Athens “ready to support stability in Balkans”

If you're ready to support stability in the Balkans then prove it by recognising Kosovo as an independent state.

Greece, am an albanian orthodox brother and i represent 20 percent of albanian orthodox in albania. Please regognize Kosovo. IT should have been a country since 1912. Better late then never. You know our history as us and you , are the oldest countries in Balkan.

. Kosovo Albanians can not hold a candle to Greece economically, so what gives you the right to criticize them? (inNYC

Seriously, how can you even compare Albanians to Greeks, when more than half of your nation has been checked off on the 'Descendants of Albanians' in that genetic marker. Also, about that work ethic, it was a majority of Albanians who built your Olympic stadium and prepared your nation for all visitors. If the Greeks depended on purely ethnic Greeks to build their structures, the Olympics would have been postponed and probably switched to Prague for their events. Greece needs to show more respect for half of their Arvaniti/Albanian ethnic population. They're the ones holding the foundation of your nation together.

Watch oit for Greece. They are the only country out of the five EU countries that havent recognized Kosovo that have not come out and reitirate their previous position with regards to Kosovo.

I think Greece recognition is imminent!

Uli, Kosovo was never a country. What are you talking about? Please, end this debate of your historic sovereignty, and provide a source which states that kosovo was ever a country. Let's be honest in our assertions.
(winston, 24 July 2010 14:36)

You are winston that Kosova was not a country, but Kosova and Alabani were one country called Albania. Fatal mistake was done in Malta(Stalin,Churchil and Rosevelt) when axis powers decided to split Albania in less than half.

Its very easy for Greece, Russia, Cyprus and Spain and others to proclaim that 'oh, we are strongly favoring an agreement based on dialogue, and only that'. First, these countries are not exactly prime examples of countries being able to resolve their own protracted problems through dialogue. Secondly, what did these countries ever contribute to in terms of being an host broker for other countries' conflicts, let alone the Serbia-Kosovo one? And with all due respect for my many dear Greek friends, and I do have many, after having wasted billions and billions of Northern European tax money on your corrupt administration and lack of work ethic, while blocking a neighboring country's aspirations for European integration over an issue as mickey mouse as the name, this is not the best of times for Athens to preach standards and principles.

Furthermore, the negotiations under Ahtisaari proved what everybody already knew: identifying a political compromise for the Kosovo status is like finding a compromise medical status of being half-way pregnant. Either you are or you aint!

During those negotiations it was clear that for Belgrade, keeping nominal sovereignty over Kosovo was more important than the status and rights of the Serbs in Kosovo, fully aware that they would not be able (or willing) to have any kind of real governance over Kosovo other than in name. Likewise, Pristina was willing to sacrifice unprecedented autonomy and levels of rights to non-Albanian citizens in Kosovo, to the extent that they would make it virtually impossible to foresee a functioning future Kosovo state.

So there we are.

How interesting. An ambiguous statement on being "ready to support stability in the Balkans". On one level we get "the Greek position is well known", but on another we get "we're in consulation with our EU partners". And not a definitive statement of whether Greece would stick to its policy of not recognizing Kosovo. The other 4 made clear statements saying they won't.

Is it only me or why Greece doesn't make an explicit statement on Kosovo? "Good-neighborly relations" can have many conclusions.

Athens is stuck in the 90s, when it thought it was a 'global player' and a beacon of hope in a crappy neighborhood. While I am not certain as to why its foreign policy is what it is, not recognizing facts in the ground it does not serve its interests. But then again, they didnt recognize their own debts until last year, so to expect recognition of Kosovo is indeed too much to hope from these hesychasts.

Athens better looks to support her budget..

Is it only me or why Greece doesn't make an explicit statement on Kosovo? "Good-neighborly relations" can have many conclusions.
(Legal_State, 24 July 2010 14:19)

Here it is.

"The Greek position is well known, and preserving peace, stability and cooperation in the Balkans is our key priority,” the Greek foreign ministry stated.

Simply,nothing has changed after the ICJ ruling as far as Kosovo is concerned.

We won't be forced to recognise a province- pretending to be a state- which has been created out of narco-terrorism.

There never was a country Kosovo and there never will be. It is a creation of narcoterrorists and criminals. My Albanian Orthodox brother should know that and should never forget they too suffered under the Turkalbanians who took the religion of their conquerors and became worse than they. Greece will never recognose this illegitimate action.

"Balcanico, in trying to sound intelligent, your comment is unclear in what point you are trying to make. Your attempted put-down of greece holds no water either. Most of the world is in financial hardship, including your beloved America. Kosovo Albanians can not hold a candle to Greece economically, so what gives you the right to criticize them? I am sure that if Greece had recoognized the separatist Albanians quest, and illegal UDI, you would be chirping a different tune.
inNYC"

I think was Balcanico was trying to say is that Greece is not a role model.
Greece cooked the books and duped investors...not exactly ethical.

If it was a corporation it would be facing legal action (think Enron).

For those of you claiming that Kosovo was never a state...it wasn't a state because it was part of Albania!

Uli, Kosovo was never a country. What are you talking about? Please, end this debate of your historic sovereignty, and provide a source which states that kosovo was ever a country. Let's be honest in our assertions.

We won't be forced to recognise a province- pretending to be a state- which has been created out of narco-terrorism.
(Leonidas, 24 July 2010 15:33)

Nothing is clear, especially in that statement. So be careful what you say. You Fakelakis still own quite much for your robbery. It smells like soon you have chance to repay parts of your debt.

If you're ready to support stability in the Balkans then prove it by recognising Kosovo as an independent state.
(Ian, UK, 24 July 2010 11:20)

Forget it!
We care about stability in the balcans. US politicians live far away they don't realy care about stability here.

Its funny how Albanians say Greece and Serbia should better treat their minorities when it is Albanians who flood both our countries. And that is how Albanians became a majority in Kosovo after the last 50 years, especially after the Kosovo Albanians sided with the Nazis.
Also, Greeks are not Albanians - especially we Arvanites who are descendants of the ancient Dorians who first settled Greece from many thousands of years. We had our own Greek identity since time immemorial. In 1821 we fought those who wished to keep us under Ottoman occupation, including thhe Turkoalbanians. Had it not been for the Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman empires (who wished to spur hatred and division in the Balkans - "divide and conquer") many modern "Albanians" would not have lost the Hellenic consciousness of their ancestors who knew they were part of one of the greates civilisations on the planet. Much like the modern Turkish state with a large part of its population coming from those who were forcibly converted.

"We won't be forced to recognise a province- pretending to be a state- which has been created out of narco-terrorism."

We? memo to you: Greece is not an independent state so no one will be asking you. IMF, Germany and France that are keeping your corrupt 'state' alive with loans decide.

Chameria is next! The land from Albania down to Arta is owned by Cham families, for generations before Greece was even formed. You never lose those land rights, and within a decade you will see them back in their ancestral lands.

P.S. The Turks in Janina and Crete are also looking at the Ottoman defters to make claims.

Well, agree 100% with Mike here. Just adding that this diplomatic wording points to the fact that Greece will be the next EU-country to recognize. As Mr. Papoulias stated one year ago, Greece sticks to the intl law in its stance on Kosovo. This is the well-known stance of Greece regarding Kosovo. They can act now (and make happy the rest of EU minus 4)

Balcanico, in trying to sound intelligent, your comment is unclear in what point you are trying to make. Your attempted put-down of greece holds no water either. Most of the world is in financial hardship, including your beloved America. Kosovo Albanians can not hold a candle to Greece economically, so what gives you the right to criticize them? I am sure that if Greece had recoognized the separatist Albanians quest, and illegal UDI, you would be chirping a different tune.

You do realize that Kosovo Albanians are Muslim, unlike Albania where you do have some Christians.
So, you speaking up as an Orthodox brother does not hold any water. You have nothing in common with K-Albanians.
(Peggy, 25 July 2010 02:50)

So, following your logic, a Serb has nothing in common with another Serb unless they are both Orthodox?

If Greece recognize kosovo than ll have to recognize N.Cyrpus,Republika srpska and N.Mitrovica of course bec if K/A have the right for independece why cant have it also the others?So what is going to happen?Should we start recognizing whoever wants to be independent?But you Albanians are muppets of USA and you go wherever the wind blows....

"Uli, Kosovo was never a country. "

To which I say, so what? The States along the American seaboard were not a country (much less "united") until the after the Revolution and our Declaration of Independence. In fact, it was the experience of war and revolution that made us a nation. In Judge Judge Cançado Trindade's separate opinion on the ICJ decision he suggests that a "people" can be defined by shared suffering in addition to shared language, history, etc. He said nothing about having previously been a state being a requirement for becoming a state.

How interesting. An ambiguous statement on being "ready to support stability in the Balkans". On one level we get "the Greek position is well known", but on another we get "we're in consulation with our EU partners". And not a definitive statement of whether Greece would stick to its policy of not recognizing Kosovo. The other 4 made clear statements saying they won't.
(Mike, 24 July 2010 15:52

The Greek statement is not ambiguous at all.Greece and Cyprus operate in tandem as far as all foreign policy issues are concerned.
Greece has never said in the past that their position will
be determined by the ICJ ruling.

The meaning of the Greek statement can be read as for both Albanians and Serbs to get over the present impasse there must be negotiations.

Leonidas, actually I interpret it like Greece are put under tremendous pressure to recognize Kosovo. Because of the economic crisis Greece may have to cave in to blackmail from U.S. and EU and that's why the statement is ambiguous. Those western powers are behaving more and more like mafia for every day. No wonder they like the temporary institutions in Pristina...

I pray for Greece that you will be able to withstand the pressure you are put under and not recognize Kosovo.

inNYC

If my arguments were unclear to you, perhaps you should refrain from commenting upon them?

My point should have been pretty clear:

- Athens is not particularly well-placed for the time being to preach others about the virtue of sticking to principles and good governance

- ICJ came to the conclusion it did simply because there is no international law forbidding declarations of independence, just like there is no international law as such prohibiting anybody proclaiming that the moon is made of cheese

- it has been clear for all who can read that the status of Kosovo is a political matter,

and;

-Belgrade and Pristina are, on their own or with the use of a mediator, as likely to agree on a compromise solution on the status as a woman could hope to become 'just a little bit pregnant'

balcanico

"Simply,nothing has changed after the ICJ ruling as far as Kosovo is concerned. "

But Jeremic promised everybody - over and over that this decision would be a game-changer! Serbia would send a "tim snova" that would vindicate Serbia's claims before the world ... and so on.

In legal terms maybe not much has changed - although more people now realize that under all but certain specified conditions an 'udi' is not in itself illegal - but in practical terms, all those countries that didn't want to recognize Kosovo until they were reassured about the legal status of the declaration - for example, Greece, at least since the new government was installed - well, they can consider themselves reassured.

And as for becoming a legal state, as Crawford said in his statement in December before the court, there is a procedure for legalizing a state - it's called "recognition."

I think unfortunately this will mean recognition because they're using the language of all the other countries that have recognised. I thought if one of the five would crack it would be Greece, because they're government always do and have clearly wanted to recognise Kosovo the whole time. It's always the same. They could have saved Cyprus but didn't because the Americans told them not to, same with Imia, and now the Americans are telling them what to do with Kosovo. Still hopefully they will have to prepare for riots on the streets of every city this time, because you will probably even find more Serbs who support Kosovo's independence than Greeks.

uvdozAlbanianIllyrsThesprotians

yes yes truth is revealed once again. albanians the oldest nation on earth we are all albanians!
uvdozAlbanianIllyrsThesprotians thank you for helping us find our roots again. seems smoking that illegal weed that albanians are famous for smuggling all over europe can damage your brain afterall. really the most ridiculous comment i have even seen here!!!

Well, I'm glad the circus is over. It was a quick show with lots of fun but very little substance.

Now if Greece recognises Kosovo where does that put Cyprus? Does that now mean we can legitimately accept the UDI from the Turkish part? Germany is attempting to say the ruling only applies to Kosovo but I think most people will disagree. If Greece does recognise Kosovo then it will put itself at odds not only with Serbia but also Cyprus.

So one final question to our ethnic Albanian friends here. How many recognitions should we expect after this ruling?

"Now if Greece recognises Kosovo where does that put Cyprus? Does that now mean we can legitimately accept the UDI from the Turkish part?

(Zoran, 24 July 2010 23:34) "

You're right, in order for Greece to recognize Kosovo it is going to have to have the consent of Cyprus. Hence the German Foreign Minister's trip - the first ever for such a high-level German official - to Cyprus. There's no one like a German to talk about reunification, after all. Also, Germany's support for Turkey's EU bid is absolutely crucial, meaning Germany may be able to get some help from Turkey in forcing concessions from northern Cyprus in talks with the government. Since the ICJ opinion even specifies that it does not apply to situations like Cyprus, the government may feel it really has nothing to lose by recognizing Kosovo. And if Cyprus is willing to recognize, there's no reason for Greece not to, as well. (Greek politicians can make speeches about how, as the inventor of democracy, they are now pleased to welcome the world's newest democracy to the world of nations ... you get the idea.)

Now, Saakashvili has already said that the ICJ's opinion doesn't have anything to do with AB and SO. This opens up the possibility of getting Cyprus and Georgia to recognize Kosovo on the same day, thereby reassuring all those panicky governments out there thinking that the world as they know it is ending. (It would, of course, make it more difficult for journalists to write easy scare stories on exactly this topic, but you can't keep everybody happy all the time.)

@Kosova-USA

Every time I see you post something its ridiculous. The only time 'Kosova' was every a country was during WW2. Kosovo has always been the cradle of Serbian culture and history with Prizren being the capital. Stop the nonsense.

"So one final question to our ethnic Albanian friends here. How many recognitions should we expect after this ruling?
(Zoran, 24 July 2010 23:34)"

Zoran,

Albanians will tell you to get a big boat because they are expecting another tsunami of recognitions in the coming weeks.

Greece, am an albanian orthodox brother and i represent 20 percent of albanian orthodox in albania. Please regognize Kosovo. IT should have been a country since 1912. Better late then never. You know our history as us and you , are the oldest countries in Balkan.
(uli, 24 July 2010 12:11)
=====================

You do realize that Kosovo Albanians are Muslim, unlike Albania where you do have some Christians.
So, you speaking up as an Orthodox brother does not hold any water. You have nothing in common with K-Albanians.

It is about time that Greece wakes up and realizes where it really stands as the birthplace of democracy and takes the lead to recognize new democracies. Europe has seen the contributions of Police States and Communism and that is one thing Serbia has not realized yet. All modern Serbs should ask them selves one question what has SERBIA gained since the early 90's or with the wars it has initiated?? Greece and the Greek people can not allow them selves to be dragged back to the dark ages of Communism and totalitarian governments such as serbia and so on. By recognizing Kosovo as an Independent country Greece only reaffirms its status as the birthplace of Democracy.

Peggy, In fact i do have more things in common with Kosovo Albanians then with Serbs. We are one nation, and religion does not matter much. I dont care if Kosovo Albanians are muslym or chatholics. For me religion is not primarly. It is the brotherhood.

"So there we are."
(balcanico, 24 July 2010 12:18)

Exactly that! Good analysis! Both sides were not willing to find a compromise with their stands. Will it change? What could be this compromise but a partition along the Ibar river, along ethnic lines?

Luigi,

Italy better look to support its Fiat....

Almost as irrelevent as your comment that one!

I think there are a lot of cases that Kosovo should be a precedent for e.g. Catalonia, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Palestine etc. However Cyprus isn't one of them because before 1974 Greeks were the majority in Northern Cyprus, so its declaration of independence didn't represent the will of the people, unlike Kosovo's.

So, following your logic, a Serb has nothing in common with another Serb unless they are both Orthodox...
If a Serb is a ctaholic he/she is a Croat, if he/she is a moslim - becoms a "Bosnjak". The tragedy of Yougoslavia came form such misunderstandings and mix-ups

There never was a country Kosovo and there never will be. It is a creation of narcoterrorists and criminals. My Albanian Orthodox brother should know that and should never forget they too suffered under the Turkalbanians who took the religion of their conquerors and became worse than they. Greece will never recognose this illegitimate action.

If you're ready to support stability in the Balkans then prove it by recognising Kosovo as an independent state.

Is it only me or why Greece doesn't make an explicit statement on Kosovo? "Good-neighborly relations" can have many conclusions.
(Legal_State, 24 July 2010 14:19)

Here it is.

"The Greek position is well known, and preserving peace, stability and cooperation in the Balkans is our key priority,” the Greek foreign ministry stated.

Simply,nothing has changed after the ICJ ruling as far as Kosovo is concerned.

We won't be forced to recognise a province- pretending to be a state- which has been created out of narco-terrorism.

Uli, Kosovo was never a country. What are you talking about? Please, end this debate of your historic sovereignty, and provide a source which states that kosovo was ever a country. Let's be honest in our assertions.

If Greece recognize kosovo than ll have to recognize N.Cyrpus,Republika srpska and N.Mitrovica of course bec if K/A have the right for independece why cant have it also the others?So what is going to happen?Should we start recognizing whoever wants to be independent?But you Albanians are muppets of USA and you go wherever the wind blows....

If you're ready to support stability in the Balkans then prove it by recognising Kosovo as an independent state.
(Ian, UK, 24 July 2010 11:20)

Forget it!
We care about stability in the balcans. US politicians live far away they don't realy care about stability here.

Greece, am an albanian orthodox brother and i represent 20 percent of albanian orthodox in albania. Please regognize Kosovo. IT should have been a country since 1912. Better late then never. You know our history as us and you , are the oldest countries in Balkan.

Balcanico, in trying to sound intelligent, your comment is unclear in what point you are trying to make. Your attempted put-down of greece holds no water either. Most of the world is in financial hardship, including your beloved America. Kosovo Albanians can not hold a candle to Greece economically, so what gives you the right to criticize them? I am sure that if Greece had recoognized the separatist Albanians quest, and illegal UDI, you would be chirping a different tune.

Its funny how Albanians say Greece and Serbia should better treat their minorities when it is Albanians who flood both our countries. And that is how Albanians became a majority in Kosovo after the last 50 years, especially after the Kosovo Albanians sided with the Nazis.
Also, Greeks are not Albanians - especially we Arvanites who are descendants of the ancient Dorians who first settled Greece from many thousands of years. We had our own Greek identity since time immemorial. In 1821 we fought those who wished to keep us under Ottoman occupation, including thhe Turkoalbanians. Had it not been for the Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman empires (who wished to spur hatred and division in the Balkans - "divide and conquer") many modern "Albanians" would not have lost the Hellenic consciousness of their ancestors who knew they were part of one of the greates civilisations on the planet. Much like the modern Turkish state with a large part of its population coming from those who were forcibly converted.

Uli, Kosovo was never a country. What are you talking about? Please, end this debate of your historic sovereignty, and provide a source which states that kosovo was ever a country. Let's be honest in our assertions.
(winston, 24 July 2010 14:36)

You are winston that Kosova was not a country, but Kosova and Alabani were one country called Albania. Fatal mistake was done in Malta(Stalin,Churchil and Rosevelt) when axis powers decided to split Albania in less than half.

"So there we are."
(balcanico, 24 July 2010 12:18)

Exactly that! Good analysis! Both sides were not willing to find a compromise with their stands. Will it change? What could be this compromise but a partition along the Ibar river, along ethnic lines?

Greece, am an albanian orthodox brother and i represent 20 percent of albanian orthodox in albania. Please regognize Kosovo. IT should have been a country since 1912. Better late then never. You know our history as us and you , are the oldest countries in Balkan.
(uli, 24 July 2010 12:11)
=====================

You do realize that Kosovo Albanians are Muslim, unlike Albania where you do have some Christians.
So, you speaking up as an Orthodox brother does not hold any water. You have nothing in common with K-Albanians.

"Balcanico, in trying to sound intelligent, your comment is unclear in what point you are trying to make. Your attempted put-down of greece holds no water either. Most of the world is in financial hardship, including your beloved America. Kosovo Albanians can not hold a candle to Greece economically, so what gives you the right to criticize them? I am sure that if Greece had recoognized the separatist Albanians quest, and illegal UDI, you would be chirping a different tune.
inNYC"

I think was Balcanico was trying to say is that Greece is not a role model.
Greece cooked the books and duped investors...not exactly ethical.

If it was a corporation it would be facing legal action (think Enron).

For those of you claiming that Kosovo was never a state...it wasn't a state because it was part of Albania!

Watch oit for Greece. They are the only country out of the five EU countries that havent recognized Kosovo that have not come out and reitirate their previous position with regards to Kosovo.

I think Greece recognition is imminent!

@Kosova-USA

Every time I see you post something its ridiculous. The only time 'Kosova' was every a country was during WW2. Kosovo has always been the cradle of Serbian culture and history with Prizren being the capital. Stop the nonsense.

Athens is stuck in the 90s, when it thought it was a 'global player' and a beacon of hope in a crappy neighborhood. While I am not certain as to why its foreign policy is what it is, not recognizing facts in the ground it does not serve its interests. But then again, they didnt recognize their own debts until last year, so to expect recognition of Kosovo is indeed too much to hope from these hesychasts.

Its very easy for Greece, Russia, Cyprus and Spain and others to proclaim that 'oh, we are strongly favoring an agreement based on dialogue, and only that'. First, these countries are not exactly prime examples of countries being able to resolve their own protracted problems through dialogue. Secondly, what did these countries ever contribute to in terms of being an host broker for other countries' conflicts, let alone the Serbia-Kosovo one? And with all due respect for my many dear Greek friends, and I do have many, after having wasted billions and billions of Northern European tax money on your corrupt administration and lack of work ethic, while blocking a neighboring country's aspirations for European integration over an issue as mickey mouse as the name, this is not the best of times for Athens to preach standards and principles.

Furthermore, the negotiations under Ahtisaari proved what everybody already knew: identifying a political compromise for the Kosovo status is like finding a compromise medical status of being half-way pregnant. Either you are or you aint!

During those negotiations it was clear that for Belgrade, keeping nominal sovereignty over Kosovo was more important than the status and rights of the Serbs in Kosovo, fully aware that they would not be able (or willing) to have any kind of real governance over Kosovo other than in name. Likewise, Pristina was willing to sacrifice unprecedented autonomy and levels of rights to non-Albanian citizens in Kosovo, to the extent that they would make it virtually impossible to foresee a functioning future Kosovo state.

So there we are.

We won't be forced to recognise a province- pretending to be a state- which has been created out of narco-terrorism.
(Leonidas, 24 July 2010 15:33)

Nothing is clear, especially in that statement. So be careful what you say. You Fakelakis still own quite much for your robbery. It smells like soon you have chance to repay parts of your debt.

Athens better looks to support her budget..

. Kosovo Albanians can not hold a candle to Greece economically, so what gives you the right to criticize them? (inNYC

Seriously, how can you even compare Albanians to Greeks, when more than half of your nation has been checked off on the 'Descendants of Albanians' in that genetic marker. Also, about that work ethic, it was a majority of Albanians who built your Olympic stadium and prepared your nation for all visitors. If the Greeks depended on purely ethnic Greeks to build their structures, the Olympics would have been postponed and probably switched to Prague for their events. Greece needs to show more respect for half of their Arvaniti/Albanian ethnic population. They're the ones holding the foundation of your nation together.

Leonidas, actually I interpret it like Greece are put under tremendous pressure to recognize Kosovo. Because of the economic crisis Greece may have to cave in to blackmail from U.S. and EU and that's why the statement is ambiguous. Those western powers are behaving more and more like mafia for every day. No wonder they like the temporary institutions in Pristina...

I pray for Greece that you will be able to withstand the pressure you are put under and not recognize Kosovo.

"We won't be forced to recognise a province- pretending to be a state- which has been created out of narco-terrorism."

We? memo to you: Greece is not an independent state so no one will be asking you. IMF, Germany and France that are keeping your corrupt 'state' alive with loans decide.

Chameria is next! The land from Albania down to Arta is owned by Cham families, for generations before Greece was even formed. You never lose those land rights, and within a decade you will see them back in their ancestral lands.

P.S. The Turks in Janina and Crete are also looking at the Ottoman defters to make claims.

How interesting. An ambiguous statement on being "ready to support stability in the Balkans". On one level we get "the Greek position is well known", but on another we get "we're in consulation with our EU partners". And not a definitive statement of whether Greece would stick to its policy of not recognizing Kosovo. The other 4 made clear statements saying they won't.

Luigi,

Italy better look to support its Fiat....

Almost as irrelevent as your comment that one!

uvdozAlbanianIllyrsThesprotians

yes yes truth is revealed once again. albanians the oldest nation on earth we are all albanians!
uvdozAlbanianIllyrsThesprotians thank you for helping us find our roots again. seems smoking that illegal weed that albanians are famous for smuggling all over europe can damage your brain afterall. really the most ridiculous comment i have even seen here!!!

"Now if Greece recognises Kosovo where does that put Cyprus? Does that now mean we can legitimately accept the UDI from the Turkish part?

(Zoran, 24 July 2010 23:34) "

You're right, in order for Greece to recognize Kosovo it is going to have to have the consent of Cyprus. Hence the German Foreign Minister's trip - the first ever for such a high-level German official - to Cyprus. There's no one like a German to talk about reunification, after all. Also, Germany's support for Turkey's EU bid is absolutely crucial, meaning Germany may be able to get some help from Turkey in forcing concessions from northern Cyprus in talks with the government. Since the ICJ opinion even specifies that it does not apply to situations like Cyprus, the government may feel it really has nothing to lose by recognizing Kosovo. And if Cyprus is willing to recognize, there's no reason for Greece not to, as well. (Greek politicians can make speeches about how, as the inventor of democracy, they are now pleased to welcome the world's newest democracy to the world of nations ... you get the idea.)

Now, Saakashvili has already said that the ICJ's opinion doesn't have anything to do with AB and SO. This opens up the possibility of getting Cyprus and Georgia to recognize Kosovo on the same day, thereby reassuring all those panicky governments out there thinking that the world as they know it is ending. (It would, of course, make it more difficult for journalists to write easy scare stories on exactly this topic, but you can't keep everybody happy all the time.)

Well, agree 100% with Mike here. Just adding that this diplomatic wording points to the fact that Greece will be the next EU-country to recognize. As Mr. Papoulias stated one year ago, Greece sticks to the intl law in its stance on Kosovo. This is the well-known stance of Greece regarding Kosovo. They can act now (and make happy the rest of EU minus 4)

How interesting. An ambiguous statement on being "ready to support stability in the Balkans". On one level we get "the Greek position is well known", but on another we get "we're in consulation with our EU partners". And not a definitive statement of whether Greece would stick to its policy of not recognizing Kosovo. The other 4 made clear statements saying they won't.
(Mike, 24 July 2010 15:52

The Greek statement is not ambiguous at all.Greece and Cyprus operate in tandem as far as all foreign policy issues are concerned.
Greece has never said in the past that their position will
be determined by the ICJ ruling.

The meaning of the Greek statement can be read as for both Albanians and Serbs to get over the present impasse there must be negotiations.

Well, I'm glad the circus is over. It was a quick show with lots of fun but very little substance.

Now if Greece recognises Kosovo where does that put Cyprus? Does that now mean we can legitimately accept the UDI from the Turkish part? Germany is attempting to say the ruling only applies to Kosovo but I think most people will disagree. If Greece does recognise Kosovo then it will put itself at odds not only with Serbia but also Cyprus.

So one final question to our ethnic Albanian friends here. How many recognitions should we expect after this ruling?

"Uli, Kosovo was never a country. "

To which I say, so what? The States along the American seaboard were not a country (much less "united") until the after the Revolution and our Declaration of Independence. In fact, it was the experience of war and revolution that made us a nation. In Judge Judge Cançado Trindade's separate opinion on the ICJ decision he suggests that a "people" can be defined by shared suffering in addition to shared language, history, etc. He said nothing about having previously been a state being a requirement for becoming a state.

inNYC

If my arguments were unclear to you, perhaps you should refrain from commenting upon them?

My point should have been pretty clear:

- Athens is not particularly well-placed for the time being to preach others about the virtue of sticking to principles and good governance

- ICJ came to the conclusion it did simply because there is no international law forbidding declarations of independence, just like there is no international law as such prohibiting anybody proclaiming that the moon is made of cheese

- it has been clear for all who can read that the status of Kosovo is a political matter,

and;

-Belgrade and Pristina are, on their own or with the use of a mediator, as likely to agree on a compromise solution on the status as a woman could hope to become 'just a little bit pregnant'

balcanico

I think unfortunately this will mean recognition because they're using the language of all the other countries that have recognised. I thought if one of the five would crack it would be Greece, because they're government always do and have clearly wanted to recognise Kosovo the whole time. It's always the same. They could have saved Cyprus but didn't because the Americans told them not to, same with Imia, and now the Americans are telling them what to do with Kosovo. Still hopefully they will have to prepare for riots on the streets of every city this time, because you will probably even find more Serbs who support Kosovo's independence than Greeks.

"So one final question to our ethnic Albanian friends here. How many recognitions should we expect after this ruling?
(Zoran, 24 July 2010 23:34)"

Zoran,

Albanians will tell you to get a big boat because they are expecting another tsunami of recognitions in the coming weeks.

"Simply,nothing has changed after the ICJ ruling as far as Kosovo is concerned. "

But Jeremic promised everybody - over and over that this decision would be a game-changer! Serbia would send a "tim snova" that would vindicate Serbia's claims before the world ... and so on.

In legal terms maybe not much has changed - although more people now realize that under all but certain specified conditions an 'udi' is not in itself illegal - but in practical terms, all those countries that didn't want to recognize Kosovo until they were reassured about the legal status of the declaration - for example, Greece, at least since the new government was installed - well, they can consider themselves reassured.

And as for becoming a legal state, as Crawford said in his statement in December before the court, there is a procedure for legalizing a state - it's called "recognition."

Is it only me or why Greece doesn't make an explicit statement on Kosovo? "Good-neighborly relations" can have many conclusions.

It is about time that Greece wakes up and realizes where it really stands as the birthplace of democracy and takes the lead to recognize new democracies. Europe has seen the contributions of Police States and Communism and that is one thing Serbia has not realized yet. All modern Serbs should ask them selves one question what has SERBIA gained since the early 90's or with the wars it has initiated?? Greece and the Greek people can not allow them selves to be dragged back to the dark ages of Communism and totalitarian governments such as serbia and so on. By recognizing Kosovo as an Independent country Greece only reaffirms its status as the birthplace of Democracy.

I think there are a lot of cases that Kosovo should be a precedent for e.g. Catalonia, Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Palestine etc. However Cyprus isn't one of them because before 1974 Greeks were the majority in Northern Cyprus, so its declaration of independence didn't represent the will of the people, unlike Kosovo's.

You do realize that Kosovo Albanians are Muslim, unlike Albania where you do have some Christians.
So, you speaking up as an Orthodox brother does not hold any water. You have nothing in common with K-Albanians.
(Peggy, 25 July 2010 02:50)

So, following your logic, a Serb has nothing in common with another Serb unless they are both Orthodox?

Peggy, In fact i do have more things in common with Kosovo Albanians then with Serbs. We are one nation, and religion does not matter much. I dont care if Kosovo Albanians are muslym or chatholics. For me religion is not primarly. It is the brotherhood.

So, following your logic, a Serb has nothing in common with another Serb unless they are both Orthodox...
If a Serb is a ctaholic he/she is a Croat, if he/she is a moslim - becoms a "Bosnjak". The tragedy of Yougoslavia came form such misunderstandings and mix-ups