Parliament backs govt. Kosovo policy

This is fany!reconciliation btw serbian and albanian people IN ACORDANCE WITH SERBIAN CONSTITUTION ??!!
How about reconciliation in acordance with kosova constitution?

Expect early elections in Serbia after September.

The risk the Tadic is taking here is incredible, and will open the way for a Nationalist government to win the early elections should he fail to have the resolution voted in the UN General Assembly in September.

The gamble by Tadic seems to be that the EU and US simply can not stomack a Nationalist led government in Serbia and will therefore agree to pass some sort of resolution calling for negociations.

As far as the Kosovars are concerned, the negociations are over. No ammount of pressure will change that.

There is just no way the EU and the US will allow a resolution calling for 'status' talks to pass the UN General Assembly.

After the ICJ decision the EU was sending clear messages to Serbia "not to put them in such a position".

Zoran,

Why are you hypothesizing? You said:

“So lets split the territory based on ethnic division. Serbia loses 60% of Kosovo and gains 50% of BiH, 30% of Croatia and 50% of Montenegro. Happy?”

My history may be a little blurry but didn’t you actually try to split those ‘territories’ in the 90’s but failed miserably?

Has it ever occurred to you that all of this is happening ‘BECAUSE’ Serbia put those hypothesis in practice in the 90’s?

I suspect that, should Serbia submitt a resolution before the UN General Assembly calling for status negociations, the 22 EU countries which have recognized Kosovo will vote against such resolution, not because of any particular love they have for an independent Kosovo but because they have sent clear signals to Serbia recently that they are getting tired of the EU's united foreign policy beeing tested and abused by the current Serbian Government for its own internal political purposes.

Even a hint at 'status' negociations will lead these EU countries to vote against the Serbian resolution.

Such a negative vote would clearly undermine the current Serbian government, who's main policy is Euro-Atlantic integration.

Nick

I agree with most of what you said. However, your comment is not without a major flaw. The EU and US do not control the UN. As you know two thirds of the UN do not recognise Kosovo and more than likely will not, given the threat to international peace. I just wonder what Tadic and co will do when the EU explicitly states that they cannot join the EU unless they recognise Kosovo. This will happen, mark my words. At this point Tadic and co will be exposed as incompetent liars.

dingdong,

True, the US and EU do not control the UN General Assembly, but we need to take into account the influence these countries have on other countries that will be voting at the UN GA.

If we take for example the vote at the UN GA on whether to send the question on the legality of Kosovo's UDI to the ICJ, the vote was like this:

77 Countries voted for the initiative; 5 Countries voted against; 74 countries abstained; 36 did not vote because they were absent or did not have the right to vote because they had failed to fulfill their financial obligations towards the UN.

In predicting a vote at the UN general assembly we need to take into account 2 things:

1. The ICJ advisory opinion, which is likely to encourage the states that have recognized Kosovo to vote against the Serb resolution and the countries that have not declared their position to either vote against the Serb resolution or abstain. There will almost certainly be some countries that will vote for the Serbian resolution, but the number will not be significant.

2. The two resolutions are fundamentally different in nature. While many countries found it difficult to reject Serbia's request for addressing the ICJ and either voted for it or abstained, this time its a completely other matter, and pressure from the EU and US will be much higher on the voting countries because everyone understands that this is the endgame.

How about the Serbians being generous and giving up Kosovo? The Chechnians want to be Chechnians from Chechnia, not Chechnians forced to belong to another nation! What is the point a wife holding a husband when he wants to be divorced? No good comes out of unhappiness, just illness, decay and decrepitness. A kind gesture, for a change, may reap trade and other benefits over the longer term and the world may think a bit more highly of Serbia than it does now. Someone has to give a little, whether the problems go back to the primitive milennia or not.

Someone has to give a little, whether the problems go back to the primitive milennia or not.
(J Butterfield, 27 July 2010 12:01)
--
No problem, lets just make it a common policy in all of the former YU. Why should we be denied independence in parts of BiH and Croatia but allow parts of Serbia to go freely?

So lets split the territory based on ethnic division. Serbia loses 60% of Kosovo and gains 50% of BiH, 30% of Croatia and 50% of Montenegro. Happy?

Good, so Croatia gets part of BiH, Bosnian Muslims get parts of Sandjak (in Serbia and Montengro) and Albanians get a large chunk of FYROM. That should do it, right? Poor FYROMians and Montenegrins, they are the big losers and end up with unsustainable statelets.

Now, are we going to allow the Kurds, Palestinians and hundreds of other separatists to have their own country? The reason I like the ICJ decision is because I believe they should. What's the point of locking so many people in a country they have no interest in?

So basically, lets make this policy universal. Agreed?

So nobody in the parliament or the media is concerned that like the ICJ this resolution might not get a pass? So "Serbia will never Recognize Kosovo's UDI" is enough? And it doesn't matter that in a period of two months you might loose the political battle after the legal one that you already lost?

"The National Assembly finds it necessary to come through peaceful negotiations to a permanent, sustainable and mutually acceptable solution for Kosovo and Metohija, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CONSTITUTION OF THE REPUBLIC OF SERBIA, which would enable an historic reconciliation of the Serbian and Albanian people, as well as peace and stability in the region," the text of the adopted document says. "

-- Forget this once and for all. You cannot expect a historic reconciliation with the Albanian people based on the Serbian Constitution. No sane ethnic group would ever accept to reconcile based on a constitution they were not even allowed to vote for; their names weren't even on the voter's list. So here you have Serbia trying to shove reconciliation by force based on their own terms. You cannot call for reconciliation and at the same time force such reconciliation based on your will and your own terms ( the Serb Constitution). That is not reconciliation, that is called domination. That is never going to happen. Unless you of course are ok with taking the risk of seeing things in Belgrade that haven't happened since 1999. If you are ok with that, the I guess this policy from your government makes total sense.

I watched part of this session last night and it was what a mess with some Ministers speaking as if milos was still in power.

But some old Minister(old looking) said this that how can we say this is politically motivated but Serbia not committing genocide in Bosnia ICJ ruling was in favor of serbia but now we say its politically motivated.

That parlament had no solution for what to do and they were asked Tadic and Vuk who most were quiet angry at what if we loose again.

Serbia is hurting only therie kids who will have to deal with bad economy and same time Serbia is fightin for nothing

As you know two thirds of the UN do not recognise Kosovo and more than likely will not, given the threat to international peace.
(dingdong, 27 July 2010 12:29)

First, “the threat to international peace” I assume it’s your own opinion since I can’t see how something that is not a violation of international law can be a threat to international peace.

Second, your statement is incorrect. The correct statement would be that 2/3 of the UN member countries(not UN - the UN is not in the business of recognitions) have not made a statement that they recognize Kosovo. Some of these 2/3 (like Serbia, Russia, Cyprus, etc) have stated that they do not recognize Kosovo. But the large majority has not stated anything; neither “I recognize” nor “I do not recognize”.

If you want to know what they think you need to consider other acts of these states which have not made any statement about the recognition or not-recognition. For example, 109 countries considered Kosovo to be a country when they voted to admit it to the World Bank and IMF.

Tadic is taking a gamble that could potentially pay off.
Of course, it could work against him.

Getting the Serb parliament behind him shows the world that most Serb politicians are like minded and they're turning their backs on the West. This could turn out disastrous for Serbia for many years to come.

Unless, it's a ploy to fool the Serbian people. We'll see.

Tadic will probably lose this one. However, in doing so, he'll have shown his people that he tried his best to keep Mitrovica but the powers that be conspired against him.
So, the dilemma will be whether to then recognize Kosovo and join the EU or not recognize.

The next logical thing will be recognize Kosova to prevent Serbia from further isolation. By that time, which could be a couple more years, most people will be tired of losing and happy to save face and recognize Kosova.

If he loses his presidency, he'll go down as the president who tried harder than any other to keep Kosovo after the war. He would still have a political career.

Either way, he wins. And, the people lose.

This is fany!reconciliation btw serbian and albanian people IN ACORDANCE WITH SERBIAN CONSTITUTION ??!!
How about reconciliation in acordance with kosova constitution?
(delon, 27 July 2010 12:30)
===================

What would that be?

The risk the Tadic is taking here is incredible, and will open the way for a Nationalist government to win the early elections should he fail to have the resolution voted in the UN General Assembly in September.

There is just no way the EU and the US will allow a resolution calling for 'status' talks to pass the UN General Assembly.
======================

So Serbian government in nationalistic. What would you call your "Kosova" governemnt then? Democratic?

The US can actually prevent GA from voting against their wishes? I have to see that.

This is fany!reconciliation btw serbian and albanian people IN ACORDANCE WITH SERBIAN CONSTITUTION ??!!
How about reconciliation in acordance with kosova constitution?

How about the Serbians being generous and giving up Kosovo? The Chechnians want to be Chechnians from Chechnia, not Chechnians forced to belong to another nation! What is the point a wife holding a husband when he wants to be divorced? No good comes out of unhappiness, just illness, decay and decrepitness. A kind gesture, for a change, may reap trade and other benefits over the longer term and the world may think a bit more highly of Serbia than it does now. Someone has to give a little, whether the problems go back to the primitive milennia or not.

Someone has to give a little, whether the problems go back to the primitive milennia or not.
(J Butterfield, 27 July 2010 12:01)
--
No problem, lets just make it a common policy in all of the former YU. Why should we be denied independence in parts of BiH and Croatia but allow parts of Serbia to go freely?

So lets split the territory based on ethnic division. Serbia loses 60% of Kosovo and gains 50% of BiH, 30% of Croatia and 50% of Montenegro. Happy?

Good, so Croatia gets part of BiH, Bosnian Muslims get parts of Sandjak (in Serbia and Montengro) and Albanians get a large chunk of FYROM. That should do it, right? Poor FYROMians and Montenegrins, they are the big losers and end up with unsustainable statelets.

Now, are we going to allow the Kurds, Palestinians and hundreds of other separatists to have their own country? The reason I like the ICJ decision is because I believe they should. What's the point of locking so many people in a country they have no interest in?

So basically, lets make this policy universal. Agreed?

Nick

I agree with most of what you said. However, your comment is not without a major flaw. The EU and US do not control the UN. As you know two thirds of the UN do not recognise Kosovo and more than likely will not, given the threat to international peace. I just wonder what Tadic and co will do when the EU explicitly states that they cannot join the EU unless they recognise Kosovo. This will happen, mark my words. At this point Tadic and co will be exposed as incompetent liars.

Expect early elections in Serbia after September.

The risk the Tadic is taking here is incredible, and will open the way for a Nationalist government to win the early elections should he fail to have the resolution voted in the UN General Assembly in September.

The gamble by Tadic seems to be that the EU and US simply can not stomack a Nationalist led government in Serbia and will therefore agree to pass some sort of resolution calling for negociations.

As far as the Kosovars are concerned, the negociations are over. No ammount of pressure will change that.

There is just no way the EU and the US will allow a resolution calling for 'status' talks to pass the UN General Assembly.

After the ICJ decision the EU was sending clear messages to Serbia "not to put them in such a position".

I suspect that, should Serbia submitt a resolution before the UN General Assembly calling for status negociations, the 22 EU countries which have recognized Kosovo will vote against such resolution, not because of any particular love they have for an independent Kosovo but because they have sent clear signals to Serbia recently that they are getting tired of the EU's united foreign policy beeing tested and abused by the current Serbian Government for its own internal political purposes.

Even a hint at 'status' negociations will lead these EU countries to vote against the Serbian resolution.

Such a negative vote would clearly undermine the current Serbian government, who's main policy is Euro-Atlantic integration.

"The National Assembly finds it necessary to come through peaceful negotiations to a permanent, sustainable and mutually acceptable solution for Kosovo and Metohija, IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE CONSTITUTION OF THE REPUBLIC OF SERBIA, which would enable an historic reconciliation of the Serbian and Albanian people, as well as peace and stability in the region," the text of the adopted document says. "

-- Forget this once and for all. You cannot expect a historic reconciliation with the Albanian people based on the Serbian Constitution. No sane ethnic group would ever accept to reconcile based on a constitution they were not even allowed to vote for; their names weren't even on the voter's list. So here you have Serbia trying to shove reconciliation by force based on their own terms. You cannot call for reconciliation and at the same time force such reconciliation based on your will and your own terms ( the Serb Constitution). That is not reconciliation, that is called domination. That is never going to happen. Unless you of course are ok with taking the risk of seeing things in Belgrade that haven't happened since 1999. If you are ok with that, the I guess this policy from your government makes total sense.

Zoran,

Why are you hypothesizing? You said:

“So lets split the territory based on ethnic division. Serbia loses 60% of Kosovo and gains 50% of BiH, 30% of Croatia and 50% of Montenegro. Happy?”

My history may be a little blurry but didn’t you actually try to split those ‘territories’ in the 90’s but failed miserably?

Has it ever occurred to you that all of this is happening ‘BECAUSE’ Serbia put those hypothesis in practice in the 90’s?

So nobody in the parliament or the media is concerned that like the ICJ this resolution might not get a pass? So "Serbia will never Recognize Kosovo's UDI" is enough? And it doesn't matter that in a period of two months you might loose the political battle after the legal one that you already lost?

dingdong,

True, the US and EU do not control the UN General Assembly, but we need to take into account the influence these countries have on other countries that will be voting at the UN GA.

If we take for example the vote at the UN GA on whether to send the question on the legality of Kosovo's UDI to the ICJ, the vote was like this:

77 Countries voted for the initiative; 5 Countries voted against; 74 countries abstained; 36 did not vote because they were absent or did not have the right to vote because they had failed to fulfill their financial obligations towards the UN.

In predicting a vote at the UN general assembly we need to take into account 2 things:

1. The ICJ advisory opinion, which is likely to encourage the states that have recognized Kosovo to vote against the Serb resolution and the countries that have not declared their position to either vote against the Serb resolution or abstain. There will almost certainly be some countries that will vote for the Serbian resolution, but the number will not be significant.

2. The two resolutions are fundamentally different in nature. While many countries found it difficult to reject Serbia's request for addressing the ICJ and either voted for it or abstained, this time its a completely other matter, and pressure from the EU and US will be much higher on the voting countries because everyone understands that this is the endgame.

I watched part of this session last night and it was what a mess with some Ministers speaking as if milos was still in power.

But some old Minister(old looking) said this that how can we say this is politically motivated but Serbia not committing genocide in Bosnia ICJ ruling was in favor of serbia but now we say its politically motivated.

That parlament had no solution for what to do and they were asked Tadic and Vuk who most were quiet angry at what if we loose again.

Serbia is hurting only therie kids who will have to deal with bad economy and same time Serbia is fightin for nothing

This is fany!reconciliation btw serbian and albanian people IN ACORDANCE WITH SERBIAN CONSTITUTION ??!!
How about reconciliation in acordance with kosova constitution?
(delon, 27 July 2010 12:30)
===================

What would that be?

The risk the Tadic is taking here is incredible, and will open the way for a Nationalist government to win the early elections should he fail to have the resolution voted in the UN General Assembly in September.

There is just no way the EU and the US will allow a resolution calling for 'status' talks to pass the UN General Assembly.
======================

So Serbian government in nationalistic. What would you call your "Kosova" governemnt then? Democratic?

The US can actually prevent GA from voting against their wishes? I have to see that.

Tadic is taking a gamble that could potentially pay off.
Of course, it could work against him.

Getting the Serb parliament behind him shows the world that most Serb politicians are like minded and they're turning their backs on the West. This could turn out disastrous for Serbia for many years to come.

Unless, it's a ploy to fool the Serbian people. We'll see.

Tadic will probably lose this one. However, in doing so, he'll have shown his people that he tried his best to keep Mitrovica but the powers that be conspired against him.
So, the dilemma will be whether to then recognize Kosovo and join the EU or not recognize.

The next logical thing will be recognize Kosova to prevent Serbia from further isolation. By that time, which could be a couple more years, most people will be tired of losing and happy to save face and recognize Kosova.

If he loses his presidency, he'll go down as the president who tried harder than any other to keep Kosovo after the war. He would still have a political career.

Either way, he wins. And, the people lose.

As you know two thirds of the UN do not recognise Kosovo and more than likely will not, given the threat to international peace.
(dingdong, 27 July 2010 12:29)

First, “the threat to international peace” I assume it’s your own opinion since I can’t see how something that is not a violation of international law can be a threat to international peace.

Second, your statement is incorrect. The correct statement would be that 2/3 of the UN member countries(not UN - the UN is not in the business of recognitions) have not made a statement that they recognize Kosovo. Some of these 2/3 (like Serbia, Russia, Cyprus, etc) have stated that they do not recognize Kosovo. But the large majority has not stated anything; neither “I recognize” nor “I do not recognize”.

If you want to know what they think you need to consider other acts of these states which have not made any statement about the recognition or not-recognition. For example, 109 countries considered Kosovo to be a country when they voted to admit it to the World Bank and IMF.