Analyst: Opinion on Tadić slowly changing

This is utterly ridiculous. What country would simply accept the diktats of another in this way? The US certainly wouldn't. To compare Tadic with nationalists is not only stupid, it is utterly insulting - to nationalists as much as moderates.

If this really is US thinking then it shows just how frustrated they really are in Washington with the current situation and just how out of touch they have become. This could all be solved if they were willing to pit some pressure on Pristina to negotiate seriously. But, for reasons that are completely beyond understanding, they won't do that.

In any case, Belgrade should not cave in to such bullying from Washington or from the EU. They created this mess over Kosovo and now they want Serbia to get them off the hook without offering a single thing in return. All they offer are threats. This is particularly shameful behavior by the EU. I thought it was more honorable than this.

All part of an attempted blackmail to make Serbia fall in line and not cause a headache for the 'great masters' of the world.

How can anyone compare Serbia's moves through legitimate legal and political processes with anything negative from the past or present?

Good luck to Serbia at the UN - there are many countries who support Serbia's principled stance!

Here's the problem with what this idiot is saying. By the way, I'm sure happy that I am American because I can call another American an idiot; that's freedom of speech! At any rate, this mental midget says that Tadic is like nationalists because he refuses to capitulate to "some" Americans' demands. OK, as soon as someone doesn't let you have your way, they are all of the sudden nationalists? That is as idiotic an argument as I've ever heard. Whomever you are, go back to your desk job in your tiny cubicle and do whatever it is you do for fun. For my part, I'm happy Tadic isn't what you want him to be.

Why these Americans and EUROcrats think that the Kosovo UDI is the solution? What they have done is pure land grab and they should return Kosovo to Serbia. Takenote there will be no real solution and peace as long as the WEST ignores Serbia.

"Things will not change in Kosovo and Serbia should respect that, he added."

I think he's right, Kosovo won't become an UN member and won't be recognized by some dozens of other states, and there will be no further improvement of the situation.

He thinks that U.S. Vice President Joseph Biden and others have extended a friendly hand to Serbia but that the resolution is a factor that is now complicating things
=======================

Bombing Serbia is sure extending a hand of friendship. Then we have Biden coming over and dictating how things are going to be and that's a sign of friendship too. Then they tell Serbia they will be isolated because they anger the Gods. Now that's pure friendship.

I think that friendship should be left for Albanians. Serbia can do without it.

Wait, you mean there was a time when people is Washington *didn't* associate someone in power in Serbia with the politics of Milosevic? That's pretty rich. I had always assumed that was the overly simplified way of looking at a part of the world that didn't follow our tune.

But isn't Serbia's unwillingness to cooperate a direct result of Washington's "agree to disagree" position given earlier? I mean if you don't expect Serbia to recognize Kosovo, you inherently allow Serbia to pursue strategies that run counter to your foreign policy. Now you get upset that things aren't going as smoothly as planned two years ago and you're threatening said country with repercussions?

No wonder my country is only capable of taking down governments instead of putting up ones.

Like Jim, many here have voiced that comparing Tadic with nationalists is not only idiotic but insulting as well. I must join these voices. If Washington sees that there's no difference between Boris Tadić and Serbian nationalists she admits possessing an utterly ignorant view.

There's something badly wrong with Washington if she considers her latest actions and attitudes towards Serbia as friendly. What Washington does is very arrogant, not friendly. Washington may understand that they've given enough dollars to gain right to dictate. But it isn't to their choosing.

It is quite a common thing that USA's left hand doesn't (want to) know what the right one is up to. Therefore I would without a too big noise drop Mr. Wilson's analysis where it belongs: to garbage. I think Washington as a whole isn't as stupid as Mr. Wilson's words suggest. You naturally find there those who still are fighting against Serbia, and those who can't place the Balkans on map -because they never rotated their globe past the USA.

I believe Mr. Wilson speaks more that what he knows. After all, he's just trying to make his living.

“The draft resolution perpetuates and prolongs independence, which in my opinion isn’t contributing to the clarification of the situation regarding Kosovo,” he told Voice of America (VOA).
I don't think these people in Washington and Berlin get it. Kosovo is Serbia. Understand??
They engineered their man Tadic into power, and what they don't realize is that the Serbian constitution ensures that Kosovo is Serbia, and nobody can do anything about this. Nice try colonialists, but Kosovo is Serbia, deal with it!!

""hand extended to Belgrade could be withdrawn.""

What hand would that be? I haven't seen anything other than a hand that says give up your land written on it. USA and Brussels haven't really shown much. The Visa waiver was long overdue and earned, not 'extended'.
What exactly are they talking about?

1. Top wrote:

""Things will not change in Kosovo and Serbia should respect that, he added."

I think he's right, Kosovo won't become an UN member and won't be recognized by some dozens of other states, and there will be no further improvement of the situation"
...


2. dht:

... through negotiations.

In addition, "KOSOVA" won´t become an EU member state,


The only prospering sector in "KOSOVA" is and will remain criminality (especially heroin export).

Why these Americans and EUROcrats think that the Kosovo UDI is the solution? What they have done is pure land grab and they should return Kosovo to Serbia. Takenote there will be no real solution and peace as long as the WEST ignores Serbia.
(PRO-SERBIA, 7 September 2010 12:54)

Your comment sounds as if Serbia is an important factor in the world. Please stop this euphoria. Serbia is just another little Balkan country (like other countries in the Bakans) which no major world factor will ever take very seriosly (also like other Balkan countries that do not taken seriously).

As far as peace in the Balkans goes, I do not think that Serbia (or any other Balkan country) will ever again have the capacity to dictate the peace.

This has been known since 08, the problem is that if Tadic's, Nikolic's and their bureaucratic underlings lose credibility if they abandon the EU, the Hague sends Seselj back, then Seselj comes out the big political winner at Nikolic's & Tadic's expense being right all along. Thus continutes an EU charade that should've ended years ago.

"For my part, I'm happy Tadic isn't what you want him to be."

Well, he is actually. Since he´s a product of US imperial designs of "regime change" in order to create vassals in strategic locations, short of recognizing the US land grab in serbia, he is everything Wilson & Co could ever dream of next to his "brother" in Georgia, the two remaining colour coded regimes not rolled back to independence yet.

But i do hope that Tadic takes his masters words as a lesson in better obediance, make no mistake, he WANTS to recognize whatever they want him to but that will be political suicide for him and
the only way for serbia to get rid of the current loop of puppet regimes.

"Good morning, Mr. Wilson!
How long did it take to understand that Milosevic is NOT a "factor of stability" in the Balkans?"

It took long, yes. And one fine day, the US will find out that Thaci isn't a "factor of stability" neither (but the opposite).

what if the friendly hand the US-american regime could be withdrawn?

fine! there are others, who would happily reach out their hands towards Serbia, and that even farther than the US could possibly wish.
and I am certainly not only talking about China and Russia or Brasil and India.

so, these empty threats by a socalled "analyst" are really, really, really absolutely frightening...



the times of US-occupation are going to end, and with silly threats you won´t prevent that.


as for Tadic..., Tadic is a "westerner", so, trying to sell the story of him being a serb nationalist is just ridiculous.

you should rather be good to him, because that´s the best ( most obedient ) president you can get in Serbia.

but times will change, and you will lose.

Exactly the same analysis could be made by the Serbian government on the US administration. We had hoped for a modification of position, we have seen little in that regard. In contrast Serbia has agreed to compromise.

But we complain about them, they complain about us. Where does that get us. Rather than complaining why not focus efforts on solving the issue at hand.

Besides I think it was highly unrealistic to expect a U turn from Serbia on Kosovo. Everybody who has an elemental knowledge of contemporary history would realise that such a U turn is highly unrealistic.

Good luck to Serbia at the UN - there are many countries who support Serbia's principled stance!
(kate, 7 September 2010 13:03)

... and there are a lot more who don't. Also,I would not go as far as to call it principled. More like stubborn.

I agree with Peggy...this is a pure nonsense! They are the best friends so far. Destroying a country, amputated a huge territory, threatening and yet not letting people to have their own opinion??? Real friends!!! I wish Serbians to stay their ground and have dignity! The west is hypocritical and the policy of carrot is the best they know to do. Don`t give up!

Joe, when the message is utterly wrong, I will chastise the messenger. He said nothing of essence. I am American born and raised and I know exactly how American people think. I have what is know as a strong theory of mind; it probably comes from being a professor at the graduate level. Just because someone says something doesn't make it true. This is what's known as magical thinking; great for Disney, but not so good for politics. To equate Tadic to the old guard in Serbia just because he doesn't agree with what SOME Americans believe is the truth (not the small t), is insane. The fact is that Tadic has done much to appease those whom want to take Kosovo without compromise. Intelligent people would understand why Serbia wants to negotiate and negotiate with no pre-conditions; as you all remember Rice kept on spouting that in the end Kosovo will be independent in the midst of the so-called negotiations with the contact group (or whatever the group was called). Those were not negotiations and they left the situation in a mess that will last perpetually. Tadic wants negotiations and some US officials don't. The only solution is one in the middle. That's some free lecturing from someone who teaches theory of mind for a living.

Cees - no, the current mess was created by US intransigence, supported by key EU members.

The fact is that in every other conflict the west preaches reconciliation and the maintenance of borders: Iraq, Cyprus, Sri Lanka, Georgia, etc. You cannot for one moment tell me that the Kosovo Albanians suffered more than Kurds, Tamils, Turkish Cypriots or Abkhazians. And yet, Kosovo was 'allowed' independence by the west when these others are not. Why? Partly because some people in Washington have a grudge against Serbia. That much is clear. However, and more realistically, they got involved on a conflict they didn't truly understand. They saw it as black and white, when these things are usually very grey. By the time they had intervened and realized that the KAs are just as capable of brutality as the Serbs it was too late. Threats of violence by the KAs if they didn't get what they wanted meant that there was no choice but to support independence - even if it meant breaking international law and setting a dangerous precedent. (By the way, the ICJ did not say that Kosovo's statehhod is legal, and it is certainly not a unique case.)

No one denies what Milosevic did. However, the west created an almighty mess when it decided that it would treat Kosovo differently from countless other conflicts around the world and then expected everyone else, including Russia and China, to just fall into line and not allow them to apply the same rationale to their pet projects (such as Abkhazia and South Ossetia). That was just utter stupidity and arrogance.

Joe - I am not sure what your issues are, but you really don't have a dog in this particular fight. You just sound like a rather bitter individual, for reasons that are not very clear.

Hmmm, many here and probably in Serbia criticize Tadic because he is in the pockets of the EU and US, how best to combat that?
Possibly by announcing how suddenly the US is now of the opinion that Tadic is another nationalist to not be trusted. Is it working?

Good morning, Mr. Wilson!
How long did it take to understand that Milosevic is NOT a "factor of stability" in the Balkans?

Two days ago we had 69 recognition today we have 71.
Meanwhile Serbia can count only on 50-55 countries that really support serbian side.
Everyone agrees that Kosovo issue is out of serbian's hands and Serbia is in better position if it understands this and cut the losses asap.This is the most pragmatic way to deal with the situation,which I can not see on serbian side.
Give albanians a deal with exchange territories and move on.The region is better off with an independent Kosovo.

If you don't agree with them, you're a nationalist, xenophobic, extremist individual. Communism = Capitalism = Globalisation

Fight on Serbia!

I agree with exchange of territory this should give everyone something to feel happy about.

Albanians can get new Flag and Serbs can go on being happy with north Kosovo (but no more extra pay).

I dont think any one thinks that Serbia will get kosovo back without War (even though some Serbs from Diaspora mite want that) is not happening.

On the other hand there is no difference between the current US administration and it's predecessors.

There is however a great deal of difference between Tadic and the nationalists.

Wilson should stop whinging and find a method whereby the US can make constructive progress on Kosovo. First they will have to take on board Serbia's valid and natural position on Kosovo.

There's no point in the US digging their heels in and stating that the situation in/on Kosovo cannot change - it has to !

Secondly Tadic is a democratically elected representative of Serbia so I think we can assume he speaks for the Serb majority. Wilson is mistaken in dismissing Tadic and suggesting that he knows what's best for Serbia.

Deb- Serbia has paid the price for anything it may have done and more. It is the others who have gotten away with murder, but not for ever.

Besides I think it was highly unrealistic to expect a U turn from Serbia on Kosovo. "Everybody who has an elemental knowledge of contemporary history would realise that such a U turn is highly unrealistic" (quote bgnon"

This is a very big part of the problem, Serbian history is not understood, much less respected, this battle is much older than the late 20th Century.

Inexadra - the simple answer is that Serbia is on the path to EU membership and things have changed in how we understand human and minority rights. This is not Yugoslavia and Tadic is not Milosevic. All sorts of international and constitutional guarantees could have been put in place to ensure that any agreement on autonomy was respected. No one seriously believes that a deal on autonomy would have been unilaterally revoked.

For example, you could ask exactly the same of the Turkish Cypriots. What is to say that any deal they reach with the Greek Cypriots will be respected; after all the Greek Cypriots tried to change the original constitution. And yet we refuse to accept their right to independence and insist that they must reach an agreement with the Greek Cypriots? Surely their concerns and mistrust of the Greek Cypriots is no less of the Kosovo Albanians regarding Serbs.

But this really was not the issue. The KAs didn't want to compromise and this issue of revoking autonomy was a convenient justification for intransigence backed by threats of violence, which the west, idiotically, gave in to. As I said before, the west is happy to push the line of reconciliation and respect for borders in all sorts of other situations where there have been past human rights abuses, but decided not to follow the same line in Kosovo. It was their mistake not to have given the situation far more consideration from the very start.

"Whomever you are, go back to your desk job in your tiny cubicle and do whatever it is you do for fun. "
Daniel

Just because you dont't like the messanger of negative opinions those opinions will not change. This disillusionment with the curent Serbian leadership is not good for Serbia.

What many Serbians have forgotten is that Kosovo achieved a state similar to BiH, a predominant sorting of ethnicities ... the former accomplished through war followed by the Dayton Accord and the latter by war and also blessed by the World Powers. When will the Serbs realize that they cannot have everything? Serbs in Bosnia acquired Republica Serpska, but now the Serbs in Serbia have to let go of Kosovo... for the Muslims. Everything in life has a price and it is now Serbia's time to pay for their past actions and instead focus on the future so that they can actually drag their country out of its third world economic state.

Why do you insist on bitting the hand that feeds you? Is Serbia being a better friend to the region or anybody else?
(prrru, 7 September 2010 17:00)
=======================

Nobody feeds Serbia. Serbia is quite capable of looking after herself. If you are talking about trade then say so but trade is not feeding anyone. It's business.

Imagine, an Albanian talking about someone being fed and then biting that hand. Kosovo is the only charity case there.
If you want to detract from yourself, you attack. Doesn't work I'm afraid. We the world are smarter than that.

This typically, arrogant opinion should be read aloud to the member nations of the General Assembly on Thursday. This is how washington regards foreign leaders: who is in their pocket and who isn't. Vuk should characterize the voting this way: YES on Serbia's resolution - You are NOT in the us pocket.
NO - You are feeding on the lint in the us pocket.
ABSTAIN - You are in denial about your life in the us pocket.

This is another dirty trick from Washington-by critisizing Tadic, an american poodle, the west thinks it will raise Tadics' approval among the majority of Serbs who oppose him.

"Based on preliminary reports from Blic, it looks like they made the turn anyway, unrealistic or not." (Amer)

-- Well they don't call it "Blic" for nothing. They seem to report on things before they can be verified. The whole "Belgrade and Pristina are secretly talking about a land swap" story was enough to raise eyebrows but never (unfortunately) came to light.

If an agreement is actually reached between Belgrade and Brussels, well first, great! But I'd be curious to see what they agreed on beyond changing the wording of the resolution around. Particularly how stances are harmonized over whether Kosovo gets a different color from Serbia on the map.

The Serbian part of B92 only says thus far that Tadic and Ashton met, talked, and agreed to more talks.

Wonderful. Nothing definitive.

- My question: “Who created this mass over Kosovo?” Answer: “In the first place it was the officially elected president of ’Rest-Yugoslavia’, Milosevic”.
=======================

Wrong, very, very wrong. It was the Albanians themselves who created this mess by ethnically cleansing Serbs from Kosovo for decades. They only stepped up this cleansing and murder (murdered policemen) in order to provoke a severe reacting from Serbia, which they got. Unfortunately Milosevic fell for this trap.

We have to go a lot further than 1999 in order to understand what happened.

He thinks that U.S. Vice President Joseph Biden and others have extended a friendly hand to Serbia but that the resolution is a factor that is now complicating things.

I think you will find that the US led bombing of Belgrade hardly constitutes a friendly hand and the fact that Serbia is even talking to the US now is, in my opinion, a miracle of diplomacy and pragmatism. It is about time that the promise of the EU integration being seperate from the Kosovo issue was honoured. Labelling Tadic as a Nationalist is just absurd, unless of course being a Nationalist means looking after the national interest of your own country. If that is the definition then Obahma can be described in the same way. Come on everyone, lets apply a little more common sense to this situation. Serbia is protecting her land in the same way that any other nation on earth would do in the same circumstances. She is protecting it in an honest, diplomatic and peacefully pragmatic way. The last thing she needs is a bunch of heavy handed hypocrites threatening and blackmailing her. Just do as she has been requesting all this time and get everyone around a table talking. Surely, the best way forward is to talk?

What internationals seem to think is that not even Tadic is a traitor to his country!
Looks like the americans are again trying to use propaganda against Serbia to make us look like the bad guy. America has stolen something very dear to Serbs, now that we want it back we are the guilty ones.
American democracy.

"I have what is know as a strong theory of mind; it probably comes from being a professor at the graduate level. Just because someone says something doesn't make it true. "
Daniel

You can be a professor at a graduate level and still have a so-called "closed mind" unwilling to recognize and face reality when it comes to Kosovo. And just because you were born and raised in the US as a Serbian American it does not garanty that you truly know the opinion of most unbiased Americans, who do not share your emotional link.

"The fact is that Tadic has done much to appease those whom want to take Kosovo without compromise."

Appeased some with more sophisticated tactics but even those people start to realise that his thinking is the same. And about "want to take Kosovo"? Isn't it already taken since Serbia has absolutely no control on it?

Intelligent people would understand why Serbia wants to negotiate and negotiate with no pre-conditions;

But why would the other side negociate when you could never give more than autonomy (with the risk of revoking it later)? The K-Albanians have already much more than what you could ever offer to them.

- My question: “Who created this mass over Kosovo?” Answer: “In the first place it was the officially elected president of ’Rest-Yugoslavia’, Milosevic”.


My question is: "Who is it who ignores the situation in Kosovo before Milosevic?"

"No one will beat you" - Now what was that all about then?

What of the demonstrations in Pristina in 1982 and calls for independence then or the rampant discrimination against non-albanians through the 70s to the 80s that forced them to leave?

Still, why bother even mentioning albanian responsibility for anything? I suppose it is not politically correct.

Joe, have you ever considered the possibility that the Americans who are against Serbia and Pro-Albanian Kosovo are biased too. Just because my mother was Serbian doesn't mean I go for everything that Serbia does. I did not support Milosevic at all ever. I didn't like it in the old days when Serbs and other Jugoslavs would have pictures of Tito on their walls as if here were a deity. Truth is the only answer. I seek the truth. It is clear to the most OBJECTIVE Americans that the Kosovo issue as it is presented by SOME Americans is BS. There is a story line that must not be violated. However, once one digs deeper into the story, one uncovers the poor plot. The plot states that Serbs would get rid of all Albanians if they could. The reality is different. The reality states that during the Milosevic era, one leader (Milosevic) was power hungry and did anything to cling to power. Reality also states that Serbs overthrew him peacefully. The new government is very pro-Western. It just has one stipulation in its pro-Western Stance; leave Kosovo alone unless we negotiate in a realistic fashion that is fair to everyone. Yes, Serbs offered no more than autonomy. Why should they have offered more? Albanians refused it. OK, that's how negotiations work. Eventually something is found in the middle. Now, instead we get a stalemate that will persist and persist.

The US administration has been and continues to be racist and discriminatory. It is prepared to support a negotiated settlement for the Israel Palestine impasse with talks arranged at the highest level. For Serbia and the Albanians the US has imposed its own solution and at worst was quiet happy to bomb Serbia. I hope that one day the Albanians and the Serbs will treat US policy in the Balkans with the contempt it deserves. So far their shoddy treatment of the peoples in the Balkans has delivered zero progress for both Serbs and Albanians. The Kosovo Albanians have a list of worthless recognitions and the Serbs some 15% of their territory amputated to host a US military camp. Fairly obvious who the beneficiary is!

Johny - and once again you prove so perfectly why Kosovo is still so very far off meeting the essential values of reconciliation and tolerance that would make a deal possible. By the way, I trust you will have no problems when Serbia takes formal responsibility for protecting the Serbs in northern Kosovo. Can't have everything your own way.

By the way, I hope you are suitably miserable that the EU has finally accepted that the Kosovo issue is not solved after all. After all, this is what the Serbian-EU (and not Albanian-US) GA resolution basically says.

Pure propaganda...Tadic is still "our man" in Serbia..but is weak ..mainly for the economic situation so the Kosovo pill is hard to swallow for the Serbs...As i repeat it's a "cul de sac" because EU can't make promises of FAST TREK for accession and can't cancel the foreign debt of Serbia...

To Johny re: 'Huge huge difference here. These talks are being held only after the other side agreed prior to sitting on the table that there will be two states after these negotiations are over. '
The two sides do have their own states Serbia and Albania.

"Bombing Serbia is sure extending a hand of friendship. Then we have Biden coming over and dictating how things are going to be and that's a sign of friendship too. Then they tell Serbia they will be isolated because they anger the Gods. Now that's pure friendship.

I think that friendship should be left for Albanians. Serbia can do without it.
(Peggy"

Will you show us by the same examples of who is Serbias "true" friends than?

As i see it in paper and real life, the same people who support Kosovo feed over 90% of the Serbs inside and outside Serbia.

Why do you insist on bitting the hand that feeds you? Is Serbia being a better friend to the region or anybody else?

Peggy and a few others here...
=========================

I don't understand how you find it impossible to imagine that two countries can be friendly today, but have been enemies before. Europe (EU) especially is a prime example of the new reality.

All it takes is a change in attitude and willingness to admit responsibility.

Also, despite the series of disagreements in the past few years, I don't remember Serbia being bombed while under Tadic or his predecessor.

I do remember Serbia being bombed when it was under Milosevic however.

Wrong, very, very wrong. It was the Albanians themselves who created this mess by ethnically cleansing Serbs from Kosovo for decades. They only stepped up this cleansing and murder (murdered policemen) in order to provoke a severe reacting from Serbia, which they got. Unfortunately Milosevic fell for this trap.

We have to go a lot further than 1999 in order to understand what happened.

Peggy, Aleks,

I don't know what kind of history lessons you have got at school. Maybe you and many others in your country (with exemptions) believe this myth. The history of Kosovo in the 20th Century is one of the cruelest in how acting (Serbian) masters mistreated their fellow-citizens the Albanians. It would take me too long to bring you all the sources to support it by the abundance of documents. Of course if you base your opinion only on Serbian sources you may come to this conclusion, though you'll find even opposite articles written by Serbian historians. It is your doctrine based on Serbian stories of the 1980-ties that brought to life this myth and Milosevic to power. It is a scam if a nation doesn't stand to his deeds and always points to others. I can tell you that just a few really believe that the Serbs are the victims in the case with Kosovo and even among your Russian 'friends' you'll find doubting opinions in relation to that.

These are not 'stories' Cees. I have met many people who were forced or intimidated in to leaving Kosovo.

But well done though. I see you seem it fit to descend to using personal slurs and make up what you think other people think as long as it furthers your own beliefs.

Would you mind not putting words in to other people's mouths or is that considered acceptable where you live?

Everyone who has any real interest in the region knows there have long been problems in the region so I don't appreciate you questioning my education (a very cheap and low shot) as you know absolutely nothing about me. I can play the same game if you want but why should I feed your arrogance and bad manners? You really leave a bad taste in the mouth and an extremely poor impression.

'It is clear to the most OBJECTIVE Americans that the Kosovo issue as it is presented by SOME Americans is BS. There is a story line that must not be violated.'

Strange! I've yet to see a poll that confirms what you're saying.
I don't know where you are getting this information.

Here's the one question I have been seeking an answer to in my attempt to come to an opinion on this issue, which so far no one has been able or willing to actually answer:

Under Serbian sovereignty, Kosovo and its Albanian population would lack the legal protections afforded to sovereign states. Conversely, under a separate Kosovo, Kosovo Serbs would have good reason to worry about the same lack of protection. Now, if Kosovo remains under Serbian sovereignty, what reason would the Albanians have to trust the Serbian government as the more powerful entity in that arrangement? In other words, if the Serbian government (including all future governments), commanding a military of at least 40,000 (more?) is the more powerful entity in such an arrangement, what would guarantee that any autonomy afforded to the Albanians would not be revoked in the future? What would prevent, say, an attack on an Orthodox church or a Serbian neighborhood from provoking a violent response by the Serbian government against Kosovo?

It is a legitimate question, and one that I feel has never been answered satisfactorily. I would be interested to hear what you think

Joe, when the message is utterly wrong, I will chastise the messenger. He said nothing of essence. I am American born and raised and I know exactly how American people think. I have what is know as a strong theory of mind; it probably comes from being a professor at the graduate level. Just because someone says something doesn't make it true. This is what's known as magical thinking; great for Disney, but not so good for politics. To equate Tadic to the old guard in Serbia just because he doesn't agree with what SOME Americans believe is the truth (not the small t), is insane. The fact is that Tadic has done much to appease those whom want to take Kosovo without compromise. Intelligent people would understand why Serbia wants to negotiate and negotiate with no pre-conditions; as you all remember Rice kept on spouting that in the end Kosovo will be independent in the midst of the so-called negotiations with the contact group (or whatever the group was called). Those were not negotiations and they left the situation in a mess that will last perpetually. Tadic wants negotiations and some US officials don't. The only solution is one in the middle. That's some free lecturing from someone who teaches theory of mind for a living.
Daniel

- Daniel, William Ayeres is a university professor.
You could say he teaches theory of mind and is willing to provide free lectures for those who are willing to listen.

Anyway, just like you said, just because you say something it doesn't mean it's true.

Inexadra - the simple answer is that Serbia is on the path to EU membership and things have changed in how we understand human and minority rights. This is not Yugoslavia and Tadic is not Milosevic. All sorts of international and constitutional guarantees could have been put in place to ensure that any agreement on autonomy was respected. No one seriously believes that a deal on autonomy would have been unilaterally revoked.

For example, you could ask exactly the same of the Turkish Cypriots. What is to say that any deal they reach with the Greek Cypriots will be respected; after all the Greek Cypriots tried to change the original constitution. And yet we refuse to accept their right to independence and insist that they must reach an agreement with the Greek Cypriots? Surely their concerns and mistrust of the Greek Cypriots is no less of the Kosovo Albanians regarding Serbs.

But this really was not the issue. The KAs didn't want to compromise and this issue of revoking autonomy was a convenient justification for intransigence backed by threats of violence, which the west, idiotically, gave in to. As I said before, the west is happy to push the line of reconciliation and respect for borders in all sorts of other situations where there have been past human rights abuses, but decided not to follow the same line in Kosovo. It was their mistake not to have given the situation far more consideration from the very start.
(Jim, 8 September 2010 08:16)

Jim your logic is flawed. The Turkish army is the guarantor of peace in this whole issue So it is this force of the Turkish army that defends the Turkish Cypriots and not your flowery insistence on agreement or some international or constitutional guarantees that would really guaranteed only be the Serbian army and nothing else. Well we had those very same things you mentioned, and we all know how it ended.

If things end up the way you envision them then the Serbs would have the teeth and the force of their army while the Kosova Albanians have nothing to guarantee them peace; you know in the same way the Turkish army guarantees the peace of the Turkish Cypriots. It is not as naively as you explain them. What would stop them from annulling these guarantees as they have done before? There would be no army to counteract them, no army to scare them of their moves and defend the rights of the Albanians. That is why there is an army now; and even with an army there they pass a constitution claiming Albanians as their subjects while they shamelessly remove them from the voters list for this constitution. Even an international NATO army and the fact that they were in the middle of a negotiating process didn't stop them from changing this constitional guarantees you're so fond of. KFOR acted in the same way as the Turkish army does for the Turkish Cypriots. . It balances things out. . That in the past and for now is achieved through KFOR; in the future through the army of Kosova and guaranteed by the recognition of sovereignty from the most advanced and industrialized countries.
P.S Considering that Serbia has no military option on the table, name me one difference between Tadic and Milosevic when it comes to Kosova. Nothing has changed with regards to human rights in Serbia. Just look at what is happening in Sandjak. Also everyone but the Serbs seriously believe that autonomy would be unilaterally revoked since the only guarantor of such autonomy and the Serb constitution would be the Serb army. Again we've had that before and we've seen how it ended. Again Serbia unilaterally declared Kosova Albanians as its subjects in the middle of a negotiating process with KFOR troops on the ground and while denying them the rights to vote for the very same continuation that declared them Serb subjects. Nothing has changed. Nothing will. Serbia will remain the same old Serbia it ever was.

I don’t know if it is of a great importance to bring all these different opinions of analysts, even if he is a foreign policy adviser in Washington like Damon Wilson. In a way it is amusing to read the reactions of some of the readers:
“They created this mess over Kosovo and now they want Serbia to get them off the hook without offering a single thing in return”.
- My question: “Who created this mass over Kosovo?” Answer: “In the first place it was the officially elected president of ’Rest-Yugoslavia’, Milosevic”.

“Well, he is actually. Since he´s a product of US imperial designs of "regime change" in order to create vassals in strategic locations”, or “as for Tadic..., Tadic is a "westerner", so, trying to sell the story of him being a serb nationalist is just ridiculous. you should rather be good to him, because that´s the best ( most obedient ) president you can get in Serbia”, or “There is however a great deal of difference between Tadic and the nationalists”.
Others: “Like Jim, many here have voiced that comparing Tadic with nationalists is not only idiotic but insulting as well. I must join these voices. If Washington sees that there's no difference between Boris Tadić and Serbian nationalists she admits possessing an utterly ignorant view”, or “Possibly by announcing how suddenly the US is now of the opinion that Tadic is another nationalist to not be trusted. Is it working?”
My view: As well as Jeremic also Tadic could work together in a government lead by the Ultra-Nationalist Kostunica and share his international policy of denial of any negative role by Serbia in handling of the Kosovo crises. They both supported strongly Serbia’s change of their constitution in 2007 on which the EUROPEAN COMMISSION FOR DEMOCRACY THROUGH LAW published critically in Strasbourg on March 17:
“6. The text of the Preamble considers the Province of Kosovo and Metohija as an integral part of the territory of Serbia enjoying the status of substantial autonomy. As regards the future status of Kosovo, it is not up to the Venice Commission to interfere with the political process designed to determine Kosovo’s future status under Resolution 1244(1999) of the Security Council. As a member of the United Nations, Serbia will have to respect the respective decisions by the Security Council.

7. With respect to substantial autonomy, an examination of the Constitution, and more specifically of Part VII, makes it clear that this substantial autonomy of Kosovo is not at all guaranteed at the constitutional level, as the Constitution delegates almost every important aspect of this autonomy to the legislature. In Part I on Constitutional Principles, Article 12 deals with provincial autonomy and local self-government. It does so in a rather ambiguous way: on the one hand, in the first paragraph it provides that state power is limited by the right of citizens to provincial autonomy and local self-government, yet on the other hand it states that the right of citizens to provincial autonomy and local self-government shall be subject to supervision of constitutionality and legality. Hence it is clear that ordinary law can restrict the autonomy of the Provinces.

8. This possibility of restricting the autonomy of the Provinces by law is confirmed by almost every article of Part 7 of the Constitution, and more specifically by:

- Article 182, par. 2: “The substantial autonomy of the Autonomous Province of Kosovo and Methohija shall be regulated by the special law which shall be adopted in accordance with the process envisaged for amending the Constitution.”
- Article 183. par. 4: “The territory of autonomous provinces and the terms under which borders between autonomous provinces may be altered shall be regulated by the law …”
- Article 183, par. 2: “Autonomous provinces shall, in accordance with the law, regulate matters of provincial interest in the following fields …”
- Article 183, par. 3: “Autonomous provinces shall see to it that human and minority rights are respected, in accordance with the Law.”
- Article 183, par. 5: “Autonomous provinces shall manage the provincial assets in the manner stipulated by the Law.”
- Article 183, par. 6: “Autonomous provinces shall, in accordance with the Constitution and the Law, have direct revenues, …”
- Article 184, par. 1 to 3: “An autonomous province shall have direct revenues for financing its competences. The kind and amount of direct revenues shall be stipulated by the Law. The Law shall specify the share of autonomous provinces in the revenues of the Republic of Serbia.”

Hence, in contrast with what the preamble announces, the Constitution itself does not at all guarantee substantial autonomy to Kosovo, for it entirely depends on the willingness of the National Assembly of the Republic of Serbia whether self-government will be realised or not”.


This is the part of the action by the Serbian state that has hindered every further negotiation on the Kosovo-Status and lead incessantly to the UID of Kosovo. Tadic approved as President this construct and I am not sure, if he is strong enough and has enough support to correct this constitution. Serbia in the recent past did a lot to lay them-selves a lot of big rocks in their own way and for sure the one of Kosovo’s independence will appear to be too heavy to get it away the way they like, even not by dynamite and spring it.


“I think that friendship should be left for Albanians. Serbia can do without it”. It is cynical but in a way you are right! For friendship you need mutual trust and I think on both sides it is not existent. Serbian unilateral actions in connection with ‘asking the opinion of the ICJ’, ‘ no acceptance of the ICJ-judgment’, and ‘one-sided sent resolution to the UNGA’ didn’t strengthen the trust at the USA/EU side.

"Joe - I am not sure what your issues are, but you really don't have a dog in this particular fight. You just sound like a rather bitter individual, for reasons that are not very clear."
Jim

Jim there is no reason for me to be a bitter individual, on the contrary. But I am a long time sympathyzer and supporter of the K-Albanians whose case is getting better and better. So I am very upbeat for them.

"Strange! I've yet to see a poll that confirms what you're saying.
I don't know where you are getting this information.
(kb, 8 September 2010 14:15) "

Ditto.

Besides, isn't this just a cheap propaganda trick, claiming that "everybody" thinks something, so it must be true? For some people, it's a powerful argument, of course. Don't you cover that in your "theory of mind" lectures, Daniel?

My best guess is that only a vanishingly small percentage of Americans remember anything at all about the war in Kosovo - many things have happened here since then. Most of the those who are aware of the issues have a personal connection to the country, it seems from the posts here, and therefore can be expected to be biased. The rest of them (except me, unfortunately) apparently are employed by some Washington think-tank and interpret Balkan affairs through ideological glasses. I'm not saying I don't have biases myself, but they stem from my understanding of my own country's history and values and a prejudice in favor of these values. Other Americans may interpret these and the facts differently, but the point is that - based on my own observations, trying to get casual discussions of the news going - almost nobody is aware of them. Hence my hanging out here.

KB, I have yet to see a poll that shows that Objective Americans (or Americans in general regardless of objectivity) support Kosovo's UDI either. I agree with what Amer said; they probably couldn't give a darn about it and in fact I doubt more than a small percentage even know what Kosovo is.

Amer, being a professor is a special responsibility. In my work, I'm interested in keeping people from behaving in ways that jeopardizes their health. Having a strong theory of mind helps prevent individuals from falling prey to false truths, such as second hand smoke is not harmful. One pitfall though, theory of mind doesn't always mean good outcomes. Many crooks and bullies have strong theories of mind; it allows them to manipulate others. If you want to know the truth, it's not helpful unless it's balanced by empathy.

"YES on Serbia's resolution - You are NOT in the us pocket.
NO - You are feeding on the lint in the us pocket.
ABSTAIN - You are in denial about your life in the us pocket.
JohnBoy

You sound to be pretty desperate to come up with such ideas of 40 years ago when there was a fairly strong communist block and you were able to manipulate some so-called third-world countries against the US. Those "glorious" years, when you could do that are gone with the wind.

"The US administration has been and continues to be racist and discriminatory. It is prepared to support a negotiated settlement for the Israel Palestine impasse with talks arranged at the highest level. For Serbia and the Albanians the US has imposed its own solution and at worst was quiet happy to bomb Serbia."

-- Huge huge difference here. These talks are being held only after the other side agreed prior to sitting on the table that there will be two states after these negotiations are over. This is a huge difference. I don't see Serbia agreeing to anything like this. In case you've been deaf all this time, our side of the isle has been screaming for the last two years that negotiations such as those the US supports would be ok if Serbia abolishes its constitution and agrees to recognize Kosova prior to sitting. Nobody in Serbia has the guts to do that; nobody is legally allowed to do that. So don't complain. Mentality wise you're a few decades behind Israel. When you reach them then you can hope for US support of negotiations. Until then keep complaining.



"I hope that one day the Albanians and the Serbs will treat US policy in the Balkans with the contempt it deserves. So far their shoddy treatment of the peoples in the Balkans has delivered zero progress for both Serbs and Albanians."

-- Actually this is not true. As far as US policy is concerned it has always brought progress for the Albanian people and I say that as a proud Albanian-American. Albania today exists as a state only because of the US insistent policies. Kosova and the Albanian's living there today exists only because of US policies. Belive me it is way better than the 90's. The Ohrid agreement in Macedonia exists only because of US policies. It has been very beneficial for us. It has brought peace to all our people. Now its time to progress with their support.


"The Kosovo Albanians have a list of worthless recognitions and the Serbs some 15% of their territory amputated to host a US military camp. Fairly obvious who the beneficiary is!"


-- Actually every one of those recognitions are worth it. You know why? We are the beneficiaries of US policy. Just because you're bitter to them doesn't mean we should also. They say misery loves company but we ain't gonna be your company. Find it elsewhere.

'Besides I think it was highly unrealistic to expect a U turn from Serbia on Kosovo. Everybody who has an elemental knowledge of contemporary history would realise that such a U turn is highly unrealistic.'

Based on preliminary reports from Blic, it looks like they made the turn anyway, unrealistic or not.

This will take some high-level spinning.

I can just see the U.S. ambassador at the UN during the meeting, editing on the fly the approval letter from the Albanians calling for unanimous acceptance of the new, revised resolution: cross out "shoved down their throats," read "came to a mutual agreement," for "the ICJ decision that says we're free, free, free!" read "the wise and measured decision of the ICJ," ... This is what we pay diplomats for, after all. Isn't it?

Inexadra - the simple answer is that Serbia is on the path to EU membership and things have changed in how we understand human and minority rights. This is not Yugoslavia and Tadic is not Milosevic. All sorts of international and constitutional guarantees could have been put in place to ensure that any agreement on autonomy was respected. No one seriously believes that a deal on autonomy would have been unilaterally revoked.

But this really was not the issue. The KAs didn't want to compromise and this issue of revoking autonomy was a convenient justification for intransigence backed by threats of violence, which the west, idiotically, gave in to. As I said before, the west is happy to push the line of reconciliation and respect for borders in all sorts of other situations where there have been past human rights abuses, but decided not to follow the same line in Kosovo. It was their mistake not to have given the situation far more consideration from the very start.
(Jim, 8 September 2010 08:16)

Oh man, you are way off here. There is no reasonable cause, and in fact there is none in their right mind that believes a Kosovo Albanian autonomy will be a stable and sustainable status in the future.

If you only take a slight look into history and past precedents, you will see that there is no substance to that claim whatsoever, it is really a mere wishful thinking, especially after the war of 1999.

KAs didn't want a compromise, cause they know through life experience that this compromise would be a great gamble for them and the future of their children.

KAs acted on the most basic concept of self-preservation. How many times would you want to see Serb armies expelling and killing KAs to be convinced that a co-existence within one state of these two people is simply not an achiavable reality... I mean really is there a limit, or a breaking point that KAs have not suffered yet, and that will make this autonomy deal not realistic?

"Johny - and once again you prove so perfectly why Kosovo is still so very far off meeting the essential values of reconciliation and tolerance that would make a deal possible. By the way, I trust you will have no problems when Serbia takes formal responsibility for protecting the Serbs in northern Kosovo. Can't have everything your own way. "


-- Jim, you state a few things here claiming them to be absolute truths. Yet you fail to explain why are they absolute truths.

Also I have no problem with deal-making as long we also get something out of it. Serbia can take its Serbs if it recognizes Kosova. Like you said you can't have everything your own way. If you like what you propose then you have to give something up. I have no problems with any of the options if Serbia recognizes Kosova. Deal making under those conditions is not necessarily prohibited.

"By the way, I hope you are suitably miserable that the EU has finally accepted that the Kosovo issue is not solved after all. After all, this is what the Serbian-EU (and not Albanian-US) GA resolution basically says."


-- Actually I am quite happy and excited. My two week Caribbean vacation starts tomorrow. I'm a happy camper. It is stupid to be miserable over things that are not in your hand. You should consider that mantra and do away with your bitterns. None of the stuff you're writing about depends on you. Don't be bitter.

Aleks, I talked about historical documents that show the mistreatment of the Albanians by the Serbs. I don't know what Serbs you did meet and talked to, and in what time they left Kosovo.
I talked at first about the myth that K.Albanians forced Serbs out of the country in the 1980-ties. I met many K.Albanians who told me how the atmosphere was in that time, though still bearable compared to the time after 1989, when the real harassments started.
I didn't make any remark about how high your education might be. I only doubted the sources of historical information; if they are only Serbian of which I read some too, then it became clear to me how you can claim that the Serbs in Kosovo always were threatened by the Albanians.
Sorry, if you got the imagination of me being arrogant. I am a very critical part of the Western world, but I have the idea that every person representing a pro-Kosovo stance and living in the West by some of the Serbian contributors are seen as 'arrogant' anyway.

Two days ago we had 69 recognition today we have 71.
Meanwhile Serbia can count only on 50-55 countries that really support serbian side.
Everyone agrees that Kosovo issue is out of serbian's hands and Serbia is in better position if it understands this and cut the losses asap.This is the most pragmatic way to deal with the situation,which I can not see on serbian side.
Give albanians a deal with exchange territories and move on.The region is better off with an independent Kosovo.

Why these Americans and EUROcrats think that the Kosovo UDI is the solution? What they have done is pure land grab and they should return Kosovo to Serbia. Takenote there will be no real solution and peace as long as the WEST ignores Serbia.

What many Serbians have forgotten is that Kosovo achieved a state similar to BiH, a predominant sorting of ethnicities ... the former accomplished through war followed by the Dayton Accord and the latter by war and also blessed by the World Powers. When will the Serbs realize that they cannot have everything? Serbs in Bosnia acquired Republica Serpska, but now the Serbs in Serbia have to let go of Kosovo... for the Muslims. Everything in life has a price and it is now Serbia's time to pay for their past actions and instead focus on the future so that they can actually drag their country out of its third world economic state.

Why these Americans and EUROcrats think that the Kosovo UDI is the solution? What they have done is pure land grab and they should return Kosovo to Serbia. Takenote there will be no real solution and peace as long as the WEST ignores Serbia.
(PRO-SERBIA, 7 September 2010 12:54)

Your comment sounds as if Serbia is an important factor in the world. Please stop this euphoria. Serbia is just another little Balkan country (like other countries in the Bakans) which no major world factor will ever take very seriosly (also like other Balkan countries that do not taken seriously).

As far as peace in the Balkans goes, I do not think that Serbia (or any other Balkan country) will ever again have the capacity to dictate the peace.

"Things will not change in Kosovo and Serbia should respect that, he added."

I think he's right, Kosovo won't become an UN member and won't be recognized by some dozens of other states, and there will be no further improvement of the situation.

All part of an attempted blackmail to make Serbia fall in line and not cause a headache for the 'great masters' of the world.

How can anyone compare Serbia's moves through legitimate legal and political processes with anything negative from the past or present?

Good luck to Serbia at the UN - there are many countries who support Serbia's principled stance!

Good luck to Serbia at the UN - there are many countries who support Serbia's principled stance!
(kate, 7 September 2010 13:03)

... and there are a lot more who don't. Also,I would not go as far as to call it principled. More like stubborn.

"Whomever you are, go back to your desk job in your tiny cubicle and do whatever it is you do for fun. "
Daniel

Just because you dont't like the messanger of negative opinions those opinions will not change. This disillusionment with the curent Serbian leadership is not good for Serbia.

"I have what is know as a strong theory of mind; it probably comes from being a professor at the graduate level. Just because someone says something doesn't make it true. "
Daniel

You can be a professor at a graduate level and still have a so-called "closed mind" unwilling to recognize and face reality when it comes to Kosovo. And just because you were born and raised in the US as a Serbian American it does not garanty that you truly know the opinion of most unbiased Americans, who do not share your emotional link.

"The fact is that Tadic has done much to appease those whom want to take Kosovo without compromise."

Appeased some with more sophisticated tactics but even those people start to realise that his thinking is the same. And about "want to take Kosovo"? Isn't it already taken since Serbia has absolutely no control on it?

Intelligent people would understand why Serbia wants to negotiate and negotiate with no pre-conditions;

But why would the other side negociate when you could never give more than autonomy (with the risk of revoking it later)? The K-Albanians have already much more than what you could ever offer to them.

Here's the problem with what this idiot is saying. By the way, I'm sure happy that I am American because I can call another American an idiot; that's freedom of speech! At any rate, this mental midget says that Tadic is like nationalists because he refuses to capitulate to "some" Americans' demands. OK, as soon as someone doesn't let you have your way, they are all of the sudden nationalists? That is as idiotic an argument as I've ever heard. Whomever you are, go back to your desk job in your tiny cubicle and do whatever it is you do for fun. For my part, I'm happy Tadic isn't what you want him to be.

This is utterly ridiculous. What country would simply accept the diktats of another in this way? The US certainly wouldn't. To compare Tadic with nationalists is not only stupid, it is utterly insulting - to nationalists as much as moderates.

If this really is US thinking then it shows just how frustrated they really are in Washington with the current situation and just how out of touch they have become. This could all be solved if they were willing to pit some pressure on Pristina to negotiate seriously. But, for reasons that are completely beyond understanding, they won't do that.

In any case, Belgrade should not cave in to such bullying from Washington or from the EU. They created this mess over Kosovo and now they want Serbia to get them off the hook without offering a single thing in return. All they offer are threats. This is particularly shameful behavior by the EU. I thought it was more honorable than this.

I agree with Peggy...this is a pure nonsense! They are the best friends so far. Destroying a country, amputated a huge territory, threatening and yet not letting people to have their own opinion??? Real friends!!! I wish Serbians to stay their ground and have dignity! The west is hypocritical and the policy of carrot is the best they know to do. Don`t give up!

"Good morning, Mr. Wilson!
How long did it take to understand that Milosevic is NOT a "factor of stability" in the Balkans?"

It took long, yes. And one fine day, the US will find out that Thaci isn't a "factor of stability" neither (but the opposite).

Good morning, Mr. Wilson!
How long did it take to understand that Milosevic is NOT a "factor of stability" in the Balkans?

1. Top wrote:

""Things will not change in Kosovo and Serbia should respect that, he added."

I think he's right, Kosovo won't become an UN member and won't be recognized by some dozens of other states, and there will be no further improvement of the situation"
...


2. dht:

... through negotiations.

In addition, "KOSOVA" won´t become an EU member state,


The only prospering sector in "KOSOVA" is and will remain criminality (especially heroin export).

Pure propaganda...Tadic is still "our man" in Serbia..but is weak ..mainly for the economic situation so the Kosovo pill is hard to swallow for the Serbs...As i repeat it's a "cul de sac" because EU can't make promises of FAST TREK for accession and can't cancel the foreign debt of Serbia...

Exactly the same analysis could be made by the Serbian government on the US administration. We had hoped for a modification of position, we have seen little in that regard. In contrast Serbia has agreed to compromise.

But we complain about them, they complain about us. Where does that get us. Rather than complaining why not focus efforts on solving the issue at hand.

Besides I think it was highly unrealistic to expect a U turn from Serbia on Kosovo. Everybody who has an elemental knowledge of contemporary history would realise that such a U turn is highly unrealistic.

I don’t know if it is of a great importance to bring all these different opinions of analysts, even if he is a foreign policy adviser in Washington like Damon Wilson. In a way it is amusing to read the reactions of some of the readers:
“They created this mess over Kosovo and now they want Serbia to get them off the hook without offering a single thing in return”.
- My question: “Who created this mass over Kosovo?” Answer: “In the first place it was the officially elected president of ’Rest-Yugoslavia’, Milosevic”.

“Well, he is actually. Since he´s a product of US imperial designs of "regime change" in order to create vassals in strategic locations”, or “as for Tadic..., Tadic is a "westerner", so, trying to sell the story of him being a serb nationalist is just ridiculous. you should rather be good to him, because that´s the best ( most obedient ) president you can get in Serbia”, or “There is however a great deal of difference between Tadic and the nationalists”.
Others: “Like Jim, many here have voiced that comparing Tadic with nationalists is not only idiotic but insulting as well. I must join these voices. If Washington sees that there's no difference between Boris Tadić and Serbian nationalists she admits possessing an utterly ignorant view”, or “Possibly by announcing how suddenly the US is now of the opinion that Tadic is another nationalist to not be trusted. Is it working?”
My view: As well as Jeremic also Tadic could work together in a government lead by the Ultra-Nationalist Kostunica and share his international policy of denial of any negative role by Serbia in handling of the Kosovo crises. They both supported strongly Serbia’s change of their constitution in 2007 on which the EUROPEAN COMMISSION FOR DEMOCRACY THROUGH LAW published critically in Strasbourg on March 17:
“6. The text of the Preamble considers the Province of Kosovo and Metohija as an integral part of the territory of Serbia enjoying the status of substantial autonomy. As regards the future status of Kosovo, it is not up to the Venice Commission to interfere with the political process designed to determine Kosovo’s future status under Resolution 1244(1999) of the Security Council. As a member of the United Nations, Serbia will have to respect the respective decisions by the Security Council.

7. With respect to substantial autonomy, an examination of the Constitution, and more specifically of Part VII, makes it clear that this substantial autonomy of Kosovo is not at all guaranteed at the constitutional level, as the Constitution delegates almost every important aspect of this autonomy to the legislature. In Part I on Constitutional Principles, Article 12 deals with provincial autonomy and local self-government. It does so in a rather ambiguous way: on the one hand, in the first paragraph it provides that state power is limited by the right of citizens to provincial autonomy and local self-government, yet on the other hand it states that the right of citizens to provincial autonomy and local self-government shall be subject to supervision of constitutionality and legality. Hence it is clear that ordinary law can restrict the autonomy of the Provinces.

8. This possibility of restricting the autonomy of the Provinces by law is confirmed by almost every article of Part 7 of the Constitution, and more specifically by:

- Article 182, par. 2: “The substantial autonomy of the Autonomous Province of Kosovo and Methohija shall be regulated by the special law which shall be adopted in accordance with the process envisaged for amending the Constitution.”
- Article 183. par. 4: “The territory of autonomous provinces and the terms under which borders between autonomous provinces may be altered shall be regulated by the law …”
- Article 183, par. 2: “Autonomous provinces shall, in accordance with the law, regulate matters of provincial interest in the following fields …”
- Article 183, par. 3: “Autonomous provinces shall see to it that human and minority rights are respected, in accordance with the Law.”
- Article 183, par. 5: “Autonomous provinces shall manage the provincial assets in the manner stipulated by the Law.”
- Article 183, par. 6: “Autonomous provinces shall, in accordance with the Constitution and the Law, have direct revenues, …”
- Article 184, par. 1 to 3: “An autonomous province shall have direct revenues for financing its competences. The kind and amount of direct revenues shall be stipulated by the Law. The Law shall specify the share of autonomous provinces in the revenues of the Republic of Serbia.”

Hence, in contrast with what the preamble announces, the Constitution itself does not at all guarantee substantial autonomy to Kosovo, for it entirely depends on the willingness of the National Assembly of the Republic of Serbia whether self-government will be realised or not”.


This is the part of the action by the Serbian state that has hindered every further negotiation on the Kosovo-Status and lead incessantly to the UID of Kosovo. Tadic approved as President this construct and I am not sure, if he is strong enough and has enough support to correct this constitution. Serbia in the recent past did a lot to lay them-selves a lot of big rocks in their own way and for sure the one of Kosovo’s independence will appear to be too heavy to get it away the way they like, even not by dynamite and spring it.


“I think that friendship should be left for Albanians. Serbia can do without it”. It is cynical but in a way you are right! For friendship you need mutual trust and I think on both sides it is not existent. Serbian unilateral actions in connection with ‘asking the opinion of the ICJ’, ‘ no acceptance of the ICJ-judgment’, and ‘one-sided sent resolution to the UNGA’ didn’t strengthen the trust at the USA/EU side.

This has been known since 08, the problem is that if Tadic's, Nikolic's and their bureaucratic underlings lose credibility if they abandon the EU, the Hague sends Seselj back, then Seselj comes out the big political winner at Nikolic's & Tadic's expense being right all along. Thus continutes an EU charade that should've ended years ago.

On the other hand there is no difference between the current US administration and it's predecessors.

There is however a great deal of difference between Tadic and the nationalists.

Wilson should stop whinging and find a method whereby the US can make constructive progress on Kosovo. First they will have to take on board Serbia's valid and natural position on Kosovo.

There's no point in the US digging their heels in and stating that the situation in/on Kosovo cannot change - it has to !

Secondly Tadic is a democratically elected representative of Serbia so I think we can assume he speaks for the Serb majority. Wilson is mistaken in dismissing Tadic and suggesting that he knows what's best for Serbia.

"Joe - I am not sure what your issues are, but you really don't have a dog in this particular fight. You just sound like a rather bitter individual, for reasons that are not very clear."
Jim

Jim there is no reason for me to be a bitter individual, on the contrary. But I am a long time sympathyzer and supporter of the K-Albanians whose case is getting better and better. So I am very upbeat for them.

He thinks that U.S. Vice President Joseph Biden and others have extended a friendly hand to Serbia but that the resolution is a factor that is now complicating things
=======================

Bombing Serbia is sure extending a hand of friendship. Then we have Biden coming over and dictating how things are going to be and that's a sign of friendship too. Then they tell Serbia they will be isolated because they anger the Gods. Now that's pure friendship.

I think that friendship should be left for Albanians. Serbia can do without it.

“The draft resolution perpetuates and prolongs independence, which in my opinion isn’t contributing to the clarification of the situation regarding Kosovo,” he told Voice of America (VOA).
I don't think these people in Washington and Berlin get it. Kosovo is Serbia. Understand??
They engineered their man Tadic into power, and what they don't realize is that the Serbian constitution ensures that Kosovo is Serbia, and nobody can do anything about this. Nice try colonialists, but Kosovo is Serbia, deal with it!!

"Bombing Serbia is sure extending a hand of friendship. Then we have Biden coming over and dictating how things are going to be and that's a sign of friendship too. Then they tell Serbia they will be isolated because they anger the Gods. Now that's pure friendship.

I think that friendship should be left for Albanians. Serbia can do without it.
(Peggy"

Will you show us by the same examples of who is Serbias "true" friends than?

As i see it in paper and real life, the same people who support Kosovo feed over 90% of the Serbs inside and outside Serbia.

Why do you insist on bitting the hand that feeds you? Is Serbia being a better friend to the region or anybody else?

'Besides I think it was highly unrealistic to expect a U turn from Serbia on Kosovo. Everybody who has an elemental knowledge of contemporary history would realise that such a U turn is highly unrealistic.'

Based on preliminary reports from Blic, it looks like they made the turn anyway, unrealistic or not.

This will take some high-level spinning.

I can just see the U.S. ambassador at the UN during the meeting, editing on the fly the approval letter from the Albanians calling for unanimous acceptance of the new, revised resolution: cross out "shoved down their throats," read "came to a mutual agreement," for "the ICJ decision that says we're free, free, free!" read "the wise and measured decision of the ICJ," ... This is what we pay diplomats for, after all. Isn't it?

""hand extended to Belgrade could be withdrawn.""

What hand would that be? I haven't seen anything other than a hand that says give up your land written on it. USA and Brussels haven't really shown much. The Visa waiver was long overdue and earned, not 'extended'.
What exactly are they talking about?

"For my part, I'm happy Tadic isn't what you want him to be."

Well, he is actually. Since he´s a product of US imperial designs of "regime change" in order to create vassals in strategic locations, short of recognizing the US land grab in serbia, he is everything Wilson & Co could ever dream of next to his "brother" in Georgia, the two remaining colour coded regimes not rolled back to independence yet.

But i do hope that Tadic takes his masters words as a lesson in better obediance, make no mistake, he WANTS to recognize whatever they want him to but that will be political suicide for him and
the only way for serbia to get rid of the current loop of puppet regimes.

Like Jim, many here have voiced that comparing Tadic with nationalists is not only idiotic but insulting as well. I must join these voices. If Washington sees that there's no difference between Boris Tadić and Serbian nationalists she admits possessing an utterly ignorant view.

There's something badly wrong with Washington if she considers her latest actions and attitudes towards Serbia as friendly. What Washington does is very arrogant, not friendly. Washington may understand that they've given enough dollars to gain right to dictate. But it isn't to their choosing.

It is quite a common thing that USA's left hand doesn't (want to) know what the right one is up to. Therefore I would without a too big noise drop Mr. Wilson's analysis where it belongs: to garbage. I think Washington as a whole isn't as stupid as Mr. Wilson's words suggest. You naturally find there those who still are fighting against Serbia, and those who can't place the Balkans on map -because they never rotated their globe past the USA.

I believe Mr. Wilson speaks more that what he knows. After all, he's just trying to make his living.

Peggy and a few others here...
=========================

I don't understand how you find it impossible to imagine that two countries can be friendly today, but have been enemies before. Europe (EU) especially is a prime example of the new reality.

All it takes is a change in attitude and willingness to admit responsibility.

Also, despite the series of disagreements in the past few years, I don't remember Serbia being bombed while under Tadic or his predecessor.

I do remember Serbia being bombed when it was under Milosevic however.

Wrong, very, very wrong. It was the Albanians themselves who created this mess by ethnically cleansing Serbs from Kosovo for decades. They only stepped up this cleansing and murder (murdered policemen) in order to provoke a severe reacting from Serbia, which they got. Unfortunately Milosevic fell for this trap.

We have to go a lot further than 1999 in order to understand what happened.

Peggy, Aleks,

I don't know what kind of history lessons you have got at school. Maybe you and many others in your country (with exemptions) believe this myth. The history of Kosovo in the 20th Century is one of the cruelest in how acting (Serbian) masters mistreated their fellow-citizens the Albanians. It would take me too long to bring you all the sources to support it by the abundance of documents. Of course if you base your opinion only on Serbian sources you may come to this conclusion, though you'll find even opposite articles written by Serbian historians. It is your doctrine based on Serbian stories of the 1980-ties that brought to life this myth and Milosevic to power. It is a scam if a nation doesn't stand to his deeds and always points to others. I can tell you that just a few really believe that the Serbs are the victims in the case with Kosovo and even among your Russian 'friends' you'll find doubting opinions in relation to that.

I agree with exchange of territory this should give everyone something to feel happy about.

Albanians can get new Flag and Serbs can go on being happy with north Kosovo (but no more extra pay).

I dont think any one thinks that Serbia will get kosovo back without War (even though some Serbs from Diaspora mite want that) is not happening.

Joe, when the message is utterly wrong, I will chastise the messenger. He said nothing of essence. I am American born and raised and I know exactly how American people think. I have what is know as a strong theory of mind; it probably comes from being a professor at the graduate level. Just because someone says something doesn't make it true. This is what's known as magical thinking; great for Disney, but not so good for politics. To equate Tadic to the old guard in Serbia just because he doesn't agree with what SOME Americans believe is the truth (not the small t), is insane. The fact is that Tadic has done much to appease those whom want to take Kosovo without compromise. Intelligent people would understand why Serbia wants to negotiate and negotiate with no pre-conditions; as you all remember Rice kept on spouting that in the end Kosovo will be independent in the midst of the so-called negotiations with the contact group (or whatever the group was called). Those were not negotiations and they left the situation in a mess that will last perpetually. Tadic wants negotiations and some US officials don't. The only solution is one in the middle. That's some free lecturing from someone who teaches theory of mind for a living.

This is another dirty trick from Washington-by critisizing Tadic, an american poodle, the west thinks it will raise Tadics' approval among the majority of Serbs who oppose him.

The US administration has been and continues to be racist and discriminatory. It is prepared to support a negotiated settlement for the Israel Palestine impasse with talks arranged at the highest level. For Serbia and the Albanians the US has imposed its own solution and at worst was quiet happy to bomb Serbia. I hope that one day the Albanians and the Serbs will treat US policy in the Balkans with the contempt it deserves. So far their shoddy treatment of the peoples in the Balkans has delivered zero progress for both Serbs and Albanians. The Kosovo Albanians have a list of worthless recognitions and the Serbs some 15% of their territory amputated to host a US military camp. Fairly obvious who the beneficiary is!

Cees - no, the current mess was created by US intransigence, supported by key EU members.

The fact is that in every other conflict the west preaches reconciliation and the maintenance of borders: Iraq, Cyprus, Sri Lanka, Georgia, etc. You cannot for one moment tell me that the Kosovo Albanians suffered more than Kurds, Tamils, Turkish Cypriots or Abkhazians. And yet, Kosovo was 'allowed' independence by the west when these others are not. Why? Partly because some people in Washington have a grudge against Serbia. That much is clear. However, and more realistically, they got involved on a conflict they didn't truly understand. They saw it as black and white, when these things are usually very grey. By the time they had intervened and realized that the KAs are just as capable of brutality as the Serbs it was too late. Threats of violence by the KAs if they didn't get what they wanted meant that there was no choice but to support independence - even if it meant breaking international law and setting a dangerous precedent. (By the way, the ICJ did not say that Kosovo's statehhod is legal, and it is certainly not a unique case.)

No one denies what Milosevic did. However, the west created an almighty mess when it decided that it would treat Kosovo differently from countless other conflicts around the world and then expected everyone else, including Russia and China, to just fall into line and not allow them to apply the same rationale to their pet projects (such as Abkhazia and South Ossetia). That was just utter stupidity and arrogance.

Joe - I am not sure what your issues are, but you really don't have a dog in this particular fight. You just sound like a rather bitter individual, for reasons that are not very clear.

"YES on Serbia's resolution - You are NOT in the us pocket.
NO - You are feeding on the lint in the us pocket.
ABSTAIN - You are in denial about your life in the us pocket.
JohnBoy

You sound to be pretty desperate to come up with such ideas of 40 years ago when there was a fairly strong communist block and you were able to manipulate some so-called third-world countries against the US. Those "glorious" years, when you could do that are gone with the wind.

'It is clear to the most OBJECTIVE Americans that the Kosovo issue as it is presented by SOME Americans is BS. There is a story line that must not be violated.'

Strange! I've yet to see a poll that confirms what you're saying.
I don't know where you are getting this information.

what if the friendly hand the US-american regime could be withdrawn?

fine! there are others, who would happily reach out their hands towards Serbia, and that even farther than the US could possibly wish.
and I am certainly not only talking about China and Russia or Brasil and India.

so, these empty threats by a socalled "analyst" are really, really, really absolutely frightening...



the times of US-occupation are going to end, and with silly threats you won´t prevent that.


as for Tadic..., Tadic is a "westerner", so, trying to sell the story of him being a serb nationalist is just ridiculous.

you should rather be good to him, because that´s the best ( most obedient ) president you can get in Serbia.

but times will change, and you will lose.

If you don't agree with them, you're a nationalist, xenophobic, extremist individual. Communism = Capitalism = Globalisation

Fight on Serbia!

Inexadra - the simple answer is that Serbia is on the path to EU membership and things have changed in how we understand human and minority rights. This is not Yugoslavia and Tadic is not Milosevic. All sorts of international and constitutional guarantees could have been put in place to ensure that any agreement on autonomy was respected. No one seriously believes that a deal on autonomy would have been unilaterally revoked.

For example, you could ask exactly the same of the Turkish Cypriots. What is to say that any deal they reach with the Greek Cypriots will be respected; after all the Greek Cypriots tried to change the original constitution. And yet we refuse to accept their right to independence and insist that they must reach an agreement with the Greek Cypriots? Surely their concerns and mistrust of the Greek Cypriots is no less of the Kosovo Albanians regarding Serbs.

But this really was not the issue. The KAs didn't want to compromise and this issue of revoking autonomy was a convenient justification for intransigence backed by threats of violence, which the west, idiotically, gave in to. As I said before, the west is happy to push the line of reconciliation and respect for borders in all sorts of other situations where there have been past human rights abuses, but decided not to follow the same line in Kosovo. It was their mistake not to have given the situation far more consideration from the very start.
(Jim, 8 September 2010 08:16)

Jim your logic is flawed. The Turkish army is the guarantor of peace in this whole issue So it is this force of the Turkish army that defends the Turkish Cypriots and not your flowery insistence on agreement or some international or constitutional guarantees that would really guaranteed only be the Serbian army and nothing else. Well we had those very same things you mentioned, and we all know how it ended.

If things end up the way you envision them then the Serbs would have the teeth and the force of their army while the Kosova Albanians have nothing to guarantee them peace; you know in the same way the Turkish army guarantees the peace of the Turkish Cypriots. It is not as naively as you explain them. What would stop them from annulling these guarantees as they have done before? There would be no army to counteract them, no army to scare them of their moves and defend the rights of the Albanians. That is why there is an army now; and even with an army there they pass a constitution claiming Albanians as their subjects while they shamelessly remove them from the voters list for this constitution. Even an international NATO army and the fact that they were in the middle of a negotiating process didn't stop them from changing this constitional guarantees you're so fond of. KFOR acted in the same way as the Turkish army does for the Turkish Cypriots. . It balances things out. . That in the past and for now is achieved through KFOR; in the future through the army of Kosova and guaranteed by the recognition of sovereignty from the most advanced and industrialized countries.
P.S Considering that Serbia has no military option on the table, name me one difference between Tadic and Milosevic when it comes to Kosova. Nothing has changed with regards to human rights in Serbia. Just look at what is happening in Sandjak. Also everyone but the Serbs seriously believe that autonomy would be unilaterally revoked since the only guarantor of such autonomy and the Serb constitution would be the Serb army. Again we've had that before and we've seen how it ended. Again Serbia unilaterally declared Kosova Albanians as its subjects in the middle of a negotiating process with KFOR troops on the ground and while denying them the rights to vote for the very same continuation that declared them Serb subjects. Nothing has changed. Nothing will. Serbia will remain the same old Serbia it ever was.

Wait, you mean there was a time when people is Washington *didn't* associate someone in power in Serbia with the politics of Milosevic? That's pretty rich. I had always assumed that was the overly simplified way of looking at a part of the world that didn't follow our tune.

But isn't Serbia's unwillingness to cooperate a direct result of Washington's "agree to disagree" position given earlier? I mean if you don't expect Serbia to recognize Kosovo, you inherently allow Serbia to pursue strategies that run counter to your foreign policy. Now you get upset that things aren't going as smoothly as planned two years ago and you're threatening said country with repercussions?

No wonder my country is only capable of taking down governments instead of putting up ones.

This typically, arrogant opinion should be read aloud to the member nations of the General Assembly on Thursday. This is how washington regards foreign leaders: who is in their pocket and who isn't. Vuk should characterize the voting this way: YES on Serbia's resolution - You are NOT in the us pocket.
NO - You are feeding on the lint in the us pocket.
ABSTAIN - You are in denial about your life in the us pocket.

Here's the one question I have been seeking an answer to in my attempt to come to an opinion on this issue, which so far no one has been able or willing to actually answer:

Under Serbian sovereignty, Kosovo and its Albanian population would lack the legal protections afforded to sovereign states. Conversely, under a separate Kosovo, Kosovo Serbs would have good reason to worry about the same lack of protection. Now, if Kosovo remains under Serbian sovereignty, what reason would the Albanians have to trust the Serbian government as the more powerful entity in that arrangement? In other words, if the Serbian government (including all future governments), commanding a military of at least 40,000 (more?) is the more powerful entity in such an arrangement, what would guarantee that any autonomy afforded to the Albanians would not be revoked in the future? What would prevent, say, an attack on an Orthodox church or a Serbian neighborhood from provoking a violent response by the Serbian government against Kosovo?

It is a legitimate question, and one that I feel has never been answered satisfactorily. I would be interested to hear what you think

"The US administration has been and continues to be racist and discriminatory. It is prepared to support a negotiated settlement for the Israel Palestine impasse with talks arranged at the highest level. For Serbia and the Albanians the US has imposed its own solution and at worst was quiet happy to bomb Serbia."

-- Huge huge difference here. These talks are being held only after the other side agreed prior to sitting on the table that there will be two states after these negotiations are over. This is a huge difference. I don't see Serbia agreeing to anything like this. In case you've been deaf all this time, our side of the isle has been screaming for the last two years that negotiations such as those the US supports would be ok if Serbia abolishes its constitution and agrees to recognize Kosova prior to sitting. Nobody in Serbia has the guts to do that; nobody is legally allowed to do that. So don't complain. Mentality wise you're a few decades behind Israel. When you reach them then you can hope for US support of negotiations. Until then keep complaining.



"I hope that one day the Albanians and the Serbs will treat US policy in the Balkans with the contempt it deserves. So far their shoddy treatment of the peoples in the Balkans has delivered zero progress for both Serbs and Albanians."

-- Actually this is not true. As far as US policy is concerned it has always brought progress for the Albanian people and I say that as a proud Albanian-American. Albania today exists as a state only because of the US insistent policies. Kosova and the Albanian's living there today exists only because of US policies. Belive me it is way better than the 90's. The Ohrid agreement in Macedonia exists only because of US policies. It has been very beneficial for us. It has brought peace to all our people. Now its time to progress with their support.


"The Kosovo Albanians have a list of worthless recognitions and the Serbs some 15% of their territory amputated to host a US military camp. Fairly obvious who the beneficiary is!"


-- Actually every one of those recognitions are worth it. You know why? We are the beneficiaries of US policy. Just because you're bitter to them doesn't mean we should also. They say misery loves company but we ain't gonna be your company. Find it elsewhere.

Deb- Serbia has paid the price for anything it may have done and more. It is the others who have gotten away with murder, but not for ever.

Besides I think it was highly unrealistic to expect a U turn from Serbia on Kosovo. "Everybody who has an elemental knowledge of contemporary history would realise that such a U turn is highly unrealistic" (quote bgnon"

This is a very big part of the problem, Serbian history is not understood, much less respected, this battle is much older than the late 20th Century.

What internationals seem to think is that not even Tadic is a traitor to his country!
Looks like the americans are again trying to use propaganda against Serbia to make us look like the bad guy. America has stolen something very dear to Serbs, now that we want it back we are the guilty ones.
American democracy.

Hmmm, many here and probably in Serbia criticize Tadic because he is in the pockets of the EU and US, how best to combat that?
Possibly by announcing how suddenly the US is now of the opinion that Tadic is another nationalist to not be trusted. Is it working?

Joe, when the message is utterly wrong, I will chastise the messenger. He said nothing of essence. I am American born and raised and I know exactly how American people think. I have what is know as a strong theory of mind; it probably comes from being a professor at the graduate level. Just because someone says something doesn't make it true. This is what's known as magical thinking; great for Disney, but not so good for politics. To equate Tadic to the old guard in Serbia just because he doesn't agree with what SOME Americans believe is the truth (not the small t), is insane. The fact is that Tadic has done much to appease those whom want to take Kosovo without compromise. Intelligent people would understand why Serbia wants to negotiate and negotiate with no pre-conditions; as you all remember Rice kept on spouting that in the end Kosovo will be independent in the midst of the so-called negotiations with the contact group (or whatever the group was called). Those were not negotiations and they left the situation in a mess that will last perpetually. Tadic wants negotiations and some US officials don't. The only solution is one in the middle. That's some free lecturing from someone who teaches theory of mind for a living.
Daniel

- Daniel, William Ayeres is a university professor.
You could say he teaches theory of mind and is willing to provide free lectures for those who are willing to listen.

Anyway, just like you said, just because you say something it doesn't mean it's true.

He thinks that U.S. Vice President Joseph Biden and others have extended a friendly hand to Serbia but that the resolution is a factor that is now complicating things.

I think you will find that the US led bombing of Belgrade hardly constitutes a friendly hand and the fact that Serbia is even talking to the US now is, in my opinion, a miracle of diplomacy and pragmatism. It is about time that the promise of the EU integration being seperate from the Kosovo issue was honoured. Labelling Tadic as a Nationalist is just absurd, unless of course being a Nationalist means looking after the national interest of your own country. If that is the definition then Obahma can be described in the same way. Come on everyone, lets apply a little more common sense to this situation. Serbia is protecting her land in the same way that any other nation on earth would do in the same circumstances. She is protecting it in an honest, diplomatic and peacefully pragmatic way. The last thing she needs is a bunch of heavy handed hypocrites threatening and blackmailing her. Just do as she has been requesting all this time and get everyone around a table talking. Surely, the best way forward is to talk?

"Strange! I've yet to see a poll that confirms what you're saying.
I don't know where you are getting this information.
(kb, 8 September 2010 14:15) "

Ditto.

Besides, isn't this just a cheap propaganda trick, claiming that "everybody" thinks something, so it must be true? For some people, it's a powerful argument, of course. Don't you cover that in your "theory of mind" lectures, Daniel?

My best guess is that only a vanishingly small percentage of Americans remember anything at all about the war in Kosovo - many things have happened here since then. Most of the those who are aware of the issues have a personal connection to the country, it seems from the posts here, and therefore can be expected to be biased. The rest of them (except me, unfortunately) apparently are employed by some Washington think-tank and interpret Balkan affairs through ideological glasses. I'm not saying I don't have biases myself, but they stem from my understanding of my own country's history and values and a prejudice in favor of these values. Other Americans may interpret these and the facts differently, but the point is that - based on my own observations, trying to get casual discussions of the news going - almost nobody is aware of them. Hence my hanging out here.

To Johny re: 'Huge huge difference here. These talks are being held only after the other side agreed prior to sitting on the table that there will be two states after these negotiations are over. '
The two sides do have their own states Serbia and Albania.

"Based on preliminary reports from Blic, it looks like they made the turn anyway, unrealistic or not." (Amer)

-- Well they don't call it "Blic" for nothing. They seem to report on things before they can be verified. The whole "Belgrade and Pristina are secretly talking about a land swap" story was enough to raise eyebrows but never (unfortunately) came to light.

If an agreement is actually reached between Belgrade and Brussels, well first, great! But I'd be curious to see what they agreed on beyond changing the wording of the resolution around. Particularly how stances are harmonized over whether Kosovo gets a different color from Serbia on the map.

The Serbian part of B92 only says thus far that Tadic and Ashton met, talked, and agreed to more talks.

Wonderful. Nothing definitive.

- My question: “Who created this mass over Kosovo?” Answer: “In the first place it was the officially elected president of ’Rest-Yugoslavia’, Milosevic”.
=======================

Wrong, very, very wrong. It was the Albanians themselves who created this mess by ethnically cleansing Serbs from Kosovo for decades. They only stepped up this cleansing and murder (murdered policemen) in order to provoke a severe reacting from Serbia, which they got. Unfortunately Milosevic fell for this trap.

We have to go a lot further than 1999 in order to understand what happened.

Why do you insist on bitting the hand that feeds you? Is Serbia being a better friend to the region or anybody else?
(prrru, 7 September 2010 17:00)
=======================

Nobody feeds Serbia. Serbia is quite capable of looking after herself. If you are talking about trade then say so but trade is not feeding anyone. It's business.

Imagine, an Albanian talking about someone being fed and then biting that hand. Kosovo is the only charity case there.
If you want to detract from yourself, you attack. Doesn't work I'm afraid. We the world are smarter than that.

- My question: “Who created this mass over Kosovo?” Answer: “In the first place it was the officially elected president of ’Rest-Yugoslavia’, Milosevic”.


My question is: "Who is it who ignores the situation in Kosovo before Milosevic?"

"No one will beat you" - Now what was that all about then?

What of the demonstrations in Pristina in 1982 and calls for independence then or the rampant discrimination against non-albanians through the 70s to the 80s that forced them to leave?

Still, why bother even mentioning albanian responsibility for anything? I suppose it is not politically correct.

Inexadra - the simple answer is that Serbia is on the path to EU membership and things have changed in how we understand human and minority rights. This is not Yugoslavia and Tadic is not Milosevic. All sorts of international and constitutional guarantees could have been put in place to ensure that any agreement on autonomy was respected. No one seriously believes that a deal on autonomy would have been unilaterally revoked.

For example, you could ask exactly the same of the Turkish Cypriots. What is to say that any deal they reach with the Greek Cypriots will be respected; after all the Greek Cypriots tried to change the original constitution. And yet we refuse to accept their right to independence and insist that they must reach an agreement with the Greek Cypriots? Surely their concerns and mistrust of the Greek Cypriots is no less of the Kosovo Albanians regarding Serbs.

But this really was not the issue. The KAs didn't want to compromise and this issue of revoking autonomy was a convenient justification for intransigence backed by threats of violence, which the west, idiotically, gave in to. As I said before, the west is happy to push the line of reconciliation and respect for borders in all sorts of other situations where there have been past human rights abuses, but decided not to follow the same line in Kosovo. It was their mistake not to have given the situation far more consideration from the very start.

These are not 'stories' Cees. I have met many people who were forced or intimidated in to leaving Kosovo.

But well done though. I see you seem it fit to descend to using personal slurs and make up what you think other people think as long as it furthers your own beliefs.

Would you mind not putting words in to other people's mouths or is that considered acceptable where you live?

Everyone who has any real interest in the region knows there have long been problems in the region so I don't appreciate you questioning my education (a very cheap and low shot) as you know absolutely nothing about me. I can play the same game if you want but why should I feed your arrogance and bad manners? You really leave a bad taste in the mouth and an extremely poor impression.

"Johny - and once again you prove so perfectly why Kosovo is still so very far off meeting the essential values of reconciliation and tolerance that would make a deal possible. By the way, I trust you will have no problems when Serbia takes formal responsibility for protecting the Serbs in northern Kosovo. Can't have everything your own way. "


-- Jim, you state a few things here claiming them to be absolute truths. Yet you fail to explain why are they absolute truths.

Also I have no problem with deal-making as long we also get something out of it. Serbia can take its Serbs if it recognizes Kosova. Like you said you can't have everything your own way. If you like what you propose then you have to give something up. I have no problems with any of the options if Serbia recognizes Kosova. Deal making under those conditions is not necessarily prohibited.

"By the way, I hope you are suitably miserable that the EU has finally accepted that the Kosovo issue is not solved after all. After all, this is what the Serbian-EU (and not Albanian-US) GA resolution basically says."


-- Actually I am quite happy and excited. My two week Caribbean vacation starts tomorrow. I'm a happy camper. It is stupid to be miserable over things that are not in your hand. You should consider that mantra and do away with your bitterns. None of the stuff you're writing about depends on you. Don't be bitter.

Joe, have you ever considered the possibility that the Americans who are against Serbia and Pro-Albanian Kosovo are biased too. Just because my mother was Serbian doesn't mean I go for everything that Serbia does. I did not support Milosevic at all ever. I didn't like it in the old days when Serbs and other Jugoslavs would have pictures of Tito on their walls as if here were a deity. Truth is the only answer. I seek the truth. It is clear to the most OBJECTIVE Americans that the Kosovo issue as it is presented by SOME Americans is BS. There is a story line that must not be violated. However, once one digs deeper into the story, one uncovers the poor plot. The plot states that Serbs would get rid of all Albanians if they could. The reality is different. The reality states that during the Milosevic era, one leader (Milosevic) was power hungry and did anything to cling to power. Reality also states that Serbs overthrew him peacefully. The new government is very pro-Western. It just has one stipulation in its pro-Western Stance; leave Kosovo alone unless we negotiate in a realistic fashion that is fair to everyone. Yes, Serbs offered no more than autonomy. Why should they have offered more? Albanians refused it. OK, that's how negotiations work. Eventually something is found in the middle. Now, instead we get a stalemate that will persist and persist.

Johny - and once again you prove so perfectly why Kosovo is still so very far off meeting the essential values of reconciliation and tolerance that would make a deal possible. By the way, I trust you will have no problems when Serbia takes formal responsibility for protecting the Serbs in northern Kosovo. Can't have everything your own way.

By the way, I hope you are suitably miserable that the EU has finally accepted that the Kosovo issue is not solved after all. After all, this is what the Serbian-EU (and not Albanian-US) GA resolution basically says.

KB, I have yet to see a poll that shows that Objective Americans (or Americans in general regardless of objectivity) support Kosovo's UDI either. I agree with what Amer said; they probably couldn't give a darn about it and in fact I doubt more than a small percentage even know what Kosovo is.

Amer, being a professor is a special responsibility. In my work, I'm interested in keeping people from behaving in ways that jeopardizes their health. Having a strong theory of mind helps prevent individuals from falling prey to false truths, such as second hand smoke is not harmful. One pitfall though, theory of mind doesn't always mean good outcomes. Many crooks and bullies have strong theories of mind; it allows them to manipulate others. If you want to know the truth, it's not helpful unless it's balanced by empathy.

Inexadra - the simple answer is that Serbia is on the path to EU membership and things have changed in how we understand human and minority rights. This is not Yugoslavia and Tadic is not Milosevic. All sorts of international and constitutional guarantees could have been put in place to ensure that any agreement on autonomy was respected. No one seriously believes that a deal on autonomy would have been unilaterally revoked.

But this really was not the issue. The KAs didn't want to compromise and this issue of revoking autonomy was a convenient justification for intransigence backed by threats of violence, which the west, idiotically, gave in to. As I said before, the west is happy to push the line of reconciliation and respect for borders in all sorts of other situations where there have been past human rights abuses, but decided not to follow the same line in Kosovo. It was their mistake not to have given the situation far more consideration from the very start.
(Jim, 8 September 2010 08:16)

Oh man, you are way off here. There is no reasonable cause, and in fact there is none in their right mind that believes a Kosovo Albanian autonomy will be a stable and sustainable status in the future.

If you only take a slight look into history and past precedents, you will see that there is no substance to that claim whatsoever, it is really a mere wishful thinking, especially after the war of 1999.

KAs didn't want a compromise, cause they know through life experience that this compromise would be a great gamble for them and the future of their children.

KAs acted on the most basic concept of self-preservation. How many times would you want to see Serb armies expelling and killing KAs to be convinced that a co-existence within one state of these two people is simply not an achiavable reality... I mean really is there a limit, or a breaking point that KAs have not suffered yet, and that will make this autonomy deal not realistic?

Aleks, I talked about historical documents that show the mistreatment of the Albanians by the Serbs. I don't know what Serbs you did meet and talked to, and in what time they left Kosovo.
I talked at first about the myth that K.Albanians forced Serbs out of the country in the 1980-ties. I met many K.Albanians who told me how the atmosphere was in that time, though still bearable compared to the time after 1989, when the real harassments started.
I didn't make any remark about how high your education might be. I only doubted the sources of historical information; if they are only Serbian of which I read some too, then it became clear to me how you can claim that the Serbs in Kosovo always were threatened by the Albanians.
Sorry, if you got the imagination of me being arrogant. I am a very critical part of the Western world, but I have the idea that every person representing a pro-Kosovo stance and living in the West by some of the Serbian contributors are seen as 'arrogant' anyway.