FM Jeremić continues African tour

He will travel to Namibia and Lesotho over the next two days, the Foreign Ministry said.

He should tell Namibia to go back under SA rule,since they violated International law by declaring independence !!!

Niall, even Paddy Ashdown, a Brit, argues that there are important parallels between the secession of the Republic of Ireland from the UK and of Kosovo from Serbia: through prolonged misgovernance and finally brutality, both ruling countries lost the moral and practical right to govern.

And before you comment on Kosovo:
Travel advice issued by the Australian Government for your North: "Incidents of sectarian violence and dissident activity have escalated during 2009 and 2010. There have been three bomb attacks in August 2010 aimed at police and military targets. Two bombs were defused in County Down on 4 and 8 August 2010, and a car bomb exploded outside a police station in Derry on 3 August 2010. Australians could inadvertently be caught up in violence directed at others."


Sounds like EULEX should open a branch on your island...

Niall O'Doherty, get your own North in order before you comment on the situation in Kosovo.

Btw.: Talking about "bilateral agreements":

"THE one great lesson which the Irish people undoubtedly learned from the results of our fight in the three years from 1919 to 1921, seems to be forgotten today. That lesson was the unbeatable essence of unity. Under the Terror we were a united people, and we smashed the Black and Tans. Today, De Valera is doing his utmost to smash the Treaty and if he succeeds in doing that, he will also smash the Irish nation. Are we so blind we will not see the truth ? Must we have the enemy on our backs before we will work together in the common cause of Ireland ?"

General Michael Collins (killed by a fellow Irishman for signing the Conradh Angla-Éireannach)

He should tell Namibia to go back under SA rule,since they violated International law by declaring independence !!!
(Kosova-USA, 1 September 2010 10:17)

If you had bothered to do any research, SWAPO and Pretoria came to a bilateral agreement in 1989 which paved the way for Namibia's legal independence the following year.

In Pristina's case, the UDI was made but Belgrade has told Thaci and Sejdiu to get stuffed. Big difference mate. A bilateral agreement between both parties is needed, otehrwise Kosovo remains in legal limbo.

Another case of you putting your foot in your mouth :)

You have got to hand it to Vuk, he has some energy for one man. In Pretoria one day, leg it back to Belgrade to meet Hague the next...Then hop on the plane to Namibia and Lesotho. That's shuttle diplomacy for you. His performance as FM has been nothing short of exemplary.

Hysterical should sit up and learn from the master. Bravo Vuk, you are a true amabassador to Serbia.

Meanwhile Tadic on the other hand gets to spend a nice relaxing few days in Tripoli enjoying the parade and sipping coffee with Ghadaffi in his tent.

"Thaci and Sedjiu better heed the lessons of Ian Smith & co.
Niall O'Doherty

Nice try but bad example. Ian Smith headed a government, which represented only the small white minority of Rhodesia. Because of that it was obvious from the beginning that he will fail. If I remember correctly he had only the support of South Africa. As for Kosovo it is already recognized by 69 countries and supported by the large majority of Western countries, who also support it financially.

Niall,no parallels, really?

Let's check:
" They never had any 'legal', 'practical' or 'moral' right to rule us."
And the Serbs had that right to rule the K-Albanians? Who granted it to them and when?

"We never gave them to legal sanction to invade, enslave, torture, dispossess and starve us."
I must have missed the moment when the K-Albanians granted that right to the Serbs...

"Ireland belongs to her people, we are natives to Ireland, unique with our own language, culture, music, sense of belonging etc."
Funny, all the times I was in Ireland I was under the impression that the predominant language is English... Whatever: Own language, culture, music and despite your claims even a sense of belonging all applies to the K-Albanians too. And they are even natives to Kosovo. Amazing, isn't it?

" We are not British."
Well obviously Albanians aren't Serb either.

Shall I continue?

Unilateral Declaration of Independence (UDI), yours 1919 theirs 2008...

Problems with the North: both

Still no parallels???

One last question: Are you sure that you are Irish? I am only asking because you mentioned the "two faced and hypocritical mantra that the West frequently employs." I might be mistaken, but doesn't Ireland belong to the West??? It even had the audacity to recognize Kosovo. Must have been all those "financed by the EU"-signs that have misled me..

What is your point louis?

The Anglo-Irish Treaty of December 1921 (which came into force in April '22) was a bilateral agreement between the Irish Free State and the UK which legalised our independence. It allowed for British withdrawl from the South, ensured smooth handover of power (yes I know civil war came later) and most of all ensured we got universal recognition based on that mutual and bilateral agreement between London and Dublin. The Treaty was registered with the League of Nations as an international treaty in 1924.

There is a lesson in there. Just because you declare a UDI, it doesnt mean that you are fully and most importantly legally independent and act like one. The Rhodesians & Biafrans tried to pull that one off but in the end came to nought.

Moral of the story is, you are not fully and legally independent until Belgrade says so. Thaci and Sedjiu better heed the lessons of Ian Smith & co.

"Thaci and Sedjiu better heed the lessons of Ian Smith & co.
Niall O'Doherty


OMG, I thought you are smarter than that. Guess, I was wrong.
I think you should do some research about Ian Smith and 100 G whites ruling and oppressing few million blacks. same happened in Kosova/o but thank god its over now.

It will be really interesting to see how Namibia will vote. The country got independence through mediations led by Ahtisaari. In fact, Ahtisaari is a honorary citizen of Namibia. There is a partial precedent for Kosovo right there in Namibia: Ahtisaari plan -> independence.

"... and Kosovo is the country's constitutional and democratic obligation", Vuk Jeremić told the BBC.

Which constitution is he referring to? Kosovo constitutions or Serbian constitution? For Kosovo Albanians the Serbian constitution is NIL for one simple reason if you like, it was approved unilaterally by the Serbian parlament while the negotiations on Kosovo status were taking place under president Ahtisari. PLEASE get the facts right and don't try to mislead the international community.

"... a solution for Kosovo must be that of compromise, instead of having one side "win all".

What a nonsense! One one side he is "reminding everyone about the obligations of Serbian constitution" and on the other side he "forgot about the Kosovo constitution" as well as most of the important countries in the world have recognised the Kosovo independence.

"Asked whether the province's partition was an acceptable compromise, Jeremić said that any solution must be part of a compromise, and that sides must sit down and solve problems through dialogue.

He would love that, trust me! But NO thanks! The reason behind that would be Kosovo Albanians will rightly claim Presevo, Bujanovc and Medvegja but that "will not be allowed by the Serbian constitution"))

"... two thirds of the world countries have not recognized Kosovo, and that the ICJ advisory opinion did not affect their decision."

Just wait young man! One step at a time. The most powerful countries in the world are working on it))

"Serbia's strategic commitment is membership in the EU, and Kosovo is the country's constitutional and democratic obligation, Vuk Jeremić told the BBC."

bganon, since you have been downgrading the importance of Serbian constitution, here is a clear declaration from Jeremic that implies that Serbia cannot abandon K. without constitutional change. Again, it goes to show how little substance the claim that a "compromised solution can be found" has.

Now you must understand no-one will be asking Serbia to change its constitution against its will, but no one will take seriously Serbia's talk about "compromise". And this goes to show that the ultimate goal for Serbia is to stall forever, something that johnny and all of us have claimed here.

OMG, I thought you are smarter than that. Guess, I was wrong.
I think you should do some research about Ian Smith and 100 G whites ruling and oppressing few million blacks. same happened in Kosova/o but thank god its over now.
(Kosova-USA, 1 September 2010 20:22)

Yes and 1.8 million ethnic Albanians minority holding the Serb majority hostage. It aint over yet by any means mate. There's a long way to go.

"... and Kosovo is the country's constitutional and democratic obligation", Vuk Jeremić told the BBC.

Which constitution is he referring to? Kosovo constitutions or Serbian constitution?
========================
Serbian of course. Kosovo is Serbia therefore Serbian constitution is in force.

Nice try but bad example. Ian Smith headed a government, which represented only the small white minority of Rhodesia. Because of that it was obvious from the beginning that he will fail. If I remember correctly he had only the support of South Africa. As for Kosovo it is already recognized by 69 countries and supported by the large majority of Western countries, who also support it financially.
(Joe, 1 September 2010 19:06)

Joe, the ethnic Albanians of the Autonomous Province of Kosmet make up just 18% of the population of Serbia. That is indeed constitutes just like the White Rhodesians a minority breaking away from the larger polity. In Rhodesia's case it was the British Empire, in the ethnic Albanians case, the Republic of Serbia. So you see you have a minority (Albanians) attempting a session from the majority (Serbs) against the expressed wishes of the majority. Now that does that sound very democratic to you.

Just because only 69 countries have recognised Pristina's UDI doesnt make it any more legal than Smith's UDI way back in 1965 or indeed Biafra's a couple of years later in Nigeria.

If Pristina's UDI is not legally sanctioned by Belgrade then it remains in legal limbo and it goes nowhere. Thaci needs recognition from Belgrade.

"...Kosovo is the country's constitutional and democratic obligation" If it was so,the current Serb parlament is illegitime, because it does not meet the basic principle of equality of the vote. That means Serbs and Albanians had to be listed on register of votes. Albanians are in no register for decades. Of course they wouldn't vote but if f.e. an K-Albanian "respects" Serbias constitution and files a suit, the chances to dissolve Serbias parliament would be good.

Niall, even Paddy Ashdown, a Brit, argues that there are important parallels between the secession of the Republic of Ireland from the UK and of Kosovo from Serbia: through prolonged misgovernance and finally brutality, both ruling countries lost the moral and practical right to govern.

(louiscyphre, 1 September 2010 19:32)

louis, there are no parallels between the ireland and Kosovo. First of all you speak as if Britain had lost some kind of a 'moral' and 'practical' right to rule Ireland. Well let me enlighten you here. They never had any 'legal', 'practical' or 'moral' right to rule us. We never gave them to legal sanction to invade, enslave, torture, dispossess and starve us. Ireland belongs to her people, we are natives to Ireland, unique with our own language, culture, music, sense of belonging etc (unlike the Albanians of Kosmet). We are not British. That is simply more claptrap from Paddy Pantsdown.

Anyway there is no requisite in international law dealing with a state's 'moral' or 'practical' right to rule a given territory or requiring a state to surrender any territory under this so called pretence. This is just NATO/US making up the rules to suit their own imperialist-colonialist agendas. Who the hell does Paddy Pantsdown, an arrogant Brit dictating to the world who can and cannot rule in their own countries. Such hubris. And speaking of this 'moral' and 'practical' right to rule, I see nobody demanding Croatia give up Kraijina for its ethnic cleansing of Serbs, China of Tibet, Israel of Palestine, Indonesia of West Papua, Turkey of Kurdistan.

louis, if you are going to construct a legal argument, do it convincingly, otherwise you are simply parrotting the same yet now discredited, two faced and hypocritical mantra that the West frequently employs.

Your argument has no legal, social or moral basis to it.

"Just because you declare a UDI, it doesnt mean that you are fully and most importantly legally independent and act like one. The Rhodesians & Biafrans tried to pull that one off but in the end came to nought.

Moral of the story is, you are not fully and legally independent until Belgrade says so. Thaci and Sedjiu better heed the lessons of Ian Smith & co.
(Niall O'Doherty, 1 September 2010 16:27) "

The problem with Rhodesia's declaration was not that it was unilateral, but that it was illegal under a separate international law, because it was made by a racist minority. It was condemned the day after signing by the UN SC which later imposed sanctions against Rhodesia. And the only state it could get to recognize it was apartheid-era South Africa.

The problem with Biafra may simply have been that the other African nations did not dare to accept any change of borders, in any country, because none of them have rational borders, and any attempt to change them could lead to continent-wide fighting. It might be worth taking another look at Biafra, although going against the will of the region would be difficult, to say the least.

BTW, the ICJ dropped the "unilateral" part of the expression as meaningless and simply spoke of the "declaration of independence."

What will eventually cement the independence of Kosovo is the will of the European and regional countries.

As much support as Jeremic can win from the Africans, it won't matter. They will eventually agree to what the Europeans deem to be the best for their continent.

Jeremic is simply buying time for the ruling coalition to remain in power, by avoiding a general upset over Kosovo recognition.

He should tell Namibia to go back under SA rule,since they violated International law by declaring independence !!!
(Kosova-USA, 1 September 2010 10:17)

If you had bothered to do any research, SWAPO and Pretoria came to a bilateral agreement in 1989 which paved the way for Namibia's legal independence the following year.

In Pristina's case, the UDI was made but Belgrade has told Thaci and Sejdiu to get stuffed. Big difference mate. A bilateral agreement between both parties is needed, otehrwise Kosovo remains in legal limbo.

Another case of you putting your foot in your mouth :)

What is your point louis?

The Anglo-Irish Treaty of December 1921 (which came into force in April '22) was a bilateral agreement between the Irish Free State and the UK which legalised our independence. It allowed for British withdrawl from the South, ensured smooth handover of power (yes I know civil war came later) and most of all ensured we got universal recognition based on that mutual and bilateral agreement between London and Dublin. The Treaty was registered with the League of Nations as an international treaty in 1924.

There is a lesson in there. Just because you declare a UDI, it doesnt mean that you are fully and most importantly legally independent and act like one. The Rhodesians & Biafrans tried to pull that one off but in the end came to nought.

Moral of the story is, you are not fully and legally independent until Belgrade says so. Thaci and Sedjiu better heed the lessons of Ian Smith & co.

You have got to hand it to Vuk, he has some energy for one man. In Pretoria one day, leg it back to Belgrade to meet Hague the next...Then hop on the plane to Namibia and Lesotho. That's shuttle diplomacy for you. His performance as FM has been nothing short of exemplary.

Hysterical should sit up and learn from the master. Bravo Vuk, you are a true amabassador to Serbia.

Meanwhile Tadic on the other hand gets to spend a nice relaxing few days in Tripoli enjoying the parade and sipping coffee with Ghadaffi in his tent.

He will travel to Namibia and Lesotho over the next two days, the Foreign Ministry said.

He should tell Namibia to go back under SA rule,since they violated International law by declaring independence !!!

Niall, even Paddy Ashdown, a Brit, argues that there are important parallels between the secession of the Republic of Ireland from the UK and of Kosovo from Serbia: through prolonged misgovernance and finally brutality, both ruling countries lost the moral and practical right to govern.

(louiscyphre, 1 September 2010 19:32)

louis, there are no parallels between the ireland and Kosovo. First of all you speak as if Britain had lost some kind of a 'moral' and 'practical' right to rule Ireland. Well let me enlighten you here. They never had any 'legal', 'practical' or 'moral' right to rule us. We never gave them to legal sanction to invade, enslave, torture, dispossess and starve us. Ireland belongs to her people, we are natives to Ireland, unique with our own language, culture, music, sense of belonging etc (unlike the Albanians of Kosmet). We are not British. That is simply more claptrap from Paddy Pantsdown.

Anyway there is no requisite in international law dealing with a state's 'moral' or 'practical' right to rule a given territory or requiring a state to surrender any territory under this so called pretence. This is just NATO/US making up the rules to suit their own imperialist-colonialist agendas. Who the hell does Paddy Pantsdown, an arrogant Brit dictating to the world who can and cannot rule in their own countries. Such hubris. And speaking of this 'moral' and 'practical' right to rule, I see nobody demanding Croatia give up Kraijina for its ethnic cleansing of Serbs, China of Tibet, Israel of Palestine, Indonesia of West Papua, Turkey of Kurdistan.

louis, if you are going to construct a legal argument, do it convincingly, otherwise you are simply parrotting the same yet now discredited, two faced and hypocritical mantra that the West frequently employs.

Your argument has no legal, social or moral basis to it.

Nice try but bad example. Ian Smith headed a government, which represented only the small white minority of Rhodesia. Because of that it was obvious from the beginning that he will fail. If I remember correctly he had only the support of South Africa. As for Kosovo it is already recognized by 69 countries and supported by the large majority of Western countries, who also support it financially.
(Joe, 1 September 2010 19:06)

Joe, the ethnic Albanians of the Autonomous Province of Kosmet make up just 18% of the population of Serbia. That is indeed constitutes just like the White Rhodesians a minority breaking away from the larger polity. In Rhodesia's case it was the British Empire, in the ethnic Albanians case, the Republic of Serbia. So you see you have a minority (Albanians) attempting a session from the majority (Serbs) against the expressed wishes of the majority. Now that does that sound very democratic to you.

Just because only 69 countries have recognised Pristina's UDI doesnt make it any more legal than Smith's UDI way back in 1965 or indeed Biafra's a couple of years later in Nigeria.

If Pristina's UDI is not legally sanctioned by Belgrade then it remains in legal limbo and it goes nowhere. Thaci needs recognition from Belgrade.

OMG, I thought you are smarter than that. Guess, I was wrong.
I think you should do some research about Ian Smith and 100 G whites ruling and oppressing few million blacks. same happened in Kosova/o but thank god its over now.
(Kosova-USA, 1 September 2010 20:22)

Yes and 1.8 million ethnic Albanians minority holding the Serb majority hostage. It aint over yet by any means mate. There's a long way to go.

"Thaci and Sedjiu better heed the lessons of Ian Smith & co.
Niall O'Doherty


OMG, I thought you are smarter than that. Guess, I was wrong.
I think you should do some research about Ian Smith and 100 G whites ruling and oppressing few million blacks. same happened in Kosova/o but thank god its over now.

"Thaci and Sedjiu better heed the lessons of Ian Smith & co.
Niall O'Doherty

Nice try but bad example. Ian Smith headed a government, which represented only the small white minority of Rhodesia. Because of that it was obvious from the beginning that he will fail. If I remember correctly he had only the support of South Africa. As for Kosovo it is already recognized by 69 countries and supported by the large majority of Western countries, who also support it financially.

"... and Kosovo is the country's constitutional and democratic obligation", Vuk Jeremić told the BBC.

Which constitution is he referring to? Kosovo constitutions or Serbian constitution? For Kosovo Albanians the Serbian constitution is NIL for one simple reason if you like, it was approved unilaterally by the Serbian parlament while the negotiations on Kosovo status were taking place under president Ahtisari. PLEASE get the facts right and don't try to mislead the international community.

"... a solution for Kosovo must be that of compromise, instead of having one side "win all".

What a nonsense! One one side he is "reminding everyone about the obligations of Serbian constitution" and on the other side he "forgot about the Kosovo constitution" as well as most of the important countries in the world have recognised the Kosovo independence.

"Asked whether the province's partition was an acceptable compromise, Jeremić said that any solution must be part of a compromise, and that sides must sit down and solve problems through dialogue.

He would love that, trust me! But NO thanks! The reason behind that would be Kosovo Albanians will rightly claim Presevo, Bujanovc and Medvegja but that "will not be allowed by the Serbian constitution"))

"... two thirds of the world countries have not recognized Kosovo, and that the ICJ advisory opinion did not affect their decision."

Just wait young man! One step at a time. The most powerful countries in the world are working on it))

"... and Kosovo is the country's constitutional and democratic obligation", Vuk Jeremić told the BBC.

Which constitution is he referring to? Kosovo constitutions or Serbian constitution?
========================
Serbian of course. Kosovo is Serbia therefore Serbian constitution is in force.

Niall O'Doherty, get your own North in order before you comment on the situation in Kosovo.

Btw.: Talking about "bilateral agreements":

"THE one great lesson which the Irish people undoubtedly learned from the results of our fight in the three years from 1919 to 1921, seems to be forgotten today. That lesson was the unbeatable essence of unity. Under the Terror we were a united people, and we smashed the Black and Tans. Today, De Valera is doing his utmost to smash the Treaty and if he succeeds in doing that, he will also smash the Irish nation. Are we so blind we will not see the truth ? Must we have the enemy on our backs before we will work together in the common cause of Ireland ?"

General Michael Collins (killed by a fellow Irishman for signing the Conradh Angla-Éireannach)

"Serbia's strategic commitment is membership in the EU, and Kosovo is the country's constitutional and democratic obligation, Vuk Jeremić told the BBC."

bganon, since you have been downgrading the importance of Serbian constitution, here is a clear declaration from Jeremic that implies that Serbia cannot abandon K. without constitutional change. Again, it goes to show how little substance the claim that a "compromised solution can be found" has.

Now you must understand no-one will be asking Serbia to change its constitution against its will, but no one will take seriously Serbia's talk about "compromise". And this goes to show that the ultimate goal for Serbia is to stall forever, something that johnny and all of us have claimed here.

It will be really interesting to see how Namibia will vote. The country got independence through mediations led by Ahtisaari. In fact, Ahtisaari is a honorary citizen of Namibia. There is a partial precedent for Kosovo right there in Namibia: Ahtisaari plan -> independence.

Niall, even Paddy Ashdown, a Brit, argues that there are important parallels between the secession of the Republic of Ireland from the UK and of Kosovo from Serbia: through prolonged misgovernance and finally brutality, both ruling countries lost the moral and practical right to govern.

And before you comment on Kosovo:
Travel advice issued by the Australian Government for your North: "Incidents of sectarian violence and dissident activity have escalated during 2009 and 2010. There have been three bomb attacks in August 2010 aimed at police and military targets. Two bombs were defused in County Down on 4 and 8 August 2010, and a car bomb exploded outside a police station in Derry on 3 August 2010. Australians could inadvertently be caught up in violence directed at others."


Sounds like EULEX should open a branch on your island...

Niall,no parallels, really?

Let's check:
" They never had any 'legal', 'practical' or 'moral' right to rule us."
And the Serbs had that right to rule the K-Albanians? Who granted it to them and when?

"We never gave them to legal sanction to invade, enslave, torture, dispossess and starve us."
I must have missed the moment when the K-Albanians granted that right to the Serbs...

"Ireland belongs to her people, we are natives to Ireland, unique with our own language, culture, music, sense of belonging etc."
Funny, all the times I was in Ireland I was under the impression that the predominant language is English... Whatever: Own language, culture, music and despite your claims even a sense of belonging all applies to the K-Albanians too. And they are even natives to Kosovo. Amazing, isn't it?

" We are not British."
Well obviously Albanians aren't Serb either.

Shall I continue?

Unilateral Declaration of Independence (UDI), yours 1919 theirs 2008...

Problems with the North: both

Still no parallels???

One last question: Are you sure that you are Irish? I am only asking because you mentioned the "two faced and hypocritical mantra that the West frequently employs." I might be mistaken, but doesn't Ireland belong to the West??? It even had the audacity to recognize Kosovo. Must have been all those "financed by the EU"-signs that have misled me..

"...Kosovo is the country's constitutional and democratic obligation" If it was so,the current Serb parlament is illegitime, because it does not meet the basic principle of equality of the vote. That means Serbs and Albanians had to be listed on register of votes. Albanians are in no register for decades. Of course they wouldn't vote but if f.e. an K-Albanian "respects" Serbias constitution and files a suit, the chances to dissolve Serbias parliament would be good.

"Just because you declare a UDI, it doesnt mean that you are fully and most importantly legally independent and act like one. The Rhodesians & Biafrans tried to pull that one off but in the end came to nought.

Moral of the story is, you are not fully and legally independent until Belgrade says so. Thaci and Sedjiu better heed the lessons of Ian Smith & co.
(Niall O'Doherty, 1 September 2010 16:27) "

The problem with Rhodesia's declaration was not that it was unilateral, but that it was illegal under a separate international law, because it was made by a racist minority. It was condemned the day after signing by the UN SC which later imposed sanctions against Rhodesia. And the only state it could get to recognize it was apartheid-era South Africa.

The problem with Biafra may simply have been that the other African nations did not dare to accept any change of borders, in any country, because none of them have rational borders, and any attempt to change them could lead to continent-wide fighting. It might be worth taking another look at Biafra, although going against the will of the region would be difficult, to say the least.

BTW, the ICJ dropped the "unilateral" part of the expression as meaningless and simply spoke of the "declaration of independence."

What will eventually cement the independence of Kosovo is the will of the European and regional countries.

As much support as Jeremic can win from the Africans, it won't matter. They will eventually agree to what the Europeans deem to be the best for their continent.

Jeremic is simply buying time for the ruling coalition to remain in power, by avoiding a general upset over Kosovo recognition.