Russia will support Serbia's UNGA draft

'Churking was quoted as saying that the British envoy's words "could almost be seen as a threat", Radio Voice of Russia reported.'

I always liked Churkin, he has been a strong supporter of Serbia always, and as you can see is calling it like he sees it. What is it with the Brits these days? They still seem to think they are an empire the way they behave. Reality will set in, and they will soon realize that they are bankrupt, they have an economy where they manufacture almost nothing and just move money around from place to place, and they have become German lap dogs when it comes to the Kosovo issue.
Is anybody over there actually in tune with what is going on in Kosovo, the inhuman conditions that non-albanians have to live in? Do they have no shame?

There is a lot of illogic in all of this..i read in previous article that Jeremic strongly committed Serbia to EU..than he submitted a draft resolution of great importance for his country to USG council..than the document will be voted and approved by Russia while Eu is against (22-27 and all major countries)...Is this normal? Does this game of empty words keep going for long? I still think that for Serbia the future will be of double "Niet".. No kosovo and no EU

'Have you noticed that the NAZI, Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian Empires don't exist anymore? Serbia has a good reputation for destroying empires. I suppose that's why we're not liked so much in some spheres.

Anyway, who's next? I suspect the next empire will die without a war. Lets try to achieve it in a dipomatic way this time. ROFL!!
(Zoran, 4 August 2010 14:34)

Zorane,
Yes, Serbia is a rock on which empires break. The next one to go down I think will be the EU. Serbia has already managed to split them over Kosovo. And whatever happened to the UN resolution on Kosovo that the EU was supposed to send?? Oh right, they couldn't all agree so it was scrapped :).
Cheers!!

"The ambassador of Brazil called on Belgrade and Priština to overcome their differences and renew talks on outstanding issues as soon as possible.

According to this diplomat, Resolution 1244 remains the framework that determines the conditions of negotiations aimed at reaching a legitimate solution."

That's Brazil on board. Nice one.

Circle the wagons.

Luigi!

It was "illogical" when the US and the EU intervened with the 1999 bombing campaign of Serbia. Serbia was doing fine taking care of criminals all by itself.

Today there is even more criminal activity.

I believe that most of todays Kosovo Albanians came to Kosovo post 1999 bombing from the Italy's base in Aviano.

Kosovo Albanians are a minority in the country of Serbia as a whole.

Today there is only one solution, and that is for all of the EU and US to leave Kosovo, so that Serbia can get back to business.

Let's have the UNGA as soon as possible so that the final and oblitareting blow towards Serbia once and forever can be set. In fact, it is time to start the Albanian oluja and bring peace.
(JohnC., 4 August 2010 12:03)

So Gjon, you want Serbia 'obliterated'. I think you will be waiting a long time Gjon before Serbia is 'obliterated'. The Turks, Austro-Hungarians and Nazis could never 'obliterate' Serbia, so what makes you think the US and you lot can.

With all this talk of 'obliterating' Serbia coming from you lot, I think you can forgive Mr Tadic and Jeremic for being a tad bit cautionary dont you think?

But for Russia this will not be the first and neither the last time...

kick them out of UN SC- having a nuclear power is not sufficient in moderna days for having veto power: you need something more- democracy is the key word- something that you wil never understand.
(ben, 4 August 2010 11:35)

If there is an award for 'Dumbest Post of the Month', I think this would shade it ahead of any of the rants that PRN manages to conjure up from time to time.

Yeah that's right Ben, kick the Russians out because they dont agree with the intolerant, hypernationalist expansionist Albanian agenda in the Balkans. While we are at it, give the Chinese the boot as well, and oh yes what about those pesky Brazilians, Lebanese, uppity Nigerians and Mexicans? Grrr, throw that lot out too.

Yeah, turn the whole lot into a meaningless Anglo-American talk shop and have the whole thing rubberstamp America's latest colonialst adventures.

The UN is bad enough as it is without anyone else making it worse.

Ben don't you feel that the US and Britain are acting arrogant also? They have many times ignored the UNSC, and done as they please. Do you just dislike Russia because it does not recognize an independent Albanian Kosovo? Nice to see your concern for the Georgians, though.

Ben - "In relation to Kosova: Russia is in clear violation of the international law." How? Instead of reading Albanian propaganda, do yourself a favour and find the ICJ ruling (in English) and you'll clearly see that the ICJ ruled ONLY on the declaration BUT reaffirmed it's stance on territorial integrity between states - OUCH and goodbye. You're argument was shot out of the water and into space. you're not independent and never will be no matter what the US or EU say. And by the way, the EU + US aren't the UN, even though you seem to believe they are.

JohnC - "In fact, it is time to start the Albanian oluja" So now that you've lost all hope of Greater Albania that's the best you can come up with. Delusional and desperate. CHECKMATE.

P.S If you want to travel freely in the rest of the world you can now pick up your new Serbian biometric passport - recognised by all free countries in the world.

Niall,

You're on fire today, my friend!

I'd hate to be on the receiving end of one of yours and Kate's and Jason's well written, articulate responses. . .must be a rather humbling/humiliating experience. . .

Thanks for supporting my peeps as we try to reclaim what was stolen.

What I like in Russians is that they don't even bother to show the wrold how arrogant and hypocrite they are. Simply don't care at all.

They support Serbia but do exact the contrary and more to Georgia.

And these kind of countries should have VETO power in UN SC????

UN needs to be reformed or it is better that stops existing. Arrogant countris as Russia are undermining the UN credibility in an unprecedent manear.

In relation to Kosova: Russia is in clear violation of the international law. Kosova's independence is legitimate. Each state that does not respect the rule of the ICJ is in clear violation of the international law.

But for Russia this will not be the first and neither the last time...

kick them out of UN SC- having a nuclear power is not sufficient in moderna days for having veto power: you need something more- democracy is the key word- something that you wil never understand.

It seems fairly clear to me that practically all SC members are calling for renewed negotiations except the arrogant US and UK. I think we all know who is holding up progress only because it suits them and their selfish reputation. We can either remain in this frozen conflict or we can make progress through further negotiations.

Who wants to remain in the US/UK/German created prison and who wants freedom? This would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

Zoran, so true. It is the US and UK which are holding up any chance of proper talks. If they got on board then some sort of mutual solution could be sorted for all and everyone could move forward.

Speaking as a UK person I am embarrassed that at the UNSC meeting yesterday the UK actually pointed to the ICJ decision as legal independence. It took the Russians to remind them that the finding was for the declaration and not the legality of secession.

They also undermined the right of Serbia to diplomatically defend her own territory, and tried to add leverage by speaking about EU membership (yawn, yawn).

Why does the UK so blindly follow US policy, not just to the letter but taking it even further (and often un/intentionally creating further problems in the process).

It really is a terrible thing to see your own country demeaning itself and stamping on our allies through two world wars.

The Turks, Austro-Hungarians and Nazis could never 'obliterate' Serbia, so what makes you think the US and you lot can.
(Niall O'Doherty, 4 August 2010 13:29)
--
Have you noticed that the NAZI, Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian Empires don't exist anymore? Serbia has a good reputation for destroying empires. I suppose that's why we're not liked so much in some spheres.

Anyway, who's next? I suspect the next empire will die without a war. Lets try to achieve it in a dipomatic way this time. ROFL!!

what was not proper about previous talks, pz, was that they were entered with pre-determined results. The talks were for show, as the US/EU agenda, written oh so masterfully by Ahtissarri, was to be pushed through. That is why the talks were phoney. The talks have to be between Belgrade and Pristina, and not between Belgrade, and Pristina, and London, and Washington, and Berlin, and etc.

"The permanent representative of the United States of America said that the opinion of the ICJ is a 'basis for the future relations of Serbia and Kosovo, and that Kosovo is an independent and multiethnic democracy, whose independence is irreversible,' while Washington 'expects the ICJ's opinion to encourage the countries that have yet to recognize Kosovo.'"

-- Calling Kosovo a "multiethnic democracy" does not make it a "multiethnic democracy". My country's statements on its Balkan dependency have always involved a stretch of the imagination, but when compared with statements from other countries that have recognized but are still calling for the establishment of substantial negotiations, we look like a bunch of international neophytes.

Today there is only one solution, and that is for all of the EU and US to leave Kosovo, so that Serbia can get back to business.
(Another Canadian Serb, 4 August 2010 12:19)

... and Luigi back to Tirana i might add! ;)
(pyrros, 4 August 2010 13:31)

And Pyrros back to Greece.
A.D

@Bekim
We are a democratic country with democratic media allowing the citizens of Serbia to comment political and other issues,which is supported by your posting to this site. I wish the Serbian region Kosovo, temporarily protected by UN, could allow the citizens from proper Serbia to participate in comments on tv Priština sites in English , so we could express our views regarding Kosovo problems.I do not know Albanian language.

Let's have the UNGA as soon as possible so that the final and oblitareting blow towards Serbia once and forever can be set. Apparantly, some don't understand the language of "defeat", or try to make it a victory (welcome to Serbia). It is time to stop this madness. UK made it today so clear that any further attempt to distablize the situation by Serbia will not be tolerated. In fact, it is time to start the Albanian oluja and bring peace. It worked 15 years ago, it will work again. Just do it...

Why does the UK so blindly follow US policy, not just to the letter but taking it even further (and often un/intentionally creating further problems in the process).
(kate, 4 August 2010 14:57)
--
Well, it isn't really that difficult. Who should the UK support? They probably see it as either the US or Russia. However, they would rather keep 2 million people hostage in a frozen conflict than to admit they were wrong. It doesn't go down well with ones reputation.

so it seems the anglamericans are left to help themselves.
Nobody seems to share their views.

Today there is only one solution, and that is for all of the EU and US to leave Kosovo, so that Serbia can get back to business.
(Another Canadian Serb, 4 August 2010 12:19)
And I think the whole world understands what business you are advocating, which is why you will never see the US or EU abandon Kosovo.

Luigi!

Today there is only one solution, and that is for all of the EU and US to leave Kosovo, so that Serbia can get back to business.
(Another Canadian Serb, 4 August 2010 12:19)

... and Luigi back to Tirana i might add! ;)

JohnC,
the madness in all of this is that Serbia should never have left Kosovo back in 1999.

Clearly, there is total disregard for 1244.

As a response to what the Serbian foreign Minister said, the British diplomat stressed that "there can be no return to negotiations on either Kosovo's status or its existing borders".

"Any attempt to go down this path would lock Serbia into confrontation with those that have recognized Kosovo. Any attempt to encourage the partition of Kosovo, or status talks, would be against the long-term interests of the citizens of both Kosovo and Serbia. This could cause greater instability in the region. The United Kingdom will strongly resist any such attempts," Parham said.

Do you want me to draw it for you Serbs the meaning of the words. In any case I wonder can Britain and USA block anything for Serbia, hardly!

Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin: "You understand, of course, the correlation of forces in the Security Council on this issue. So I would not hold one's breath in expectation that 1244 is going to be changed or modified or repealed. Clearly it is very much on the books."
http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/europe/UN-Urges-Kosovo-Serbia-to-Resolve-Outstanding-Issues-99900694.html

JohnC,
Yes, Great Brittan did make things very clear and then Russia slapped them silly! If GB wants to make war over this, go for it. Russia would destroy them in a minute. The only reason England didn't lose completely to Germany was that Germany lacked bombers capable of going deep into England, Ireland, and Scotland. Times have changed and GB better keep their mouths shut. The last war they were really in was against Argentina in the Malvinas Island and they almost lost against a force using WWII grade weapons.

Kate, Zoran, can you please be so kind and give us some more information regarding these “proper talks” as you say. As far as I remember there were talks for quite many years (before Kosovo declared independence) and can you tell us what was not proper with them?
(pz, 4 August 2010 16:05)

WQhat was wrong witht ehm is that they weren't proper talks. Ahtisaari knew exactly what he was sent to do and just let them drag on for years, knowing Pristina would reject everything Belgrade offered, so he could impose his solution and make it look fair.

What I don't get is the idea that status talks should stop where technical talks begin. Belgrade watns one, Pristina wants the other, so why not have both? In any case the North won't magically fall under Pristina's control, so if Kosovo wants to join the UN it has to be willing to compromise.

"The permanent representative of the United States of America said that the opinion of the ICJ is a 'basis for the future relations of Serbia and Kosovo, and that Kosovo is an independent and multiethnic democracy, whose independence is irreversible,' while Washington 'expects the ICJ's opinion to encourage the countries that have yet to recognize Kosovo.'"

-- Kosovo is as much a "multiethnic democracy" as it is Independent. So when everyone here claims Kosovo is "Independent" and its "irreverable"... says who? Well... its aparantly from the same country which calls Kosovo "multiethnic". Correct me if i'm wrong but isn't Kosovo and Albania the MOST mono ethnic regions of Europe???

Kate, Zoran, can you please be so kind and give us some more information regarding these “proper talks” as you say. As far as I remember there were talks for quite many years (before Kosovo declared independence) and can you tell us what was not proper with them?

"However, ask Albanians in East Kosova how democratic Serbia is." (Bekim)

-- You mean the District of Gniljane? Or are you more specific with Kosovska Kamenica?

-- Kosovo is as much a "multiethnic democracy" as it is Independent. So when everyone here claims Kosovo is "Independent" and its "irreverable"... says who? Well... its aparantly from the same country which calls Kosovo "multiethnic". Correct me if i'm wrong but isn't Kosovo and Albania the MOST mono ethnic regions of Europe???
(Petar_AU, 4 August 2010 22:06)

And quite how it can be a multi ethnic democracy when only one ethnicity participates in its democracy I don't know.

PSS: "UK does not follow US policy but we have similar views and standards."

Nonsense, they blindly follow the US and every British person knows it. Most hate it.


PSS: "Today a US or UK citizen can choose to live almost anywhere in the world, should your convictions so guide you could choose to live in a country of your liking, however should that be one that supports Serbia over Kosovo you will probably have to accept a drop in standards of living."

As opposed to the dire straits many in the US find themselves in? Or the UK itself where the recession is really biting?

Or all of those tiny places with 3 inhabitants that were bribed or bullied into recognising? You can't hold high moral ground on quicksand.

B92 what is offesnive in my comment that is not published??? it's just an answer wo Niall et al.

You have to be little bit “blind” not to see the HUGE difference between Russian actions in Georgia and Kosova.

After the Russian invasion on Georgia, Russia is simply not even TRYING to:
1. get the International community legitimating her actions (new resolution)
2. get the recognition from the international community for SO and Abkhasian independence (only 3 countries have recognised them)
3. it keeps SO and Abkhazian questions simply out of the international political debate
4. keeps SO and Abkhazia out from the international legal frame – (they don’t have a clear rule of ICJ that their so called independence is in line with the international law). I doubt that SO and Abkhasia would win anything in ICJ- but the Russian arrogance does not even care of bringing SO and Abkhasia in front of ICJ. If someone else tries to do that (read Georgia) Russia will simply obliterate them- which is not what the “evil” US/EU did/doing to Serbia- we can agree in this at least??

Now Kosova and US/UK have:

1. negotiated WITHIN the UN framework (read also Russian active involvement) the final status of Kosova for over 2 years
2. have worked and are still working to get the legitimation from the international community for the state of Kosova (until now 69 recognitions + world bank + IMF)
3. Kosova is not hidden form the world attention- as a matter a fact Kosova just won also the LEGAL legitimacy for her existence in the ICJ process.
4. Kosova and US/UK are actively working to broaden the international legitimacy with final destination UN seat for Kosova.
5. Kosova and US/EU are actively asking form the bull with the permanent seat in UNSC to respect the ICJ rule for which they themselves fought for having it for more than 2 years and bring a new resolution that will reflect the reality

Well Ben, thank the countries that recognised Kosovo for giving Russia half an excuse for its actions in South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

We now know that these regions declarations of independence were not illegal, same as Kosovo's.

So let's not get rid of Russia from the Security Council. With the American hyprocrites on one side and the Russian hypocrites on the other, it balances out.

Speaking as a UK person I am embarrassed that at the UNSC meeting yesterday the UK actually pointed to the ICJ decision as legal independence. It took the Russians to remind them that the finding was for the declaration and not the legality of secession.

They also undermined the right of Serbia to diplomatically defend her own territory, and tried to add leverage by speaking about EU membership (yawn, yawn).

Why does the UK so blindly follow US policy, not just to the letter but taking it even further (and often un/intentionally creating further problems in the process).

It really is a terrible thing to see your own country demeaning itself and stamping on our allies through two world wars.
(kate, 4 August 2010 14:57)
It is not the US or the UK blocking talks, they have advocated talks as has the Kosovo govt, the difference is that they are calling for talks on all problems outside of status. As you will note while all countries called for talks between the 2 parties very few mentioned status.
UK does not follow US policy but we have similar views and standards.
It is ironic though that today they are very strong allies and 235 years ago they were in a similar but not identical situation as Kosovo-Serbia, so there is hope.
Today a US or UK citizen can choose to live almost anywhere in the world, should your convictions so guide you could choose to live in a country of your liking, however should that be one that supports Serbia over Kosovo you will probably have to accept a drop in standards of living.

As opposed to the dire straits many in the US find themselves in? Or the UK itself where the recession is really biting?

Or all of those tiny places with 3 inhabitants that were bribed or bullied into recognising? You can't hold high moral ground on quicksand.
(kate, 4 August 2010 18:51)
dire straits?
People in the US has a cushiony ride for many many years and did not plan for hard times. But even the hard times people in the US are having is nothing next to the day to day. I would suppose the same is true for the UK.
After seeing the suffering that the people of Kosovo had to endure through the 90's I say we are pretty damn lucky.
But I do agree with the moral highground standing on quicksand. Take a bit of advice, I have heard that moving around makes you sink quicker.

@Bekim
We are a democratic country with democratic media allowing the citizens of Serbia to comment political and other issues,which is supported by your posting to this site. I wish the Serbian region Kosovo, temporarily protected by UN, could allow the citizens from proper Serbia to participate in comments on tv Priština sites in English , so we could express our views regarding Kosovo problems.I do not know Albanian language.
(Velja, 4 August 2010 17:23)

Tell that to the reporter beaten with metal bars.However, ask Albanians in East Kosova how democratic Serbia is.

"it is time to start the Albanian oluja and bring peace. It worked 15 years ago, it will work again. Just do it..." (JohnC)

-- Ethnic cleansing is so 1990s. You're supposed to be convincing the civilized world you're a part of it, remember?

"So how does this work Mike: first you convince the civilized world you're a part of it and then proceed with the Albanian oluja?" (Zoti)

-- Who knows? Ask JohnC who seems to have this all figured out.

@ben,

"3. Kosova is not hidden form the world attention- as a matter a fact Kosova just won also the LEGAL legitimacy for her existence in the ICJ process."
====================
I can't believe that after so many times this has been explained someone still thinks that ICJ has said that "Kosova" is an idependent country according to the law.

All you got was the right to say it, not actually do it.
There is a huge difference there.

Tell that to the reporter beaten with metal bars.However, ask Albanians in East Kosova how democratic Serbia is.
(Bekim, 4 August 2010 21:13)
===================

The actions of some who break the law does not in any way suggest that the countyr is lawless.
The law will deal with the guilty in an appropriate manor but when will the law catch up with all the guilty of murdering and beating up Serbs in "Kosova"? Not one person has been detained over any of these crimes.
They are not even looking for them.Now that's what you would call a lawless society.

Now the UK has the same level of debt as Spain, but its funny how that is rarely mentioned in the “free press”, isn’t it? The US; well I could write a book on this subject but in summary it has between 27 and 29% unemployment; a PUBLIC debt of 22 Trillion; its economy continues to fail and privately even some of the staunchest US supporters are saying its in a Depression. It has an unfunded future PUBLIC liability of 100 Trillion for medicare and social security. Oh, prior to the GFC the US economy was 14 Trillion; not any more – its was at beginning 9 trillion, but will sink to 7 by the end of this year and no sunshine in sight.
(sj, 6 August 2010 01:00)

You are really special on your view of US Economy.

Please 29% unemployment never reality or a chance. Since US is such a bad country Why Russian and Serbian, Indian, ... Citizens still Immigrate there and never want to Return to Serbia.

USA has had its difficulties but by far is still strongest Economy and huge world contributer. If US stops its AID to the world Many would die, true War in IRaq not so good but when it comes to China, Russia stil They dont come close and look Russia is not even in same conversation trust me.

Look at your Serbia please and see how poor you are have u seen the state you are in. your Public Debt is 30Bill something that Bill Gates could wipe in 30in and still be worth 25Bill more.

When you speak about USA and dislike: But you are wearing Jeans now or when u go out, write on a PC created in USA or Apple as well if u go running u use you Ipod to help you relax.

Cheers from Broke USA where we drive Big cars and have Huge houses .

"it is time to start the Albanian oluja and bring peace. It worked 15 years ago, it will work again. Just do it..." (JohnC)

-- Ethnic cleansing is so 1990s. You're supposed to be convincing the civilized world you're a part of it, remember?
(Mike, 4 August 2010)

So how does this work Mike: first you convince the civilized world you're a part of it and then proceed with the Albanian oluja?

The difference between Kosovo and Abkhazia and SO is that America didn't make clear at the time of the campaign in 1999 what the objective of the mission was. They then staged some negotiations and imposed independence 10 years later.

With the precedent of Kosovo, Russia decided why wait. I think without the Kosovo situation, Russia still would have attacked Georgia, but they wouldn't have recognised the republics because it would have been unheard of.

The ICJ decided there was no provision in general international law or 1244 that prohibited Kosovo's declaration of independence. Since there was no resolution on SO and Abkhazia, they can only be judged by general international law, and if Kosovo's declaration was legal, then surely the SO and Abkhazia's declarations would be, especially since they were made before the Russian invasion.

It would be great if it was clarified what international law says about secession and precisely which countries can secede, but this will never happen because its not in the interests of any Security Council members for it to happen.

@Daniel
How do you come up with the statement about England almost losing the Fakland war when their losess were over 3 times less than of Argentina?!

the british should worry about getting better dental plans first

secondly worry about the fact that 1 in 4 residents of london cant afford enough food to eat each day..similar to many african cities

then thirdly discuss south serbia

BTW: kosovo is 10x more serbian land then are the falklands british but it didnt stop the british from attacking argentina thousands of miles west of UK....i guess its alot easier to speak hypotheticaly then looking in the mirror

-- Who knows? Ask JohnC who seems to have this all figured out.
(Mike, 5 August 2010)

I guess it was the "convincing" part of your plan that kinda threw me off.

pz
What was not proper with the talks? The talks were limited in time and scope, so the parties were not able to reach an agreement on status. That was a problem. As a result, Ahtissari put together a proposal for supervised independence. But, that proposal was never even put to a vote at the UN Security Council, muchless accepted. So, there was not even agreement on that. The other problem with the talks is they were being held under 1244, which means the scope of the status discussions could not go beyond a discussion on the level of autonomy Pristina would have within Serbia. The US wanted the discussions to go beyond that scope, to discuss secession, which was not contemplated under 1244; thereby giving the Albanians no reason to negotiate autonomy in good faith. As a result - Pristina decided to define status without Belgrade's agreement. Unfortunately for Pristina, they cannot fully get what they want (assuming that is independence) without a green light from Belgrade. With Tadic in power, they might just get it.

Sam
I agree with you. Label the "talks" whatever you want, technical or status. The reality is that you can't tackle certain technical issues without touching on status. For example, the courts in N.Mitrovica. Who's laws (procedural and substantive) will they apply (Serbian/ Pristina's/ Yugoslavia's?). Who will appoint/elect the judges? Who will hear the appeals (will an appeals court in Serbia proper have jurisdiction), etc. Same for administrative border issues, and collection of revenue, telephone country codes, rail, post, electricity, etc. Call them technical issues if you like, but the answers to many of the more important questions really go to status.

Peggy
"All you got was the right to say it, not actually do it.
There is a huge difference there."

I wouldn't even go that far. All the court said was that there was nothing in the international law to prevent Pristina from declaring it. There is a difference in saying something is white (i.e., the declaration is supported by international law), and saying something is not black (i.e., saying that the declaration did not violate international law b/c there is no international law on the issue).

"Recommending" my comment is not the same as "Not Opposing" them.

Cheers from Broke USA where we drive Big cars and have Huge houses .
(John, 6 August 2010 14:05)
=====================
Those would be the ones being repossessed by the banks.
Also, how are those showers set up for the kids at schools going? You know the ones where their parents have become homeless due to the economic collapse and cannot offer them to their kids/

You think we don't get to hear about that?
The reason people are not returning to Serbia or Russia is because they have established their lives in the US or the UK or Australia. They have kids and grand kids they don't want to leave and for some those are the only countries they have known.
There are lots of reasons but the facts are that the US has far too many homeless and getting more.

(pss, 4 August 2010 16:41)

When Gordon Brown became PM he stated that the UK would pull out of Iraq. George Bush visiting the UK soon after told Brown in a closed door conference “the UK pulls out of Iraq the US will pull out its investment out of the UK and the British pound will be on par to the Somali shilling”.

So much for your “UK does not follow US policy but we have similar views and standards”.


“Today a US or UK citizen can choose to live almost anywhere in the world, should your convictions so guide you could choose to live in a country of your liking, however should that be one that supports Serbia over Kosovo you will probably have to accept a drop in standards of living.”

Pity to disappoint you but the only country left in the west that has not been affected by the GFC is Australia while the others are in varying degrees of financial sink holes. Australia has escaped because of CHINA; its economy is part of CHINA.

Now the UK has the same level of debt as Spain, but its funny how that is rarely mentioned in the “free press”, isn’t it? The US; well I could write a book on this subject but in summary it has between 27 and 29% unemployment; a PUBLIC debt of 22 Trillion; its economy continues to fail and privately even some of the staunchest US supporters are saying its in a Depression. It has an unfunded future PUBLIC liability of 100 Trillion for medicare and social security. Oh, prior to the GFC the US economy was 14 Trillion; not any more – its was at beginning 9 trillion, but will sink to 7 by the end of this year and no sunshine in sight.

@pss. I do have a clue and that's your problem.
We do get all sorts of information here in Australia and the showers were talked about.
There was a report on how the US is doing with global recession and they did tell us all about it.
So you have a limited time to find a job over there. What happens when you haven't found a job in that time? You guessed it, out on the street or in with a sympathetic relative.

Now if you doubt the reporters who have put this documentary together and had the guts to put it on our screens here then keep doubting but there was no attempt to try and spare us from the ugly side of American economy.

They even showed what it was like for the kids who had to shower at school. Maybe my English (sorry American) is not good enough but I think our two countries speak the same language.

sj,
The current unemployment rate in the US is 9.5%, The only way you could come up with 29% (other than wild imagination) is if you counted in retirees, and disabled and probably stay at home mom's
(pss, 7 August 2010 09:21)
==============

Actually I never came up with any figure for your unemployment but I can tell you that none of the unemployment official figures are correct, here or there.

You see, if you do even 15 hours of paid work a week you are no longer counted as unemployed. So taking into account all this what figure do you think it really is then?
Don't count the full time employed only. How many are casual because of the recession, how many work only 15 hours? You can't live on what you earn if you are one of those but you are not counted as a statistic.

Don't be so blind.

(Peggy, 7 August 2010 01:14
You really don't have a clue,do you?
A lot of people have had houses foreclosed on, why because theyspent too much time trying to keep up with the Jones's. But that means they had to move into smaller houses or apartments, not the streets.
The US has a great safety net for families. The majority of homeless in the US suffer from mental illness and do not trust the system.
Congress just extended unemployment compensation to 73 weeks, so those who have lost their job can still receive a paycheck for almost a year and half.
Don't know where the shower thing came from but think about it, people who do not have a shower, would probably not be sending their kids to school.
But your comments do help me to understand something, I was in Kosovo for 3 years and traveled the country immensely and could never find the barb wire ghettos you said the Serbs had to live in, now I understand.

sj,
The current unemployment rate in the US is 9.5%, The only way you could come up with 29% (other than wild imagination) is if you counted in retirees, and disabled and probably stay at home mom's

What I like in Russians is that they don't even bother to show the wrold how arrogant and hypocrite they are. Simply don't care at all.

They support Serbia but do exact the contrary and more to Georgia.

And these kind of countries should have VETO power in UN SC????

UN needs to be reformed or it is better that stops existing. Arrogant countris as Russia are undermining the UN credibility in an unprecedent manear.

In relation to Kosova: Russia is in clear violation of the international law. Kosova's independence is legitimate. Each state that does not respect the rule of the ICJ is in clear violation of the international law.

But for Russia this will not be the first and neither the last time...

kick them out of UN SC- having a nuclear power is not sufficient in moderna days for having veto power: you need something more- democracy is the key word- something that you wil never understand.

Luigi!

Today there is only one solution, and that is for all of the EU and US to leave Kosovo, so that Serbia can get back to business.
(Another Canadian Serb, 4 August 2010 12:19)

... and Luigi back to Tirana i might add! ;)

Luigi!

It was "illogical" when the US and the EU intervened with the 1999 bombing campaign of Serbia. Serbia was doing fine taking care of criminals all by itself.

Today there is even more criminal activity.

I believe that most of todays Kosovo Albanians came to Kosovo post 1999 bombing from the Italy's base in Aviano.

Kosovo Albanians are a minority in the country of Serbia as a whole.

Today there is only one solution, and that is for all of the EU and US to leave Kosovo, so that Serbia can get back to business.

Let's have the UNGA as soon as possible so that the final and oblitareting blow towards Serbia once and forever can be set. Apparantly, some don't understand the language of "defeat", or try to make it a victory (welcome to Serbia). It is time to stop this madness. UK made it today so clear that any further attempt to distablize the situation by Serbia will not be tolerated. In fact, it is time to start the Albanian oluja and bring peace. It worked 15 years ago, it will work again. Just do it...

so it seems the anglamericans are left to help themselves.
Nobody seems to share their views.

There is a lot of illogic in all of this..i read in previous article that Jeremic strongly committed Serbia to EU..than he submitted a draft resolution of great importance for his country to USG council..than the document will be voted and approved by Russia while Eu is against (22-27 and all major countries)...Is this normal? Does this game of empty words keep going for long? I still think that for Serbia the future will be of double "Niet".. No kosovo and no EU

Today there is only one solution, and that is for all of the EU and US to leave Kosovo, so that Serbia can get back to business.
(Another Canadian Serb, 4 August 2010 12:19)
And I think the whole world understands what business you are advocating, which is why you will never see the US or EU abandon Kosovo.

@Bekim
We are a democratic country with democratic media allowing the citizens of Serbia to comment political and other issues,which is supported by your posting to this site. I wish the Serbian region Kosovo, temporarily protected by UN, could allow the citizens from proper Serbia to participate in comments on tv Priština sites in English , so we could express our views regarding Kosovo problems.I do not know Albanian language.
(Velja, 4 August 2010 17:23)

Tell that to the reporter beaten with metal bars.However, ask Albanians in East Kosova how democratic Serbia is.

"The permanent representative of the United States of America said that the opinion of the ICJ is a 'basis for the future relations of Serbia and Kosovo, and that Kosovo is an independent and multiethnic democracy, whose independence is irreversible,' while Washington 'expects the ICJ's opinion to encourage the countries that have yet to recognize Kosovo.'"

-- Calling Kosovo a "multiethnic democracy" does not make it a "multiethnic democracy". My country's statements on its Balkan dependency have always involved a stretch of the imagination, but when compared with statements from other countries that have recognized but are still calling for the establishment of substantial negotiations, we look like a bunch of international neophytes.

B92 what is offesnive in my comment that is not published??? it's just an answer wo Niall et al.

You have to be little bit “blind” not to see the HUGE difference between Russian actions in Georgia and Kosova.

After the Russian invasion on Georgia, Russia is simply not even TRYING to:
1. get the International community legitimating her actions (new resolution)
2. get the recognition from the international community for SO and Abkhasian independence (only 3 countries have recognised them)
3. it keeps SO and Abkhazian questions simply out of the international political debate
4. keeps SO and Abkhazia out from the international legal frame – (they don’t have a clear rule of ICJ that their so called independence is in line with the international law). I doubt that SO and Abkhasia would win anything in ICJ- but the Russian arrogance does not even care of bringing SO and Abkhasia in front of ICJ. If someone else tries to do that (read Georgia) Russia will simply obliterate them- which is not what the “evil” US/EU did/doing to Serbia- we can agree in this at least??

Now Kosova and US/UK have:

1. negotiated WITHIN the UN framework (read also Russian active involvement) the final status of Kosova for over 2 years
2. have worked and are still working to get the legitimation from the international community for the state of Kosova (until now 69 recognitions + world bank + IMF)
3. Kosova is not hidden form the world attention- as a matter a fact Kosova just won also the LEGAL legitimacy for her existence in the ICJ process.
4. Kosova and US/UK are actively working to broaden the international legitimacy with final destination UN seat for Kosova.
5. Kosova and US/EU are actively asking form the bull with the permanent seat in UNSC to respect the ICJ rule for which they themselves fought for having it for more than 2 years and bring a new resolution that will reflect the reality

what was not proper about previous talks, pz, was that they were entered with pre-determined results. The talks were for show, as the US/EU agenda, written oh so masterfully by Ahtissarri, was to be pushed through. That is why the talks were phoney. The talks have to be between Belgrade and Pristina, and not between Belgrade, and Pristina, and London, and Washington, and Berlin, and etc.

Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin: "You understand, of course, the correlation of forces in the Security Council on this issue. So I would not hold one's breath in expectation that 1244 is going to be changed or modified or repealed. Clearly it is very much on the books."
http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/europe/UN-Urges-Kosovo-Serbia-to-Resolve-Outstanding-Issues-99900694.html

Kate, Zoran, can you please be so kind and give us some more information regarding these “proper talks” as you say. As far as I remember there were talks for quite many years (before Kosovo declared independence) and can you tell us what was not proper with them?

The Turks, Austro-Hungarians and Nazis could never 'obliterate' Serbia, so what makes you think the US and you lot can.
(Niall O'Doherty, 4 August 2010 13:29)
--
Have you noticed that the NAZI, Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian Empires don't exist anymore? Serbia has a good reputation for destroying empires. I suppose that's why we're not liked so much in some spheres.

Anyway, who's next? I suspect the next empire will die without a war. Lets try to achieve it in a dipomatic way this time. ROFL!!

'Have you noticed that the NAZI, Ottoman and Austro-Hungarian Empires don't exist anymore? Serbia has a good reputation for destroying empires. I suppose that's why we're not liked so much in some spheres.

Anyway, who's next? I suspect the next empire will die without a war. Lets try to achieve it in a dipomatic way this time. ROFL!!
(Zoran, 4 August 2010 14:34)

Zorane,
Yes, Serbia is a rock on which empires break. The next one to go down I think will be the EU. Serbia has already managed to split them over Kosovo. And whatever happened to the UN resolution on Kosovo that the EU was supposed to send?? Oh right, they couldn't all agree so it was scrapped :).
Cheers!!

Ben don't you feel that the US and Britain are acting arrogant also? They have many times ignored the UNSC, and done as they please. Do you just dislike Russia because it does not recognize an independent Albanian Kosovo? Nice to see your concern for the Georgians, though.

Speaking as a UK person I am embarrassed that at the UNSC meeting yesterday the UK actually pointed to the ICJ decision as legal independence. It took the Russians to remind them that the finding was for the declaration and not the legality of secession.

They also undermined the right of Serbia to diplomatically defend her own territory, and tried to add leverage by speaking about EU membership (yawn, yawn).

Why does the UK so blindly follow US policy, not just to the letter but taking it even further (and often un/intentionally creating further problems in the process).

It really is a terrible thing to see your own country demeaning itself and stamping on our allies through two world wars.
(kate, 4 August 2010 14:57)
It is not the US or the UK blocking talks, they have advocated talks as has the Kosovo govt, the difference is that they are calling for talks on all problems outside of status. As you will note while all countries called for talks between the 2 parties very few mentioned status.
UK does not follow US policy but we have similar views and standards.
It is ironic though that today they are very strong allies and 235 years ago they were in a similar but not identical situation as Kosovo-Serbia, so there is hope.
Today a US or UK citizen can choose to live almost anywhere in the world, should your convictions so guide you could choose to live in a country of your liking, however should that be one that supports Serbia over Kosovo you will probably have to accept a drop in standards of living.

Why does the UK so blindly follow US policy, not just to the letter but taking it even further (and often un/intentionally creating further problems in the process).
(kate, 4 August 2010 14:57)
--
Well, it isn't really that difficult. Who should the UK support? They probably see it as either the US or Russia. However, they would rather keep 2 million people hostage in a frozen conflict than to admit they were wrong. It doesn't go down well with ones reputation.

Let's have the UNGA as soon as possible so that the final and oblitareting blow towards Serbia once and forever can be set. In fact, it is time to start the Albanian oluja and bring peace.
(JohnC., 4 August 2010 12:03)

So Gjon, you want Serbia 'obliterated'. I think you will be waiting a long time Gjon before Serbia is 'obliterated'. The Turks, Austro-Hungarians and Nazis could never 'obliterate' Serbia, so what makes you think the US and you lot can.

With all this talk of 'obliterating' Serbia coming from you lot, I think you can forgive Mr Tadic and Jeremic for being a tad bit cautionary dont you think?

JohnC,
the madness in all of this is that Serbia should never have left Kosovo back in 1999.

Clearly, there is total disregard for 1244.

Niall,

You're on fire today, my friend!

I'd hate to be on the receiving end of one of yours and Kate's and Jason's well written, articulate responses. . .must be a rather humbling/humiliating experience. . .

Thanks for supporting my peeps as we try to reclaim what was stolen.

'Churking was quoted as saying that the British envoy's words "could almost be seen as a threat", Radio Voice of Russia reported.'

I always liked Churkin, he has been a strong supporter of Serbia always, and as you can see is calling it like he sees it. What is it with the Brits these days? They still seem to think they are an empire the way they behave. Reality will set in, and they will soon realize that they are bankrupt, they have an economy where they manufacture almost nothing and just move money around from place to place, and they have become German lap dogs when it comes to the Kosovo issue.
Is anybody over there actually in tune with what is going on in Kosovo, the inhuman conditions that non-albanians have to live in? Do they have no shame?

Zoran, so true. It is the US and UK which are holding up any chance of proper talks. If they got on board then some sort of mutual solution could be sorted for all and everyone could move forward.

Speaking as a UK person I am embarrassed that at the UNSC meeting yesterday the UK actually pointed to the ICJ decision as legal independence. It took the Russians to remind them that the finding was for the declaration and not the legality of secession.

They also undermined the right of Serbia to diplomatically defend her own territory, and tried to add leverage by speaking about EU membership (yawn, yawn).

Why does the UK so blindly follow US policy, not just to the letter but taking it even further (and often un/intentionally creating further problems in the process).

It really is a terrible thing to see your own country demeaning itself and stamping on our allies through two world wars.

@Bekim
We are a democratic country with democratic media allowing the citizens of Serbia to comment political and other issues,which is supported by your posting to this site. I wish the Serbian region Kosovo, temporarily protected by UN, could allow the citizens from proper Serbia to participate in comments on tv Priština sites in English , so we could express our views regarding Kosovo problems.I do not know Albanian language.

Today there is only one solution, and that is for all of the EU and US to leave Kosovo, so that Serbia can get back to business.
(Another Canadian Serb, 4 August 2010 12:19)

... and Luigi back to Tirana i might add! ;)
(pyrros, 4 August 2010 13:31)

And Pyrros back to Greece.
A.D

"The ambassador of Brazil called on Belgrade and Priština to overcome their differences and renew talks on outstanding issues as soon as possible.

According to this diplomat, Resolution 1244 remains the framework that determines the conditions of negotiations aimed at reaching a legitimate solution."

That's Brazil on board. Nice one.

Circle the wagons.

As a response to what the Serbian foreign Minister said, the British diplomat stressed that "there can be no return to negotiations on either Kosovo's status or its existing borders".

"Any attempt to go down this path would lock Serbia into confrontation with those that have recognized Kosovo. Any attempt to encourage the partition of Kosovo, or status talks, would be against the long-term interests of the citizens of both Kosovo and Serbia. This could cause greater instability in the region. The United Kingdom will strongly resist any such attempts," Parham said.

Do you want me to draw it for you Serbs the meaning of the words. In any case I wonder can Britain and USA block anything for Serbia, hardly!

But for Russia this will not be the first and neither the last time...

kick them out of UN SC- having a nuclear power is not sufficient in moderna days for having veto power: you need something more- democracy is the key word- something that you wil never understand.
(ben, 4 August 2010 11:35)

If there is an award for 'Dumbest Post of the Month', I think this would shade it ahead of any of the rants that PRN manages to conjure up from time to time.

Yeah that's right Ben, kick the Russians out because they dont agree with the intolerant, hypernationalist expansionist Albanian agenda in the Balkans. While we are at it, give the Chinese the boot as well, and oh yes what about those pesky Brazilians, Lebanese, uppity Nigerians and Mexicans? Grrr, throw that lot out too.

Yeah, turn the whole lot into a meaningless Anglo-American talk shop and have the whole thing rubberstamp America's latest colonialst adventures.

The UN is bad enough as it is without anyone else making it worse.

It seems fairly clear to me that practically all SC members are calling for renewed negotiations except the arrogant US and UK. I think we all know who is holding up progress only because it suits them and their selfish reputation. We can either remain in this frozen conflict or we can make progress through further negotiations.

Who wants to remain in the US/UK/German created prison and who wants freedom? This would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

Kate, Zoran, can you please be so kind and give us some more information regarding these “proper talks” as you say. As far as I remember there were talks for quite many years (before Kosovo declared independence) and can you tell us what was not proper with them?
(pz, 4 August 2010 16:05)

WQhat was wrong witht ehm is that they weren't proper talks. Ahtisaari knew exactly what he was sent to do and just let them drag on for years, knowing Pristina would reject everything Belgrade offered, so he could impose his solution and make it look fair.

What I don't get is the idea that status talks should stop where technical talks begin. Belgrade watns one, Pristina wants the other, so why not have both? In any case the North won't magically fall under Pristina's control, so if Kosovo wants to join the UN it has to be willing to compromise.

JohnC,
Yes, Great Brittan did make things very clear and then Russia slapped them silly! If GB wants to make war over this, go for it. Russia would destroy them in a minute. The only reason England didn't lose completely to Germany was that Germany lacked bombers capable of going deep into England, Ireland, and Scotland. Times have changed and GB better keep their mouths shut. The last war they were really in was against Argentina in the Malvinas Island and they almost lost against a force using WWII grade weapons.

As opposed to the dire straits many in the US find themselves in? Or the UK itself where the recession is really biting?

Or all of those tiny places with 3 inhabitants that were bribed or bullied into recognising? You can't hold high moral ground on quicksand.
(kate, 4 August 2010 18:51)
dire straits?
People in the US has a cushiony ride for many many years and did not plan for hard times. But even the hard times people in the US are having is nothing next to the day to day. I would suppose the same is true for the UK.
After seeing the suffering that the people of Kosovo had to endure through the 90's I say we are pretty damn lucky.
But I do agree with the moral highground standing on quicksand. Take a bit of advice, I have heard that moving around makes you sink quicker.

Ben - "In relation to Kosova: Russia is in clear violation of the international law." How? Instead of reading Albanian propaganda, do yourself a favour and find the ICJ ruling (in English) and you'll clearly see that the ICJ ruled ONLY on the declaration BUT reaffirmed it's stance on territorial integrity between states - OUCH and goodbye. You're argument was shot out of the water and into space. you're not independent and never will be no matter what the US or EU say. And by the way, the EU + US aren't the UN, even though you seem to believe they are.

JohnC - "In fact, it is time to start the Albanian oluja" So now that you've lost all hope of Greater Albania that's the best you can come up with. Delusional and desperate. CHECKMATE.

P.S If you want to travel freely in the rest of the world you can now pick up your new Serbian biometric passport - recognised by all free countries in the world.

"The permanent representative of the United States of America said that the opinion of the ICJ is a 'basis for the future relations of Serbia and Kosovo, and that Kosovo is an independent and multiethnic democracy, whose independence is irreversible,' while Washington 'expects the ICJ's opinion to encourage the countries that have yet to recognize Kosovo.'"

-- Kosovo is as much a "multiethnic democracy" as it is Independent. So when everyone here claims Kosovo is "Independent" and its "irreverable"... says who? Well... its aparantly from the same country which calls Kosovo "multiethnic". Correct me if i'm wrong but isn't Kosovo and Albania the MOST mono ethnic regions of Europe???

"However, ask Albanians in East Kosova how democratic Serbia is." (Bekim)

-- You mean the District of Gniljane? Or are you more specific with Kosovska Kamenica?

Well Ben, thank the countries that recognised Kosovo for giving Russia half an excuse for its actions in South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

We now know that these regions declarations of independence were not illegal, same as Kosovo's.

So let's not get rid of Russia from the Security Council. With the American hyprocrites on one side and the Russian hypocrites on the other, it balances out.

"it is time to start the Albanian oluja and bring peace. It worked 15 years ago, it will work again. Just do it..." (JohnC)

-- Ethnic cleansing is so 1990s. You're supposed to be convincing the civilized world you're a part of it, remember?

PSS: "UK does not follow US policy but we have similar views and standards."

Nonsense, they blindly follow the US and every British person knows it. Most hate it.


PSS: "Today a US or UK citizen can choose to live almost anywhere in the world, should your convictions so guide you could choose to live in a country of your liking, however should that be one that supports Serbia over Kosovo you will probably have to accept a drop in standards of living."

As opposed to the dire straits many in the US find themselves in? Or the UK itself where the recession is really biting?

Or all of those tiny places with 3 inhabitants that were bribed or bullied into recognising? You can't hold high moral ground on quicksand.

@ben,

"3. Kosova is not hidden form the world attention- as a matter a fact Kosova just won also the LEGAL legitimacy for her existence in the ICJ process."
====================
I can't believe that after so many times this has been explained someone still thinks that ICJ has said that "Kosova" is an idependent country according to the law.

All you got was the right to say it, not actually do it.
There is a huge difference there.

Tell that to the reporter beaten with metal bars.However, ask Albanians in East Kosova how democratic Serbia is.
(Bekim, 4 August 2010 21:13)
===================

The actions of some who break the law does not in any way suggest that the countyr is lawless.
The law will deal with the guilty in an appropriate manor but when will the law catch up with all the guilty of murdering and beating up Serbs in "Kosova"? Not one person has been detained over any of these crimes.
They are not even looking for them.Now that's what you would call a lawless society.

"it is time to start the Albanian oluja and bring peace. It worked 15 years ago, it will work again. Just do it..." (JohnC)

-- Ethnic cleansing is so 1990s. You're supposed to be convincing the civilized world you're a part of it, remember?
(Mike, 4 August 2010)

So how does this work Mike: first you convince the civilized world you're a part of it and then proceed with the Albanian oluja?

the british should worry about getting better dental plans first

secondly worry about the fact that 1 in 4 residents of london cant afford enough food to eat each day..similar to many african cities

then thirdly discuss south serbia

BTW: kosovo is 10x more serbian land then are the falklands british but it didnt stop the british from attacking argentina thousands of miles west of UK....i guess its alot easier to speak hypotheticaly then looking in the mirror

-- Kosovo is as much a "multiethnic democracy" as it is Independent. So when everyone here claims Kosovo is "Independent" and its "irreverable"... says who? Well... its aparantly from the same country which calls Kosovo "multiethnic". Correct me if i'm wrong but isn't Kosovo and Albania the MOST mono ethnic regions of Europe???
(Petar_AU, 4 August 2010 22:06)

And quite how it can be a multi ethnic democracy when only one ethnicity participates in its democracy I don't know.

The difference between Kosovo and Abkhazia and SO is that America didn't make clear at the time of the campaign in 1999 what the objective of the mission was. They then staged some negotiations and imposed independence 10 years later.

With the precedent of Kosovo, Russia decided why wait. I think without the Kosovo situation, Russia still would have attacked Georgia, but they wouldn't have recognised the republics because it would have been unheard of.

The ICJ decided there was no provision in general international law or 1244 that prohibited Kosovo's declaration of independence. Since there was no resolution on SO and Abkhazia, they can only be judged by general international law, and if Kosovo's declaration was legal, then surely the SO and Abkhazia's declarations would be, especially since they were made before the Russian invasion.

It would be great if it was clarified what international law says about secession and precisely which countries can secede, but this will never happen because its not in the interests of any Security Council members for it to happen.

"So how does this work Mike: first you convince the civilized world you're a part of it and then proceed with the Albanian oluja?" (Zoti)

-- Who knows? Ask JohnC who seems to have this all figured out.

-- Who knows? Ask JohnC who seems to have this all figured out.
(Mike, 5 August 2010)

I guess it was the "convincing" part of your plan that kinda threw me off.

(pss, 4 August 2010 16:41)

When Gordon Brown became PM he stated that the UK would pull out of Iraq. George Bush visiting the UK soon after told Brown in a closed door conference “the UK pulls out of Iraq the US will pull out its investment out of the UK and the British pound will be on par to the Somali shilling”.

So much for your “UK does not follow US policy but we have similar views and standards”.


“Today a US or UK citizen can choose to live almost anywhere in the world, should your convictions so guide you could choose to live in a country of your liking, however should that be one that supports Serbia over Kosovo you will probably have to accept a drop in standards of living.”

Pity to disappoint you but the only country left in the west that has not been affected by the GFC is Australia while the others are in varying degrees of financial sink holes. Australia has escaped because of CHINA; its economy is part of CHINA.

Now the UK has the same level of debt as Spain, but its funny how that is rarely mentioned in the “free press”, isn’t it? The US; well I could write a book on this subject but in summary it has between 27 and 29% unemployment; a PUBLIC debt of 22 Trillion; its economy continues to fail and privately even some of the staunchest US supporters are saying its in a Depression. It has an unfunded future PUBLIC liability of 100 Trillion for medicare and social security. Oh, prior to the GFC the US economy was 14 Trillion; not any more – its was at beginning 9 trillion, but will sink to 7 by the end of this year and no sunshine in sight.

(Peggy, 7 August 2010 01:14
You really don't have a clue,do you?
A lot of people have had houses foreclosed on, why because theyspent too much time trying to keep up with the Jones's. But that means they had to move into smaller houses or apartments, not the streets.
The US has a great safety net for families. The majority of homeless in the US suffer from mental illness and do not trust the system.
Congress just extended unemployment compensation to 73 weeks, so those who have lost their job can still receive a paycheck for almost a year and half.
Don't know where the shower thing came from but think about it, people who do not have a shower, would probably not be sending their kids to school.
But your comments do help me to understand something, I was in Kosovo for 3 years and traveled the country immensely and could never find the barb wire ghettos you said the Serbs had to live in, now I understand.

sj,
The current unemployment rate in the US is 9.5%, The only way you could come up with 29% (other than wild imagination) is if you counted in retirees, and disabled and probably stay at home mom's

@Daniel
How do you come up with the statement about England almost losing the Fakland war when their losess were over 3 times less than of Argentina?!

pz
What was not proper with the talks? The talks were limited in time and scope, so the parties were not able to reach an agreement on status. That was a problem. As a result, Ahtissari put together a proposal for supervised independence. But, that proposal was never even put to a vote at the UN Security Council, muchless accepted. So, there was not even agreement on that. The other problem with the talks is they were being held under 1244, which means the scope of the status discussions could not go beyond a discussion on the level of autonomy Pristina would have within Serbia. The US wanted the discussions to go beyond that scope, to discuss secession, which was not contemplated under 1244; thereby giving the Albanians no reason to negotiate autonomy in good faith. As a result - Pristina decided to define status without Belgrade's agreement. Unfortunately for Pristina, they cannot fully get what they want (assuming that is independence) without a green light from Belgrade. With Tadic in power, they might just get it.

Sam
I agree with you. Label the "talks" whatever you want, technical or status. The reality is that you can't tackle certain technical issues without touching on status. For example, the courts in N.Mitrovica. Who's laws (procedural and substantive) will they apply (Serbian/ Pristina's/ Yugoslavia's?). Who will appoint/elect the judges? Who will hear the appeals (will an appeals court in Serbia proper have jurisdiction), etc. Same for administrative border issues, and collection of revenue, telephone country codes, rail, post, electricity, etc. Call them technical issues if you like, but the answers to many of the more important questions really go to status.

Peggy
"All you got was the right to say it, not actually do it.
There is a huge difference there."

I wouldn't even go that far. All the court said was that there was nothing in the international law to prevent Pristina from declaring it. There is a difference in saying something is white (i.e., the declaration is supported by international law), and saying something is not black (i.e., saying that the declaration did not violate international law b/c there is no international law on the issue).

"Recommending" my comment is not the same as "Not Opposing" them.

Now the UK has the same level of debt as Spain, but its funny how that is rarely mentioned in the “free press”, isn’t it? The US; well I could write a book on this subject but in summary it has between 27 and 29% unemployment; a PUBLIC debt of 22 Trillion; its economy continues to fail and privately even some of the staunchest US supporters are saying its in a Depression. It has an unfunded future PUBLIC liability of 100 Trillion for medicare and social security. Oh, prior to the GFC the US economy was 14 Trillion; not any more – its was at beginning 9 trillion, but will sink to 7 by the end of this year and no sunshine in sight.
(sj, 6 August 2010 01:00)

You are really special on your view of US Economy.

Please 29% unemployment never reality or a chance. Since US is such a bad country Why Russian and Serbian, Indian, ... Citizens still Immigrate there and never want to Return to Serbia.

USA has had its difficulties but by far is still strongest Economy and huge world contributer. If US stops its AID to the world Many would die, true War in IRaq not so good but when it comes to China, Russia stil They dont come close and look Russia is not even in same conversation trust me.

Look at your Serbia please and see how poor you are have u seen the state you are in. your Public Debt is 30Bill something that Bill Gates could wipe in 30in and still be worth 25Bill more.

When you speak about USA and dislike: But you are wearing Jeans now or when u go out, write on a PC created in USA or Apple as well if u go running u use you Ipod to help you relax.

Cheers from Broke USA where we drive Big cars and have Huge houses .

Cheers from Broke USA where we drive Big cars and have Huge houses .
(John, 6 August 2010 14:05)
=====================
Those would be the ones being repossessed by the banks.
Also, how are those showers set up for the kids at schools going? You know the ones where their parents have become homeless due to the economic collapse and cannot offer them to their kids/

You think we don't get to hear about that?
The reason people are not returning to Serbia or Russia is because they have established their lives in the US or the UK or Australia. They have kids and grand kids they don't want to leave and for some those are the only countries they have known.
There are lots of reasons but the facts are that the US has far too many homeless and getting more.

@pss. I do have a clue and that's your problem.
We do get all sorts of information here in Australia and the showers were talked about.
There was a report on how the US is doing with global recession and they did tell us all about it.
So you have a limited time to find a job over there. What happens when you haven't found a job in that time? You guessed it, out on the street or in with a sympathetic relative.

Now if you doubt the reporters who have put this documentary together and had the guts to put it on our screens here then keep doubting but there was no attempt to try and spare us from the ugly side of American economy.

They even showed what it was like for the kids who had to shower at school. Maybe my English (sorry American) is not good enough but I think our two countries speak the same language.

sj,
The current unemployment rate in the US is 9.5%, The only way you could come up with 29% (other than wild imagination) is if you counted in retirees, and disabled and probably stay at home mom's
(pss, 7 August 2010 09:21)
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Actually I never came up with any figure for your unemployment but I can tell you that none of the unemployment official figures are correct, here or there.

You see, if you do even 15 hours of paid work a week you are no longer counted as unemployed. So taking into account all this what figure do you think it really is then?
Don't count the full time employed only. How many are casual because of the recession, how many work only 15 hours? You can't live on what you earn if you are one of those but you are not counted as a statistic.

Don't be so blind.