"Priština lobbies for new recognitions"

Thanks to Serbian request for ICJ's advisory opinion, our recognition as a state throughout out the world just became much easier.

They need app 30 recognitions on top of 69 to attempt to subvert Russia's INEVITABLE VETO and getting those 30 recognitions when they haven't gotten them by now won't be easy.

# Thanks to Serbian request for ICJ's advisory opinion, our recognition as a state throughout out the world just became much easier.
(Pejoni, 25 July 2010 15:06)

Yes, quite funny, not unexpected, and, in fact, it -- the icj ruling -- was all predicted. by us. but they refused to listen (as usual), either a victim of their own delusional propaganda, OR just determined to bull forward, despite the obvious.

you have to wonder. the blgd regime bullied, pressured and scared enough members of the UNGA (it was never a majority, but anyway why keep pushing that?) to go along to the ICJ, but then the blgd regime IMMediately declared: we'll accept no other verdict than the one we want!

what kind of bizarre, disrespectful and basically irrational reaction is that? i can't imagine that such a message helped them w/the court. not to mention their continuing harboring of mass-murderer mladic.

and now that they've "lost" kosova yet again, this time obviously forever, has anyone else noticed that their posters are getting nastier than ever? i mean nasty! just when you thought it couldn't get lower...

as for "RS", clearly the next target -- i just rec'd an email from a good frnd in Bosnia. tensions are up, do-dik is making loud noises again. there will be trouble, i believe, as long as the intl community allows it. this is serbia's long-term modus operandi, sad to say. if not in one place, then another; if not there, than a third. it's all related, anyone who doesn't see the obvious connection is consciously shielding themself.

from the beginning they announced their intentions: if we lose on kosova, then we re-target bosnia. at least many of their posters wrote that here, loud and clear, certainly since our declaration of independence in 2008.

and that was also the time when my beloved sonia biserko (you know, the one who is totally marginalized here) wrote: The target of the nationalists has always been bosnia.

when i first read that, i thought, why be writing about bosnia now? why? because she's an intellectual w/ great clarity who has lived in serbia her entire life, and knows her own people, for better and for worse.

anyway, things are nastier here, but at least interesting. i believe we will see many more recognitions for kosova coming, and progress in many areas inside kosova. and many more recognitions. but we have to remain strong, and ready for anything.

thanks.
roberto
frisc0

“Our goal is to increase the number of recognitions, because after the ICJ decision, there is no dilemma that the independence of Kosovo is in accordance with international law,” Deputy Prime Minister Hajredin Kuqi said.

Not exactly! The ruling was not about the legality of the independence of Kosovo (as a state), but only about the legality of the UDI, i.e. the DECLARATION of independence. I know, it's silly and hard to understand, but the ICJ stated it clearly exactly that way and only answered the given question in the most narrow way.

Just to make it clear, the ICJ did not say that Kosovo's independence didn't violate international law. The ICJ ruling said that the declaration of independence did not violate international law. Kosovo's Albanians better hurry before people get wind of what the court really said. Given that some countries are not budging on their stance on Kosovo's independence and recognitions, this will be a poor situations into the far future unless negotiations start again.
(Daniel, 25 July 2010 14:44)

This new fake argument that Kosovo's declaration of independence was legal but Kosovo's secession isn't legal is the most pathetic desperate argument I've ever come across. It is extremely comical, very amusing I must say. Is that the best you can come up with? It is ridiculous!

It is a bit like saying you're allowed to buy food but you aren't allowed to eat it.

A declaration of independence is a method of creating a country. Serbia asked the ICJ if it was legal for Kosovo to make itself a country and the ICJ said it wasn't against international law. Therefore Kosovo's independence is legal in the eyes of International Law!

This is why more countries shall recognise Kosovo.

"anyway, things are nastier here, but at least interesting. i believe we will see many more recognitions for kosova coming, and progress in many areas inside kosova. and many more recognitions. but we have to remain strong, and ready for anything." (roberto)

-- First, the level of nastiness here has unfortunately been a staple for years. It comes from all sides, including your own colleagues. Just check any comment thread that involves Greece, Cyprus, or Spain if you don’t believe me. Some of it is indeed trolling. Others are what we like to call “different opinions from the ones who are reading it”. I assume this is clear to you, but I also assumed I could rationally argue with the local Tea Bagger protesting in front of my post office one afternoon. I’ll never do that again! But I'm not here to talk about intractable biases and slants. Let's get practical for a minute. If only for the sake of (attempted) intelligent conversation:

Yes, I do believe that more recognitions will come for Kosovo in the coming weeks and months. At this stage, Pristina has a good opportunity to turn what it already regarded as a self-evident fact into a legally sanctified approval - regardless of the interpretation and spin both sides were (and are) expected to give. They could use this to their advantage, and if they do, they are to be commended. But I doubt they’ll do anything good with it since they have a notorious record for screwing up an opportunity others figuratively place on their desk. Recognition from Papua New Guinea, Haiti, or Jamaica does little. The big fish will only be won over once Pristina assumes intelligent and mature responsibility for itself. Which brings me to the main point of this sensible/senseless comment/rant.

Since you're that interested in "progress" in Kosovo, as many of us are, I wonder what you think about Pristina's stellar leaders coming to Washington to lobby for what I can only imagine is money for recognitions instead of money for investment and industrial growth?

Here’s my two cents: How about instead of going to Washington and kissing Biden's bum for diplomatic assistance in countries they obviously can’t go to themselves, they go to Bentonville, AK and ask Lee Duke for a Walmart? How about going to Atlanta, GA and ask Muhtar Kent for a Coca Cola bottling plant? How about going to the Netherlands, another recognizing country, and ask for an IKEA? Or call up their old buddy Dick Cheney and asking for some investment in Halliburton? Do they even have a Starbucks? Better yet, how about instead of asking for retail stores and plants, they offer to manufacture the goods there? Why, Vucitrn could be the next Guanxiao Province. I think lots of us would like to see the “Made in Kosova” label on something other than a package of heroin. How about doing something for the people of Kosovo instead of the small clique that doesn't have to worry about unemployment, a lack of indoor plumbing, and frequent electrical shortages? Your faith in Kosovo’s future seems continuously miscarried by its inept leadership.

Haven't we been hearing for a while now that Kosovo is supported by the world's largest and strongest economies? Haven't we been hearing that the US backs Kosovo in everything? How about translating that support into honest investment in its factories, schools, and public works projects? Why is the US looking to invest in the rest of Serbia and not Kosovo? What about Germany, UK, France, et al? Surely with supposed friends like that, they’d do more than throw a bag of money at a bunch of kleptocrats, knowing it’s just going to build another Turbo Mansion or privatize another industry for Thaci’s clique.

With this in mind, it seems to me that additional recognitions at this point are secondary to increasing the quality of life and producing some form of domestic economic growth. If recognitions are sparse or the "blgd regime" is doing its damndest to create a frozen conflict, what better way to "unfreeze" it and convince the nay-sayers that Kosovo DOES have a future beyond a US dependency, than by working to improve the quality of life, of which currently Kosovo ranks close to the bottom in Europe? Isn't this also the original idea of the EU and the US? To pump money into Kosovo, get the economy going and then show those mindless Chetnikoid Serbs north of the Ibar that this could be part of their dream too? I mean seriously. Thaci needs to lobby CEOs, not foreign governments. Pristina doesn’t need another embassy. It needs a business center.

What good are additional recognitions going to do when a) the chair of Kosovo’s central bank is arrested for embezzlement, and b) the KLA “hero” (and Thaci’s most serious political opponent – how convenient) finds himself back at the Hague for a retrial of war crimes? If Pristina’s leadership were smart (and they’ve proven time and again to be far from it), they’d realize that “standards” will get them the “status” they’re seeking – without the predictable US help. Because if after an ICJ approval, the advantages given to them are still squandered, and if by the end of the year Jeremić is able to turn a legal defeat into a political and economic stalemate, Kosovo’s leadership is truly comprised of some of the most incompetent people to ever run a government.

"Kosovo Prime Minister Hashim Thaci is currently in America, where he is meeting with U.S. senior officials who promised that they would help in the process of garnering new recognitions." (B92)

-- Considering the nature of the ICJ ruling, Pristina needs to take off the diapers and put on some big boy pants now. They shouldn't have to rely on Big Daddy US anymore. If they can get these recognitions on their own, more power to them and their image of a self-sustaining government gains credibility. If they still need Washington to do all the work for them, they really have not learned anything and really don't care about Kosovo's status beyond a US dependency. It's really funny that the US and indirectly Belgrade are giving K-Albanians more than anything their elected officials in Pristina could do, or would do, on their own.

Just to make it clear, the ICJ did not say that Kosovo's independence didn't violate international law. The ICJ ruling said that the declaration of independence did not violate international law. Kosovo's Albanians better hurry before people get wind of what the court really said. Given that some countries are not budging on their stance on Kosovo's independence and recognitions, this will be a poor situations into the far future unless negotiations start again.

"This new fake argument that Kosovo's declaration of independence was legal but Kosovo's secession isn't legal is the most pathetic desperate argument I've ever come across. It is extremely comical, very amusing I must say. Is that the best you can come up with? It is ridiculous!

It is a bit like saying you're allowed to buy food but you aren't allowed to eat it.

A declaration of independence is a method of creating a country. Serbia asked the ICJ if it was legal for Kosovo to make itself a country and the ICJ said it wasn't against international law. Therefore Kosovo's independence is legal in the eyes of International Law!

This is why more countries shall recognise Kosovo.
(Ian, UK, 25 July 2010 17:48)"

Do you not understand? Read the opinion which expressly states that it does not deal with whether the secession was legal. It's written in black and white, it's clear and indisputable. Well it's indisputable to a normal person anyway.

Serbia DID think it was a "pathetic", "desperate" and "comical" argument but that was what the ICJ said. You are basically disagreeing with the advisory opinion. Well done.

Ian, I can see from your comment that you are a highly educated individual. Sorry, I cannot stop myself from laughing as I am writing this. It is quite amusing. Your inane attempt at an argument is sophomoric at best, although that would be giving you too much credit. The fact is that the ruling is exactly what it states. Perhaps that's too complex reasoning for your pathetic mind. What exactly did the ICJ say about independence? Oh wait, they didn't want to rule on it. For your information, independence and a declaration of independence are two completely different things. If you don't believe me, look back into the history of the United States. Was the declaration of independence from England the same as actual independence? No, the Americans had to fight for actual independence. Kosovo's Albanians can declare independence as much as they desire, yet other countries don't have to recognize it. So go ahead play some more with yourself; I'm sure you are quite used to doing it but don't let your mother catch you.

Where does this magic number of "100" recognitions come from? Would someone please point me to where it says getting 100 recognitions gets one around the Security Council. Does one need a majority in the GA to put the issue to the UNSC? Then the veto card is played?

If it was 10 years ago, Pristina might have been able to get those 30 more recognitions, but not today. The US just does not have the money anymore to buy them. Let's be honest.

Well, this is it really. If Pristina can't get any recognitions of any significance now then it should be fairly obvious to all that independence didn't have a chance to begin with.

This will be a good slap in to face to the West and a sign that their power is seriously diminished.

So all I can say is push as hard as you can and prove to yourselves that it's a lost cause. A stillbirth is exactly that. Why pretend it's something else? Denial?

Daniel: "Just to make it clear, the ICJ did not say that Kosovo's independence didn't violate international law. The ICJ ruling said that the declaration of independence did not violate international law. Kosovo's Albanians better hurry before people get wind of what the court really said. Given that some countries are not budging on their stance on Kosovo's independence and recognitions, this will be a poor situations into the far future unless negotiations start again."

Exactly, and it seems that although the media are playing the ICJ 'says that independence is legal' card, governments are not quite so blind.

Nothing has changed whatsoever, which is actually disappointing/ beneficial to all depending on your stance.

The ICJ has managed to avoid the actual question about the right to declare independence pretty cleverly. Every country is now pushing for 'talks'.

That's what is required - talks in whatever guise which take the situation forward to enable a genuine solution to be reached. Everyone knows that, which is why all the 'major countries' are now making it a priority.

I would imagine that in the end, Kosovo will pick up all the recognitions it needs to put forth a case at the UNGA for membership. Yes there is a veto power which China and/or Russia might exercise, but if you have well over a majority of the UNGA members in support, then the veto may be watered down to an abstention.

Noting also that none of the 69 countries have or ever would 'reverse' their recognition, the diplomatic battle lines are in Kosovo's favour as it becomes Serbia trying to hold onto the remaining non-recognition states. The balance will tip as one by one nations switch.

The question might be "who is next to recognise". Which country would be the first after the ICJ ruling to recognise?

If you're looking at a magical 100 countries, then Kosovo would need 31.

There are a number of countries in the Pacific that do not have 'secessionist' issues that could now switch. Countries like PNG, Tonga, Kiribati, East Timor, Solomon Islands, Tuvalu give you +6. The Caribbean and Africa (especially Muslim Africa) are also potential spots. Egypt, a key nation in the Middle East, changes from time to time between "No recognition" and "We will do it sooner or later".

I believe that Kosovo will get the numbers it wants eventually, but that whether or not that is enough to convince Russia and China to actually use their veto. China has used the veto four times (on Zimbabwe, Myanmar, UNPREDEP in Macedonia, Guatemela) since 1996 and Russia also 4 (on Georgia-Abkhazia,Zimbabwe, Myanmar and terminating UNFICYP in Cyprus)

"It is a bit like saying you're allowed to buy food but you aren't allowed to eat it. "

Almost correct. The ICJ ruling about food would have been like: Yes, buying food is perfectly legal, but we don't have to decide if you are allowed to eat it, because we haven't been asked for our opinion on that.

"A declaration of independence is a method of creating a country. Serbia asked the ICJ if it was legal for Kosovo to make itself a country and the ICJ said it wasn't against international law. Therefore Kosovo's independence is legal in the eyes of International Law! "
(Ian, UK, 25 July 2010 17:48)

No, Serbia asked if the UDI is legal or not. The ICJ decided that the Kosovo UDI was legal (and the ruling reads like an UDI is legal for anyone, no mention about the special case of Kosovo). They explicitely stated that the ruling is NOT about the right for secession or about the statehood of Kosovo.

Why don't people simple read the exact wording of the ICJ ruling? It was linked from somewhere even here on B92!

to me the best outcome of the ICJ opinion is that i don't 'hear' anyone from the serbian camp quoting or saying 1244 anymore....ICJ clearly explained and broke down the legal meaning of 1244 and the DI did not go against 1244.
Peace,

"With this in mind, it seems to me that additional recognitions at this point are secondary to increasing the quality of life and producing some form of domestic economic growth."

With one more vote, Kosovo gets membership in the EBRD, which will mean that private companies can borrow money to do just what you suggest - invest.

More recognitions improve their chances of UN membership, opening the way to development grants - everybody keeps talking about the infrastructure, there's no way they can borrow enough to improve it to acceptable standards.

But what a country really needs to attract investment is the rule of law - nobody's going to invest if they have to worry about having their investment stolen. EULEX has apparently been investigating for nearly 2 years, now it's beginning to make arrests. Corruption is hardly a Kosovo-specific problem, by the way, but be that as it may, it's got to make more progress here. In addition, there are problems of who owns what - Serbia removed the records during the war, leaving a fine mess it's been in no hurry to clean up.

So first things first - concentrate on getting recognitions, getting Serbia to stop hindering every step it tries to take, put its house in order, and by the time this recession is over, it'll be a lot more attractive to business. It has some natural advantages - the highest level of German speakers in the Balkans, for example, making it attractive to German companies for call-centers. India did well with that idea, if you remember.

"Why is the US looking to invest in the rest of Serbia and not Kosovo? What about Germany, UK, France, et al? Surely with supposed friends like that, they’d do more than throw a bag of money at a bunch of kleptocrats, knowing it’s just going to build another Turbo Mansion or privatize another industry for Thaci’s clique."

Mike, it's not communism, so states (the US, Germany) don't invest! It's private companies (coming from western countries) which could build factories in Kosovo. But why the hell should they? Companies invest in reliable countries, they avoid unnecessary risk, and not in some uncertain and unstable regions with some dubious government. And they usually don't like corruption (unless they can gain a lot, like in Nigeria or so), as bribes are additional expenses.

to me the best outcome of the ICJ opinion is that i don't 'hear' anyone from the serbian camp quoting or saying 1244 anymore....ICJ clearly explained and broke down the legal meaning of 1244 and the DI did not go against 1244.
Peace,
(blue and gold, 25 July 2010 22:33)

The ICJ opinion is at best a “dog’s breakfast” of a decision. On the one hand declaring independence was not illegal but on the other it would not declare Kosovo as independent. The western media immediately went into overdrive declaring as a positive ruling for the albos when in fact it was nothing – neither side got a clear answer on the question asked.

It does not for one moment affect Resolution 1224 – its business as usual in the so called “supervised independent state of Kosovo”. Yes I know the US will carry on in public but secretly it does not want to give the Albos free rule either - KFOR, the UN and all others will still be there - nothing changes.

The ICJ decided that the Kosovo UDI was legal (and the ruling reads like an UDI is legal for anyone, no mention about the special case of Kosovo).
Why don't people simple read the exact wording of the ICJ ruling? It was linked from somewhere even here on B92!
(Top, 25 July 2010 22:45)

I think you must read the exact wording. It did not say that UDI is legal for anyone. It said that for a specific UDI (Kosovo’s) on a specific date (17/02/2008). It does not even cover the Kosovo’s UDI of 1991, let alone that of other entities worldwide.

The opinion of the Court was “that the declaration of independence of Kosovo adopted on 17 February 2008 did not violate international law”.

The Court did not say anywhere that “declarations of independence do not violate international law”.

Just to make it clear, the ICJ did not say that Kosovo's independence didn't violate international law. The ICJ ruling said that the declaration of independence did not violate international law. Kosovo's Albanians better hurry before people get wind of what the court really said. Given that some countries are not budging on their stance on Kosovo's independence and recognitions, this will be a poor situations into the far future unless negotiations start again.

If it was 10 years ago, Pristina might have been able to get those 30 more recognitions, but not today. The US just does not have the money anymore to buy them. Let's be honest.

# Thanks to Serbian request for ICJ's advisory opinion, our recognition as a state throughout out the world just became much easier.
(Pejoni, 25 July 2010 15:06)

Yes, quite funny, not unexpected, and, in fact, it -- the icj ruling -- was all predicted. by us. but they refused to listen (as usual), either a victim of their own delusional propaganda, OR just determined to bull forward, despite the obvious.

you have to wonder. the blgd regime bullied, pressured and scared enough members of the UNGA (it was never a majority, but anyway why keep pushing that?) to go along to the ICJ, but then the blgd regime IMMediately declared: we'll accept no other verdict than the one we want!

what kind of bizarre, disrespectful and basically irrational reaction is that? i can't imagine that such a message helped them w/the court. not to mention their continuing harboring of mass-murderer mladic.

and now that they've "lost" kosova yet again, this time obviously forever, has anyone else noticed that their posters are getting nastier than ever? i mean nasty! just when you thought it couldn't get lower...

as for "RS", clearly the next target -- i just rec'd an email from a good frnd in Bosnia. tensions are up, do-dik is making loud noises again. there will be trouble, i believe, as long as the intl community allows it. this is serbia's long-term modus operandi, sad to say. if not in one place, then another; if not there, than a third. it's all related, anyone who doesn't see the obvious connection is consciously shielding themself.

from the beginning they announced their intentions: if we lose on kosova, then we re-target bosnia. at least many of their posters wrote that here, loud and clear, certainly since our declaration of independence in 2008.

and that was also the time when my beloved sonia biserko (you know, the one who is totally marginalized here) wrote: The target of the nationalists has always been bosnia.

when i first read that, i thought, why be writing about bosnia now? why? because she's an intellectual w/ great clarity who has lived in serbia her entire life, and knows her own people, for better and for worse.

anyway, things are nastier here, but at least interesting. i believe we will see many more recognitions for kosova coming, and progress in many areas inside kosova. and many more recognitions. but we have to remain strong, and ready for anything.

thanks.
roberto
frisc0

"Kosovo Prime Minister Hashim Thaci is currently in America, where he is meeting with U.S. senior officials who promised that they would help in the process of garnering new recognitions." (B92)

-- Considering the nature of the ICJ ruling, Pristina needs to take off the diapers and put on some big boy pants now. They shouldn't have to rely on Big Daddy US anymore. If they can get these recognitions on their own, more power to them and their image of a self-sustaining government gains credibility. If they still need Washington to do all the work for them, they really have not learned anything and really don't care about Kosovo's status beyond a US dependency. It's really funny that the US and indirectly Belgrade are giving K-Albanians more than anything their elected officials in Pristina could do, or would do, on their own.

“Our goal is to increase the number of recognitions, because after the ICJ decision, there is no dilemma that the independence of Kosovo is in accordance with international law,” Deputy Prime Minister Hajredin Kuqi said.

Not exactly! The ruling was not about the legality of the independence of Kosovo (as a state), but only about the legality of the UDI, i.e. the DECLARATION of independence. I know, it's silly and hard to understand, but the ICJ stated it clearly exactly that way and only answered the given question in the most narrow way.

They need app 30 recognitions on top of 69 to attempt to subvert Russia's INEVITABLE VETO and getting those 30 recognitions when they haven't gotten them by now won't be easy.

Well, this is it really. If Pristina can't get any recognitions of any significance now then it should be fairly obvious to all that independence didn't have a chance to begin with.

This will be a good slap in to face to the West and a sign that their power is seriously diminished.

So all I can say is push as hard as you can and prove to yourselves that it's a lost cause. A stillbirth is exactly that. Why pretend it's something else? Denial?

Daniel: "Just to make it clear, the ICJ did not say that Kosovo's independence didn't violate international law. The ICJ ruling said that the declaration of independence did not violate international law. Kosovo's Albanians better hurry before people get wind of what the court really said. Given that some countries are not budging on their stance on Kosovo's independence and recognitions, this will be a poor situations into the far future unless negotiations start again."

Exactly, and it seems that although the media are playing the ICJ 'says that independence is legal' card, governments are not quite so blind.

Nothing has changed whatsoever, which is actually disappointing/ beneficial to all depending on your stance.

The ICJ has managed to avoid the actual question about the right to declare independence pretty cleverly. Every country is now pushing for 'talks'.

That's what is required - talks in whatever guise which take the situation forward to enable a genuine solution to be reached. Everyone knows that, which is why all the 'major countries' are now making it a priority.

"This new fake argument that Kosovo's declaration of independence was legal but Kosovo's secession isn't legal is the most pathetic desperate argument I've ever come across. It is extremely comical, very amusing I must say. Is that the best you can come up with? It is ridiculous!

It is a bit like saying you're allowed to buy food but you aren't allowed to eat it.

A declaration of independence is a method of creating a country. Serbia asked the ICJ if it was legal for Kosovo to make itself a country and the ICJ said it wasn't against international law. Therefore Kosovo's independence is legal in the eyes of International Law!

This is why more countries shall recognise Kosovo.
(Ian, UK, 25 July 2010 17:48)"

Do you not understand? Read the opinion which expressly states that it does not deal with whether the secession was legal. It's written in black and white, it's clear and indisputable. Well it's indisputable to a normal person anyway.

Serbia DID think it was a "pathetic", "desperate" and "comical" argument but that was what the ICJ said. You are basically disagreeing with the advisory opinion. Well done.

Just to make it clear, the ICJ did not say that Kosovo's independence didn't violate international law. The ICJ ruling said that the declaration of independence did not violate international law. Kosovo's Albanians better hurry before people get wind of what the court really said. Given that some countries are not budging on their stance on Kosovo's independence and recognitions, this will be a poor situations into the far future unless negotiations start again.
(Daniel, 25 July 2010 14:44)

This new fake argument that Kosovo's declaration of independence was legal but Kosovo's secession isn't legal is the most pathetic desperate argument I've ever come across. It is extremely comical, very amusing I must say. Is that the best you can come up with? It is ridiculous!

It is a bit like saying you're allowed to buy food but you aren't allowed to eat it.

A declaration of independence is a method of creating a country. Serbia asked the ICJ if it was legal for Kosovo to make itself a country and the ICJ said it wasn't against international law. Therefore Kosovo's independence is legal in the eyes of International Law!

This is why more countries shall recognise Kosovo.

Thanks to Serbian request for ICJ's advisory opinion, our recognition as a state throughout out the world just became much easier.

Where does this magic number of "100" recognitions come from? Would someone please point me to where it says getting 100 recognitions gets one around the Security Council. Does one need a majority in the GA to put the issue to the UNSC? Then the veto card is played?

Ian, I can see from your comment that you are a highly educated individual. Sorry, I cannot stop myself from laughing as I am writing this. It is quite amusing. Your inane attempt at an argument is sophomoric at best, although that would be giving you too much credit. The fact is that the ruling is exactly what it states. Perhaps that's too complex reasoning for your pathetic mind. What exactly did the ICJ say about independence? Oh wait, they didn't want to rule on it. For your information, independence and a declaration of independence are two completely different things. If you don't believe me, look back into the history of the United States. Was the declaration of independence from England the same as actual independence? No, the Americans had to fight for actual independence. Kosovo's Albanians can declare independence as much as they desire, yet other countries don't have to recognize it. So go ahead play some more with yourself; I'm sure you are quite used to doing it but don't let your mother catch you.

"anyway, things are nastier here, but at least interesting. i believe we will see many more recognitions for kosova coming, and progress in many areas inside kosova. and many more recognitions. but we have to remain strong, and ready for anything." (roberto)

-- First, the level of nastiness here has unfortunately been a staple for years. It comes from all sides, including your own colleagues. Just check any comment thread that involves Greece, Cyprus, or Spain if you don’t believe me. Some of it is indeed trolling. Others are what we like to call “different opinions from the ones who are reading it”. I assume this is clear to you, but I also assumed I could rationally argue with the local Tea Bagger protesting in front of my post office one afternoon. I’ll never do that again! But I'm not here to talk about intractable biases and slants. Let's get practical for a minute. If only for the sake of (attempted) intelligent conversation:

Yes, I do believe that more recognitions will come for Kosovo in the coming weeks and months. At this stage, Pristina has a good opportunity to turn what it already regarded as a self-evident fact into a legally sanctified approval - regardless of the interpretation and spin both sides were (and are) expected to give. They could use this to their advantage, and if they do, they are to be commended. But I doubt they’ll do anything good with it since they have a notorious record for screwing up an opportunity others figuratively place on their desk. Recognition from Papua New Guinea, Haiti, or Jamaica does little. The big fish will only be won over once Pristina assumes intelligent and mature responsibility for itself. Which brings me to the main point of this sensible/senseless comment/rant.

Since you're that interested in "progress" in Kosovo, as many of us are, I wonder what you think about Pristina's stellar leaders coming to Washington to lobby for what I can only imagine is money for recognitions instead of money for investment and industrial growth?

Here’s my two cents: How about instead of going to Washington and kissing Biden's bum for diplomatic assistance in countries they obviously can’t go to themselves, they go to Bentonville, AK and ask Lee Duke for a Walmart? How about going to Atlanta, GA and ask Muhtar Kent for a Coca Cola bottling plant? How about going to the Netherlands, another recognizing country, and ask for an IKEA? Or call up their old buddy Dick Cheney and asking for some investment in Halliburton? Do they even have a Starbucks? Better yet, how about instead of asking for retail stores and plants, they offer to manufacture the goods there? Why, Vucitrn could be the next Guanxiao Province. I think lots of us would like to see the “Made in Kosova” label on something other than a package of heroin. How about doing something for the people of Kosovo instead of the small clique that doesn't have to worry about unemployment, a lack of indoor plumbing, and frequent electrical shortages? Your faith in Kosovo’s future seems continuously miscarried by its inept leadership.

Haven't we been hearing for a while now that Kosovo is supported by the world's largest and strongest economies? Haven't we been hearing that the US backs Kosovo in everything? How about translating that support into honest investment in its factories, schools, and public works projects? Why is the US looking to invest in the rest of Serbia and not Kosovo? What about Germany, UK, France, et al? Surely with supposed friends like that, they’d do more than throw a bag of money at a bunch of kleptocrats, knowing it’s just going to build another Turbo Mansion or privatize another industry for Thaci’s clique.

With this in mind, it seems to me that additional recognitions at this point are secondary to increasing the quality of life and producing some form of domestic economic growth. If recognitions are sparse or the "blgd regime" is doing its damndest to create a frozen conflict, what better way to "unfreeze" it and convince the nay-sayers that Kosovo DOES have a future beyond a US dependency, than by working to improve the quality of life, of which currently Kosovo ranks close to the bottom in Europe? Isn't this also the original idea of the EU and the US? To pump money into Kosovo, get the economy going and then show those mindless Chetnikoid Serbs north of the Ibar that this could be part of their dream too? I mean seriously. Thaci needs to lobby CEOs, not foreign governments. Pristina doesn’t need another embassy. It needs a business center.

What good are additional recognitions going to do when a) the chair of Kosovo’s central bank is arrested for embezzlement, and b) the KLA “hero” (and Thaci’s most serious political opponent – how convenient) finds himself back at the Hague for a retrial of war crimes? If Pristina’s leadership were smart (and they’ve proven time and again to be far from it), they’d realize that “standards” will get them the “status” they’re seeking – without the predictable US help. Because if after an ICJ approval, the advantages given to them are still squandered, and if by the end of the year Jeremić is able to turn a legal defeat into a political and economic stalemate, Kosovo’s leadership is truly comprised of some of the most incompetent people to ever run a government.

to me the best outcome of the ICJ opinion is that i don't 'hear' anyone from the serbian camp quoting or saying 1244 anymore....ICJ clearly explained and broke down the legal meaning of 1244 and the DI did not go against 1244.
Peace,

"Why is the US looking to invest in the rest of Serbia and not Kosovo? What about Germany, UK, France, et al? Surely with supposed friends like that, they’d do more than throw a bag of money at a bunch of kleptocrats, knowing it’s just going to build another Turbo Mansion or privatize another industry for Thaci’s clique."

Mike, it's not communism, so states (the US, Germany) don't invest! It's private companies (coming from western countries) which could build factories in Kosovo. But why the hell should they? Companies invest in reliable countries, they avoid unnecessary risk, and not in some uncertain and unstable regions with some dubious government. And they usually don't like corruption (unless they can gain a lot, like in Nigeria or so), as bribes are additional expenses.

"It is a bit like saying you're allowed to buy food but you aren't allowed to eat it. "

Almost correct. The ICJ ruling about food would have been like: Yes, buying food is perfectly legal, but we don't have to decide if you are allowed to eat it, because we haven't been asked for our opinion on that.

"A declaration of independence is a method of creating a country. Serbia asked the ICJ if it was legal for Kosovo to make itself a country and the ICJ said it wasn't against international law. Therefore Kosovo's independence is legal in the eyes of International Law! "
(Ian, UK, 25 July 2010 17:48)

No, Serbia asked if the UDI is legal or not. The ICJ decided that the Kosovo UDI was legal (and the ruling reads like an UDI is legal for anyone, no mention about the special case of Kosovo). They explicitely stated that the ruling is NOT about the right for secession or about the statehood of Kosovo.

Why don't people simple read the exact wording of the ICJ ruling? It was linked from somewhere even here on B92!

"With this in mind, it seems to me that additional recognitions at this point are secondary to increasing the quality of life and producing some form of domestic economic growth."

With one more vote, Kosovo gets membership in the EBRD, which will mean that private companies can borrow money to do just what you suggest - invest.

More recognitions improve their chances of UN membership, opening the way to development grants - everybody keeps talking about the infrastructure, there's no way they can borrow enough to improve it to acceptable standards.

But what a country really needs to attract investment is the rule of law - nobody's going to invest if they have to worry about having their investment stolen. EULEX has apparently been investigating for nearly 2 years, now it's beginning to make arrests. Corruption is hardly a Kosovo-specific problem, by the way, but be that as it may, it's got to make more progress here. In addition, there are problems of who owns what - Serbia removed the records during the war, leaving a fine mess it's been in no hurry to clean up.

So first things first - concentrate on getting recognitions, getting Serbia to stop hindering every step it tries to take, put its house in order, and by the time this recession is over, it'll be a lot more attractive to business. It has some natural advantages - the highest level of German speakers in the Balkans, for example, making it attractive to German companies for call-centers. India did well with that idea, if you remember.

I would imagine that in the end, Kosovo will pick up all the recognitions it needs to put forth a case at the UNGA for membership. Yes there is a veto power which China and/or Russia might exercise, but if you have well over a majority of the UNGA members in support, then the veto may be watered down to an abstention.

Noting also that none of the 69 countries have or ever would 'reverse' their recognition, the diplomatic battle lines are in Kosovo's favour as it becomes Serbia trying to hold onto the remaining non-recognition states. The balance will tip as one by one nations switch.

The question might be "who is next to recognise". Which country would be the first after the ICJ ruling to recognise?

If you're looking at a magical 100 countries, then Kosovo would need 31.

There are a number of countries in the Pacific that do not have 'secessionist' issues that could now switch. Countries like PNG, Tonga, Kiribati, East Timor, Solomon Islands, Tuvalu give you +6. The Caribbean and Africa (especially Muslim Africa) are also potential spots. Egypt, a key nation in the Middle East, changes from time to time between "No recognition" and "We will do it sooner or later".

I believe that Kosovo will get the numbers it wants eventually, but that whether or not that is enough to convince Russia and China to actually use their veto. China has used the veto four times (on Zimbabwe, Myanmar, UNPREDEP in Macedonia, Guatemela) since 1996 and Russia also 4 (on Georgia-Abkhazia,Zimbabwe, Myanmar and terminating UNFICYP in Cyprus)

to me the best outcome of the ICJ opinion is that i don't 'hear' anyone from the serbian camp quoting or saying 1244 anymore....ICJ clearly explained and broke down the legal meaning of 1244 and the DI did not go against 1244.
Peace,
(blue and gold, 25 July 2010 22:33)

The ICJ opinion is at best a “dog’s breakfast” of a decision. On the one hand declaring independence was not illegal but on the other it would not declare Kosovo as independent. The western media immediately went into overdrive declaring as a positive ruling for the albos when in fact it was nothing – neither side got a clear answer on the question asked.

It does not for one moment affect Resolution 1224 – its business as usual in the so called “supervised independent state of Kosovo”. Yes I know the US will carry on in public but secretly it does not want to give the Albos free rule either - KFOR, the UN and all others will still be there - nothing changes.

The ICJ decided that the Kosovo UDI was legal (and the ruling reads like an UDI is legal for anyone, no mention about the special case of Kosovo).
Why don't people simple read the exact wording of the ICJ ruling? It was linked from somewhere even here on B92!
(Top, 25 July 2010 22:45)

I think you must read the exact wording. It did not say that UDI is legal for anyone. It said that for a specific UDI (Kosovo’s) on a specific date (17/02/2008). It does not even cover the Kosovo’s UDI of 1991, let alone that of other entities worldwide.

The opinion of the Court was “that the declaration of independence of Kosovo adopted on 17 February 2008 did not violate international law”.

The Court did not say anywhere that “declarations of independence do not violate international law”.