Deputy PM on Kosovo talks

The resolution didn't call for status talks. The EU doesn't want status talks. Kosovo doesn't want status talks. If Serbia dares to bring "status" to the negotiating table, Pristina will ignore whatever is said and refuse to negotiate on "status" as it has already been finalised, no going back. Serbia has not got anything which will make Kosovo give up it's independence.

"In order to have all 27 EU members accept entire Western Balkans, Belgrade and Priština must find a solution acceptable for the 22 EU members that have recognized Kosovo".

Now this would be much closer to reality, wouldn't it? Don't set yourself up for another failure!

Come on you guy's stop misleading your own people like this. You have mislead them for a long time now, let them have peace in their mind by letting them know that Kosovo is lost for Serbia long time ago.

Does anyone with a braincell in his/her brain think that albanians leadership will negotiate about the already settled Kosóvo status? That would mean giving up on independence of Kosovo and I don't think any albanian will do that. If somebody thinks there would be statustalks then that guy is dreaming very bad dreams.

I am starting to feel sorry for Serbian citizens how much their goverment representatives are lying to them. This has gone to far let the Serbian citizens have peace in their mind letting them know that Kosovo is lost forever for Serbs. Kosovo is independent and that's it!!! Only technical talks is going to happend making life easier for Kosovo citizens.

No No No! Might aswell ignore all talks and Kosovo wont join UN and Serbia will never see herself a member of EU.

Does the Serbian government not know why the EU forced them to change the resolution? It was specifically because it called for status talks. See visits of German & British FM a few weeks ago. How do you expect the EU now to say they want to discuss status when a few weeks ago they specifically objected to it? By the way, the 5 countries that have not recognized Kosovo caved in a few weeks ago when they agreed to the resolution formulated by the majority of the EU. Don't kid yourself into thinking Serbia will be saved by Spain, Cyprus, Romania & Greece. Serbian government setting itself up for yet another failure on Kosovo.

In your dreams...

UNGA didn't vote on status talks. Agenda points of those talks will be discussed and defined in advance. So you can be sure that nothing, not even hints to status talks will show up on that list and if you start to brabble about this anyway then you can speak with out palms, or see us leaving the room.

Cheers!

The Kosovo Albanians cannot give up something they don't have, Ian, namely an independent Kosovo ruled by Albanians. Kosovo is Serbian land, it has been for centuries. Why should the Albanians rule it now, just because it was decided by America that it should be that way. I applaud Serbia in its difficult fight. You must admire their effort, Ian. They are truly a David against Goliath. And please, no more about what the clan in Pristina says or demands. Kosovo rule is in the hands of international powers. The ones with the big military and economic guns. Let's be honest.

As uncompromising as ever, Ian. Easy for you to say from the comfort of the UK. Anyway, you don't have a say on this. Whether they like it or not, eventually Pristina will do what it is told. Kosovo's inability to join the UN and other organisations will be a embarassing reminder to the 22 that what they want, is not what the majority of the world will accept without Belgrade's say so. Besides, patience is at long last running out with the KAs as much as with Belgrade. At some point Thaci and co will have to learn to negotiate. Threats of violence will just show how unready Kosovo is for EU membership.

Threats of violence from the Albanians, Jim? What violence, against whom? Are they going to start killing innocent people sitting at cafes again? Are they going to throw grenades, and run away again? I don't think so. KFOR is there not just to protect Serbs and other minorities from the radical Albanians, but to protect the Albanians from themselves. No one was afraid of the KLA the first time, why would anyone be afraid of them now? Besides, they are all old and fat now. Running away from terror scenes will be a lot harder today.

Demi, please spare us the melodrama - you will never feel sorry for Serbian citizens. And please stop thinking that Pristina has so much power as to dictate what will be negotiated during the talks. The EU will decide that. Let's be honest. If the albanians refuse to talk, on ALL topics, where will that leave them? Don't you want out of your black hole?

Ian/UK,

Real issues will be resolved and dreams held by Pristina will be left for another Walt Disney movie in the future.

AdamNYC - As ever, you prove yourself to be the most passionately irrational Serb hater here.

Belgrade's say so is vital not because Serbia is important in the greater scheme of things. It is important because most of the world regards the principle at stake as vital: territories cannot secede without the permission of the 'parent' state. In this case, the parent state is Serbia.

Perhaps if you were prepared to calm down a little and engage in civilised discussion, without jumping to conclusions, you might have learned by now that this is the whole problem and this is why Serbia's position cannot simply be ignored if Kosovo wants to become a truly independent state.

It is increasingly clear that Serbia is on the verge of allowing Kosovo to go it's own way. Pristina has just got to show some willingness to compromise and offer Serbia something serious in return. To anyone in their right mind that is fair enough. That is how things work in the real world. Again, whethet you like it or not, or want to admit it or not, most of the world is of the view that Serbia's permission is ultimately required to give Kosovo the real legitimacy it so wants - UN membership, participation in Sporting events, telephone dialling codes, etc. Kosovo can get that all, but only if it will give up something in return.

But that, of course, is unacceptable to you. Sat in the US you would obviously prefer to make those stuck in Kosovo martyrs to your hatred of Serbs. Depressing!

"Does anyone with a braincell in his/her brain think that albanians leadership will negotiate about the already settled Kosóvo status? " (Demi, 19 September 2010 14:51)

I wonder how anyone with just a single braincell can think that the Kosovo status is 'settled'. I only know about a Kosovo UDI and that only about 1/3 of the official UN-countries recognized an "indipindint Kosova"

Serb apologists are quite amazing. Serbia has already capitulated on the point of status talks... why are you deluding yourselves? Your PM did indeed make a pretty propagandist speech at the UN, but thats all it was, serbia removed mention on status and did NOT challenge the icj's decision. That is what was submitted.

Serb politicians still yammer on about status... but again, the resolution was already submitted without it... who do you think such talk is aimed at? why pretend to be blind?

@quasistate
of course pristina has the power to decide on what will NOT be discussed. The foreign govt. of serbia wants to talk about status...

Pristina simply has to say No.
that is all. The resolution was made with EU and serbia, serbia cannot even cry to the EU about it. Let alone expect pristina to beholden to what serbs 'Imagine' it to be.

all other issues Pristina DOES want to talk about. It really is that simple.

that you are insisting otherwise is really quite sad. pitiable even. There was a time when it would have been INCONCEIVABLE for serbia to talk to pristina at all.

When Albo's insisted that serbs would talk to Pristina, serb apologists said the same kind of "keep dreaming" nonsense that you guys are saying now about no status talks.

you have even evolved to quibbling about WHAT they are going to talk about. what happened to all the bluster of "never"?

Do you not see its done? Its Happening right before your eyes.

@Top
of course its settled.
what do those 1/3 and growing countries have to do with it? What do the 2/3 and decreasing countries that have yet to recognize kosovo have to do with it?

nothing can force kosovo to do anything other than giggle at serbias insistence on status talks. Its done.

@JIM
on belgrades say so? quite interesting that you think the world acts on serbias magical command... yeah, good luck with that. To the rest of us in the real world, it is just a matter of time to assure
those countries on the fence that it will not hurt their own interests. The only "Inablity" is serbias impotence in stopping it. Rage at the reality all you wish, it will NOT be serbia who is the deciding factor.

This is why ALBIN KURTI is most popular KiM politician - most Albanians KNOW they have been strung along and played by Serb & Euro diplomacy (unlike our deluded B92 Albanians living in the West) and that it'll be a repeat 1912 when Europe gave back half the land Albanians stole to Serbia & Greece. I predicted it in 2008. I was right. No recognitions. Just diplomatic drama that didnt fool anyone, even KiM's politicians know.

Demi, please spare us the melodrama - you will never feel sorry for Serbian citizens. And please stop thinking that Pristina has so much power as to dictate what will be negotiated during the talks. The EU will decide that. Let's be honest. If the albanians refuse to talk, on ALL topics, where will that leave them? Don't you want out of your black hole?
(quasistate, 19 September 2010 17:36)
If the EU is to decide as you say, that pretty much means that Serbia must accept that status talks are out. Why would the EuU insist that any mention of status be removed from the resolution only to introduce it in negotiations.

Still no details. "status talks", words that can be interpreted in 100 ways. what does "status talks" mean? "Status talks" in the form of what does Serbia want in exchange for formal recognition of Kosovo are certainly welcome. Say, "north in exchange for formal recognition", or "fast EU entry in exchangesomething along those lines. Details are needed, otherwise it is just noise.

A new day - they left it out so that the talks would have an open agenda; nothing on the table, nothing off it. This is how you get parties in any conflict to the table when they have such vast differences. I have been amazed by the numbers of KAs who insist that the talks can't be about status because it is not mentioned in the resolution. Where do you all get this idea? Following this logic, the talks can't be about anything in particular as the resolution is deliberately vague. Just as Belgrade will need to talk to Pristina's on matters the KAs want solved, Pristina's will have to engage with Belgrade on matters of Serb concern. In other words, status issues - recognition and territory - will have to be on the agenda. Some of you might be surprised to hear that this is how negotiation and dialogue works. Why is this so very difficult for some people to comprehend?

A new day - they left it out so that the talks would have an open agenda; nothing on the table, nothing off it. This is how you get parties in any conflict to the table when they have such vast differences. I have been amazed by the numbers of KAs who insist that the talks can't be about status because it is not mentioned in the resolution. Where do you all get this idea? Following this logic, the talks can't be about anything in particular as the resolution is deliberately vague. Just as Belgrade will need to talk to Pristina's on matters the KAs want solved, Pristina's will have to engage with Belgrade on matters of Serb concern. In other words, status issues - recognition and territory - will have to be on the agenda. Some of you might be surprised to hear that this is how negotiation and dialogue works. Why is this so very difficult for some people to comprehend?
(Jim, 20 September 2010 08:50)
Of course eventually there will be talks on a nature of how to "settle the dispute" of status between the 2 parties, that is not to mean on status itself. The west has stated that Kosovo's independence is irreversable, that is the reason any mention of status was taken out.
The only talks on status will be under what conditions will Serbia either accept or at least to discontinue its fight against Kosovo independence.
In order to proceed with "full status" negotiations Kosovo would first have to repeal their declaration and the west would have to rescind their recognitions and certainly you are not foolish enough to believe that is going to happen.
You have seen a resurgence of the "more than autonomy less than independence" banner among a couple of posters here but you are not even hearing that from your own government.
So yes "status" will most likely be a topic of discussion, but independence will not be negotiated.
What has happened is movement of the issue into the EU where progress can be made instead of the UNSC where it is hopelessly deadlocked. While the UNSC holds the final decision on whether to replace 1244, it is depending on the EU to develop a workable plan.
The 22/5 stance on Kosovo's status does not hold the same weight as the 3/2 ratio among UNSC permanent members.

These talks will do Serbia and Serbs no good. The Serbs are still being pressured in Kosovo and the rebuilt homes of refugees being destroyed again and again.

All these meetings will try to do is help the Kosovo Albanians and get Serbia to cooperate. Serbs will get nothing substantial in return. Best if Serbia avoids these meetings and instead arrests any KLA or Albanian criminal which should ever pass into Serbia.

The resolution didn't call for status talks. The EU doesn't want status talks. Kosovo doesn't want status talks. If Serbia dares to bring "status" to the negotiating table, Pristina will ignore whatever is said and refuse to negotiate on "status" as it has already been finalised, no going back. Serbia has not got anything which will make Kosovo give up it's independence.
(Ian, UK, 19 September 2010 13:08)

The deal was Serbia does not mention status in resolution and negotiations take place. The US/EU never wanted to hear about negotiations up until the deal was struck. Even the UK foreign affairs minister stated that it would be better if Serbia withdrew the resolution. Both sides had to make concessions.

Pristina will turn up and listen and do as they are told. What are the Albanians going to do? Walk out? Let’s see how long their masters support them if that happens. It will be more about breaking up Kosovo than anything else.


No No No! Might aswell ignore all talks and Kosovo wont join UN and Serbia will never see herself a member of EU.
(Pejoni, 19 September 2010 13:51)

The only people in Serbia talking bout the EU are the politicians in government. The general population does not care about joining the EU. Look at all the eastern European countries that are part of the EU; tell me which are singing the praises of being part of that larger body – not the people.

Demi, please spare us the melodrama - you will never feel sorry for Serbian citizens. And please stop thinking that Pristina has so much power as to dictate what will be negotiated during the talks. The EU will decide that. Let's be honest. If the albanians refuse to talk, on ALL topics, where will that leave them? Don't you want out of your black hole?

Ian/UK,

Real issues will be resolved and dreams held by Pristina will be left for another Walt Disney movie in the future.

The resolution didn't call for status talks. The EU doesn't want status talks. Kosovo doesn't want status talks. If Serbia dares to bring "status" to the negotiating table, Pristina will ignore whatever is said and refuse to negotiate on "status" as it has already been finalised, no going back. Serbia has not got anything which will make Kosovo give up it's independence.

This is why ALBIN KURTI is most popular KiM politician - most Albanians KNOW they have been strung along and played by Serb & Euro diplomacy (unlike our deluded B92 Albanians living in the West) and that it'll be a repeat 1912 when Europe gave back half the land Albanians stole to Serbia & Greece. I predicted it in 2008. I was right. No recognitions. Just diplomatic drama that didnt fool anyone, even KiM's politicians know.

The Kosovo Albanians cannot give up something they don't have, Ian, namely an independent Kosovo ruled by Albanians. Kosovo is Serbian land, it has been for centuries. Why should the Albanians rule it now, just because it was decided by America that it should be that way. I applaud Serbia in its difficult fight. You must admire their effort, Ian. They are truly a David against Goliath. And please, no more about what the clan in Pristina says or demands. Kosovo rule is in the hands of international powers. The ones with the big military and economic guns. Let's be honest.

As uncompromising as ever, Ian. Easy for you to say from the comfort of the UK. Anyway, you don't have a say on this. Whether they like it or not, eventually Pristina will do what it is told. Kosovo's inability to join the UN and other organisations will be a embarassing reminder to the 22 that what they want, is not what the majority of the world will accept without Belgrade's say so. Besides, patience is at long last running out with the KAs as much as with Belgrade. At some point Thaci and co will have to learn to negotiate. Threats of violence will just show how unready Kosovo is for EU membership.

Threats of violence from the Albanians, Jim? What violence, against whom? Are they going to start killing innocent people sitting at cafes again? Are they going to throw grenades, and run away again? I don't think so. KFOR is there not just to protect Serbs and other minorities from the radical Albanians, but to protect the Albanians from themselves. No one was afraid of the KLA the first time, why would anyone be afraid of them now? Besides, they are all old and fat now. Running away from terror scenes will be a lot harder today.

Come on you guy's stop misleading your own people like this. You have mislead them for a long time now, let them have peace in their mind by letting them know that Kosovo is lost for Serbia long time ago.

Does anyone with a braincell in his/her brain think that albanians leadership will negotiate about the already settled Kosóvo status? That would mean giving up on independence of Kosovo and I don't think any albanian will do that. If somebody thinks there would be statustalks then that guy is dreaming very bad dreams.

I am starting to feel sorry for Serbian citizens how much their goverment representatives are lying to them. This has gone to far let the Serbian citizens have peace in their mind letting them know that Kosovo is lost forever for Serbs. Kosovo is independent and that's it!!! Only technical talks is going to happend making life easier for Kosovo citizens.

"Does anyone with a braincell in his/her brain think that albanians leadership will negotiate about the already settled Kosóvo status? " (Demi, 19 September 2010 14:51)

I wonder how anyone with just a single braincell can think that the Kosovo status is 'settled'. I only know about a Kosovo UDI and that only about 1/3 of the official UN-countries recognized an "indipindint Kosova"

"In order to have all 27 EU members accept entire Western Balkans, Belgrade and Priština must find a solution acceptable for the 22 EU members that have recognized Kosovo".

Now this would be much closer to reality, wouldn't it? Don't set yourself up for another failure!

The resolution didn't call for status talks. The EU doesn't want status talks. Kosovo doesn't want status talks. If Serbia dares to bring "status" to the negotiating table, Pristina will ignore whatever is said and refuse to negotiate on "status" as it has already been finalised, no going back. Serbia has not got anything which will make Kosovo give up it's independence.
(Ian, UK, 19 September 2010 13:08)

The deal was Serbia does not mention status in resolution and negotiations take place. The US/EU never wanted to hear about negotiations up until the deal was struck. Even the UK foreign affairs minister stated that it would be better if Serbia withdrew the resolution. Both sides had to make concessions.

Pristina will turn up and listen and do as they are told. What are the Albanians going to do? Walk out? Let’s see how long their masters support them if that happens. It will be more about breaking up Kosovo than anything else.


No No No! Might aswell ignore all talks and Kosovo wont join UN and Serbia will never see herself a member of EU.
(Pejoni, 19 September 2010 13:51)

The only people in Serbia talking bout the EU are the politicians in government. The general population does not care about joining the EU. Look at all the eastern European countries that are part of the EU; tell me which are singing the praises of being part of that larger body – not the people.

Does the Serbian government not know why the EU forced them to change the resolution? It was specifically because it called for status talks. See visits of German & British FM a few weeks ago. How do you expect the EU now to say they want to discuss status when a few weeks ago they specifically objected to it? By the way, the 5 countries that have not recognized Kosovo caved in a few weeks ago when they agreed to the resolution formulated by the majority of the EU. Don't kid yourself into thinking Serbia will be saved by Spain, Cyprus, Romania & Greece. Serbian government setting itself up for yet another failure on Kosovo.

In your dreams...

UNGA didn't vote on status talks. Agenda points of those talks will be discussed and defined in advance. So you can be sure that nothing, not even hints to status talks will show up on that list and if you start to brabble about this anyway then you can speak with out palms, or see us leaving the room.

Cheers!

A new day - they left it out so that the talks would have an open agenda; nothing on the table, nothing off it. This is how you get parties in any conflict to the table when they have such vast differences. I have been amazed by the numbers of KAs who insist that the talks can't be about status because it is not mentioned in the resolution. Where do you all get this idea? Following this logic, the talks can't be about anything in particular as the resolution is deliberately vague. Just as Belgrade will need to talk to Pristina's on matters the KAs want solved, Pristina's will have to engage with Belgrade on matters of Serb concern. In other words, status issues - recognition and territory - will have to be on the agenda. Some of you might be surprised to hear that this is how negotiation and dialogue works. Why is this so very difficult for some people to comprehend?

Demi, please spare us the melodrama - you will never feel sorry for Serbian citizens. And please stop thinking that Pristina has so much power as to dictate what will be negotiated during the talks. The EU will decide that. Let's be honest. If the albanians refuse to talk, on ALL topics, where will that leave them? Don't you want out of your black hole?
(quasistate, 19 September 2010 17:36)
If the EU is to decide as you say, that pretty much means that Serbia must accept that status talks are out. Why would the EuU insist that any mention of status be removed from the resolution only to introduce it in negotiations.

These talks will do Serbia and Serbs no good. The Serbs are still being pressured in Kosovo and the rebuilt homes of refugees being destroyed again and again.

All these meetings will try to do is help the Kosovo Albanians and get Serbia to cooperate. Serbs will get nothing substantial in return. Best if Serbia avoids these meetings and instead arrests any KLA or Albanian criminal which should ever pass into Serbia.

No No No! Might aswell ignore all talks and Kosovo wont join UN and Serbia will never see herself a member of EU.

Serb apologists are quite amazing. Serbia has already capitulated on the point of status talks... why are you deluding yourselves? Your PM did indeed make a pretty propagandist speech at the UN, but thats all it was, serbia removed mention on status and did NOT challenge the icj's decision. That is what was submitted.

Serb politicians still yammer on about status... but again, the resolution was already submitted without it... who do you think such talk is aimed at? why pretend to be blind?

@quasistate
of course pristina has the power to decide on what will NOT be discussed. The foreign govt. of serbia wants to talk about status...

Pristina simply has to say No.
that is all. The resolution was made with EU and serbia, serbia cannot even cry to the EU about it. Let alone expect pristina to beholden to what serbs 'Imagine' it to be.

all other issues Pristina DOES want to talk about. It really is that simple.

that you are insisting otherwise is really quite sad. pitiable even. There was a time when it would have been INCONCEIVABLE for serbia to talk to pristina at all.

When Albo's insisted that serbs would talk to Pristina, serb apologists said the same kind of "keep dreaming" nonsense that you guys are saying now about no status talks.

you have even evolved to quibbling about WHAT they are going to talk about. what happened to all the bluster of "never"?

Do you not see its done? Its Happening right before your eyes.

@Top
of course its settled.
what do those 1/3 and growing countries have to do with it? What do the 2/3 and decreasing countries that have yet to recognize kosovo have to do with it?

nothing can force kosovo to do anything other than giggle at serbias insistence on status talks. Its done.

@JIM
on belgrades say so? quite interesting that you think the world acts on serbias magical command... yeah, good luck with that. To the rest of us in the real world, it is just a matter of time to assure
those countries on the fence that it will not hurt their own interests. The only "Inablity" is serbias impotence in stopping it. Rage at the reality all you wish, it will NOT be serbia who is the deciding factor.

AdamNYC - As ever, you prove yourself to be the most passionately irrational Serb hater here.

Belgrade's say so is vital not because Serbia is important in the greater scheme of things. It is important because most of the world regards the principle at stake as vital: territories cannot secede without the permission of the 'parent' state. In this case, the parent state is Serbia.

Perhaps if you were prepared to calm down a little and engage in civilised discussion, without jumping to conclusions, you might have learned by now that this is the whole problem and this is why Serbia's position cannot simply be ignored if Kosovo wants to become a truly independent state.

It is increasingly clear that Serbia is on the verge of allowing Kosovo to go it's own way. Pristina has just got to show some willingness to compromise and offer Serbia something serious in return. To anyone in their right mind that is fair enough. That is how things work in the real world. Again, whethet you like it or not, or want to admit it or not, most of the world is of the view that Serbia's permission is ultimately required to give Kosovo the real legitimacy it so wants - UN membership, participation in Sporting events, telephone dialling codes, etc. Kosovo can get that all, but only if it will give up something in return.

But that, of course, is unacceptable to you. Sat in the US you would obviously prefer to make those stuck in Kosovo martyrs to your hatred of Serbs. Depressing!

A new day - they left it out so that the talks would have an open agenda; nothing on the table, nothing off it. This is how you get parties in any conflict to the table when they have such vast differences. I have been amazed by the numbers of KAs who insist that the talks can't be about status because it is not mentioned in the resolution. Where do you all get this idea? Following this logic, the talks can't be about anything in particular as the resolution is deliberately vague. Just as Belgrade will need to talk to Pristina's on matters the KAs want solved, Pristina's will have to engage with Belgrade on matters of Serb concern. In other words, status issues - recognition and territory - will have to be on the agenda. Some of you might be surprised to hear that this is how negotiation and dialogue works. Why is this so very difficult for some people to comprehend?
(Jim, 20 September 2010 08:50)
Of course eventually there will be talks on a nature of how to "settle the dispute" of status between the 2 parties, that is not to mean on status itself. The west has stated that Kosovo's independence is irreversable, that is the reason any mention of status was taken out.
The only talks on status will be under what conditions will Serbia either accept or at least to discontinue its fight against Kosovo independence.
In order to proceed with "full status" negotiations Kosovo would first have to repeal their declaration and the west would have to rescind their recognitions and certainly you are not foolish enough to believe that is going to happen.
You have seen a resurgence of the "more than autonomy less than independence" banner among a couple of posters here but you are not even hearing that from your own government.
So yes "status" will most likely be a topic of discussion, but independence will not be negotiated.
What has happened is movement of the issue into the EU where progress can be made instead of the UNSC where it is hopelessly deadlocked. While the UNSC holds the final decision on whether to replace 1244, it is depending on the EU to develop a workable plan.
The 22/5 stance on Kosovo's status does not hold the same weight as the 3/2 ratio among UNSC permanent members.

Still no details. "status talks", words that can be interpreted in 100 ways. what does "status talks" mean? "Status talks" in the form of what does Serbia want in exchange for formal recognition of Kosovo are certainly welcome. Say, "north in exchange for formal recognition", or "fast EU entry in exchangesomething along those lines. Details are needed, otherwise it is just noise.