Tadić: Belgrade-Priština talks to start soon

There is no single word about status.

A year ago (or two) no Serb would believe that Serbian top officials would sit down with Kosovo top officials to discuss technical issues as status is not even in the agenda.

This I call it a progress and an small act towards reconciliation.

Kate,

You speak of high standards and at same time you want to decide who Represents Albanians in Negotiations. Sorry that is for Albanians to decide not me or you.

PRN - It would also have been unbelievable that the Pristina govt. would have sat down with the Serbian leaders when they had clearly stated that they do not intend to recognise independence. Don't forget that Ban Ki Moon said just a few days ago that Kosovo is still being run under Resolution 1244, ie. as the province of a sovereign state.

The activity and meetings between the UN, EU, Russia, China and other non recognising countries, plus Serbia, has pointed very clearly to a deal having been made behind the scenes. I am sure that this will come out during 'discussions'.

If Kosovo is represented by Thaci et al, the international community will no doubt have to step in early on and deal on their behalf.

Kate,

You said "I am sure that this will come out during 'discussions'."

Do you know that ONLY serbs seem to be sure of unsure things. This is not a good attitude. The R 1244 is automatically replaced with the UN Resolution that was unanimously approved this month which states that ONLY technical discussion are to on the agenda, respects ICJ decision on Kosovo Independence and more over it states NOWHERE that Kosovo is province,,...let alone (province part of Serbia)

Please enlighten yourself with facts and avoid continues embarrassments.

Things are moving forwards some people interpreting their own ways....there is a saying "caravan moves while and dogs bark

@ PRN - You say that Resolution 1244 is no longer in effect?

You have to tell that to the UN and all the newswires.

Bilbao: "You speak of high standards and at same time you want to decide who Represents Albanians in Negotiations. Sorry that is for Albanians to decide not me or you."

You misread me. I didn't say that was my opinion; I said that this would inevitably happen. Serbia has given a lot of leeway to save the faces of the EU and the architects and supporters of the original Kosovo project.

It has already been established that something will need to be given back. The current Pristina govt. will never do this (or be able to), but the UN and EU will step in and make concessions for them.

Kosovo is still a protectorate supported from the outside. It is not yet a legally sovereign state.

I have been looking at the comments here for a while, and I can see delusions on both the Albanian and Serbian comments. One delusion I see from the Albanian side is that the ICJ judged that Kosovo's secession was legal and another that resolution 1244 is replaced by the resolution placed more recently. One of the delusions on the Serbian side is that resolution 1244 was ever truly in effect, it is only technically in effect, but not in effect in reality. What has happened in the last 10 years should make that obvious, especially the strong support western governments have been giving the Albanians in regard to their attempt of independence. Just read the words of resolution 1244 and see for yourself if it is truly being respected.

While there are additional delusions I have seen on the Albanian side, I will use the rest of my comment to address the delusions on just the Serbian side, because I am more worried about that. The fact that so many Serbs actually believe that Tadic is fighting to keep Kosovo is worrying, and this delusion has gotten even worse after this recent resolution and how the EU are creating the illusion that the Serbs will actually get anything good from the EU. The only thing they might get is EU membership, which I can gaurantee that the EU will make sure that they are the winners in that deal, and that Serbian membership will do them much more good then it will for Serbians. The EU will use Serbia so that they can reap where they don't sow and also take more and give less.

The ICJ question given by the Tadic was intentionally worded the way it was so that the judges had a way to avoid the real question. Think about it, I am sure there were several experts used to help formulate that question, and these experts are smart enough to know that if they wanted the ICJ to answer the question "Is Kosovo's unilateral secession legal?", they wouldn't have asked "Is Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence legal?". Now the Serbs can say, "but they didn't say Kosovo's secession was legal, they only addressed the declaration", while this statement is true (as it is specifically mentioned in the ICJ decision that they didn't discuss the right to secession or self-determination, only the right to declare), almost all the western news station (including the biggest news stations) are saying, and I quote exactly from one of their news titles, "Hague Ruling Says Kosovo Secession Was Legal" and other variations of that quote. This ICJ charade allowed western governments to easily convince there public that "Kosovo's secession was judged legal", while Tadic can convince his public that the ICJ didn't answer the real question (which is not the real question, but is the question that SHOULD have been asked), and also convince them that Tadic is still fighting for Serbia.

All the things the Tadic government are doing is preparing the Serbs to eventually accept the independence of Kosovo. They are pretending to fight for the Serbs so that they can continue to be in power until Kosovo's independence is finalized, because once that happens, it will be hard or almost impossible for future Serbian governments to reverse. Many of the criticisms of the western governments are part of the charade, so that the Serbs don't realize that Tadic is doing what the west tells him to do. Tadic and his western friends are just watching the reaction of the Serbs and waiting until their reactions appear like they are finally ready to accept independence.

Wake up Serbs, your naivety is an insult to your ancestors, who continually fought against oppressors for centuries upon centuries.

Pretty sweet stuff...somebody has softened their words...Now acceptable to talk only on technical issues. Why not, what else would two independent countries have to talk about, their status'? Not after the resolution submitted to the UN by Serbs themselves, where no status is to be mentioned. Well, some say that it costed Serbia a lot, I say it only costed him (Jeremic)his job. It's all good though.

It's laughable but often brought up that Serbia's constitution makes Kosovo part of Serbia. I guess we should be happy here in California that Serbia's constitution doesn't say we are part of Serbia. Otherwise we would be in the same boat as Kosovo and have to secede.

Kosovo is still a protectorate supported from the outside. It is not yet a legally sovereign state.
(kate, 24 September 2010 14:15)

You can keep imagining as long as you want. The truth that will be conveyed to you by your president Tadic is still forthcoming. The signs of that truth are in the UN GA resolution

"It's laughable but often brought up that Serbia's constitution makes Kosovo part of Serbia. I guess we should be happy here in California that Serbia's constitution doesn't say we are part of Serbia."

-> California has not declared its independence from Serbia, but "Kosova" has
done so.

Thus, it is obvious that there is difference between the relation Serbia-Kosovo and
the relation Serbia-California.

Hence, any reference to the Serbian Constitution is NOT
"laughable"!

...and all the newswires.
(kate, 24 September 2010 14:07)

Don't you get tired telling us how biased the (Western) press is? Oh wait, I forgot. That only kicks in when it comes to not so favorable news coverage for the Serbian side. My bad..

Look who's calling the shots! Why else is Kurti #1 most popular narco-politician in KiM while the others beg to attend our holy father Patriarch's enthronement. Dont be surprised if they try to break a deal to stay in power after re-integration. They are Albanian Arkans: criminals 1st & nationalists 2nd. Arkan cleared Serbs from RSK with the CRO army. The guys in Pristina are the same type, just look at the UCK's history.

Serbia's constitution making Kosovo a part of Serbia is especially laughable since Serbia is supposedly a democracy, and when this new constitution was voted on in 2006, the Albanians in Kosovo were not even given a chance to vote on it. Oh the irony...

(kate, 24 September 2010 10:38)
kate do not put words in Ban's mouth. You will notice that Ban has not referred directly or indirectly to Kosovo as a province since the DOI. He has been very careful in that respect. You will notice he adheres to the status neutral stance (probabaly the only person) he does not address Kosovo as independent nor as a province. Now your own interpretation however misgudied may be is that 1244 makes Kosovo a province of Serbia.
But I did notice in one of your posts you did say Kosovo is not an independent state "yet". Shows progress on your part.

It seems there are huge dreamers in this thread. The general assembly acceptance of Serbia's resolution does not replace the security council's resolution. That distinction is really important.

Another distinction is that these technical talks is not on status since Serbia's constitution is not going to change regarding Kosovo.

The great thing about all this unanimity is that it brings a better environment for foreign investments. Unilateralism has lost out it seems.

J.C. "Don't you get tired telling us how biased the (Western) press is?"

I was talking about the UN statements put out on the newswires.

Its a sad day when Serbia is negotiating with terrorists and landgrabers.

Mr. Tadic! The Serbian people are watching you. No screw up please. It is most important that the status of Kosovo should be discuss and produce an agreement.

There will not talk about the status in the upcoming negotiations. Serbia will never give up it's ownership of Kosovo. Period. The Albanians can govern themselves, and good riddance. Let's get this Kosovo dispute over with. It's not that big of a place, or important to the world, for so much fuss.

There will be no talking about the status!

The things they will be talking about will be like: missing bodies of Albanians, pensions of Albanians that only God knows what they have done with them and so on...

I recommend the North Korean approach to these talks - spend 6 months arguing over the size and shape of the negotiating table. It appears clooney is leveraging Serbia's progress toward eu candidacy with progress in these talks. That is the reason for my recommendation; it's no secret that the eu has been deliberately dragging its behind on that issue. Looks like they made a secret deal to partition kosovo in exchange for altering the UN resolution. Apparently, the west has finally come to its senses that no way could kosovo ever get into the UN or albania ever get into the eu without a deal with Serbia. The mild sprinkle instead of flood of recognitions after the ICJ ducking of the issue finally convinced them; summer vacations ended. Typical of the west to refuse admitting their mistakes publicly.

"and when this new constitution was voted on in 2006, the Albanians in Kosovo were not even given a chance to vote on it. Oh the irony..." (Glenn)

-- Yeah, and when Albanians unilaterally seceded from the rest of Serbia, Serbs never got a chance to vote on that.

Life sucks, doesn't it?

-- Yeah, and when Albanians unilaterally seceded from the rest of Serbia, Serbs never got a chance to vote on that.

Life sucks, doesn't it?
(Mike, 26 September 2010 18:44)

Here, we made this constitution for you without you being able to vote for it and you can't do anything about it. By the way this also prevents you from seceding so don't even thing about seceding after this comes into effect. If you want to secede you need to have our permission and be allowed by the constitution which you can;t vote for.

I guess it doesn't when you have a choice like that in front of you, Mike. It simplifies your decisions by many magnitude levels.

PRN - It would also have been unbelievable that the Pristina govt. would have sat down with the Serbian leaders when they had clearly stated that they do not intend to recognise independence. Don't forget that Ban Ki Moon said just a few days ago that Kosovo is still being run under Resolution 1244, ie. as the province of a sovereign state.

The activity and meetings between the UN, EU, Russia, China and other non recognising countries, plus Serbia, has pointed very clearly to a deal having been made behind the scenes. I am sure that this will come out during 'discussions'.

If Kosovo is represented by Thaci et al, the international community will no doubt have to step in early on and deal on their behalf.

There is no single word about status.

A year ago (or two) no Serb would believe that Serbian top officials would sit down with Kosovo top officials to discuss technical issues as status is not even in the agenda.

This I call it a progress and an small act towards reconciliation.

Kate,

You said "I am sure that this will come out during 'discussions'."

Do you know that ONLY serbs seem to be sure of unsure things. This is not a good attitude. The R 1244 is automatically replaced with the UN Resolution that was unanimously approved this month which states that ONLY technical discussion are to on the agenda, respects ICJ decision on Kosovo Independence and more over it states NOWHERE that Kosovo is province,,...let alone (province part of Serbia)

Please enlighten yourself with facts and avoid continues embarrassments.

Things are moving forwards some people interpreting their own ways....there is a saying "caravan moves while and dogs bark

Kate,

You speak of high standards and at same time you want to decide who Represents Albanians in Negotiations. Sorry that is for Albanians to decide not me or you.

Pretty sweet stuff...somebody has softened their words...Now acceptable to talk only on technical issues. Why not, what else would two independent countries have to talk about, their status'? Not after the resolution submitted to the UN by Serbs themselves, where no status is to be mentioned. Well, some say that it costed Serbia a lot, I say it only costed him (Jeremic)his job. It's all good though.

@ PRN - You say that Resolution 1244 is no longer in effect?

You have to tell that to the UN and all the newswires.

Bilbao: "You speak of high standards and at same time you want to decide who Represents Albanians in Negotiations. Sorry that is for Albanians to decide not me or you."

You misread me. I didn't say that was my opinion; I said that this would inevitably happen. Serbia has given a lot of leeway to save the faces of the EU and the architects and supporters of the original Kosovo project.

It has already been established that something will need to be given back. The current Pristina govt. will never do this (or be able to), but the UN and EU will step in and make concessions for them.

Kosovo is still a protectorate supported from the outside. It is not yet a legally sovereign state.

...and all the newswires.
(kate, 24 September 2010 14:07)

Don't you get tired telling us how biased the (Western) press is? Oh wait, I forgot. That only kicks in when it comes to not so favorable news coverage for the Serbian side. My bad..

It's laughable but often brought up that Serbia's constitution makes Kosovo part of Serbia. I guess we should be happy here in California that Serbia's constitution doesn't say we are part of Serbia. Otherwise we would be in the same boat as Kosovo and have to secede.

Its a sad day when Serbia is negotiating with terrorists and landgrabers.

Kosovo is still a protectorate supported from the outside. It is not yet a legally sovereign state.
(kate, 24 September 2010 14:15)

You can keep imagining as long as you want. The truth that will be conveyed to you by your president Tadic is still forthcoming. The signs of that truth are in the UN GA resolution

Look who's calling the shots! Why else is Kurti #1 most popular narco-politician in KiM while the others beg to attend our holy father Patriarch's enthronement. Dont be surprised if they try to break a deal to stay in power after re-integration. They are Albanian Arkans: criminals 1st & nationalists 2nd. Arkan cleared Serbs from RSK with the CRO army. The guys in Pristina are the same type, just look at the UCK's history.

"It's laughable but often brought up that Serbia's constitution makes Kosovo part of Serbia. I guess we should be happy here in California that Serbia's constitution doesn't say we are part of Serbia."

-> California has not declared its independence from Serbia, but "Kosova" has
done so.

Thus, it is obvious that there is difference between the relation Serbia-Kosovo and
the relation Serbia-California.

Hence, any reference to the Serbian Constitution is NOT
"laughable"!

It seems there are huge dreamers in this thread. The general assembly acceptance of Serbia's resolution does not replace the security council's resolution. That distinction is really important.

Another distinction is that these technical talks is not on status since Serbia's constitution is not going to change regarding Kosovo.

The great thing about all this unanimity is that it brings a better environment for foreign investments. Unilateralism has lost out it seems.

There will not talk about the status in the upcoming negotiations. Serbia will never give up it's ownership of Kosovo. Period. The Albanians can govern themselves, and good riddance. Let's get this Kosovo dispute over with. It's not that big of a place, or important to the world, for so much fuss.

Serbia's constitution making Kosovo a part of Serbia is especially laughable since Serbia is supposedly a democracy, and when this new constitution was voted on in 2006, the Albanians in Kosovo were not even given a chance to vote on it. Oh the irony...

(kate, 24 September 2010 10:38)
kate do not put words in Ban's mouth. You will notice that Ban has not referred directly or indirectly to Kosovo as a province since the DOI. He has been very careful in that respect. You will notice he adheres to the status neutral stance (probabaly the only person) he does not address Kosovo as independent nor as a province. Now your own interpretation however misgudied may be is that 1244 makes Kosovo a province of Serbia.
But I did notice in one of your posts you did say Kosovo is not an independent state "yet". Shows progress on your part.

Mr. Tadic! The Serbian people are watching you. No screw up please. It is most important that the status of Kosovo should be discuss and produce an agreement.

I have been looking at the comments here for a while, and I can see delusions on both the Albanian and Serbian comments. One delusion I see from the Albanian side is that the ICJ judged that Kosovo's secession was legal and another that resolution 1244 is replaced by the resolution placed more recently. One of the delusions on the Serbian side is that resolution 1244 was ever truly in effect, it is only technically in effect, but not in effect in reality. What has happened in the last 10 years should make that obvious, especially the strong support western governments have been giving the Albanians in regard to their attempt of independence. Just read the words of resolution 1244 and see for yourself if it is truly being respected.

While there are additional delusions I have seen on the Albanian side, I will use the rest of my comment to address the delusions on just the Serbian side, because I am more worried about that. The fact that so many Serbs actually believe that Tadic is fighting to keep Kosovo is worrying, and this delusion has gotten even worse after this recent resolution and how the EU are creating the illusion that the Serbs will actually get anything good from the EU. The only thing they might get is EU membership, which I can gaurantee that the EU will make sure that they are the winners in that deal, and that Serbian membership will do them much more good then it will for Serbians. The EU will use Serbia so that they can reap where they don't sow and also take more and give less.

The ICJ question given by the Tadic was intentionally worded the way it was so that the judges had a way to avoid the real question. Think about it, I am sure there were several experts used to help formulate that question, and these experts are smart enough to know that if they wanted the ICJ to answer the question "Is Kosovo's unilateral secession legal?", they wouldn't have asked "Is Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence legal?". Now the Serbs can say, "but they didn't say Kosovo's secession was legal, they only addressed the declaration", while this statement is true (as it is specifically mentioned in the ICJ decision that they didn't discuss the right to secession or self-determination, only the right to declare), almost all the western news station (including the biggest news stations) are saying, and I quote exactly from one of their news titles, "Hague Ruling Says Kosovo Secession Was Legal" and other variations of that quote. This ICJ charade allowed western governments to easily convince there public that "Kosovo's secession was judged legal", while Tadic can convince his public that the ICJ didn't answer the real question (which is not the real question, but is the question that SHOULD have been asked), and also convince them that Tadic is still fighting for Serbia.

All the things the Tadic government are doing is preparing the Serbs to eventually accept the independence of Kosovo. They are pretending to fight for the Serbs so that they can continue to be in power until Kosovo's independence is finalized, because once that happens, it will be hard or almost impossible for future Serbian governments to reverse. Many of the criticisms of the western governments are part of the charade, so that the Serbs don't realize that Tadic is doing what the west tells him to do. Tadic and his western friends are just watching the reaction of the Serbs and waiting until their reactions appear like they are finally ready to accept independence.

Wake up Serbs, your naivety is an insult to your ancestors, who continually fought against oppressors for centuries upon centuries.

J.C. "Don't you get tired telling us how biased the (Western) press is?"

I was talking about the UN statements put out on the newswires.

I recommend the North Korean approach to these talks - spend 6 months arguing over the size and shape of the negotiating table. It appears clooney is leveraging Serbia's progress toward eu candidacy with progress in these talks. That is the reason for my recommendation; it's no secret that the eu has been deliberately dragging its behind on that issue. Looks like they made a secret deal to partition kosovo in exchange for altering the UN resolution. Apparently, the west has finally come to its senses that no way could kosovo ever get into the UN or albania ever get into the eu without a deal with Serbia. The mild sprinkle instead of flood of recognitions after the ICJ ducking of the issue finally convinced them; summer vacations ended. Typical of the west to refuse admitting their mistakes publicly.

There will be no talking about the status!

The things they will be talking about will be like: missing bodies of Albanians, pensions of Albanians that only God knows what they have done with them and so on...

"and when this new constitution was voted on in 2006, the Albanians in Kosovo were not even given a chance to vote on it. Oh the irony..." (Glenn)

-- Yeah, and when Albanians unilaterally seceded from the rest of Serbia, Serbs never got a chance to vote on that.

Life sucks, doesn't it?

-- Yeah, and when Albanians unilaterally seceded from the rest of Serbia, Serbs never got a chance to vote on that.

Life sucks, doesn't it?
(Mike, 26 September 2010 18:44)

Here, we made this constitution for you without you being able to vote for it and you can't do anything about it. By the way this also prevents you from seceding so don't even thing about seceding after this comes into effect. If you want to secede you need to have our permission and be allowed by the constitution which you can;t vote for.

I guess it doesn't when you have a choice like that in front of you, Mike. It simplifies your decisions by many magnitude levels.