Concern over monuments in Kosovo

I think is time to run a DNA on these chrches and prove once and for all the truth, that these chrches were converted to Orthodox one from Catholic Albanian churches.
I am sure this could be achieved, by archelogists (independent ones).

(Albion, 16 August 2010, 17:47)

Uh, Albion buddy... have you ever heard of an independent body called UNESCO? They contradict your little theory.

"I think is time to run a DNA on these chrches and prove once and for all the truth, that these chrches were converted to Orthodox one from Catholic Albanian churches."

Albion

Is that why you burned them down? How many churchers have albanians destroyed? 100? 200?
If they were yours to begin with I would doubt albanians would desecrate them like they have done.

There is an famous albanian saying: "What is yours today will be mine tomorrow."

I think is time to run a DNA on these chrches and prove once and for all the truth, that these chrches were converted to Orthodox one from Catholic Albanian churches.
I am sure this could be achieved, by archelogists (independent ones).
By the way, this is a weak card played by the Serbian government. Asking for serbian personel to guard the churches is a no no, that will never happen, It is wishful thinking. That would never happen, not in a million years.
Serbian troops will never set a foot in Kosova soil. That issue is dead.
(Albion, 16 August 2010, 17:47)

Albion, I really hope you are a Serb trying to make Albanians look stupid, because this post of yours is by far the most ridiculous one I have seen in a long, long time.

Converted Catholic churches? Are you kidding me?

Buah-ha-ha-ha-haaaaa!!!

I guessing we can't blame Albion for his comments.

I am guessing he is a kid in Kosovo who trusts The Kosovo Report and other Albanian media to tell him the truth.

Has anyone read Kosovo Report. I was shocked at the misinformation, redesigning of history and outright racist hatred directed at the Serbian community.

"I think is time to run a DNA on these chrches" (Albion)

-- And how the Hell do you get DNA from inorganic substances?

"I am sure this could be achieved, by archelogists (independent ones)." (Albion)

-- Lots of them have. Over the past 60+ years. Serbian, German, Greek, Russian, French, Bulgarian, American, Italian, etc. Nobody buys this silly theory of yours except possibly for the pseudo-academics at the Institute of Albanological Studies in Pristina (or whatever its called).

I think is time to run a DNA on these chrches and prove once and for all the truth, that these chrches were converted to Orthodox one from Catholic Albanian churches.
I am sure this could be achieved, by archelogists (independent ones).
By the way, this is a weak card played by the Serbian government. Asking for serbian personel to guard the churches is a no no, that will never happen, It is wishful thinking. That would never happen, not in a million years.
Serbian troops will never set a foot in Kosova soil. That issue is dead.

Quote: "By the DNA of churches I imagine Albion meant the DNA of people buried there"

Oh-kuku, this guy lives on the moon. Now religion is a biologically determined marker! In regard to many comments, I never saw such amount of nonsense about theory and practice of writing history. No offense, but it might IMHO you albanians have really no clue of what history and the process of writing history are. And basically it means that when you talk about history you MUST forget nationalism. History is non-national. Its dimension goes beyond the narrow limits of today's political situation. Buddies, open some books (some, not your favorite one) written by third parts' scholars (neither serbs nor albos) and get a mind open of the history of this territory. And you will ses that those churches have been orthodox for centuries so they are orhotodox today. Most of the catholic churches in western europe were build on ancient pagan temples. Does this mean that vatican must return their religious sites to kelts and latins. Please play with whatever you want but don't touch the history and the cultural identity of a people. Don't you have a limit? Really you feel no shame?

"Uh, Albion buddy... have you ever heard of an independent body called UNESCO? They contradict your little theory.
(Jason, 16 August 2010 18:02) "

There are Serbs on the committee to lobby for exactly this position. They may be right, but were any opposing views or data ever examined?

As for DNA, this is what's going to ultimately settle the question of who's from where. By the DNA of churches I imagine Albion meant the DNA of people buried there. There are plenty of early-Christian churches in Albania (a major basilica at Butrint, for example) so it's not as though the medieval Serb churches were the first in the Balkans.

"Albion, I really hope you are a Serb trying to make Albanians look stupid, because this post of yours is by far the most ridiculous one I have seen in a long, long time.

Converted Catholic churches? Are you kidding me?

Buah-ha-ha-ha-haaaaa!!!
Psuedo-Albanian"


Don't worry! In due time the true original identity of many, many Orthodox churches in Kosovo will be identified.

Don't worry! In due time the true original identity of many, many Orthodox churches in Kosovo will be identified.
(metrod, 16 August 2010 20:34)
==========================

It already has. What proof could you possibly offer to the contrary?
Please do give us an example of some.

So you mean that all those Serbian Orthodox churches in Kosovo were really Albanian?!
WOW!!
I'm sure that one day Albanians will prove that Moses, Jesus and Buddha were also Albanian!

Oh wait, they already have! :-)

Host, just because you put empty phrases such as no offense, doesn't mean you're not being offensive.
Also the churches being orthodox don't necessarily point only to a specific ethnicity. Like you said religion isn't the sole determinant of biology or history for that matter. Being part orthodox myself (whatever that means) I am sure you can believe me when I say that I am neither Serb nor Greek. Hence there could have very well been Orthodox Churches belonging to Albanian communities in Kosova. For example communities from Korca several centuries ago lived in Kosova. Not only that but they are Orthodox. That is one example. Not only that but you can today go to the Arberesh communities in Italy and notice that even though they fall under the authority of Vatican they follow Orthodox rites; they are Catholics following Orthodox rites and their churches are no different from an orthodox Church in Serbia, Kosova, or Albania. So having said that even the fact that majority of Kosova Albanians prior to the Ottomans where under the Vatican doesn't necessarily mean they followed the rites that the Vatican followed. The best example of the existence of Catholic churches following Orthodox rites are the Arberesh Communities of Italy. These are Albanians that fled after the death of Scanderbeg, in the 15th century.

So to sum up a church being an orthodox church doesn't necessarily mean a Serb church at all times. Sure those that are there today are mostly Serb; but that is not to say that here and there there wasn't any Albanian Orthodox church or that as the influence over the cities in Kosova has changed through history that not a single church fell from Serb hands to Albanian hands and vice versa and they never re-used it.

So to sum up a church being an orthodox church doesn't necessarily mean a Serb church at all times. Sure those that are there today are mostly Serb; but that is not to say that here and there there wasn't any Albanian Orthodox church or that as the influence over the cities in Kosova has changed through history that not a single church fell from Serb hands to Albanian hands and vice versa and they never re-used it.
(johny, 18 August 2010 02:30)
===========================

Serbs can prove ownership of all their churches, can Albanians?
If you can prove that a particular Orthodox church was Albanian then you can have it. Until then, please leave our culture and history alone. You have stolen enough.

The complicated combinations of ethnicities/beliefs you mentioned is more than likely in territories where movements of people were/are intense at times. Good scholars – those who write I THINK IT MAY BE DOCUMENTED THAT and not I HAVE UNDOUBTELY DEMONSTRATED THAT – may have said some words on these. Nonetheless, it wouldn’t justify claims and tones of many alb posters here when the topic discussed is churches (everything-belongs-to-“kosova”- serb-priests-go-home). The world saw such attitude too many times in history. To me is scary the simple sound of it.
Cultural heritage is not a piece of land that now is mine and tomorrow yours. When it is up to historic landmarks it belongs to those who created. The coliseum in Rome is not Italian, as the Adrian Wall in Scotland is not Scottish. Both are Romans but since the today there is no national entity that may be claimed to be Roman, they are preserved as a sign of the presence of that culture from where they were originated. But when cultural heritage refers to churches and monasteries the issue is a living body, not simply a piece of stone.
And here is my second point: how Serbian Orthodox monasteries and churches should be affected by an hypothetical “catholic” past or by a change of political situation? Let’s fancy that archeologists find the irrefutable evidence that Decani (just to mention one) five centuries ago was catholic (I don’t believe so but let’s fancy) and run by catholic albs. So what? Should monks and nuns be deported to Serbia if they do not pledge allegiance to the new authorities? And if they where run by catholic albs, maybe they should be ultimately returned to Vatican, shouldn’t they? If the arbresh community in Italy was untouched by the many changes along history why the Serbian Orthodox Church should be changed wherever their temples are?
Again, no offense (but if you feel like it is an offence ok do it), but if you do not know what means to be orthodox (or half of it) yourself, it means that you do not know what means spiritual belonging. Nothing bad with it, you have my respect in any case, but please admit that you are talking about something you do not know deeply.
PS: Albanian Orthodox Churches?!! When in history an AOC ever existed? Let me say this. I believe I have noticed from the many posts in this site that albs are convinced that the world spins around them. It looks like an irresistible inclination and a childish attitude. It is not bad to exert a bit of self criticism, detach from the contingency of the moment and become third part especially when you talk about yourself or your community. Use self-irony. Let’s make life easier for everyone.

I think is time to run a DNA on these chrches and prove once and for all the truth, that these chrches were converted to Orthodox one from Catholic Albanian churches.
I am sure this could be achieved, by archelogists (independent ones).
By the way, this is a weak card played by the Serbian government. Asking for serbian personel to guard the churches is a no no, that will never happen, It is wishful thinking. That would never happen, not in a million years.
Serbian troops will never set a foot in Kosova soil. That issue is dead.

"Albion, I really hope you are a Serb trying to make Albanians look stupid, because this post of yours is by far the most ridiculous one I have seen in a long, long time.

Converted Catholic churches? Are you kidding me?

Buah-ha-ha-ha-haaaaa!!!
Psuedo-Albanian"


Don't worry! In due time the true original identity of many, many Orthodox churches in Kosovo will be identified.

"Uh, Albion buddy... have you ever heard of an independent body called UNESCO? They contradict your little theory.
(Jason, 16 August 2010 18:02) "

There are Serbs on the committee to lobby for exactly this position. They may be right, but were any opposing views or data ever examined?

As for DNA, this is what's going to ultimately settle the question of who's from where. By the DNA of churches I imagine Albion meant the DNA of people buried there. There are plenty of early-Christian churches in Albania (a major basilica at Butrint, for example) so it's not as though the medieval Serb churches were the first in the Balkans.

I think is time to run a DNA on these chrches and prove once and for all the truth, that these chrches were converted to Orthodox one from Catholic Albanian churches.
I am sure this could be achieved, by archelogists (independent ones).

(Albion, 16 August 2010, 17:47)

Uh, Albion buddy... have you ever heard of an independent body called UNESCO? They contradict your little theory.

I guessing we can't blame Albion for his comments.

I am guessing he is a kid in Kosovo who trusts The Kosovo Report and other Albanian media to tell him the truth.

Has anyone read Kosovo Report. I was shocked at the misinformation, redesigning of history and outright racist hatred directed at the Serbian community.

I think is time to run a DNA on these chrches and prove once and for all the truth, that these chrches were converted to Orthodox one from Catholic Albanian churches.
I am sure this could be achieved, by archelogists (independent ones).
By the way, this is a weak card played by the Serbian government. Asking for serbian personel to guard the churches is a no no, that will never happen, It is wishful thinking. That would never happen, not in a million years.
Serbian troops will never set a foot in Kosova soil. That issue is dead.
(Albion, 16 August 2010, 17:47)

Albion, I really hope you are a Serb trying to make Albanians look stupid, because this post of yours is by far the most ridiculous one I have seen in a long, long time.

Converted Catholic churches? Are you kidding me?

Buah-ha-ha-ha-haaaaa!!!

"I am sure this could be achieved, by archelogists (independent ones)." (Albion)

-- Lots of them have. Over the past 60+ years. Serbian, German, Greek, Russian, French, Bulgarian, American, Italian, etc. Nobody buys this silly theory of yours except possibly for the pseudo-academics at the Institute of Albanological Studies in Pristina (or whatever its called).

"I think is time to run a DNA on these chrches and prove once and for all the truth, that these chrches were converted to Orthodox one from Catholic Albanian churches."

Albion

Is that why you burned them down? How many churchers have albanians destroyed? 100? 200?
If they were yours to begin with I would doubt albanians would desecrate them like they have done.

There is an famous albanian saying: "What is yours today will be mine tomorrow."

"I think is time to run a DNA on these chrches" (Albion)

-- And how the Hell do you get DNA from inorganic substances?

Don't worry! In due time the true original identity of many, many Orthodox churches in Kosovo will be identified.
(metrod, 16 August 2010 20:34)
==========================

It already has. What proof could you possibly offer to the contrary?
Please do give us an example of some.

Quote: "By the DNA of churches I imagine Albion meant the DNA of people buried there"

Oh-kuku, this guy lives on the moon. Now religion is a biologically determined marker! In regard to many comments, I never saw such amount of nonsense about theory and practice of writing history. No offense, but it might IMHO you albanians have really no clue of what history and the process of writing history are. And basically it means that when you talk about history you MUST forget nationalism. History is non-national. Its dimension goes beyond the narrow limits of today's political situation. Buddies, open some books (some, not your favorite one) written by third parts' scholars (neither serbs nor albos) and get a mind open of the history of this territory. And you will ses that those churches have been orthodox for centuries so they are orhotodox today. Most of the catholic churches in western europe were build on ancient pagan temples. Does this mean that vatican must return their religious sites to kelts and latins. Please play with whatever you want but don't touch the history and the cultural identity of a people. Don't you have a limit? Really you feel no shame?

So you mean that all those Serbian Orthodox churches in Kosovo were really Albanian?!
WOW!!
I'm sure that one day Albanians will prove that Moses, Jesus and Buddha were also Albanian!

Oh wait, they already have! :-)

Host, just because you put empty phrases such as no offense, doesn't mean you're not being offensive.
Also the churches being orthodox don't necessarily point only to a specific ethnicity. Like you said religion isn't the sole determinant of biology or history for that matter. Being part orthodox myself (whatever that means) I am sure you can believe me when I say that I am neither Serb nor Greek. Hence there could have very well been Orthodox Churches belonging to Albanian communities in Kosova. For example communities from Korca several centuries ago lived in Kosova. Not only that but they are Orthodox. That is one example. Not only that but you can today go to the Arberesh communities in Italy and notice that even though they fall under the authority of Vatican they follow Orthodox rites; they are Catholics following Orthodox rites and their churches are no different from an orthodox Church in Serbia, Kosova, or Albania. So having said that even the fact that majority of Kosova Albanians prior to the Ottomans where under the Vatican doesn't necessarily mean they followed the rites that the Vatican followed. The best example of the existence of Catholic churches following Orthodox rites are the Arberesh Communities of Italy. These are Albanians that fled after the death of Scanderbeg, in the 15th century.

So to sum up a church being an orthodox church doesn't necessarily mean a Serb church at all times. Sure those that are there today are mostly Serb; but that is not to say that here and there there wasn't any Albanian Orthodox church or that as the influence over the cities in Kosova has changed through history that not a single church fell from Serb hands to Albanian hands and vice versa and they never re-used it.

So to sum up a church being an orthodox church doesn't necessarily mean a Serb church at all times. Sure those that are there today are mostly Serb; but that is not to say that here and there there wasn't any Albanian Orthodox church or that as the influence over the cities in Kosova has changed through history that not a single church fell from Serb hands to Albanian hands and vice versa and they never re-used it.
(johny, 18 August 2010 02:30)
===========================

Serbs can prove ownership of all their churches, can Albanians?
If you can prove that a particular Orthodox church was Albanian then you can have it. Until then, please leave our culture and history alone. You have stolen enough.

The complicated combinations of ethnicities/beliefs you mentioned is more than likely in territories where movements of people were/are intense at times. Good scholars – those who write I THINK IT MAY BE DOCUMENTED THAT and not I HAVE UNDOUBTELY DEMONSTRATED THAT – may have said some words on these. Nonetheless, it wouldn’t justify claims and tones of many alb posters here when the topic discussed is churches (everything-belongs-to-“kosova”- serb-priests-go-home). The world saw such attitude too many times in history. To me is scary the simple sound of it.
Cultural heritage is not a piece of land that now is mine and tomorrow yours. When it is up to historic landmarks it belongs to those who created. The coliseum in Rome is not Italian, as the Adrian Wall in Scotland is not Scottish. Both are Romans but since the today there is no national entity that may be claimed to be Roman, they are preserved as a sign of the presence of that culture from where they were originated. But when cultural heritage refers to churches and monasteries the issue is a living body, not simply a piece of stone.
And here is my second point: how Serbian Orthodox monasteries and churches should be affected by an hypothetical “catholic” past or by a change of political situation? Let’s fancy that archeologists find the irrefutable evidence that Decani (just to mention one) five centuries ago was catholic (I don’t believe so but let’s fancy) and run by catholic albs. So what? Should monks and nuns be deported to Serbia if they do not pledge allegiance to the new authorities? And if they where run by catholic albs, maybe they should be ultimately returned to Vatican, shouldn’t they? If the arbresh community in Italy was untouched by the many changes along history why the Serbian Orthodox Church should be changed wherever their temples are?
Again, no offense (but if you feel like it is an offence ok do it), but if you do not know what means to be orthodox (or half of it) yourself, it means that you do not know what means spiritual belonging. Nothing bad with it, you have my respect in any case, but please admit that you are talking about something you do not know deeply.
PS: Albanian Orthodox Churches?!! When in history an AOC ever existed? Let me say this. I believe I have noticed from the many posts in this site that albs are convinced that the world spins around them. It looks like an irresistible inclination and a childish attitude. It is not bad to exert a bit of self criticism, detach from the contingency of the moment and become third part especially when you talk about yourself or your community. Use self-irony. Let’s make life easier for everyone.