27

Monday, 30.08.2010.

10:23

“EU doesn't want UN Kosovo debate”

Sonja Liht thinks that a compromise with the EU is possible, but that the EU wants Serbia to give up on a debate on Kosovo in the UN.

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27 Komentari

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balcanico

pre 13 godina

Sreten:

There is nothing wrong with negotiations per se, just that the table has turned.

For years, Belgrade seemed willing to negotiate/trade on the rights of non-Albanian citizens in Kosovo, but refused out-of-hand the question of Kosovo independence. Pristina, on the other hand, was willing, or rather pressured, to accept devolving unprecedented levels of autonomy and rights to minoritygroups and areas, as long as independence would also be a status option for the negotiations. Obviously, that is no longer the case for Pristina, nor Belgrade.

If Belgrade, and its supporters, would have played smarter when the negotiations were still on status, they would have played the card "we are willing to offer Pristina the same level of autonomy and status as Pristina is willing to offer Kosovo's non-Albanian communities".

Instead, the contradictory message from Belgrade for years was that "we are 100% for negotiations on the future status of Kosovo, as long as Kosovo stays in Serbia".

Now, as Dodik and others have pointed out, it is already too late to reopen the issue of Kosovo's status, as recognised by the 69 countries that did. That's a done deal. However, the window is still open to secure Serb interests in Kosovo, and for why Kosovo is so important to Serbia and Serbs (apart from making Serbia look just a little bit larger on the map than the relatively small and landlocked geographical territory it is), but this window will be shrinking as time goes by and Belgrade continues to prioritize fighting political windmills and not the battles it could and should have good chances of winning.

bganon

pre 13 godina

EA you want to go back to 1989? The story in 1989 was very different then and you are mistaken in thinking that the west's position has anything to do with 1989. They couldn't care less. And to be honest they couldn't care less about 1999 either.

Let me tell you what they are concerned about - not climbing down from the current policy on Kosovo because it would be bad for prestige. Above all they are concerned about the Kosovo Albanian population turning against them, that is what they really mean when they talk about regional stability.

You want to believe that this is some kind of moral justice or about some western countries being disgusted with Milosevic's policies and by extension Tadic's insistence that Serbia doesn't give up on Kosovo? Those are such minor factors. Policies are maintained for practical reasons and reasons of interest.

And I disagree with you that Serbia is not in a position to set red lines. For as long as there is a Serbian majority in parts of Kosovo there is a practical reason for setting red lines. Even if there wasn't a Serbian majority in Kosovo, Serbia could still set a red line, although it might be unrealistic to do so. Do you still not understand that this is a bargaining position and that both the red lines of two entities negotiating are actually liable to alterations? Like I said the proper guarantees, threats, carrots etc. Thats how a deal is done.

William Hague was invited to Belgrade by Tadic some time ago actually. Its a pity that there was nothing concrete to agree upon, but no doubt the meeting was useful in clarifying positions.

Luke Buyenovich

pre 13 godina

"EU doesn't want UN Kosovo debate"The obvious reason is EU and their fake Kosovo State would lose.Serbia for its just cause should seek support in in all International Organizations certainly, including UNGA.However,final decision in regard to Kosovo status will be made by UNSC not EU.Germany, dominant State in EU their foreign Minister Mr. Westerwelle stated the final borders of Southeastern Europe are already drawn in Brussels.Not so fast "Mr.Ribbentrop" Serbs may not agreed with your new map.As for ICJ opinion its just that, non binding opinion which did not change anything on the ground in Kosovo.Kosovo international borders are in Serbian hands as stipulated in UN resolution 1244.ICJ can not change that resolution,it should be clear to everybody,As for negotiations Serbs should negotiate in good faith with everybody including Kosovo Albanians

EA

pre 13 godina

Bganon,

"...diplomacy works with everybody, there are no exceptions. Provided proper guarantees are made, proper compromises made, carrots offered, sticks threatened a solution for Kosovo is possible."

Can you tell us what West was trying to do when talking to Serbia before the conflict started in former Yugoslavia? Serbia of Milloshevic never took seriously the West. Don't you agree? He thought he could get away with ethnic cleansing in Kosovo and "finish off the Albanians". I personally think Serbia is paying the price for Milloshevic's actions in former Yugoslavia. You talk about "proper compromises" made, "carrots offered, sticks threatened a solution" for Kosovo...I agree in principle but the problem between Serbs and Albanians is that what is "proper" for Serbs is "improper" for the Albanians and other way around. That is why President Ahtisari was asked to help to find a solution to Kosovo issue. When it comes "compromise solution" (Serbian favorite slogan), Serbia has set "red lines". Funny enough Serbia is not in a position to set "red lines" when it comes to Kosovo. Now Serbia has come out unilaterally with a draft resolution about Kosovo after the ICJ has given its OPINION. West is not happy...we had German Foreign Minister "reminding" Serbia that the Kosovo independence is done....William Hague is following up now I leave it to you to understand whether they are offering carrots or sticks or both to Serbia

Danilo

pre 13 godina

Sound and fury over nothing.

You guys don't seem to realize (and don't WANT to realize) that the UNGA can't do anything except recommend something to the Security Council.

Seeing as the USA has a permanent seat on the UNSC, this issue isn't going anywhere, ever.

"Dislike" this all you want, it doesn't make it any less true

miri

pre 13 godina

EA you should also know that diplomacy works with everybody, there are no exceptions. Provided proper guarantees are made, proper compromises made, carrots offered, sticks threatened a solution for Kosovo is possible.

Its a pity you don't believe that is the case.
(bganon, 30 August 2010 18:54)

Sure bganon, diplomacy is the best thing. We tried to tell you for decades but you refused to listened. We are ready to compromise over everything except status. How does this sound for a good diplomacy.

pss

pre 13 godina

Well, EU, think about this: maybe next time Russia does not want a UN debate about Georgia. How will you, the EU, respond then?

No double standards please!
(Ron, 30 August 2010 15:06)
Has there ever been a UNGA debate on Georgia, or have they all been confined to the UNSC where the EU says that any debate should remain?
NO double standards please! or does this not apply to Serbian posters.

bganon

pre 13 godina

EA I see so your previous response to me was incorrect. Why didn't you just say you quoted the wrong bit?

I know Licht's position well, her point was criticising the previous position adopted by Milosevic who refused to engage in serious negotiations with Albanians. Certain western countries that are obstructing potential negotiations now and Kosovo Albanian politicians have Milosevic's absolutist position today. That is something I have pointed out before.

The point you are trying to make is at the beginning, not the end and it says Licht believes that a compromise with the EU is possible.

EA you should also know that diplomacy works with everybody, there are no exceptions. Provided proper guarantees are made, proper compromises made, carrots offered, sticks threatened a solution for Kosovo is possible.

Its a pity you don't believe that is the case.

Sreten

pre 13 godina

First, I don't even see a problem with the part that is saying Unilateral declaration is not acceptable, but negotiated solution should be find.
One has to wonder...
To hear the negative chorus of voices from Pristina - including the Albanians and the representatives of the Quint (the US, UK, Italy, France and Germany and including the EU and NATO) - it would appear that a fully negotiated settlement for Kosovo status would be the worst possible outcome. They all have vigorously rejected Serbia's suggestion of negotiations after the ICJ decision on Kosovo independence . They repeadeatly said that negotiations are out of the question as issue of Kosovo status is closed. Why - in the 21st Century and the heart of Europe - are the leading Western democracies arrayed against a negotiated final status agreement?
I'm not saying that negotiations would lead to solution, but what is so wrong with negotiations anyway? Negotiations are not the enemy. Simple insistence on there being nothing to negotiate cannot be the Quint's only response. I fail to see why is talking about something bad? What's so wrong with peace, dialogue and understanding?
If you are looking for someone who avoids dialogue it's not hard to find....
German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle didn't say anything new - issue is closed, borders are drawn, etc. etc. with stern warnings to Serbia that "cooperation is at the core of European values". There he talks about need for Serbia's cooperation, of course, if it is truly European value, it's really well hidden. I mean, this is the side that continuously refused dialogue, supported UNILATERAL declarations, is now opposed to UN debate, etc.
Cooperation?
I'll check the dictionary, maybe I don't understand meaning of the world well...
So, they don't want UN debate now?
From late John F. Kennedy's last speech
"...nobody should fear public scrutiny. For from that scrutiny comes understanding; and from that understanding comes support or opposition. And both are necessary for democracy."

and,

"Without debate, without criticism, no Administration and no country can succeed--and no republic can survive. That is why the Athenian lawmaker Solon decreed it a crime for any citizen to shrink from controversy."

EA

pre 13 godina

Mike and Bganon,

The article is at the end aiming at Serbia or pointing the finger on Serbia when stating ".... but that the EU wants Serbia to give up on a debate on Kosovo in the UN.

At present that is the issue. Serbia is trying to create a split between EU mainly the powerful countries and the weakest links ie Romania, Greece, Cyprus, Spain and Spain. That is the TRUTH. You know that we know that.

Mike

pre 13 godina

EA, I have to share the same level of confusion towards your comment as bganon. How can you take the quote

"...to those who are prone to quickly forget, that the policy of refusing talks and compromises is very dangerous,”

and then blame Serbia for it when the very article writes about voices within the EU wanting to circumvent any debate in the UN? Belgrade has been more than willing to cooperate and find a compromise solution. Key Western powers have been the ones most adamant in quashing any debate, stopping the new resolution, and ramming through ultimatums while refusing to acknowledge the significant opposition to its policies in Kosovo throughout the world. You're not making any sense. You made even less sense in your reply to bganon.

Jovan

pre 13 godina

who cares what those EUSSR-bureaucrats want or not?

the UN is the one and only non-serbian institution that has the moral right to contribute in this matter at all.

but first and foremost it is Serbia.

EA

pre 13 godina

"....but she is polite enough not to point fingers at anybody. At the same time the ICJ decision cannot be ignored."
(bganon, 30 August 2010 13:49)

Bganon,

You know as we all know very well the when it comes "negotiations" the finger is point at Serbia. Serbia with its policies has created a lot of problems in the Balkans. The history has tought us that diplomacy doesn't work with Serbia. Bear in mind for example the mission of Richard Hollbrook to Milosevic, now the mission of German Foreign Minister to Belgrade...As George Bush said in Tirana few years ago "Enough is enough"...in other words why avoiding THE TRUTH?

Ron

pre 13 godina

Wow, I thought the EU wanted to promote international law and cooperation. Well, for me an UDI really isn't a good example of cooperation.

Well, EU, think about this: maybe next time Russia does not want a UN debate about Georgia. How will you, the EU, respond then?

No double standards please!

doodah

pre 13 godina

I'd like to start by thanking Sonja Liht for convincing me to go into politics in Serbia -- if she is an authority, then the field is WIDE open.

."

Sincerely,

John Bosnitch
Journalist
john.b@imcnews.com
(John Bosnitch, 30 August 2010 14:39)
Going into politics in Serbia sounds appropriate, very appropriate.

Zoran

pre 13 godina

i don't think that Serbians are so stupid that they can't understand who decide and where are the money...
(luigi, 30 August 2010 14:27)
--
We are not that stupid but we are that stubborn. That's why we have destroyed empires in the past and will continue to do so.

It was the Russians that helped us defeat the Ottomans. It was the US and Russians that helped us defeat the NAZIs and it will be the Russians and Chinese who will help us defeat the Euro-Atlantic empire. Hopefully, this time we'll do it diplomatically. ROFL! :)

pss

pre 13 godina

Who really cares what the EU wants, or the US for that matter. This is a matter between Belgrade and Kosovo. Everyone else butt out. If the EU thinks Serbia is spinning their wheels, so be it. The only reason anyone wants to table this discussion is because they fear an adverse result.
(Patrik, 30 August 2010 14:43)
Lets see you say for the EU and US to butt out it is Pristina and Belgrades business which Belgrade is taking to the whole of the UN???
Or maybe you mean anyone supporting Kosovo should butt out.

Nenad

pre 13 godina

Mr. Bosnitch,

So you argue that Serbs should strive to show the world that non-Albanians continue to be cleansed and that Serbian soveignty should be vigorously defended.

Sounds great. Then what?

B92,

Please show us all how good and objective you are and don't omit my remarks.

Thanks.

Patrik

pre 13 godina

Who really cares what the EU wants, or the US for that matter. This is a matter between Belgrade and Kosovo. Everyone else butt out. If the EU thinks Serbia is spinning their wheels, so be it. The only reason anyone wants to table this discussion is because they fear an adverse result.

John Bosnitch

pre 13 godina

I'd like to start by thanking Sonja Liht for convincing me to go into politics in Serbia -- if she is an authority, then the field is WIDE open.

There's no doubt Serbia has missed many opportunities on the Kosovo issue, but those are merely details compared to the fundamental error of pursuing EU and NATO membership.

These two powerful external organizations shore up the marionette Tadic government against its own people with money and support from non-Serbian sources. But the government is forced to follow an openly anti-self-sufficiency policy to please our enemies in return for their support.

This weakness is so obvious that it should long ago have become the main target of a serious opposition group. If just one reasonable party were to categorically reject both the EU and NATO, it could win proportional representation seats in parliament and hold the balance of power in a legislature where barely ten seats determines the government.

It is not borrowed money nor foreign paymasters that are needed to keep Kosovo. What is needed is transparent honesty and patriotism.

Given Ms Liht's well-known preference for taking her banquets at the trough of foreign funding, one could not have expected her to come up with anything other than to advise that the entire nation do the same. Fortunately, Sonja Liht's tendencies are not representative of the Serbian public.

Contrary to compromising on core values and national sovereignty, a successful Kosovo solution can only be found in telling the world the truth about the continuing ethnic cleansing of non-Albanians from Kosovo, and stubbornly defending the Serbian nation's sovereign right to remain on its own land in its full multi-ethnic character.

Thank you for your totally inappropriate advice Ms Liht. Now please go back to Mr Soros and give him this message: "It's no use, the Serbs won't fall for it."

Sincerely,

John Bosnitch
Journalist
john.b@imcnews.com

highduke

pre 13 godina

Oh yeah, 'Tadic will recognize Kosovo' right Albanians? Do I need to explain why Sonja Liht has credibility others in our govt lack? Tadic has the West on its knees in diplomatic fear. Even the most self-deluded pro-UDI fanatic can see it: NO new recognitions, NO unilateral resolutions, NO UN and NO KFOR soon either.

Zoran

pre 13 godina

“When we recall our recent past, in which inflexibility and intransigence for compromise made easier the biggest persecutions of Serbs from Croatia and from Kosovo...” Liht told Belgrade daily Blic.
--
Is that how they describe genocide? "persecution"?

In fact, we have always called for negotiations, however, we have only ever been offered ultimatums. The Rambo-uillet ultimatum being just one example.

luigi

pre 13 godina

All this comments by the "cornered" ruling politicians of Serbia are all boring..the chief of the Main European country has been very clear about borders and status..Perhaps someone in the Tadic Governament will say that mr.Guido is equal to mr Druzinda but i don't think that Serbians are so stupid that they can't understand who decide and where are the money...

bganon

pre 13 godina

EA how you can tie in a statement directed towards the Kosovo Albanian position congratulating it and linking that particular statement to the ICJ decision mystifies me.

Sonja Licht is saying that talks / negotitations should take place but she is polite enough not to point fingers at anybody. At the same time the ICJ decision cannot be ignored.

kujon

pre 13 godina

THere wouldn't be a need for the UN if the ICJ would have made a ruling which substance. To say that merely 'declaring it' is not illegal the ICJ created a need for a more adamant ruling one way or the other.
Serbia is not trying or wanting chaos, they want clear and focused talks on status.

EA

pre 13 godina

"...to those who are prone to quickly forget, that the policy of refusing talks and compromises is very dangerous,”

Absolutely nailed it! It was Serbia who approached the ICJ for an OPINION. Serbia pissed off with the ICJ OPINION wants to create chaos at the UN knowing that any resolution is NOT LEGAL binding.

Zoran

pre 13 godina

i don't think that Serbians are so stupid that they can't understand who decide and where are the money...
(luigi, 30 August 2010 14:27)
--
We are not that stupid but we are that stubborn. That's why we have destroyed empires in the past and will continue to do so.

It was the Russians that helped us defeat the Ottomans. It was the US and Russians that helped us defeat the NAZIs and it will be the Russians and Chinese who will help us defeat the Euro-Atlantic empire. Hopefully, this time we'll do it diplomatically. ROFL! :)

John Bosnitch

pre 13 godina

I'd like to start by thanking Sonja Liht for convincing me to go into politics in Serbia -- if she is an authority, then the field is WIDE open.

There's no doubt Serbia has missed many opportunities on the Kosovo issue, but those are merely details compared to the fundamental error of pursuing EU and NATO membership.

These two powerful external organizations shore up the marionette Tadic government against its own people with money and support from non-Serbian sources. But the government is forced to follow an openly anti-self-sufficiency policy to please our enemies in return for their support.

This weakness is so obvious that it should long ago have become the main target of a serious opposition group. If just one reasonable party were to categorically reject both the EU and NATO, it could win proportional representation seats in parliament and hold the balance of power in a legislature where barely ten seats determines the government.

It is not borrowed money nor foreign paymasters that are needed to keep Kosovo. What is needed is transparent honesty and patriotism.

Given Ms Liht's well-known preference for taking her banquets at the trough of foreign funding, one could not have expected her to come up with anything other than to advise that the entire nation do the same. Fortunately, Sonja Liht's tendencies are not representative of the Serbian public.

Contrary to compromising on core values and national sovereignty, a successful Kosovo solution can only be found in telling the world the truth about the continuing ethnic cleansing of non-Albanians from Kosovo, and stubbornly defending the Serbian nation's sovereign right to remain on its own land in its full multi-ethnic character.

Thank you for your totally inappropriate advice Ms Liht. Now please go back to Mr Soros and give him this message: "It's no use, the Serbs won't fall for it."

Sincerely,

John Bosnitch
Journalist
john.b@imcnews.com

kujon

pre 13 godina

THere wouldn't be a need for the UN if the ICJ would have made a ruling which substance. To say that merely 'declaring it' is not illegal the ICJ created a need for a more adamant ruling one way or the other.
Serbia is not trying or wanting chaos, they want clear and focused talks on status.

Mike

pre 13 godina

EA, I have to share the same level of confusion towards your comment as bganon. How can you take the quote

"...to those who are prone to quickly forget, that the policy of refusing talks and compromises is very dangerous,”

and then blame Serbia for it when the very article writes about voices within the EU wanting to circumvent any debate in the UN? Belgrade has been more than willing to cooperate and find a compromise solution. Key Western powers have been the ones most adamant in quashing any debate, stopping the new resolution, and ramming through ultimatums while refusing to acknowledge the significant opposition to its policies in Kosovo throughout the world. You're not making any sense. You made even less sense in your reply to bganon.

EA

pre 13 godina

"...to those who are prone to quickly forget, that the policy of refusing talks and compromises is very dangerous,”

Absolutely nailed it! It was Serbia who approached the ICJ for an OPINION. Serbia pissed off with the ICJ OPINION wants to create chaos at the UN knowing that any resolution is NOT LEGAL binding.

highduke

pre 13 godina

Oh yeah, 'Tadic will recognize Kosovo' right Albanians? Do I need to explain why Sonja Liht has credibility others in our govt lack? Tadic has the West on its knees in diplomatic fear. Even the most self-deluded pro-UDI fanatic can see it: NO new recognitions, NO unilateral resolutions, NO UN and NO KFOR soon either.

Ron

pre 13 godina

Wow, I thought the EU wanted to promote international law and cooperation. Well, for me an UDI really isn't a good example of cooperation.

Well, EU, think about this: maybe next time Russia does not want a UN debate about Georgia. How will you, the EU, respond then?

No double standards please!

Jovan

pre 13 godina

who cares what those EUSSR-bureaucrats want or not?

the UN is the one and only non-serbian institution that has the moral right to contribute in this matter at all.

but first and foremost it is Serbia.

Zoran

pre 13 godina

“When we recall our recent past, in which inflexibility and intransigence for compromise made easier the biggest persecutions of Serbs from Croatia and from Kosovo...” Liht told Belgrade daily Blic.
--
Is that how they describe genocide? "persecution"?

In fact, we have always called for negotiations, however, we have only ever been offered ultimatums. The Rambo-uillet ultimatum being just one example.

bganon

pre 13 godina

EA how you can tie in a statement directed towards the Kosovo Albanian position congratulating it and linking that particular statement to the ICJ decision mystifies me.

Sonja Licht is saying that talks / negotitations should take place but she is polite enough not to point fingers at anybody. At the same time the ICJ decision cannot be ignored.

Patrik

pre 13 godina

Who really cares what the EU wants, or the US for that matter. This is a matter between Belgrade and Kosovo. Everyone else butt out. If the EU thinks Serbia is spinning their wheels, so be it. The only reason anyone wants to table this discussion is because they fear an adverse result.

bganon

pre 13 godina

EA I see so your previous response to me was incorrect. Why didn't you just say you quoted the wrong bit?

I know Licht's position well, her point was criticising the previous position adopted by Milosevic who refused to engage in serious negotiations with Albanians. Certain western countries that are obstructing potential negotiations now and Kosovo Albanian politicians have Milosevic's absolutist position today. That is something I have pointed out before.

The point you are trying to make is at the beginning, not the end and it says Licht believes that a compromise with the EU is possible.

EA you should also know that diplomacy works with everybody, there are no exceptions. Provided proper guarantees are made, proper compromises made, carrots offered, sticks threatened a solution for Kosovo is possible.

Its a pity you don't believe that is the case.

EA

pre 13 godina

"....but she is polite enough not to point fingers at anybody. At the same time the ICJ decision cannot be ignored."
(bganon, 30 August 2010 13:49)

Bganon,

You know as we all know very well the when it comes "negotiations" the finger is point at Serbia. Serbia with its policies has created a lot of problems in the Balkans. The history has tought us that diplomacy doesn't work with Serbia. Bear in mind for example the mission of Richard Hollbrook to Milosevic, now the mission of German Foreign Minister to Belgrade...As George Bush said in Tirana few years ago "Enough is enough"...in other words why avoiding THE TRUTH?

Sreten

pre 13 godina

First, I don't even see a problem with the part that is saying Unilateral declaration is not acceptable, but negotiated solution should be find.
One has to wonder...
To hear the negative chorus of voices from Pristina - including the Albanians and the representatives of the Quint (the US, UK, Italy, France and Germany and including the EU and NATO) - it would appear that a fully negotiated settlement for Kosovo status would be the worst possible outcome. They all have vigorously rejected Serbia's suggestion of negotiations after the ICJ decision on Kosovo independence . They repeadeatly said that negotiations are out of the question as issue of Kosovo status is closed. Why - in the 21st Century and the heart of Europe - are the leading Western democracies arrayed against a negotiated final status agreement?
I'm not saying that negotiations would lead to solution, but what is so wrong with negotiations anyway? Negotiations are not the enemy. Simple insistence on there being nothing to negotiate cannot be the Quint's only response. I fail to see why is talking about something bad? What's so wrong with peace, dialogue and understanding?
If you are looking for someone who avoids dialogue it's not hard to find....
German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle didn't say anything new - issue is closed, borders are drawn, etc. etc. with stern warnings to Serbia that "cooperation is at the core of European values". There he talks about need for Serbia's cooperation, of course, if it is truly European value, it's really well hidden. I mean, this is the side that continuously refused dialogue, supported UNILATERAL declarations, is now opposed to UN debate, etc.
Cooperation?
I'll check the dictionary, maybe I don't understand meaning of the world well...
So, they don't want UN debate now?
From late John F. Kennedy's last speech
"...nobody should fear public scrutiny. For from that scrutiny comes understanding; and from that understanding comes support or opposition. And both are necessary for democracy."

and,

"Without debate, without criticism, no Administration and no country can succeed--and no republic can survive. That is why the Athenian lawmaker Solon decreed it a crime for any citizen to shrink from controversy."

doodah

pre 13 godina

I'd like to start by thanking Sonja Liht for convincing me to go into politics in Serbia -- if she is an authority, then the field is WIDE open.

."

Sincerely,

John Bosnitch
Journalist
john.b@imcnews.com
(John Bosnitch, 30 August 2010 14:39)
Going into politics in Serbia sounds appropriate, very appropriate.

Nenad

pre 13 godina

Mr. Bosnitch,

So you argue that Serbs should strive to show the world that non-Albanians continue to be cleansed and that Serbian soveignty should be vigorously defended.

Sounds great. Then what?

B92,

Please show us all how good and objective you are and don't omit my remarks.

Thanks.

pss

pre 13 godina

Who really cares what the EU wants, or the US for that matter. This is a matter between Belgrade and Kosovo. Everyone else butt out. If the EU thinks Serbia is spinning their wheels, so be it. The only reason anyone wants to table this discussion is because they fear an adverse result.
(Patrik, 30 August 2010 14:43)
Lets see you say for the EU and US to butt out it is Pristina and Belgrades business which Belgrade is taking to the whole of the UN???
Or maybe you mean anyone supporting Kosovo should butt out.

EA

pre 13 godina

Mike and Bganon,

The article is at the end aiming at Serbia or pointing the finger on Serbia when stating ".... but that the EU wants Serbia to give up on a debate on Kosovo in the UN.

At present that is the issue. Serbia is trying to create a split between EU mainly the powerful countries and the weakest links ie Romania, Greece, Cyprus, Spain and Spain. That is the TRUTH. You know that we know that.

luigi

pre 13 godina

All this comments by the "cornered" ruling politicians of Serbia are all boring..the chief of the Main European country has been very clear about borders and status..Perhaps someone in the Tadic Governament will say that mr.Guido is equal to mr Druzinda but i don't think that Serbians are so stupid that they can't understand who decide and where are the money...

pss

pre 13 godina

Well, EU, think about this: maybe next time Russia does not want a UN debate about Georgia. How will you, the EU, respond then?

No double standards please!
(Ron, 30 August 2010 15:06)
Has there ever been a UNGA debate on Georgia, or have they all been confined to the UNSC where the EU says that any debate should remain?
NO double standards please! or does this not apply to Serbian posters.

Danilo

pre 13 godina

Sound and fury over nothing.

You guys don't seem to realize (and don't WANT to realize) that the UNGA can't do anything except recommend something to the Security Council.

Seeing as the USA has a permanent seat on the UNSC, this issue isn't going anywhere, ever.

"Dislike" this all you want, it doesn't make it any less true

bganon

pre 13 godina

EA you want to go back to 1989? The story in 1989 was very different then and you are mistaken in thinking that the west's position has anything to do with 1989. They couldn't care less. And to be honest they couldn't care less about 1999 either.

Let me tell you what they are concerned about - not climbing down from the current policy on Kosovo because it would be bad for prestige. Above all they are concerned about the Kosovo Albanian population turning against them, that is what they really mean when they talk about regional stability.

You want to believe that this is some kind of moral justice or about some western countries being disgusted with Milosevic's policies and by extension Tadic's insistence that Serbia doesn't give up on Kosovo? Those are such minor factors. Policies are maintained for practical reasons and reasons of interest.

And I disagree with you that Serbia is not in a position to set red lines. For as long as there is a Serbian majority in parts of Kosovo there is a practical reason for setting red lines. Even if there wasn't a Serbian majority in Kosovo, Serbia could still set a red line, although it might be unrealistic to do so. Do you still not understand that this is a bargaining position and that both the red lines of two entities negotiating are actually liable to alterations? Like I said the proper guarantees, threats, carrots etc. Thats how a deal is done.

William Hague was invited to Belgrade by Tadic some time ago actually. Its a pity that there was nothing concrete to agree upon, but no doubt the meeting was useful in clarifying positions.

miri

pre 13 godina

EA you should also know that diplomacy works with everybody, there are no exceptions. Provided proper guarantees are made, proper compromises made, carrots offered, sticks threatened a solution for Kosovo is possible.

Its a pity you don't believe that is the case.
(bganon, 30 August 2010 18:54)

Sure bganon, diplomacy is the best thing. We tried to tell you for decades but you refused to listened. We are ready to compromise over everything except status. How does this sound for a good diplomacy.

EA

pre 13 godina

Bganon,

"...diplomacy works with everybody, there are no exceptions. Provided proper guarantees are made, proper compromises made, carrots offered, sticks threatened a solution for Kosovo is possible."

Can you tell us what West was trying to do when talking to Serbia before the conflict started in former Yugoslavia? Serbia of Milloshevic never took seriously the West. Don't you agree? He thought he could get away with ethnic cleansing in Kosovo and "finish off the Albanians". I personally think Serbia is paying the price for Milloshevic's actions in former Yugoslavia. You talk about "proper compromises" made, "carrots offered, sticks threatened a solution" for Kosovo...I agree in principle but the problem between Serbs and Albanians is that what is "proper" for Serbs is "improper" for the Albanians and other way around. That is why President Ahtisari was asked to help to find a solution to Kosovo issue. When it comes "compromise solution" (Serbian favorite slogan), Serbia has set "red lines". Funny enough Serbia is not in a position to set "red lines" when it comes to Kosovo. Now Serbia has come out unilaterally with a draft resolution about Kosovo after the ICJ has given its OPINION. West is not happy...we had German Foreign Minister "reminding" Serbia that the Kosovo independence is done....William Hague is following up now I leave it to you to understand whether they are offering carrots or sticks or both to Serbia

Luke Buyenovich

pre 13 godina

"EU doesn't want UN Kosovo debate"The obvious reason is EU and their fake Kosovo State would lose.Serbia for its just cause should seek support in in all International Organizations certainly, including UNGA.However,final decision in regard to Kosovo status will be made by UNSC not EU.Germany, dominant State in EU their foreign Minister Mr. Westerwelle stated the final borders of Southeastern Europe are already drawn in Brussels.Not so fast "Mr.Ribbentrop" Serbs may not agreed with your new map.As for ICJ opinion its just that, non binding opinion which did not change anything on the ground in Kosovo.Kosovo international borders are in Serbian hands as stipulated in UN resolution 1244.ICJ can not change that resolution,it should be clear to everybody,As for negotiations Serbs should negotiate in good faith with everybody including Kosovo Albanians

balcanico

pre 13 godina

Sreten:

There is nothing wrong with negotiations per se, just that the table has turned.

For years, Belgrade seemed willing to negotiate/trade on the rights of non-Albanian citizens in Kosovo, but refused out-of-hand the question of Kosovo independence. Pristina, on the other hand, was willing, or rather pressured, to accept devolving unprecedented levels of autonomy and rights to minoritygroups and areas, as long as independence would also be a status option for the negotiations. Obviously, that is no longer the case for Pristina, nor Belgrade.

If Belgrade, and its supporters, would have played smarter when the negotiations were still on status, they would have played the card "we are willing to offer Pristina the same level of autonomy and status as Pristina is willing to offer Kosovo's non-Albanian communities".

Instead, the contradictory message from Belgrade for years was that "we are 100% for negotiations on the future status of Kosovo, as long as Kosovo stays in Serbia".

Now, as Dodik and others have pointed out, it is already too late to reopen the issue of Kosovo's status, as recognised by the 69 countries that did. That's a done deal. However, the window is still open to secure Serb interests in Kosovo, and for why Kosovo is so important to Serbia and Serbs (apart from making Serbia look just a little bit larger on the map than the relatively small and landlocked geographical territory it is), but this window will be shrinking as time goes by and Belgrade continues to prioritize fighting political windmills and not the battles it could and should have good chances of winning.

EA

pre 13 godina

"...to those who are prone to quickly forget, that the policy of refusing talks and compromises is very dangerous,”

Absolutely nailed it! It was Serbia who approached the ICJ for an OPINION. Serbia pissed off with the ICJ OPINION wants to create chaos at the UN knowing that any resolution is NOT LEGAL binding.

EA

pre 13 godina

"....but she is polite enough not to point fingers at anybody. At the same time the ICJ decision cannot be ignored."
(bganon, 30 August 2010 13:49)

Bganon,

You know as we all know very well the when it comes "negotiations" the finger is point at Serbia. Serbia with its policies has created a lot of problems in the Balkans. The history has tought us that diplomacy doesn't work with Serbia. Bear in mind for example the mission of Richard Hollbrook to Milosevic, now the mission of German Foreign Minister to Belgrade...As George Bush said in Tirana few years ago "Enough is enough"...in other words why avoiding THE TRUTH?

EA

pre 13 godina

Mike and Bganon,

The article is at the end aiming at Serbia or pointing the finger on Serbia when stating ".... but that the EU wants Serbia to give up on a debate on Kosovo in the UN.

At present that is the issue. Serbia is trying to create a split between EU mainly the powerful countries and the weakest links ie Romania, Greece, Cyprus, Spain and Spain. That is the TRUTH. You know that we know that.

luigi

pre 13 godina

All this comments by the "cornered" ruling politicians of Serbia are all boring..the chief of the Main European country has been very clear about borders and status..Perhaps someone in the Tadic Governament will say that mr.Guido is equal to mr Druzinda but i don't think that Serbians are so stupid that they can't understand who decide and where are the money...

pss

pre 13 godina

Who really cares what the EU wants, or the US for that matter. This is a matter between Belgrade and Kosovo. Everyone else butt out. If the EU thinks Serbia is spinning their wheels, so be it. The only reason anyone wants to table this discussion is because they fear an adverse result.
(Patrik, 30 August 2010 14:43)
Lets see you say for the EU and US to butt out it is Pristina and Belgrades business which Belgrade is taking to the whole of the UN???
Or maybe you mean anyone supporting Kosovo should butt out.

Jovan

pre 13 godina

who cares what those EUSSR-bureaucrats want or not?

the UN is the one and only non-serbian institution that has the moral right to contribute in this matter at all.

but first and foremost it is Serbia.

Nenad

pre 13 godina

Mr. Bosnitch,

So you argue that Serbs should strive to show the world that non-Albanians continue to be cleansed and that Serbian soveignty should be vigorously defended.

Sounds great. Then what?

B92,

Please show us all how good and objective you are and don't omit my remarks.

Thanks.

kujon

pre 13 godina

THere wouldn't be a need for the UN if the ICJ would have made a ruling which substance. To say that merely 'declaring it' is not illegal the ICJ created a need for a more adamant ruling one way or the other.
Serbia is not trying or wanting chaos, they want clear and focused talks on status.

Zoran

pre 13 godina

i don't think that Serbians are so stupid that they can't understand who decide and where are the money...
(luigi, 30 August 2010 14:27)
--
We are not that stupid but we are that stubborn. That's why we have destroyed empires in the past and will continue to do so.

It was the Russians that helped us defeat the Ottomans. It was the US and Russians that helped us defeat the NAZIs and it will be the Russians and Chinese who will help us defeat the Euro-Atlantic empire. Hopefully, this time we'll do it diplomatically. ROFL! :)

miri

pre 13 godina

EA you should also know that diplomacy works with everybody, there are no exceptions. Provided proper guarantees are made, proper compromises made, carrots offered, sticks threatened a solution for Kosovo is possible.

Its a pity you don't believe that is the case.
(bganon, 30 August 2010 18:54)

Sure bganon, diplomacy is the best thing. We tried to tell you for decades but you refused to listened. We are ready to compromise over everything except status. How does this sound for a good diplomacy.

John Bosnitch

pre 13 godina

I'd like to start by thanking Sonja Liht for convincing me to go into politics in Serbia -- if she is an authority, then the field is WIDE open.

There's no doubt Serbia has missed many opportunities on the Kosovo issue, but those are merely details compared to the fundamental error of pursuing EU and NATO membership.

These two powerful external organizations shore up the marionette Tadic government against its own people with money and support from non-Serbian sources. But the government is forced to follow an openly anti-self-sufficiency policy to please our enemies in return for their support.

This weakness is so obvious that it should long ago have become the main target of a serious opposition group. If just one reasonable party were to categorically reject both the EU and NATO, it could win proportional representation seats in parliament and hold the balance of power in a legislature where barely ten seats determines the government.

It is not borrowed money nor foreign paymasters that are needed to keep Kosovo. What is needed is transparent honesty and patriotism.

Given Ms Liht's well-known preference for taking her banquets at the trough of foreign funding, one could not have expected her to come up with anything other than to advise that the entire nation do the same. Fortunately, Sonja Liht's tendencies are not representative of the Serbian public.

Contrary to compromising on core values and national sovereignty, a successful Kosovo solution can only be found in telling the world the truth about the continuing ethnic cleansing of non-Albanians from Kosovo, and stubbornly defending the Serbian nation's sovereign right to remain on its own land in its full multi-ethnic character.

Thank you for your totally inappropriate advice Ms Liht. Now please go back to Mr Soros and give him this message: "It's no use, the Serbs won't fall for it."

Sincerely,

John Bosnitch
Journalist
john.b@imcnews.com

highduke

pre 13 godina

Oh yeah, 'Tadic will recognize Kosovo' right Albanians? Do I need to explain why Sonja Liht has credibility others in our govt lack? Tadic has the West on its knees in diplomatic fear. Even the most self-deluded pro-UDI fanatic can see it: NO new recognitions, NO unilateral resolutions, NO UN and NO KFOR soon either.

pss

pre 13 godina

Well, EU, think about this: maybe next time Russia does not want a UN debate about Georgia. How will you, the EU, respond then?

No double standards please!
(Ron, 30 August 2010 15:06)
Has there ever been a UNGA debate on Georgia, or have they all been confined to the UNSC where the EU says that any debate should remain?
NO double standards please! or does this not apply to Serbian posters.

bganon

pre 13 godina

EA how you can tie in a statement directed towards the Kosovo Albanian position congratulating it and linking that particular statement to the ICJ decision mystifies me.

Sonja Licht is saying that talks / negotitations should take place but she is polite enough not to point fingers at anybody. At the same time the ICJ decision cannot be ignored.

Mike

pre 13 godina

EA, I have to share the same level of confusion towards your comment as bganon. How can you take the quote

"...to those who are prone to quickly forget, that the policy of refusing talks and compromises is very dangerous,”

and then blame Serbia for it when the very article writes about voices within the EU wanting to circumvent any debate in the UN? Belgrade has been more than willing to cooperate and find a compromise solution. Key Western powers have been the ones most adamant in quashing any debate, stopping the new resolution, and ramming through ultimatums while refusing to acknowledge the significant opposition to its policies in Kosovo throughout the world. You're not making any sense. You made even less sense in your reply to bganon.

Zoran

pre 13 godina

“When we recall our recent past, in which inflexibility and intransigence for compromise made easier the biggest persecutions of Serbs from Croatia and from Kosovo...” Liht told Belgrade daily Blic.
--
Is that how they describe genocide? "persecution"?

In fact, we have always called for negotiations, however, we have only ever been offered ultimatums. The Rambo-uillet ultimatum being just one example.

Ron

pre 13 godina

Wow, I thought the EU wanted to promote international law and cooperation. Well, for me an UDI really isn't a good example of cooperation.

Well, EU, think about this: maybe next time Russia does not want a UN debate about Georgia. How will you, the EU, respond then?

No double standards please!

Patrik

pre 13 godina

Who really cares what the EU wants, or the US for that matter. This is a matter between Belgrade and Kosovo. Everyone else butt out. If the EU thinks Serbia is spinning their wheels, so be it. The only reason anyone wants to table this discussion is because they fear an adverse result.

doodah

pre 13 godina

I'd like to start by thanking Sonja Liht for convincing me to go into politics in Serbia -- if she is an authority, then the field is WIDE open.

."

Sincerely,

John Bosnitch
Journalist
john.b@imcnews.com
(John Bosnitch, 30 August 2010 14:39)
Going into politics in Serbia sounds appropriate, very appropriate.

Sreten

pre 13 godina

First, I don't even see a problem with the part that is saying Unilateral declaration is not acceptable, but negotiated solution should be find.
One has to wonder...
To hear the negative chorus of voices from Pristina - including the Albanians and the representatives of the Quint (the US, UK, Italy, France and Germany and including the EU and NATO) - it would appear that a fully negotiated settlement for Kosovo status would be the worst possible outcome. They all have vigorously rejected Serbia's suggestion of negotiations after the ICJ decision on Kosovo independence . They repeadeatly said that negotiations are out of the question as issue of Kosovo status is closed. Why - in the 21st Century and the heart of Europe - are the leading Western democracies arrayed against a negotiated final status agreement?
I'm not saying that negotiations would lead to solution, but what is so wrong with negotiations anyway? Negotiations are not the enemy. Simple insistence on there being nothing to negotiate cannot be the Quint's only response. I fail to see why is talking about something bad? What's so wrong with peace, dialogue and understanding?
If you are looking for someone who avoids dialogue it's not hard to find....
German Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle didn't say anything new - issue is closed, borders are drawn, etc. etc. with stern warnings to Serbia that "cooperation is at the core of European values". There he talks about need for Serbia's cooperation, of course, if it is truly European value, it's really well hidden. I mean, this is the side that continuously refused dialogue, supported UNILATERAL declarations, is now opposed to UN debate, etc.
Cooperation?
I'll check the dictionary, maybe I don't understand meaning of the world well...
So, they don't want UN debate now?
From late John F. Kennedy's last speech
"...nobody should fear public scrutiny. For from that scrutiny comes understanding; and from that understanding comes support or opposition. And both are necessary for democracy."

and,

"Without debate, without criticism, no Administration and no country can succeed--and no republic can survive. That is why the Athenian lawmaker Solon decreed it a crime for any citizen to shrink from controversy."

bganon

pre 13 godina

EA I see so your previous response to me was incorrect. Why didn't you just say you quoted the wrong bit?

I know Licht's position well, her point was criticising the previous position adopted by Milosevic who refused to engage in serious negotiations with Albanians. Certain western countries that are obstructing potential negotiations now and Kosovo Albanian politicians have Milosevic's absolutist position today. That is something I have pointed out before.

The point you are trying to make is at the beginning, not the end and it says Licht believes that a compromise with the EU is possible.

EA you should also know that diplomacy works with everybody, there are no exceptions. Provided proper guarantees are made, proper compromises made, carrots offered, sticks threatened a solution for Kosovo is possible.

Its a pity you don't believe that is the case.

Danilo

pre 13 godina

Sound and fury over nothing.

You guys don't seem to realize (and don't WANT to realize) that the UNGA can't do anything except recommend something to the Security Council.

Seeing as the USA has a permanent seat on the UNSC, this issue isn't going anywhere, ever.

"Dislike" this all you want, it doesn't make it any less true

EA

pre 13 godina

Bganon,

"...diplomacy works with everybody, there are no exceptions. Provided proper guarantees are made, proper compromises made, carrots offered, sticks threatened a solution for Kosovo is possible."

Can you tell us what West was trying to do when talking to Serbia before the conflict started in former Yugoslavia? Serbia of Milloshevic never took seriously the West. Don't you agree? He thought he could get away with ethnic cleansing in Kosovo and "finish off the Albanians". I personally think Serbia is paying the price for Milloshevic's actions in former Yugoslavia. You talk about "proper compromises" made, "carrots offered, sticks threatened a solution" for Kosovo...I agree in principle but the problem between Serbs and Albanians is that what is "proper" for Serbs is "improper" for the Albanians and other way around. That is why President Ahtisari was asked to help to find a solution to Kosovo issue. When it comes "compromise solution" (Serbian favorite slogan), Serbia has set "red lines". Funny enough Serbia is not in a position to set "red lines" when it comes to Kosovo. Now Serbia has come out unilaterally with a draft resolution about Kosovo after the ICJ has given its OPINION. West is not happy...we had German Foreign Minister "reminding" Serbia that the Kosovo independence is done....William Hague is following up now I leave it to you to understand whether they are offering carrots or sticks or both to Serbia

Luke Buyenovich

pre 13 godina

"EU doesn't want UN Kosovo debate"The obvious reason is EU and their fake Kosovo State would lose.Serbia for its just cause should seek support in in all International Organizations certainly, including UNGA.However,final decision in regard to Kosovo status will be made by UNSC not EU.Germany, dominant State in EU their foreign Minister Mr. Westerwelle stated the final borders of Southeastern Europe are already drawn in Brussels.Not so fast "Mr.Ribbentrop" Serbs may not agreed with your new map.As for ICJ opinion its just that, non binding opinion which did not change anything on the ground in Kosovo.Kosovo international borders are in Serbian hands as stipulated in UN resolution 1244.ICJ can not change that resolution,it should be clear to everybody,As for negotiations Serbs should negotiate in good faith with everybody including Kosovo Albanians

balcanico

pre 13 godina

Sreten:

There is nothing wrong with negotiations per se, just that the table has turned.

For years, Belgrade seemed willing to negotiate/trade on the rights of non-Albanian citizens in Kosovo, but refused out-of-hand the question of Kosovo independence. Pristina, on the other hand, was willing, or rather pressured, to accept devolving unprecedented levels of autonomy and rights to minoritygroups and areas, as long as independence would also be a status option for the negotiations. Obviously, that is no longer the case for Pristina, nor Belgrade.

If Belgrade, and its supporters, would have played smarter when the negotiations were still on status, they would have played the card "we are willing to offer Pristina the same level of autonomy and status as Pristina is willing to offer Kosovo's non-Albanian communities".

Instead, the contradictory message from Belgrade for years was that "we are 100% for negotiations on the future status of Kosovo, as long as Kosovo stays in Serbia".

Now, as Dodik and others have pointed out, it is already too late to reopen the issue of Kosovo's status, as recognised by the 69 countries that did. That's a done deal. However, the window is still open to secure Serb interests in Kosovo, and for why Kosovo is so important to Serbia and Serbs (apart from making Serbia look just a little bit larger on the map than the relatively small and landlocked geographical territory it is), but this window will be shrinking as time goes by and Belgrade continues to prioritize fighting political windmills and not the battles it could and should have good chances of winning.

bganon

pre 13 godina

EA you want to go back to 1989? The story in 1989 was very different then and you are mistaken in thinking that the west's position has anything to do with 1989. They couldn't care less. And to be honest they couldn't care less about 1999 either.

Let me tell you what they are concerned about - not climbing down from the current policy on Kosovo because it would be bad for prestige. Above all they are concerned about the Kosovo Albanian population turning against them, that is what they really mean when they talk about regional stability.

You want to believe that this is some kind of moral justice or about some western countries being disgusted with Milosevic's policies and by extension Tadic's insistence that Serbia doesn't give up on Kosovo? Those are such minor factors. Policies are maintained for practical reasons and reasons of interest.

And I disagree with you that Serbia is not in a position to set red lines. For as long as there is a Serbian majority in parts of Kosovo there is a practical reason for setting red lines. Even if there wasn't a Serbian majority in Kosovo, Serbia could still set a red line, although it might be unrealistic to do so. Do you still not understand that this is a bargaining position and that both the red lines of two entities negotiating are actually liable to alterations? Like I said the proper guarantees, threats, carrots etc. Thats how a deal is done.

William Hague was invited to Belgrade by Tadic some time ago actually. Its a pity that there was nothing concrete to agree upon, but no doubt the meeting was useful in clarifying positions.