"Battle for every UNGA vote"

All of Vuk's hard work has already paid off and will continue to do so. His energy and diligence in securing support is just incredible.

Namibia's position on Kosovo is clear, firm, and won't change. Namibia has not recognized Kosovo, nor will it ever do so," said he

Here we go again,Vuk speaking on behalf of another country.

All of Vuk's hard work has already paid off and will continue to do so. His energy and diligence in securing support is just incredible.
(kate, 3 September 2010 11:32)

Kate, I am not trying to sound sarcastic but you are either mocking Mr Jeremic or you know something the rest of the world doesn't.

He has not managed to secure anything so far and will not be able to continue for much longer in his efforts to stop the inevitable. Not just Mr Jeremic but no Serbian leader will ever be able to do anything (about Kosovo). He is just spending taxpayers hard earned money for nonsense trips around the world.

Serbia's place is in the EU (as is for all Westerns Balkans countries), so I think it is about time Serbian leaders (Mr Jeremic included) start working towards that goal by forging new and better relationships with EU rather then chasing shadows around UN.

Good bless ...

I really love it when Vuk goes on one of his trips and then makes statements like this.
Usually something good happens.

Good bless ...

I see the Albanian kids here are trying to have fun with Vuk again. May I ask you a question please, what has your FM done, not the EU's and US diplomats, but your FM? NOTHING, ZERO! Now show some respect for a hard working minister, and get back to work, if you have jobs?

That's great Vuk.

And if Serbia wins (or looses) in the General Assembly, then what?

Then nothing, that's what.

I think that the most important question at the moment is: "What the hell kind of policy is this government conducting?" President Tadic travels through Europe by contacting governments and Brussels Ashton, looking for solutions to ward off the damaging effect of a hastily sent resolution to UNGA; on the other side of the world his FM is visiting countries to find support for a resolution which at the end not might be the one he was fighting for.
If there is a clear message everyone can conclude out of this: This government has no idea anymore how to combine the two slogans on which they were elected, promising as well to preserve the sovereignty of the country by keeping Kosovo between its borders as to become a member of the EU.
Political experts show that it won’t make a difference if the Serbian resolution will be adopted on September 9; it will not change the existing situation. So Vuk Jeremic remains fighting in Africa for what? Maybe he is eager to hear every day that the countries he is visiting has the opinion that Serbia is very important and belongs to the leading countries on the Balkans. Hearing this gives him the hyper-feeling representing this country on a high level which makes him to an eligible president of the Serbian state. Is he really fighting for a personal higher duty under the mask of being only underway in state-affair on the cost of tax-payers money?

@ SiriusBlack,

I completely agree! Serbia has wasted far too much time on a battle that will not yield the desired results.

Serbia has far too many internal issues to deal with, with a devastated economy after the 1990s wars, organised crime and corruption.

By all means, Kosovo should be in their agenda, but it really is not fair playing around with the taxpayer's money.

For Kosovo it's a different question. They need to be focusing even more diligently in the recognition process. But they should realise that the bottom line is: Serbia should give their consent to recognition too. Which brings us to negotiations and mutual recognition.

What was that joke they used to tell about partizans in "yougoslavia"? Ah yes two a partzan saving his comrades life by yelling 'watch out, bullet". The serb diplomacy is doing the same thing, first they claim a huge success for Kosova without any merit to suchclaims and the next day they go on celebrating how they averted it with hard work. Predictable? Maybe not in serbia.

"I really love it when Vuk goes on one of his trips and then makes statements like this." (SiriusBlack)

-- Yes, I love it too. Vuk usually secures a number of provisions for a country that was expected to roll over and die years ago.

Might I inquire when the last time Hysterical Skender said/did anything worthwhile? How many recognitions were expected after ICJ? 35? Now we're down to "about a dozen"?

Well you got Honduras today so it's not a shut out. But something tells me Hysterical had little input garnering that one.

Might I inquire when the last time Hysterical Skender said/did anything worthwhile? How many recognitions were expected after ICJ? 35? Now we're down to "about a dozen"?

Well you got Honduras today so it's not a shut out. But something tells me Hysterical had little input garnering that one.
(Mike, 3 September 2010 22:36)


Actually it was 55 according to Jeremic. Also Hyseni is not wasting time and money on things that Serbia should have died and rolled over a long time ago. However, I am enjoying this.

Here we go again,Vuk speaking on behalf of another country.
(Kosova-USA, 3 September 2010 11:18)
=================

And here we go, you shooting your mouth off without knowing all the facts.
Ever stopped to consider that perhaps Vuk has permission from all these countries to make those statements? They might've said something to him to be able to speak the way he does.
I guess you haven't considered this. You want to hear it straight from the horse's mouth. Go ask them then. I am sure they will say exactly the same thing if someone cares to interview them about it. I guess most of the world takes Vuk's word for this so they don't bother, but perhaps "New Kosova Report" can interview these people just to clar this up with you.

The problem with such victories is that they have to be constantly re-won. When Kosovo gains a new recognition - say no. 71, whoever that will be - it's a done deal. But Jeremic, or his successor, will have to go back to Namibia and Lesotho etc. every time Serbia makes a new political move to regain their support. One hope for the taxpayers of the country - the number of "etc."'s keeps declining, steadily cutting the future travel budget.

Thank you very much Honduras.
My next holiday is in Honduras.

"Military rule, corruption, a huge wealth gap, crime and natural disasters have rendered Honduras one of the least developed and least secure countries in Central America."
[link]
(Roger7, 4 September 2010 14:57)

Sounds exactly like Serbia for 60 straight years until the early 2000's. While the corruption, huge wealth gap, crime and the rest still apply to Serbia.

Mike two things.

1. Serbia is out of the EU as long as it thinks it can impose its will on the EU big shots. Slovakia can't do anything to get you in if the French, German, and Brits are telling you that you will remain outside.

2. Jeremic has no merits whatsoever. The merits fall all with the Russians. It is their political capital and their monetary and military capital that has wide influence. Serbia on its own can do less than San Marino can do considering its tarnished reputation. As someone from the Serb camp the least you can do is not be so short-sighted and be thankful to the Russians. Jeremic's only merit is to be confrontational with the West and that is a merit if you're one of those types that sees the West as evil and their ultimate enemy.

As for time and waiting it out that someone mentioned here. Time proved to be on our side when we were under the occupation of Serb military forces. Let alone now when we have the backing of the West and the most advanced countries of the world. You're greatly mistaken if you think we're sleeping on the wheel and that some future KFOR retreat will find us unprepared. This time around we're very prepared. I hope you get the gist of my post. If you're thinking in that wavelength lets just say that that would prove to be very costly for Serbia.

"The problem with such victories is that they have to be constantly re-won. When Kosovo gains a new recognition - say no. 71, whoever that will be - it's a done deal." (Amer)

-- But eventually you know as well as I that that will reach an end point sooner or later as all the potentual fence sitters fall on one side or another. And to be fair, Kosovo has failed to gain any reversal in policy from at least 10 key countries, 5 of which are in the EU. Now we don't really know how many countries are adamantly against Kosovo's supervised statehood (certainly around 30 but maybe more), but we do know that a number of countries are critical for getting Kosovo into international institutions like the UN and the EU, and both avenues are blocked unless a final compromise is reached with Belgrade.

Jeremic has to take a considerable amount of credit for providing that diplomatic obstacle. Conversely, Pristina has to take a considerable amount of blame for failing to address this.

Hey Rocky,
Before you spend money to vacation in Honduras, you need to educate yourself about the place.

"Military rule, corruption, a huge wealth gap, crime and natural disasters have rendered Honduras one of the least developed and least secure countries in Central America."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/country_profiles/1225416.stm

(Mike, 4 September 2010 06:01) - you're confusing process with progress. Serbia has been fighting a stubborn retreat, but it's a retreat all the same, since - no matter how slowly - Kosovo keeps gathering those UN votes while at the same time improving conditions at home. (It took South Korea 40+ years, so what if it's slow.)

As for the future, I'd be a little nervous about China's commitment if I were Jeremic. Albania is stepping up its efforts on Kosovo's behalf (their FM is recently back from Central America, for instance), and some high mucky-muck from China is making a 3-day trip to Albania where the only specific item discussed that has been mentioned is Kosovo. (Maybe he just needs time to recover from jet-lag?) Could be he's just taking a long time to say "forget it" to a country with which China shares a "traditional friendship," I suppose. Still, China and Albania are 1.3+ billion strong. And China is doing a heck of a lot of business nowadays in Africa with all those UN votes. The Albanians may be planning to buy wholesale rather than rent retail.

Amer, two things:

1. I wouldn't get too giddy about China. Focus on the smaller countries that are within Meta's grasp. Beijing is not one of them.

2. If it does take Kosovo 40+ years to get on its feet, I think it's safe to say the Serb areas will also utilize that time to develop on their own and apart from Pristina. Kosovo may not even exist in the same manner in 40+ years.

'The Serbs have the time, or more precisely more time than their enemies. It is only natural that they should play it out to their full advantage.
(Aleks, 4 September 2010 04:35) '

How do you figure the Serbs can afford to wait any better than their "enemies" - who, the Kosovars? the U.S.? Nato?

It's the Serbian politicians who are threatening to go to the streets, and this is only over a non-binding resolution. Sounds to me like this is the impatient side. Meanwhile, Serbian non-politicians are facing food shortages, gas hikes (the price is 28% higher than last year, whether they pay it as consumers or as taxpayers), and a level of production that doesn't support higher wages. And this is just from stories in today's B92. How much longer will supporting Kosovo seem worth the effort?

Kosovo is hardly a raging economic success at the moment, either, of course - there aren't many anywhere, these days - but things are generally, slowly, improving, making the wait for final resolution easier.

And then there's the demographics: every year there are more Albanians and fewer Serbs, and - based on the number of babies that have been born in recent years, this simply isn't going to change in the foreseeable future (20-30 years). The "demographic window" of opportunity is opening for the Albanians, those years in the life of a society when, thanks to a decline in the fertility rate, there are finally more working-age people than children and elderly to be supported. These fewer children can be healthier, receive better educations, and become more productive as adults. In every other country - Ireland and Asia come to mind - this has been when they have startled the world by coming on as economic tigers. But look at picture for Serbia ( http://www.nationmaster.com/country/yi-serbia-and-montenegro/Age-_distribution ) and see how the base is narrowing - there will be a declining proportion of workers (and military-age persons), and an increasing proportion of elderly to be supported, reducing budgets for investment, research, education. This is the picture of struggling, not a thriving, economy. Diplomatic struggles to protect Kosovo, not to mention tax money to support Kosovo, are going to be increasingly questioned.

And if you meant that the U.S. and Europe would soon withdraw and leave Kosovo vulnerable, the U.S. is still - after decades - supporting Israel, and So. Korea, the UK is still keeping an eye on No. Ireland. Sure, we'll be happy to leave Iraq and Afghanistan, but both countries have made it clear they want us to go. (Iraq may be having second thoughts about the date, admittedly.) So don't get your hopes up about Kosovo suddenly being abandoned and left conveniently open to attack.

Seriously - time is not on Serbia's side. It would be better to write off Kosovo now and get to work on Serbia's real problems. The EU and the US are ready to help.

"1. I wouldn't get too giddy about China. Focus on the smaller countries that are within Meta's grasp. Beijing is not one of them.

2. If it does take Kosovo 40+ years to get on its feet, I think it's safe to say the Serb areas will also utilize that time to develop on their own and apart from Pristina. Kosovo may not even exist in the same manner in 40+ years.
(Mike, 4 September 2010 19:40) "

1. I'm probably the least giddy person here, but anyway, the Chinese were talking to Topi (and maybe Berisha? - the info was scattered over a number of articles, I can't quite remember), in any case, not Meta. If China wants to be a major power, and not just manufacturer to the world, it has to show it can play a constructive role outside its own neighborhood. I'm not saying that's what's behind this trip - maybe they're just interested in the new container port, or iron ore - but look at the positions held by the official who came (I think it was a delegation, but only one guy was named.) After the Chinese judge went home "sick" from the ICJ proceeding without voting or writing an opinion, you have to wonder what their take on the situation is these days. This one whale would bring a number of little fish along with it.

2. Still dreaming of a diesel generator in every pot, eh? Looking at the average age of the Serb population in Kosovo (58, the last time I saw a figure), and the declining birthrate even in Serbia itself, it's hard to see much growth in the Serbian-majority areas of Kosovo. It's not that the population will die out, but that the most energetic young people will see no future cut off in a small town, and either join the national economy or move to Serbia or emigrate entirely. In 40 years' time it seems more likely these areas will be picturesque stops on the tourist trail than thriving centers of Serbian life.

This time around we're very prepared. I hope you get the gist of my post. If you're thinking in that wavelength lets just say that that would prove to be very costly for Serbia.
(johny, 4 September 2010 20:04)
=====================
So what's changed? How prepared are you?
Oh wait, you think you can summon NATO again. Is that what you mean by prepared?

I don't see anything changing in Kosovo for Albanians to be in any position of strength or even in Albania. Unless you are counting on NATO you have nothing. Actually things have changed for the worse instead of better for you. You see, NATO would be a lot more reserved in attacking again so you have eve less muscle.

As far as you thinking that your birth rate is going to impress the Chinese and somehow you guys are going to become their right hand, forget it. A high birth rate does NOT impress the Chinese at all. They proved that by limiting their own. The only thing the Chinese will want with Albania is to peddle some surplus goods made there. I suppose this is the only time a high birth rate is going to be desirable. Cheap toys.

Cees,

How do you think Bg could have handled these inherienet contradictions in a 'better' way? It was a mess to begin with (not of Serbia's choosing I might add) and despite the action of the world's most powerful democracies (body count since 1989?), it is still a mess.

Serbia really has nothing to loose by not changing the draft. They are not going to join the EU soon, realistically it would be disastrous on many levles for major EU countries to roll-back SAA ratification (as if this was ever realistic) or put it on hold indefinitely (ergo much worse for the albos where time and patience is running out). The Serbs have the time, or more precisely more time than their enemies. It is only natural that they should play it out to their full advantage.
(Aleks, 4 September 2010 04:35)

Aleks,
I’m not sure that I understand your question properly. If you are dealing with the contradiction of handling between the President and the FM, the answer would be clear: there should be a better communication between the two; but I think that you are asking about the two keys of the government’s policy; Kosovo and EU. I think for this government there are no contradictions, and that both are attainable. The problem lies indeed on the side of the other players. We are on the field of international politics of which Serbia is aware. Until the nine-ties countries could act within their borders without being watched over by other states or the UN. Atrocities, elimination or expulsion of ‘others’ came under the watchful eyes of non-involved nations during the events in Ruanda and on the Balkans.
- What body-count since 1989 do you mean: political or dead bodies? If you mean dead-bodies just read the “Memorandum of 1986 and you’ll find an example of before 1989 on this case –
Undeniable is that Serbia was and is a part of the dissolution of Yugoslavia, which took so many lives that the international community couldn’t look away and started, partly reluctantly, to get involved. If they did it on a successful way is to be discussed. After things are done we normally might be smarter. The texts of Dayton or Resolution 1244 could have been different. What all this has to do with the situation we are dealing with at the moment, we can conclude out of the involvement of all the players who already were actors during the Balkan wars. Significantly you call them ‘enemies’, because you think that they only act against Serbia’s interest. In this way of thinking you are right in saying that ‘the Serbs have the time’, because they are against having a seat amongst their enemies, which are de facto for you the EU and the ‘most powerful countries’ incl. the US.
I am not sure that this is the stance of your government (or the Serbian majority). I think that they would like to join the EU as soon as possible, by all means before the next elections to having a bonus for being reelected. I think that it will be impossible for this government to reach both goals: Kosovo and EU. We see the last struggle to keep both options open, but now is the time they have to make a choice, what they finally want. By changing the Serbian constitution in 2007, in which Kosovo was declared an indivisible part of Serbia, this government will have a big difficulty to accept Kosovo’s independence. I don’t think that they could find enough support to change the constitution again. At the end I think that Serbia’s ambitions to being a part of the European family will cool off and it should try to manage their economical difficulties on another way, which will be almost impossible, if all the other surrounding countries once will be a part of the EU. Kosovo will get some more support to achieve European standards, which they need without any question. Of course: goal of the EU is to get all countries of the Balkans aboard, and that in the future like in Western-Europe it would be possible again to drive through the region without nasty border-controls. In this philosophy and policy the status of the region is secondary. It is a bit of Tito’s landscape in which Kosovo was an autonomous province with the rights of a republic in which time Kosovo Albanians were bringing twice the head of the Yugoslavian state. It is up to this government, as you say: “to play it out to their full advantage”.

Cees makes a very good point but Serbia is not selling washing liquid here.

The problem is that Serbia is in a very complex situation.

Bg's strategy is to at least appear so close to Brussels that any apparent threat/sanction will damage the gov in Bg and thus a risk a non-Bxl friendly gov in Bg. It is far more nuanced than the ICJ game where they need to emphasize the 'what-if's' of the messy ICJ judgement (i.e. how stuff works in reality, not on paper).

As for Vuk, he's no dodo and know it is a thankless task but not doing all this shuttle diplomacy = accepting the western powers diktat through passivity/electoral suicide.

Cees,

How do you think Bg could have handled these inherienet contradictions in a 'better' way? It was a mess to begin with (not of Serbia's choosing I might add) and despite the action of the world's most powerful democracies (body count since 1989?), it is still a mess.

Serbia really has nothing to loose by not changing the draft. They are not going to join the EU soon, realistically it would be disastrous on many levles for major EU countries to roll-back SAA ratification (as if this was ever realistic) or put it on hold indefinitely (ergo much worse for the albos where time and patience is running out). The Serbs have the time, or more precisely more time than their enemies. It is only natural that they should play it out to their full advantage.

Here we go again,Vuk speaking on behalf of another country.
(Kosova-USA, 3 September 2010 11:18)
===…==

And here we go, you shooting your mouth off without knowing all the facts.
Ever stopped to consider that perhaps Vuk has permission from all these countries to make those statements? They might've said something to him to be able to speak the way he does.
I guess you haven't considered this. You want to hear it straight from the horse's mouth. Go ask them then. I am sure they will say exactly the same thing if someone cares to interview them about it. I guess most of the world takes Vuk's word for this so they don't bother, but perhaps "New Kosova Report" can interview these people just to clar this up with you.
Peggy

Peggy, are you suggesting that these countries have given the Serb FM permission to discuss foreign policy on their behalf?

Did you ever stop and think how your comment sounds?

What next? Can we soon expect Vuk to speak on behalf of Russia, China, Spain, etc.

Namibia's position on Kosovo is clear, firm, and won't change. Namibia has not recognized Kosovo, nor will it ever do so," said he

Here we go again,Vuk speaking on behalf of another country.

All of Vuk's hard work has already paid off and will continue to do so. His energy and diligence in securing support is just incredible.

All of Vuk's hard work has already paid off and will continue to do so. His energy and diligence in securing support is just incredible.
(kate, 3 September 2010 11:32)

Kate, I am not trying to sound sarcastic but you are either mocking Mr Jeremic or you know something the rest of the world doesn't.

He has not managed to secure anything so far and will not be able to continue for much longer in his efforts to stop the inevitable. Not just Mr Jeremic but no Serbian leader will ever be able to do anything (about Kosovo). He is just spending taxpayers hard earned money for nonsense trips around the world.

Serbia's place is in the EU (as is for all Westerns Balkans countries), so I think it is about time Serbian leaders (Mr Jeremic included) start working towards that goal by forging new and better relationships with EU rather then chasing shadows around UN.

Good bless ...

That's great Vuk.

And if Serbia wins (or looses) in the General Assembly, then what?

Then nothing, that's what.

I really love it when Vuk goes on one of his trips and then makes statements like this.
Usually something good happens.

Good bless ...

@ SiriusBlack,

I completely agree! Serbia has wasted far too much time on a battle that will not yield the desired results.

Serbia has far too many internal issues to deal with, with a devastated economy after the 1990s wars, organised crime and corruption.

By all means, Kosovo should be in their agenda, but it really is not fair playing around with the taxpayer's money.

For Kosovo it's a different question. They need to be focusing even more diligently in the recognition process. But they should realise that the bottom line is: Serbia should give their consent to recognition too. Which brings us to negotiations and mutual recognition.

What was that joke they used to tell about partizans in "yougoslavia"? Ah yes two a partzan saving his comrades life by yelling 'watch out, bullet". The serb diplomacy is doing the same thing, first they claim a huge success for Kosova without any merit to suchclaims and the next day they go on celebrating how they averted it with hard work. Predictable? Maybe not in serbia.

I see the Albanian kids here are trying to have fun with Vuk again. May I ask you a question please, what has your FM done, not the EU's and US diplomats, but your FM? NOTHING, ZERO! Now show some respect for a hard working minister, and get back to work, if you have jobs?

"The problem with such victories is that they have to be constantly re-won. When Kosovo gains a new recognition - say no. 71, whoever that will be - it's a done deal." (Amer)

-- But eventually you know as well as I that that will reach an end point sooner or later as all the potentual fence sitters fall on one side or another. And to be fair, Kosovo has failed to gain any reversal in policy from at least 10 key countries, 5 of which are in the EU. Now we don't really know how many countries are adamantly against Kosovo's supervised statehood (certainly around 30 but maybe more), but we do know that a number of countries are critical for getting Kosovo into international institutions like the UN and the EU, and both avenues are blocked unless a final compromise is reached with Belgrade.

Jeremic has to take a considerable amount of credit for providing that diplomatic obstacle. Conversely, Pristina has to take a considerable amount of blame for failing to address this.

I think that the most important question at the moment is: "What the hell kind of policy is this government conducting?" President Tadic travels through Europe by contacting governments and Brussels Ashton, looking for solutions to ward off the damaging effect of a hastily sent resolution to UNGA; on the other side of the world his FM is visiting countries to find support for a resolution which at the end not might be the one he was fighting for.
If there is a clear message everyone can conclude out of this: This government has no idea anymore how to combine the two slogans on which they were elected, promising as well to preserve the sovereignty of the country by keeping Kosovo between its borders as to become a member of the EU.
Political experts show that it won’t make a difference if the Serbian resolution will be adopted on September 9; it will not change the existing situation. So Vuk Jeremic remains fighting in Africa for what? Maybe he is eager to hear every day that the countries he is visiting has the opinion that Serbia is very important and belongs to the leading countries on the Balkans. Hearing this gives him the hyper-feeling representing this country on a high level which makes him to an eligible president of the Serbian state. Is he really fighting for a personal higher duty under the mask of being only underway in state-affair on the cost of tax-payers money?

"I really love it when Vuk goes on one of his trips and then makes statements like this." (SiriusBlack)

-- Yes, I love it too. Vuk usually secures a number of provisions for a country that was expected to roll over and die years ago.

Might I inquire when the last time Hysterical Skender said/did anything worthwhile? How many recognitions were expected after ICJ? 35? Now we're down to "about a dozen"?

Well you got Honduras today so it's not a shut out. But something tells me Hysterical had little input garnering that one.

The problem with such victories is that they have to be constantly re-won. When Kosovo gains a new recognition - say no. 71, whoever that will be - it's a done deal. But Jeremic, or his successor, will have to go back to Namibia and Lesotho etc. every time Serbia makes a new political move to regain their support. One hope for the taxpayers of the country - the number of "etc."'s keeps declining, steadily cutting the future travel budget.

"Military rule, corruption, a huge wealth gap, crime and natural disasters have rendered Honduras one of the least developed and least secure countries in Central America."
[link]
(Roger7, 4 September 2010 14:57)

Sounds exactly like Serbia for 60 straight years until the early 2000's. While the corruption, huge wealth gap, crime and the rest still apply to Serbia.

Mike two things.

1. Serbia is out of the EU as long as it thinks it can impose its will on the EU big shots. Slovakia can't do anything to get you in if the French, German, and Brits are telling you that you will remain outside.

2. Jeremic has no merits whatsoever. The merits fall all with the Russians. It is their political capital and their monetary and military capital that has wide influence. Serbia on its own can do less than San Marino can do considering its tarnished reputation. As someone from the Serb camp the least you can do is not be so short-sighted and be thankful to the Russians. Jeremic's only merit is to be confrontational with the West and that is a merit if you're one of those types that sees the West as evil and their ultimate enemy.

As for time and waiting it out that someone mentioned here. Time proved to be on our side when we were under the occupation of Serb military forces. Let alone now when we have the backing of the West and the most advanced countries of the world. You're greatly mistaken if you think we're sleeping on the wheel and that some future KFOR retreat will find us unprepared. This time around we're very prepared. I hope you get the gist of my post. If you're thinking in that wavelength lets just say that that would prove to be very costly for Serbia.

Hey Rocky,
Before you spend money to vacation in Honduras, you need to educate yourself about the place.

"Military rule, corruption, a huge wealth gap, crime and natural disasters have rendered Honduras one of the least developed and least secure countries in Central America."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/country_profiles/1225416.stm

Here we go again,Vuk speaking on behalf of another country.
(Kosova-USA, 3 September 2010 11:18)
=================

And here we go, you shooting your mouth off without knowing all the facts.
Ever stopped to consider that perhaps Vuk has permission from all these countries to make those statements? They might've said something to him to be able to speak the way he does.
I guess you haven't considered this. You want to hear it straight from the horse's mouth. Go ask them then. I am sure they will say exactly the same thing if someone cares to interview them about it. I guess most of the world takes Vuk's word for this so they don't bother, but perhaps "New Kosova Report" can interview these people just to clar this up with you.

Cees makes a very good point but Serbia is not selling washing liquid here.

The problem is that Serbia is in a very complex situation.

Bg's strategy is to at least appear so close to Brussels that any apparent threat/sanction will damage the gov in Bg and thus a risk a non-Bxl friendly gov in Bg. It is far more nuanced than the ICJ game where they need to emphasize the 'what-if's' of the messy ICJ judgement (i.e. how stuff works in reality, not on paper).

As for Vuk, he's no dodo and know it is a thankless task but not doing all this shuttle diplomacy = accepting the western powers diktat through passivity/electoral suicide.

Cees,

How do you think Bg could have handled these inherienet contradictions in a 'better' way? It was a mess to begin with (not of Serbia's choosing I might add) and despite the action of the world's most powerful democracies (body count since 1989?), it is still a mess.

Serbia really has nothing to loose by not changing the draft. They are not going to join the EU soon, realistically it would be disastrous on many levles for major EU countries to roll-back SAA ratification (as if this was ever realistic) or put it on hold indefinitely (ergo much worse for the albos where time and patience is running out). The Serbs have the time, or more precisely more time than their enemies. It is only natural that they should play it out to their full advantage.

Might I inquire when the last time Hysterical Skender said/did anything worthwhile? How many recognitions were expected after ICJ? 35? Now we're down to "about a dozen"?

Well you got Honduras today so it's not a shut out. But something tells me Hysterical had little input garnering that one.
(Mike, 3 September 2010 22:36)


Actually it was 55 according to Jeremic. Also Hyseni is not wasting time and money on things that Serbia should have died and rolled over a long time ago. However, I am enjoying this.

Amer, two things:

1. I wouldn't get too giddy about China. Focus on the smaller countries that are within Meta's grasp. Beijing is not one of them.

2. If it does take Kosovo 40+ years to get on its feet, I think it's safe to say the Serb areas will also utilize that time to develop on their own and apart from Pristina. Kosovo may not even exist in the same manner in 40+ years.

Thank you very much Honduras.
My next holiday is in Honduras.

(Mike, 4 September 2010 06:01) - you're confusing process with progress. Serbia has been fighting a stubborn retreat, but it's a retreat all the same, since - no matter how slowly - Kosovo keeps gathering those UN votes while at the same time improving conditions at home. (It took South Korea 40+ years, so what if it's slow.)

As for the future, I'd be a little nervous about China's commitment if I were Jeremic. Albania is stepping up its efforts on Kosovo's behalf (their FM is recently back from Central America, for instance), and some high mucky-muck from China is making a 3-day trip to Albania where the only specific item discussed that has been mentioned is Kosovo. (Maybe he just needs time to recover from jet-lag?) Could be he's just taking a long time to say "forget it" to a country with which China shares a "traditional friendship," I suppose. Still, China and Albania are 1.3+ billion strong. And China is doing a heck of a lot of business nowadays in Africa with all those UN votes. The Albanians may be planning to buy wholesale rather than rent retail.

This time around we're very prepared. I hope you get the gist of my post. If you're thinking in that wavelength lets just say that that would prove to be very costly for Serbia.
(johny, 4 September 2010 20:04)
=====================
So what's changed? How prepared are you?
Oh wait, you think you can summon NATO again. Is that what you mean by prepared?

I don't see anything changing in Kosovo for Albanians to be in any position of strength or even in Albania. Unless you are counting on NATO you have nothing. Actually things have changed for the worse instead of better for you. You see, NATO would be a lot more reserved in attacking again so you have eve less muscle.

As far as you thinking that your birth rate is going to impress the Chinese and somehow you guys are going to become their right hand, forget it. A high birth rate does NOT impress the Chinese at all. They proved that by limiting their own. The only thing the Chinese will want with Albania is to peddle some surplus goods made there. I suppose this is the only time a high birth rate is going to be desirable. Cheap toys.

"1. I wouldn't get too giddy about China. Focus on the smaller countries that are within Meta's grasp. Beijing is not one of them.

2. If it does take Kosovo 40+ years to get on its feet, I think it's safe to say the Serb areas will also utilize that time to develop on their own and apart from Pristina. Kosovo may not even exist in the same manner in 40+ years.
(Mike, 4 September 2010 19:40) "

1. I'm probably the least giddy person here, but anyway, the Chinese were talking to Topi (and maybe Berisha? - the info was scattered over a number of articles, I can't quite remember), in any case, not Meta. If China wants to be a major power, and not just manufacturer to the world, it has to show it can play a constructive role outside its own neighborhood. I'm not saying that's what's behind this trip - maybe they're just interested in the new container port, or iron ore - but look at the positions held by the official who came (I think it was a delegation, but only one guy was named.) After the Chinese judge went home "sick" from the ICJ proceeding without voting or writing an opinion, you have to wonder what their take on the situation is these days. This one whale would bring a number of little fish along with it.

2. Still dreaming of a diesel generator in every pot, eh? Looking at the average age of the Serb population in Kosovo (58, the last time I saw a figure), and the declining birthrate even in Serbia itself, it's hard to see much growth in the Serbian-majority areas of Kosovo. It's not that the population will die out, but that the most energetic young people will see no future cut off in a small town, and either join the national economy or move to Serbia or emigrate entirely. In 40 years' time it seems more likely these areas will be picturesque stops on the tourist trail than thriving centers of Serbian life.

'The Serbs have the time, or more precisely more time than their enemies. It is only natural that they should play it out to their full advantage.
(Aleks, 4 September 2010 04:35) '

How do you figure the Serbs can afford to wait any better than their "enemies" - who, the Kosovars? the U.S.? Nato?

It's the Serbian politicians who are threatening to go to the streets, and this is only over a non-binding resolution. Sounds to me like this is the impatient side. Meanwhile, Serbian non-politicians are facing food shortages, gas hikes (the price is 28% higher than last year, whether they pay it as consumers or as taxpayers), and a level of production that doesn't support higher wages. And this is just from stories in today's B92. How much longer will supporting Kosovo seem worth the effort?

Kosovo is hardly a raging economic success at the moment, either, of course - there aren't many anywhere, these days - but things are generally, slowly, improving, making the wait for final resolution easier.

And then there's the demographics: every year there are more Albanians and fewer Serbs, and - based on the number of babies that have been born in recent years, this simply isn't going to change in the foreseeable future (20-30 years). The "demographic window" of opportunity is opening for the Albanians, those years in the life of a society when, thanks to a decline in the fertility rate, there are finally more working-age people than children and elderly to be supported. These fewer children can be healthier, receive better educations, and become more productive as adults. In every other country - Ireland and Asia come to mind - this has been when they have startled the world by coming on as economic tigers. But look at picture for Serbia ( http://www.nationmaster.com/country/yi-serbia-and-montenegro/Age-_distribution ) and see how the base is narrowing - there will be a declining proportion of workers (and military-age persons), and an increasing proportion of elderly to be supported, reducing budgets for investment, research, education. This is the picture of struggling, not a thriving, economy. Diplomatic struggles to protect Kosovo, not to mention tax money to support Kosovo, are going to be increasingly questioned.

And if you meant that the U.S. and Europe would soon withdraw and leave Kosovo vulnerable, the U.S. is still - after decades - supporting Israel, and So. Korea, the UK is still keeping an eye on No. Ireland. Sure, we'll be happy to leave Iraq and Afghanistan, but both countries have made it clear they want us to go. (Iraq may be having second thoughts about the date, admittedly.) So don't get your hopes up about Kosovo suddenly being abandoned and left conveniently open to attack.

Seriously - time is not on Serbia's side. It would be better to write off Kosovo now and get to work on Serbia's real problems. The EU and the US are ready to help.

Cees,

How do you think Bg could have handled these inherienet contradictions in a 'better' way? It was a mess to begin with (not of Serbia's choosing I might add) and despite the action of the world's most powerful democracies (body count since 1989?), it is still a mess.

Serbia really has nothing to loose by not changing the draft. They are not going to join the EU soon, realistically it would be disastrous on many levles for major EU countries to roll-back SAA ratification (as if this was ever realistic) or put it on hold indefinitely (ergo much worse for the albos where time and patience is running out). The Serbs have the time, or more precisely more time than their enemies. It is only natural that they should play it out to their full advantage.
(Aleks, 4 September 2010 04:35)

Aleks,
I’m not sure that I understand your question properly. If you are dealing with the contradiction of handling between the President and the FM, the answer would be clear: there should be a better communication between the two; but I think that you are asking about the two keys of the government’s policy; Kosovo and EU. I think for this government there are no contradictions, and that both are attainable. The problem lies indeed on the side of the other players. We are on the field of international politics of which Serbia is aware. Until the nine-ties countries could act within their borders without being watched over by other states or the UN. Atrocities, elimination or expulsion of ‘others’ came under the watchful eyes of non-involved nations during the events in Ruanda and on the Balkans.
- What body-count since 1989 do you mean: political or dead bodies? If you mean dead-bodies just read the “Memorandum of 1986 and you’ll find an example of before 1989 on this case –
Undeniable is that Serbia was and is a part of the dissolution of Yugoslavia, which took so many lives that the international community couldn’t look away and started, partly reluctantly, to get involved. If they did it on a successful way is to be discussed. After things are done we normally might be smarter. The texts of Dayton or Resolution 1244 could have been different. What all this has to do with the situation we are dealing with at the moment, we can conclude out of the involvement of all the players who already were actors during the Balkan wars. Significantly you call them ‘enemies’, because you think that they only act against Serbia’s interest. In this way of thinking you are right in saying that ‘the Serbs have the time’, because they are against having a seat amongst their enemies, which are de facto for you the EU and the ‘most powerful countries’ incl. the US.
I am not sure that this is the stance of your government (or the Serbian majority). I think that they would like to join the EU as soon as possible, by all means before the next elections to having a bonus for being reelected. I think that it will be impossible for this government to reach both goals: Kosovo and EU. We see the last struggle to keep both options open, but now is the time they have to make a choice, what they finally want. By changing the Serbian constitution in 2007, in which Kosovo was declared an indivisible part of Serbia, this government will have a big difficulty to accept Kosovo’s independence. I don’t think that they could find enough support to change the constitution again. At the end I think that Serbia’s ambitions to being a part of the European family will cool off and it should try to manage their economical difficulties on another way, which will be almost impossible, if all the other surrounding countries once will be a part of the EU. Kosovo will get some more support to achieve European standards, which they need without any question. Of course: goal of the EU is to get all countries of the Balkans aboard, and that in the future like in Western-Europe it would be possible again to drive through the region without nasty border-controls. In this philosophy and policy the status of the region is secondary. It is a bit of Tito’s landscape in which Kosovo was an autonomous province with the rights of a republic in which time Kosovo Albanians were bringing twice the head of the Yugoslavian state. It is up to this government, as you say: “to play it out to their full advantage”.

Here we go again,Vuk speaking on behalf of another country.
(Kosova-USA, 3 September 2010 11:18)
===…==

And here we go, you shooting your mouth off without knowing all the facts.
Ever stopped to consider that perhaps Vuk has permission from all these countries to make those statements? They might've said something to him to be able to speak the way he does.
I guess you haven't considered this. You want to hear it straight from the horse's mouth. Go ask them then. I am sure they will say exactly the same thing if someone cares to interview them about it. I guess most of the world takes Vuk's word for this so they don't bother, but perhaps "New Kosova Report" can interview these people just to clar this up with you.
Peggy

Peggy, are you suggesting that these countries have given the Serb FM permission to discuss foreign policy on their behalf?

Did you ever stop and think how your comment sounds?

What next? Can we soon expect Vuk to speak on behalf of Russia, China, Spain, etc.