Monday, 09.08.2010.
09:02
Foreign Minister Vuk Jeremić told CNN that the Kosovo question divides the UN, EU and NATO, adding that a solution of compromise is needed to bridge the gap.
Izvor: Tanjug
IMAGE SOURCE
pre 13 godina
jeremic said they "only said no to unitalirate declaration of independence"
you said no to everything !!! you refused even a neutral status ofered by "troyka" that was ishinger idea , wich even kosovo institution didnt acept..i know you want that now but i am afriad its to late!!
pre 13 godina
SJ
What you saying is not true. Just because Olmert said something emotionally, that is not true either.
Following what you said once after NATO campaign ended you would see only relics from Serbian cities and towns. This was not the case.
Of course you have seen parts of Kosovo being totally burned by serbian soldiers and paramilitaries.
pre 13 godina
Key Facts, paragraph 7 & 8. And dont ever doubt that Kosovo Albanians weren't mistreated and humiliated by the Serbian-backed government. That's why no one wanted to be in the same country with you guys
(Zena, 10 August 2010 17:43)
====================
What that article tells me is that Albanians had it really good in Yugoslavia but were still not happy and started to make trouble. That's why Milosevic took away your Autonomy. Instead of realising you had it all your way, you started causing trouble with a little help from your pals outside of the country. Then you wonder what happened.
Actually this article doesn't portray you in a very good light. All it says is what I have just said to you. You had it good, didn't respect it, Milosevic cracked down and the rest is history.
pre 13 godina
When I was kicked out of my home I have seen serbian soldiers and paramilitaries coming to my house and no NATO or anyone else.
I don't care what Olmert said when I have experienced serbian soldiers and paramilitaries myself.
(Simpatiku, 10 August 2010 17:01)
I’m sure you did experience Serbian soldiers and paras as you say, but the facts are facts and it was the indiscriminate bombing of NATO that killed 10 000 in Kosovo. Hey, they threw everything everywhere without thought of who or what was killed – look at Afghanistan. All deaths would be blamed on Milosevic – that is how they think.
Ehud Olmert was furious at being critised by the EU for attacking Lebanon ion 2006 and made that statement out of sheer anger “where do they get to blame Israel when the EU killed 10 000 people in ksoovo and no one fired a shot at them”.
pre 13 godina
1.
""The north of Kosovo is not subject to any compromise.
The north of Kosovo is Serbian.
At least with regard to the north of the Kosovo, we should keep all - necessary and appropriate - options open.
The Serbs, Roma, etc. in Kosovo have a right to become
protected against violence, murder and ethnic cleansing;
incidents like those which occured in 2004 must not happen again.
(dht, 9 August 2010 12:15)""
2.
"Yes, they have a right to be protected from all wrong doing.
But answer me this.
Did the Bosnians have a right to be protected from the horrors of the early 90's.
Your using the word "ethnic cleansing", which was created by the West and the Media, to describe your actions in the 90's.
By arguing against this, you would be arguing for a lost cause. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.
Yes, they have EVERY right in the world, to be protected from the Albanians, but if you think about it. How do the Bosnians and Croatians feel with RS and RSKrajina? They don't feel happy, like I said, an eye for an eye.
Before you jump to the defense of people you don't know, think about what your country has done to other countries.
(Sandro, 10 August 2010 18:59)"
3. dht´s reply:
3.1
concerning the "RSKrajina-Croatia"-issue:
In 1990 the majority in the Krajina and Western Slavonia was Serbian.
So the Serbs in these areas had the right to refuse to take part in Croatia´s becoming independent from Yugoslavia.
Sandro, if you would know and could imagine the crimes commited by the Croatian Ustaše against the Serbs in Krajina and Slavonia, you should understand the Serbs:
More than half a million Serbs (including hundreds of thousand children) have been - really - slaughtered by the Ustaše.
It is a crime commited by the western countries that they acknowledged Croatia´s independence without exempting those territories from the acknowledgement where the majority was Serb.
(The same crime has been recently commited in the "Kosovo"-case.)
So the victims of a genocide, the Serbs in Croatia, have become victims a second time.
3.2 concerning the "Bosnian muslims"-issue:
Yes, we should be sad about what happened to many Bosnian muslims.
However, the Kosovo Serbs, Roma, etc. have not lost their right to become protected against crimes because some Serbs in Bosnia have commited crimes against Bosnian muslims.
pre 13 godina
The north of Kosovo is not subject to any compromise.
The north of Kosovo is Serbian.
At least with regard to the north of the Kosovo, we should keep all - necessary and appropriate - options open.
The Serbs, Roma, etc. in Kosovo have a right to become
protected against violence, murder and ethnic cleansing;
incidents like those which occured in 2004 must not happen again.
(dht, 9 August 2010 12:15)
Yes, they have a right to be protected from all wrong doing.
But answer me this.
Did the Bosnians have a right to be protected from the horrors of the early 90's.
Your using the word "ethnic cleansing", which was created by the West and the Media, to describe your actions in the 90's.
By arguing against this, you would be arguing for a lost cause. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.
Yes, they have EVERY right in the world, to be protected from the Albanians, but if you think about it. How do the Bosnians and Croatians feel with RS and RSKrajina? They don't feel happy, like I said, an eye for an eye.
Before you jump to the defense of people you don't know, think about what your country has done to other countries.
pre 13 godina
You certainly don't live on the same planet as the rest of us.
Albanians did have the right to use their own language and study in their own language. Please provide proof of what you are claiming.
(Peggy, 10 August 2010 04:52)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Right here Peggy, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/special_report/1998/kosovo2/61354.stm
Key Facts, paragraph 7 & 8. And dont ever doubt that Kosovo Albanians weren't mistreated and humiliated by the Serbian-backed government. That's why no one wanted to be in the same country with you guys
pre 13 godina
Here is some news for you. The west killed 10,000 Albanians during the Kosovo war – even Ehud Olmert, former Israeli PM admitted that one. Do some research and read up on it.
SJ
When I was kicked out of my home I have seen serbian soldiers and paramilitaries coming to my house and no NATO or anyone else.
I don't care what Olmert said when I have experienced serbian soldiers and paramilitaries myself.
pre 13 godina
Albania is open to all Kosovo solutions (exclusively Presevo Valley, Novi Pazar and Nis) that aimed at consolidating the Unified Albania- which is a garanty for stability in the region.
(PRN, 9 August 2010 11:38)
On what basis should Albania have Presevo Valley, Nis and Novi Pazar? I think you are here just to wind everybody up since you keep repeating the same line over and over again.
Meanwhile in other news.....
Captain Frisco wasted valuable internet bandwith spouting the usual guff.
pre 13 godina
"It was exactly that; Anti-American riots and they were through Belgrade because businesses were attacked, because other embassies were in flame. So there were riots in Belgrade and there were anti-American riots. That's exactly the truth. Hit youtube and watch for yourself." (johny)
--- Taking up your offer, I remember this little viral that was all the rage on YouTube a few days after the "anti-American" riots
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E66gb9pSQi0
No anti-Americanism here. Just mindless looting. The cameramen even seemed to be enjoying mocking their hypocrisy. Looting a Serbian store for what could have been American products. I know, call in an air raid.
So most, if not all, of the businesses you referred to were Serbian owned. The kids who trashed the McDonald's at Slavija Square went to another McDonald's at Zeleni Venac afterwards to get something to eat.
Anti-American? No. Stupid? Beyond words.
As far as the embassy attacks, there might have been anywhere from 100 - 200 hooligans who were probably more interested in causing mayhem, knowing most if not all of the actual crowd at the time was in front of St. Sava's (including myself). And I'll bet you your choice of beer that for every 10 of these idiots, 9 hadn't ever been to Mitrovica, let alone Kosovo.
And the only person who died in the American embassy was, ironically, a K-Serb.
"This stuff will be reported no matter where it happens."
-- And that is exactly what I thought when I heard it all happened: "man, CNN is going to have a field day with this."
pre 13 godina
"I agree that Kosova would have been part of Serbia today if only Albanians were given the right to have their school system and allowed to use their language. But that was to much to ask and as response the special units were dispatched to crush the student uprising, followed by hundreds of unaccounted victims and more put in jail."
======================
You certainly don't live on the same planet as the rest of us.
Albanians did have the right to use their own language and study in their own language. Please provide proof of what you are claiming.
pre 13 godina
"I guess you forgot to add that all US personnell were removed from the embassey prior to the incident, probably due to the fact that it was common knowledge it was going to be attacked." (get a grip)
-- And where did they go? To the Ambassador's posh residence in Dedinje, a spit throw away from TV Pink and Ceca's God-ugly mansion. I did appreciate the phone call I got from a State Dept. rep offering me a trip out of the country "for my safety". But it was pretty obvious 30 min after the attack that it "anti-American" was largely a fabrication. And I had already paid a three month deposit on my apartment. Non-refundable.
"Mike lots of BS on your posts lately. Compared to a year or two years ago you've radicalized a lot." (johny)
-- I could say the same about yours. I can actually remember when you made sense. Now you sound like the consummate Orwellian nationalist who gets pissed at the slightest infraction on his side or the subtle praise or a rival organization. You're really angry of late. Chill man, because you're waging a battle with me that I have no interest in responding in kind to.
"For example you say:"CNN still felt it necessary to run the banner "Anti-American Riots throughout Belgrade". What was wrong with that banner?"
-- It's simply not true. I was there. Lots of other Americans were there and all of us were disgusted with the media coverage. And as an American I felt no problem whatsoever as long as you didn't purposefully stick your nose in front of these "hooligans". And that's a general rule of thumb no matter where anyone goes.
"...because other embassies were in flame."
-- Stones were thrown at the Croatian and Turkish embassy. And there were guards at the Croatian embassy that chased them away. Where were the Marines? Knowing these idiots that attacked the embassy, the US Marines could have chased them away in 5 seconds.
"That's exactly the truth."
-- No it's your opinion. I don't need you to tell me what was going on where I was and you weren't.
"Then you talk about a crowd of 300'000 people and you expect a few marines to remain stationed in front of the embassy building despite the fact that riots were expected."
-- For 300,000 people, over 290,500 were peaceful. The riots that ensued were in some cases more benign than anything following a Partizan-Zvezdara game. If you think 300,000 people were running amok, you're wrong. If you think it was more than 100 people, you're wrong.
Where have I radicalized? I challenge you to find one thing in my posts that does not take into account the maximum demands of both Serbs and Albanians, the advantages and disadvantages of major international powers, and an optimal solution for a resolved Kosovo in whatever capacity it finds itself in that allows both communities maximum control of their own affairs. I really can’t find a reason for your aggressiveness of late.
pre 13 godina
(roberto, 9 August 2010 19:36)
Brilliant Roberto, you are coming to realise that Serbia proper will NEVER; let me repeat it again NEVER wash its hands of Republika Srpska nor Kosovo. Regardless of what the current regime says it will never dare betray Serbs in those regions.
When your beloved US hands over its war criminals to the International Court, and there are plenty that have killed in the name of democracy and freedom, then I’ll consider handing over Ratko Mladic otherwise you can rant all you like and plead with the international community for help in Bosnia, but its all falling on deaf ears.
Natasha Kandic is a “human rights” activitist which means that as long as you peddle western nonsense you get paid and you get time in western media, but no one respects her in Serbia. Human rights groups are a JOKE simply because they are controlled by the US intelligence services – ask yourself how many time has Amnesty International openly criticized the US government over the killings of innocents in Afghanistan – very, very little. Every now and then you might find a small article on page 75 of your newspaper and that’s to say that at least they get in print.
Here is some news for you. The west killed 10,000 Albanians during the Kosovo war – even Ehud Olmert, former Israeli PM admitted that one. Do some research and read up on it.
“May 10th, for an exhumation of yet another "alleged" mass grave in S Serbia”.
This is BS at its best. They have not exhumed because they know there is nothing there. It was the western paid Serbs that came out with this one just before the ICJ opinion to further influence those judicial clowns that gave that “dog’s breakfast” of an opinion.
All Serbia has to do is wait. I understand your frustration, demanding that something be done, but the US can do absolutely NOTHING – it would like to finalise this, but its no longer the power it was in the 1990s. You see the west is only standing on its feet because the EU and US are propping up each other – what I like to call the Alamo stand.
Here is some more sad news.
You recall the US and South Korea holding exercises in the Yellow Sea then China objected then the US admiral in charge was about to move operations then Washington announced that it would not. It did move its operations but the US government did not tell its people – Washington’s statement that it would not leave the Yellow Sea was for domestic consumption only.
Getting the picture now?
pre 13 godina
I wonder if anyone takes this seriously.
This is not for the Serbians, nor the Albanians, hoping that the west would say"hey this is a way to secure the independence of Kosovo" and pressure the Kosovo govt to enter into negotiations.
But once negotiations were to start, all new recognitions would cease and Serbia could sit at the table for decades while Kosovo is continually held in limbo.
Any negotiations should be over what it will take for Serbia to accept the independence of Kosovo and not the independence itself.
pre 13 godina
Johhny you sound as obsessed with the constitution as Kostunica is.
As I told you before the constitution can be changed. Also world history is littered with examples of constitutions being broken or 'interpreted' one way or the other.
pre 13 godina
-- A good chunk of that blame has to go to outlets like CNN that still feel the need to divide parts of the world into good/bad and black/white. Two years ago when I was in BG and parts of the American embassy were burned by less than 50 Grobari idiots - and the US marines normally stationed in front of said embassy were conveniently absent - despite close to 300,000 Serbs gathered in the center of the city to protest Kosovo's UDI, CNN still felt it necessary to run the banner "Anti-American Riots throughout Belgrade" and make it look like the entire city was ablaze.
(Mike, 9 August 2010 17:16)
I guess you forgot to add that all US personnell were removed from the embassey prior to the incident, probably due to the fact that it was common knowledge it was going to be attacked.
Also that all Serbian police were absent from the area(wonder why?) also that the President of Serbia was out of the country during the "peaceful protest" saying he knew of Kostunica's game plan and wanted no part of it. It was blamed on "hooligans" so the govt could claim it was out of their hands while thumbing their noses at the same time.
To try to blame this as a propagnda piece for the US is on the same intelligent level as those who targeted a Serbian franchise of McDonalds which employed, Serbians, fed Serbians, and paid Serbian taxes.
pre 13 godina
A good chunk of that blame has to go to outlets like CNN that still feel the need to divide parts of the world into good/bad and black/white. Two years ago when I was in BG and parts of the American embassy were burned by less than 50 Grobari idiots - and the US marines normally stationed in front of said embassy were conveniently absent - despite close to 300,000 Serbs gathered in the center of the city to protest Kosovo's UDI, CNN still felt it necessary to run the banner "Anti-American Riots throughout Belgrade" and make it look like the entire city was ablaze.
(Mike, 9 August 2010 17:16)
Mike lots of BS on your posts lately. Compared to a year or two years ago you've radicalized a lot. Just an observation. For example you say:"CNN still felt it necessary to run the banner "Anti-American Riots throughout Belgrade". What was wrong with that banner? Nothing. It was exactly that; Anti-American riots and they were through Belgrade because businesses were attacked, because other embassies were in flame. So there were riots in Belgrade and there were anti-American riots. That's exactly the truth. Hit youtube and watch for yourself. Then you talk about a crowd of 300'000 people and you expect a few marines to remain stationed in front of the embassy building despite the fact that riots were expected. You know the world is not black and white all the time but there are times where its just like that; black and white. In this case it was just like that black and white; good and bad. The bad where the Serbs who rioted, destroyed and burned. Its simple. This stuff will be reported no matter where it happens. Of course it doesn't help that Serbia is still the nuisance, from the West, it has been for decades now and is still seen as a possible aggressor. Riots only confirm such things. Take it easy. The world is not out to get Serbia but if you put yourselves into that position it will get you. We are in a new phase now where this is not only about Kosova. It seems this has turned into something bigger, and more important as the British US ambassador at the UNSC put it. Either you work with them or you're against them. Now they see you as an antagonist. That is not an enviable position to be in; hopefully it wont end up the same way as the 90's for Serbia.
pre 13 godina
@SJ Kosova is recognized by 69 not 67 countries, while Serbian FM is promising reversal of recognition yet the contrary is happening. Therefore respectfully I ask who is delusional? When it comes to investments, actually the world is surprised how the foreign companies (including Serbian firm Braca Karic) positively reacted to the privatization in Kosova. However, the lack of confidence does lie mainly on corrupt government in Kosova not because Serbia is convincing anyone not to invest in the region. While Serbia is signing deals with Iran, Kosova is partnering with U.S. Slovenia and other West partners. I also need to mention that even though Belgrade and Athens are using rhetoric to undermine the positive changes in the region, several private entrepreneurs have invested millions in Kosova and Albania.
Also notice the change on tone from Serbian FM compared to not even a year ago, maybe he is just preparing the rest of the nation to accept the inevitable truth.
Observe that even from Serbian standpoint in Kosova there are 2 separate Serbian communities and mentalities (north and south). The southern part is cooperating with authorities and have more than proportional representation in government and on major issues have the right of veto any decision. The north is fueled by Serbian extremists and subventioned by Belgrade is very unstable and the figures shows they receive more financial support that any other group in Kosova yet they do not pay taxes and utility bills.
I agree that Kosova would have been part of Serbia today if only Albanians were given the right to have their school system and allowed to use their language. But that was to much to ask and as response the special units were dispatched to crush the student uprising, followed by hundreds of unaccounted victims and more put in jail. Milosevic’s vision was not even to assimilate Albanians but simply to clear the region of Albanian population and he put the plan into action which resulted in NATO intervention. And the irony on this is that some Serb claim Kosova as their Jerusalem.
I wish Kosova a prosperous future and good relationship with Serbia and everyone else but first they have to replace their corrupt Government.
pre 13 godina
"He stressed that Serbia is not only defending its constitutional, political and democratic rights..."
its a constitution in as far as kosovo goes, as hand-authored by Slobodan Milosovic... whatever democracy Serbs "discovered" they discovered soley for themselves.
and in as much as they desperately try to distance themselves from slobo today... he IS the father of modern day Serbia and His legacy that they defend and wave about at kosovo as a source of authority.
pre 13 godina
Albania is open to all Kosovo solutions (exclusively Presevo Valley, Novi Pazar and Nis) that aimed at consolidating the Unified Albania- which is a garanty for stability in the region.
(PRN, 9 August 2010 11:38)
c`mon PRN-stealing cows and chickens from kursumlija is not enough.
pre 13 godina
How can you be open to all solutions when your "constitution" says that "Kosovo is an inaleniable part of Serbia"??
In my book, this is hipocrisy.
You can pay all the PR firms to get you interviews with CNN and other networks, but unless you change your quasi-constitution, no one will take you seriously.
PR alone won't do it - must act "in good will".
Oh yeah, and a public apology for war crimes in Kosovo would also be appropriate!
pre 13 godina
--Asked how he feels about the fact that some people see Serbia as “Milošević’s Serbia” still, despite changes that have occurred in the country, Jeremić said that “as a human being, it is sometimes offensive,” because the entire democratic bloc fought to free itself of Milošević.--
i am glad that my frnds and i are not the only ones who relate this present blgd regime to that of milosvic.
regarding bosnia, despite that watered down "apology" for the genocide of srebrenica, THIS govt. continues to throw all of its support to its proxy, dodik, who has single-handedly helped to bring bosnia to breaking point. and to keep it far, far away from any serious eu candidacy.
and then there is mladic, the worst mass murderer since ww2 who is still "free" in serbia, meaning still harbored.
as for Kosova, there has been an unending strategy of oppression ag. the people of kosova --at every step, this blgd regime has tried to force kosova to submit to its domination. there has been NO official recognition of the crimes and atrocities from the 1998-1999 period alone! a very few of the top dogs were sent off to the hague to face trial, and that was only at the behest and pressure of the west. the very few trials concerning massacres of albanians in kosova have all been launched by natasa kandic and her colleagues, and every single time they had to buck the system, not find support from it.
as for the media, there continues to be "subtle" censorship, an emphasis on the albanians as some form of low-life, a marginalization of dissidents (of any ethnicity) and a standard unquestioning support for current govt policies.
and the overall tone of leaders like jeremic is both arrogant and unrelenting. anything but conciliatory.
there has to be an acknowledgment of the crimes of the 90s. period, recognitions or not. without it, we really are dealing with an utter continuation of the milosevic era.
of course i do believe in negotiations, over a wide range of issues. protection of all holy sites (should be w/out question), refugee return (ditto) for all returnees that have not committed war crimes (a sad but honest widespread reality), cooperation ag. crime (always multi-ethnic), real border-control, protection of all minorities, the build-up of democratic institutions. fighting corruption. at any rate, most of these issues are vital throughout the balkans.
but one thing is for sure -- independence is NEVER up for question. never.
one poster here has mentioned reparations. i don't believe that one thing (recognition) should be traded for another (apology and compensation). many families in kosova lost everything because of serb forces: their homes, animals, and most of all, their loved ones. their futures. even the bodies of their loved ones were often stolen, thousands of them. there has to be some way of at least attempting to pay for such things, bizarre as that concept might be.
you HAVE to deal with the past if there is any hope for your future, for the future of yr children.
as we are still waiting, since May 10th, for an exhumation of yet another "alleged" mass grave in S serbia. three months and counting.
thank you.
roberto
frisco
pre 13 godina
Jeremić said that Belgrade is ready for open dialogue with the Priština institutions and that Belgrade would not say “no” beforehand to any possible solution.
-- You lie. The only possible solution Serbia is open to is autonomy. That is the only possible solution the Serb Constitution allows for. You can jump as high as you want, you can claim anything you want however the Serb constitution is very clear and it only allows for autonomy as the only solution; no matter what you claim Vukce. You can promise anything but anything you promise are simply lies because the Serb Constitution does not allow you to deliver anything other then autonomy. Under such Constitution you are prohibited to even be talking about solutions other than autonomy because that is in direct contravention with the Serb constitutional order. That would be ground for impeachment and imprisonment almost everywhere else. Under the Serb constitution uttering any other words other than autonomy constitutes treachery; so as long as such constitution remains in place you can keep all these empty
words for yourself. Your hands are tied, you cannot do anything and cannot offer anything other than autonomy. So take this autonomy and shove it.
"He stressed that Serbia is not only defending its constitutional, political and democratic rights..."
-- Serbia's constitutional rights and order are invalid in Kosova because more than 90% of its inhabitants where denied the right to vote for the Constitution. As such the constitution and the constitutional order of Serbia does not a apply to people that had no say and vote in its approval. If that was how things worked then Croatia for example would have the right to uphold its constitutional order in Serbia despite the fact that the Serbs were not allowed to vote for the Croat constitution.
pre 13 godina
Mr.Vuk,
Are you looking for the future or where...?
Seems that you are more focused what it is written in the book and not looking to the content. Take a look between lines please. Take both sides of the coins.
Kosova stil has missing peoples from you government. Your government killed, executed un guilty peoples only because they were Albanians. You have read about massacres that Milosevic regime did in the whole Balkan, than what you are looking next.
Don't lie international community, but tell them the truth, because you are devaluing the prestige of the Institutions where you studied.
pre 13 godina
"Albania is open to all Kosovo solutions (exclusively Presevo Valley, Novi Pazar and Nis) that aimed at consolidating the Unified Albania- which is a garanty for stability in the region."
(PRN)
-- More out of curiosity than striking up an intelligent conversation, but how do you validate giving Novi Pazar and Nis to Albania since no Albanians of any significant majority live there? I know you've been harping on this for a while now.
I'm curious to see what you answer is, and I'm even more curious to read how you justify giving lands not populated by Albanian to Albanians for the sake of stability in the region, as you say.
pre 13 godina
"Asked how he feels about the fact that some people see Serbia as “Milošević’s Serbia” still, despite changes that have occurred in the country, Jeremić said that “as a human being, it is sometimes offensive,” because the entire democratic bloc fought to free itself of Milošević." (B92)
-- A good chunk of that blame has to go to outlets like CNN that still feel the need to divide parts of the world into good/bad and black/white. Two years ago when I was in BG and parts of the American embassy were burned by less than 50 Grobari idiots - and the US marines normally stationed in front of said embassy were conveniently absent - despite close to 300,000 Serbs gathered in the center of the city to protest Kosovo's UDI, CNN still felt it necessary to run the banner "Anti-American Riots throughout Belgrade" and make it look like the entire city was ablaze.
pre 13 godina
Serbis should not give an inch of its territory to terrorists and theives. Not one inch!
pre 13 godina
"The importance of being in the EU as one of the second tier countries is being vastly overplayed.
(kate, 9 August 2010 11:23) "
Just watch what happens to the dinar the day after it becomes clear that Serbia is not going to join the EU. Serbia's Central Bank has spent almost 1.8 billion euros this year just to allow the dinar to depreciate slowly and gracefully. (The pace picked up after July 22, BTW - from ~0.05 RSD per day to ~0.25-0.50.) How long will Serbia continue to be able to borrow from the IMF to support its currency (needed for imports of oil, gas, grain ...) with no expectation of eventual incorporation into the European market and financial system?
pre 13 godina
Albanians who interpret Jeremic not mentioning Res. 1244 and being 'open to anything' to mean Serbia will recognize the UDI forget that that Jeremic also said 50 countries would immediately recognize the UDI after ICJ verdict yet nothing happened because IT'S TACTICAL - meant to give Albanians false hope.
pre 13 godina
Jeremic is slowly unveiling Serbias plan. I guess that this is making some Serbian regime supporters angry.
pre 13 godina
Asked why Belgrade believes that Kosovo’s proclaimed independence should not be recognized, he said that it would be the first time in UN history that a secessionist territory achieved statehood without the consent of the parent state.
So Jeremic makes up his own history of the world as he goes. Bangladesh brokeaway from Pakistan in 1971 in a very violent way and without the cosent of Pakistan.
pre 13 godina
Kosovo is spilled milk. If Serbia were to have a chance to get it back it would have been in early 2000s under the newly democratic regime - but since then there have been zero efforts to convince anyone, much less kosovars, that Serbia would like to have the actual majority of population of Kosovo as citizens of Serbia. In todays post-Srebrenica, Rwanda, Chechnya and yes post-Kosovo conflict world, no normal democratic states will accept the argument "its our land - give us back our land and to hell with the people who live on it". The solution proposed by Ahtisaari was the only reasonable one - Kosovo is independent, but should not be welcomed into the international community as a fully sovereign state until it demonstrates its capacity and commitment to democracy, human rights (notably for Serbs) and the rule of law. While Kosovo has certainly not yet achieved the expectations enumerated by Ahtisaari, it has certainly demonstrated a willingness to do so and Kosovo Serbs have no new reasons to complain in independent Kosovo (by which I mean they still have the old reasons to complain especially about slow returns process), most of the problems Kosovo Serbs face today are the product of Belgrade policies and not Pristina.
Serbia lost Kosovo officially in 1999, de facto some time before that. Kosovo is not a Serbian Jerusalem and never has been - more like a Serbian Camelot - a shining city on a hill - which nobody ever really went to, but they heard the stories about it. It must surely be possible to find some kind of political agreement whereby the special nature of Serbian heritage in Kosovo is recognised and given some kind of special status along with Kosovo Serbs while recognising that the country which is Kosovo is separate from and equal to Serbia.
So here is my wish: that Pristina start making real, visible efforts at reconciliation - sorting out property rights and returns especially and Serbia stop demonising Albanians and start working out agreements on the status of the heritage sights and on the rights and protection of Kosovo Serbs in independent Kosovo.
pre 13 godina
We are open to "all" solutions, and by "all" we mean "all but independence".
Orwell would have been really proud of you Vuk.
pre 13 godina
I'm not even Serbian and I know that the acceptance of Kosovo as independent will be totally unacceptable to Serbia (unless negotiated), whether it takes them into the EU or not.
Kate.
as far as Serbias consensus regarding Kosova/o I think there's more important issues to deal right now, it will be not too long before Serbia come to it's sense, remember a few years back Serbs wouldn't even say compromise but just being stuborn and now not day passes without desperately calling for some kind of solution, anything... dear Serbs you cannot have or hold what isn't yours, we both Albanians and Serbs know very well the bundaries and where we belong.
pre 13 godina
I have one solution for Vuk: Please, just be quiet.
pre 13 godina
"Asked why Belgrade believes that Kosovo’s proclaimed independence should not be recognized, he said that it would be the first time in UN history that a secessionist territory achieved statehood without the consent of the parent state."
notice how 1244 is not mentioned anymore. notice how the history of the world has been restricted to the history of the UN. notice how the FM does not talk about "black holes" anymore. Notice how this will reinforce the belief of western diplomats on how to deal with Serbian diplomacy. The same pattern has been repeating over and over in the last 15 years. Only after being hit hard on the head Serbian diplomacy starts to cooperate.
pre 13 godina
how about this for a deal: recognize now and kosovo won't ask for reparations later
pre 13 godina
Is there a video of the entire conversation online?
pre 13 godina
Hey Vuk! How about saying: 'Milosevic fought illegal UDIs the only way he could when we didn't have a strong Russia to back our diplomacy like today, you sanctimonious, arrogant, condescending little man'. WHEN are we gonna stop letting people who HATE US try to guilt us for defending ourselves? When we abandon Euro-autism & 90s PTSD and wake up to the Russian Reality & BRIC. Its not the 90s. Yeltsin, Clinton & Bush are gone! The Recession, Afghanistan & Iraq weakened the West. Its time to act.
pre 13 godina
kosova status is not up for solutions,mr.jeremic.
its status is solvet alredy,it is independence!
after losing the legal battle,serbia is ready for losing political battle at the un in sept.
wishing to make kosova as precedent will not work,simply those cuntries that have similar situations with serbia ,want to wash there hand and stay away from calling a precedent.
it will be in there interes to say kosova is unike case and not import it to there countries.
pre 13 godina
Serbia is desperate.
There are over 2 years now since the UDI that they are saying:
You know during the negotiations with Ahtisari and contact group we were not serious we admit.
BUT, if you give us a second chance we are open to all outcomes (of course the one that I like- that's what is understood by mutually acceptable solution).
Jeremic: my house is mine. my land is mine. It will never be yours. This is the only fact that 2 normal people can mutual accept. Get with your life and stop stalking people.
pre 13 godina
The north of Kosovo is not subject to any compromise.
The north of Kosovo is Serbian.
At least with regard to the north of the Kosovo, we should keep all - necessary and appropriate - options open.
The Serbs, Roma, etc. in Kosovo have a right to become
protected against violence, murder and ethnic cleansing;
incidents like those which occured in 2004 must not happen again.
pre 13 godina
Around and round it goes with no end in sight with the Albos saying “very soon, very soon Serbia will recognize; it has to recognize; it must recognize; no choice it is fooling its people; 67 countries have recognize and many more to come soon soon; they cannot get into the EU, but around and round it goes ………Vuk continues to “offer” but he is offering nothing, ha, ha.
Are you Albanians getting dizzy yet?
They can give Kosovo not one but 51 seats in the UN, but unless Serbia recognizes no investment; no nothing; Albanians in Kosovo living in abject poverty. The ICJ has given the Albos a “positive” result, but when is Microsoft opening up its factory in pristine????? STATUS QUO continues into the 12 years of so called Albanian independence of Kosovo.
Seeing that the US Government is not helping you at all you might get Bill Clinton to hold a charity night and he might ask Monica to donate one of her dresses for auction.
pre 13 godina
Nothing has changed in the last 2 weeks ..Serbia is in a corner that this governament had put it and don't know how to escape..meanwhile EU is absent as The Baroness is a phantom ..Kosovo hasn't earn no new recognitions..The situation is as dark as possible...
pre 13 godina
so mr vuk.
dont say we are open to any solution when you are already putting condition in place like we dont agree whith UDI of kosovo. thats what i read on headlines before i open this article.
regards
Berat
pre 13 godina
"FM: Serbia open to all Kosovo solutions"
Well Albanians should say the same.
Albania is open to all Kosovo solutions (exclusively Presevo Valley, Novi Pazar and Nis) that aimed at consolidating the Unified Albania- which is a garanty for stability in the region.
pre 13 godina
@ bajo, I don't read the story as supporting your comment at all.
Uli: "I don’t think EU will be options for Serbia if they don’t give up on Kosova. And no Government in Serbia can go against EU. They can’t, because they can’t afford to keep their power if they do so."
I'm not even Serbian and I know that the acceptance of Kosovo as independent will be totally unacceptable to Serbia (unless negotiated), whether it takes them into the EU or not.
The importance of being in the EU as one of the second tier countries is being vastly overplayed.
pre 13 godina
like you care for the rest of the world...this actually sounds like..."we will accept kosovo as independent country but we are so sad nobody asked us!"...this is actually sad for serbs...what leadership they have...
pre 13 godina
Once Serbia recognized Kosovo independence, Albanians would have solved most of their problems with Serbs and both will live in peace and harmony. When is that day going to come? Before Serbia joining EU? I don’t think EU will be options for Serbia if they don’t give up on Kosova. And no Government in Serbia can go against EU. They can’t, because they can’t afford to keep their power if they do so. Kosova case is a lost case for Serbia.
pre 13 godina
Kosovo is spilled milk. If Serbia were to have a chance to get it back it would have been in early 2000s under the newly democratic regime - but since then there have been zero efforts to convince anyone, much less kosovars, that Serbia would like to have the actual majority of population of Kosovo as citizens of Serbia. In todays post-Srebrenica, Rwanda, Chechnya and yes post-Kosovo conflict world, no normal democratic states will accept the argument "its our land - give us back our land and to hell with the people who live on it". The solution proposed by Ahtisaari was the only reasonable one - Kosovo is independent, but should not be welcomed into the international community as a fully sovereign state until it demonstrates its capacity and commitment to democracy, human rights (notably for Serbs) and the rule of law. While Kosovo has certainly not yet achieved the expectations enumerated by Ahtisaari, it has certainly demonstrated a willingness to do so and Kosovo Serbs have no new reasons to complain in independent Kosovo (by which I mean they still have the old reasons to complain especially about slow returns process), most of the problems Kosovo Serbs face today are the product of Belgrade policies and not Pristina.
Serbia lost Kosovo officially in 1999, de facto some time before that. Kosovo is not a Serbian Jerusalem and never has been - more like a Serbian Camelot - a shining city on a hill - which nobody ever really went to, but they heard the stories about it. It must surely be possible to find some kind of political agreement whereby the special nature of Serbian heritage in Kosovo is recognised and given some kind of special status along with Kosovo Serbs while recognising that the country which is Kosovo is separate from and equal to Serbia.
So here is my wish: that Pristina start making real, visible efforts at reconciliation - sorting out property rights and returns especially and Serbia stop demonising Albanians and start working out agreements on the status of the heritage sights and on the rights and protection of Kosovo Serbs in independent Kosovo.
pre 13 godina
Around and round it goes with no end in sight with the Albos saying “very soon, very soon Serbia will recognize; it has to recognize; it must recognize; no choice it is fooling its people; 67 countries have recognize and many more to come soon soon; they cannot get into the EU, but around and round it goes ………Vuk continues to “offer” but he is offering nothing, ha, ha.
Are you Albanians getting dizzy yet?
They can give Kosovo not one but 51 seats in the UN, but unless Serbia recognizes no investment; no nothing; Albanians in Kosovo living in abject poverty. The ICJ has given the Albos a “positive” result, but when is Microsoft opening up its factory in pristine????? STATUS QUO continues into the 12 years of so called Albanian independence of Kosovo.
Seeing that the US Government is not helping you at all you might get Bill Clinton to hold a charity night and he might ask Monica to donate one of her dresses for auction.
pre 13 godina
I have one solution for Vuk: Please, just be quiet.
pre 13 godina
Once Serbia recognized Kosovo independence, Albanians would have solved most of their problems with Serbs and both will live in peace and harmony. When is that day going to come? Before Serbia joining EU? I don’t think EU will be options for Serbia if they don’t give up on Kosova. And no Government in Serbia can go against EU. They can’t, because they can’t afford to keep their power if they do so. Kosova case is a lost case for Serbia.
pre 13 godina
"FM: Serbia open to all Kosovo solutions"
Well Albanians should say the same.
Albania is open to all Kosovo solutions (exclusively Presevo Valley, Novi Pazar and Nis) that aimed at consolidating the Unified Albania- which is a garanty for stability in the region.
pre 13 godina
The north of Kosovo is not subject to any compromise.
The north of Kosovo is Serbian.
At least with regard to the north of the Kosovo, we should keep all - necessary and appropriate - options open.
The Serbs, Roma, etc. in Kosovo have a right to become
protected against violence, murder and ethnic cleansing;
incidents like those which occured in 2004 must not happen again.
pre 13 godina
"Asked why Belgrade believes that Kosovo’s proclaimed independence should not be recognized, he said that it would be the first time in UN history that a secessionist territory achieved statehood without the consent of the parent state."
notice how 1244 is not mentioned anymore. notice how the history of the world has been restricted to the history of the UN. notice how the FM does not talk about "black holes" anymore. Notice how this will reinforce the belief of western diplomats on how to deal with Serbian diplomacy. The same pattern has been repeating over and over in the last 15 years. Only after being hit hard on the head Serbian diplomacy starts to cooperate.
pre 13 godina
I'm not even Serbian and I know that the acceptance of Kosovo as independent will be totally unacceptable to Serbia (unless negotiated), whether it takes them into the EU or not.
Kate.
as far as Serbias consensus regarding Kosova/o I think there's more important issues to deal right now, it will be not too long before Serbia come to it's sense, remember a few years back Serbs wouldn't even say compromise but just being stuborn and now not day passes without desperately calling for some kind of solution, anything... dear Serbs you cannot have or hold what isn't yours, we both Albanians and Serbs know very well the bundaries and where we belong.
pre 13 godina
like you care for the rest of the world...this actually sounds like..."we will accept kosovo as independent country but we are so sad nobody asked us!"...this is actually sad for serbs...what leadership they have...
pre 13 godina
how about this for a deal: recognize now and kosovo won't ask for reparations later
pre 13 godina
We are open to "all" solutions, and by "all" we mean "all but independence".
Orwell would have been really proud of you Vuk.
pre 13 godina
@ bajo, I don't read the story as supporting your comment at all.
Uli: "I don’t think EU will be options for Serbia if they don’t give up on Kosova. And no Government in Serbia can go against EU. They can’t, because they can’t afford to keep their power if they do so."
I'm not even Serbian and I know that the acceptance of Kosovo as independent will be totally unacceptable to Serbia (unless negotiated), whether it takes them into the EU or not.
The importance of being in the EU as one of the second tier countries is being vastly overplayed.
pre 13 godina
so mr vuk.
dont say we are open to any solution when you are already putting condition in place like we dont agree whith UDI of kosovo. thats what i read on headlines before i open this article.
regards
Berat
pre 13 godina
Serbia is desperate.
There are over 2 years now since the UDI that they are saying:
You know during the negotiations with Ahtisari and contact group we were not serious we admit.
BUT, if you give us a second chance we are open to all outcomes (of course the one that I like- that's what is understood by mutually acceptable solution).
Jeremic: my house is mine. my land is mine. It will never be yours. This is the only fact that 2 normal people can mutual accept. Get with your life and stop stalking people.
pre 13 godina
Serbis should not give an inch of its territory to terrorists and theives. Not one inch!
pre 13 godina
kosova status is not up for solutions,mr.jeremic.
its status is solvet alredy,it is independence!
after losing the legal battle,serbia is ready for losing political battle at the un in sept.
wishing to make kosova as precedent will not work,simply those cuntries that have similar situations with serbia ,want to wash there hand and stay away from calling a precedent.
it will be in there interes to say kosova is unike case and not import it to there countries.
pre 13 godina
Hey Vuk! How about saying: 'Milosevic fought illegal UDIs the only way he could when we didn't have a strong Russia to back our diplomacy like today, you sanctimonious, arrogant, condescending little man'. WHEN are we gonna stop letting people who HATE US try to guilt us for defending ourselves? When we abandon Euro-autism & 90s PTSD and wake up to the Russian Reality & BRIC. Its not the 90s. Yeltsin, Clinton & Bush are gone! The Recession, Afghanistan & Iraq weakened the West. Its time to act.
pre 13 godina
"Asked how he feels about the fact that some people see Serbia as “Milošević’s Serbia” still, despite changes that have occurred in the country, Jeremić said that “as a human being, it is sometimes offensive,” because the entire democratic bloc fought to free itself of Milošević." (B92)
-- A good chunk of that blame has to go to outlets like CNN that still feel the need to divide parts of the world into good/bad and black/white. Two years ago when I was in BG and parts of the American embassy were burned by less than 50 Grobari idiots - and the US marines normally stationed in front of said embassy were conveniently absent - despite close to 300,000 Serbs gathered in the center of the city to protest Kosovo's UDI, CNN still felt it necessary to run the banner "Anti-American Riots throughout Belgrade" and make it look like the entire city was ablaze.
pre 13 godina
"Albania is open to all Kosovo solutions (exclusively Presevo Valley, Novi Pazar and Nis) that aimed at consolidating the Unified Albania- which is a garanty for stability in the region."
(PRN)
-- More out of curiosity than striking up an intelligent conversation, but how do you validate giving Novi Pazar and Nis to Albania since no Albanians of any significant majority live there? I know you've been harping on this for a while now.
I'm curious to see what you answer is, and I'm even more curious to read how you justify giving lands not populated by Albanian to Albanians for the sake of stability in the region, as you say.
pre 13 godina
Jeremić said that Belgrade is ready for open dialogue with the Priština institutions and that Belgrade would not say “no” beforehand to any possible solution.
-- You lie. The only possible solution Serbia is open to is autonomy. That is the only possible solution the Serb Constitution allows for. You can jump as high as you want, you can claim anything you want however the Serb constitution is very clear and it only allows for autonomy as the only solution; no matter what you claim Vukce. You can promise anything but anything you promise are simply lies because the Serb Constitution does not allow you to deliver anything other then autonomy. Under such Constitution you are prohibited to even be talking about solutions other than autonomy because that is in direct contravention with the Serb constitutional order. That would be ground for impeachment and imprisonment almost everywhere else. Under the Serb constitution uttering any other words other than autonomy constitutes treachery; so as long as such constitution remains in place you can keep all these empty
words for yourself. Your hands are tied, you cannot do anything and cannot offer anything other than autonomy. So take this autonomy and shove it.
"He stressed that Serbia is not only defending its constitutional, political and democratic rights..."
-- Serbia's constitutional rights and order are invalid in Kosova because more than 90% of its inhabitants where denied the right to vote for the Constitution. As such the constitution and the constitutional order of Serbia does not a apply to people that had no say and vote in its approval. If that was how things worked then Croatia for example would have the right to uphold its constitutional order in Serbia despite the fact that the Serbs were not allowed to vote for the Croat constitution.
pre 13 godina
Johhny you sound as obsessed with the constitution as Kostunica is.
As I told you before the constitution can be changed. Also world history is littered with examples of constitutions being broken or 'interpreted' one way or the other.
pre 13 godina
Mr.Vuk,
Are you looking for the future or where...?
Seems that you are more focused what it is written in the book and not looking to the content. Take a look between lines please. Take both sides of the coins.
Kosova stil has missing peoples from you government. Your government killed, executed un guilty peoples only because they were Albanians. You have read about massacres that Milosevic regime did in the whole Balkan, than what you are looking next.
Don't lie international community, but tell them the truth, because you are devaluing the prestige of the Institutions where you studied.
pre 13 godina
"The importance of being in the EU as one of the second tier countries is being vastly overplayed.
(kate, 9 August 2010 11:23) "
Just watch what happens to the dinar the day after it becomes clear that Serbia is not going to join the EU. Serbia's Central Bank has spent almost 1.8 billion euros this year just to allow the dinar to depreciate slowly and gracefully. (The pace picked up after July 22, BTW - from ~0.05 RSD per day to ~0.25-0.50.) How long will Serbia continue to be able to borrow from the IMF to support its currency (needed for imports of oil, gas, grain ...) with no expectation of eventual incorporation into the European market and financial system?
pre 13 godina
Is there a video of the entire conversation online?
pre 13 godina
I wonder if anyone takes this seriously.
This is not for the Serbians, nor the Albanians, hoping that the west would say"hey this is a way to secure the independence of Kosovo" and pressure the Kosovo govt to enter into negotiations.
But once negotiations were to start, all new recognitions would cease and Serbia could sit at the table for decades while Kosovo is continually held in limbo.
Any negotiations should be over what it will take for Serbia to accept the independence of Kosovo and not the independence itself.
pre 13 godina
Asked why Belgrade believes that Kosovo’s proclaimed independence should not be recognized, he said that it would be the first time in UN history that a secessionist territory achieved statehood without the consent of the parent state.
So Jeremic makes up his own history of the world as he goes. Bangladesh brokeaway from Pakistan in 1971 in a very violent way and without the cosent of Pakistan.
pre 13 godina
Albania is open to all Kosovo solutions (exclusively Presevo Valley, Novi Pazar and Nis) that aimed at consolidating the Unified Albania- which is a garanty for stability in the region.
(PRN, 9 August 2010 11:38)
c`mon PRN-stealing cows and chickens from kursumlija is not enough.
pre 13 godina
--Asked how he feels about the fact that some people see Serbia as “Milošević’s Serbia” still, despite changes that have occurred in the country, Jeremić said that “as a human being, it is sometimes offensive,” because the entire democratic bloc fought to free itself of Milošević.--
i am glad that my frnds and i are not the only ones who relate this present blgd regime to that of milosvic.
regarding bosnia, despite that watered down "apology" for the genocide of srebrenica, THIS govt. continues to throw all of its support to its proxy, dodik, who has single-handedly helped to bring bosnia to breaking point. and to keep it far, far away from any serious eu candidacy.
and then there is mladic, the worst mass murderer since ww2 who is still "free" in serbia, meaning still harbored.
as for Kosova, there has been an unending strategy of oppression ag. the people of kosova --at every step, this blgd regime has tried to force kosova to submit to its domination. there has been NO official recognition of the crimes and atrocities from the 1998-1999 period alone! a very few of the top dogs were sent off to the hague to face trial, and that was only at the behest and pressure of the west. the very few trials concerning massacres of albanians in kosova have all been launched by natasa kandic and her colleagues, and every single time they had to buck the system, not find support from it.
as for the media, there continues to be "subtle" censorship, an emphasis on the albanians as some form of low-life, a marginalization of dissidents (of any ethnicity) and a standard unquestioning support for current govt policies.
and the overall tone of leaders like jeremic is both arrogant and unrelenting. anything but conciliatory.
there has to be an acknowledgment of the crimes of the 90s. period, recognitions or not. without it, we really are dealing with an utter continuation of the milosevic era.
of course i do believe in negotiations, over a wide range of issues. protection of all holy sites (should be w/out question), refugee return (ditto) for all returnees that have not committed war crimes (a sad but honest widespread reality), cooperation ag. crime (always multi-ethnic), real border-control, protection of all minorities, the build-up of democratic institutions. fighting corruption. at any rate, most of these issues are vital throughout the balkans.
but one thing is for sure -- independence is NEVER up for question. never.
one poster here has mentioned reparations. i don't believe that one thing (recognition) should be traded for another (apology and compensation). many families in kosova lost everything because of serb forces: their homes, animals, and most of all, their loved ones. their futures. even the bodies of their loved ones were often stolen, thousands of them. there has to be some way of at least attempting to pay for such things, bizarre as that concept might be.
you HAVE to deal with the past if there is any hope for your future, for the future of yr children.
as we are still waiting, since May 10th, for an exhumation of yet another "alleged" mass grave in S serbia. three months and counting.
thank you.
roberto
frisco
pre 13 godina
@SJ Kosova is recognized by 69 not 67 countries, while Serbian FM is promising reversal of recognition yet the contrary is happening. Therefore respectfully I ask who is delusional? When it comes to investments, actually the world is surprised how the foreign companies (including Serbian firm Braca Karic) positively reacted to the privatization in Kosova. However, the lack of confidence does lie mainly on corrupt government in Kosova not because Serbia is convincing anyone not to invest in the region. While Serbia is signing deals with Iran, Kosova is partnering with U.S. Slovenia and other West partners. I also need to mention that even though Belgrade and Athens are using rhetoric to undermine the positive changes in the region, several private entrepreneurs have invested millions in Kosova and Albania.
Also notice the change on tone from Serbian FM compared to not even a year ago, maybe he is just preparing the rest of the nation to accept the inevitable truth.
Observe that even from Serbian standpoint in Kosova there are 2 separate Serbian communities and mentalities (north and south). The southern part is cooperating with authorities and have more than proportional representation in government and on major issues have the right of veto any decision. The north is fueled by Serbian extremists and subventioned by Belgrade is very unstable and the figures shows they receive more financial support that any other group in Kosova yet they do not pay taxes and utility bills.
I agree that Kosova would have been part of Serbia today if only Albanians were given the right to have their school system and allowed to use their language. But that was to much to ask and as response the special units were dispatched to crush the student uprising, followed by hundreds of unaccounted victims and more put in jail. Milosevic’s vision was not even to assimilate Albanians but simply to clear the region of Albanian population and he put the plan into action which resulted in NATO intervention. And the irony on this is that some Serb claim Kosova as their Jerusalem.
I wish Kosova a prosperous future and good relationship with Serbia and everyone else but first they have to replace their corrupt Government.
pre 13 godina
Nothing has changed in the last 2 weeks ..Serbia is in a corner that this governament had put it and don't know how to escape..meanwhile EU is absent as The Baroness is a phantom ..Kosovo hasn't earn no new recognitions..The situation is as dark as possible...
pre 13 godina
-- A good chunk of that blame has to go to outlets like CNN that still feel the need to divide parts of the world into good/bad and black/white. Two years ago when I was in BG and parts of the American embassy were burned by less than 50 Grobari idiots - and the US marines normally stationed in front of said embassy were conveniently absent - despite close to 300,000 Serbs gathered in the center of the city to protest Kosovo's UDI, CNN still felt it necessary to run the banner "Anti-American Riots throughout Belgrade" and make it look like the entire city was ablaze.
(Mike, 9 August 2010 17:16)
I guess you forgot to add that all US personnell were removed from the embassey prior to the incident, probably due to the fact that it was common knowledge it was going to be attacked.
Also that all Serbian police were absent from the area(wonder why?) also that the President of Serbia was out of the country during the "peaceful protest" saying he knew of Kostunica's game plan and wanted no part of it. It was blamed on "hooligans" so the govt could claim it was out of their hands while thumbing their noses at the same time.
To try to blame this as a propagnda piece for the US is on the same intelligent level as those who targeted a Serbian franchise of McDonalds which employed, Serbians, fed Serbians, and paid Serbian taxes.
pre 13 godina
A good chunk of that blame has to go to outlets like CNN that still feel the need to divide parts of the world into good/bad and black/white. Two years ago when I was in BG and parts of the American embassy were burned by less than 50 Grobari idiots - and the US marines normally stationed in front of said embassy were conveniently absent - despite close to 300,000 Serbs gathered in the center of the city to protest Kosovo's UDI, CNN still felt it necessary to run the banner "Anti-American Riots throughout Belgrade" and make it look like the entire city was ablaze.
(Mike, 9 August 2010 17:16)
Mike lots of BS on your posts lately. Compared to a year or two years ago you've radicalized a lot. Just an observation. For example you say:"CNN still felt it necessary to run the banner "Anti-American Riots throughout Belgrade". What was wrong with that banner? Nothing. It was exactly that; Anti-American riots and they were through Belgrade because businesses were attacked, because other embassies were in flame. So there were riots in Belgrade and there were anti-American riots. That's exactly the truth. Hit youtube and watch for yourself. Then you talk about a crowd of 300'000 people and you expect a few marines to remain stationed in front of the embassy building despite the fact that riots were expected. You know the world is not black and white all the time but there are times where its just like that; black and white. In this case it was just like that black and white; good and bad. The bad where the Serbs who rioted, destroyed and burned. Its simple. This stuff will be reported no matter where it happens. Of course it doesn't help that Serbia is still the nuisance, from the West, it has been for decades now and is still seen as a possible aggressor. Riots only confirm such things. Take it easy. The world is not out to get Serbia but if you put yourselves into that position it will get you. We are in a new phase now where this is not only about Kosova. It seems this has turned into something bigger, and more important as the British US ambassador at the UNSC put it. Either you work with them or you're against them. Now they see you as an antagonist. That is not an enviable position to be in; hopefully it wont end up the same way as the 90's for Serbia.
pre 13 godina
Albania is open to all Kosovo solutions (exclusively Presevo Valley, Novi Pazar and Nis) that aimed at consolidating the Unified Albania- which is a garanty for stability in the region.
(PRN, 9 August 2010 11:38)
On what basis should Albania have Presevo Valley, Nis and Novi Pazar? I think you are here just to wind everybody up since you keep repeating the same line over and over again.
Meanwhile in other news.....
Captain Frisco wasted valuable internet bandwith spouting the usual guff.
pre 13 godina
Albanians who interpret Jeremic not mentioning Res. 1244 and being 'open to anything' to mean Serbia will recognize the UDI forget that that Jeremic also said 50 countries would immediately recognize the UDI after ICJ verdict yet nothing happened because IT'S TACTICAL - meant to give Albanians false hope.
pre 13 godina
Jeremic is slowly unveiling Serbias plan. I guess that this is making some Serbian regime supporters angry.
pre 13 godina
How can you be open to all solutions when your "constitution" says that "Kosovo is an inaleniable part of Serbia"??
In my book, this is hipocrisy.
You can pay all the PR firms to get you interviews with CNN and other networks, but unless you change your quasi-constitution, no one will take you seriously.
PR alone won't do it - must act "in good will".
Oh yeah, and a public apology for war crimes in Kosovo would also be appropriate!
pre 13 godina
Here is some news for you. The west killed 10,000 Albanians during the Kosovo war – even Ehud Olmert, former Israeli PM admitted that one. Do some research and read up on it.
SJ
When I was kicked out of my home I have seen serbian soldiers and paramilitaries coming to my house and no NATO or anyone else.
I don't care what Olmert said when I have experienced serbian soldiers and paramilitaries myself.
pre 13 godina
You certainly don't live on the same planet as the rest of us.
Albanians did have the right to use their own language and study in their own language. Please provide proof of what you are claiming.
(Peggy, 10 August 2010 04:52)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Right here Peggy, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/special_report/1998/kosovo2/61354.stm
Key Facts, paragraph 7 & 8. And dont ever doubt that Kosovo Albanians weren't mistreated and humiliated by the Serbian-backed government. That's why no one wanted to be in the same country with you guys
pre 13 godina
"It was exactly that; Anti-American riots and they were through Belgrade because businesses were attacked, because other embassies were in flame. So there were riots in Belgrade and there were anti-American riots. That's exactly the truth. Hit youtube and watch for yourself." (johny)
--- Taking up your offer, I remember this little viral that was all the rage on YouTube a few days after the "anti-American" riots
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E66gb9pSQi0
No anti-Americanism here. Just mindless looting. The cameramen even seemed to be enjoying mocking their hypocrisy. Looting a Serbian store for what could have been American products. I know, call in an air raid.
So most, if not all, of the businesses you referred to were Serbian owned. The kids who trashed the McDonald's at Slavija Square went to another McDonald's at Zeleni Venac afterwards to get something to eat.
Anti-American? No. Stupid? Beyond words.
As far as the embassy attacks, there might have been anywhere from 100 - 200 hooligans who were probably more interested in causing mayhem, knowing most if not all of the actual crowd at the time was in front of St. Sava's (including myself). And I'll bet you your choice of beer that for every 10 of these idiots, 9 hadn't ever been to Mitrovica, let alone Kosovo.
And the only person who died in the American embassy was, ironically, a K-Serb.
"This stuff will be reported no matter where it happens."
-- And that is exactly what I thought when I heard it all happened: "man, CNN is going to have a field day with this."
pre 13 godina
When I was kicked out of my home I have seen serbian soldiers and paramilitaries coming to my house and no NATO or anyone else.
I don't care what Olmert said when I have experienced serbian soldiers and paramilitaries myself.
(Simpatiku, 10 August 2010 17:01)
I’m sure you did experience Serbian soldiers and paras as you say, but the facts are facts and it was the indiscriminate bombing of NATO that killed 10 000 in Kosovo. Hey, they threw everything everywhere without thought of who or what was killed – look at Afghanistan. All deaths would be blamed on Milosevic – that is how they think.
Ehud Olmert was furious at being critised by the EU for attacking Lebanon ion 2006 and made that statement out of sheer anger “where do they get to blame Israel when the EU killed 10 000 people in ksoovo and no one fired a shot at them”.
pre 13 godina
"He stressed that Serbia is not only defending its constitutional, political and democratic rights..."
its a constitution in as far as kosovo goes, as hand-authored by Slobodan Milosovic... whatever democracy Serbs "discovered" they discovered soley for themselves.
and in as much as they desperately try to distance themselves from slobo today... he IS the father of modern day Serbia and His legacy that they defend and wave about at kosovo as a source of authority.
pre 13 godina
"I guess you forgot to add that all US personnell were removed from the embassey prior to the incident, probably due to the fact that it was common knowledge it was going to be attacked." (get a grip)
-- And where did they go? To the Ambassador's posh residence in Dedinje, a spit throw away from TV Pink and Ceca's God-ugly mansion. I did appreciate the phone call I got from a State Dept. rep offering me a trip out of the country "for my safety". But it was pretty obvious 30 min after the attack that it "anti-American" was largely a fabrication. And I had already paid a three month deposit on my apartment. Non-refundable.
"Mike lots of BS on your posts lately. Compared to a year or two years ago you've radicalized a lot." (johny)
-- I could say the same about yours. I can actually remember when you made sense. Now you sound like the consummate Orwellian nationalist who gets pissed at the slightest infraction on his side or the subtle praise or a rival organization. You're really angry of late. Chill man, because you're waging a battle with me that I have no interest in responding in kind to.
"For example you say:"CNN still felt it necessary to run the banner "Anti-American Riots throughout Belgrade". What was wrong with that banner?"
-- It's simply not true. I was there. Lots of other Americans were there and all of us were disgusted with the media coverage. And as an American I felt no problem whatsoever as long as you didn't purposefully stick your nose in front of these "hooligans". And that's a general rule of thumb no matter where anyone goes.
"...because other embassies were in flame."
-- Stones were thrown at the Croatian and Turkish embassy. And there were guards at the Croatian embassy that chased them away. Where were the Marines? Knowing these idiots that attacked the embassy, the US Marines could have chased them away in 5 seconds.
"That's exactly the truth."
-- No it's your opinion. I don't need you to tell me what was going on where I was and you weren't.
"Then you talk about a crowd of 300'000 people and you expect a few marines to remain stationed in front of the embassy building despite the fact that riots were expected."
-- For 300,000 people, over 290,500 were peaceful. The riots that ensued were in some cases more benign than anything following a Partizan-Zvezdara game. If you think 300,000 people were running amok, you're wrong. If you think it was more than 100 people, you're wrong.
Where have I radicalized? I challenge you to find one thing in my posts that does not take into account the maximum demands of both Serbs and Albanians, the advantages and disadvantages of major international powers, and an optimal solution for a resolved Kosovo in whatever capacity it finds itself in that allows both communities maximum control of their own affairs. I really can’t find a reason for your aggressiveness of late.
pre 13 godina
(roberto, 9 August 2010 19:36)
Brilliant Roberto, you are coming to realise that Serbia proper will NEVER; let me repeat it again NEVER wash its hands of Republika Srpska nor Kosovo. Regardless of what the current regime says it will never dare betray Serbs in those regions.
When your beloved US hands over its war criminals to the International Court, and there are plenty that have killed in the name of democracy and freedom, then I’ll consider handing over Ratko Mladic otherwise you can rant all you like and plead with the international community for help in Bosnia, but its all falling on deaf ears.
Natasha Kandic is a “human rights” activitist which means that as long as you peddle western nonsense you get paid and you get time in western media, but no one respects her in Serbia. Human rights groups are a JOKE simply because they are controlled by the US intelligence services – ask yourself how many time has Amnesty International openly criticized the US government over the killings of innocents in Afghanistan – very, very little. Every now and then you might find a small article on page 75 of your newspaper and that’s to say that at least they get in print.
Here is some news for you. The west killed 10,000 Albanians during the Kosovo war – even Ehud Olmert, former Israeli PM admitted that one. Do some research and read up on it.
“May 10th, for an exhumation of yet another "alleged" mass grave in S Serbia”.
This is BS at its best. They have not exhumed because they know there is nothing there. It was the western paid Serbs that came out with this one just before the ICJ opinion to further influence those judicial clowns that gave that “dog’s breakfast” of an opinion.
All Serbia has to do is wait. I understand your frustration, demanding that something be done, but the US can do absolutely NOTHING – it would like to finalise this, but its no longer the power it was in the 1990s. You see the west is only standing on its feet because the EU and US are propping up each other – what I like to call the Alamo stand.
Here is some more sad news.
You recall the US and South Korea holding exercises in the Yellow Sea then China objected then the US admiral in charge was about to move operations then Washington announced that it would not. It did move its operations but the US government did not tell its people – Washington’s statement that it would not leave the Yellow Sea was for domestic consumption only.
Getting the picture now?
pre 13 godina
SJ
What you saying is not true. Just because Olmert said something emotionally, that is not true either.
Following what you said once after NATO campaign ended you would see only relics from Serbian cities and towns. This was not the case.
Of course you have seen parts of Kosovo being totally burned by serbian soldiers and paramilitaries.
pre 13 godina
The north of Kosovo is not subject to any compromise.
The north of Kosovo is Serbian.
At least with regard to the north of the Kosovo, we should keep all - necessary and appropriate - options open.
The Serbs, Roma, etc. in Kosovo have a right to become
protected against violence, murder and ethnic cleansing;
incidents like those which occured in 2004 must not happen again.
(dht, 9 August 2010 12:15)
Yes, they have a right to be protected from all wrong doing.
But answer me this.
Did the Bosnians have a right to be protected from the horrors of the early 90's.
Your using the word "ethnic cleansing", which was created by the West and the Media, to describe your actions in the 90's.
By arguing against this, you would be arguing for a lost cause. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.
Yes, they have EVERY right in the world, to be protected from the Albanians, but if you think about it. How do the Bosnians and Croatians feel with RS and RSKrajina? They don't feel happy, like I said, an eye for an eye.
Before you jump to the defense of people you don't know, think about what your country has done to other countries.
pre 13 godina
1.
""The north of Kosovo is not subject to any compromise.
The north of Kosovo is Serbian.
At least with regard to the north of the Kosovo, we should keep all - necessary and appropriate - options open.
The Serbs, Roma, etc. in Kosovo have a right to become
protected against violence, murder and ethnic cleansing;
incidents like those which occured in 2004 must not happen again.
(dht, 9 August 2010 12:15)""
2.
"Yes, they have a right to be protected from all wrong doing.
But answer me this.
Did the Bosnians have a right to be protected from the horrors of the early 90's.
Your using the word "ethnic cleansing", which was created by the West and the Media, to describe your actions in the 90's.
By arguing against this, you would be arguing for a lost cause. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.
Yes, they have EVERY right in the world, to be protected from the Albanians, but if you think about it. How do the Bosnians and Croatians feel with RS and RSKrajina? They don't feel happy, like I said, an eye for an eye.
Before you jump to the defense of people you don't know, think about what your country has done to other countries.
(Sandro, 10 August 2010 18:59)"
3. dht´s reply:
3.1
concerning the "RSKrajina-Croatia"-issue:
In 1990 the majority in the Krajina and Western Slavonia was Serbian.
So the Serbs in these areas had the right to refuse to take part in Croatia´s becoming independent from Yugoslavia.
Sandro, if you would know and could imagine the crimes commited by the Croatian Ustaše against the Serbs in Krajina and Slavonia, you should understand the Serbs:
More than half a million Serbs (including hundreds of thousand children) have been - really - slaughtered by the Ustaše.
It is a crime commited by the western countries that they acknowledged Croatia´s independence without exempting those territories from the acknowledgement where the majority was Serb.
(The same crime has been recently commited in the "Kosovo"-case.)
So the victims of a genocide, the Serbs in Croatia, have become victims a second time.
3.2 concerning the "Bosnian muslims"-issue:
Yes, we should be sad about what happened to many Bosnian muslims.
However, the Kosovo Serbs, Roma, etc. have not lost their right to become protected against crimes because some Serbs in Bosnia have commited crimes against Bosnian muslims.
pre 13 godina
"I agree that Kosova would have been part of Serbia today if only Albanians were given the right to have their school system and allowed to use their language. But that was to much to ask and as response the special units were dispatched to crush the student uprising, followed by hundreds of unaccounted victims and more put in jail."
======================
You certainly don't live on the same planet as the rest of us.
Albanians did have the right to use their own language and study in their own language. Please provide proof of what you are claiming.
pre 13 godina
Key Facts, paragraph 7 & 8. And dont ever doubt that Kosovo Albanians weren't mistreated and humiliated by the Serbian-backed government. That's why no one wanted to be in the same country with you guys
(Zena, 10 August 2010 17:43)
====================
What that article tells me is that Albanians had it really good in Yugoslavia but were still not happy and started to make trouble. That's why Milosevic took away your Autonomy. Instead of realising you had it all your way, you started causing trouble with a little help from your pals outside of the country. Then you wonder what happened.
Actually this article doesn't portray you in a very good light. All it says is what I have just said to you. You had it good, didn't respect it, Milosevic cracked down and the rest is history.
pre 13 godina
jeremic said they "only said no to unitalirate declaration of independence"
you said no to everything !!! you refused even a neutral status ofered by "troyka" that was ishinger idea , wich even kosovo institution didnt acept..i know you want that now but i am afriad its to late!!
pre 13 godina
Once Serbia recognized Kosovo independence, Albanians would have solved most of their problems with Serbs and both will live in peace and harmony. When is that day going to come? Before Serbia joining EU? I don’t think EU will be options for Serbia if they don’t give up on Kosova. And no Government in Serbia can go against EU. They can’t, because they can’t afford to keep their power if they do so. Kosova case is a lost case for Serbia.
pre 13 godina
Around and round it goes with no end in sight with the Albos saying “very soon, very soon Serbia will recognize; it has to recognize; it must recognize; no choice it is fooling its people; 67 countries have recognize and many more to come soon soon; they cannot get into the EU, but around and round it goes ………Vuk continues to “offer” but he is offering nothing, ha, ha.
Are you Albanians getting dizzy yet?
They can give Kosovo not one but 51 seats in the UN, but unless Serbia recognizes no investment; no nothing; Albanians in Kosovo living in abject poverty. The ICJ has given the Albos a “positive” result, but when is Microsoft opening up its factory in pristine????? STATUS QUO continues into the 12 years of so called Albanian independence of Kosovo.
Seeing that the US Government is not helping you at all you might get Bill Clinton to hold a charity night and he might ask Monica to donate one of her dresses for auction.
pre 13 godina
Hey Vuk! How about saying: 'Milosevic fought illegal UDIs the only way he could when we didn't have a strong Russia to back our diplomacy like today, you sanctimonious, arrogant, condescending little man'. WHEN are we gonna stop letting people who HATE US try to guilt us for defending ourselves? When we abandon Euro-autism & 90s PTSD and wake up to the Russian Reality & BRIC. Its not the 90s. Yeltsin, Clinton & Bush are gone! The Recession, Afghanistan & Iraq weakened the West. Its time to act.
pre 13 godina
Jeremić said that Belgrade is ready for open dialogue with the Priština institutions and that Belgrade would not say “no” beforehand to any possible solution.
-- You lie. The only possible solution Serbia is open to is autonomy. That is the only possible solution the Serb Constitution allows for. You can jump as high as you want, you can claim anything you want however the Serb constitution is very clear and it only allows for autonomy as the only solution; no matter what you claim Vukce. You can promise anything but anything you promise are simply lies because the Serb Constitution does not allow you to deliver anything other then autonomy. Under such Constitution you are prohibited to even be talking about solutions other than autonomy because that is in direct contravention with the Serb constitutional order. That would be ground for impeachment and imprisonment almost everywhere else. Under the Serb constitution uttering any other words other than autonomy constitutes treachery; so as long as such constitution remains in place you can keep all these empty
words for yourself. Your hands are tied, you cannot do anything and cannot offer anything other than autonomy. So take this autonomy and shove it.
"He stressed that Serbia is not only defending its constitutional, political and democratic rights..."
-- Serbia's constitutional rights and order are invalid in Kosova because more than 90% of its inhabitants where denied the right to vote for the Constitution. As such the constitution and the constitutional order of Serbia does not a apply to people that had no say and vote in its approval. If that was how things worked then Croatia for example would have the right to uphold its constitutional order in Serbia despite the fact that the Serbs were not allowed to vote for the Croat constitution.
pre 13 godina
like you care for the rest of the world...this actually sounds like..."we will accept kosovo as independent country but we are so sad nobody asked us!"...this is actually sad for serbs...what leadership they have...
pre 13 godina
"FM: Serbia open to all Kosovo solutions"
Well Albanians should say the same.
Albania is open to all Kosovo solutions (exclusively Presevo Valley, Novi Pazar and Nis) that aimed at consolidating the Unified Albania- which is a garanty for stability in the region.
pre 13 godina
Serbia is desperate.
There are over 2 years now since the UDI that they are saying:
You know during the negotiations with Ahtisari and contact group we were not serious we admit.
BUT, if you give us a second chance we are open to all outcomes (of course the one that I like- that's what is understood by mutually acceptable solution).
Jeremic: my house is mine. my land is mine. It will never be yours. This is the only fact that 2 normal people can mutual accept. Get with your life and stop stalking people.
pre 13 godina
how about this for a deal: recognize now and kosovo won't ask for reparations later
pre 13 godina
I have one solution for Vuk: Please, just be quiet.
pre 13 godina
The north of Kosovo is not subject to any compromise.
The north of Kosovo is Serbian.
At least with regard to the north of the Kosovo, we should keep all - necessary and appropriate - options open.
The Serbs, Roma, etc. in Kosovo have a right to become
protected against violence, murder and ethnic cleansing;
incidents like those which occured in 2004 must not happen again.
pre 13 godina
kosova status is not up for solutions,mr.jeremic.
its status is solvet alredy,it is independence!
after losing the legal battle,serbia is ready for losing political battle at the un in sept.
wishing to make kosova as precedent will not work,simply those cuntries that have similar situations with serbia ,want to wash there hand and stay away from calling a precedent.
it will be in there interes to say kosova is unike case and not import it to there countries.
pre 13 godina
--Asked how he feels about the fact that some people see Serbia as “Milošević’s Serbia” still, despite changes that have occurred in the country, Jeremić said that “as a human being, it is sometimes offensive,” because the entire democratic bloc fought to free itself of Milošević.--
i am glad that my frnds and i are not the only ones who relate this present blgd regime to that of milosvic.
regarding bosnia, despite that watered down "apology" for the genocide of srebrenica, THIS govt. continues to throw all of its support to its proxy, dodik, who has single-handedly helped to bring bosnia to breaking point. and to keep it far, far away from any serious eu candidacy.
and then there is mladic, the worst mass murderer since ww2 who is still "free" in serbia, meaning still harbored.
as for Kosova, there has been an unending strategy of oppression ag. the people of kosova --at every step, this blgd regime has tried to force kosova to submit to its domination. there has been NO official recognition of the crimes and atrocities from the 1998-1999 period alone! a very few of the top dogs were sent off to the hague to face trial, and that was only at the behest and pressure of the west. the very few trials concerning massacres of albanians in kosova have all been launched by natasa kandic and her colleagues, and every single time they had to buck the system, not find support from it.
as for the media, there continues to be "subtle" censorship, an emphasis on the albanians as some form of low-life, a marginalization of dissidents (of any ethnicity) and a standard unquestioning support for current govt policies.
and the overall tone of leaders like jeremic is both arrogant and unrelenting. anything but conciliatory.
there has to be an acknowledgment of the crimes of the 90s. period, recognitions or not. without it, we really are dealing with an utter continuation of the milosevic era.
of course i do believe in negotiations, over a wide range of issues. protection of all holy sites (should be w/out question), refugee return (ditto) for all returnees that have not committed war crimes (a sad but honest widespread reality), cooperation ag. crime (always multi-ethnic), real border-control, protection of all minorities, the build-up of democratic institutions. fighting corruption. at any rate, most of these issues are vital throughout the balkans.
but one thing is for sure -- independence is NEVER up for question. never.
one poster here has mentioned reparations. i don't believe that one thing (recognition) should be traded for another (apology and compensation). many families in kosova lost everything because of serb forces: their homes, animals, and most of all, their loved ones. their futures. even the bodies of their loved ones were often stolen, thousands of them. there has to be some way of at least attempting to pay for such things, bizarre as that concept might be.
you HAVE to deal with the past if there is any hope for your future, for the future of yr children.
as we are still waiting, since May 10th, for an exhumation of yet another "alleged" mass grave in S serbia. three months and counting.
thank you.
roberto
frisco
pre 13 godina
Serbis should not give an inch of its territory to terrorists and theives. Not one inch!
pre 13 godina
@ bajo, I don't read the story as supporting your comment at all.
Uli: "I don’t think EU will be options for Serbia if they don’t give up on Kosova. And no Government in Serbia can go against EU. They can’t, because they can’t afford to keep their power if they do so."
I'm not even Serbian and I know that the acceptance of Kosovo as independent will be totally unacceptable to Serbia (unless negotiated), whether it takes them into the EU or not.
The importance of being in the EU as one of the second tier countries is being vastly overplayed.
pre 13 godina
so mr vuk.
dont say we are open to any solution when you are already putting condition in place like we dont agree whith UDI of kosovo. thats what i read on headlines before i open this article.
regards
Berat
pre 13 godina
Nothing has changed in the last 2 weeks ..Serbia is in a corner that this governament had put it and don't know how to escape..meanwhile EU is absent as The Baroness is a phantom ..Kosovo hasn't earn no new recognitions..The situation is as dark as possible...
pre 13 godina
I'm not even Serbian and I know that the acceptance of Kosovo as independent will be totally unacceptable to Serbia (unless negotiated), whether it takes them into the EU or not.
Kate.
as far as Serbias consensus regarding Kosova/o I think there's more important issues to deal right now, it will be not too long before Serbia come to it's sense, remember a few years back Serbs wouldn't even say compromise but just being stuborn and now not day passes without desperately calling for some kind of solution, anything... dear Serbs you cannot have or hold what isn't yours, we both Albanians and Serbs know very well the bundaries and where we belong.
pre 13 godina
Kosovo is spilled milk. If Serbia were to have a chance to get it back it would have been in early 2000s under the newly democratic regime - but since then there have been zero efforts to convince anyone, much less kosovars, that Serbia would like to have the actual majority of population of Kosovo as citizens of Serbia. In todays post-Srebrenica, Rwanda, Chechnya and yes post-Kosovo conflict world, no normal democratic states will accept the argument "its our land - give us back our land and to hell with the people who live on it". The solution proposed by Ahtisaari was the only reasonable one - Kosovo is independent, but should not be welcomed into the international community as a fully sovereign state until it demonstrates its capacity and commitment to democracy, human rights (notably for Serbs) and the rule of law. While Kosovo has certainly not yet achieved the expectations enumerated by Ahtisaari, it has certainly demonstrated a willingness to do so and Kosovo Serbs have no new reasons to complain in independent Kosovo (by which I mean they still have the old reasons to complain especially about slow returns process), most of the problems Kosovo Serbs face today are the product of Belgrade policies and not Pristina.
Serbia lost Kosovo officially in 1999, de facto some time before that. Kosovo is not a Serbian Jerusalem and never has been - more like a Serbian Camelot - a shining city on a hill - which nobody ever really went to, but they heard the stories about it. It must surely be possible to find some kind of political agreement whereby the special nature of Serbian heritage in Kosovo is recognised and given some kind of special status along with Kosovo Serbs while recognising that the country which is Kosovo is separate from and equal to Serbia.
So here is my wish: that Pristina start making real, visible efforts at reconciliation - sorting out property rights and returns especially and Serbia stop demonising Albanians and start working out agreements on the status of the heritage sights and on the rights and protection of Kosovo Serbs in independent Kosovo.
pre 13 godina
"Asked how he feels about the fact that some people see Serbia as “Milošević’s Serbia” still, despite changes that have occurred in the country, Jeremić said that “as a human being, it is sometimes offensive,” because the entire democratic bloc fought to free itself of Milošević." (B92)
-- A good chunk of that blame has to go to outlets like CNN that still feel the need to divide parts of the world into good/bad and black/white. Two years ago when I was in BG and parts of the American embassy were burned by less than 50 Grobari idiots - and the US marines normally stationed in front of said embassy were conveniently absent - despite close to 300,000 Serbs gathered in the center of the city to protest Kosovo's UDI, CNN still felt it necessary to run the banner "Anti-American Riots throughout Belgrade" and make it look like the entire city was ablaze.
pre 13 godina
A good chunk of that blame has to go to outlets like CNN that still feel the need to divide parts of the world into good/bad and black/white. Two years ago when I was in BG and parts of the American embassy were burned by less than 50 Grobari idiots - and the US marines normally stationed in front of said embassy were conveniently absent - despite close to 300,000 Serbs gathered in the center of the city to protest Kosovo's UDI, CNN still felt it necessary to run the banner "Anti-American Riots throughout Belgrade" and make it look like the entire city was ablaze.
(Mike, 9 August 2010 17:16)
Mike lots of BS on your posts lately. Compared to a year or two years ago you've radicalized a lot. Just an observation. For example you say:"CNN still felt it necessary to run the banner "Anti-American Riots throughout Belgrade". What was wrong with that banner? Nothing. It was exactly that; Anti-American riots and they were through Belgrade because businesses were attacked, because other embassies were in flame. So there were riots in Belgrade and there were anti-American riots. That's exactly the truth. Hit youtube and watch for yourself. Then you talk about a crowd of 300'000 people and you expect a few marines to remain stationed in front of the embassy building despite the fact that riots were expected. You know the world is not black and white all the time but there are times where its just like that; black and white. In this case it was just like that black and white; good and bad. The bad where the Serbs who rioted, destroyed and burned. Its simple. This stuff will be reported no matter where it happens. Of course it doesn't help that Serbia is still the nuisance, from the West, it has been for decades now and is still seen as a possible aggressor. Riots only confirm such things. Take it easy. The world is not out to get Serbia but if you put yourselves into that position it will get you. We are in a new phase now where this is not only about Kosova. It seems this has turned into something bigger, and more important as the British US ambassador at the UNSC put it. Either you work with them or you're against them. Now they see you as an antagonist. That is not an enviable position to be in; hopefully it wont end up the same way as the 90's for Serbia.
pre 13 godina
@SJ Kosova is recognized by 69 not 67 countries, while Serbian FM is promising reversal of recognition yet the contrary is happening. Therefore respectfully I ask who is delusional? When it comes to investments, actually the world is surprised how the foreign companies (including Serbian firm Braca Karic) positively reacted to the privatization in Kosova. However, the lack of confidence does lie mainly on corrupt government in Kosova not because Serbia is convincing anyone not to invest in the region. While Serbia is signing deals with Iran, Kosova is partnering with U.S. Slovenia and other West partners. I also need to mention that even though Belgrade and Athens are using rhetoric to undermine the positive changes in the region, several private entrepreneurs have invested millions in Kosova and Albania.
Also notice the change on tone from Serbian FM compared to not even a year ago, maybe he is just preparing the rest of the nation to accept the inevitable truth.
Observe that even from Serbian standpoint in Kosova there are 2 separate Serbian communities and mentalities (north and south). The southern part is cooperating with authorities and have more than proportional representation in government and on major issues have the right of veto any decision. The north is fueled by Serbian extremists and subventioned by Belgrade is very unstable and the figures shows they receive more financial support that any other group in Kosova yet they do not pay taxes and utility bills.
I agree that Kosova would have been part of Serbia today if only Albanians were given the right to have their school system and allowed to use their language. But that was to much to ask and as response the special units were dispatched to crush the student uprising, followed by hundreds of unaccounted victims and more put in jail. Milosevic’s vision was not even to assimilate Albanians but simply to clear the region of Albanian population and he put the plan into action which resulted in NATO intervention. And the irony on this is that some Serb claim Kosova as their Jerusalem.
I wish Kosova a prosperous future and good relationship with Serbia and everyone else but first they have to replace their corrupt Government.
pre 13 godina
Albania is open to all Kosovo solutions (exclusively Presevo Valley, Novi Pazar and Nis) that aimed at consolidating the Unified Albania- which is a garanty for stability in the region.
(PRN, 9 August 2010 11:38)
On what basis should Albania have Presevo Valley, Nis and Novi Pazar? I think you are here just to wind everybody up since you keep repeating the same line over and over again.
Meanwhile in other news.....
Captain Frisco wasted valuable internet bandwith spouting the usual guff.
pre 13 godina
"Asked why Belgrade believes that Kosovo’s proclaimed independence should not be recognized, he said that it would be the first time in UN history that a secessionist territory achieved statehood without the consent of the parent state."
notice how 1244 is not mentioned anymore. notice how the history of the world has been restricted to the history of the UN. notice how the FM does not talk about "black holes" anymore. Notice how this will reinforce the belief of western diplomats on how to deal with Serbian diplomacy. The same pattern has been repeating over and over in the last 15 years. Only after being hit hard on the head Serbian diplomacy starts to cooperate.
pre 13 godina
Mr.Vuk,
Are you looking for the future or where...?
Seems that you are more focused what it is written in the book and not looking to the content. Take a look between lines please. Take both sides of the coins.
Kosova stil has missing peoples from you government. Your government killed, executed un guilty peoples only because they were Albanians. You have read about massacres that Milosevic regime did in the whole Balkan, than what you are looking next.
Don't lie international community, but tell them the truth, because you are devaluing the prestige of the Institutions where you studied.
pre 13 godina
"Albania is open to all Kosovo solutions (exclusively Presevo Valley, Novi Pazar and Nis) that aimed at consolidating the Unified Albania- which is a garanty for stability in the region."
(PRN)
-- More out of curiosity than striking up an intelligent conversation, but how do you validate giving Novi Pazar and Nis to Albania since no Albanians of any significant majority live there? I know you've been harping on this for a while now.
I'm curious to see what you answer is, and I'm even more curious to read how you justify giving lands not populated by Albanian to Albanians for the sake of stability in the region, as you say.
pre 13 godina
-- A good chunk of that blame has to go to outlets like CNN that still feel the need to divide parts of the world into good/bad and black/white. Two years ago when I was in BG and parts of the American embassy were burned by less than 50 Grobari idiots - and the US marines normally stationed in front of said embassy were conveniently absent - despite close to 300,000 Serbs gathered in the center of the city to protest Kosovo's UDI, CNN still felt it necessary to run the banner "Anti-American Riots throughout Belgrade" and make it look like the entire city was ablaze.
(Mike, 9 August 2010 17:16)
I guess you forgot to add that all US personnell were removed from the embassey prior to the incident, probably due to the fact that it was common knowledge it was going to be attacked.
Also that all Serbian police were absent from the area(wonder why?) also that the President of Serbia was out of the country during the "peaceful protest" saying he knew of Kostunica's game plan and wanted no part of it. It was blamed on "hooligans" so the govt could claim it was out of their hands while thumbing their noses at the same time.
To try to blame this as a propagnda piece for the US is on the same intelligent level as those who targeted a Serbian franchise of McDonalds which employed, Serbians, fed Serbians, and paid Serbian taxes.
pre 13 godina
Jeremic is slowly unveiling Serbias plan. I guess that this is making some Serbian regime supporters angry.
pre 13 godina
Asked why Belgrade believes that Kosovo’s proclaimed independence should not be recognized, he said that it would be the first time in UN history that a secessionist territory achieved statehood without the consent of the parent state.
So Jeremic makes up his own history of the world as he goes. Bangladesh brokeaway from Pakistan in 1971 in a very violent way and without the cosent of Pakistan.
pre 13 godina
We are open to "all" solutions, and by "all" we mean "all but independence".
Orwell would have been really proud of you Vuk.
pre 13 godina
Albanians who interpret Jeremic not mentioning Res. 1244 and being 'open to anything' to mean Serbia will recognize the UDI forget that that Jeremic also said 50 countries would immediately recognize the UDI after ICJ verdict yet nothing happened because IT'S TACTICAL - meant to give Albanians false hope.
pre 13 godina
Albania is open to all Kosovo solutions (exclusively Presevo Valley, Novi Pazar and Nis) that aimed at consolidating the Unified Albania- which is a garanty for stability in the region.
(PRN, 9 August 2010 11:38)
c`mon PRN-stealing cows and chickens from kursumlija is not enough.
pre 13 godina
"I agree that Kosova would have been part of Serbia today if only Albanians were given the right to have their school system and allowed to use their language. But that was to much to ask and as response the special units were dispatched to crush the student uprising, followed by hundreds of unaccounted victims and more put in jail."
======================
You certainly don't live on the same planet as the rest of us.
Albanians did have the right to use their own language and study in their own language. Please provide proof of what you are claiming.
pre 13 godina
"The importance of being in the EU as one of the second tier countries is being vastly overplayed.
(kate, 9 August 2010 11:23) "
Just watch what happens to the dinar the day after it becomes clear that Serbia is not going to join the EU. Serbia's Central Bank has spent almost 1.8 billion euros this year just to allow the dinar to depreciate slowly and gracefully. (The pace picked up after July 22, BTW - from ~0.05 RSD per day to ~0.25-0.50.) How long will Serbia continue to be able to borrow from the IMF to support its currency (needed for imports of oil, gas, grain ...) with no expectation of eventual incorporation into the European market and financial system?
pre 13 godina
"He stressed that Serbia is not only defending its constitutional, political and democratic rights..."
its a constitution in as far as kosovo goes, as hand-authored by Slobodan Milosovic... whatever democracy Serbs "discovered" they discovered soley for themselves.
and in as much as they desperately try to distance themselves from slobo today... he IS the father of modern day Serbia and His legacy that they defend and wave about at kosovo as a source of authority.
pre 13 godina
Johhny you sound as obsessed with the constitution as Kostunica is.
As I told you before the constitution can be changed. Also world history is littered with examples of constitutions being broken or 'interpreted' one way or the other.
pre 13 godina
How can you be open to all solutions when your "constitution" says that "Kosovo is an inaleniable part of Serbia"??
In my book, this is hipocrisy.
You can pay all the PR firms to get you interviews with CNN and other networks, but unless you change your quasi-constitution, no one will take you seriously.
PR alone won't do it - must act "in good will".
Oh yeah, and a public apology for war crimes in Kosovo would also be appropriate!
pre 13 godina
I wonder if anyone takes this seriously.
This is not for the Serbians, nor the Albanians, hoping that the west would say"hey this is a way to secure the independence of Kosovo" and pressure the Kosovo govt to enter into negotiations.
But once negotiations were to start, all new recognitions would cease and Serbia could sit at the table for decades while Kosovo is continually held in limbo.
Any negotiations should be over what it will take for Serbia to accept the independence of Kosovo and not the independence itself.
pre 13 godina
Is there a video of the entire conversation online?
pre 13 godina
Key Facts, paragraph 7 & 8. And dont ever doubt that Kosovo Albanians weren't mistreated and humiliated by the Serbian-backed government. That's why no one wanted to be in the same country with you guys
(Zena, 10 August 2010 17:43)
====================
What that article tells me is that Albanians had it really good in Yugoslavia but were still not happy and started to make trouble. That's why Milosevic took away your Autonomy. Instead of realising you had it all your way, you started causing trouble with a little help from your pals outside of the country. Then you wonder what happened.
Actually this article doesn't portray you in a very good light. All it says is what I have just said to you. You had it good, didn't respect it, Milosevic cracked down and the rest is history.
pre 13 godina
(roberto, 9 August 2010 19:36)
Brilliant Roberto, you are coming to realise that Serbia proper will NEVER; let me repeat it again NEVER wash its hands of Republika Srpska nor Kosovo. Regardless of what the current regime says it will never dare betray Serbs in those regions.
When your beloved US hands over its war criminals to the International Court, and there are plenty that have killed in the name of democracy and freedom, then I’ll consider handing over Ratko Mladic otherwise you can rant all you like and plead with the international community for help in Bosnia, but its all falling on deaf ears.
Natasha Kandic is a “human rights” activitist which means that as long as you peddle western nonsense you get paid and you get time in western media, but no one respects her in Serbia. Human rights groups are a JOKE simply because they are controlled by the US intelligence services – ask yourself how many time has Amnesty International openly criticized the US government over the killings of innocents in Afghanistan – very, very little. Every now and then you might find a small article on page 75 of your newspaper and that’s to say that at least they get in print.
Here is some news for you. The west killed 10,000 Albanians during the Kosovo war – even Ehud Olmert, former Israeli PM admitted that one. Do some research and read up on it.
“May 10th, for an exhumation of yet another "alleged" mass grave in S Serbia”.
This is BS at its best. They have not exhumed because they know there is nothing there. It was the western paid Serbs that came out with this one just before the ICJ opinion to further influence those judicial clowns that gave that “dog’s breakfast” of an opinion.
All Serbia has to do is wait. I understand your frustration, demanding that something be done, but the US can do absolutely NOTHING – it would like to finalise this, but its no longer the power it was in the 1990s. You see the west is only standing on its feet because the EU and US are propping up each other – what I like to call the Alamo stand.
Here is some more sad news.
You recall the US and South Korea holding exercises in the Yellow Sea then China objected then the US admiral in charge was about to move operations then Washington announced that it would not. It did move its operations but the US government did not tell its people – Washington’s statement that it would not leave the Yellow Sea was for domestic consumption only.
Getting the picture now?
pre 13 godina
You certainly don't live on the same planet as the rest of us.
Albanians did have the right to use their own language and study in their own language. Please provide proof of what you are claiming.
(Peggy, 10 August 2010 04:52)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Right here Peggy, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/special_report/1998/kosovo2/61354.stm
Key Facts, paragraph 7 & 8. And dont ever doubt that Kosovo Albanians weren't mistreated and humiliated by the Serbian-backed government. That's why no one wanted to be in the same country with you guys
pre 13 godina
"It was exactly that; Anti-American riots and they were through Belgrade because businesses were attacked, because other embassies were in flame. So there were riots in Belgrade and there were anti-American riots. That's exactly the truth. Hit youtube and watch for yourself." (johny)
--- Taking up your offer, I remember this little viral that was all the rage on YouTube a few days after the "anti-American" riots
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E66gb9pSQi0
No anti-Americanism here. Just mindless looting. The cameramen even seemed to be enjoying mocking their hypocrisy. Looting a Serbian store for what could have been American products. I know, call in an air raid.
So most, if not all, of the businesses you referred to were Serbian owned. The kids who trashed the McDonald's at Slavija Square went to another McDonald's at Zeleni Venac afterwards to get something to eat.
Anti-American? No. Stupid? Beyond words.
As far as the embassy attacks, there might have been anywhere from 100 - 200 hooligans who were probably more interested in causing mayhem, knowing most if not all of the actual crowd at the time was in front of St. Sava's (including myself). And I'll bet you your choice of beer that for every 10 of these idiots, 9 hadn't ever been to Mitrovica, let alone Kosovo.
And the only person who died in the American embassy was, ironically, a K-Serb.
"This stuff will be reported no matter where it happens."
-- And that is exactly what I thought when I heard it all happened: "man, CNN is going to have a field day with this."
pre 13 godina
SJ
What you saying is not true. Just because Olmert said something emotionally, that is not true either.
Following what you said once after NATO campaign ended you would see only relics from Serbian cities and towns. This was not the case.
Of course you have seen parts of Kosovo being totally burned by serbian soldiers and paramilitaries.
pre 13 godina
1.
""The north of Kosovo is not subject to any compromise.
The north of Kosovo is Serbian.
At least with regard to the north of the Kosovo, we should keep all - necessary and appropriate - options open.
The Serbs, Roma, etc. in Kosovo have a right to become
protected against violence, murder and ethnic cleansing;
incidents like those which occured in 2004 must not happen again.
(dht, 9 August 2010 12:15)""
2.
"Yes, they have a right to be protected from all wrong doing.
But answer me this.
Did the Bosnians have a right to be protected from the horrors of the early 90's.
Your using the word "ethnic cleansing", which was created by the West and the Media, to describe your actions in the 90's.
By arguing against this, you would be arguing for a lost cause. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.
Yes, they have EVERY right in the world, to be protected from the Albanians, but if you think about it. How do the Bosnians and Croatians feel with RS and RSKrajina? They don't feel happy, like I said, an eye for an eye.
Before you jump to the defense of people you don't know, think about what your country has done to other countries.
(Sandro, 10 August 2010 18:59)"
3. dht´s reply:
3.1
concerning the "RSKrajina-Croatia"-issue:
In 1990 the majority in the Krajina and Western Slavonia was Serbian.
So the Serbs in these areas had the right to refuse to take part in Croatia´s becoming independent from Yugoslavia.
Sandro, if you would know and could imagine the crimes commited by the Croatian Ustaše against the Serbs in Krajina and Slavonia, you should understand the Serbs:
More than half a million Serbs (including hundreds of thousand children) have been - really - slaughtered by the Ustaše.
It is a crime commited by the western countries that they acknowledged Croatia´s independence without exempting those territories from the acknowledgement where the majority was Serb.
(The same crime has been recently commited in the "Kosovo"-case.)
So the victims of a genocide, the Serbs in Croatia, have become victims a second time.
3.2 concerning the "Bosnian muslims"-issue:
Yes, we should be sad about what happened to many Bosnian muslims.
However, the Kosovo Serbs, Roma, etc. have not lost their right to become protected against crimes because some Serbs in Bosnia have commited crimes against Bosnian muslims.
pre 13 godina
"I guess you forgot to add that all US personnell were removed from the embassey prior to the incident, probably due to the fact that it was common knowledge it was going to be attacked." (get a grip)
-- And where did they go? To the Ambassador's posh residence in Dedinje, a spit throw away from TV Pink and Ceca's God-ugly mansion. I did appreciate the phone call I got from a State Dept. rep offering me a trip out of the country "for my safety". But it was pretty obvious 30 min after the attack that it "anti-American" was largely a fabrication. And I had already paid a three month deposit on my apartment. Non-refundable.
"Mike lots of BS on your posts lately. Compared to a year or two years ago you've radicalized a lot." (johny)
-- I could say the same about yours. I can actually remember when you made sense. Now you sound like the consummate Orwellian nationalist who gets pissed at the slightest infraction on his side or the subtle praise or a rival organization. You're really angry of late. Chill man, because you're waging a battle with me that I have no interest in responding in kind to.
"For example you say:"CNN still felt it necessary to run the banner "Anti-American Riots throughout Belgrade". What was wrong with that banner?"
-- It's simply not true. I was there. Lots of other Americans were there and all of us were disgusted with the media coverage. And as an American I felt no problem whatsoever as long as you didn't purposefully stick your nose in front of these "hooligans". And that's a general rule of thumb no matter where anyone goes.
"...because other embassies were in flame."
-- Stones were thrown at the Croatian and Turkish embassy. And there were guards at the Croatian embassy that chased them away. Where were the Marines? Knowing these idiots that attacked the embassy, the US Marines could have chased them away in 5 seconds.
"That's exactly the truth."
-- No it's your opinion. I don't need you to tell me what was going on where I was and you weren't.
"Then you talk about a crowd of 300'000 people and you expect a few marines to remain stationed in front of the embassy building despite the fact that riots were expected."
-- For 300,000 people, over 290,500 were peaceful. The riots that ensued were in some cases more benign than anything following a Partizan-Zvezdara game. If you think 300,000 people were running amok, you're wrong. If you think it was more than 100 people, you're wrong.
Where have I radicalized? I challenge you to find one thing in my posts that does not take into account the maximum demands of both Serbs and Albanians, the advantages and disadvantages of major international powers, and an optimal solution for a resolved Kosovo in whatever capacity it finds itself in that allows both communities maximum control of their own affairs. I really can’t find a reason for your aggressiveness of late.
pre 13 godina
Here is some news for you. The west killed 10,000 Albanians during the Kosovo war – even Ehud Olmert, former Israeli PM admitted that one. Do some research and read up on it.
SJ
When I was kicked out of my home I have seen serbian soldiers and paramilitaries coming to my house and no NATO or anyone else.
I don't care what Olmert said when I have experienced serbian soldiers and paramilitaries myself.
pre 13 godina
The north of Kosovo is not subject to any compromise.
The north of Kosovo is Serbian.
At least with regard to the north of the Kosovo, we should keep all - necessary and appropriate - options open.
The Serbs, Roma, etc. in Kosovo have a right to become
protected against violence, murder and ethnic cleansing;
incidents like those which occured in 2004 must not happen again.
(dht, 9 August 2010 12:15)
Yes, they have a right to be protected from all wrong doing.
But answer me this.
Did the Bosnians have a right to be protected from the horrors of the early 90's.
Your using the word "ethnic cleansing", which was created by the West and the Media, to describe your actions in the 90's.
By arguing against this, you would be arguing for a lost cause. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.
Yes, they have EVERY right in the world, to be protected from the Albanians, but if you think about it. How do the Bosnians and Croatians feel with RS and RSKrajina? They don't feel happy, like I said, an eye for an eye.
Before you jump to the defense of people you don't know, think about what your country has done to other countries.
pre 13 godina
When I was kicked out of my home I have seen serbian soldiers and paramilitaries coming to my house and no NATO or anyone else.
I don't care what Olmert said when I have experienced serbian soldiers and paramilitaries myself.
(Simpatiku, 10 August 2010 17:01)
I’m sure you did experience Serbian soldiers and paras as you say, but the facts are facts and it was the indiscriminate bombing of NATO that killed 10 000 in Kosovo. Hey, they threw everything everywhere without thought of who or what was killed – look at Afghanistan. All deaths would be blamed on Milosevic – that is how they think.
Ehud Olmert was furious at being critised by the EU for attacking Lebanon ion 2006 and made that statement out of sheer anger “where do they get to blame Israel when the EU killed 10 000 people in ksoovo and no one fired a shot at them”.
pre 13 godina
jeremic said they "only said no to unitalirate declaration of independence"
you said no to everything !!! you refused even a neutral status ofered by "troyka" that was ishinger idea , wich even kosovo institution didnt acept..i know you want that now but i am afriad its to late!!
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