Croat leader strips 5 of military rank

They should all be in prison.

HB,

Croatia has many embarassing moments. Starting with it's Nazi past. This is the one thing that isn't shameful!

"Josipovic what you have just signed off on will remembered by all as the single most embarassing moment Croatia has ever seen." (HB)

-- It's just my opinion, but I think the whole NDH thing was a little more embarrasing for Croatia than this.

HB,

Your current president was put into place by Croatia's western masters for they knew that Croatia was becoming a huge liability and embarrassment. If you feel bad just get used to it. This is only just the beginning. Croatia has to finally face itself in a big mirror and come into terms with its demons of the past. It will be an interesting soul-searching experience and Croats should not be afraid of this. This time it will not be about a lack of shame, but we will see if you truly have a lack of fear. personally I doubt that.

Bravo Josipovic, it's about time Croatia had an honest and objective leader. So many crime were committed during the Balkan wars, and the military that went beyond protecting their territories, should be punished - and severely. Holding a high military rank does not give anyone a right to torture and murder. Those are the crimes of a psychopath, and destroys the image of the country he serves. The horrible days of the Tudjman's and Mesic's are over. Josipovic is a blessing for Croatia, and the Balkans.

Thomas, these Croatian military scum committed crimes against humanity. They were awarded medals by the likes of political murderers like they are, i.e., Tudjman and Mesic and company. Would you want to decorate a murderer? Would you be proud of him as a military leader of your country? Think before you speak, please. These guys committed war crimes, they tortured and murdered civilians, for God's sake. And you think they should get medals for that?

Full marks to Josipović for having the guts to get Croatia to face it's past to really take it forward and break free of the flag waving nationalist madness of the 1990's.

Serbia has already made strides to do this and finally Croatia is also being honest about historical events.

It would be great to see Bosnia do the same (both the Federations and RS).

Josipovic continues to surprise in amazing ways.

I am far less concerned for the safety of my family in Croatia now.

Josipovic what you have just signed off on will remembered by all as the single most embarassing moment Croatia has ever seen. Not even Serbia with its massive list of war criminals would contemplate such a thing. To state that your generals are war criminals and state that they have been stripped of their war medals, could only come from someone who still lives by that sick balkan mentality. I ask you Josipovic where was your family in 1991, were they risking their lives on the front -I don't think so. What Croatia has become is an absolute farce. Josipovic is the only Croatian president that will never be welcome by the diaspora. I never thought I would see the day when Croatia would stoop so low. Disgraceful !

This is actually refreshing to hear Croatia making first baby steps to join the rest of the world. Next on the list is to abolish the embarassing public holiday named "Victory and Homeland Thanksgiving Day and the Day of Croatian defenders" a.k.a. "Mass exodus, ethnic cleansing and slaughter of Serbs Day"

By striping them of their medals and rank, isn't Josipovic punishing them twice for the same crime for which they are already serving incarceration for?

Do the crimes that these military offices have been convicted of negate the acts that saw them awarded the ranks and medals in the first place?

Is there a threshold (i.e. what sort of crimes) that triggers such removal of rank and medals?

In the above example, abuse of office equates to war crimes. WHat exactly is the framework - is there one beyond presidential discretion?

There are some troubling aspects with this decision by president Josipovic - they create or involve legal anomalies and suggest that the presidents exercise of discretion is on a political rather than constitutional or legal basis.

Who cares what the croatian diaspora thinks, and the same goes for the serbian diaspora. You don't live there anymore!

@(Hrvat, 22 September 2010 18:36)

But that is the point - a couple of the people that had their rank removed committed no war crime - one was convicted of embezzling funds during, another of a murder unrelated to the war. It really does raise the question of what the threshold is.

It would be a different story if there was a military court marshal as per the militaries of the Anglo world, but even then it rarely results in a complete loss of rank - perhaps a demotion in rank and or an dishonourable discharge.

This point is an issue only because Josipovic is big on the rule of law mantra.

Yet, he denies these (former) military personnel procedural fairness by exercising a presidential discretion - there is no appelate review or independent scrutiny, which is made all the more serious when that presidential discretion is exercised to remove (as opposed to confer) a right or privilege.

These individuals have been convicted of a crime and sentenced to the ascribed penalty in a court of law.

If the sentence is perceived not to be harsh enough, then the law can be changed or the sentence appealed.

But extra-curial actions like that of the president's undermines the rule of law he professes to wish to institutionalise.

Josipovic, vale. Leader of the peoples of the Balkans.

Now for tadic to catch up and do the same, and quick while a relatively decent government lasts in Belgrade.

Josipovic what you have just signed off on will remembered by all as the single most embarassing moment Croatia has ever seen. Not even Serbia with its massive list of war criminals would contemplate such a thing. To state that your generals are war criminals and state that they have been stripped of their war medals, could only come from someone who still lives by that sick balkan mentality. I ask you Josipovic where was your family in 1991, were they risking their lives on the front -I don't think so. What Croatia has become is an absolute farce. Josipovic is the only Croatian president that will never be welcome by the diaspora. I never thought I would see the day when Croatia would stoop so low. Disgraceful !

By striping them of their medals and rank, isn't Josipovic punishing them twice for the same crime for which they are already serving incarceration for?

Do the crimes that these military offices have been convicted of negate the acts that saw them awarded the ranks and medals in the first place?

Is there a threshold (i.e. what sort of crimes) that triggers such removal of rank and medals?

In the above example, abuse of office equates to war crimes. WHat exactly is the framework - is there one beyond presidential discretion?

There are some troubling aspects with this decision by president Josipovic - they create or involve legal anomalies and suggest that the presidents exercise of discretion is on a political rather than constitutional or legal basis.

They should all be in prison.

HB,

Croatia has many embarassing moments. Starting with it's Nazi past. This is the one thing that isn't shameful!

"Josipovic what you have just signed off on will remembered by all as the single most embarassing moment Croatia has ever seen." (HB)

-- It's just my opinion, but I think the whole NDH thing was a little more embarrasing for Croatia than this.

HB,

Your current president was put into place by Croatia's western masters for they knew that Croatia was becoming a huge liability and embarrassment. If you feel bad just get used to it. This is only just the beginning. Croatia has to finally face itself in a big mirror and come into terms with its demons of the past. It will be an interesting soul-searching experience and Croats should not be afraid of this. This time it will not be about a lack of shame, but we will see if you truly have a lack of fear. personally I doubt that.

Thomas, these Croatian military scum committed crimes against humanity. They were awarded medals by the likes of political murderers like they are, i.e., Tudjman and Mesic and company. Would you want to decorate a murderer? Would you be proud of him as a military leader of your country? Think before you speak, please. These guys committed war crimes, they tortured and murdered civilians, for God's sake. And you think they should get medals for that?

Full marks to Josipović for having the guts to get Croatia to face it's past to really take it forward and break free of the flag waving nationalist madness of the 1990's.

Serbia has already made strides to do this and finally Croatia is also being honest about historical events.

It would be great to see Bosnia do the same (both the Federations and RS).

Bravo Josipovic, it's about time Croatia had an honest and objective leader. So many crime were committed during the Balkan wars, and the military that went beyond protecting their territories, should be punished - and severely. Holding a high military rank does not give anyone a right to torture and murder. Those are the crimes of a psychopath, and destroys the image of the country he serves. The horrible days of the Tudjman's and Mesic's are over. Josipovic is a blessing for Croatia, and the Balkans.

Josipovic continues to surprise in amazing ways.

I am far less concerned for the safety of my family in Croatia now.

Who cares what the croatian diaspora thinks, and the same goes for the serbian diaspora. You don't live there anymore!

Josipovic, vale. Leader of the peoples of the Balkans.

Now for tadic to catch up and do the same, and quick while a relatively decent government lasts in Belgrade.

@(Hrvat, 22 September 2010 18:36)

But that is the point - a couple of the people that had their rank removed committed no war crime - one was convicted of embezzling funds during, another of a murder unrelated to the war. It really does raise the question of what the threshold is.

It would be a different story if there was a military court marshal as per the militaries of the Anglo world, but even then it rarely results in a complete loss of rank - perhaps a demotion in rank and or an dishonourable discharge.

This point is an issue only because Josipovic is big on the rule of law mantra.

Yet, he denies these (former) military personnel procedural fairness by exercising a presidential discretion - there is no appelate review or independent scrutiny, which is made all the more serious when that presidential discretion is exercised to remove (as opposed to confer) a right or privilege.

These individuals have been convicted of a crime and sentenced to the ascribed penalty in a court of law.

If the sentence is perceived not to be harsh enough, then the law can be changed or the sentence appealed.

But extra-curial actions like that of the president's undermines the rule of law he professes to wish to institutionalise.

This is actually refreshing to hear Croatia making first baby steps to join the rest of the world. Next on the list is to abolish the embarassing public holiday named "Victory and Homeland Thanksgiving Day and the Day of Croatian defenders" a.k.a. "Mass exodus, ethnic cleansing and slaughter of Serbs Day"