"K. Albanians to offer autonomy to north"

Compromise and negotiations are gathering steam - slowly but surely. It is now obvious Pristina's plan to integrate the North has been dropped and the ICJ decision has changed nothing. This just demonstrates how weak the independence effort really is. It is irreversibly blocked and that is the reality Pristina and the West need to accept.

So my questions. PRN, what happened to the mass recognitions we were expecting on Monday? Amer, how did those negotiations go between the German foreign minister and Cyprus? It's all a bit amusing really - seeing so many people constantly hitting their heads against a brick wall. The brick wall is real my friends whereas the hologram projected into your heads is a fantasy.

More than autonomy, less than independence is self-fulfilling. Who is ready for real negotiations? Who is ready for true peace and reconciliation?

hahahahhahahahah this is the best thing ever. oh my what a great day. autonomy....no I think they would prefer independence =)

Maximum autonomy but short for independence for Kosovo Province. Take it or leave Pristina. If you really interested for peace and stability in the Balkans. Go back to the negotiation table with Belgrade. ICJ decision did not solve anything. But Serbia will never give up Kosovo.

This is so rich... annex territory, proclaim independence, get some countries with various interests and agendas to recognise you, terrorise various elements of the population into living ghettoised existences, and try and destroy important heritage.

Then offer the nation within whose legal boundaries you have carried out the above travesties 'autonomy'. Unbelievable! I don't blame the Kosovo Albanians for this mess - it has all been allowed and guided by outside parties.

If there is a partition, Northern Kosovo will remain as part of Serbia, the Serbian enclaves will have some sort of special status, and the remainder of Kosovo needs to discuss status with Serbia and their international guardians to find a solution that everyone can live with.

There should be no partition of Serbia at all in a fair world - but ultimately a peaceful solution has to be found.

Sounds very familiar this situation. So let's assume that the Serbs continue to ignore Thaci and the Albanians try to implement independence. The Serbs in the north can use the "Kosovo precedent" to claim independence from kosovo as we now know it's legal to do so under international law and that the ICJ don't consider Kosovo to be a state (read the rulings very carefully), and as such "northern Kosovo" wouldn't be considered a state either.

So what would change? nothing. What has changed since the ICJ? nothing.

What everyone wants and needs is for the ICJ to give an answer to two questions. Is there a right to self determination and is there a right for a minority to secede. If the ICJ could be bothered to get off it's backside and give an answer to these questions the situation in Kosovo would be simplified overnight. EVERYONE would know the path forward. Declaring is one thing. your borders being recognised by International Law is another. We need an answer to those two questions and this is what Serbia should be asking for, not some stupid question about declarations.

xaxaxax,very funny.Tell to mr Thaci to go to the center of N.Mitrovica if he is not afraid and state this!!!!

As long as we have the western puppet regime working against Serbias interest, nothing will happen or in the worst case, Kosovo will indeed be lost because of Tadic perfect alibi to get rid of our souther province within the ICJ decision. So the Serbs must fight the KLA drug lords in Pristina, Camp Bondsteel-USA and their own bought politicos as well as the "opposition".

As for Atamans obsession with anything but the subject matter and israeli tanks, I would much rather go for our trusted Russian ones, remember NATO frustration after almost all returned to Serbia proper intact during the war (whish they took out on civilians and infrastructure).

So is autonomy offered or not?

Yesterday we first read that Hash is offering the same "more than autonomy less than independence" schtick to Mitrovica.

Then Dell denies such a thing was offered.

Now it's being published again?

Offering autonomy to a part of Kosovo Pristina has no authority over notwithstanding, if Pristina wants to look serious, offer the same conditions to at least Gracanica/Novo Brdo and Strpce. If such an offer for autonomy for the north is indeed on the table, Thaci should know these other two municipalities will want the same thing.

If they're really feeling European and are willing to compromise for the sake of multiethnic stability and territorial integrity, extend it also to Velika Hoca and Gorazdevac.

Throw in Dragas as well for the Gorani.

All within Kosovo's "borders".

hi Zoran...
Why didn't you offer to the Albanians the same thing you wish them to offer to the Serbs, or what they are actually offering them?
The way i see it, less than 5% of the population(serbians) has 10% of the seats in the Parliament. Why have you never offered the same to the Albanians when you had the chance; before the bombings; or a peace offer; not subdue and humiliate them in all kinds of manners...
If you really consider Kosova yours, and you really REALLY care about it; you know what you should offer to them...
Kosova now has more than 2 million inhabitants and Albanians in Serbia (if you suffer so much to include Kosova) would make up at least 25% of the entire population. Would you be willing to offer them an Ahtisaari plan? Would you be willing and happy to offer them 50% of the seats in your parliament? (5% of the population=10% of seats; 25% of the population = 50% of the seats.) in change of that territorial integrity that you are propagating so much?
If you are not able to offer them anything whatsoever, if you are unable to even offer them a simple heart-felt apology... what do you really expect to happen? Do you really think the world and much less, Albanians would buy it?

No country which had them in abundance was subject to humanitarian bombing.
(Ataman, 28 July 2010 11:24)
--
True, we don't have an abundance of that but we have an unbreakable will. :)

Look, little Serbia has taken on NATO. We've been bombed, we are at odds with the US, UK and Germany but we are still standing strong.

When it comes to negotiations, the end result simply must reflect reality. Why would one side give the other something it cannot achieve? Independence is irreversibly blocked. The North is firmly under Serbian control. Serbia has no control over Albanian areas. The Serbian enclaves are loyal to Serbia and want nothing to do with Pristina.

So lets negotiate. Albanians control their own people and areas while the rest is Serbia's. Some elements of independence can be offered but no UN seat. What is important? Freedom of movement (people and goods). Utilities (electricity, water, phone, etc...), courts and police, protection of religious and historical churches/monuments, etc....

The end result being a functional partition with two systems. One for Albanians and one for Serbians and others.

Gorani says that the border agreements were made on an "international level", then why would Belgrade talk at all with Pristina? The "internationals" divided Serbia apart, and are trying to redraw it's borders. Our fight is with the US/EU and not the Albanians, they are the West's tool, nothing more. Besides, what Serb politician would sit down with a KLA leader, Thaci, that was terrorizing and murdering Serbs on their own land ten years ago, and now talk good neighborly relations? This wanted criminal must go first, before a word is spoken between Serbs and K Albos. Is the West mad? Did they think that Serbia would just overlook this fact?

But I think I must expect brickbats from both sides after this post!
(lowe, 28 July 2010 15:31)
--
There are more Serbians south of the Ibar than the north. A partition will not work.

xaxaxax,very funny.Tell to mr Thaci to go to the center of N.Mitrovica if he is not afraid and state this!!!!
(Sikat, 28 July 2010 12:02)

I said the same thing about Tadic and co. , but none of them ever made it to Prishtina.

What happened to the 30 immediate recognitions? No bribe money left? I thought they "won" the ICJ case. Sounds like partition time. The us has run out of money for the k-albos.

Who is ready for real negotiations? Who is ready for true peace and reconciliation?
(Zoran, 28 July 2010 10:15)

Negotiations and the prospect of true peace are a nice thing. But as Comrade Ronald Reagan told to Mr. Gorbachyov:

"Доверяй - но проверяй". I.e. you should trust and be open towards the negotiation partner - but carry a big stick.

In that spirit, the best thing backing these negotiations should be the fullest possible (as far as 1244 allows) contingent of VS on the territory of KosMet, working closely with the largest possible physically present contingent of R.F. armed forces in the province.

You know, the base of lasting and just peace is (sadly) 3M I often mentioned: Megatons, Merkavas, MiG-s. No country which had them in abundance was subject to humanitarian bombing.

A majority of the Judges at the International Court of Justice gave their Non-Binding Advisory Opinion that it is not against International Law if someone Unilaterally Declares Independence.

They said that International Law is silent on the matter of UDI’s, and so they could not say that any UDI was Legal or Illegal under International Law, because these matters Rightfully come under the Jurisdiction of Domestic Laws, and United Nations Laws.

It is quite erroneous to say that the ICJ said that succession from a State was or is not Illegal, given the added fact that UNSCR 1244 was in force at the time, and continues to be in force today.

We all know that International Law only applies to countries, and the fact that the ICJ Judges answered the way they did was the polite way of saying that Kosovo is not a country.

Time frames were never a factor in the quest for a compromise, and this was proved by the fact that the first official though fake negotiations did not commence until seven years after the Peace Settlement UNSCR 1244 was signed in 1999.

The only factor in consideration was in finding a peaceful long term solution that was agreeable to both sides, and in accordance with International Law.

Indeed Ataman, "Доверяй - но проверяй", Trust and Verify. Verify being the most important aspect.

How can Pristina offer control to the serbs when Pristina does not even have control? It sounds like a 'promise' which is close to useless when it comes to the balkans.

As for Thaci and co. I'm surprised that any of them can spell 'autonomy' (and we know how far the albanians in Kosovo took autonomy under and after Tito) let alone fit their Kalashnikov fingers around a bic.

Why should Serbs accept autonomy when they now have total control and independence of territory they control?

BTW, guys (and ladies), I've got a brand new top of the range mercedes (none of that bavarian bmw tat) for sale that is in my garage. If you send me the money first...

I also know of a nigerian prince who has temporary problems with his bank and he is looking for someone in the west where he can deposit $15 million temporarily. Any offers?

"Kosovo Albanian PM Hashim Thaci’s advisor Dukadjin Gorani said that they were "ready to offer a special status to Serbs in the north"."

I have a theory -- Thaci & Co. finally realize that they can never truly be their own bosses under "supervised independence" -- EU calls all the shots -- they are actually lackeys of a new master who can stay as long as it likes. Only with Serbs' support can Pristina hope to have any chance of kicking out EULEX -- I have been seeing more and more "Out with EULEX" statements recently from pro-Albanian posters on B92.

This is what I see to be a sensible solution -- partition at the Ibar. In return for giving up the north and say, the Decani monastery, Pristina gets Belgrade to agree in return to recognize its full independence, free from the shackles of "supervised independence" which really means neo-colonial rule by EU at the latter's indefinite pleasure. Full independence including the right to merge with Tirana if they must. Just my opinion. But I think I must expect brickbats from both sides after this post!

"Why should Serbs accept autonomy when they now have total control and independence of territory they control?"
(Mikael C, 28 July 2010 20:04)

No reason they should - and I think the Kosovo Albanians know that best, based on their own experience ;-)

Do you really think the world and much less, Albanians would buy it?
(zotrules, 28 July 2010 13:13)
--
We can only offer reality. It is fairly clear ethnic Albanians do not want any seats in the Serbian parliament so why should they be offered? Self-rule for ethnic Albanians is already reality but attempting to rule Serbian areas is a recipe for disaster.

If we just accept reality all is clear. You can rule your own people, you can have foreign embassies for those wishing to recognise and establish diplomatic relations, you won't be getting a UN seat - so no UN vote, no Olympics, no FIFA and no membership to many other organisations.

Negotiations will generally be of a technical nature anyway. Who rules which regions - you say autonomy we say sovereignty, we say autonomy, you say independence - they are just words but reality is somewhere in between - more than autonomy, less than independence.

"He repeated Kosovo Albanian statements that the Serb community in northern Kosovo "must accept the reality", and also "understand that the problems must be solved through agreements and negotiations within the framework and borders of the state.”

In general, being ready for new talks and the will for an agreement is a good sign. But what "reality" is he talking about? And which borders of which state? He's not talking about Serbian borders, I guess ;-)

A lot to talk about - and maybe, on the other hand, time for Serbia to change their constitution again and to remove the newly introduced "(all) Kosovo is Serbia" paragraph.

B92, you are reprinting Blic's lie. Read here http://www.telegrafi.com/?id=2&a=9697 from Dukagjin Gorani, he never said that

This has nothing to do with Serbia really, they are testing what the Kosovar Albanians think about the proposal.

Actually all of these things published from Blic, seem to be the new tactic of the Serbian government, since Dell, Thaci, or Gorani seem to not have said any of these. This is how it seem the Serb government is laying the groundwork. They are psychologically preparing those in N. Mitrovica for either partition or autonomy. Now if they achieve that; that can indeed be a good thing. If not that can be disastrous for those that were expecting but will be disappointed. From the looks of it, it seems like N. Mitrovica will remain the way it is for a long long time. If uncle sam decide to change course then you might be into something; otherwise do not expect us to give Serbia something just so they can save face. This is again one of those scenarios where if you make our lives hard we will reciprocate. Of course when I mean we I mean the relationship between the US and the nuisance Serbia has became for them. Basically, expect more of the same.

Belgrade will counter this by offering autonomy for the North & Enclaves as well as Albanian parts WITHIN SERBIA. Dont expect Serbia to accept or reject any Albanian proposal before the talks begin in order not to alienate them but Albanians will reject re-integration, which will show lack of desire to compromise at the start and give Serbia a chance to blame the Albanians for not wanting to compromise when negotiations inevitably fail.

This story is about nothing. The Albanians cannot offer something that is not theirs. They say it is, and the US and ICJ allows them to say it is BUT, it is not, according to international law. If the US/EU wants to ignore international law, and force through this statelet-building effort for the K Albos, that is another story. The US has the biggest guns, so they take advantage of that and do whatever they want. It will change, no one stays at the top forever.

Sooner or later all countries in the region and those outside pulling strings are going to have face up to the only sustainable plan for long term peace.
Quite simply maps have to be redrawn, to reflect each ethnic people that warred in the Balkans to have their people governed and safeguarded by their own. Economically speaking sizable minorities won't need to sapp an uneven share of the host country's funds in exchange for loyaties. As hard and barbaric as it initially sounds exchanging populations in some cases will only effect this generation where as forcing all to live together will only bring the "drekovac" back to sow his damage in an endless cycle. Once and for all lets bite the bullet and make this sacrifice for the generations behind us not just in this situation but all of them.
How many times have we all tried to live together under how many so called systems for eventually the same suffering and result.
Think about it.

Fake News,Fake Propaganda from Blic.
"I am serious and deliberately misinterpreted my statement given to Belgrade daily" Blic "on July 27, 2010. Among other things, my views are coated concepts as "autonomy" and "special status" for the Serb community in the north. These are the thrills of Serbian journalist, which caused substantial deliberate mistake - despite the initial withdrawal notice to be careful during transmission, "Gorani said the" Voice ".

link:
http://www.zeri.info/artikulli/1/1/9470/gorani-pergenjeshtron-blicin/

Looking at Serbia’s reactions toward the ICJ decision it sought itself, It shouldn’t be offered anything. Even if you offered them entire Kosovo without people in it, they wouldn’t stop there. Next, they would claim Albania as their own land. And of course Albania has many orthodox churches for them to make such a claim. How do you deal with an eternal mortal enemy such as Serbia. You offer nothing! What have they offered Kosovo Albanians during the ninety years they occupied Kosovo. Nothing, but pain and brutality! The only thing Serbs can be offered is territory exchange, 3 towns of North Kosovo for 3 towns of Presevo valley. If they take it good, If they don’t, let them claim and cry forever, because US is there to stay. And as long as US exists, Serbia will be able to do nothing more but pass useless resolutions! I hope B92 publishes it, because it appears that some editor picks and chooses comments based on harshness of the opinion toward the Serbian front.

Of course the Serbs made it up, except reported here in Waz EU Observer three weeks ago on the 7th of July:

EU ready to discuss special status for North Kosovo
http://waz.euobserver.com/887/30438
A monument in Pristina. EU diplomats said Kosovo status and partition are no-go areas (Photo: CharlesFred)

ZELJKO PANTELIC AND AUGUSTIN PALOKAJ
07.07.2010 @ 10:55 CET

WAZ.EUobserver has learned that EU member states would be prepared to discuss a special solution for Kosovo's northern part in order to broker a final compromise between Belgrade and Pristina. The talks would have to take place after the International Court of Justice (ICJ) issues its advisory opinion on the legality of Kosovo's independence and be held under precise conditions.

Several diplomats told this website that any potential dialogue categorically excludes reopening negotiations on Kosovo's status or partition. The talks would depend on a constructive approach from Serbia in the UN General Assembly after the ICJ advisory opinion. In addition, the authorities in Belgrade would have to show a more constructive behaviour towards Kosovo, albeit with no obligation to recognise its independence.

"The best Serbia can obtain for the northern part of Kosovo with a Serbian majority is some kind of special status, something similar to Alto Adige [South Tirol in Italy] or Northern Ireland. Belgrade could be a guarantor of such a special status, as Vienna is in the case of the Italian province with an Austrian majority, and Dublin in the case of Ulster," explained one of our sources, from a major EU country.....

Much more at the link.
***

So who's telling pork pies (lies) now?

These EU states need Serbia to accept this potemkin village idea so that they can save face and still pretend that Kosovo is multi-cultural and that no-one is discriminated against and thus Pristina will at some point fulfill (paperwork) the real conditions for joinig the EU.

Clearly Serbia will focus on the continued discrimination by Pristina against the Serbs and all the other minorities who live under daily fear if they don't accept total subjugation by Pristina.

Why should Serbia go back to the 'good old days' under Tito where extensive discrimination went on yet was unreported due to 'brotherly unity'? It seems as if human right and the protection of minorities, especially when they are Serb are irrelevant to major EU states.

the fact is that Serbs in Kosovo- Mitrovica are residents and citizens of Serbia and will never not be citizens and residents of Serbia

"Should they separate and become part of Serbia, they will become the southern ghetto of Serbia and the world will forget they even exist."
(pss, 29 July 2010 19:37)

I agree, but that's a general problem of whole Kosovo. Once a peaceful solution has been found, all the donor money will stop to flow - and it won't take a year until the independent dream state of Kosovo will be bankrupt because there's no sustainable economy and 50% of unemployment.

What the Serbs of North Kosovo should do is to take the autonomy offer, without accepting any unreasonable demands from Pristina, yet also declare their independence from ethnic Albanian Kosovo. Now, in declaring their independence, the Northern Kosovo Serbs would not do any type of physical "break away", of course, otherwise there would be extreme, extreme trouble. The Northern Kosovo Serbs can simply declare their independence, even prepare a special, historical government document that states their independence, listing all the basic reasons why the Serbs want separation from the yoke of ethnic Albanian totalitarianism, since the International National Court of Justice would reaffirm that a people merely declaring their independence is allowed. Northern Kosovo would stay within the confines of Greater Kosovo. Then, the Serb minority of southern Kosovo, eastern Kosovo and western Kosovo can prepare a special historic decree of "desiring independence" from ethnic Albanian Kosovo without making any attempt at actually separating from ethnic Albanian Kosovo. Because the mere act of a people declaring independence is allowed by the ICJ, the world can recognize and affirm a people's right to declare their independence. One of the biggest reasons the Serbs can claim independence from the ethnic Albanians is that under the ethnic ALbanians, most of whom are Muslims, the churches and monasteries all got destroyed and very few ever got rebuilt. Some mosques were built over the ruins of destroyed churches; land stolen from church owners. The Serbs are denied having their churches and monasteries look the way they did before the ethnic Albanian Muslims destroyed them. Other reasons for declaring independence would include discrimination in jobs and education, ethnic discord, religious discord, etc.

...If you are not able to offer them anything whatsoever, if you are unable to even offer them a simple heart-felt apology... what do you really expect to happen? Do you really think the world and much less, Albanians would buy it?
(zotrules, 28 July 2010 13:13)

thank you, right on as usual :) there is no response from them.

roberto
frisco

"Why should Serbs accept autonomy when they now have total control and independence of territory they control?"
(Mikael C, 28 July 2010 20:04)

No reason they should - and I think the Kosovo Albanians know that best, based on their own experience ;-)
(Top, 29 July 2010 12:13)
Because they know as well as the rest of the world, they will only get help from Serbia as long as they remain a thorn in the side of Kosovo. Right now they get Kosovo money, international money and Serbia money. Should they separate and become part of Serbia, they will become the southern ghetto of Serbia and the world will forget they even exist.

(Yet Another J S., 28 July 2010 15:31)
Ever notice how universal it is that the "losers" always either point to corruption, bias, politically motivation, of the court and continue to minimize the decision or its importance and how it was in error.
But you now the end result is the same they were on the losing side.

Compromise and negotiations are gathering steam - slowly but surely. It is now obvious Pristina's plan to integrate the North has been dropped and the ICJ decision has changed nothing. This just demonstrates how weak the independence effort really is. It is irreversibly blocked and that is the reality Pristina and the West need to accept.

So my questions. PRN, what happened to the mass recognitions we were expecting on Monday? Amer, how did those negotiations go between the German foreign minister and Cyprus? It's all a bit amusing really - seeing so many people constantly hitting their heads against a brick wall. The brick wall is real my friends whereas the hologram projected into your heads is a fantasy.

More than autonomy, less than independence is self-fulfilling. Who is ready for real negotiations? Who is ready for true peace and reconciliation?

"He repeated Kosovo Albanian statements that the Serb community in northern Kosovo "must accept the reality", and also "understand that the problems must be solved through agreements and negotiations within the framework and borders of the state.”

In general, being ready for new talks and the will for an agreement is a good sign. But what "reality" is he talking about? And which borders of which state? He's not talking about Serbian borders, I guess ;-)

A lot to talk about - and maybe, on the other hand, time for Serbia to change their constitution again and to remove the newly introduced "(all) Kosovo is Serbia" paragraph.

Maximum autonomy but short for independence for Kosovo Province. Take it or leave Pristina. If you really interested for peace and stability in the Balkans. Go back to the negotiation table with Belgrade. ICJ decision did not solve anything. But Serbia will never give up Kosovo.

hahahahhahahahah this is the best thing ever. oh my what a great day. autonomy....no I think they would prefer independence =)

hi Zoran...
Why didn't you offer to the Albanians the same thing you wish them to offer to the Serbs, or what they are actually offering them?
The way i see it, less than 5% of the population(serbians) has 10% of the seats in the Parliament. Why have you never offered the same to the Albanians when you had the chance; before the bombings; or a peace offer; not subdue and humiliate them in all kinds of manners...
If you really consider Kosova yours, and you really REALLY care about it; you know what you should offer to them...
Kosova now has more than 2 million inhabitants and Albanians in Serbia (if you suffer so much to include Kosova) would make up at least 25% of the entire population. Would you be willing to offer them an Ahtisaari plan? Would you be willing and happy to offer them 50% of the seats in your parliament? (5% of the population=10% of seats; 25% of the population = 50% of the seats.) in change of that territorial integrity that you are propagating so much?
If you are not able to offer them anything whatsoever, if you are unable to even offer them a simple heart-felt apology... what do you really expect to happen? Do you really think the world and much less, Albanians would buy it?

This is so rich... annex territory, proclaim independence, get some countries with various interests and agendas to recognise you, terrorise various elements of the population into living ghettoised existences, and try and destroy important heritage.

Then offer the nation within whose legal boundaries you have carried out the above travesties 'autonomy'. Unbelievable! I don't blame the Kosovo Albanians for this mess - it has all been allowed and guided by outside parties.

If there is a partition, Northern Kosovo will remain as part of Serbia, the Serbian enclaves will have some sort of special status, and the remainder of Kosovo needs to discuss status with Serbia and their international guardians to find a solution that everyone can live with.

There should be no partition of Serbia at all in a fair world - but ultimately a peaceful solution has to be found.

Actually all of these things published from Blic, seem to be the new tactic of the Serbian government, since Dell, Thaci, or Gorani seem to not have said any of these. This is how it seem the Serb government is laying the groundwork. They are psychologically preparing those in N. Mitrovica for either partition or autonomy. Now if they achieve that; that can indeed be a good thing. If not that can be disastrous for those that were expecting but will be disappointed. From the looks of it, it seems like N. Mitrovica will remain the way it is for a long long time. If uncle sam decide to change course then you might be into something; otherwise do not expect us to give Serbia something just so they can save face. This is again one of those scenarios where if you make our lives hard we will reciprocate. Of course when I mean we I mean the relationship between the US and the nuisance Serbia has became for them. Basically, expect more of the same.

What happened to the 30 immediate recognitions? No bribe money left? I thought they "won" the ICJ case. Sounds like partition time. The us has run out of money for the k-albos.

Who is ready for real negotiations? Who is ready for true peace and reconciliation?
(Zoran, 28 July 2010 10:15)

Negotiations and the prospect of true peace are a nice thing. But as Comrade Ronald Reagan told to Mr. Gorbachyov:

"Доверяй - но проверяй". I.e. you should trust and be open towards the negotiation partner - but carry a big stick.

In that spirit, the best thing backing these negotiations should be the fullest possible (as far as 1244 allows) contingent of VS on the territory of KosMet, working closely with the largest possible physically present contingent of R.F. armed forces in the province.

You know, the base of lasting and just peace is (sadly) 3M I often mentioned: Megatons, Merkavas, MiG-s. No country which had them in abundance was subject to humanitarian bombing.

Gorani says that the border agreements were made on an "international level", then why would Belgrade talk at all with Pristina? The "internationals" divided Serbia apart, and are trying to redraw it's borders. Our fight is with the US/EU and not the Albanians, they are the West's tool, nothing more. Besides, what Serb politician would sit down with a KLA leader, Thaci, that was terrorizing and murdering Serbs on their own land ten years ago, and now talk good neighborly relations? This wanted criminal must go first, before a word is spoken between Serbs and K Albos. Is the West mad? Did they think that Serbia would just overlook this fact?

No country which had them in abundance was subject to humanitarian bombing.
(Ataman, 28 July 2010 11:24)
--
True, we don't have an abundance of that but we have an unbreakable will. :)

Look, little Serbia has taken on NATO. We've been bombed, we are at odds with the US, UK and Germany but we are still standing strong.

When it comes to negotiations, the end result simply must reflect reality. Why would one side give the other something it cannot achieve? Independence is irreversibly blocked. The North is firmly under Serbian control. Serbia has no control over Albanian areas. The Serbian enclaves are loyal to Serbia and want nothing to do with Pristina.

So lets negotiate. Albanians control their own people and areas while the rest is Serbia's. Some elements of independence can be offered but no UN seat. What is important? Freedom of movement (people and goods). Utilities (electricity, water, phone, etc...), courts and police, protection of religious and historical churches/monuments, etc....

The end result being a functional partition with two systems. One for Albanians and one for Serbians and others.

xaxaxax,very funny.Tell to mr Thaci to go to the center of N.Mitrovica if he is not afraid and state this!!!!
(Sikat, 28 July 2010 12:02)

I said the same thing about Tadic and co. , but none of them ever made it to Prishtina.

Indeed Ataman, "Доверяй - но проверяй", Trust and Verify. Verify being the most important aspect.

How can Pristina offer control to the serbs when Pristina does not even have control? It sounds like a 'promise' which is close to useless when it comes to the balkans.

As for Thaci and co. I'm surprised that any of them can spell 'autonomy' (and we know how far the albanians in Kosovo took autonomy under and after Tito) let alone fit their Kalashnikov fingers around a bic.

...If you are not able to offer them anything whatsoever, if you are unable to even offer them a simple heart-felt apology... what do you really expect to happen? Do you really think the world and much less, Albanians would buy it?
(zotrules, 28 July 2010 13:13)

thank you, right on as usual :) there is no response from them.

roberto
frisco

Sounds very familiar this situation. So let's assume that the Serbs continue to ignore Thaci and the Albanians try to implement independence. The Serbs in the north can use the "Kosovo precedent" to claim independence from kosovo as we now know it's legal to do so under international law and that the ICJ don't consider Kosovo to be a state (read the rulings very carefully), and as such "northern Kosovo" wouldn't be considered a state either.

So what would change? nothing. What has changed since the ICJ? nothing.

What everyone wants and needs is for the ICJ to give an answer to two questions. Is there a right to self determination and is there a right for a minority to secede. If the ICJ could be bothered to get off it's backside and give an answer to these questions the situation in Kosovo would be simplified overnight. EVERYONE would know the path forward. Declaring is one thing. your borders being recognised by International Law is another. We need an answer to those two questions and this is what Serbia should be asking for, not some stupid question about declarations.

xaxaxax,very funny.Tell to mr Thaci to go to the center of N.Mitrovica if he is not afraid and state this!!!!

Belgrade will counter this by offering autonomy for the North & Enclaves as well as Albanian parts WITHIN SERBIA. Dont expect Serbia to accept or reject any Albanian proposal before the talks begin in order not to alienate them but Albanians will reject re-integration, which will show lack of desire to compromise at the start and give Serbia a chance to blame the Albanians for not wanting to compromise when negotiations inevitably fail.

Looking at Serbia’s reactions toward the ICJ decision it sought itself, It shouldn’t be offered anything. Even if you offered them entire Kosovo without people in it, they wouldn’t stop there. Next, they would claim Albania as their own land. And of course Albania has many orthodox churches for them to make such a claim. How do you deal with an eternal mortal enemy such as Serbia. You offer nothing! What have they offered Kosovo Albanians during the ninety years they occupied Kosovo. Nothing, but pain and brutality! The only thing Serbs can be offered is territory exchange, 3 towns of North Kosovo for 3 towns of Presevo valley. If they take it good, If they don’t, let them claim and cry forever, because US is there to stay. And as long as US exists, Serbia will be able to do nothing more but pass useless resolutions! I hope B92 publishes it, because it appears that some editor picks and chooses comments based on harshness of the opinion toward the Serbian front.

This story is about nothing. The Albanians cannot offer something that is not theirs. They say it is, and the US and ICJ allows them to say it is BUT, it is not, according to international law. If the US/EU wants to ignore international law, and force through this statelet-building effort for the K Albos, that is another story. The US has the biggest guns, so they take advantage of that and do whatever they want. It will change, no one stays at the top forever.

As long as we have the western puppet regime working against Serbias interest, nothing will happen or in the worst case, Kosovo will indeed be lost because of Tadic perfect alibi to get rid of our souther province within the ICJ decision. So the Serbs must fight the KLA drug lords in Pristina, Camp Bondsteel-USA and their own bought politicos as well as the "opposition".

As for Atamans obsession with anything but the subject matter and israeli tanks, I would much rather go for our trusted Russian ones, remember NATO frustration after almost all returned to Serbia proper intact during the war (whish they took out on civilians and infrastructure).

Do you really think the world and much less, Albanians would buy it?
(zotrules, 28 July 2010 13:13)
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We can only offer reality. It is fairly clear ethnic Albanians do not want any seats in the Serbian parliament so why should they be offered? Self-rule for ethnic Albanians is already reality but attempting to rule Serbian areas is a recipe for disaster.

If we just accept reality all is clear. You can rule your own people, you can have foreign embassies for those wishing to recognise and establish diplomatic relations, you won't be getting a UN seat - so no UN vote, no Olympics, no FIFA and no membership to many other organisations.

Negotiations will generally be of a technical nature anyway. Who rules which regions - you say autonomy we say sovereignty, we say autonomy, you say independence - they are just words but reality is somewhere in between - more than autonomy, less than independence.

B92, you are reprinting Blic's lie. Read here http://www.telegrafi.com/?id=2&a=9697 from Dukagjin Gorani, he never said that

"Kosovo Albanian PM Hashim Thaci’s advisor Dukadjin Gorani said that they were "ready to offer a special status to Serbs in the north"."

I have a theory -- Thaci & Co. finally realize that they can never truly be their own bosses under "supervised independence" -- EU calls all the shots -- they are actually lackeys of a new master who can stay as long as it likes. Only with Serbs' support can Pristina hope to have any chance of kicking out EULEX -- I have been seeing more and more "Out with EULEX" statements recently from pro-Albanian posters on B92.

This is what I see to be a sensible solution -- partition at the Ibar. In return for giving up the north and say, the Decani monastery, Pristina gets Belgrade to agree in return to recognize its full independence, free from the shackles of "supervised independence" which really means neo-colonial rule by EU at the latter's indefinite pleasure. Full independence including the right to merge with Tirana if they must. Just my opinion. But I think I must expect brickbats from both sides after this post!

This has nothing to do with Serbia really, they are testing what the Kosovar Albanians think about the proposal.

A majority of the Judges at the International Court of Justice gave their Non-Binding Advisory Opinion that it is not against International Law if someone Unilaterally Declares Independence.

They said that International Law is silent on the matter of UDI’s, and so they could not say that any UDI was Legal or Illegal under International Law, because these matters Rightfully come under the Jurisdiction of Domestic Laws, and United Nations Laws.

It is quite erroneous to say that the ICJ said that succession from a State was or is not Illegal, given the added fact that UNSCR 1244 was in force at the time, and continues to be in force today.

We all know that International Law only applies to countries, and the fact that the ICJ Judges answered the way they did was the polite way of saying that Kosovo is not a country.

Time frames were never a factor in the quest for a compromise, and this was proved by the fact that the first official though fake negotiations did not commence until seven years after the Peace Settlement UNSCR 1244 was signed in 1999.

The only factor in consideration was in finding a peaceful long term solution that was agreeable to both sides, and in accordance with International Law.

So is autonomy offered or not?

Yesterday we first read that Hash is offering the same "more than autonomy less than independence" schtick to Mitrovica.

Then Dell denies such a thing was offered.

Now it's being published again?

Offering autonomy to a part of Kosovo Pristina has no authority over notwithstanding, if Pristina wants to look serious, offer the same conditions to at least Gracanica/Novo Brdo and Strpce. If such an offer for autonomy for the north is indeed on the table, Thaci should know these other two municipalities will want the same thing.

If they're really feeling European and are willing to compromise for the sake of multiethnic stability and territorial integrity, extend it also to Velika Hoca and Gorazdevac.

Throw in Dragas as well for the Gorani.

All within Kosovo's "borders".

Fake News,Fake Propaganda from Blic.
"I am serious and deliberately misinterpreted my statement given to Belgrade daily" Blic "on July 27, 2010. Among other things, my views are coated concepts as "autonomy" and "special status" for the Serb community in the north. These are the thrills of Serbian journalist, which caused substantial deliberate mistake - despite the initial withdrawal notice to be careful during transmission, "Gorani said the" Voice ".

link:
http://www.zeri.info/artikulli/1/1/9470/gorani-pergenjeshtron-blicin/

BTW, guys (and ladies), I've got a brand new top of the range mercedes (none of that bavarian bmw tat) for sale that is in my garage. If you send me the money first...

I also know of a nigerian prince who has temporary problems with his bank and he is looking for someone in the west where he can deposit $15 million temporarily. Any offers?

Why should Serbs accept autonomy when they now have total control and independence of territory they control?

(Yet Another J S., 28 July 2010 15:31)
Ever notice how universal it is that the "losers" always either point to corruption, bias, politically motivation, of the court and continue to minimize the decision or its importance and how it was in error.
But you now the end result is the same they were on the losing side.

But I think I must expect brickbats from both sides after this post!
(lowe, 28 July 2010 15:31)
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There are more Serbians south of the Ibar than the north. A partition will not work.

What the Serbs of North Kosovo should do is to take the autonomy offer, without accepting any unreasonable demands from Pristina, yet also declare their independence from ethnic Albanian Kosovo. Now, in declaring their independence, the Northern Kosovo Serbs would not do any type of physical "break away", of course, otherwise there would be extreme, extreme trouble. The Northern Kosovo Serbs can simply declare their independence, even prepare a special, historical government document that states their independence, listing all the basic reasons why the Serbs want separation from the yoke of ethnic Albanian totalitarianism, since the International National Court of Justice would reaffirm that a people merely declaring their independence is allowed. Northern Kosovo would stay within the confines of Greater Kosovo. Then, the Serb minority of southern Kosovo, eastern Kosovo and western Kosovo can prepare a special historic decree of "desiring independence" from ethnic Albanian Kosovo without making any attempt at actually separating from ethnic Albanian Kosovo. Because the mere act of a people declaring independence is allowed by the ICJ, the world can recognize and affirm a people's right to declare their independence. One of the biggest reasons the Serbs can claim independence from the ethnic Albanians is that under the ethnic ALbanians, most of whom are Muslims, the churches and monasteries all got destroyed and very few ever got rebuilt. Some mosques were built over the ruins of destroyed churches; land stolen from church owners. The Serbs are denied having their churches and monasteries look the way they did before the ethnic Albanian Muslims destroyed them. Other reasons for declaring independence would include discrimination in jobs and education, ethnic discord, religious discord, etc.

"Should they separate and become part of Serbia, they will become the southern ghetto of Serbia and the world will forget they even exist."
(pss, 29 July 2010 19:37)

I agree, but that's a general problem of whole Kosovo. Once a peaceful solution has been found, all the donor money will stop to flow - and it won't take a year until the independent dream state of Kosovo will be bankrupt because there's no sustainable economy and 50% of unemployment.

Sooner or later all countries in the region and those outside pulling strings are going to have face up to the only sustainable plan for long term peace.
Quite simply maps have to be redrawn, to reflect each ethnic people that warred in the Balkans to have their people governed and safeguarded by their own. Economically speaking sizable minorities won't need to sapp an uneven share of the host country's funds in exchange for loyaties. As hard and barbaric as it initially sounds exchanging populations in some cases will only effect this generation where as forcing all to live together will only bring the "drekovac" back to sow his damage in an endless cycle. Once and for all lets bite the bullet and make this sacrifice for the generations behind us not just in this situation but all of them.
How many times have we all tried to live together under how many so called systems for eventually the same suffering and result.
Think about it.

"Why should Serbs accept autonomy when they now have total control and independence of territory they control?"
(Mikael C, 28 July 2010 20:04)

No reason they should - and I think the Kosovo Albanians know that best, based on their own experience ;-)
(Top, 29 July 2010 12:13)
Because they know as well as the rest of the world, they will only get help from Serbia as long as they remain a thorn in the side of Kosovo. Right now they get Kosovo money, international money and Serbia money. Should they separate and become part of Serbia, they will become the southern ghetto of Serbia and the world will forget they even exist.

the fact is that Serbs in Kosovo- Mitrovica are residents and citizens of Serbia and will never not be citizens and residents of Serbia

Of course the Serbs made it up, except reported here in Waz EU Observer three weeks ago on the 7th of July:

EU ready to discuss special status for North Kosovo
http://waz.euobserver.com/887/30438
A monument in Pristina. EU diplomats said Kosovo status and partition are no-go areas (Photo: CharlesFred)

ZELJKO PANTELIC AND AUGUSTIN PALOKAJ
07.07.2010 @ 10:55 CET

WAZ.EUobserver has learned that EU member states would be prepared to discuss a special solution for Kosovo's northern part in order to broker a final compromise between Belgrade and Pristina. The talks would have to take place after the International Court of Justice (ICJ) issues its advisory opinion on the legality of Kosovo's independence and be held under precise conditions.

Several diplomats told this website that any potential dialogue categorically excludes reopening negotiations on Kosovo's status or partition. The talks would depend on a constructive approach from Serbia in the UN General Assembly after the ICJ advisory opinion. In addition, the authorities in Belgrade would have to show a more constructive behaviour towards Kosovo, albeit with no obligation to recognise its independence.

"The best Serbia can obtain for the northern part of Kosovo with a Serbian majority is some kind of special status, something similar to Alto Adige [South Tirol in Italy] or Northern Ireland. Belgrade could be a guarantor of such a special status, as Vienna is in the case of the Italian province with an Austrian majority, and Dublin in the case of Ulster," explained one of our sources, from a major EU country.....

Much more at the link.
***

So who's telling pork pies (lies) now?

These EU states need Serbia to accept this potemkin village idea so that they can save face and still pretend that Kosovo is multi-cultural and that no-one is discriminated against and thus Pristina will at some point fulfill (paperwork) the real conditions for joinig the EU.

Clearly Serbia will focus on the continued discrimination by Pristina against the Serbs and all the other minorities who live under daily fear if they don't accept total subjugation by Pristina.

Why should Serbia go back to the 'good old days' under Tito where extensive discrimination went on yet was unreported due to 'brotherly unity'? It seems as if human right and the protection of minorities, especially when they are Serb are irrelevant to major EU states.

"Why should Serbs accept autonomy when they now have total control and independence of territory they control?"
(Mikael C, 28 July 2010 20:04)

No reason they should - and I think the Kosovo Albanians know that best, based on their own experience ;-)