go down in history as Serbia's missed decade. Serbia had the opportunity to rid itself of the legacies of Communism and Milosevic's gangsterism and could have reformed and progressed and not be in the position that it is in now where it is forced to accept every insult and provocation that is thrown toward it and the Serbian people as a whole.

Any other nation would view the destruction of communications equipment in part of its sovereign territory as an act of war - so why not Serbia?
(James, UK, 26 September 2010 13:39)

Because MiG-29 is a pretty old design, most countries - Russia included - are phasing them out. New designs like F-22 for Americans or Su-37 for Russians are already developed.

The most modern airplanes of Serbian air force are THREE operational (they have four total) MiG-29 airplanes. The rest are basically training aircraft of much weaker design... even if they are used as fighters.

The ground forces are totally outdated, not a single modern battle tank.

This is the result not of the wars and sanctions - but rather decades of dilettante handling, in-house corruption, lack of R&D funds and other things.

Of course, other smaller ex-"Socialist" countries from "A"(lbania) to "R"(omania) are in the same shape, but they weren't exposed to any kind of military conflict. No one ever expected "Y"(ugoslavia) to be in the center of a military conflict, so it's understandable.

On the other hand the ex-"Socialist" (or not-so-ex) countries which were / are exposed to such conflict represent a serious force: NKorea, VietNam. As bad as the human rights may look in these places - NATO is coward enough NOT to intervene because Iraq and Afghanistan would look like a Sunday walk compared to, say, Viet Nam (some major country already knows it!)

--------

KFOR, the UN, NATO, and every other pro-albanian force in Kosovo is doing nothing to provide even handed protection, so why shouldn't Serbia mobilise her troops to ensure peace?
(James, UK, 26 September 2010 13:39)

If these troops would be strong enough - there wouldn't be need to mobilize anyone to begin with. The lesson of the "humanitarian bombing": every country should have a STRONG ENOUGH military force that would make anyone think twice about going into such adventures. In the case of "humanitarian bombing": if the Yugoslav air defense would be a known serious force and if NATO would count with no air supremacy and expect serious losses - "humanitarian bombing" would not happen.

Given the experience of NATO fighting in last few decades the air defense is probably a #1 priority.

-------

Kosovo's main telecom and largest mobile operator (PTK) is for sale and companies who are interested want telecom srbija out ASAP, simple as that.
(Pejoni, 26 September 2010 13:28)

Yes, I believe you - this is most likely the case. But the methods used are pretty much mafiosi methods. Or with less verbal offense: "Balkan mentality". That will haunt for a while, I am sure Serbs will remember it and given the first opportunity pay back with all interest accumulated over the time.

After the huge ethnic cleansing campaign conducted by KLA terrorists and NATO how many Serbians are left in Kosovo? 5%? and since this only affects the south can we say 2% to 3% of the population? Well, if Kosovo's telecom company is up for sale, why should anyone care about this 2%?

This isn't about some sale but it's just another provocation by terrorists dressed in suits and NATO. This sows further seeds for future conflict and is a sign that some people are scared of negotiations. What a cowardly act.
(Zoran, 26 September 2010 15:01)

My guess is that they need an absolute, 100% monopoly to get the best price. Where the money will go we all know, of course. Not disputing the political thing - but here there is also a very strong, personal economic incentive. I am sure, it's about (illegal) personal enrichment.

"Well this 'KLA' people that you are refering are not doing what should be done,,what would you say if we would install our network infrastructure in Presheva valley,,would Serbia be happy about it, would you allow it????"
(Xheti, 26 September 2010 15:43)

A bad example, not a valid comparison. It's more like: You install some infrastructure in a region, and after some years, some people come and tell "we are independent now, you are not allowed to do your business any more, stop it or we will destroy your property"

Sheer nihilism. Says a lot about those running Kosovo today. A rather aggressive but pathetic gesture.

This is a necessary step for Albanians to complete the task of ethnic cleansing and to complete the theft of the province from Serbia.

It is quite in keeping with their behaviours from before the time of Milosevic when they drove good (not troublesome) Serbs out of Kosovo.

Congratulations to the international community for condoning this.

"Kosovo Albanian authorities several times this year incapacitated transmitters of Serbian mobile operators claiming they had no license to operate."

Serbia and its representative in Kosovo should have know by now the score. You can not allow illegal operators doing "their work" because Serbia and Kosovo are in the process of negotiations. That's got to be stopped.

A bad example, not a valid comparison. It's more like: You install some infrastructure in a region, and after some years, some people come and tell "we are independent now, you are not allowed to do your business any more, stop it or we will destroy your property"
(Top, 26 September 2010 17:20)

Bad example. It is more like you install some infrastructure. Fire everyone of the other ethnicity that works there. Then send in tanks, airplanes, army, police, military forces to kill them. Ethnically cleanse 1 million of them; destroy and light their houses on fire. Then after all this happens some years later you come and tell " it doesn't matter that we tried to kill you and that we destroyed your homes; we are allowed to do whatever we want and what we do is our business only. As far as we're concerned nothing happened"

This reflects things better.

Well done KPS.
This is a very good job.

Tadic Lets sort this out peacefully! Can you set up your famous dialogue?? or will you beg the USA and EU as usual??
You are totally powerless.. admit it! Or send for Turkey

Xheti - could you perhaps show us all where in the ICJ opinion is said that Kosovo is a legal state or that its secession from Serbia was legal?

The judges were in fact very clear that this is not what they said.

In fact, if we are really technical about this, I think you will also find that they didn't even say explicitly that the declaration of independence was legal. Instead, they simply said that:

The Court considers that general international law contains no applicable prohibition of declarations of independence. Accordingly, it concludes that the declaration of independence of 17 February 2008 did not violate general international law.

There is actually a subtle difference between saying something is legal and saying that something does not appear to be illegal. But, as your comment illustrates, such subtlety eludes you.

Really, if you are going to come here and make big claims, it would be better for your credibility if they were in fact accurate.

Serbian companies thought that they can get away with this, but now it is hardball time. Pay or stay out. No negotiations!

I smell the united sates of windbags at it again. That's why I celebrate each US death in Iraq and Afghaistan with gusto.

(sj, 26 September 2010 14:08)
Recommend (+16)Poor comment (-6)

Quite an assumption and quite a statement.

Roberto,

Horrible words, at least some Albanians have some merit to say because they were exposed to the joy of the Milosevic-"socialism". Do you actually re-read what you write or just shoot it blind in the public? (Sorry, I am just curious).

And since I have quite a few things to do with Jewry - I have to beg for forgiveness here in lieu of Roberto doing it (I don't think, he will).

Serbia is one of the few countries in the world where antisemitism is of miniscule proportions. Roberto is doing everything he can just to make it much worse. Can you please not to spoil our life?

Thanks, but no thanks for the usual autistic comment.

I fully support Mike's points that he outlined so well in the post below.

I'd only add that actually this is probably an attempt to gain an advantage before talks are held. It is a fact that before negotiations are held in a conflict zone that either one or both sides will try to grab or use the situation to their advantage before talks begin.

And I'd like to commend Marie's post too. Again I know that many of our Kosovo Albanian posters feel as if the views of those from Serbia proper are irrelevent to them. On the other hand some Kosovo Albanians say they have respect for Serbs living in Kosovo. How does doing this support Kosovo Serbs, what message does it send them.

And to those such as Rocky cheering this activity. Sorry I know that there is something wrong inside me to cheer something when it is destruction. There is something of a base nature that enjoys smashing things down that we have seen in the Balkans too many times.

Why not use all resources to build something up?

Whether Serbs want or not this is a starting point to remove the Serbian garbage from Kosovo. This is in favour of Kosovo Albanians and Serbs. This is not only in favour of Serb politicians and criminals that work under their supervision.

--With that said this "young European" is telling you to stop being bitter until the Serb telecommunications company gets a license to operate legally in Kosova. As long as they operate illegally under our laws they will be cut for the reasons I explained above. The analogy would be PTK operating in Presheva Valley without a license. This is exactly how ridiculous your claims are.
(johny, 26 September 2010 18:12)

thanks johny, and others, for patiently explaining what IS going on in Kosova and what is not. some sanity in the midst of all the shark attacks.

and the wording of the "news" article, province this, and province that. i mean really, if i wanted to read blgd regime press releases i'd go str8t to the source! why bother w an intermediary?

the other side is determined to continue and grow parallel institutions inside Kosova, contrary to the laws and regulations of that country. i really don't give a hoot whether you like the current leadership in pristina or not. i myself am ambivalent, but that is irrelevant. every country has laws and regulations -- follow them or get out!

let there be no doubt -- the people of kosova are still under attack by serbia, visa vis the blgd regime and their proxies -- mup agents galore, businesses etc. they can't use their terror forces against us directly (thank god for nato, at least in the balkans!) so they attack us in every other way. that's what thy admit to, so why bother lying about it?

as for other countries, businesses investing in kosova, that's something we are hoping and planning for, but that is THEIR decision, not that of the serbian extremists. the balkans in general has not proven esp.ly attractive for foreign investors (unless you count slovenia :), esp.ly as the main aggressor continues in every way possible to destabilize its neighbors, kosova and bosnia. this must stop, and we intrnl's must put a stop to it. tough love, folks, very tough, is the only effective way to deal with the blgd regime, and to eventually improve the lives of the common people, for whom they could care less.

ciao!
roberto / frisco

These albanians are nothing but terrorists and the us can't cover this up anymore.

It is obvious that the Pristina Albanians do not want to have negotiations with Belgrade. I am totally speechless at the thug-like behavior of Thaci and co., but not surprised. Only when Pristina chooses educated, capable, forward-looking representatives, can there be real negotiations concerning Kosovo. This thug, a KLA leader, only knows to rule with force. Finding peace in Kosovo will be a long hard process, if ever.
(winston, 26 September 2010 13:18)
Really winston,,,
Well this 'KLA' people that you are refering are not doing what should be done,,what would you say if we would install our network infrastructure in Presheva valley,,would Serbia be happy about it, would you allow it????

Well well, these some people you are refering to actully are the people who lived here for centuries, and it's these people who's right is recognised now even by ICJ.
(Xheti, 26 September 2010 19:48)
====================

Recognised by ICJ to do what? Destroy property and behave like bullies?

Don't forget that Serbs have lived in Kosovo for centuries as well. They even named the place which suggests that your lot was not very significant in that area because you haven't left a mark there while the Serbs have built a civilisation.

ICJ has only stated that declaring independence is not againt the law not actually being able to take a chunk of Serbia and pretend it's another country.
Why do you guys always keep mixing the two up?

We have again the same criminals in Kosovo trying to operate without a license.

I believe the workers of these illegal institutions should also be arrested.

A bad example, not a valid comparison. It's more like: You install some infrastructure in a region, and after some years, some people come and tell "we are independent now, you are not allowed to do your business any more, stop it or we will destroy your property"
(Top, 26 September 2010 17:20)
Well well, these some people you are refering to actully are the people who lived here for centuries, and it's these people who's right is recognised now even by ICJ.

It does seem that in light of recent events this action could have been delayed and the entire issue put on the agenda for the upcoming talks.

With that said this "young European" is telling you to stop being bitter until the Serb telecommunications company gets a licence to operate legally in Kosova. As long as they operate illegally under our laws they will be cut for the reasons I explained above. The analogy would be PTK operating in Presheva Valley without a licence. This is exactly how ridiculous your claims are.
(johny, 26 September 2010 18:12)

You actually believe what you write?

There is absolutely no justification for the destruction of any telecommunication property from any country.

Suspension, penalties and seizure is one thing; destruction is a malicious illegal act.

The KPS should never get involved over a business matter. This action is contrary to your own Albanian Kosovo constitution.


The move is purely political and if you really believe its over economics, you need to go back to school.

Don't forgot you "independance" is not supported by 120 countries and UNSC 1244 is still in force. Telecom Srbija is operating under those laws.

As for the business implications, Telecom Serbija is 20% owned by OTE from Greece who is a major telecom player in Europe.

OTE Biography:

Hellenic Telecommunications Organization (OTE S.A.) is Greece's largest telecommunications operator, providing services to consumers, Greek and foreign businesses and public agencies. Apart from serving as a full service telecommunications group in the Greek telecoms market, during the last decade OTE Group has expanded its geographical footprint throughout South East Europe, acquiring stakes in the incumbent telecommunications companies of Romania and the Republic of Serbia and establishing mobile operations in Albania, Bulgaria, the FYROM and Romania. The Group also offers mobile telephony, internet access, broadband, ISDN, satellite, high - speed data communications and leased lines services. OTE is among the five largest listed companies with respect to capitalization in the Athens Stock Exchange and also trades on New York (NYSE) and London (LSE) Stock Exchanges.

Let the whole world see the nature of Kosovo Albanians who only know how to destroy things, only a few days after all the countries at the UN voted for a peaceful solution of the Kosovo issue.
(VB, 26 September 2010 13:02)
================

Sure, but the rest of the world will not know about this. Do you honestly believe that CNN or BBC or any other western media will report this?

Mike,

It is funny to see you going into one of those long lectures of yours and trying to justify why Serbs s/b above the laws of Kosovo. The bottom line is that regardless of the number of users of the Serbian talacom compliance with the Kosovo licencing has to be respected.
None compliance - as it is currently - will not bring the Serbs any sympathy in Western countries.

johny,

"Ok, let’s assume that behind the heavy-handed tactics Pristina likes to play from time to time, let’s say that aside from a move that is clearly provocative and something that were it performed by Milošević you and others would be ranting and raving, and let’s say that beyond any quick and easy attempt at putting one’s power over another outside normal diplomatic channels, which Pristina has proven itself ready to do, all of this really is an effort in “cleaning” up Kosovo’s economy and getting rid of what we can call economic poachers. Let’s run with this… "

-- Lots of assumptions there. Not all are necessary true.

"First is the issue of licenses which Albanians love to use as a reason whenever attempts at destroying the phone lines are attempted. We’re not exactly talking about the most economically transparent region of Europe here and how many companies – Albanian run companies – are operating in Kosovo without proper licenses? Let’s put it another way: how much money does it take to get a license in Kosovo, knowing the money is really going to pay certain cartels for protection. Telekom Srbija doesn’t so much have a “license” (it does actually, it resides in Belgrade but you just don’t recognize it) as it’s not paying its share to Pristina. Please do not even attempt to lecture on economic transparency and “illegal” companies here. This is Kosovo, not Switzerland. “Licenses” is a diplomatic way of saying “clientelism”. You want to clean up the economy? Start with your own camp first. "

-- Bad way of seeing things. You start with those which claim that residing in Belgrade gives them a free pass to do anything in Kosova, hence no licence needed. One because that myth has to be destroyed. A Belgrade address will not be allowed to make anyone immune to Kosova's laws. A Belgrade address will not be allowed to be held as some sort of a universal free pass to do whatever you want in Kosova. If you want to do that do it in Belgrade. There are other people living in Kosova hence other rules. Two because this is a threat to 95% of Kosovars who see Kosova as their own state. See you don't recognize Kosova's authority because you choose to. Telekom Serbija has chosen to not get a licence because they were ordered by Tadic and Jeremic thinking that would mean recognition of Kosova; hence by not getting a licence Telekom Serbia not only disregards the laws in Kosova but it disregards its existence as a state. This clearly is not a money issue for Serbia. It is both a money issue but more importantly an existential issue for us. You deny our existence in this case through a state company; we'll make sure you know we're here. These are the repercussions of those choices, of those policies Serbia chooses to pursue. You learn to live with it. We are simply responding by not recognizing Belgrade. There is nothing to be angry about here. You make your choices, we respond with ours. Its very simple, really.

"Second, knowing the small percentage of people that use Telekom Srbija, how much money do you really think Prisitna is losing? I mean are they that much of a competitor that you have to physically destroy their property? And you speak of international bids for phone service in Kosovo. Like Ataman and Zoran, I can believe that, but why is it that companies are hesitant to put their money in Kosovo? Not because of a “rogue” phone company giving service to little more than 50,000 people, but because of the utter corruption that permeates the system and is occasionally augmented by heavy-handed tactics like this. You really think this is going to lure more bidders to Kosovo? Particularly when you know as well as I that Telekom will remain in the north? This is a smokescreen to hide larger more endemic issues. And to make matters worse, your government took what could have been a “light-weight” issue (phone service) and made it into a political issue. Good going there."

-- Few things to discuss here. I'll start from the end. This turned into a political issue the very moment the state of Serbia instructed its state owned companies that any contractual agreement with Kosova authorities means implicit or explicit recognition of the state of Kosova. It was a good try of playing the naive card Mike, but you know this is the case and we all know here that you are not naive enough to claim to not be aware of this. This is also the case with the electric company. A simple contractual agreement with PTK or KEK and all of these disappear. As always the Serb side has to be ridiculous and overreact and tie a company contract to independence. Stupid move.
Also the money PTK or the Kosova government loses are not in the subscriptions of the Serbs. That amount of money isn't considerable when it comes to cell phone service. The money it loses is very considerable when it comes to bids for companies that are up for sale. So while corruption makes things harder( it is blatant in Serbia as well; we can stop acting), bids decrease in value when a company knows that it has to enter in a market where foreign owned companies can operate under different rules from them. The incentive to invest under such conditions disappears. They might as well invest and get a Belgrade address operate illegally in Kosova, while claiming to be immune from Kosova's laws because they have that Belgrade address. Such a thing cannot and will not be allowed to run rampant.
Lastly as I said earlier this is also an existential issue for us. The state or government of Serbia denies our existence outside of Serbia's constitutional framework. As such it instructs its state companies to behave in a fashion where our existence, our rules, our laws are inexistent. Hence you have Telekom Serbija threatening to sue anyone who bids for PTK. The logical move of course is simply to make sure that you know that we do exist, and we do that by eliminating threats that do harm our existence and our budget. Telekom Serbija is doing both under the instruction of the Serb government.

"Third, don’t start with the “parallel structures” nonsense. “Kosova” would not be where it is today if it weren’t for parallel structures of its own dating back to the early 1980s. Don’t accuse me of sounding like Koštunica where you’re complaining about people thumbing their nose at your authority through popularly-supported alternative institutions instead the ones you want them to be a part of; institutions that have done absolutely nothing in winning the Serbs over. One’s “parallel institutions” are the other’s “legitimate authority”, so don’t waste your time trying to argue Kosovo’s institutions are any more legal than Serbia’s. You know as well as I that the upcoming talks are basically going to acknowledge both institutions for the sake of stability, so stop sounding like an Albanian variant of Milošević. "

-- I see nothing wrong with parallel institutions in theory. They are wrong however when there are some things that need to be taken into account.

1. Unlike us the Serbs weren't fired from our institutions because they are Serbs. As a matter of fact they are guaranteed participation that is way higher than their respective population in numbers. So unlike the Serbs our parallel institutions became necessary when we were denied representation in state institutions. This is not happening to Serbs today.

2. Our parallel institutions where not sponsored by any state that sought disruption. When your schools are not allowed to remain open, you find alternatives. This is not the case with the Serbs.

So while there were parallel institutions your analogies are totally wrong. Ours came to existence because we were denied representation in the state institutions. Your's exist because you choose to. Ours came to existence because Serbia forced us out of its institutions; yours came to existence because Serbia is ordering you to stay out of ours. The difference here is huge and one that we do need to emphasize.



"There are more mature and practical ways for solving this problem. You know as well as I that in that part of Europe, everything can operate with a little money thrown here and there. So what, Telekom wasn’t paying enough of a kickback? PTK doesn’t know how to alter the transmitter frequencies? You want a cut of the action? Contact Telekom’s representatives and haggle over a deal. Albanians get money, and Serbs get to say they use “their” phone serving in “their” province. Everyone’s happy. Destroy the towers and it becomes another source of conflict. By politicizing this, Pristina never looks beyond short-term victories since the towers will probably be back up in a week or two and will now most certainly be an issue in the negotiation settlement. "

-- Short sighted way of seeing things. I will repeat again. The Serb state does not allow its state owned companies to get into contractual agreements with Kosova owned companies because it believes it means implicit or explicit recognition of Kosova. You and I both know this is stupid to say the least but that's how things are. This is where all politicization starts; in the attitude of the state of Serbia and its eagerness to connect any and everything related to Kosova with status. This issue is not about kickbacks. It all comes down to the inability of Serb owned companies to enter contractual agreements with anyone from Kosova because the state of Serbia has ordered them. As I stated earlier; way to overreact on things you shouldn't. But than again this has characterized the Serb state for decades. This is simple. All Telekom needs to do is sign a contract with PTK saying that they will operate in these areas and will have these customers. Nobody on this side of the isle thinks that means recognition or anything remote to that. However leave it to the Serb and they will come up with some far fetched scenario or conspiracy theory that makes things harder for everyone.

"And in a hypothetical situation in which PTK operated in Presevo – which I really wouldn’t be surprised could happen knowing Belgrade’s proclivity to let Albanians do whatever they want (schools there are using Albanian published books, so there’s your “parallel structures”) – I daresay you and most other Albanian supporters of the law would look kindly on Belgrade dismantling the transmitters and forcing the population to use Telekom, I may be wrong, but licenses or not, legality or not, something tells me your comments wouldn’t really be thinking about licenses or “legitimate” institutions."

-- Again assumptions Mike. Too many of them. It isn't that hard to get PTK to operate in Presheva. All you need is 3 antennas on the roof of a building reinforcing signal coming from Kosova. The reason why that isn't being done is simply because of our attitude. That is Serbia. We do our things in Kosova. Your attitudes on the other hand are the opposite. You believe that a Belgrade address gives you a free pass to do anything in Kosova and makes you immune of Kosova's laws. That's what it comes down to.
Also, Belgrade isn't doing anything special. Stop kidding yourselves. Just last week Albania opened a Serb school for a village where there's roughly about 50 kids. Guess what; all their books are published in Serbia. These are no parallel structures. These are things that any country is obliged to do and what Belgrade and Tirana are doing is nothing else but meeting obligations. Belgrade is not special, Tirana is not special. These are normal things. Might not seem normal to you or might seem as Belgrade is doing Albanians one favor too many, but that is not the case. Now when it comes to Kosova it is needless to say there are Serb schools there. What you consider as a big gesture from the Serb state for allowing Albanian schools is nothing but normal. You will get used to it.

"The current situation is that central Kosovo is without mobile service..." = This is WRONG. I just triple checked, my mobile phone is working... others too... I guess, some individuals, leaded by dreams of the how and what Kosovo was before '99 can not understand, is no licence that's equal to ILLEGAL... Can kosovo operators operate in Serbia without licence?!!! One of posters wrote about difficult life in Kosovo, human rights etc.... I am trying to understand him... And many others that are consistently arguing against Kosovo institutions, avoiding payment of bills (electricity bills, property taxes, taxes on incomes, taxis on profit etc) and still claiming they are persecuted, even though, they still have electricity, their roads are being asphalted, Kosovo companies are cleaning their "gardens"... But when it comes to payment, they claim Kosovo is Serbia and they don't want to pay for anything... Wake up... It is not 1999, it is not 1981... Now we live in 2010, Kosovo is state and all institutions are legal. If one does not have registered business in Kosovo, he/she operates illegally. These antennas would have been removed long time ago in any other state. Kosovo waited for a long time, asking all providers to register their business, but I guess, earning "free of charge" is much better than paying taxes and that's why, they want to keep these antennas and earn as much as possible. I am against illegal operations and as such, I believe this was right think to do. Remember, just few months ago, legal operators in Kosovo offered free simcards to Kosovo Serbs, just so they would not have any cost while transferring from one in to another provider. They were some benefiting from this offer, and they want to have "063" operating... Come one... Be realistic...

Don't forget that Serbs have lived in Kosovo for centuries as well. They even named the place which suggests that your lot was not very significant in that area because you haven't left a mark there while the Serbs have built a civilisation.

ICJ has only stated that declaring independence is not againt the law not actually being able to take a chunk of Serbia and pretend it's another country.
Why do you guys always keep mixing the two up?
(Peggy, 27 September 2010 05:26)
Peggy,
Actually ICJ let everyone know that Kosovo is independent even legally now, and this is a call for some people to wake up and face reality. Taking care about legal issues and clearing the environment from illegal operators is one fundamental duty of each independent country. You should understand that cellar phones and services operates on wireless spectrum which should be controlled and licensed, otherwise it will be a mess and nobody would be able to operate.

Actually ICJ let everyone know that Kosovo is independent even legally now
(xheti, 27 September 2010 10:21)

LOL, no! What they let everyone know is:

"We bow to the pressure from America so we issue a statement which does please them to a JUST sufficient degree, but at the same time we have no balls to admit it. In the fact, we have no balls to admit anything or it's opposite. So there you are: it is not illegal to say 'I am independent' - but we have no balls to judge, are you independent legally or not".

Now everyone can regard the things as they like to.

But the fact is: no one did remove officially the UNMIK as the highest authority. Probably no one will be able to do it because for that you need the UNSC support, with China and Russia. And they will say "no" for the same reason USA will say "yes". Hence, UNMIK is officially there. And since Serbian Telecom got the permission from UNMIK, it's not illegal, at least not from the UNSC point of view. It's - like most of things - is in limbo there. Understand if you want to see things being cleared off. But not by such methods. You expect Kosovo Serbs cooperate with the people hurting them?

Otherwise I am still short of breath reading Roberto's posting... So even if Kosovo Serbs are being hurt and Serbian property - otherwise licensed by UNMIK - destroyed - this in your opinion the best occasion to slam the victims? Amazing...

In regards to the comment about Albanians living in Kosovo for centuries. Just a little over 100 years ago, Kosovo had a Serbian majority, and a few decades before that, Kosovo was 80-90% Serbian.

The Albanian population became the majority in 100 years with decade after decade of intimidation, murder and other criminal activities againsts Serbs and those of other nationalities. Criminal activities and murder performed by Albanians that increased severely during the two World Wars, in both cases riding on the coat tails and with support of the foreign attackers. Between and after those wars, the same criminal activities continued and again increased in the war last decade.

In addition to the murder and intimidation, Albanians increased their population by continuing to illegally enter Kosovo from Albania and also having lots of children.

So I guess the moral of the story is if you want to take land from somebody else, you just need to murder and intimidate them and continue to bring your friends to the land and have lots of kids, and in a 100 years or so, you can take their land with the help of whatever oppressor happens to come around at that time.

"the best thing would be...all serbs go...(but we dont know where)..."
marie

Mary, from the money the Serbian Government spent on so-called paralel institutions and the money to undermine the Kosovo institutions most of you could have been resetled in Serbia. But apparently your welbeing was not the highest priority.

Quite an assumption and quite a statement.
(JohnnyC, 26 September 2010 17:55)


There are no assumptions in my statement because I know when I see the grubby little fingers of that useless and bankrupt fighter of freedom and democracy at work.

You see the negotiations that took part involving the Resolution did include a concession on the part of the US on status of Kosovo simply because the US was not sure it could “pull off” what it wanted in the UN. It’s now too weak to be able to do exactly that – it could have in the 1990s but not now.

This is only a provocation by the US to halt all discussions – you see it done regularly in the Middle East. The Middle East peace talkfest is now over since the Jews started expanding new settlements – so much for Obama’s peace talks. It’s the same old tactic over and over again.

As far the US deaths in Afghanistan are concerned get ready for many dozens very soon after the recent bombing in Iran and the cyber attack on their computers – CIA buffoons couldn’t tie their shoelaces without an instruction book and a flashlight. Their grubby little fingers are all over this.

It's a normal action for the Kosova authorities to do so. Kosova is indipendent.

Jim,
I agree with you that the ICJ did not rule on the legality of secession, but rather just on the legality of Kosovo's declaration of independence (which was precisely the question Serbia put before the court).

However, one fundamental underpinning of all legal systems is that anything that is not explicitly defined by law as being illegal is in fact legal. Therefore, by saying that Kosovo's declaration of independence does not violate international law (or any UN resolutions for that matter, since they considered that as well and stated it as part of their opionion), they are stating that it is legal. There is no gray area on the declaration of independence. By being declared not illegal, the declaration itself is completely and unambiguously legal.

Now, that does not mean that secession is a done deal, which is why everyone is approaching the negotiating table. Kosovo wants a divorce from Serbia, and now the details of how to care for the dependents and who gets what must be worked out.

(Simpatiku, 27 September 2010 20:16)
Kosovo is not more independent than my back yard. Me and my family claims that my garden is independent....So what. Countries are recognized by United Nations only, have their own telephone code, have borders and not boundaries, are members of the UN, Olympic games, European song contest, have valid passports in the whole world, have own internet code etc etc etc. Let the people in Kosovo believe that they have an own country. It matters not one bit. Another thing. The destruction of tele equipment is very good for the upcoming status negotiations. That is for the Serbs. We will see.

# It's a normal action for the Kosova authorities to do so. Kosova is indipendent.
(Berati, 27 September 2010 13:03)
==================

Oh we all know that it's a normal thing for K-Albanians to do. Aren't you ashamed of that?

Glenn - you are right in terms of legality. But my point was more subtle than this and focused on the use of language. I was referring to the fact that many KAs keep saying that the Court said that Kosovo's independence in 'legal'. My point was that it did not say this at all. Indeed, it did not even use the word 'legal' to describe the declaration of independence. It simply said that it did not violate international law. There is, as you recognise, a subtle, but important, difference between the two statements - even if the legal effects are ultimately the same. The former is more equivocal than the latter.

Put this way, it is not that I think you are right (as I have pointed out, there are differing interpretations of the scope of my comments), I just don't believe that you are wrong (speaking from a legal perspective)! :-)

The elimination and neutralization of illegal operators in territory of Kosovo is done by Kosovo special police force.
(Simpatiku, 27 September 2010 20:16)
====================

You don't have to explain to me what happened. I know. I can read.
I am merely stating how it all looks to anyone else besides K-Albanians.

Please step into the 21st century.

for tonito and all other who support Kosovo so called state
How did you become state?With violence nothing more how will your so called state end with violence of course,when US and EU realise what they have done they will leave you

all will be built up better, stronger and more modern than it has been before, when we take over again.

when the Serbs liberated their land from the Ottomans, they brought modern electricity whith them, modern water supply, and built new streets and roads.

it will be the same improvement, when Serbia takes over again from the K-albanian extremists in Pristina.

just a question of time.

That is exactly what I tried to remind you that you must step in 21st century.
Does 21st century mean that I can come to Australia, build a tower with bunch of antennas and provide mobile commnication services by ignoring Australian institutions?
(Simpatiku, 28 September 2010 08:32)
=====================

Of course not, but it also means that you cannot come here and destroy what is already here.
Do you get my point?

(Jim, 28 September 2010 06:14)

Jim,

About ICJ and our independence, i understand that it's not worth it trying to convince you anything, cause we all know that Serbia itself don't want to accept something they asked for. Its you who questioned the issue to ICJ, and now that it's not in your favor, you are trying to say that no it didn't vote in favor of secession. Maybe you should ask ICJ again another question so it can give it's verdict again.For the end i would suggest you come and visit Kosova and you will see itself the real situation.
As fore those who are trying to put the telephony thing in humanitarian grounds i want to point a few things,for your information, we showed a lot of humanity about this issu, i will mention a few for you:
*we let serbs have ilegal operators for more than 10 years ( Kosova's budget lost more than 20 milions of dollars each year because of this)
* The local serbs and serbian operators were warned about this so many times and they didn't do anything to voluntarily remove these towers and equipment so they could use somewere in Serbia,
* Kosova's serbs were offered free SIM cards so they could communicate with 5 Euros on each of this SIM.
If you see this above , you will se how generous we were about this issue.
Last but not leased, do you know that serbian operators uses frequency channels that often interferes and makes a lot of problems for legal operators

And the Serbian government wants to negotiate with these criminals. They should be ashamed of themselves to sit down at the same table as people who are terrorising Serbs in Kosovo on a daily basis. Shame on you Tadic!
(Mikael C, 26 September 2010 12:01) Well who is here a real criminal !!!!! would you allowed someone come to your house and use your property or still something from you if yes obviously I'm"wrong", and kosovo isn't a toy of Serbia anymore and Kosovo should arrest those people who invade kosovo property i one thing i feel sorry for taking such long time taking this action against Serbian telecom

Recognised by ICJ to do what? Destroy property and behave like bullies?

(Peggy, 27 September 2010
05:26)

Peggy
For 90% of Kosovo population, Kosovo is independent country and hence the Kosovo institution according to this will are expected to destroy everything that operates illegaly in territory of Kosovo.
How Kosovo is viewed by Serbia is well known, therefore we did not ask Serbian police to do something against the stance of institutions of Serbia.
The elimination and neutralization of illegal operators in territory of Kosovo is done by Kosovo special police force.

I just red some comments that i feel soo bad to read them if those are coming from the so called democratic internationals ,
For all those supporting this operation of illegal operators in kosovo imagine your neighbour coutnry taking your money from your packet will you feel so hapy to give them,, yes go on bravo this is what is called europe and we call europe????
Kosovo is indipendent you like or you dont like

I want to write one last comment about this issue, ICJ answered positively on the question made by Serbia itself right, it's not our foult you didn't ask another question of that one, so this makes declaring our independence legal. If we make a small comparison, Montenegro have so many things in common with Serbia, they have the same religion, the same language, almost half the population of Montenegro is serbian and they couldn't live together in one state. How can you expect us (totally different like different religion, language,everything different from serbs and Serbia ) to live together or worse under Serbia ( i didn't mention war crimes and other things).
Finaly, illegal operators interfere in legal one's frequency spectrum making this way problems for legal ones to operate

You don't have to explain to me what happened. I know. I can read.
I am merely stating how it all looks to anyone else besides K-Albanians.

Please step into the 21st century.
(Peggy, 27 September 2010 22:54)

That is exactly what I tried to remind you that you must step in 21st century.
Does 21st century mean that I can come to Australia, build a tower with bunch of antennas and provide mobile commnication services by ignoring Australian institutions?

Tonito = Berati.

Xheti,

Why not make your own local mini-EU, by the way? You maybe will join the big bureaucratic one in ten years - but not even in 100 years you (or us in other close-by parts of this continent) will have the same mechanisms and same salaries like Germans do have. For the next 100 years we are set to be the second-class citizens of an organization which is increasingly alienated to own people.

You have the possibility to make an other EU and you can expect countries historically close to you to be there.

I accept if you do not want a big daddy in Belgrade to micro-manage you. But there are certain conditions I would set. And I am strictly agains artificial new borders where there wasn't any. So there should be free movement of the people, goods and services to begin with. In an ideal world you vote for people in Belgrade or Tirana or both, to your liking. No physical borders, you can go and visit anyone in the area without being stopped at some place due "border control". Reasonable, not rip-off taxes. And non-intrusive governments which do not want to do a physical exam on you in search of 10 Euro you hid from Big Brother. There are countries where that is close to the reality. Not necessary big and famous ones. You can achieve that. But the more it's about the "Balkan mentality", the further you are from that. This case is an example of the million times mentioned Balkan mentality. does not help anyone except the few corrupt guys who organized it.

Xheti - you didn't answer my question. We all know what KAs want, and why they believe they should have it, but this is not what I asked you. Can you please show us all the part of the ICJ opinion that says that Kosovo is independent? Not the part that says that the UDI, as a mere statement, was not illegal, but the bit that says that Kosovo is a legal state - as you claim the Court said.

Kosovo is not more independent than my back yard. Me and my family claims that my garden is independent....So what. Countries are recognized by United Nations only, have their own telephone code, have borders and not boundaries, are members of the UN, Olympic games, European song contest, have valid passports in the whole world, have own internet code etc etc etc. Let the people in Kosovo believe that they have an own country. It matters not one bit. Another thing. The destruction of tele equipment is very good for the upcoming status negotiations. That is for the Serbs. We will see.
(Staff, 27 September 2010 22:30)

Staff
I understand you. It is not for you but it is for 90% (majority) of population. As for passports what you said is pure lie. Although with visa regime, Kosovo passport is recognized by over 90 countries of the world despite the fact tha all these countries did not recognize the independence of Kosovo. Let me remind you that Kosovo passport is recognized even by the countries that are supporters of Serbia such as: Vietnam, Lybia and Egipt.
As for European Song Contest, having own internet code and participation in Olympic games all of this will become true after Kosovo gets membership in UN. Do not forget that Kosovo has declared its independence less than 3 years ago. It took at least 5 years for Croatia and Slovenian to take part in Eurosong if you remember.
Also do not forget that 11 years ago Kosovo did not have even an s from the status that it has now, but things have progressed.
As for the status talks there will not be any status talks according to the resolution adopted by UN GA. According to the same resolution the talks will only be technical between two independent countries. Remember Russian was surprised.

Of course not, but it also means that you cannot come here and destroy what is already here.
Do you get my point?
(Peggy, 28 September 2010 12:42)

Yes I do. Do you imply that majority of population of Kosovo just came from somewhere or fell down from the sky and decided to impose something?
The population of Kosovo has been here much longer than somebody started dreaming on mobile communication. These illegal operators were given enough time to get licensed and start paying the taxes just like other two operators. You ignore the authorities and this is what you get.
Albanians in Preseva and Bujanovac do not have providers from Kosovo. Is this also a violation of fundamental right on free communication?
The licenses are not eternal. Even in Serbia they have to be renewed from time to time.

"Countries are recognized by United Nations only..."

--This is not factually true.

To answer Jugoslavia. You've had 10 years to remove the installation. You've had about 5 months since the last time an action was taken and you were warned. So what we had was to options.

1. Telekom Serbija enters in a contractual agreement with PTK and all this wouldn't happen.

2. Removal of all the installations. Once remove you or anybody else have no say as to what happens with them. They are seized and it is in the hands of the authorities to do what they think is best.

Of course as always Serbia comes up with some ridiculous overreacting scenario. A contractual deal of Telekom Serbija with PTK does not mean recognition of Kosova. We as Albanians keep telling you that. Try telling that to a Serb though. Well if you don't wanna make a contract nobody cant let you behave as if nothing has happened. Thats pretty simple.

"Yes I do. Do you imply that majority of population of Kosovo just came from somewhere or fell down from the sky and decided to impose something?
The population of Kosovo has been here much longer than somebody started dreaming on mobile communication. These illegal operators were given enough time to get licensed and start paying the taxes just like other two operators. You ignore the authorities and this is what you get."
=====================

I see, so with this logic all the churches and monasteries should be demolished as well because they certainly did not get Thaci's permission to be built.
They don't make a profit for K-Albanians so they have to go.
Anything that is not Albanian and has no permission of Albanians to be there must go.
Where do you draw the line?

Besides, Kosovo is still Serbian territory no matter what you and the US say. Who made Thaci ruler of that land? Clinton, Bush and Obama are not rulers of the world and don't decide who has what. This will become evident to you soon enough.

You don't have to explain to me what happened. I know. I can read.
I am merely stating how it all looks to anyone else besides K-Albanians.

Please step into the 21st century.
(Peggy, 27 September 2010 22:54)
You are just saying what it looks like to Serbians not what it looks like to anyone but K-Albanians, if you remember last time when Serbia tried to play it up as a humanitarian crisis (hospital without phone lines etc) what was the reaction from the international community? That the Kosovo authorities should have given more notice not that they should not have done it.
Your thought process is not shared by the rest of the world.

Besides, Kosovo is still Serbian territory no matter what you and the US say. Who made Thaci ruler of that land? Clinton, Bush and Obama are not rulers of the world and don't decide who has what. This will become evident to you soon enough.
(Peggy, 29 September 2010 06:48)

Unfortunately I don't have the same prediction "abilities" like you. The least to say the status of Kosovo became evident to you the moment Serbia decided to withdraw resolution that was contrary to majority of EU and surely to the will of people of Kosovo. This will become formally evident to you sooner than you even expect. As for your question: Who made Thaci the ruler of Kosovo the answer is: The people of Kosovo in very democratic elections held in 2007. The way you said Kosovo is Serbian land that is just your opinion. Like I said for me and majority of people of Kosovo, Kosovo is independent and institutions of Kosovo are expected to exercise this will in all fields of life. Surely they are not expected to excercise your will which is understandable and being that, it is surely not the reason for your frustration.

Hence, UNMIK is officially there. And since Serbian Telecom got the permission from UNMIK, it's not illegal, at least not from the UNSC point of view. It's - like most of things - is in limbo there.
(Ataman, 27 September 2010 17:21)

slow there... where did you find such a thing that UNMIK gave them the permission. UNMIK has not given any permission to Serbia mobile operators to do business in Kosovo.

UNMIK has clearly stated years ago that Telekom of Serbia is an illegal operator in Kosovo (see below, page 2).

http://www.unmikonline.org/DPI/Transcripts.nsf/0/39C95D56D65843E0C12572210045D967/$FILE/tr081106.pdf

Countries are recognized by United Nations only, have their own telephone code, have borders and not boundaries, are members of the UN, Olympic games, European song contest, have valid passports in the whole world, have own internet code etc etc etc. Let the people in Kosovo believe that they have an own country. It matters not one bit.
(Staff, 27 September 2010 22:30)

Recognizing countries is one of the things the UN can’t do. Only countries can recognize countries. You don’t need to have a PhD in International Law to understand that. It’s useless to continue with the rest of the statement since its wrong at the start… None of the factors you write above are part of the 4 criteria required by international law (as codified in the Montevideo Convention) for something to be considered a country.

Just a simple example to show that you are wrong: You say "Countries...are members of the UN". Switzerland was not a UN member until 2002. Are you saying Switzerland became a country in 2002 ?!!!

"Kosovo Albanian authorities several times this year incapacitated transmitters of Serbian mobile operators claiming they had no license to operate."

Serbia and its representative in Kosovo should have know by now the score. You can not allow illegal operators doing "their work" because Serbia and Kosovo are in the process of negotiations. That's got to be stopped.

Kosovo's main telecom and largest mobile operator (PTK) is for sale and companies who are interested want telecom srbija out ASAP, simple as that.

Whether Serbs want or not this is a starting point to remove the Serbian garbage from Kosovo. This is in favour of Kosovo Albanians and Serbs. This is not only in favour of Serb politicians and criminals that work under their supervision.

--With that said this "young European" is telling you to stop being bitter until the Serb telecommunications company gets a license to operate legally in Kosova. As long as they operate illegally under our laws they will be cut for the reasons I explained above. The analogy would be PTK operating in Presheva Valley without a license. This is exactly how ridiculous your claims are.
(johny, 26 September 2010 18:12)

thanks johny, and others, for patiently explaining what IS going on in Kosova and what is not. some sanity in the midst of all the shark attacks.

and the wording of the "news" article, province this, and province that. i mean really, if i wanted to read blgd regime press releases i'd go str8t to the source! why bother w an intermediary?

the other side is determined to continue and grow parallel institutions inside Kosova, contrary to the laws and regulations of that country. i really don't give a hoot whether you like the current leadership in pristina or not. i myself am ambivalent, but that is irrelevant. every country has laws and regulations -- follow them or get out!

let there be no doubt -- the people of kosova are still under attack by serbia, visa vis the blgd regime and their proxies -- mup agents galore, businesses etc. they can't use their terror forces against us directly (thank god for nato, at least in the balkans!) so they attack us in every other way. that's what thy admit to, so why bother lying about it?

as for other countries, businesses investing in kosova, that's something we are hoping and planning for, but that is THEIR decision, not that of the serbian extremists. the balkans in general has not proven esp.ly attractive for foreign investors (unless you count slovenia :), esp.ly as the main aggressor continues in every way possible to destabilize its neighbors, kosova and bosnia. this must stop, and we intrnl's must put a stop to it. tough love, folks, very tough, is the only effective way to deal with the blgd regime, and to eventually improve the lives of the common people, for whom they could care less.

ciao!
roberto / frisco

It is obvious that the Pristina Albanians do not want to have negotiations with Belgrade. I am totally speechless at the thug-like behavior of Thaci and co., but not surprised. Only when Pristina chooses educated, capable, forward-looking representatives, can there be real negotiations concerning Kosovo. This thug, a KLA leader, only knows to rule with force. Finding peace in Kosovo will be a long hard process, if ever.
(winston, 26 September 2010 13:18)
Really winston,,,
Well this 'KLA' people that you are refering are not doing what should be done,,what would you say if we would install our network infrastructure in Presheva valley,,would Serbia be happy about it, would you allow it????

Serbian companies thought that they can get away with this, but now it is hardball time. Pay or stay out. No negotiations!

Funny how Belgrade is looking for ways to compromise while all Pristina can do is look for ways to terrorize. Please tell me again how this government represents the "youngest Europeans"? Please enlighten me and a number of others how this is going to pave the way towards a "new chapter" in reconciliation among Albanians and Serbs? Please tell me how this is not blind aggression? And please tell me why I and the outside world should support this.
(Mike, 26 September 2010 16:18)

Mike I sense you're becoming Kostunica like with every passing day. You know the explanation but you're too high on emotions and hence you make baseless accusations. I will explain.

1. We in Kosova see ourselves as independent. As an independent country
we have telecommunication laws that determine whether a telecommunications company is operating legally or illegally in the state of Kosova. The Serb telecommunication company is operating illegally according to these laws. This should not be allowed to continue because:

a) It is unfair competition to all the other legal operators in Kosova since the Serb telecommunication company pays no taxes, pays no rent for the land it uses, or has not payed anything to get a licence hence this causes a problem in terms of competition for the other companies that have invested millions of dollars.

b)Allowing illegal operators in your state also speaks about the capabilities that you as a state have. This becomes especially important when there is a telecommunication company in Kosova up for sale and there is an international bid going on. The presence of illegal operators (operators that are unlicensed in Kosova) greatly reduces the value of such bids. This is bad for the budget of the government of Kosova.

c) Only two weeks ago the Serb telecomunication company which operates in Kosova illegally threatened all of those that are bidding for PTK that it will sue them because as they stated PTK is Serb property. This being the case makes it clear that the Serb telecommunication company cannot be allowed to operate in Kosova.

2) This is directly the result of the policies of the state of Serbia. The state of Serbia with its policies aims and works tirelessly to create parallel institutions in Kosova. Since it is clear that Serbia will not recognize an independent Kosova in our lifetimes, such parallel institutions are a threat to the state of Kosova since they strengthen the presence of the Serbian state in Kosova. As such it is only logical to eradicate the presence of the Serbian state in Kosova. This becomes even more important to do when talks about technical issues ( presence of parallel Serb institutions) are about to commence. We cannot allow the Serb state to impose such institutions on us while they are working on strengthening them every day. It is high time we made it clear that the position of the Serb state cannot start by further strengthening the parallel institutions that are present now. So what we are doing is weakening them in order to come to what we consider a middle of the road thing.

With that said this "young European" is telling you to stop being bitter until the Serb telecommunications company gets a licence to operate legally in Kosova. As long as they operate illegally under our laws they will be cut for the reasons I explained above. The analogy would be PTK operating in Presheva Valley without a licence. This is exactly how ridiculous your claims are.

Well done KPS.
This is a very good job.

And the Serbian government wants to negotiate with these criminals. They should be ashamed of themselves to sit down at the same table as people who are terrorising Serbs in Kosovo on a daily basis. Shame on you Tadic!

A bad example, not a valid comparison. It's more like: You install some infrastructure in a region, and after some years, some people come and tell "we are independent now, you are not allowed to do your business any more, stop it or we will destroy your property"
(Top, 26 September 2010 17:20)
Well well, these some people you are refering to actully are the people who lived here for centuries, and it's these people who's right is recognised now even by ICJ.

We have again the same criminals in Kosovo trying to operate without a license.

I believe the workers of these illegal institutions should also be arrested.

Any other nation would view the destruction of communications equipment in part of its sovereign territory as an act of war - so why not Serbia?
KFOR, the UN, NATO, and every other pro-albanian force in Kosovo is doing nothing to provide even handed protection, so why shouldn't Serbia mobilise her troops to ensure peace? If the K-albs want to be rulers, then they have to accept that modern governments can't choose who they treat fairly and who they don't - this isn't 1800, and they're not the ottomans!
KFOR is a toothless tiger, now is the time to march south, end the sacreligious pillage of our churches, and restore the rule of law in this godless nation where the thieves have been given the keys to to the city.

A bad example, not a valid comparison. It's more like: You install some infrastructure in a region, and after some years, some people come and tell "we are independent now, you are not allowed to do your business any more, stop it or we will destroy your property"
(Top, 26 September 2010 17:20)

Bad example. It is more like you install some infrastructure. Fire everyone of the other ethnicity that works there. Then send in tanks, airplanes, army, police, military forces to kill them. Ethnically cleanse 1 million of them; destroy and light their houses on fire. Then after all this happens some years later you come and tell " it doesn't matter that we tried to kill you and that we destroyed your homes; we are allowed to do whatever we want and what we do is our business only. As far as we're concerned nothing happened"

This reflects things better.

Let the whole world see the nature of Kosovo Albanians who only know how to destroy things, only a few days after all the countries at the UN voted for a peaceful solution of the Kosovo issue.

Funny how Belgrade is looking for ways to compromise while all Pristina can do is look for ways to terrorize. Please tell me again how this government represents the "youngest Europeans"? Please enlighten me and a number of others how this is going to pave the way towards a "new chapter" in reconciliation among Albanians and Serbs? Please tell me how this is not blind aggression? And please tell me why I and the outside world should support this.

It is obvious that the Pristina Albanians do not want to have negotiations with Belgrade. I am totally speechless at the thug-like behavior of Thaci and co., but not surprised. Only when Pristina chooses educated, capable, forward-looking representatives, can there be real negotiations concerning Kosovo. This thug, a KLA leader, only knows to rule with force. Finding peace in Kosovo will be a long hard process, if ever.

Wonder how much Madeline Albright and that posse in the Albright group has to do with this. All about lining the pockets of the self labeled champions of freedom and liberty perhaps. If Serbia is to fix this it has to fix itself get rid of the losers in Beograd.

Such vandalism is always a reaction of frustration at inevitable long-term defeat

All this is happening under the auspices (and the secret blessing) of EULEX. I'm so happy that we are friends with such people...

Every single day there is a new provocation, a new act of destruction or violence yet there is always some mitigating circumstance if the victims are Serb.

The decade following the fall of Milosevic will go down in history as Serbia's missed decade. Serbia had the opportunity to rid itself of the legacies of Communism and Milosevic's gangsterism and could have reformed and progressed and not be in the position that it is in now where it is forced to accept every insult and provocation that is thrown toward it and the Serbian people as a whole.

I am a Serb living in Pristina (around 40 left)...all i can say...K-Albanians...come back ...what about us??..yes things happen during wars..there arent winners and losers...no phones, no ...freedom of movement...i experience violence every day...the best thing would be...all serbs go...(but we dont know where)...and leave kosovo to albanians...what about some basic human rights..does anyone thinks about that..what about properties..our houses..equality....our homes...where is international community...albanians got what they wanted...their state..what about ..serbs??...or we will pe put under the carpet as usual??

It's a normal action for the Kosova authorities to do so. Kosova is indipendent.

After the huge ethnic cleansing campaign conducted by KLA terrorists and NATO how many Serbians are left in Kosovo? 5%? and since this only affects the south can we say 2% to 3% of the population? Well, if Kosovo's telecom company is up for sale, why should anyone care about this 2%?

This isn't about some sale but it's just another provocation by terrorists dressed in suits and NATO. This sows further seeds for future conflict and is a sign that some people are scared of negotiations. What a cowardly act.

"the best thing would be...all serbs go...(but we dont know where)..."
marie

Mary, from the money the Serbian Government spent on so-called paralel institutions and the money to undermine the Kosovo institutions most of you could have been resetled in Serbia. But apparently your welbeing was not the highest priority.

Don't forget that Serbs have lived in Kosovo for centuries as well. They even named the place which suggests that your lot was not very significant in that area because you haven't left a mark there while the Serbs have built a civilisation.

ICJ has only stated that declaring independence is not againt the law not actually being able to take a chunk of Serbia and pretend it's another country.
Why do you guys always keep mixing the two up?
(Peggy, 27 September 2010 05:26)
Peggy,
Actually ICJ let everyone know that Kosovo is independent even legally now, and this is a call for some people to wake up and face reality. Taking care about legal issues and clearing the environment from illegal operators is one fundamental duty of each independent country. You should understand that cellar phones and services operates on wireless spectrum which should be controlled and licensed, otherwise it will be a mess and nobody would be able to operate.

I smell the united sates of windbags at it again. That's why I celebrate each US death in Iraq and Afghaistan with gusto.

(sj, 26 September 2010 14:08)
Recommend (+16)Poor comment (-6)

Quite an assumption and quite a statement.

"Kosovo's main telecom and largest mobile operator (PTK) is for sale and companies who are interested want telecom srbija out ASAP, simple as that."
(Pejoni, 26 September 2010 13:28)

That might be the reason, but why the hell should any company be interested in investing in Kosovo when it must always have to fear that the thugs in the government one fine day will come up with a new "law" and declare its business for "illegal" and destroy its property?

"The current situation is that central Kosovo is without mobile service..." = This is WRONG. I just triple checked, my mobile phone is working... others too... I guess, some individuals, leaded by dreams of the how and what Kosovo was before '99 can not understand, is no licence that's equal to ILLEGAL... Can kosovo operators operate in Serbia without licence?!!! One of posters wrote about difficult life in Kosovo, human rights etc.... I am trying to understand him... And many others that are consistently arguing against Kosovo institutions, avoiding payment of bills (electricity bills, property taxes, taxes on incomes, taxis on profit etc) and still claiming they are persecuted, even though, they still have electricity, their roads are being asphalted, Kosovo companies are cleaning their "gardens"... But when it comes to payment, they claim Kosovo is Serbia and they don't want to pay for anything... Wake up... It is not 1999, it is not 1981... Now we live in 2010, Kosovo is state and all institutions are legal. If one does not have registered business in Kosovo, he/she operates illegally. These antennas would have been removed long time ago in any other state. Kosovo waited for a long time, asking all providers to register their business, but I guess, earning "free of charge" is much better than paying taxes and that's why, they want to keep these antennas and earn as much as possible. I am against illegal operations and as such, I believe this was right think to do. Remember, just few months ago, legal operators in Kosovo offered free simcards to Kosovo Serbs, just so they would not have any cost while transferring from one in to another provider. They were some benefiting from this offer, and they want to have "063" operating... Come one... Be realistic...

Well well, these some people you are refering to actully are the people who lived here for centuries, and it's these people who's right is recognised now even by ICJ.
(Xheti, 26 September 2010 19:48)
====================

Recognised by ICJ to do what? Destroy property and behave like bullies?

Don't forget that Serbs have lived in Kosovo for centuries as well. They even named the place which suggests that your lot was not very significant in that area because you haven't left a mark there while the Serbs have built a civilisation.

ICJ has only stated that declaring independence is not againt the law not actually being able to take a chunk of Serbia and pretend it's another country.
Why do you guys always keep mixing the two up?

johny,

Ok, let’s assume that behind the heavy-handed tactics Pristina likes to play from time to time, let’s say that aside from a move that is clearly provocative and something that were it performed by Milošević you and others would be ranting and raving, and let’s say that beyond any quick and easy attempt at putting one’s power over another outside normal diplomatic channels, which Pristina has proven itself ready to do, all of this really is an effort in “cleaning” up Kosovo’s economy and getting rid of what we can call economic poachers. Let’s run with this…

First is the issue of licenses which Albanians love to use as a reason whenever attempts at destroying the phone lines are attempted. We’re not exactly talking about the most economically transparent region of Europe here and how many companies – Albanian run companies – are operating in Kosovo without proper licenses? Let’s put it another way: how much money does it take to get a license in Kosovo, knowing the money is really going to pay certain cartels for protection. Telekom Srbija doesn’t so much have a “license” (it does actually, it resides in Belgrade but you just don’t recognize it) as it’s not paying its share to Pristina. Please do not even attempt to lecture on economic transparency and “illegal” companies here. This is Kosovo, not Switzerland. “Licenses” is a diplomatic way of saying “clientelism”. You want to clean up the economy? Start with your own camp first.

Second, knowing the small percentage of people that use Telekom Srbija, how much money do you really think Prisitna is losing? I mean are they that much of a competitor that you have to physically destroy their property? And you speak of international bids for phone service in Kosovo. Like Ataman and Zoran, I can believe that, but why is it that companies are hesitant to put their money in Kosovo? Not because of a “rogue” phone company giving service to little more than 50,000 people, but because of the utter corruption that permeates the system and is occasionally augmented by heavy-handed tactics like this. You really think this is going to lure more bidders to Kosovo? Particularly when you know as well as I that Telekom will remain in the north? This is a smokescreen to hide larger more endemic issues. And to make matters worse, your government took what could have been a “light-weight” issue (phone service) and made it into a political issue. Good going there.

Third, don’t start with the “parallel structures” nonsense. “Kosova” would not be where it is today if it weren’t for parallel structures of its own dating back to the early 1980s. Don’t accuse me of sounding like Koštunica where you’re complaining about people thumbing their nose at your authority through popularly-supported alternative institutions instead the ones you want them to be a part of; institutions that have done absolutely nothing in winning the Serbs over. One’s “parallel institutions” are the other’s “legitimate authority”, so don’t waste your time trying to argue Kosovo’s institutions are any more legal than Serbia’s. You know as well as I that the upcoming talks are basically going to acknowledge both institutions for the sake of stability, so stop sounding like an Albanian variant of Milošević.

There are more mature and practical ways for solving this problem. You know as well as I that in that part of Europe, everything can operate with a little money thrown here and there. So what, Telekom wasn’t paying enough of a kickback? PTK doesn’t know how to alter the transmitter frequencies? You want a cut of the action? Contact Telekom’s representatives and haggle over a deal. Albanians get money, and Serbs get to say they use “their” phone serving in “their” province. Everyone’s happy. Destroy the towers and it becomes another source of conflict. By politicizing this, Pristina never looks beyond short-term victories since the towers will probably be back up in a week or two and will now most certainly be an issue in the negotiation settlement.

And in a hypothetical situation in which PTK operated in Presevo – which I really wouldn’t be surprised could happen knowing Belgrade’s proclivity to let Albanians do whatever they want (schools there are using Albanian published books, so there’s your “parallel structures”) – I daresay you and most other Albanian supporters of the law would look kindly on Belgrade dismantling the transmitters and forcing the population to use Telekom, I may be wrong, but licenses or not, legality or not, something tells me your comments wouldn’t really be thinking about licenses or “legitimate” institutions.

Mike,

It is funny to see you going into one of those long lectures of yours and trying to justify why Serbs s/b above the laws of Kosovo. The bottom line is that regardless of the number of users of the Serbian talacom compliance with the Kosovo licencing has to be respected.
None compliance - as it is currently - will not bring the Serbs any sympathy in Western countries.

Oh, the next provocation. And probably a good advertising for companies who consider to invest in the independent dream state of Kosovo.

And the Serbian government wants to negotiate with these criminals. They should be ashamed of themselves to sit down at the same table as people who are terrorising Serbs in Kosovo on a daily basis. Shame on you Tadic!
(Mikael C, 26 September 2010 12:01) Well who is here a real criminal !!!!! would you allowed someone come to your house and use your property or still something from you if yes obviously I'm"wrong", and kosovo isn't a toy of Serbia anymore and Kosovo should arrest those people who invade kosovo property i one thing i feel sorry for taking such long time taking this action against Serbian telecom

johny,

"Ok, let’s assume that behind the heavy-handed tactics Pristina likes to play from time to time, let’s say that aside from a move that is clearly provocative and something that were it performed by Milošević you and others would be ranting and raving, and let’s say that beyond any quick and easy attempt at putting one’s power over another outside normal diplomatic channels, which Pristina has proven itself ready to do, all of this really is an effort in “cleaning” up Kosovo’s economy and getting rid of what we can call economic poachers. Let’s run with this… "

-- Lots of assumptions there. Not all are necessary true.

"First is the issue of licenses which Albanians love to use as a reason whenever attempts at destroying the phone lines are attempted. We’re not exactly talking about the most economically transparent region of Europe here and how many companies – Albanian run companies – are operating in Kosovo without proper licenses? Let’s put it another way: how much money does it take to get a license in Kosovo, knowing the money is really going to pay certain cartels for protection. Telekom Srbija doesn’t so much have a “license” (it does actually, it resides in Belgrade but you just don’t recognize it) as it’s not paying its share to Pristina. Please do not even attempt to lecture on economic transparency and “illegal” companies here. This is Kosovo, not Switzerland. “Licenses” is a diplomatic way of saying “clientelism”. You want to clean up the economy? Start with your own camp first. "

-- Bad way of seeing things. You start with those which claim that residing in Belgrade gives them a free pass to do anything in Kosova, hence no licence needed. One because that myth has to be destroyed. A Belgrade address will not be allowed to make anyone immune to Kosova's laws. A Belgrade address will not be allowed to be held as some sort of a universal free pass to do whatever you want in Kosova. If you want to do that do it in Belgrade. There are other people living in Kosova hence other rules. Two because this is a threat to 95% of Kosovars who see Kosova as their own state. See you don't recognize Kosova's authority because you choose to. Telekom Serbija has chosen to not get a licence because they were ordered by Tadic and Jeremic thinking that would mean recognition of Kosova; hence by not getting a licence Telekom Serbia not only disregards the laws in Kosova but it disregards its existence as a state. This clearly is not a money issue for Serbia. It is both a money issue but more importantly an existential issue for us. You deny our existence in this case through a state company; we'll make sure you know we're here. These are the repercussions of those choices, of those policies Serbia chooses to pursue. You learn to live with it. We are simply responding by not recognizing Belgrade. There is nothing to be angry about here. You make your choices, we respond with ours. Its very simple, really.

"Second, knowing the small percentage of people that use Telekom Srbija, how much money do you really think Prisitna is losing? I mean are they that much of a competitor that you have to physically destroy their property? And you speak of international bids for phone service in Kosovo. Like Ataman and Zoran, I can believe that, but why is it that companies are hesitant to put their money in Kosovo? Not because of a “rogue” phone company giving service to little more than 50,000 people, but because of the utter corruption that permeates the system and is occasionally augmented by heavy-handed tactics like this. You really think this is going to lure more bidders to Kosovo? Particularly when you know as well as I that Telekom will remain in the north? This is a smokescreen to hide larger more endemic issues. And to make matters worse, your government took what could have been a “light-weight” issue (phone service) and made it into a political issue. Good going there."

-- Few things to discuss here. I'll start from the end. This turned into a political issue the very moment the state of Serbia instructed its state owned companies that any contractual agreement with Kosova authorities means implicit or explicit recognition of the state of Kosova. It was a good try of playing the naive card Mike, but you know this is the case and we all know here that you are not naive enough to claim to not be aware of this. This is also the case with the electric company. A simple contractual agreement with PTK or KEK and all of these disappear. As always the Serb side has to be ridiculous and overreact and tie a company contract to independence. Stupid move.
Also the money PTK or the Kosova government loses are not in the subscriptions of the Serbs. That amount of money isn't considerable when it comes to cell phone service. The money it loses is very considerable when it comes to bids for companies that are up for sale. So while corruption makes things harder( it is blatant in Serbia as well; we can stop acting), bids decrease in value when a company knows that it has to enter in a market where foreign owned companies can operate under different rules from them. The incentive to invest under such conditions disappears. They might as well invest and get a Belgrade address operate illegally in Kosova, while claiming to be immune from Kosova's laws because they have that Belgrade address. Such a thing cannot and will not be allowed to run rampant.
Lastly as I said earlier this is also an existential issue for us. The state or government of Serbia denies our existence outside of Serbia's constitutional framework. As such it instructs its state companies to behave in a fashion where our existence, our rules, our laws are inexistent. Hence you have Telekom Serbija threatening to sue anyone who bids for PTK. The logical move of course is simply to make sure that you know that we do exist, and we do that by eliminating threats that do harm our existence and our budget. Telekom Serbija is doing both under the instruction of the Serb government.

"Third, don’t start with the “parallel structures” nonsense. “Kosova” would not be where it is today if it weren’t for parallel structures of its own dating back to the early 1980s. Don’t accuse me of sounding like Koštunica where you’re complaining about people thumbing their nose at your authority through popularly-supported alternative institutions instead the ones you want them to be a part of; institutions that have done absolutely nothing in winning the Serbs over. One’s “parallel institutions” are the other’s “legitimate authority”, so don’t waste your time trying to argue Kosovo’s institutions are any more legal than Serbia’s. You know as well as I that the upcoming talks are basically going to acknowledge both institutions for the sake of stability, so stop sounding like an Albanian variant of Milošević. "

-- I see nothing wrong with parallel institutions in theory. They are wrong however when there are some things that need to be taken into account.

1. Unlike us the Serbs weren't fired from our institutions because they are Serbs. As a matter of fact they are guaranteed participation that is way higher than their respective population in numbers. So unlike the Serbs our parallel institutions became necessary when we were denied representation in state institutions. This is not happening to Serbs today.

2. Our parallel institutions where not sponsored by any state that sought disruption. When your schools are not allowed to remain open, you find alternatives. This is not the case with the Serbs.

So while there were parallel institutions your analogies are totally wrong. Ours came to existence because we were denied representation in the state institutions. Your's exist because you choose to. Ours came to existence because Serbia forced us out of its institutions; yours came to existence because Serbia is ordering you to stay out of ours. The difference here is huge and one that we do need to emphasize.



"There are more mature and practical ways for solving this problem. You know as well as I that in that part of Europe, everything can operate with a little money thrown here and there. So what, Telekom wasn’t paying enough of a kickback? PTK doesn’t know how to alter the transmitter frequencies? You want a cut of the action? Contact Telekom’s representatives and haggle over a deal. Albanians get money, and Serbs get to say they use “their” phone serving in “their” province. Everyone’s happy. Destroy the towers and it becomes another source of conflict. By politicizing this, Pristina never looks beyond short-term victories since the towers will probably be back up in a week or two and will now most certainly be an issue in the negotiation settlement. "

-- Short sighted way of seeing things. I will repeat again. The Serb state does not allow its state owned companies to get into contractual agreements with Kosova owned companies because it believes it means implicit or explicit recognition of Kosova. You and I both know this is stupid to say the least but that's how things are. This is where all politicization starts; in the attitude of the state of Serbia and its eagerness to connect any and everything related to Kosova with status. This issue is not about kickbacks. It all comes down to the inability of Serb owned companies to enter contractual agreements with anyone from Kosova because the state of Serbia has ordered them. As I stated earlier; way to overreact on things you shouldn't. But than again this has characterized the Serb state for decades. This is simple. All Telekom needs to do is sign a contract with PTK saying that they will operate in these areas and will have these customers. Nobody on this side of the isle thinks that means recognition or anything remote to that. However leave it to the Serb and they will come up with some far fetched scenario or conspiracy theory that makes things harder for everyone.

"And in a hypothetical situation in which PTK operated in Presevo – which I really wouldn’t be surprised could happen knowing Belgrade’s proclivity to let Albanians do whatever they want (schools there are using Albanian published books, so there’s your “parallel structures”) – I daresay you and most other Albanian supporters of the law would look kindly on Belgrade dismantling the transmitters and forcing the population to use Telekom, I may be wrong, but licenses or not, legality or not, something tells me your comments wouldn’t really be thinking about licenses or “legitimate” institutions."

-- Again assumptions Mike. Too many of them. It isn't that hard to get PTK to operate in Presheva. All you need is 3 antennas on the roof of a building reinforcing signal coming from Kosova. The reason why that isn't being done is simply because of our attitude. That is Serbia. We do our things in Kosova. Your attitudes on the other hand are the opposite. You believe that a Belgrade address gives you a free pass to do anything in Kosova and makes you immune of Kosova's laws. That's what it comes down to.
Also, Belgrade isn't doing anything special. Stop kidding yourselves. Just last week Albania opened a Serb school for a village where there's roughly about 50 kids. Guess what; all their books are published in Serbia. These are no parallel structures. These are things that any country is obliged to do and what Belgrade and Tirana are doing is nothing else but meeting obligations. Belgrade is not special, Tirana is not special. These are normal things. Might not seem normal to you or might seem as Belgrade is doing Albanians one favor too many, but that is not the case. Now when it comes to Kosova it is needless to say there are Serb schools there. What you consider as a big gesture from the Serb state for allowing Albanian schools is nothing but normal. You will get used to it.

Any other nation would view the destruction of communications equipment in part of its sovereign territory as an act of war - so why not Serbia?
(James, UK, 26 September 2010 13:39)

Because MiG-29 is a pretty old design, most countries - Russia included - are phasing them out. New designs like F-22 for Americans or Su-37 for Russians are already developed.

The most modern airplanes of Serbian air force are THREE operational (they have four total) MiG-29 airplanes. The rest are basically training aircraft of much weaker design... even if they are used as fighters.

The ground forces are totally outdated, not a single modern battle tank.

This is the result not of the wars and sanctions - but rather decades of dilettante handling, in-house corruption, lack of R&D funds and other things.

Of course, other smaller ex-"Socialist" countries from "A"(lbania) to "R"(omania) are in the same shape, but they weren't exposed to any kind of military conflict. No one ever expected "Y"(ugoslavia) to be in the center of a military conflict, so it's understandable.

On the other hand the ex-"Socialist" (or not-so-ex) countries which were / are exposed to such conflict represent a serious force: NKorea, VietNam. As bad as the human rights may look in these places - NATO is coward enough NOT to intervene because Iraq and Afghanistan would look like a Sunday walk compared to, say, Viet Nam (some major country already knows it!)

--------

KFOR, the UN, NATO, and every other pro-albanian force in Kosovo is doing nothing to provide even handed protection, so why shouldn't Serbia mobilise her troops to ensure peace?
(James, UK, 26 September 2010 13:39)

If these troops would be strong enough - there wouldn't be need to mobilize anyone to begin with. The lesson of the "humanitarian bombing": every country should have a STRONG ENOUGH military force that would make anyone think twice about going into such adventures. In the case of "humanitarian bombing": if the Yugoslav air defense would be a known serious force and if NATO would count with no air supremacy and expect serious losses - "humanitarian bombing" would not happen.

Given the experience of NATO fighting in last few decades the air defense is probably a #1 priority.

-------

Kosovo's main telecom and largest mobile operator (PTK) is for sale and companies who are interested want telecom srbija out ASAP, simple as that.
(Pejoni, 26 September 2010 13:28)

Yes, I believe you - this is most likely the case. But the methods used are pretty much mafiosi methods. Or with less verbal offense: "Balkan mentality". That will haunt for a while, I am sure Serbs will remember it and given the first opportunity pay back with all interest accumulated over the time.

After the huge ethnic cleansing campaign conducted by KLA terrorists and NATO how many Serbians are left in Kosovo? 5%? and since this only affects the south can we say 2% to 3% of the population? Well, if Kosovo's telecom company is up for sale, why should anyone care about this 2%?

This isn't about some sale but it's just another provocation by terrorists dressed in suits and NATO. This sows further seeds for future conflict and is a sign that some people are scared of negotiations. What a cowardly act.
(Zoran, 26 September 2010 15:01)

My guess is that they need an absolute, 100% monopoly to get the best price. Where the money will go we all know, of course. Not disputing the political thing - but here there is also a very strong, personal economic incentive. I am sure, it's about (illegal) personal enrichment.

"Well this 'KLA' people that you are refering are not doing what should be done,,what would you say if we would install our network infrastructure in Presheva valley,,would Serbia be happy about it, would you allow it????"
(Xheti, 26 September 2010 15:43)

A bad example, not a valid comparison. It's more like: You install some infrastructure in a region, and after some years, some people come and tell "we are independent now, you are not allowed to do your business any more, stop it or we will destroy your property"

I just red some comments that i feel soo bad to read them if those are coming from the so called democratic internationals ,
For all those supporting this operation of illegal operators in kosovo imagine your neighbour coutnry taking your money from your packet will you feel so hapy to give them,, yes go on bravo this is what is called europe and we call europe????
Kosovo is indipendent you like or you dont like

Recognised by ICJ to do what? Destroy property and behave like bullies?

(Peggy, 27 September 2010
05:26)

Peggy
For 90% of Kosovo population, Kosovo is independent country and hence the Kosovo institution according to this will are expected to destroy everything that operates illegaly in territory of Kosovo.
How Kosovo is viewed by Serbia is well known, therefore we did not ask Serbian police to do something against the stance of institutions of Serbia.
The elimination and neutralization of illegal operators in territory of Kosovo is done by Kosovo special police force.

(Jim, 28 September 2010 06:14)

Jim,

About ICJ and our independence, i understand that it's not worth it trying to convince you anything, cause we all know that Serbia itself don't want to accept something they asked for. Its you who questioned the issue to ICJ, and now that it's not in your favor, you are trying to say that no it didn't vote in favor of secession. Maybe you should ask ICJ again another question so it can give it's verdict again.For the end i would suggest you come and visit Kosova and you will see itself the real situation.
As fore those who are trying to put the telephony thing in humanitarian grounds i want to point a few things,for your information, we showed a lot of humanity about this issu, i will mention a few for you:
*we let serbs have ilegal operators for more than 10 years ( Kosova's budget lost more than 20 milions of dollars each year because of this)
* The local serbs and serbian operators were warned about this so many times and they didn't do anything to voluntarily remove these towers and equipment so they could use somewere in Serbia,
* Kosova's serbs were offered free SIM cards so they could communicate with 5 Euros on each of this SIM.
If you see this above , you will se how generous we were about this issue.
Last but not leased, do you know that serbian operators uses frequency channels that often interferes and makes a lot of problems for legal operators

This is a necessary step for Albanians to complete the task of ethnic cleansing and to complete the theft of the province from Serbia.

It is quite in keeping with their behaviours from before the time of Milosevic when they drove good (not troublesome) Serbs out of Kosovo.

Congratulations to the international community for condoning this.

Let the whole world see the nature of Kosovo Albanians who only know how to destroy things, only a few days after all the countries at the UN voted for a peaceful solution of the Kosovo issue.
(VB, 26 September 2010 13:02)
================

Sure, but the rest of the world will not know about this. Do you honestly believe that CNN or BBC or any other western media will report this?

Roberto,

Horrible words, at least some Albanians have some merit to say because they were exposed to the joy of the Milosevic-"socialism". Do you actually re-read what you write or just shoot it blind in the public? (Sorry, I am just curious).

And since I have quite a few things to do with Jewry - I have to beg for forgiveness here in lieu of Roberto doing it (I don't think, he will).

Serbia is one of the few countries in the world where antisemitism is of miniscule proportions. Roberto is doing everything he can just to make it much worse. Can you please not to spoil our life?

Thanks, but no thanks for the usual autistic comment.

Jim,
I agree with you that the ICJ did not rule on the legality of secession, but rather just on the legality of Kosovo's declaration of independence (which was precisely the question Serbia put before the court).

However, one fundamental underpinning of all legal systems is that anything that is not explicitly defined by law as being illegal is in fact legal. Therefore, by saying that Kosovo's declaration of independence does not violate international law (or any UN resolutions for that matter, since they considered that as well and stated it as part of their opionion), they are stating that it is legal. There is no gray area on the declaration of independence. By being declared not illegal, the declaration itself is completely and unambiguously legal.

Now, that does not mean that secession is a done deal, which is why everyone is approaching the negotiating table. Kosovo wants a divorce from Serbia, and now the details of how to care for the dependents and who gets what must be worked out.

Sheer nihilism. Says a lot about those running Kosovo today. A rather aggressive but pathetic gesture.

I fully support Mike's points that he outlined so well in the post below.

I'd only add that actually this is probably an attempt to gain an advantage before talks are held. It is a fact that before negotiations are held in a conflict zone that either one or both sides will try to grab or use the situation to their advantage before talks begin.

And I'd like to commend Marie's post too. Again I know that many of our Kosovo Albanian posters feel as if the views of those from Serbia proper are irrelevent to them. On the other hand some Kosovo Albanians say they have respect for Serbs living in Kosovo. How does doing this support Kosovo Serbs, what message does it send them.

And to those such as Rocky cheering this activity. Sorry I know that there is something wrong inside me to cheer something when it is destruction. There is something of a base nature that enjoys smashing things down that we have seen in the Balkans too many times.

Why not use all resources to build something up?

You don't have to explain to me what happened. I know. I can read.
I am merely stating how it all looks to anyone else besides K-Albanians.

Please step into the 21st century.
(Peggy, 27 September 2010 22:54)

That is exactly what I tried to remind you that you must step in 21st century.
Does 21st century mean that I can come to Australia, build a tower with bunch of antennas and provide mobile commnication services by ignoring Australian institutions?

Tadic Lets sort this out peacefully! Can you set up your famous dialogue?? or will you beg the USA and EU as usual??
You are totally powerless.. admit it! Or send for Turkey

# It's a normal action for the Kosova authorities to do so. Kosova is indipendent.
(Berati, 27 September 2010 13:03)
==================

Oh we all know that it's a normal thing for K-Albanians to do. Aren't you ashamed of that?

These albanians are nothing but terrorists and the us can't cover this up anymore.

In regards to the comment about Albanians living in Kosovo for centuries. Just a little over 100 years ago, Kosovo had a Serbian majority, and a few decades before that, Kosovo was 80-90% Serbian.

The Albanian population became the majority in 100 years with decade after decade of intimidation, murder and other criminal activities againsts Serbs and those of other nationalities. Criminal activities and murder performed by Albanians that increased severely during the two World Wars, in both cases riding on the coat tails and with support of the foreign attackers. Between and after those wars, the same criminal activities continued and again increased in the war last decade.

In addition to the murder and intimidation, Albanians increased their population by continuing to illegally enter Kosovo from Albania and also having lots of children.

So I guess the moral of the story is if you want to take land from somebody else, you just need to murder and intimidate them and continue to bring your friends to the land and have lots of kids, and in a 100 years or so, you can take their land with the help of whatever oppressor happens to come around at that time.

I want to write one last comment about this issue, ICJ answered positively on the question made by Serbia itself right, it's not our foult you didn't ask another question of that one, so this makes declaring our independence legal. If we make a small comparison, Montenegro have so many things in common with Serbia, they have the same religion, the same language, almost half the population of Montenegro is serbian and they couldn't live together in one state. How can you expect us (totally different like different religion, language,everything different from serbs and Serbia ) to live together or worse under Serbia ( i didn't mention war crimes and other things).
Finaly, illegal operators interfere in legal one's frequency spectrum making this way problems for legal ones to operate

The elimination and neutralization of illegal operators in territory of Kosovo is done by Kosovo special police force.
(Simpatiku, 27 September 2010 20:16)
====================

You don't have to explain to me what happened. I know. I can read.
I am merely stating how it all looks to anyone else besides K-Albanians.

Please step into the 21st century.

Of course not, but it also means that you cannot come here and destroy what is already here.
Do you get my point?
(Peggy, 28 September 2010 12:42)

Yes I do. Do you imply that majority of population of Kosovo just came from somewhere or fell down from the sky and decided to impose something?
The population of Kosovo has been here much longer than somebody started dreaming on mobile communication. These illegal operators were given enough time to get licensed and start paying the taxes just like other two operators. You ignore the authorities and this is what you get.
Albanians in Preseva and Bujanovac do not have providers from Kosovo. Is this also a violation of fundamental right on free communication?
The licenses are not eternal. Even in Serbia they have to be renewed from time to time.

Xheti - could you perhaps show us all where in the ICJ opinion is said that Kosovo is a legal state or that its secession from Serbia was legal?

The judges were in fact very clear that this is not what they said.

In fact, if we are really technical about this, I think you will also find that they didn't even say explicitly that the declaration of independence was legal. Instead, they simply said that:

The Court considers that general international law contains no applicable prohibition of declarations of independence. Accordingly, it concludes that the declaration of independence of 17 February 2008 did not violate general international law.

There is actually a subtle difference between saying something is legal and saying that something does not appear to be illegal. But, as your comment illustrates, such subtlety eludes you.

Really, if you are going to come here and make big claims, it would be better for your credibility if they were in fact accurate.

Kosovo is not more independent than my back yard. Me and my family claims that my garden is independent....So what. Countries are recognized by United Nations only, have their own telephone code, have borders and not boundaries, are members of the UN, Olympic games, European song contest, have valid passports in the whole world, have own internet code etc etc etc. Let the people in Kosovo believe that they have an own country. It matters not one bit. Another thing. The destruction of tele equipment is very good for the upcoming status negotiations. That is for the Serbs. We will see.
(Staff, 27 September 2010 22:30)

Staff
I understand you. It is not for you but it is for 90% (majority) of population. As for passports what you said is pure lie. Although with visa regime, Kosovo passport is recognized by over 90 countries of the world despite the fact tha all these countries did not recognize the independence of Kosovo. Let me remind you that Kosovo passport is recognized even by the countries that are supporters of Serbia such as: Vietnam, Lybia and Egipt.
As for European Song Contest, having own internet code and participation in Olympic games all of this will become true after Kosovo gets membership in UN. Do not forget that Kosovo has declared its independence less than 3 years ago. It took at least 5 years for Croatia and Slovenian to take part in Eurosong if you remember.
Also do not forget that 11 years ago Kosovo did not have even an s from the status that it has now, but things have progressed.
As for the status talks there will not be any status talks according to the resolution adopted by UN GA. According to the same resolution the talks will only be technical between two independent countries. Remember Russian was surprised.

Quite an assumption and quite a statement.
(JohnnyC, 26 September 2010 17:55)


There are no assumptions in my statement because I know when I see the grubby little fingers of that useless and bankrupt fighter of freedom and democracy at work.

You see the negotiations that took part involving the Resolution did include a concession on the part of the US on status of Kosovo simply because the US was not sure it could “pull off” what it wanted in the UN. It’s now too weak to be able to do exactly that – it could have in the 1990s but not now.

This is only a provocation by the US to halt all discussions – you see it done regularly in the Middle East. The Middle East peace talkfest is now over since the Jews started expanding new settlements – so much for Obama’s peace talks. It’s the same old tactic over and over again.

As far the US deaths in Afghanistan are concerned get ready for many dozens very soon after the recent bombing in Iran and the cyber attack on their computers – CIA buffoons couldn’t tie their shoelaces without an instruction book and a flashlight. Their grubby little fingers are all over this.

Actually ICJ let everyone know that Kosovo is independent even legally now
(xheti, 27 September 2010 10:21)

LOL, no! What they let everyone know is:

"We bow to the pressure from America so we issue a statement which does please them to a JUST sufficient degree, but at the same time we have no balls to admit it. In the fact, we have no balls to admit anything or it's opposite. So there you are: it is not illegal to say 'I am independent' - but we have no balls to judge, are you independent legally or not".

Now everyone can regard the things as they like to.

But the fact is: no one did remove officially the UNMIK as the highest authority. Probably no one will be able to do it because for that you need the UNSC support, with China and Russia. And they will say "no" for the same reason USA will say "yes". Hence, UNMIK is officially there. And since Serbian Telecom got the permission from UNMIK, it's not illegal, at least not from the UNSC point of view. It's - like most of things - is in limbo there. Understand if you want to see things being cleared off. But not by such methods. You expect Kosovo Serbs cooperate with the people hurting them?

Otherwise I am still short of breath reading Roberto's posting... So even if Kosovo Serbs are being hurt and Serbian property - otherwise licensed by UNMIK - destroyed - this in your opinion the best occasion to slam the victims? Amazing...

With that said this "young European" is telling you to stop being bitter until the Serb telecommunications company gets a licence to operate legally in Kosova. As long as they operate illegally under our laws they will be cut for the reasons I explained above. The analogy would be PTK operating in Presheva Valley without a licence. This is exactly how ridiculous your claims are.
(johny, 26 September 2010 18:12)

You actually believe what you write?

There is absolutely no justification for the destruction of any telecommunication property from any country.

Suspension, penalties and seizure is one thing; destruction is a malicious illegal act.

The KPS should never get involved over a business matter. This action is contrary to your own Albanian Kosovo constitution.


The move is purely political and if you really believe its over economics, you need to go back to school.

Don't forgot you "independance" is not supported by 120 countries and UNSC 1244 is still in force. Telecom Srbija is operating under those laws.

As for the business implications, Telecom Serbija is 20% owned by OTE from Greece who is a major telecom player in Europe.

OTE Biography:

Hellenic Telecommunications Organization (OTE S.A.) is Greece's largest telecommunications operator, providing services to consumers, Greek and foreign businesses and public agencies. Apart from serving as a full service telecommunications group in the Greek telecoms market, during the last decade OTE Group has expanded its geographical footprint throughout South East Europe, acquiring stakes in the incumbent telecommunications companies of Romania and the Republic of Serbia and establishing mobile operations in Albania, Bulgaria, the FYROM and Romania. The Group also offers mobile telephony, internet access, broadband, ISDN, satellite, high - speed data communications and leased lines services. OTE is among the five largest listed companies with respect to capitalization in the Athens Stock Exchange and also trades on New York (NYSE) and London (LSE) Stock Exchanges.

for tonito and all other who support Kosovo so called state
How did you become state?With violence nothing more how will your so called state end with violence of course,when US and EU realise what they have done they will leave you

It does seem that in light of recent events this action could have been delayed and the entire issue put on the agenda for the upcoming talks.

Glenn - you are right in terms of legality. But my point was more subtle than this and focused on the use of language. I was referring to the fact that many KAs keep saying that the Court said that Kosovo's independence in 'legal'. My point was that it did not say this at all. Indeed, it did not even use the word 'legal' to describe the declaration of independence. It simply said that it did not violate international law. There is, as you recognise, a subtle, but important, difference between the two statements - even if the legal effects are ultimately the same. The former is more equivocal than the latter.

Put this way, it is not that I think you are right (as I have pointed out, there are differing interpretations of the scope of my comments), I just don't believe that you are wrong (speaking from a legal perspective)! :-)

"Countries are recognized by United Nations only..."

--This is not factually true.

To answer Jugoslavia. You've had 10 years to remove the installation. You've had about 5 months since the last time an action was taken and you were warned. So what we had was to options.

1. Telekom Serbija enters in a contractual agreement with PTK and all this wouldn't happen.

2. Removal of all the installations. Once remove you or anybody else have no say as to what happens with them. They are seized and it is in the hands of the authorities to do what they think is best.

Of course as always Serbia comes up with some ridiculous overreacting scenario. A contractual deal of Telekom Serbija with PTK does not mean recognition of Kosova. We as Albanians keep telling you that. Try telling that to a Serb though. Well if you don't wanna make a contract nobody cant let you behave as if nothing has happened. Thats pretty simple.

(Simpatiku, 27 September 2010 20:16)
Kosovo is not more independent than my back yard. Me and my family claims that my garden is independent....So what. Countries are recognized by United Nations only, have their own telephone code, have borders and not boundaries, are members of the UN, Olympic games, European song contest, have valid passports in the whole world, have own internet code etc etc etc. Let the people in Kosovo believe that they have an own country. It matters not one bit. Another thing. The destruction of tele equipment is very good for the upcoming status negotiations. That is for the Serbs. We will see.

Xheti - you didn't answer my question. We all know what KAs want, and why they believe they should have it, but this is not what I asked you. Can you please show us all the part of the ICJ opinion that says that Kosovo is independent? Not the part that says that the UDI, as a mere statement, was not illegal, but the bit that says that Kosovo is a legal state - as you claim the Court said.

That is exactly what I tried to remind you that you must step in 21st century.
Does 21st century mean that I can come to Australia, build a tower with bunch of antennas and provide mobile commnication services by ignoring Australian institutions?
(Simpatiku, 28 September 2010 08:32)
=====================

Of course not, but it also means that you cannot come here and destroy what is already here.
Do you get my point?

all will be built up better, stronger and more modern than it has been before, when we take over again.

when the Serbs liberated their land from the Ottomans, they brought modern electricity whith them, modern water supply, and built new streets and roads.

it will be the same improvement, when Serbia takes over again from the K-albanian extremists in Pristina.

just a question of time.

"Yes I do. Do you imply that majority of population of Kosovo just came from somewhere or fell down from the sky and decided to impose something?
The population of Kosovo has been here much longer than somebody started dreaming on mobile communication. These illegal operators were given enough time to get licensed and start paying the taxes just like other two operators. You ignore the authorities and this is what you get."
=====================

I see, so with this logic all the churches and monasteries should be demolished as well because they certainly did not get Thaci's permission to be built.
They don't make a profit for K-Albanians so they have to go.
Anything that is not Albanian and has no permission of Albanians to be there must go.
Where do you draw the line?

Besides, Kosovo is still Serbian territory no matter what you and the US say. Who made Thaci ruler of that land? Clinton, Bush and Obama are not rulers of the world and don't decide who has what. This will become evident to you soon enough.

Besides, Kosovo is still Serbian territory no matter what you and the US say. Who made Thaci ruler of that land? Clinton, Bush and Obama are not rulers of the world and don't decide who has what. This will become evident to you soon enough.
(Peggy, 29 September 2010 06:48)

Unfortunately I don't have the same prediction "abilities" like you. The least to say the status of Kosovo became evident to you the moment Serbia decided to withdraw resolution that was contrary to majority of EU and surely to the will of people of Kosovo. This will become formally evident to you sooner than you even expect. As for your question: Who made Thaci the ruler of Kosovo the answer is: The people of Kosovo in very democratic elections held in 2007. The way you said Kosovo is Serbian land that is just your opinion. Like I said for me and majority of people of Kosovo, Kosovo is independent and institutions of Kosovo are expected to exercise this will in all fields of life. Surely they are not expected to excercise your will which is understandable and being that, it is surely not the reason for your frustration.

Xheti,

Why not make your own local mini-EU, by the way? You maybe will join the big bureaucratic one in ten years - but not even in 100 years you (or us in other close-by parts of this continent) will have the same mechanisms and same salaries like Germans do have. For the next 100 years we are set to be the second-class citizens of an organization which is increasingly alienated to own people.

You have the possibility to make an other EU and you can expect countries historically close to you to be there.

I accept if you do not want a big daddy in Belgrade to micro-manage you. But there are certain conditions I would set. And I am strictly agains artificial new borders where there wasn't any. So there should be free movement of the people, goods and services to begin with. In an ideal world you vote for people in Belgrade or Tirana or both, to your liking. No physical borders, you can go and visit anyone in the area without being stopped at some place due "border control". Reasonable, not rip-off taxes. And non-intrusive governments which do not want to do a physical exam on you in search of 10 Euro you hid from Big Brother. There are countries where that is close to the reality. Not necessary big and famous ones. You can achieve that. But the more it's about the "Balkan mentality", the further you are from that. This case is an example of the million times mentioned Balkan mentality. does not help anyone except the few corrupt guys who organized it.

Tonito = Berati.

Hence, UNMIK is officially there. And since Serbian Telecom got the permission from UNMIK, it's not illegal, at least not from the UNSC point of view. It's - like most of things - is in limbo there.
(Ataman, 27 September 2010 17:21)

slow there... where did you find such a thing that UNMIK gave them the permission. UNMIK has not given any permission to Serbia mobile operators to do business in Kosovo.

UNMIK has clearly stated years ago that Telekom of Serbia is an illegal operator in Kosovo (see below, page 2).

http://www.unmikonline.org/DPI/Transcripts.nsf/0/39C95D56D65843E0C12572210045D967/$FILE/tr081106.pdf

Countries are recognized by United Nations only, have their own telephone code, have borders and not boundaries, are members of the UN, Olympic games, European song contest, have valid passports in the whole world, have own internet code etc etc etc. Let the people in Kosovo believe that they have an own country. It matters not one bit.
(Staff, 27 September 2010 22:30)

Recognizing countries is one of the things the UN can’t do. Only countries can recognize countries. You don’t need to have a PhD in International Law to understand that. It’s useless to continue with the rest of the statement since its wrong at the start… None of the factors you write above are part of the 4 criteria required by international law (as codified in the Montevideo Convention) for something to be considered a country.

Just a simple example to show that you are wrong: You say "Countries...are members of the UN". Switzerland was not a UN member until 2002. Are you saying Switzerland became a country in 2002 ?!!!

You don't have to explain to me what happened. I know. I can read.
I am merely stating how it all looks to anyone else besides K-Albanians.

Please step into the 21st century.
(Peggy, 27 September 2010 22:54)
You are just saying what it looks like to Serbians not what it looks like to anyone but K-Albanians, if you remember last time when Serbia tried to play it up as a humanitarian crisis (hospital without phone lines etc) what was the reaction from the international community? That the Kosovo authorities should have given more notice not that they should not have done it.
Your thought process is not shared by the rest of the world.