Bosnian PM: Kosovo challenge for RS

HB,

It can be 'cut-off' and then what?

What are you implying? Nobody wants another war.

Are you so anxious for another ass-whopping? Why?

Let me ask you a question. . .why is it that the Croatians from Croatia, the muslims from Bosnia and the Albanians from Kosovo can illegally and violently separate from Yugoslavia and Serbia, respectively, yet the Serbians from each of these regions -- that have inhabited those lands for centuries, that have suffered unspeakable persecution from those same peoples once they achieved independence from their Nazi allies during WWII -- cannot?

If the muslims of Bosnia can separate from Yugoslavia then the Serbs of Bosnia can separate from the muslims, seems only fair, right?

So why the double standards?

'He said that with a confirmation of Kosovo’s independence, the UN would “make the first move towards the road to independence for the Republic of Srpska (RS) and many other states that want independence.”

Well said Mr. Spiric. The right to self determination has been given to all ethnic groups in former Yugoslavia, EXCEPT to Serbs. This is an anti-Serb German policy which was adopted by the rest of Europe and the US, because they forget, and don't stand by their allies like the Germans do. I'm glad the leaders of Republika Srpska are speaking up. For those of you who think Bosnia can remain together, you need to wake up and get your heads out of the sand. It has been doomed since its inception.
Republika Srpska is already de facto independent, and it will be official in the coming years. I expect Russia will be the first country to recognize Republika Srpska, and then the rest of the world will follow.
Cheers!!

RS will never become independent regardless what happens in Kosova. RS is surrounded on all sides and can easily be cut off from Serbia Proper within 24 hours. Dodik and his henchman better be very careful with their words. What gives a minority the right to just breakaway and form a soverign state. Maybe the Hungarian-Croat alliance in Vojvodina should breakaway or why not the Bosniaks in SW Serbia or the Bulgarians in Eastern Serbia. Can you see where I'm going with this.....

Sounds like a great idea to me!

There is no doubt in my mind that the former Yugoslav republics should all be homogeneous states.

What gives a minority the right to just breakaway and form a soverign state.

(HB, 17 August 2010, 14:34)

I think this is precisely the question Serbs are asking about Kosovo.

Maybe the Hungarian-Croat alliance in Vojvodina should breakaway or why not the Bosniaks in SW Serbia or the Bulgarians in Eastern Serbia. Can you see where I'm going with this.....
(HB, 17 August 2010 14:34)

Yes indeed, why not the Serbs in Kosovo, Albanians in Macedonia & RS breakaway too. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander :)

There is no way for RS!

BiH will never allow this.

Serbia should recognize Kosovo, leave its friend Russia and join EU and NATO!

This is the right way!

so...Kosovo can but RS arent allowed to? I wonder if anyone can give me a clear and well reasoned set of criteria by which we can all easily understand when seccession is allowed and when it is not because I find myself a little confused by what appears to be gross inconsistencies surrounding this issue. I thought 1244 allowed for Kosovo to remain as part of Serbia and that countries had the right to defend their sovereign borders. However it now seems to me that anyone can claim independance as long as they meet the criteria of assisting with the alterior motives of a so called super power. Maybe I am wrong though?

There is no way for RS!

BiH will never allow this.

Serbia should recognize Kosovo, leave its friend Russia and join EU and NATO!

This is the right way!
(NATO, 17 August 2010 14:02)

Why not? If you lot can break away from Belgrade why cant the RS? and why not Albanians of Macedonia too.

Talk is cheap. If you Serbs think that RS should be independent then declare independence.What is stopping you? Instead of whining about Kosovo just go ahead and declare independence.Remember though that Tadic said that Serbia respects international law and the territorial integrity of Bosnia.

HB,

Then what gives the Albanians in Kosovo the right to break away from the state of Serbia?

By the way: The Hague Verdicts states that everyone is totally free to proclaim independence. So why are only friends of the US allowed to do that?

By the way: The Hague Verdicts states that everyone is totally free to proclaim independence. So why are only friends of the US allowed to do that?
(Ron, 17 August 2010 15:53)

Wrong!

The ICJ assessed that the UN Res. 1244 doesn`t mention any prohibition for independence. The UN Res. 787, however, clearly forbids RS to call for secession, which has been stated in the ICJ case, as well. Not mentioning the fact that breaching Dayton would mean breaching a peace treaty. RS has signed to stay in Bosnia and cannot back out now. End of the story.

"A new state – “Republika Srpska” - is shortly to be born in South Eastern Europe"

"Republika Srpska now receives investment from Eastern Europe and Russia"

"The State Police are small in number and ethnically divided and no match for Dodik’s RS Police. Bosnia has no army of substance."

"On the RS’s frontiers with Serbia, borders are almost invisible."

"the overwhelming aim must be to prevent a second Bosnian war"

"The least bad option is to preside over Bosnia’s inevitable gradual disintegration"
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/comment/23797/

AMEN!

"RS is surrounded on all sides and can easily be cut off from Serbia Proper within 24 hours"

...just as they managed to cut them off in 3 years of war.

what a nonsense, dream on my friend, dream on.

no, the Serbs will liberate their occupied southern province and the bosnian Serbs will stay in close connection to Serbia.

every ( quite childish )speculation like those mentioned above is only wishful thinking of some desperate Serbia-haters...

"RS will never become independent"
HB

Oh it will! Sooner then you think. None of our dear neighbours have the guts to attack Serbs. Americans and Europeans don't want more refugees so they will do what they can to prevent a war.

Freedom for Republika Srpska!

If RS dares to violate the peace treaty then the garantators of Dayton are forced to restore order in Banja Luka. 24h after the illegal and inmoral declaration the Croatian army would be in Banja Luka. RS would be abolished, and Dodik apprehanded, charged for war mongery and violation of a treaty. Velika Serbia would finally end on the garbage of human history.

Amen

"Yes indeed, why not the Serbs in Kosovo, Albanians in Macedonia & RS breakaway too. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander :)
(Niall O'Doherty, 17 August 2010 15:29)"

Yeh, and why not the Irish, why don't they split away from Britain (oops, I forgot, they already have, so yeh, as they say, What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander), and then the Scots, then the Welsh, oh where will it all end. Time to restore a bit of law and order in the British isles don't you think Niall?

If RS dares to violate the peace treaty then the garantators of Dayton are forced to restore order in Banja Luka. 24h after the illegal and inmoral declaration the Croatian army would be in Banja Luka. RS would be abolished, and Dodik apprehanded, charged for war mongery and violation of a treaty. Velika Serbia would finally end on the garbage of human history.

Amen
(JohnC., 17 August 2010 20:38)

Relax Gjon, relax buddy. The only people threatening to violate the Dayton Agreement which guarantees Bosnia's sovereignty is Sarajevo and their NATO-EU masters. Dodik and the RS have repeatedly stated their desire to uphold the Dayton Agreement and Bosnia's territorial integrity and sovereignty. Dodik has said that he will hold a referendum in RS to strenghten Dayton.

I think you got the wrong end of the stick as usual.

The Croatian army will be going nowhere.

Have a nice day :)

Yeh, and why not the Irish, why don't they split away from Britain (oops, I forgot, they already have, so yeh, as they say, What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander), and then the Scots, then the Welsh, oh where will it all end. Time to restore a bit of law and order in the British isles don't you think Niall?
(DimTuc, 17 August 2010 18:27)

Absolutley :) The sovereign integrity of all nation states must be respected Serbia, Bi-H and the UK included.

Time for talking.

"Americans and Europeans don't want more refugees so they will do what they can to prevent a war. "
(Mikael C, 17 August 2010 17:42)

You are the best my man..
So your strategy would be to attack America and Europe with refugees?!?!
I thought we (Balkan people) were already doing that, aren't we already doing that?

Didn't a guy back in 1999 try to do that?

Republika Srpska will wait for the the west to make the first move and try to dismantle it as we all know it will. When the West and Muslims break Dayton first, then there's no need for the Serbs to obey it, and they will daclare independence. If the Croats have a brain they shouldn't fight this but help them as its a step closer to them achieving freedom from Muslim rule.

And before you start the claims that this describes the Serbs in Kosovo, remember the many, many posts you have made speaking of how the Serbs control the north and Gracanica!
(freedom, 18 August 2010 10:44)

Which account for only about 15 % of Kosovo's land mass...

So your point is?

John C - Maybe you could get one of your kids to read UNSCR 1244 for you, then they can read the entire ICJ verdict, and then finally they can tell you what they ACTUALLY state. Learn to read or don't bother wasting our time in this forum with your dreamy, fantasising waffle.

Let me show you - "Ron - "The Hague Verdicts states that everyone is totally free to proclaim independence."" CORRECT. See Paragraph 84 http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/141/15987.pdf?PHPSESSID=5128a394cbda07f581f3f0daead7fb20
Crashed and burned.

Dim Tuc - That's exactly what seems to be happening (with the exception of Wales), but in a much more civilised fashion than the Balkans.

In the end we'll all be border-less EU colonies. Sovereignty under EU means having a sign that says welcome to X (that's it).
(RKS, 17 August 2010 20:37)

Believe it or not, I agree with you, RKS. If this will work it needs to happen NOW instead of allowing the world powers to play modern-day slave masters who decide everything from Brussels, Washington, etc.

After all, should not we be past the issues of borders in the globalized 21st century?

Look at all these threats, just declare your DOI and be quiet.

In the end we'll all be border-less EU colonies. Sovereignty under EU means having a sign that says welcome to X (that's it).

Yugoslavia sleepwalked into war because powerful nationalist leaders persuaded everyday citizens to view each other as potential enemies. Nowhere moreso than in Bosnia & Herzegovina , the most diverse of all the republics.

After the chaos, catastrophe and horror of the wars, it seems that no lessons have been learned – well it would be if you believed that postings on this site – from all sides – represented ordinary citizens. I’m an optimist and believe that most people across all former Yugo states strive for peace and want to see each other as potential friends and allies. Let’s hear more from those people, rather than some of the petty haters that populate this site.

Peace and respect to all

GRUK

I think this is precisely the question Serbs are asking about Kosovo.
(Jason, 17 August 2010 15:11)
And the answer is just being a minority does not but being a "documented" oppressed minority and victims of ethnic cleansing would.
And before you start the claims that this describes the Serbs in Kosovo, remember the many, many posts you have made speaking of how the Serbs control the north and Gracanica!

There is no way for RS!

BiH will never allow this.

Serbia should recognize Kosovo, leave its friend Russia and join EU and NATO!

This is the right way!

RS will never become independent regardless what happens in Kosova. RS is surrounded on all sides and can easily be cut off from Serbia Proper within 24 hours. Dodik and his henchman better be very careful with their words. What gives a minority the right to just breakaway and form a soverign state. Maybe the Hungarian-Croat alliance in Vojvodina should breakaway or why not the Bosniaks in SW Serbia or the Bulgarians in Eastern Serbia. Can you see where I'm going with this.....

HB,

It can be 'cut-off' and then what?

What are you implying? Nobody wants another war.

Are you so anxious for another ass-whopping? Why?

Let me ask you a question. . .why is it that the Croatians from Croatia, the muslims from Bosnia and the Albanians from Kosovo can illegally and violently separate from Yugoslavia and Serbia, respectively, yet the Serbians from each of these regions -- that have inhabited those lands for centuries, that have suffered unspeakable persecution from those same peoples once they achieved independence from their Nazi allies during WWII -- cannot?

If the muslims of Bosnia can separate from Yugoslavia then the Serbs of Bosnia can separate from the muslims, seems only fair, right?

So why the double standards?

'He said that with a confirmation of Kosovo’s independence, the UN would “make the first move towards the road to independence for the Republic of Srpska (RS) and many other states that want independence.”

Well said Mr. Spiric. The right to self determination has been given to all ethnic groups in former Yugoslavia, EXCEPT to Serbs. This is an anti-Serb German policy which was adopted by the rest of Europe and the US, because they forget, and don't stand by their allies like the Germans do. I'm glad the leaders of Republika Srpska are speaking up. For those of you who think Bosnia can remain together, you need to wake up and get your heads out of the sand. It has been doomed since its inception.
Republika Srpska is already de facto independent, and it will be official in the coming years. I expect Russia will be the first country to recognize Republika Srpska, and then the rest of the world will follow.
Cheers!!

HB,

Then what gives the Albanians in Kosovo the right to break away from the state of Serbia?

By the way: The Hague Verdicts states that everyone is totally free to proclaim independence. So why are only friends of the US allowed to do that?

"RS will never become independent"
HB

Oh it will! Sooner then you think. None of our dear neighbours have the guts to attack Serbs. Americans and Europeans don't want more refugees so they will do what they can to prevent a war.

Freedom for Republika Srpska!

What gives a minority the right to just breakaway and form a soverign state.

(HB, 17 August 2010, 14:34)

I think this is precisely the question Serbs are asking about Kosovo.

"A new state – “Republika Srpska” - is shortly to be born in South Eastern Europe"

"Republika Srpska now receives investment from Eastern Europe and Russia"

"The State Police are small in number and ethnically divided and no match for Dodik’s RS Police. Bosnia has no army of substance."

"On the RS’s frontiers with Serbia, borders are almost invisible."

"the overwhelming aim must be to prevent a second Bosnian war"

"The least bad option is to preside over Bosnia’s inevitable gradual disintegration"
http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/main/comment/23797/

AMEN!

"RS is surrounded on all sides and can easily be cut off from Serbia Proper within 24 hours"

...just as they managed to cut them off in 3 years of war.

what a nonsense, dream on my friend, dream on.

no, the Serbs will liberate their occupied southern province and the bosnian Serbs will stay in close connection to Serbia.

every ( quite childish )speculation like those mentioned above is only wishful thinking of some desperate Serbia-haters...

Sounds like a great idea to me!

There is no doubt in my mind that the former Yugoslav republics should all be homogeneous states.

"Yes indeed, why not the Serbs in Kosovo, Albanians in Macedonia & RS breakaway too. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander :)
(Niall O'Doherty, 17 August 2010 15:29)"

Yeh, and why not the Irish, why don't they split away from Britain (oops, I forgot, they already have, so yeh, as they say, What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander), and then the Scots, then the Welsh, oh where will it all end. Time to restore a bit of law and order in the British isles don't you think Niall?

There is no way for RS!

BiH will never allow this.

Serbia should recognize Kosovo, leave its friend Russia and join EU and NATO!

This is the right way!
(NATO, 17 August 2010 14:02)

Why not? If you lot can break away from Belgrade why cant the RS? and why not Albanians of Macedonia too.

By the way: The Hague Verdicts states that everyone is totally free to proclaim independence. So why are only friends of the US allowed to do that?
(Ron, 17 August 2010 15:53)

Wrong!

The ICJ assessed that the UN Res. 1244 doesn`t mention any prohibition for independence. The UN Res. 787, however, clearly forbids RS to call for secession, which has been stated in the ICJ case, as well. Not mentioning the fact that breaching Dayton would mean breaching a peace treaty. RS has signed to stay in Bosnia and cannot back out now. End of the story.

Talk is cheap. If you Serbs think that RS should be independent then declare independence.What is stopping you? Instead of whining about Kosovo just go ahead and declare independence.Remember though that Tadic said that Serbia respects international law and the territorial integrity of Bosnia.

so...Kosovo can but RS arent allowed to? I wonder if anyone can give me a clear and well reasoned set of criteria by which we can all easily understand when seccession is allowed and when it is not because I find myself a little confused by what appears to be gross inconsistencies surrounding this issue. I thought 1244 allowed for Kosovo to remain as part of Serbia and that countries had the right to defend their sovereign borders. However it now seems to me that anyone can claim independance as long as they meet the criteria of assisting with the alterior motives of a so called super power. Maybe I am wrong though?

If RS dares to violate the peace treaty then the garantators of Dayton are forced to restore order in Banja Luka. 24h after the illegal and inmoral declaration the Croatian army would be in Banja Luka. RS would be abolished, and Dodik apprehanded, charged for war mongery and violation of a treaty. Velika Serbia would finally end on the garbage of human history.

Amen

Maybe the Hungarian-Croat alliance in Vojvodina should breakaway or why not the Bosniaks in SW Serbia or the Bulgarians in Eastern Serbia. Can you see where I'm going with this.....
(HB, 17 August 2010 14:34)

Yes indeed, why not the Serbs in Kosovo, Albanians in Macedonia & RS breakaway too. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander :)

Yeh, and why not the Irish, why don't they split away from Britain (oops, I forgot, they already have, so yeh, as they say, What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander), and then the Scots, then the Welsh, oh where will it all end. Time to restore a bit of law and order in the British isles don't you think Niall?
(DimTuc, 17 August 2010 18:27)

Absolutley :) The sovereign integrity of all nation states must be respected Serbia, Bi-H and the UK included.

Time for talking.

I think this is precisely the question Serbs are asking about Kosovo.
(Jason, 17 August 2010 15:11)
And the answer is just being a minority does not but being a "documented" oppressed minority and victims of ethnic cleansing would.
And before you start the claims that this describes the Serbs in Kosovo, remember the many, many posts you have made speaking of how the Serbs control the north and Gracanica!

"Americans and Europeans don't want more refugees so they will do what they can to prevent a war. "
(Mikael C, 17 August 2010 17:42)

You are the best my man..
So your strategy would be to attack America and Europe with refugees?!?!
I thought we (Balkan people) were already doing that, aren't we already doing that?

Didn't a guy back in 1999 try to do that?

John C - Maybe you could get one of your kids to read UNSCR 1244 for you, then they can read the entire ICJ verdict, and then finally they can tell you what they ACTUALLY state. Learn to read or don't bother wasting our time in this forum with your dreamy, fantasising waffle.

Let me show you - "Ron - "The Hague Verdicts states that everyone is totally free to proclaim independence."" CORRECT. See Paragraph 84 http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/141/15987.pdf?PHPSESSID=5128a394cbda07f581f3f0daead7fb20
Crashed and burned.

Dim Tuc - That's exactly what seems to be happening (with the exception of Wales), but in a much more civilised fashion than the Balkans.

Look at all these threats, just declare your DOI and be quiet.

In the end we'll all be border-less EU colonies. Sovereignty under EU means having a sign that says welcome to X (that's it).

Republika Srpska will wait for the the west to make the first move and try to dismantle it as we all know it will. When the West and Muslims break Dayton first, then there's no need for the Serbs to obey it, and they will daclare independence. If the Croats have a brain they shouldn't fight this but help them as its a step closer to them achieving freedom from Muslim rule.

If RS dares to violate the peace treaty then the garantators of Dayton are forced to restore order in Banja Luka. 24h after the illegal and inmoral declaration the Croatian army would be in Banja Luka. RS would be abolished, and Dodik apprehanded, charged for war mongery and violation of a treaty. Velika Serbia would finally end on the garbage of human history.

Amen
(JohnC., 17 August 2010 20:38)

Relax Gjon, relax buddy. The only people threatening to violate the Dayton Agreement which guarantees Bosnia's sovereignty is Sarajevo and their NATO-EU masters. Dodik and the RS have repeatedly stated their desire to uphold the Dayton Agreement and Bosnia's territorial integrity and sovereignty. Dodik has said that he will hold a referendum in RS to strenghten Dayton.

I think you got the wrong end of the stick as usual.

The Croatian army will be going nowhere.

Have a nice day :)

In the end we'll all be border-less EU colonies. Sovereignty under EU means having a sign that says welcome to X (that's it).
(RKS, 17 August 2010 20:37)

Believe it or not, I agree with you, RKS. If this will work it needs to happen NOW instead of allowing the world powers to play modern-day slave masters who decide everything from Brussels, Washington, etc.

After all, should not we be past the issues of borders in the globalized 21st century?

And before you start the claims that this describes the Serbs in Kosovo, remember the many, many posts you have made speaking of how the Serbs control the north and Gracanica!
(freedom, 18 August 2010 10:44)

Which account for only about 15 % of Kosovo's land mass...

So your point is?

Yugoslavia sleepwalked into war because powerful nationalist leaders persuaded everyday citizens to view each other as potential enemies. Nowhere moreso than in Bosnia & Herzegovina , the most diverse of all the republics.

After the chaos, catastrophe and horror of the wars, it seems that no lessons have been learned – well it would be if you believed that postings on this site – from all sides – represented ordinary citizens. I’m an optimist and believe that most people across all former Yugo states strive for peace and want to see each other as potential friends and allies. Let’s hear more from those people, rather than some of the petty haters that populate this site.

Peace and respect to all

GRUK