NATO “double standard for Kosovo, Georgia”

How can the Russians with a straight face call others out about double standards. What about them? If they're so worried about double standards, and they've recognized South Ossetia and Abkhazia, why don't they recognize Kosovo too?

Russia should immediately close their airspace to Afghanistan for Nato planes should the latter (or, more precisely, the Yankees) misbehave over Georgia!

Because Kosovo is land theft, AC. There is a big difference. Kosovo was never Albanian, yes, Albanians lived there, but it was never a country. It is a province of Serbia.

LMAO Russia talking about double standard, the hypocrisy of these Russians is astonishing. Recognizing Kosovo will open pandor box, but recognizing Abkaz and SO will not. These Russians are funny and very immature, how the hell do they think their fooling. Russia you are not important, the west decides not you. Russians thinking their important haha.

Really funny. First, of course he's right, it's double standards.

But: The same applies to Russia after they recognized South Ossetia, a split-off 'country' from Georgia.

Now nobody can say that Russia respects "international law" and "territorial integrity."

Russia should immediately close their airspace to Afghanistan for Nato planes should the latter (or, more precisely, the Yankees) misbehave over Georgia!
(lowe, 7 August 2010 15:10)
That would be a very wise decision, then the US/NATO would be forced to withdraw from Afgahnistan (a big boost for us here in the US) and Russia would be left to deal with the issues in their neighborhood. I am sure they are really eager considering the fiasco of the 80's after Russia invaded and spent 10 years there learning it was a no win situation.
Russia wants the US there more than you think.

Very ironic a Russian diplomat uses the phrase "double standard" in relation to Serbia and Georgia.

In any case, unilateral declarations are not a valid avenue for independence.

Russia should immediately close their airspace to Afghanistan for Nato planes should the latter (or, more precisely, the Yankees) misbehave over Georgia!
(lowe, 7 August 2010 15:10)

Russia may have double standards, but it's not stupid. Afghanistan and Pakistan are much closer to Russia than US. Russia does not have any interest in extremist islamists running a country close to it's borders, or even worse, the nuclear Pakistan. Russia must be very satisfied that the job is being done with American money and soldiers rather than it's own with Russia providing just the airspace which does not cost anything.

There are ways Russia can undermine US other than sabotaging NATO operations in Afghanistan and Pakistan which ultimeately would damage more Russia itself than NATO.

"it was after nato bombing, after un1244, psuedoslavia was promptly required to re-apply for un membership...that it eventually became "in name" the republic of serbia is irrelevant, the fact of the matter is...kosovo was already a UN protecotorate, serbia has never held it at all.
(AdamNYC, 8 August 2010 07:49) "

Boy, are you confused! And confused big time too!

Belgrade was admitted to the UN in November 2000 under the name Yugoslavia. The name changed in 2003 to Serbia and Montenegro.

In 2006 Montenegro became independent and had to reapply to the UN as a new member. Serbia retained her UN seat as successor to the former Serbia and Montenegro.

You are clear now, I hope.

Let's see what the ICJ has to say about this. About an hour after the Russians entered So. Ossetia, Saakashvili (an American-trained lawyer) took Russia to court - he's charging them with violation of the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination.

Russia claims the Court doesn't have jurisdiction, and motions and counter-motions have been going back and forth. Now the ICJ has just announced that public hearings (on Russia's objections) will be held in mid-September. (Press release here: http://www.icj-cij.org/presscom/index.php?pr=2291&pt=1&p1=6&p2=1&PHPSESSID=bf177e391256d9ec6e8cdad314916bf9).

September should be an interesting month. There are some international rules (against torture, slavery, etc.) that countries are not free to ignore under international law - Georgia may be onto something. Ignoring an advisory opinion is one thing, violating an International Convention is another.

Let's all applaud Nauru, the one country which recognised South Ossetia, Abkhazia and Kosovo and therefore didn't show any double standards and can actually talk about the 2 situations.

"That would be a very wise decision, then the US/NATO would be forced to withdraw from Afgahnistan (a big boost for us here in the US) and Russia would be left to deal with the issues in their neighborhood. I am sure they are really eager considering the fiasco of the 80's after Russia invaded and spent 10 years there learning it was a no win situation.
Russia wants the US there more than you think.
(pss, 7 August 2010 21:46) "

what makes you so sure that the Russians are not in fact secretly helping the Talaban right now? What makes you think the Russians love you guys so much that they would never want to see you humiliated?

But you are right about the US leaving. You guys will have to leave eventually. And leave in DEFEAT. And then you will have THE Talaban reasserting itself and grateful to Moscow. Bad for the Russians? I hardly think so.

I dont think there is a single standard or even a double standard as each case has differing components.

East European borders that were primarily established after WW2 by force under Stalin’s USSR conquest and took control and occupied half of Europe and the loss of state independence to the Soviet Union for 45 years. In the contemporary setting, we cannot hide behind alleged international law and allow states to murder or abuse their own minority populations. Sometimes military intervention is necessary and sometimes state separation is essential.

Russia may have double standards, but it's not stupid. Afghanistan and Pakistan are much closer to Russia than US. Russia does not have any interest in extremist islamists running a country close to it's borders
=======================

The US keeps changing their mind when it comes to who they support. They supported Russia's enemy first and now the other side. It really won't matter to Russia who they support as the US is there for their own interest and will continue to be there even if Russia withdraws it's support.
MONEY, OIL, DRUGS are the reason US is there and they will stay there for as long as it is profitable for them.
I say Russia should withdraw support and make it even harder for the yanks.

I don't know what the South Ossetia War has to do with racial discrimination Amer and if it does I don't know if Georgia has any higher ground to stand on than Russia.

Actually I wouldn't be so quick to congratulate Naura on grounds of principles .... how do we know it didn't accepted bribes from both sides? It used to switch recognition between Taiwan and China back and forth in the past.
(lowe, 8 August 2010 16:50)
==========================

I wouldn't worry about what Nauru does at all. Nauru is desperately trying to become Australia's dumping ground for unwanted refugees again.
They have just put their hand up to take them again since Timor has refused. Any source of income is welcome and I guess bribes are more than welcome.

@winston

the country was yugoslavia, yes serbs hid behind the word and used the pretense of "protecting" yugoslavia as they tried tried to reinvent it... sure they should have left the former sfry first, but then they couldnt have attempted stealin it all, to bad they failed.

as it is, milosovics "yugoslavia" was never recognized as a continuation of the former sfry...even by their beloved russians.

it was after nato bombing, after un1244, psuedoslavia was promptly required to re-apply for un membership...that it eventually became "in name" the republic of serbia is irrelevant, the fact of the matter is...kosovo was already a UN protecotorate, serbia has never held it at all.

"You are reaffirming what he said and then saying he is confused?
He says Serbia entered UN post NATO bombing and UNSC 1244 (after 1999). You say Serbia entered as Yugoslavia in 2000.
(Clear the confusion, 8 August 2010 17:22) "

If you wanna "Clear the confusion", then please get clear about this and stop confusing matters even further! Serbia did not "entered as Yugoslavia in 2000". Serbia AND Montenegro entered as Yugoslavia in 2000. Serbia however eventually became the sole successor to the 2000 Yugoslav seat.

"Because Kosovo is land theft, AC. There is a big difference. Kosovo was never Albanian, yes, Albanians lived there, but it was never a country. It is a province of Serbia.
(winston, 7 August 2010 17:23) "

Abkhazia and Samachablo are provinces of Georgia. The "South Ossetian Autonomous Region" was formed by the Bolsheviks in Samachablo only in the 1920s. (Abkhazia had belonged to everybody, at one time or another throughout its history.)

Mr.Dmitry Rogozin
"NATO support territorial integrity of Georgia but not Serbia"What a contradiction;
NATO entered Serbia legally with UN resolution 1244 which explicitly guarantee sovereignty and territorial integrity of Serbia.What one can say about this sinister alliance except; Nothing but a trash.Neither Russia or Serbia should ever entertain notion to join this low life military alliance.Make no mistake Mr.Rogozin what ever they did to Serbia in 1999 they would do to you even worse if they could.

"Let's all applaud Nauru, the one country which recognised South Ossetia, Abkhazia and Kosovo and therefore didn't show any double standards and can actually talk about the 2 situations.
(Sam, UK, 8 August 2010 12:47) "

Sam,

Actually I wouldn't be so quick to congratulate Naura on grounds of principles .... how do we know it didn't accepted bribes from both sides? It used to switch recognition between Taiwan and China back and forth in the past.

"How is this different from saying Russia is applying a double standard by not recognizing Georgia's sovereignty but recognizing Serbia's?

How many more of these clowns do the Russians have. Why do you bring attention to your own hypocrisies Rogozin? That is not what a seasoned diplomat does? Unless you're a Russia and got the position because you lick Putin's boots. Nepotism maybe?
(johny, 9 August 2010 18:45) "

Blame the Russians over Georgia's predicament? I rather think the blame should be squarely on the Yankees -- they started everything in the first place with their invasion of Kosovo.

As for people licking Putin's boots, aren't you guys in "Kosova" doing the same to Yankee boots? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

"I don't know what the South Ossetia War has to do with racial discrimination Amer and if it does I don't know if Georgia has any higher ground to stand on than Russia.
(Sam, UK, 8 August 2010 12:43) "

Georgians were forced out of both provinces (by Russian forces) and have not been allowed to return. If they are allowed to return, they will be a majority in Abkhazia (as they were before being expelled) and a very large minority (about 1/3, I think) in SO. Neither ethnic Abkhazians nor Ossetians were driven out - those who were expelled and are now being refused re-entry were determined on an ethnic basis, thus violating their human rights.

"Any source of income is welcome and I guess bribes are more than welcome.
(Peggy, 8 August 2010 22:42) "

There was a fair amount of chatter about Naura's recognitions in the Russian forums at the time. (Russians were mortified at having to engage so obviously in checkbook diplomacy.) The Naurans? Naureans? sent a representative or a delegation to SO (I think? maybe Moscow) and got a bit carried away with all the attention and said they were going to go back to the South Pacific and start encouraging all the other islands to sell recognitions and get rich. (I think it was $500,000 they got - but it was a while ago.) And then there was a sudden silence, and no trip to the other of the two new "republics" - I always figured Australia told them to get their bodies back home, fast, if they wanted their annual payment to arrive on time. But this part was not reported in Izvestia, at least, so I may have the details wrong.

How is this different from saying Russia is applying a double standard by not recognizing Georgia's sovereignty but recognizing Serbia's?

How many more of these clowns do the Russians have. Why do you bring attention to your own hypocrisies Rogozin? That is not what a seasoned diplomat does? Unless you're a Russia and got the position because you lick Putin's boots. Nepotism maybe?

What.The russian federation is not doing anything new.They are doing the same they did all the time.They are protecting their hypotetic interests in balkans because they havent realistic ones.Serbian people must decide wich part of world they belong to.They are in the middle of the NATO members area.If they want to be a toy and nothing other on the hands of russia.wellcome but it is against their interests.They must accept either that the tragedy they caused all over the balkans under miloscevic was real and not a fantasy of all the FREE world.

"it was after nato bombing, after un1244, psuedoslavia was promptly required to re-apply for un membership...that it eventually became "in name" the republic of serbia is irrelevant, the fact of the matter is...kosovo was already a UN protecotorate, serbia has never held it at all.
(AdamNYC, 8 August 2010 07:49) "

Boy, are you confused! And confused big time too!

Belgrade was admitted to the UN in November 2000 under the name Yugoslavia. The name changed in 2003 to Serbia and Montenegro.

In 2006 Montenegro became independent and had to reapply to the UN as a new member. Serbia retained her UN seat as successor to the former Serbia and Montenegro.

You are clear now, I hope.
(lowe, 8 August 2010 14:10)
You are reaffirming what he said and then saying he is confused?
He says Serbia entered UN post NATO bombing and UNSC 1244 (after 1999). You say Serbia entered as Yugoslavia in 2000.

How can the Russians with a straight face call others out about double standards. What about them? If they're so worried about double standards, and they've recognized South Ossetia and Abkhazia, why don't they recognize Kosovo too?

Russia should immediately close their airspace to Afghanistan for Nato planes should the latter (or, more precisely, the Yankees) misbehave over Georgia!

LMAO Russia talking about double standard, the hypocrisy of these Russians is astonishing. Recognizing Kosovo will open pandor box, but recognizing Abkaz and SO will not. These Russians are funny and very immature, how the hell do they think their fooling. Russia you are not important, the west decides not you. Russians thinking their important haha.

Very ironic a Russian diplomat uses the phrase "double standard" in relation to Serbia and Georgia.

Let's see what the ICJ has to say about this. About an hour after the Russians entered So. Ossetia, Saakashvili (an American-trained lawyer) took Russia to court - he's charging them with violation of the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination.

Russia claims the Court doesn't have jurisdiction, and motions and counter-motions have been going back and forth. Now the ICJ has just announced that public hearings (on Russia's objections) will be held in mid-September. (Press release here: http://www.icj-cij.org/presscom/index.php?pr=2291&pt=1&p1=6&p2=1&PHPSESSID=bf177e391256d9ec6e8cdad314916bf9).

September should be an interesting month. There are some international rules (against torture, slavery, etc.) that countries are not free to ignore under international law - Georgia may be onto something. Ignoring an advisory opinion is one thing, violating an International Convention is another.

@winston

the country was yugoslavia, yes serbs hid behind the word and used the pretense of "protecting" yugoslavia as they tried tried to reinvent it... sure they should have left the former sfry first, but then they couldnt have attempted stealin it all, to bad they failed.

as it is, milosovics "yugoslavia" was never recognized as a continuation of the former sfry...even by their beloved russians.

it was after nato bombing, after un1244, psuedoslavia was promptly required to re-apply for un membership...that it eventually became "in name" the republic of serbia is irrelevant, the fact of the matter is...kosovo was already a UN protecotorate, serbia has never held it at all.

Because Kosovo is land theft, AC. There is a big difference. Kosovo was never Albanian, yes, Albanians lived there, but it was never a country. It is a province of Serbia.

"Because Kosovo is land theft, AC. There is a big difference. Kosovo was never Albanian, yes, Albanians lived there, but it was never a country. It is a province of Serbia.
(winston, 7 August 2010 17:23) "

Abkhazia and Samachablo are provinces of Georgia. The "South Ossetian Autonomous Region" was formed by the Bolsheviks in Samachablo only in the 1920s. (Abkhazia had belonged to everybody, at one time or another throughout its history.)

Really funny. First, of course he's right, it's double standards.

But: The same applies to Russia after they recognized South Ossetia, a split-off 'country' from Georgia.

Now nobody can say that Russia respects "international law" and "territorial integrity."

Russia should immediately close their airspace to Afghanistan for Nato planes should the latter (or, more precisely, the Yankees) misbehave over Georgia!
(lowe, 7 August 2010 15:10)
That would be a very wise decision, then the US/NATO would be forced to withdraw from Afgahnistan (a big boost for us here in the US) and Russia would be left to deal with the issues in their neighborhood. I am sure they are really eager considering the fiasco of the 80's after Russia invaded and spent 10 years there learning it was a no win situation.
Russia wants the US there more than you think.

I dont think there is a single standard or even a double standard as each case has differing components.

East European borders that were primarily established after WW2 by force under Stalin’s USSR conquest and took control and occupied half of Europe and the loss of state independence to the Soviet Union for 45 years. In the contemporary setting, we cannot hide behind alleged international law and allow states to murder or abuse their own minority populations. Sometimes military intervention is necessary and sometimes state separation is essential.

Russia should immediately close their airspace to Afghanistan for Nato planes should the latter (or, more precisely, the Yankees) misbehave over Georgia!
(lowe, 7 August 2010 15:10)

Russia may have double standards, but it's not stupid. Afghanistan and Pakistan are much closer to Russia than US. Russia does not have any interest in extremist islamists running a country close to it's borders, or even worse, the nuclear Pakistan. Russia must be very satisfied that the job is being done with American money and soldiers rather than it's own with Russia providing just the airspace which does not cost anything.

There are ways Russia can undermine US other than sabotaging NATO operations in Afghanistan and Pakistan which ultimeately would damage more Russia itself than NATO.

How is this different from saying Russia is applying a double standard by not recognizing Georgia's sovereignty but recognizing Serbia's?

How many more of these clowns do the Russians have. Why do you bring attention to your own hypocrisies Rogozin? That is not what a seasoned diplomat does? Unless you're a Russia and got the position because you lick Putin's boots. Nepotism maybe?

In any case, unilateral declarations are not a valid avenue for independence.

"I don't know what the South Ossetia War has to do with racial discrimination Amer and if it does I don't know if Georgia has any higher ground to stand on than Russia.
(Sam, UK, 8 August 2010 12:43) "

Georgians were forced out of both provinces (by Russian forces) and have not been allowed to return. If they are allowed to return, they will be a majority in Abkhazia (as they were before being expelled) and a very large minority (about 1/3, I think) in SO. Neither ethnic Abkhazians nor Ossetians were driven out - those who were expelled and are now being refused re-entry were determined on an ethnic basis, thus violating their human rights.

Russia may have double standards, but it's not stupid. Afghanistan and Pakistan are much closer to Russia than US. Russia does not have any interest in extremist islamists running a country close to it's borders
=======================

The US keeps changing their mind when it comes to who they support. They supported Russia's enemy first and now the other side. It really won't matter to Russia who they support as the US is there for their own interest and will continue to be there even if Russia withdraws it's support.
MONEY, OIL, DRUGS are the reason US is there and they will stay there for as long as it is profitable for them.
I say Russia should withdraw support and make it even harder for the yanks.

"That would be a very wise decision, then the US/NATO would be forced to withdraw from Afgahnistan (a big boost for us here in the US) and Russia would be left to deal with the issues in their neighborhood. I am sure they are really eager considering the fiasco of the 80's after Russia invaded and spent 10 years there learning it was a no win situation.
Russia wants the US there more than you think.
(pss, 7 August 2010 21:46) "

what makes you so sure that the Russians are not in fact secretly helping the Talaban right now? What makes you think the Russians love you guys so much that they would never want to see you humiliated?

But you are right about the US leaving. You guys will have to leave eventually. And leave in DEFEAT. And then you will have THE Talaban reasserting itself and grateful to Moscow. Bad for the Russians? I hardly think so.

What.The russian federation is not doing anything new.They are doing the same they did all the time.They are protecting their hypotetic interests in balkans because they havent realistic ones.Serbian people must decide wich part of world they belong to.They are in the middle of the NATO members area.If they want to be a toy and nothing other on the hands of russia.wellcome but it is against their interests.They must accept either that the tragedy they caused all over the balkans under miloscevic was real and not a fantasy of all the FREE world.

"it was after nato bombing, after un1244, psuedoslavia was promptly required to re-apply for un membership...that it eventually became "in name" the republic of serbia is irrelevant, the fact of the matter is...kosovo was already a UN protecotorate, serbia has never held it at all.
(AdamNYC, 8 August 2010 07:49) "

Boy, are you confused! And confused big time too!

Belgrade was admitted to the UN in November 2000 under the name Yugoslavia. The name changed in 2003 to Serbia and Montenegro.

In 2006 Montenegro became independent and had to reapply to the UN as a new member. Serbia retained her UN seat as successor to the former Serbia and Montenegro.

You are clear now, I hope.
(lowe, 8 August 2010 14:10)
You are reaffirming what he said and then saying he is confused?
He says Serbia entered UN post NATO bombing and UNSC 1244 (after 1999). You say Serbia entered as Yugoslavia in 2000.

"Any source of income is welcome and I guess bribes are more than welcome.
(Peggy, 8 August 2010 22:42) "

There was a fair amount of chatter about Naura's recognitions in the Russian forums at the time. (Russians were mortified at having to engage so obviously in checkbook diplomacy.) The Naurans? Naureans? sent a representative or a delegation to SO (I think? maybe Moscow) and got a bit carried away with all the attention and said they were going to go back to the South Pacific and start encouraging all the other islands to sell recognitions and get rich. (I think it was $500,000 they got - but it was a while ago.) And then there was a sudden silence, and no trip to the other of the two new "republics" - I always figured Australia told them to get their bodies back home, fast, if they wanted their annual payment to arrive on time. But this part was not reported in Izvestia, at least, so I may have the details wrong.

Mr.Dmitry Rogozin
"NATO support territorial integrity of Georgia but not Serbia"What a contradiction;
NATO entered Serbia legally with UN resolution 1244 which explicitly guarantee sovereignty and territorial integrity of Serbia.What one can say about this sinister alliance except; Nothing but a trash.Neither Russia or Serbia should ever entertain notion to join this low life military alliance.Make no mistake Mr.Rogozin what ever they did to Serbia in 1999 they would do to you even worse if they could.

I don't know what the South Ossetia War has to do with racial discrimination Amer and if it does I don't know if Georgia has any higher ground to stand on than Russia.

"it was after nato bombing, after un1244, psuedoslavia was promptly required to re-apply for un membership...that it eventually became "in name" the republic of serbia is irrelevant, the fact of the matter is...kosovo was already a UN protecotorate, serbia has never held it at all.
(AdamNYC, 8 August 2010 07:49) "

Boy, are you confused! And confused big time too!

Belgrade was admitted to the UN in November 2000 under the name Yugoslavia. The name changed in 2003 to Serbia and Montenegro.

In 2006 Montenegro became independent and had to reapply to the UN as a new member. Serbia retained her UN seat as successor to the former Serbia and Montenegro.

You are clear now, I hope.

"Let's all applaud Nauru, the one country which recognised South Ossetia, Abkhazia and Kosovo and therefore didn't show any double standards and can actually talk about the 2 situations.
(Sam, UK, 8 August 2010 12:47) "

Sam,

Actually I wouldn't be so quick to congratulate Naura on grounds of principles .... how do we know it didn't accepted bribes from both sides? It used to switch recognition between Taiwan and China back and forth in the past.

"You are reaffirming what he said and then saying he is confused?
He says Serbia entered UN post NATO bombing and UNSC 1244 (after 1999). You say Serbia entered as Yugoslavia in 2000.
(Clear the confusion, 8 August 2010 17:22) "

If you wanna "Clear the confusion", then please get clear about this and stop confusing matters even further! Serbia did not "entered as Yugoslavia in 2000". Serbia AND Montenegro entered as Yugoslavia in 2000. Serbia however eventually became the sole successor to the 2000 Yugoslav seat.

"How is this different from saying Russia is applying a double standard by not recognizing Georgia's sovereignty but recognizing Serbia's?

How many more of these clowns do the Russians have. Why do you bring attention to your own hypocrisies Rogozin? That is not what a seasoned diplomat does? Unless you're a Russia and got the position because you lick Putin's boots. Nepotism maybe?
(johny, 9 August 2010 18:45) "

Blame the Russians over Georgia's predicament? I rather think the blame should be squarely on the Yankees -- they started everything in the first place with their invasion of Kosovo.

As for people licking Putin's boots, aren't you guys in "Kosova" doing the same to Yankee boots? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

Let's all applaud Nauru, the one country which recognised South Ossetia, Abkhazia and Kosovo and therefore didn't show any double standards and can actually talk about the 2 situations.

Actually I wouldn't be so quick to congratulate Naura on grounds of principles .... how do we know it didn't accepted bribes from both sides? It used to switch recognition between Taiwan and China back and forth in the past.
(lowe, 8 August 2010 16:50)
==========================

I wouldn't worry about what Nauru does at all. Nauru is desperately trying to become Australia's dumping ground for unwanted refugees again.
They have just put their hand up to take them again since Timor has refused. Any source of income is welcome and I guess bribes are more than welcome.