Belgrade "ready for dialogue with Priština"

In recent days serbia got sticks and carrots from the EU, in order for the Resolution to be harmonised with the reality in t he ground. As a carrot Serbia got a PROMISE that it will speed up the EU integration.

As per dialogue, I think it is necessary for the K-Serbs so that they calm down and accept once and for all the reality that their motherland is Kosovo and NOT Serbia. I am glad that Serbian authroties have indirectly recognised Kosovo, whereby instead of UNMIK they have accepted (under pressure) the EULEX and moreover they even agreed that Brusel is NOW a place for the disccusions abot Kosovo rather than instead of UN (NEW YORK)...

I applaud the Serbian government for the courage found to make these painful but necessary concession for t he peace and stability in this region.

PRN - "whereby instead of UNMIK they have accepted (under pressure) the EULEX and moreover they even agreed that Brusel is NOW a place for the disccusions abot Kosovo rather than instead of UN"

That may be the case, but as Ban-ki Moon stated the other day, UNSCR 1244 is still in place, so Kosovo is still a UN protectorate legally owned by Serbia. All you've achieved so far is the right to jump up and down, screaming "we're free, we're free, we're independent" - but the reality is otherwise.

You cannot have negotiations with Terrorists!
Kosovo is currently run by former terrorists and gangsters.
Even the US has a no negotiation with terrorist policy.
What can they possibly negotiate? New and alternate drug routes from Kosovo into western Europe?
There first needs to be a change in the K-albanian government. They need credible leaders who have an education and who dont have blood on their hands

...There first needs to be a change in the K-albanian government. They need credible leaders who have an education and who dont have blood on their hands
(Predrag, 14 September 2010 12:27) ...
Have you sleeping those 11 years my friend?You can not change the albanian gonverment,because they are democratically elected.Personally I don't vote for them if I would have live in Kosova,but I have to accept the will of majority.
As for educated leaders,albanians have Rugova and Agani for 17 years,but Agani was killed in front of his family and forced Rugova to be humiliated in 1999.So we did give you several chanses to negotiate from 1989-99,even propose different formulas from the third republic under YU to Kosovo independent open to Albania and Serbia,but you ignore Rugova and in the end humiliated him.
Serbia doesn't have anything in ground(except the influence in North) in order to have the upper hand in negotiations.
They have NO CHOICE but to sit with K-Alb and talk.Kushtuinica did talk with Ceku a KLA commander.Tadic should do the same with Sejdiu(btw is a LDK member not KLA).

I think everyone wants negotiations, the problem is the pre-conditions both Belgrade and Pristina want.

Zoran: "Well, it looks like even our ethnic Albanian posters are supporting negotiations. I think it wasn't too long ago when they were all against it. Now that's called progress!

Lets see if we are all mature enough to negotiate and accept a fair compromise for all. More than autonomy, less than independence is the reality my friends.
(Zoran, 14 September 2010 12:54)"

I think you're confusing status negotiations with technical negotiations. Also I think you need to ask yourself, what has Serbia got that would make Kosovo give up it's independence? Nothing, that is the real reality. The only thing that has changed is that Serbia is willing to accept technical negotiations.

-----------------------------

Kate: "There are 'pre conditions' and there are legal facts. Do you really think that the US & the pro independence camp wouldn't be forcing through independence after all of this if they could?

They can't do it. Kosovo is not independent and still legally remains a province in Serbia. The ICJ opinion just said that it was legal for them to declare independence; not that independence itself was legal.

The wording they used was critical and skirted around the issue. Nothing has changed: the attempt to annex 15% of Serbia's territory was illegal and Kosovo is still part of Serbia.

Of course there are no illusions that autonomy or partition are the only possible routes forward. And that is what will be spoken about.

Kosovo is certainly not a state, and if you pay attention not so carefully you can see for yourself what sort of government they have.

This will ultimately mean negotiating a solution which both sides (EU/US/Kosovo and Serbia) will be happy with.

BTW, Ian, have you ever asked yourself when championing independence of a province within someone else's country, why there are only Albanian flags being flown? If this was about independence, the new Kosovo flags would be flying.

Albania is another nation, so how can 'independence' link to wanting to annex territory and join with another state?
(kate, 14 September 2010 13:46)"

Kate, I don't care for your personal interpretation of international law. No official international legal body in the world has called Kosovo's independence "illegal".

Also when these negotiations do happen, Kosovo will just refuse to talk about status negotiations if Serbia dares bring them to the table. They will just be ignored, remember the UNGA resolution did not call for status negotiations, just technical negotiations as such.

You say that Albania is a different "nation", which is strictly not true. What you should have said is that Albania is a different Sovereign state/ country. Here is a dictionary definition of the word "nation": "a community of persons not constituting a state but bound by common descent, language, culture, history, etc". A nation is a group of people not a country. A lot of people in Kosovo are part of the Albanian nation, however others aren't. Also I could ask you why are there Irish flags flying in Northern Ireland, Hungarian flags in Slovakia and Romania, or Serbian flags flying in Bosnia and Montenegro etc? Also I think it is a bit of a sweeping statement to imply that there isn't any Kosovar flags in Kosovo and "only" Albanian flags. Some Albanians may want Kosovo to join with Albania, however in reality this will not happen; no-one will let it happen and no-one will support it.

Well, it looks like even our ethnic Albanian posters are supporting negotiations. I think it wasn't too long ago when they were all against it. Now that's called progress!

Lets see if we are all mature enough to negotiate and accept a fair compromise for all. More than autonomy, less than independence is the reality my friends.
(Zoran, 14 September 2010 12:54)
Your problem is misconception, you are not seeing anyone advocating negotiations on independence, it is not even being mentioned on your side. Your "more than autonomy" will not be discussed outside these type forums, and those discussions can happen as much as you want. But the reality is that is a dead issue.

Well, it looks like even our ethnic Albanian posters are supporting negotiations. I think it wasn't too long ago when they were all against it. Now that's called progress!

Lets see if we are all mature enough to negotiate and accept a fair compromise for all. More than autonomy, less than independence is the reality my friends.
(Zoran, 14 September 2010 12:54)

Zoran!
do you really think that the status is in the table? you should read the resolution and you will realise that it mentions only living conditions and serbian monuments. nothing about status is included in there

The independence of Kosovo is a political reality that will not reverse. There are three different things that cannot be afforded. First, Serbia cannot afford to lose its chance to enter EU. This has been shown clearly with current Resolution. Second, Kosovo cannot afford to give up its freedom and independence. Once Serbia has established its EU membership has to obey the European low, which means to respect other nation’s sovereignty. Before that, it has to solve all political issues with any of its neighboring countries. And third, the western democracy cannot afford to give up their project of Kosovo independence as a factor of political stability in the region.
As for the Kosovo Serbs, one should go back and review Ahtisari ‘s plan to see whether there is missing anything that one minority group deserves and Serbian minority has not been provided with in Kosovo. I doubt that any of the countries of the world have solved their minority group issues as well as Kosovo has done by accepting Ahtisari's plan. This plan has to be implemented in place so Serbian minority gets the benefits from it.
Talks will be only for the technical issues. We will have talks together now and in hundred years to come. Neighbors talk. Why not?
Liri, Canada

Well, it looks like even our ethnic Albanian posters are supporting negotiations. I think it wasn't too long ago when they were all against it. Now that's called progress!

Lets see if we are all mature enough to negotiate and accept a fair compromise for all. More than autonomy, less than independence is the reality my friends.

Ian, UK: "I think everyone wants negotiations, the problem is the pre-conditions both Belgrade and Pristina want."

There are 'pre conditions' and there are legal facts. Do you really think that the US & the pro independence camp wouldn't be forcing through independence after all of this if they could?

They can't do it. Kosovo is not independent and still legally remains a province in Serbia. The ICJ opinion just said that it was legal for them to declare independence; not that independence itself was legal.

The wording they used was critical and skirted around the issue. Nothing has changed: the attempt to annex 15% of Serbia's territory was illegal and Kosovo is still part of Serbia.

Of course there are no illusions that autonomy or partition are the only possible routes forward. And that is what will be spoken about.

Kosovo is certainly not a state, and if you pay attention not so carefully you can see for yourself what sort of government they have.

This will ultimately mean negotiating a solution which both sides (EU/US/Kosovo and Serbia) will be happy with.

BTW, Ian, have you ever asked yourself when championing independence of a province within someone else's country, why there are only Albanian flags being flown? If this was about independence, the new Kosovo flags would be flying.

Albania is another nation, so how can 'independence' link to wanting to annex territory and join with another state?

You seem to need a reality check yourself: Kosovo is still not independent legally until Serbia agrees to it; this is international law and reaffirmed under Res. 1244 which is still very much in place.

All Serbia has done is to take a step back for the sake of moving forward. I really hope that it works, and is now down to the EU to support.

Serbia hasn't recognised Kosovo or its independence at all.

The reality is that Kosovo remains as an international protectorate discussing terms of autonomy, and Serbia still legally owns the territory. All the ICJ said is that the declaration itself was not illegal; they copped out on the actual question of independence.

Now it once again enters the political and diplomatic arena.
(kate, 14 September 2010 12:22)
kate, I must admit I admire your dedication to your cause, however, the reality check is in your corner.

@ Zoran

I think you misunderstood us because there is not a single K. Albanian that want to discus the status which is already solved. But we are all for other discussions like improving the lifes of people and so on.

@PRN

While I fully agree with you that the resolution was another nail in the coffin of Serbia's attempts to regain control over Kosovo, I strongly disagree that this implies Serbia's recognition of us as a state.

Yes, the North is an internal issue of Kosovo, but it strongly concerns the authorities in Belgrade and this is why it should be a topic of the negotiations.

Talking about the North is not a status issue.

The North 'an internal affair of Kosovo'.

Well, the whole of Kosovo is an internal affair of Serbia!

Stop the nonsense!

I am very much pro-EU but maybe we should stop letting new states in until they have GROWN UP!!!!

I am so sick of this!

I believe that the one thing Serbia's enemies fear most, is Serbia co-operating. They rely on Serbia being defiant, awkward, proud. Serbia needs to play the game. Inat results in isolation and poverty. Pride doesn't fill empty belly's or provide jobs. You can achieve far more with negotiation and patience. By this means, you put your enemies on the back foot. They don't know how to react. The albanians and others, have played the underdog very successfully. Outside factors can claim to be helping them while using them at the same time. A wise Serbia can climb on the bandwagon, but without being abused. Step forward Pasic. You're needed more than ever.

PRN - Let's see whether you are quite so 'encouraging' about talks when Pristina has to make concessions, which it will very soon.

PRN: "As per dialogue, I think it is necessary for the K-Serbs so that they calm down and accept once and for all the reality that their motherland is Kosovo and NOT Serbia."

You mean like many Kosovo Albanians accepted being Serbian over being Albanian? Even now, it is the Albanian flag being flown and not the new Kosovan flag.

You seem to need a reality check yourself: Kosovo is still not independent legally until Serbia agrees to it; this is international law and reaffirmed under Res. 1244 which is still very much in place.

All Serbia has done is to take a step back for the sake of moving forward. I really hope that it works, and is now down to the EU to support.

Serbia hasn't recognised Kosovo or its independence at all.

The reality is that Kosovo remains as an international protectorate discussing terms of autonomy, and Serbia still legally owns the territory. All the ICJ said is that the declaration itself was not illegal; they copped out on the actual question of independence.

Now it once again enters the political and diplomatic arena.

BELGRADE has been READY for the last year, the West just needed to find a way to get the temp. inst. to the table without losing face and a bunch of diplomatic drama yielding no significant recognitions is enough to string along the Albanians bc the EU is addicted to RUS energy and the US is a socialist wreck bogged down in 2 endless wars, the S.Stream is coming & KFOR is out, so the global balance of power favors us and we must interpret events in that context.

Zoran!
do you really think that the status is in the table?
(UNE, 14 September 2010 14:33)
--
Status is already resolved and the reality is more than autonomy, less than independence. There is no point directly discussing status because it cannot be agreed upon, however, elements of status will be discussed. The question for ethnic Albanians will be how close to "independence" can we get while the question for Serbians is how much control can we achieve? Questions like, how open will the administrative border be? How little control will Pristina have over the north? What type of access to the enclaves will Belgrade have? Will a non-voting UN seat be offered to ethnic Albanians? What type of special status will Kosovo have within the EU? There are many questions I have but the result will be more than autonomy, less than independence. It's just a question of who gets what and how it will be sold to their respective people by Belgrade and Pristina.

Guys, full independence is dead. That's why we are negotiating.

Personally, i am quite glad that "dialogue"will finally begin. it should have been happening for the last decade.

these talks are btwn equals. though if the blgd regime continues its bad and immature attitude, as exemplified by their behavior at the unga (and elsewhere) then the talks will go nowhere fast. time to grow up.

here are some agenda points from my own POV:

--war crimes and criminals__ all war crimes need to be adjudicated, esp 98-99, and "alleged" war criminals arrested and prosecuted. not walking the streets of blgd, mitrovica (and elsewhere)free and easy.

--reparations -- nearly one million kosovars were expelled and run out of their country in spring 99. appr 12,000 were murdered. many of the women systematically raped,houses, villages burned, destroyed. survivors have the right to claim damages/reparations from blgd. this must be addressed,even at this late date.

--n.mitrovica: no functioning govt, no law and order, just mup/inter ethnic mafia control. law and order must be brought back, normal borders secured, normal custom points, etc. this is essntial for the "neighborhood" and in fact all of europe. shame on eulex.

--mass graves -- the balkans are full of them, chock full thanks to guess who? they must be located, or more specifically uncovered, and exhumed. the one at raska is only the most obvious and extreme case. it must be exhumed, now!

right of return -- for all, who choose to -- except war criminals, of course.

protecting rights of all minorites (kosova and serbia,of course)

protection of all holy/ cultural sites -- kosova and serbia. the descecration of holy sites and cemetaries throughout the balkans is disgusting and barbaric.

respect for sexual minorites (lgbt persons) --should go w/out saying, and is prt of euro standandards

well its just a partial list, but not a bad start. so instead of the incessant chitty chat and threats, let's get moving!

thanks.

roberto/ frisco

No more preconditions, no more excuses. The time for jaw jaw is now.

Settle it one way or another once and for all and move on.

Guys, full independence is dead. That's why we are negotiating.
(Zoran, 14 September 2010 16:29)
The only problem is you are sitting in a room and negotiating without anyone else present.
No UN, no EU, no US, no Kosovo and not even Serbia, just Zoran.

Be ready to recognize our export, our licence plats, our passports, CEFTA, commercial flights over Serbian airspace to be allowed, pay some % for the profit by using Serbian phone code as Slovenia and Monaco paid when havent seen a cent coming from Belgrade and everything that is in line with International law or there wont be anything to starta a dialogue with. Northern issue is our own internal problem, what goes for churches and education in Serbian, property we can discuss those part also.

Guys, full independence is dead. That's why we are negotiating.
(Zoran, 14 September 2010 16:29)

Oh man you are way off. Try to put status on the table and you will see what neotiations you will have. With 70 countries that have recognized us as an independent state and counting, full independence has never been closer than this in history...

For 100+ yrs we have endured all the misery and suffering a people can endure and now there is nothing that will make us go back.

It is only logical judging from the past experiences. The only way for us to protect ourselves is full independence. With time we will build an army to protect ourselves and I don't think you will be able to offer that in less than independence more than autonomy deal....

Serbia should have no say, and no influence on K-Alb.

The only way to settle this problem once and for all is to exchange territories. Serbia gets the north for 3 Albanian inhabitted towns in South Serbia. If this doesn´t solve the problem, nothing ever will! And it´s a time to move on, these two nations simply don´t have the nature to live jointly with one another. Their aim from both sides is not to live together but to control one another.

It is in the mater of fact the status issue, technical issue and so on. Dear my neighbors Serbs, more or less I agree with some of you as the status is concerned. But seem that we differ only on expectation or result over the matter. Many times I have posted my opinion, which is not partition of the current geographical state; because, in next 20 years there is more than obvious that Albanians will become the majority in this geographical range, call it however you like. If we add the presence of Muslims in Sandzak, Vlahs who don’t feel that much being Serbs, other minorities spread all over Serbia, we can easily come up with a clear prospect over Serbia’s future. Thus, I would be once more reaffirming my stance that the partition of Kosovo from this precious geographical domain is nothing but nice detailed elaborate long time ago by Serbian Academy.

Talking about the North is not a status issue.
(Chensey, 14 September 2010 12:25)


Talking about the Presheva Valley is not a status issue either!.

Lets, see Serbia drafts a resolution that says that status of Kosovo is unresolved and negotiations should take place, the EU has many, many meetings with Serbia to have any mention of status removed from the resolution or their quest for EU membership is dead.
Now posters here are celebrating because they think that both the EU and Serbia will force Kosovo into status negotiations and that independence is dead.
Does not sound like a logical thought process to me.
If EU were in favor of status negotiaions there would not have been any effort to change the resolution.

As for educated leaders,albanians have Rugova and Agani for 17 years,but Agani was killed in front of his family and forced Rugova to be humiliated in 1999.So we did give you several chanses to negotiate from 1989-99,even propose different formulas from the third republic under YU to Kosovo independent open to Albania and Serbia,but you ignore Rugova and in the end humiliated him.
Serbia doesn't have anything in ground(except the influence in North) in order to have the upper hand in negotiations.
They have NO CHOICE but to sit with K-Alb and talk.Kushtuinica did talk with Ceku a KLA commander.Tadic should do the same with Sejdiu(btw is a LDK member not KLA).
(Mirel from Albania, 14 September 2010 15:26)

You failed to mention that Milosevic at Rugova's request put himself and his family under protective custody from the threat of the same KLA terrorists who run Kosovo today. (Not including Sejdiu)

I think you're confusing status negotiations with technical negotiations.
(Ian, UK, 14 September 2010 15:41)
--
If these are technical negotiations then this will be too easy. It means you won't be asking for a UN seat (even a non-voting one). It means you won't be asking Serbia for some kind of recognition. It means you won't be expecting Spain, Greece, Cyprus, Slovakia and Romania for recognition. Essentially, it means you have accepted the status of "Kosova" as it is - because according to you guys, it is resolved. Excellent, now how are you going to enter the EU without full recognition? How will you negotiate membership with those who don't recognise you? If you think status is off the agenda then think again.

Now as for UN resolutions, I think we all know the worth of them. They seem to be open to interpretation depending on who reads them and who is the dominant power. If the EU/US doesn't get it right this time we will be revisiting in 10 years when China, Russia and India have another look. At that time Serbia will have the upper hand so please try to get it right.

I really am happy that you guys think Kosovo is independent as next time we won't have to wait 2 hours for the "Kosova" delegation to receive their invitation to sit in the visitors gallary.

In my opinion when all the dust is settled and when all the talking is done:

N-Mitrovica will go under Serbia and presevo Vally will be under Kosovo. Or Serbs will be under under special statues in Kosovo which is not ideal for anyone.

K-albanians get something in return and new neighbor i Bulgaria.

And let life go on

The west has sold you on this great win, but they did not win because they had to compromise, but you see there is another player that will scuttle these negotiations if not to its liking and they are called Russians.
(sj, 15 September 2010 00:58)

With what means ??? the firefighters from Nis ??? LOL

"have you ever asked yourself when championing independence of a province within someone else's country, why there are only Albanian flags being flown? If this was about independence, the new Kosovo flags would be flying.

Albania is another nation, so how can 'independence' link to wanting to annex territory and join with another state?"

Kate,
Have you seen the Republika Srpska flag? And what flag do they fly there? It is same to the Serbian National flag? The Albanian flag is the symbol that all Albanians adhere to.

--war crimes and criminals__ all war crimes need to be adjudicated, esp 98-99, and "alleged" war criminals arrested and prosecuted.
roberto/ frisco
(roberto, 14 September 2010 21:42)
--
Great idea, lets see Bill Clinton and Tony Blair first up. We can deal with Thaci a little later on.

RE; Rugova/Milosevic Hague Transcripts

RUGOVA embarassing himself.

Agami was killed by albanian political rivals.

Hague exerpts reprinted below;


Rugova and Milosevic signed an agreement giving Kosovo, “extensive self-
government, along with the full respect for equality of all citizens in national
communities, the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Serbia and Yugoslavia. It was
noted that such an approach constitutes a basis for a lasting and just solution.”

He explained to the court that he expected his meeting with Milosevic “to be
confidential, but the accused insisted that it become public, and then it was
publicised.” He continued, “they thought that they could compromise me politically
and discredit me in the eyes of the Kosovar public, the Albanian public, and they also
wanted to foment conflicts on the Albanian political stage among Albanians.”

The agreement promised everything Rugova had been demanding, but he claims he
had signed it while under house arrest and in fear for his life. Milosevic suggested
another reason for their meeting. He said, “Mr. Rugova, you came to me, asking me
to save you and your family from a possible assassination perpetrated by the KLA.
Look me in the eyes and tell me whether that is true or not.” Rugova laughed at the
suggestion, saying he was not aware of any KLA killings: “No. Not even individual
cases or an organised campaign.”

In any event, Milosevic organised for Rugova to fly to Italy. A few days later, on May
6, 1999, Rugova heard that his close associate Fehmi Agani had been executed.
Rugova alleges that Serbian soldiers or paramilitaries were responsible. He claimed
there was no power struggle among the Albanians, saying, “For the accused, all
these, our structures have always been criminal ones, but I was never scared of
them, of being killed by any Albanians.”

When asked about press reports that KLA leader Hahim Thaci ordered the murder of
political rivals, Rugova said, “I don’t know about these things.” But after further
questioning about the killing of his own party members, including Haki Meri, the
president of the Srbica regional LDK, Rugova admitted, “About murders that took
place after the war, we started investigations.”

Are you related to John Belushi? Because you’re a real comedian. If the negotiations on status are not on the table then what are you guys negotiating? How to find jobs for unemployed Albanians in Serbia proper? Get real!

By the way who is going to build and pay this Kosovo army? Wake up and smell the roses.

(sj, 15 September 2010 00:58)

Ohh man, so you think prishtina & belgrade have nothing to talk about other than status? 2 neigbouring countries don't need to talk about economic issues, minority issues, transportation, law & order agreements, trade etc etc?? wow what a logic?

I said that eventually (in a near future) K-Alb will build an army, and there is nothing you can do about it. Of course K-Alb taxpayers will pay for it, and the diaspora, they did pay for arming the KLA 10 yrs ago didn't they? Maybe small at first but growing with time...

LOL @ "dead"

Kind of reminds me of my crippled, demented grandma who hasn't walked in a decade calling the hospital every day to send a doctor to make her walk.

it's ok. one day reality will sink in. or it won't. doesn't matter really.

Oh man you are way off. Try to put status on the table and you will see what neotiations you will have. With 70 countries that have recognized us as an independent state and counting, full independence has never been closer than this in history...

For 100+ yrs we have endured all the misery and suffering a people can endure and now there is nothing that will make us go back.

It is only logical judging from the past experiences. The only way for us to protect ourselves is full independence. With time we will build an army to protect ourselves and I don't think you will be able to offer that in less than independence more than autonomy deal....

Serbia should have no say, and no influence on K-Alb.
(Denis, 14 September 2010 19:18)

Are you related to John Belushi? Because you’re a real comedian. If the negotiations on status are not on the table then what are you guys negotiating? How to find jobs for unemployed Albanians in Serbia proper? Get real!

By the way who is going to build and pay this Kosovo army? Wake up and smell the roses.



Lets, see Serbia drafts a resolution that says that status of Kosovo is unresolved and negotiations should take place, the EU has many, many meetings with Serbia to have any mention of status removed from the resolution or their quest for EU membership is dead.
Now posters here are celebrating because they think that both the EU and Serbia will force Kosovo into status negotiations and that independence is dead.
Does not sound like a logical thought process to me.
If EU were in favor of status negotiaions there would not have been any effort to change the resolution.
(pss, 14 September 2010 19:51)


Then what are the negotiations about then? The weather in Kosovo? The EU wanted the Resolution dropped completely so you will find that there was compromise on all sides but that does not resolve the status of Kosovo once and for all. There is more in these new waters than you Albanians think.

The west has sold you on this great win, but they did not win because they had to compromise, but you see there is another player that will scuttle these negotiations if not to its liking and they are called Russians.

Guys, full independence is dead. That's why we are negotiating.
(Zoran, 14 September 2010 16:29)

Ok the questioin is why is Serbia negotiating then? LOL they are just rtyuing to get north mitrovica nd trepce which they wont

Laugh all you like, but they are there to stamp out any fires in the Balkans that threaten their interests. Let me point you in the right direction – Southstream pipeline.

I don’t know about you but I have never seen Migs used for fighting fires.

Zoran!
do you really think that the status is in the table?
(UNE, 14 September 2010 14:33)
--
Status is already resolved and the reality is more than autonomy, less than independence. There is no point directly discussing status because it cannot be agreed upon, however, elements of status will be discussed. The question for ethnic Albanians will be how close to "independence" can we get while the question for Serbians is how much control can we achieve? Questions like, how open will the administrative border be? How little control will Pristina have over the north? What type of access to the enclaves will Belgrade have? Will a non-voting UN seat be offered to ethnic Albanians? What type of special status will Kosovo have within the EU? There are many questions I have but the result will be more than autonomy, less than independence. It's just a question of who gets what and how it will be sold to their respective people by Belgrade and Pristina.

Guys, full independence is dead. That's why we are negotiating.

You cannot have negotiations with Terrorists!
Kosovo is currently run by former terrorists and gangsters.
Even the US has a no negotiation with terrorist policy.
What can they possibly negotiate? New and alternate drug routes from Kosovo into western Europe?
There first needs to be a change in the K-albanian government. They need credible leaders who have an education and who dont have blood on their hands

BELGRADE has been READY for the last year, the West just needed to find a way to get the temp. inst. to the table without losing face and a bunch of diplomatic drama yielding no significant recognitions is enough to string along the Albanians bc the EU is addicted to RUS energy and the US is a socialist wreck bogged down in 2 endless wars, the S.Stream is coming & KFOR is out, so the global balance of power favors us and we must interpret events in that context.

PRN - Let's see whether you are quite so 'encouraging' about talks when Pristina has to make concessions, which it will very soon.

PRN: "As per dialogue, I think it is necessary for the K-Serbs so that they calm down and accept once and for all the reality that their motherland is Kosovo and NOT Serbia."

You mean like many Kosovo Albanians accepted being Serbian over being Albanian? Even now, it is the Albanian flag being flown and not the new Kosovan flag.

You seem to need a reality check yourself: Kosovo is still not independent legally until Serbia agrees to it; this is international law and reaffirmed under Res. 1244 which is still very much in place.

All Serbia has done is to take a step back for the sake of moving forward. I really hope that it works, and is now down to the EU to support.

Serbia hasn't recognised Kosovo or its independence at all.

The reality is that Kosovo remains as an international protectorate discussing terms of autonomy, and Serbia still legally owns the territory. All the ICJ said is that the declaration itself was not illegal; they copped out on the actual question of independence.

Now it once again enters the political and diplomatic arena.

Well, it looks like even our ethnic Albanian posters are supporting negotiations. I think it wasn't too long ago when they were all against it. Now that's called progress!

Lets see if we are all mature enough to negotiate and accept a fair compromise for all. More than autonomy, less than independence is the reality my friends.

In recent days serbia got sticks and carrots from the EU, in order for the Resolution to be harmonised with the reality in t he ground. As a carrot Serbia got a PROMISE that it will speed up the EU integration.

As per dialogue, I think it is necessary for the K-Serbs so that they calm down and accept once and for all the reality that their motherland is Kosovo and NOT Serbia. I am glad that Serbian authroties have indirectly recognised Kosovo, whereby instead of UNMIK they have accepted (under pressure) the EULEX and moreover they even agreed that Brusel is NOW a place for the disccusions abot Kosovo rather than instead of UN (NEW YORK)...

I applaud the Serbian government for the courage found to make these painful but necessary concession for t he peace and stability in this region.

Zoran: "Well, it looks like even our ethnic Albanian posters are supporting negotiations. I think it wasn't too long ago when they were all against it. Now that's called progress!

Lets see if we are all mature enough to negotiate and accept a fair compromise for all. More than autonomy, less than independence is the reality my friends.
(Zoran, 14 September 2010 12:54)"

I think you're confusing status negotiations with technical negotiations. Also I think you need to ask yourself, what has Serbia got that would make Kosovo give up it's independence? Nothing, that is the real reality. The only thing that has changed is that Serbia is willing to accept technical negotiations.

-----------------------------

Kate: "There are 'pre conditions' and there are legal facts. Do you really think that the US & the pro independence camp wouldn't be forcing through independence after all of this if they could?

They can't do it. Kosovo is not independent and still legally remains a province in Serbia. The ICJ opinion just said that it was legal for them to declare independence; not that independence itself was legal.

The wording they used was critical and skirted around the issue. Nothing has changed: the attempt to annex 15% of Serbia's territory was illegal and Kosovo is still part of Serbia.

Of course there are no illusions that autonomy or partition are the only possible routes forward. And that is what will be spoken about.

Kosovo is certainly not a state, and if you pay attention not so carefully you can see for yourself what sort of government they have.

This will ultimately mean negotiating a solution which both sides (EU/US/Kosovo and Serbia) will be happy with.

BTW, Ian, have you ever asked yourself when championing independence of a province within someone else's country, why there are only Albanian flags being flown? If this was about independence, the new Kosovo flags would be flying.

Albania is another nation, so how can 'independence' link to wanting to annex territory and join with another state?
(kate, 14 September 2010 13:46)"

Kate, I don't care for your personal interpretation of international law. No official international legal body in the world has called Kosovo's independence "illegal".

Also when these negotiations do happen, Kosovo will just refuse to talk about status negotiations if Serbia dares bring them to the table. They will just be ignored, remember the UNGA resolution did not call for status negotiations, just technical negotiations as such.

You say that Albania is a different "nation", which is strictly not true. What you should have said is that Albania is a different Sovereign state/ country. Here is a dictionary definition of the word "nation": "a community of persons not constituting a state but bound by common descent, language, culture, history, etc". A nation is a group of people not a country. A lot of people in Kosovo are part of the Albanian nation, however others aren't. Also I could ask you why are there Irish flags flying in Northern Ireland, Hungarian flags in Slovakia and Romania, or Serbian flags flying in Bosnia and Montenegro etc? Also I think it is a bit of a sweeping statement to imply that there isn't any Kosovar flags in Kosovo and "only" Albanian flags. Some Albanians may want Kosovo to join with Albania, however in reality this will not happen; no-one will let it happen and no-one will support it.

The independence of Kosovo is a political reality that will not reverse. There are three different things that cannot be afforded. First, Serbia cannot afford to lose its chance to enter EU. This has been shown clearly with current Resolution. Second, Kosovo cannot afford to give up its freedom and independence. Once Serbia has established its EU membership has to obey the European low, which means to respect other nation’s sovereignty. Before that, it has to solve all political issues with any of its neighboring countries. And third, the western democracy cannot afford to give up their project of Kosovo independence as a factor of political stability in the region.
As for the Kosovo Serbs, one should go back and review Ahtisari ‘s plan to see whether there is missing anything that one minority group deserves and Serbian minority has not been provided with in Kosovo. I doubt that any of the countries of the world have solved their minority group issues as well as Kosovo has done by accepting Ahtisari's plan. This plan has to be implemented in place so Serbian minority gets the benefits from it.
Talks will be only for the technical issues. We will have talks together now and in hundred years to come. Neighbors talk. Why not?
Liri, Canada

The North 'an internal affair of Kosovo'.

Well, the whole of Kosovo is an internal affair of Serbia!

Stop the nonsense!

I am very much pro-EU but maybe we should stop letting new states in until they have GROWN UP!!!!

I am so sick of this!

PRN - "whereby instead of UNMIK they have accepted (under pressure) the EULEX and moreover they even agreed that Brusel is NOW a place for the disccusions abot Kosovo rather than instead of UN"

That may be the case, but as Ban-ki Moon stated the other day, UNSCR 1244 is still in place, so Kosovo is still a UN protectorate legally owned by Serbia. All you've achieved so far is the right to jump up and down, screaming "we're free, we're free, we're independent" - but the reality is otherwise.

I believe that the one thing Serbia's enemies fear most, is Serbia co-operating. They rely on Serbia being defiant, awkward, proud. Serbia needs to play the game. Inat results in isolation and poverty. Pride doesn't fill empty belly's or provide jobs. You can achieve far more with negotiation and patience. By this means, you put your enemies on the back foot. They don't know how to react. The albanians and others, have played the underdog very successfully. Outside factors can claim to be helping them while using them at the same time. A wise Serbia can climb on the bandwagon, but without being abused. Step forward Pasic. You're needed more than ever.

Ian, UK: "I think everyone wants negotiations, the problem is the pre-conditions both Belgrade and Pristina want."

There are 'pre conditions' and there are legal facts. Do you really think that the US & the pro independence camp wouldn't be forcing through independence after all of this if they could?

They can't do it. Kosovo is not independent and still legally remains a province in Serbia. The ICJ opinion just said that it was legal for them to declare independence; not that independence itself was legal.

The wording they used was critical and skirted around the issue. Nothing has changed: the attempt to annex 15% of Serbia's territory was illegal and Kosovo is still part of Serbia.

Of course there are no illusions that autonomy or partition are the only possible routes forward. And that is what will be spoken about.

Kosovo is certainly not a state, and if you pay attention not so carefully you can see for yourself what sort of government they have.

This will ultimately mean negotiating a solution which both sides (EU/US/Kosovo and Serbia) will be happy with.

BTW, Ian, have you ever asked yourself when championing independence of a province within someone else's country, why there are only Albanian flags being flown? If this was about independence, the new Kosovo flags would be flying.

Albania is another nation, so how can 'independence' link to wanting to annex territory and join with another state?

@PRN

While I fully agree with you that the resolution was another nail in the coffin of Serbia's attempts to regain control over Kosovo, I strongly disagree that this implies Serbia's recognition of us as a state.

Yes, the North is an internal issue of Kosovo, but it strongly concerns the authorities in Belgrade and this is why it should be a topic of the negotiations.

Talking about the North is not a status issue.

Well, it looks like even our ethnic Albanian posters are supporting negotiations. I think it wasn't too long ago when they were all against it. Now that's called progress!

Lets see if we are all mature enough to negotiate and accept a fair compromise for all. More than autonomy, less than independence is the reality my friends.
(Zoran, 14 September 2010 12:54)
Your problem is misconception, you are not seeing anyone advocating negotiations on independence, it is not even being mentioned on your side. Your "more than autonomy" will not be discussed outside these type forums, and those discussions can happen as much as you want. But the reality is that is a dead issue.

You seem to need a reality check yourself: Kosovo is still not independent legally until Serbia agrees to it; this is international law and reaffirmed under Res. 1244 which is still very much in place.

All Serbia has done is to take a step back for the sake of moving forward. I really hope that it works, and is now down to the EU to support.

Serbia hasn't recognised Kosovo or its independence at all.

The reality is that Kosovo remains as an international protectorate discussing terms of autonomy, and Serbia still legally owns the territory. All the ICJ said is that the declaration itself was not illegal; they copped out on the actual question of independence.

Now it once again enters the political and diplomatic arena.
(kate, 14 September 2010 12:22)
kate, I must admit I admire your dedication to your cause, however, the reality check is in your corner.

Well, it looks like even our ethnic Albanian posters are supporting negotiations. I think it wasn't too long ago when they were all against it. Now that's called progress!

Lets see if we are all mature enough to negotiate and accept a fair compromise for all. More than autonomy, less than independence is the reality my friends.
(Zoran, 14 September 2010 12:54)

Zoran!
do you really think that the status is in the table? you should read the resolution and you will realise that it mentions only living conditions and serbian monuments. nothing about status is included in there

@ Zoran

I think you misunderstood us because there is not a single K. Albanian that want to discus the status which is already solved. But we are all for other discussions like improving the lifes of people and so on.

As for educated leaders,albanians have Rugova and Agani for 17 years,but Agani was killed in front of his family and forced Rugova to be humiliated in 1999.So we did give you several chanses to negotiate from 1989-99,even propose different formulas from the third republic under YU to Kosovo independent open to Albania and Serbia,but you ignore Rugova and in the end humiliated him.
Serbia doesn't have anything in ground(except the influence in North) in order to have the upper hand in negotiations.
They have NO CHOICE but to sit with K-Alb and talk.Kushtuinica did talk with Ceku a KLA commander.Tadic should do the same with Sejdiu(btw is a LDK member not KLA).
(Mirel from Albania, 14 September 2010 15:26)

You failed to mention that Milosevic at Rugova's request put himself and his family under protective custody from the threat of the same KLA terrorists who run Kosovo today. (Not including Sejdiu)

I think you're confusing status negotiations with technical negotiations.
(Ian, UK, 14 September 2010 15:41)
--
If these are technical negotiations then this will be too easy. It means you won't be asking for a UN seat (even a non-voting one). It means you won't be asking Serbia for some kind of recognition. It means you won't be expecting Spain, Greece, Cyprus, Slovakia and Romania for recognition. Essentially, it means you have accepted the status of "Kosova" as it is - because according to you guys, it is resolved. Excellent, now how are you going to enter the EU without full recognition? How will you negotiate membership with those who don't recognise you? If you think status is off the agenda then think again.

Now as for UN resolutions, I think we all know the worth of them. They seem to be open to interpretation depending on who reads them and who is the dominant power. If the EU/US doesn't get it right this time we will be revisiting in 10 years when China, Russia and India have another look. At that time Serbia will have the upper hand so please try to get it right.

I really am happy that you guys think Kosovo is independent as next time we won't have to wait 2 hours for the "Kosova" delegation to receive their invitation to sit in the visitors gallary.

I think everyone wants negotiations, the problem is the pre-conditions both Belgrade and Pristina want.

...There first needs to be a change in the K-albanian government. They need credible leaders who have an education and who dont have blood on their hands
(Predrag, 14 September 2010 12:27) ...
Have you sleeping those 11 years my friend?You can not change the albanian gonverment,because they are democratically elected.Personally I don't vote for them if I would have live in Kosova,but I have to accept the will of majority.
As for educated leaders,albanians have Rugova and Agani for 17 years,but Agani was killed in front of his family and forced Rugova to be humiliated in 1999.So we did give you several chanses to negotiate from 1989-99,even propose different formulas from the third republic under YU to Kosovo independent open to Albania and Serbia,but you ignore Rugova and in the end humiliated him.
Serbia doesn't have anything in ground(except the influence in North) in order to have the upper hand in negotiations.
They have NO CHOICE but to sit with K-Alb and talk.Kushtuinica did talk with Ceku a KLA commander.Tadic should do the same with Sejdiu(btw is a LDK member not KLA).

No more preconditions, no more excuses. The time for jaw jaw is now.

Settle it one way or another once and for all and move on.

Personally, i am quite glad that "dialogue"will finally begin. it should have been happening for the last decade.

these talks are btwn equals. though if the blgd regime continues its bad and immature attitude, as exemplified by their behavior at the unga (and elsewhere) then the talks will go nowhere fast. time to grow up.

here are some agenda points from my own POV:

--war crimes and criminals__ all war crimes need to be adjudicated, esp 98-99, and "alleged" war criminals arrested and prosecuted. not walking the streets of blgd, mitrovica (and elsewhere)free and easy.

--reparations -- nearly one million kosovars were expelled and run out of their country in spring 99. appr 12,000 were murdered. many of the women systematically raped,houses, villages burned, destroyed. survivors have the right to claim damages/reparations from blgd. this must be addressed,even at this late date.

--n.mitrovica: no functioning govt, no law and order, just mup/inter ethnic mafia control. law and order must be brought back, normal borders secured, normal custom points, etc. this is essntial for the "neighborhood" and in fact all of europe. shame on eulex.

--mass graves -- the balkans are full of them, chock full thanks to guess who? they must be located, or more specifically uncovered, and exhumed. the one at raska is only the most obvious and extreme case. it must be exhumed, now!

right of return -- for all, who choose to -- except war criminals, of course.

protecting rights of all minorites (kosova and serbia,of course)

protection of all holy/ cultural sites -- kosova and serbia. the descecration of holy sites and cemetaries throughout the balkans is disgusting and barbaric.

respect for sexual minorites (lgbt persons) --should go w/out saying, and is prt of euro standandards

well its just a partial list, but not a bad start. so instead of the incessant chitty chat and threats, let's get moving!

thanks.

roberto/ frisco

RE; Rugova/Milosevic Hague Transcripts

RUGOVA embarassing himself.

Agami was killed by albanian political rivals.

Hague exerpts reprinted below;


Rugova and Milosevic signed an agreement giving Kosovo, “extensive self-
government, along with the full respect for equality of all citizens in national
communities, the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Serbia and Yugoslavia. It was
noted that such an approach constitutes a basis for a lasting and just solution.”

He explained to the court that he expected his meeting with Milosevic “to be
confidential, but the accused insisted that it become public, and then it was
publicised.” He continued, “they thought that they could compromise me politically
and discredit me in the eyes of the Kosovar public, the Albanian public, and they also
wanted to foment conflicts on the Albanian political stage among Albanians.”

The agreement promised everything Rugova had been demanding, but he claims he
had signed it while under house arrest and in fear for his life. Milosevic suggested
another reason for their meeting. He said, “Mr. Rugova, you came to me, asking me
to save you and your family from a possible assassination perpetrated by the KLA.
Look me in the eyes and tell me whether that is true or not.” Rugova laughed at the
suggestion, saying he was not aware of any KLA killings: “No. Not even individual
cases or an organised campaign.”

In any event, Milosevic organised for Rugova to fly to Italy. A few days later, on May
6, 1999, Rugova heard that his close associate Fehmi Agani had been executed.
Rugova alleges that Serbian soldiers or paramilitaries were responsible. He claimed
there was no power struggle among the Albanians, saying, “For the accused, all
these, our structures have always been criminal ones, but I was never scared of
them, of being killed by any Albanians.”

When asked about press reports that KLA leader Hahim Thaci ordered the murder of
political rivals, Rugova said, “I don’t know about these things.” But after further
questioning about the killing of his own party members, including Haki Meri, the
president of the Srbica regional LDK, Rugova admitted, “About murders that took
place after the war, we started investigations.”

Oh man you are way off. Try to put status on the table and you will see what neotiations you will have. With 70 countries that have recognized us as an independent state and counting, full independence has never been closer than this in history...

For 100+ yrs we have endured all the misery and suffering a people can endure and now there is nothing that will make us go back.

It is only logical judging from the past experiences. The only way for us to protect ourselves is full independence. With time we will build an army to protect ourselves and I don't think you will be able to offer that in less than independence more than autonomy deal....

Serbia should have no say, and no influence on K-Alb.
(Denis, 14 September 2010 19:18)

Are you related to John Belushi? Because you’re a real comedian. If the negotiations on status are not on the table then what are you guys negotiating? How to find jobs for unemployed Albanians in Serbia proper? Get real!

By the way who is going to build and pay this Kosovo army? Wake up and smell the roses.



Lets, see Serbia drafts a resolution that says that status of Kosovo is unresolved and negotiations should take place, the EU has many, many meetings with Serbia to have any mention of status removed from the resolution or their quest for EU membership is dead.
Now posters here are celebrating because they think that both the EU and Serbia will force Kosovo into status negotiations and that independence is dead.
Does not sound like a logical thought process to me.
If EU were in favor of status negotiaions there would not have been any effort to change the resolution.
(pss, 14 September 2010 19:51)


Then what are the negotiations about then? The weather in Kosovo? The EU wanted the Resolution dropped completely so you will find that there was compromise on all sides but that does not resolve the status of Kosovo once and for all. There is more in these new waters than you Albanians think.

The west has sold you on this great win, but they did not win because they had to compromise, but you see there is another player that will scuttle these negotiations if not to its liking and they are called Russians.

Guys, full independence is dead. That's why we are negotiating.
(Zoran, 14 September 2010 16:29)
The only problem is you are sitting in a room and negotiating without anyone else present.
No UN, no EU, no US, no Kosovo and not even Serbia, just Zoran.

--war crimes and criminals__ all war crimes need to be adjudicated, esp 98-99, and "alleged" war criminals arrested and prosecuted.
roberto/ frisco
(roberto, 14 September 2010 21:42)
--
Great idea, lets see Bill Clinton and Tony Blair first up. We can deal with Thaci a little later on.

Guys, full independence is dead. That's why we are negotiating.
(Zoran, 14 September 2010 16:29)

Oh man you are way off. Try to put status on the table and you will see what neotiations you will have. With 70 countries that have recognized us as an independent state and counting, full independence has never been closer than this in history...

For 100+ yrs we have endured all the misery and suffering a people can endure and now there is nothing that will make us go back.

It is only logical judging from the past experiences. The only way for us to protect ourselves is full independence. With time we will build an army to protect ourselves and I don't think you will be able to offer that in less than independence more than autonomy deal....

Serbia should have no say, and no influence on K-Alb.

Lets, see Serbia drafts a resolution that says that status of Kosovo is unresolved and negotiations should take place, the EU has many, many meetings with Serbia to have any mention of status removed from the resolution or their quest for EU membership is dead.
Now posters here are celebrating because they think that both the EU and Serbia will force Kosovo into status negotiations and that independence is dead.
Does not sound like a logical thought process to me.
If EU were in favor of status negotiaions there would not have been any effort to change the resolution.

The only way to settle this problem once and for all is to exchange territories. Serbia gets the north for 3 Albanian inhabitted towns in South Serbia. If this doesn´t solve the problem, nothing ever will! And it´s a time to move on, these two nations simply don´t have the nature to live jointly with one another. Their aim from both sides is not to live together but to control one another.

"have you ever asked yourself when championing independence of a province within someone else's country, why there are only Albanian flags being flown? If this was about independence, the new Kosovo flags would be flying.

Albania is another nation, so how can 'independence' link to wanting to annex territory and join with another state?"

Kate,
Have you seen the Republika Srpska flag? And what flag do they fly there? It is same to the Serbian National flag? The Albanian flag is the symbol that all Albanians adhere to.

Talking about the North is not a status issue.
(Chensey, 14 September 2010 12:25)


Talking about the Presheva Valley is not a status issue either!.

Be ready to recognize our export, our licence plats, our passports, CEFTA, commercial flights over Serbian airspace to be allowed, pay some % for the profit by using Serbian phone code as Slovenia and Monaco paid when havent seen a cent coming from Belgrade and everything that is in line with International law or there wont be anything to starta a dialogue with. Northern issue is our own internal problem, what goes for churches and education in Serbian, property we can discuss those part also.

In my opinion when all the dust is settled and when all the talking is done:

N-Mitrovica will go under Serbia and presevo Vally will be under Kosovo. Or Serbs will be under under special statues in Kosovo which is not ideal for anyone.

K-albanians get something in return and new neighbor i Bulgaria.

And let life go on

LOL @ "dead"

Kind of reminds me of my crippled, demented grandma who hasn't walked in a decade calling the hospital every day to send a doctor to make her walk.

it's ok. one day reality will sink in. or it won't. doesn't matter really.

It is in the mater of fact the status issue, technical issue and so on. Dear my neighbors Serbs, more or less I agree with some of you as the status is concerned. But seem that we differ only on expectation or result over the matter. Many times I have posted my opinion, which is not partition of the current geographical state; because, in next 20 years there is more than obvious that Albanians will become the majority in this geographical range, call it however you like. If we add the presence of Muslims in Sandzak, Vlahs who don’t feel that much being Serbs, other minorities spread all over Serbia, we can easily come up with a clear prospect over Serbia’s future. Thus, I would be once more reaffirming my stance that the partition of Kosovo from this precious geographical domain is nothing but nice detailed elaborate long time ago by Serbian Academy.

Laugh all you like, but they are there to stamp out any fires in the Balkans that threaten their interests. Let me point you in the right direction – Southstream pipeline.

I don’t know about you but I have never seen Migs used for fighting fires.

The west has sold you on this great win, but they did not win because they had to compromise, but you see there is another player that will scuttle these negotiations if not to its liking and they are called Russians.
(sj, 15 September 2010 00:58)

With what means ??? the firefighters from Nis ??? LOL

Are you related to John Belushi? Because you’re a real comedian. If the negotiations on status are not on the table then what are you guys negotiating? How to find jobs for unemployed Albanians in Serbia proper? Get real!

By the way who is going to build and pay this Kosovo army? Wake up and smell the roses.

(sj, 15 September 2010 00:58)

Ohh man, so you think prishtina & belgrade have nothing to talk about other than status? 2 neigbouring countries don't need to talk about economic issues, minority issues, transportation, law & order agreements, trade etc etc?? wow what a logic?

I said that eventually (in a near future) K-Alb will build an army, and there is nothing you can do about it. Of course K-Alb taxpayers will pay for it, and the diaspora, they did pay for arming the KLA 10 yrs ago didn't they? Maybe small at first but growing with time...

Guys, full independence is dead. That's why we are negotiating.
(Zoran, 14 September 2010 16:29)

Ok the questioin is why is Serbia negotiating then? LOL they are just rtyuing to get north mitrovica nd trepce which they wont