For people who don't care, they certainly spend a lot of time posting on serbian websites like b92. Or is it only the 10k+ albanians in Belgrade who post on b92?
Still, why hold your political bosses to account over jobs, debt, education, health, corruption, judicial independence when it is so much easier to post messages on a site that you don't care about? Duh!
(Aleks, 23 July 2010)
I only post to show the other side of the story to non-serbs readers of the site or to some Serbs who are willing to listen. I also enjoy having a debate with people who hold opposing views from mine.
I also come to B92 as I find it somewhat balanced and fair, as balanced and fair as a Serb site could possible be towards Albanians, and you'll never find me on anotehr Serb site.
I also do not harbor any ill will towards the Serb people and do indeed wish we'd get along as we are neighbors who I beleive share similar values and traditions.
Make no mistake though: No Albanian really cares what the Belgrade political class does or thinks. We are paving our own path. If Belgrade wants to cooperate then it's more than welcome to do so. However they seem hellbent on sabotaging every single move we make. It is simply not working. I feel bad for them honestly.
Independence for Republika Srpska...already on the agenda.
All this did was give an excuse for Serbia and RS to hold a referendum on their separation from Bosnia based on the rest of the world and the ICJ. They couldn't support this move while fighting against the law, but now that the law has been stated the green light is on.
Multi-ethnic Yugoslavia didn't work, multi-ethnic Kosovo doesn't and won't work, and multi-ethnic Bosnia is not working.
North Kosovo to Serbia, RS to Serbia.
The west continues to divide and conquer these smaller nations. Enough is enough and time to unite and stand up together.
(RS, 22 July 2010 21:04)
ICJ gave Kosovo the green light!
As for RS you should spend more time and money and listen to another opinion! Good Luck!
'I pray that Tadic and Vuk are just trying to save face right........'
Eh my boy. And I pray I go fishing under Fruska gora on weekend but I'll go do my dirty work :) So where I am it's crystal clear but I wonder which part of No Choice you people wont understand. Tadic and Vuk have no choice.
Can't someone in Serbia shut Jeremic up? He is an Albanian troll whose sole purpose is to discredit Serbia.
(miri, 22 July 2010 22:49)
Actually he is the grandson of a Bosnian Muslim. But he is just keeping up with the plan. He wanted that prime minister spot so badly but the party didn't agree the first time. He will give it another try,You know "he fought hard for Kosovo" so he deserves it. Wait for his next "diplomatic victory" in september.
No it's called vindication. We stopped caring about Serbia around 1999.
(Zoti, 22 July 2010 19:23)
For people who don't care, they certainly spend a lot of time posting on serbian websites like b92. Or is it only the 10k+ albanians in Belgrade who post on b92?
Still, why hold your political bosses to account over jobs, debt, education, health, corruption, judicial independence when it is so much easier to post messages on a site that you don't care about? Duh!
Can't someone in Serbia shut Jeremic up? He is an Albanian troll whose sole purpose is to discredit Serbia.
(miri, 22 July 2010 22:49)
Maybe when albanians stop trolling on serbian websites... It is almost as if they honestly think that they are going to change anybodies mind! Isn't the free and fair media in Pristina and Tirana fun enough? Still, it is good to see so many albanian commenters recognizing Serbia's pre-eminence and importance as a significant player in the balkans. Where would they be without it?* ;)
*bathing in asses milk and drinking through golden straws is not an answer.
Can't someone in Serbia shut Jeremic up? He is an Albanian troll whose sole purpose is to discredit Serbia.
(miri, 22 July 2010 22:49)
====================
it is no news when a baby loses to a man,but on the other hand its a big deal when a man loses to a baby,serbia no mater how long it takes you will surly give up on kosovo some day it might be in 10 or 500 years from now.i have always been saying this for some time now all the balkans need is to love one another.serbia will have no voice in the region in no distance time if their policies dont change towards other nations around them.KOSOVO you still have a lot to acommplish for get about who won or lost.use the money you have to build industries and not houses with no one to live in them.serbia be wise,kosovo open your eyes .
Oh what a tangled web we weave - so now the ICJ rules that there is nothing within "general international law" that prohibits declarations of independence.....
- so who next can be stopped from declaring ? Pandora's box is fully open at the behest of the US no less!!!
Certainly there is no need for Serbian areas across all of Serbia's UN recognised province of Kosovo & Metohija to do any declarations of the sort - it remains within Serbia as does the whole of the province. What should be done and continues to be done is further deepening of legitimate Serbian institutions across the whole of its UN recognised province - all of it in time!
What is clear is what the ICJ choose to ignore - any mention of any country that recognises this false state of Kosova is clearly in breach of International law - as it does indeed violate that mutual respect for sovereign UN states.
Serbia needs to now act on the illegal action of those who act against its territorial integrity - none better than directly against US itself!
Note the US itself gave this in its argument at the ICJ;
"United States invites the International Court of Justice to leave the declaration of independence intact as an expression of the will of the people of Kosovo, either by refusing to comment on its legality, or by determining that the international law does not prohibit declarations of independence. The declaration of independence did not violate any principle of territorial integrity because under international law, only states must comply with this principle, and not internal entities."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Court_of_Justice_advisory_opinion_on_Kosovo's_declaration_of_independence
- only states and goes to for the US must uphold this - they themselves indicated to Serbia what it must do.
Tadic must now put this forth within the UN and persue the US directly for they are not "friends of Serbia" while they undermine Serbia's sovereignity.
This is all very straight-forward: Serbia chose both to take the case to the ICJ and the question they wanted determined. The ICJ gave Serbia their day in court and ruled the UDI legal. Done. And it was a clear majority. What is it about NO that people cannot understand? Seriously.
Not only is it in Serbia's best interest to move along, what in the world would Serbia do with Kosovo at this point? Kosovars will truly die first. Can ANYONE want more war?
Please, show some maturity and move into the future. Stop isolating yourselves from the rest of Europe. Someone else on this blog said: a good neighbor is better than a faraway friend. Montenegro, Croatia, Macedonia, and Slovenia are more than friends. For some Serbs, it is your relatives.
I pray that Tadic and Vuk are just trying to save face right now. I hope no more time is wasted. If they keep up the rhetoric, there is the possibility of Serbia being set back another 2 years, maybe even more. The majority of Serbs do not want that. And for anyone who believes in democracy, you don't always win. You get a say (a vote, a day in court), but not always your way.
They know Kosovo won't negotiate or compromise, all Serbia is trying to do is delay recognitions further. Serbia will fail miserably at the UN GA just like they did at the ICJ. Serbia's candle has almost come to an end regarding Kosovo.
Independence for Republika Srpska...already on the agenda.
All this did was give an excuse for Serbia and RS to hold a referendum on their separation from Bosnia based on the rest of the world and the ICJ. They couldn't support this move while fighting against the law, but now that the law has been stated the green light is on.
Multi-ethnic Yugoslavia didn't work, multi-ethnic Kosovo doesn't and won't work, and multi-ethnic Bosnia is not working.
North Kosovo to Serbia, RS to Serbia.
The west continues to divide and conquer these smaller nations. Enough is enough and time to unite and stand up together.
Hey, people, don't feel sorry for Jeremic. He'll survive the cut and thrust of Serbian politics. One day he'll be the president. This decision was a minor setback in his grand plan of political domination.
Now, let take stock of what happened today. Serbia's arguments on Kosovo's UDI rested on two pillars; first that independence violated international law and secondly that it also violated UN resolution 1244. Both these arguments have been found wanting and rejected. In fact, the ICJ was very clear in their opinion that Kosovo's intependence did not violate any international law or resolution 1244. What happens now? Belgrade's hand has been severely handicapped so it does not have much of a say. What matters is what the EU says on 26 July when they express their opinion on the ICJ decision. The five EU member states which do not recognise Kosovo have now lost their moral and legal high ground. As many observers said ahead of the ruling, the decision may be non-binding but it will have a very powerful political impact. Time is on Kosovo's side.
(Mospyt, 22 July 2010 19:37)
Guys being Serb is not for the faint of hearted :) Remember all who tried to destroy us Turks, Austrians, Nazis, Ustase? You should remember. Anyone who can't last all rounds, leave the camp now people let the rest of us fight the good fight.
Anyway, court said you can declare what you like but it doesn't know if it makes you into state and it doesn't know if someone should recognize you. That's the best Yanks waterboarded out of judges. Good. We Serbs soldier on and I gotta say it feels good to be David in this battle :) It suits our nature. Also it helps there's no choice. I hope big evil countries understand loud and clear. We have no choice. If they push us to bitter end thats where we all end up.
So Serbia is democratic and peaceful so that's how we fight. That said our red line is Ibar and any unwanted nose across it will get smacked. Faleminderit.
The question should be whether it was a violation of international law to recognize Kosovo's declaration of independence from Serbia in spite of Serbia's objections.
It's still open to Serbia to ask that question -- even though it's the question it should have asked in the first place.
(Alex, 22 July 2010 18:19)
Alex,
Do you really believe that the ICJ and the UN have nothing better to do than entertain the whims of Serbia.
All of this costs time and money, a lot of which has been wasted by Serbia. The USA pays for 90% of the UN budget. We simply refuse to go along with Serbia's idiotic ideas any longer. If Serbia is incapable of asking the correct question, who's fault is it. This is like loosing a gambling bet, then asking for your money back. It time for Serbia to finally behave in an adult manner.
Hey, people, don't feel sorry for Jeremic. He'll survive the cut and thrust of Serbian politics. One day he'll be the president. This decision was a minor setback in his grand plan of political domination.
Now, let take stock of what happened today. Serbia's arguments on Kosovo's UDI rested on two pillars; first that independence violated international law and secondly that it also violated UN resolution 1244. Both these arguments have been found wanting and rejected. In fact, the ICJ was very clear in their opinion that Kosovo's intependence did not violate any international law or resolution 1244. What happens now? Belgrade's hand has been severely handicapped so it does not have much of a say. What matters is what the EU says on 26 July when they express their opinion on the ICJ decision. The five EU member states which do not recognise Kosovo have now lost their moral and legal high ground. As many observers said ahead of the ruling, the decision may be non-binding but it will have a very powerful political impact. Time is on Kosovo's side.
With other words, Jeremič wants to continue to hold a whole nation in a single topic which is not only lost a long time ago but since today officially clarified. I could imagine that before thisnpossible but now?
"and in effect avoided making a stance on the essential issue of whether or not they had the right to attempt a secession from Serbia".
Is he kidding? The ICJ answered the question that was posed to it.
If he wanted a response to the above, Serbia should have asked the court to decide on "whether or not they [Pristina] had the right to attempt a secession from Serbia."
Moron. Tell me who is buying the garbage this guy is selling.
It's all going according to plan, and this stooge is just playing his role.
So it is time for the bit north of the Ibar to declare independence too.
Let's get a few guys together and just do it.
After all, it is legal!!!!
(Bob, 22 July 2010)
You still don't get it do you?
The North of Ibar has zero chance of recognztions from anyone. Kosova declared independence in 1990 and Albania was the only country to recognize it. It didn't matter and no one cared.
You're going to play tit for tat with the EU and the U.S.? Go ahead then.
So it is time for the bit north of the Ibar to declare independence too.
Let's get a few guys together and just do it.
After all, it is legal!!!!
(Bob, 22 July 2010 18:03)
Only one problem--in order to declare independence it would have to acknowledge that it is first a part of the country of Kosovo and Belgrade would disown them should they do that.
You could 'continue the fight' or you could, I don't know, maybe resign?
This is pure masochism - your own Foreign Minister is dead set on humiliating your country as much as possible.
This is painful to watch, and I am from Kosovo.
Serbian people, Mr. Jeremic has finally admitted that he is so deaf thus has no credibility to manipulate with your nerves and money anymore. So I suggest you to collect yourselves and start living as civilized people, getting rid of such kind of politicians, who instead of signing economic arrangements, opposes entire World for nothing but abhorrence.
The ICJ today decided to declare itself only in the technical sense when it comes to the Kosovo Albanian proclamation, according to Jeremić, "and in effect avoided making a stance on the essential issue of whether or not they had the right to attempt a secession from Serbia".
The esential issue? Does Jeremic remebers what question he asked the court? Smoke screen for the serbian public. The scenario of fighting a tough battle for Kosovo against the west will be completed in September when you will declare that Serbia tried everything but was fighting against powerful forces.Although you could have done much better not asking the court of those who made Kosovo independent, of what they think about the independence. If the serbian oposition cannot see what Tadic & Jeremic have been cooking for a long time,than they might be blind.
The court says there is "no active provision that limits independence declarations, Kosovo's declaration is not in breach of international law."
What about recognitions of that declaration? Are those in breach of international law?
Obviously declaring something isn't illegal. Anyone can declare anything. I can unilaterally declare myself to be the President of the United States. There's no crime in that.
But would it be a violation of international law for other countries to recognize my unilateral declaration that I was the President of the United States in spite of the protests of the U.S. Government?
It seems to me that the wrong question was asked. Is declaring something illegal? Of course it's not. How can it be illegal just to say something? People can declare anything anytime they like. The question is whether the reaction of others entities to that declaration is legal or not.
The question should be whether it was a violation of international law to recognize Kosovo's declaration of independence from Serbia in spite of Serbia's objections.
It's still open to Serbia to ask that question -- even though it's the question it should have asked in the first place.
So it is time for the bit north of the Ibar to declare independence too.
Let's get a few guys together and just do it.
After all, it is legal!!!!
(Bob, 22 July 2010 18:03)
Sure do it. There is nothing wrong with it. There has been nothing wrong with it to start with. That has never been the case. Anyone can declare anything their heart wishes. Thats what we've been telling you guys for ages. However your moron politicians guided by Jeremic went and asked the wrong question. That's what we've been saying in this site since the day they asked. A suicidal move; that ends up doing more lobbying for our case than we could have done ourselves. Thank you Jeremic. Hopefully you'll remain in that position for at least another 10 years.
The court's opinion, the minister added, will soon be sent back to the UN General Assembly, which will reach political conclusions related to this issue.
and, what that political conclusion will be Mr. Jeremic?
we all know th end results.
If Vuk was the CEO of a big firm and if the firm is loosing 1 mil, he (Vuk) is willing to lose another 10 mil just to try and full the board. cut your loses and run man.
Mr Jeremic, its time you take the only necessary and wise step towards relising good relations with Kosovo and recognise its Independence! If only, for the sake of serbs living there!
Anything else is futile. You lost, admit that and move on. PEACE AND JUSTICE WON.
It is a little ironic that this news piece is side by side with Jeremic's comments he made yesterday under the title "FM: ICJ will not support secession".
The ruling solved nothing today. Everyone has the right to declare independence under international law. However, no one has the right to seceed or separate from a sovergn nation like Serbia. Kosovo will remain a part of Serbia for ever. Sorry to anyone who thinks otherwise.
Mr Jeremic, its time you take the only necessary and wise step towards relising good relations with Kosovo and recognise its Independence! If only, for the sake of serbs living there!
Anything else is futile. You lost, admit that and move on. PEACE AND JUSTICE WON.
It is a little ironic that this news piece is side by side with Jeremic's comments he made yesterday under the title "FM: ICJ will not support secession".
You could 'continue the fight' or you could, I don't know, maybe resign?
This is pure masochism - your own Foreign Minister is dead set on humiliating your country as much as possible.
This is painful to watch, and I am from Kosovo.
With other words, Jeremič wants to continue to hold a whole nation in a single topic which is not only lost a long time ago but since today officially clarified. I could imagine that before thisnpossible but now?
"and in effect avoided making a stance on the essential issue of whether or not they had the right to attempt a secession from Serbia".
Is he kidding? The ICJ answered the question that was posed to it.
If he wanted a response to the above, Serbia should have asked the court to decide on "whether or not they [Pristina] had the right to attempt a secession from Serbia."
Moron. Tell me who is buying the garbage this guy is selling.
It's all going according to plan, and this stooge is just playing his role.
The question should be whether it was a violation of international law to recognize Kosovo's declaration of independence from Serbia in spite of Serbia's objections.
It's still open to Serbia to ask that question -- even though it's the question it should have asked in the first place.
(Alex, 22 July 2010 18:19)
Alex,
Do you really believe that the ICJ and the UN have nothing better to do than entertain the whims of Serbia.
All of this costs time and money, a lot of which has been wasted by Serbia. The USA pays for 90% of the UN budget. We simply refuse to go along with Serbia's idiotic ideas any longer. If Serbia is incapable of asking the correct question, who's fault is it. This is like loosing a gambling bet, then asking for your money back. It time for Serbia to finally behave in an adult manner.
They know Kosovo won't negotiate or compromise, all Serbia is trying to do is delay recognitions further. Serbia will fail miserably at the UN GA just like they did at the ICJ. Serbia's candle has almost come to an end regarding Kosovo.
Serbian people, Mr. Jeremic has finally admitted that he is so deaf thus has no credibility to manipulate with your nerves and money anymore. So I suggest you to collect yourselves and start living as civilized people, getting rid of such kind of politicians, who instead of signing economic arrangements, opposes entire World for nothing but abhorrence.
So it is time for the bit north of the Ibar to declare independence too.
Let's get a few guys together and just do it.
After all, it is legal!!!!
(Bob, 22 July 2010 18:03)
Sure do it. There is nothing wrong with it. There has been nothing wrong with it to start with. That has never been the case. Anyone can declare anything their heart wishes. Thats what we've been telling you guys for ages. However your moron politicians guided by Jeremic went and asked the wrong question. That's what we've been saying in this site since the day they asked. A suicidal move; that ends up doing more lobbying for our case than we could have done ourselves. Thank you Jeremic. Hopefully you'll remain in that position for at least another 10 years.
The court's opinion, the minister added, will soon be sent back to the UN General Assembly, which will reach political conclusions related to this issue.
and, what that political conclusion will be Mr. Jeremic?
we all know th end results.
If Vuk was the CEO of a big firm and if the firm is loosing 1 mil, he (Vuk) is willing to lose another 10 mil just to try and full the board. cut your loses and run man.
So it is time for the bit north of the Ibar to declare independence too.
Let's get a few guys together and just do it.
After all, it is legal!!!!
(Bob, 22 July 2010 18:03)
Only one problem--in order to declare independence it would have to acknowledge that it is first a part of the country of Kosovo and Belgrade would disown them should they do that.
So it is time for the bit north of the Ibar to declare independence too.
Let's get a few guys together and just do it.
After all, it is legal!!!!
(Bob, 22 July 2010)
You still don't get it do you?
The North of Ibar has zero chance of recognztions from anyone. Kosova declared independence in 1990 and Albania was the only country to recognize it. It didn't matter and no one cared.
You're going to play tit for tat with the EU and the U.S.? Go ahead then.
Guys being Serb is not for the faint of hearted :) Remember all who tried to destroy us Turks, Austrians, Nazis, Ustase? You should remember. Anyone who can't last all rounds, leave the camp now people let the rest of us fight the good fight.
Anyway, court said you can declare what you like but it doesn't know if it makes you into state and it doesn't know if someone should recognize you. That's the best Yanks waterboarded out of judges. Good. We Serbs soldier on and I gotta say it feels good to be David in this battle :) It suits our nature. Also it helps there's no choice. I hope big evil countries understand loud and clear. We have no choice. If they push us to bitter end thats where we all end up.
So Serbia is democratic and peaceful so that's how we fight. That said our red line is Ibar and any unwanted nose across it will get smacked. Faleminderit.
Independence for Republika Srpska...already on the agenda.
All this did was give an excuse for Serbia and RS to hold a referendum on their separation from Bosnia based on the rest of the world and the ICJ. They couldn't support this move while fighting against the law, but now that the law has been stated the green light is on.
Multi-ethnic Yugoslavia didn't work, multi-ethnic Kosovo doesn't and won't work, and multi-ethnic Bosnia is not working.
North Kosovo to Serbia, RS to Serbia.
The west continues to divide and conquer these smaller nations. Enough is enough and time to unite and stand up together.
Hey, people, don't feel sorry for Jeremic. He'll survive the cut and thrust of Serbian politics. One day he'll be the president. This decision was a minor setback in his grand plan of political domination.
Now, let take stock of what happened today. Serbia's arguments on Kosovo's UDI rested on two pillars; first that independence violated international law and secondly that it also violated UN resolution 1244. Both these arguments have been found wanting and rejected. In fact, the ICJ was very clear in their opinion that Kosovo's intependence did not violate any international law or resolution 1244. What happens now? Belgrade's hand has been severely handicapped so it does not have much of a say. What matters is what the EU says on 26 July when they express their opinion on the ICJ decision. The five EU member states which do not recognise Kosovo have now lost their moral and legal high ground. As many observers said ahead of the ruling, the decision may be non-binding but it will have a very powerful political impact. Time is on Kosovo's side.
The ruling solved nothing today. Everyone has the right to declare independence under international law. However, no one has the right to seceed or separate from a sovergn nation like Serbia. Kosovo will remain a part of Serbia for ever. Sorry to anyone who thinks otherwise.
The ICJ today decided to declare itself only in the technical sense when it comes to the Kosovo Albanian proclamation, according to Jeremić, "and in effect avoided making a stance on the essential issue of whether or not they had the right to attempt a secession from Serbia".
The esential issue? Does Jeremic remebers what question he asked the court? Smoke screen for the serbian public. The scenario of fighting a tough battle for Kosovo against the west will be completed in September when you will declare that Serbia tried everything but was fighting against powerful forces.Although you could have done much better not asking the court of those who made Kosovo independent, of what they think about the independence. If the serbian oposition cannot see what Tadic & Jeremic have been cooking for a long time,than they might be blind.
This is all very straight-forward: Serbia chose both to take the case to the ICJ and the question they wanted determined. The ICJ gave Serbia their day in court and ruled the UDI legal. Done. And it was a clear majority. What is it about NO that people cannot understand? Seriously.
Not only is it in Serbia's best interest to move along, what in the world would Serbia do with Kosovo at this point? Kosovars will truly die first. Can ANYONE want more war?
Please, show some maturity and move into the future. Stop isolating yourselves from the rest of Europe. Someone else on this blog said: a good neighbor is better than a faraway friend. Montenegro, Croatia, Macedonia, and Slovenia are more than friends. For some Serbs, it is your relatives.
I pray that Tadic and Vuk are just trying to save face right now. I hope no more time is wasted. If they keep up the rhetoric, there is the possibility of Serbia being set back another 2 years, maybe even more. The majority of Serbs do not want that. And for anyone who believes in democracy, you don't always win. You get a say (a vote, a day in court), but not always your way.
Oh what a tangled web we weave - so now the ICJ rules that there is nothing within "general international law" that prohibits declarations of independence.....
- so who next can be stopped from declaring ? Pandora's box is fully open at the behest of the US no less!!!
Certainly there is no need for Serbian areas across all of Serbia's UN recognised province of Kosovo & Metohija to do any declarations of the sort - it remains within Serbia as does the whole of the province. What should be done and continues to be done is further deepening of legitimate Serbian institutions across the whole of its UN recognised province - all of it in time!
What is clear is what the ICJ choose to ignore - any mention of any country that recognises this false state of Kosova is clearly in breach of International law - as it does indeed violate that mutual respect for sovereign UN states.
Serbia needs to now act on the illegal action of those who act against its territorial integrity - none better than directly against US itself!
Note the US itself gave this in its argument at the ICJ;
"United States invites the International Court of Justice to leave the declaration of independence intact as an expression of the will of the people of Kosovo, either by refusing to comment on its legality, or by determining that the international law does not prohibit declarations of independence. The declaration of independence did not violate any principle of territorial integrity because under international law, only states must comply with this principle, and not internal entities."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Court_of_Justice_advisory_opinion_on_Kosovo's_declaration_of_independence
- only states and goes to for the US must uphold this - they themselves indicated to Serbia what it must do.
Tadic must now put this forth within the UN and persue the US directly for they are not "friends of Serbia" while they undermine Serbia's sovereignity.
Hey, people, don't feel sorry for Jeremic. He'll survive the cut and thrust of Serbian politics. One day he'll be the president. This decision was a minor setback in his grand plan of political domination.
Now, let take stock of what happened today. Serbia's arguments on Kosovo's UDI rested on two pillars; first that independence violated international law and secondly that it also violated UN resolution 1244. Both these arguments have been found wanting and rejected. In fact, the ICJ was very clear in their opinion that Kosovo's intependence did not violate any international law or resolution 1244. What happens now? Belgrade's hand has been severely handicapped so it does not have much of a say. What matters is what the EU says on 26 July when they express their opinion on the ICJ decision. The five EU member states which do not recognise Kosovo have now lost their moral and legal high ground. As many observers said ahead of the ruling, the decision may be non-binding but it will have a very powerful political impact. Time is on Kosovo's side.
(Mospyt, 22 July 2010 19:37)
The court says there is "no active provision that limits independence declarations, Kosovo's declaration is not in breach of international law."
What about recognitions of that declaration? Are those in breach of international law?
Obviously declaring something isn't illegal. Anyone can declare anything. I can unilaterally declare myself to be the President of the United States. There's no crime in that.
But would it be a violation of international law for other countries to recognize my unilateral declaration that I was the President of the United States in spite of the protests of the U.S. Government?
It seems to me that the wrong question was asked. Is declaring something illegal? Of course it's not. How can it be illegal just to say something? People can declare anything anytime they like. The question is whether the reaction of others entities to that declaration is legal or not.
The question should be whether it was a violation of international law to recognize Kosovo's declaration of independence from Serbia in spite of Serbia's objections.
It's still open to Serbia to ask that question -- even though it's the question it should have asked in the first place.
No it's called vindication. We stopped caring about Serbia around 1999.
(Zoti, 22 July 2010 19:23)
For people who don't care, they certainly spend a lot of time posting on serbian websites like b92. Or is it only the 10k+ albanians in Belgrade who post on b92?
Still, why hold your political bosses to account over jobs, debt, education, health, corruption, judicial independence when it is so much easier to post messages on a site that you don't care about? Duh!
Can't someone in Serbia shut Jeremic up? He is an Albanian troll whose sole purpose is to discredit Serbia.
(miri, 22 July 2010 22:49)
====================
Can't someone in Serbia shut Jeremic up? He is an Albanian troll whose sole purpose is to discredit Serbia.
(miri, 22 July 2010 22:49)
Maybe when albanians stop trolling on serbian websites... It is almost as if they honestly think that they are going to change anybodies mind! Isn't the free and fair media in Pristina and Tirana fun enough? Still, it is good to see so many albanian commenters recognizing Serbia's pre-eminence and importance as a significant player in the balkans. Where would they be without it?* ;)
*bathing in asses milk and drinking through golden straws is not an answer.
Can't someone in Serbia shut Jeremic up? He is an Albanian troll whose sole purpose is to discredit Serbia.
(miri, 22 July 2010 22:49)
Actually he is the grandson of a Bosnian Muslim. But he is just keeping up with the plan. He wanted that prime minister spot so badly but the party didn't agree the first time. He will give it another try,You know "he fought hard for Kosovo" so he deserves it. Wait for his next "diplomatic victory" in september.
For people who don't care, they certainly spend a lot of time posting on serbian websites like b92. Or is it only the 10k+ albanians in Belgrade who post on b92?
Still, why hold your political bosses to account over jobs, debt, education, health, corruption, judicial independence when it is so much easier to post messages on a site that you don't care about? Duh!
(Aleks, 23 July 2010)
I only post to show the other side of the story to non-serbs readers of the site or to some Serbs who are willing to listen. I also enjoy having a debate with people who hold opposing views from mine.
I also come to B92 as I find it somewhat balanced and fair, as balanced and fair as a Serb site could possible be towards Albanians, and you'll never find me on anotehr Serb site.
I also do not harbor any ill will towards the Serb people and do indeed wish we'd get along as we are neighbors who I beleive share similar values and traditions.
Make no mistake though: No Albanian really cares what the Belgrade political class does or thinks. We are paving our own path. If Belgrade wants to cooperate then it's more than welcome to do so. However they seem hellbent on sabotaging every single move we make. It is simply not working. I feel bad for them honestly.
'I pray that Tadic and Vuk are just trying to save face right........'
Eh my boy. And I pray I go fishing under Fruska gora on weekend but I'll go do my dirty work :) So where I am it's crystal clear but I wonder which part of No Choice you people wont understand. Tadic and Vuk have no choice.
Independence for Republika Srpska...already on the agenda.
All this did was give an excuse for Serbia and RS to hold a referendum on their separation from Bosnia based on the rest of the world and the ICJ. They couldn't support this move while fighting against the law, but now that the law has been stated the green light is on.
Multi-ethnic Yugoslavia didn't work, multi-ethnic Kosovo doesn't and won't work, and multi-ethnic Bosnia is not working.
North Kosovo to Serbia, RS to Serbia.
The west continues to divide and conquer these smaller nations. Enough is enough and time to unite and stand up together.
(RS, 22 July 2010 21:04)
ICJ gave Kosovo the green light!
As for RS you should spend more time and money and listen to another opinion! Good Luck!
it is no news when a baby loses to a man,but on the other hand its a big deal when a man loses to a baby,serbia no mater how long it takes you will surly give up on kosovo some day it might be in 10 or 500 years from now.i have always been saying this for some time now all the balkans need is to love one another.serbia will have no voice in the region in no distance time if their policies dont change towards other nations around them.KOSOVO you still have a lot to acommplish for get about who won or lost.use the money you have to build industries and not houses with no one to live in them.serbia be wise,kosovo open your eyes .
The ruling solved nothing today. Everyone has the right to declare independence under international law. However, no one has the right to seceed or separate from a sovergn nation like Serbia. Kosovo will remain a part of Serbia for ever. Sorry to anyone who thinks otherwise.
Mr Jeremic, its time you take the only necessary and wise step towards relising good relations with Kosovo and recognise its Independence! If only, for the sake of serbs living there!
Anything else is futile. You lost, admit that and move on. PEACE AND JUSTICE WON.
This is all very straight-forward: Serbia chose both to take the case to the ICJ and the question they wanted determined. The ICJ gave Serbia their day in court and ruled the UDI legal. Done. And it was a clear majority. What is it about NO that people cannot understand? Seriously.
Not only is it in Serbia's best interest to move along, what in the world would Serbia do with Kosovo at this point? Kosovars will truly die first. Can ANYONE want more war?
Please, show some maturity and move into the future. Stop isolating yourselves from the rest of Europe. Someone else on this blog said: a good neighbor is better than a faraway friend. Montenegro, Croatia, Macedonia, and Slovenia are more than friends. For some Serbs, it is your relatives.
I pray that Tadic and Vuk are just trying to save face right now. I hope no more time is wasted. If they keep up the rhetoric, there is the possibility of Serbia being set back another 2 years, maybe even more. The majority of Serbs do not want that. And for anyone who believes in democracy, you don't always win. You get a say (a vote, a day in court), but not always your way.
It is a little ironic that this news piece is side by side with Jeremic's comments he made yesterday under the title "FM: ICJ will not support secession".
Hey, people, don't feel sorry for Jeremic. He'll survive the cut and thrust of Serbian politics. One day he'll be the president. This decision was a minor setback in his grand plan of political domination.
Now, let take stock of what happened today. Serbia's arguments on Kosovo's UDI rested on two pillars; first that independence violated international law and secondly that it also violated UN resolution 1244. Both these arguments have been found wanting and rejected. In fact, the ICJ was very clear in their opinion that Kosovo's intependence did not violate any international law or resolution 1244. What happens now? Belgrade's hand has been severely handicapped so it does not have much of a say. What matters is what the EU says on 26 July when they express their opinion on the ICJ decision. The five EU member states which do not recognise Kosovo have now lost their moral and legal high ground. As many observers said ahead of the ruling, the decision may be non-binding but it will have a very powerful political impact. Time is on Kosovo's side.
Guys being Serb is not for the faint of hearted :) Remember all who tried to destroy us Turks, Austrians, Nazis, Ustase? You should remember. Anyone who can't last all rounds, leave the camp now people let the rest of us fight the good fight.
Anyway, court said you can declare what you like but it doesn't know if it makes you into state and it doesn't know if someone should recognize you. That's the best Yanks waterboarded out of judges. Good. We Serbs soldier on and I gotta say it feels good to be David in this battle :) It suits our nature. Also it helps there's no choice. I hope big evil countries understand loud and clear. We have no choice. If they push us to bitter end thats where we all end up.
So Serbia is democratic and peaceful so that's how we fight. That said our red line is Ibar and any unwanted nose across it will get smacked. Faleminderit.
So it is time for the bit north of the Ibar to declare independence too.
Let's get a few guys together and just do it.
After all, it is legal!!!!
(Bob, 22 July 2010)
You still don't get it do you?
The North of Ibar has zero chance of recognztions from anyone. Kosova declared independence in 1990 and Albania was the only country to recognize it. It didn't matter and no one cared.
You're going to play tit for tat with the EU and the U.S.? Go ahead then.
Independence for Republika Srpska...already on the agenda.
All this did was give an excuse for Serbia and RS to hold a referendum on their separation from Bosnia based on the rest of the world and the ICJ. They couldn't support this move while fighting against the law, but now that the law has been stated the green light is on.
Multi-ethnic Yugoslavia didn't work, multi-ethnic Kosovo doesn't and won't work, and multi-ethnic Bosnia is not working.
North Kosovo to Serbia, RS to Serbia.
The west continues to divide and conquer these smaller nations. Enough is enough and time to unite and stand up together.
The question should be whether it was a violation of international law to recognize Kosovo's declaration of independence from Serbia in spite of Serbia's objections.
It's still open to Serbia to ask that question -- even though it's the question it should have asked in the first place.
(Alex, 22 July 2010 18:19)
Alex,
Do you really believe that the ICJ and the UN have nothing better to do than entertain the whims of Serbia.
All of this costs time and money, a lot of which has been wasted by Serbia. The USA pays for 90% of the UN budget. We simply refuse to go along with Serbia's idiotic ideas any longer. If Serbia is incapable of asking the correct question, who's fault is it. This is like loosing a gambling bet, then asking for your money back. It time for Serbia to finally behave in an adult manner.
They know Kosovo won't negotiate or compromise, all Serbia is trying to do is delay recognitions further. Serbia will fail miserably at the UN GA just like they did at the ICJ. Serbia's candle has almost come to an end regarding Kosovo.
The court's opinion, the minister added, will soon be sent back to the UN General Assembly, which will reach political conclusions related to this issue.
and, what that political conclusion will be Mr. Jeremic?
we all know th end results.
If Vuk was the CEO of a big firm and if the firm is loosing 1 mil, he (Vuk) is willing to lose another 10 mil just to try and full the board. cut your loses and run man.
Serbian people, Mr. Jeremic has finally admitted that he is so deaf thus has no credibility to manipulate with your nerves and money anymore. So I suggest you to collect yourselves and start living as civilized people, getting rid of such kind of politicians, who instead of signing economic arrangements, opposes entire World for nothing but abhorrence.
The court says there is "no active provision that limits independence declarations, Kosovo's declaration is not in breach of international law."
What about recognitions of that declaration? Are those in breach of international law?
Obviously declaring something isn't illegal. Anyone can declare anything. I can unilaterally declare myself to be the President of the United States. There's no crime in that.
But would it be a violation of international law for other countries to recognize my unilateral declaration that I was the President of the United States in spite of the protests of the U.S. Government?
It seems to me that the wrong question was asked. Is declaring something illegal? Of course it's not. How can it be illegal just to say something? People can declare anything anytime they like. The question is whether the reaction of others entities to that declaration is legal or not.
The question should be whether it was a violation of international law to recognize Kosovo's declaration of independence from Serbia in spite of Serbia's objections.
It's still open to Serbia to ask that question -- even though it's the question it should have asked in the first place.
With other words, Jeremič wants to continue to hold a whole nation in a single topic which is not only lost a long time ago but since today officially clarified. I could imagine that before thisnpossible but now?
"and in effect avoided making a stance on the essential issue of whether or not they had the right to attempt a secession from Serbia".
Is he kidding? The ICJ answered the question that was posed to it.
If he wanted a response to the above, Serbia should have asked the court to decide on "whether or not they [Pristina] had the right to attempt a secession from Serbia."
Moron. Tell me who is buying the garbage this guy is selling.
It's all going according to plan, and this stooge is just playing his role.
Independence for Republika Srpska...already on the agenda.
All this did was give an excuse for Serbia and RS to hold a referendum on their separation from Bosnia based on the rest of the world and the ICJ. They couldn't support this move while fighting against the law, but now that the law has been stated the green light is on.
Multi-ethnic Yugoslavia didn't work, multi-ethnic Kosovo doesn't and won't work, and multi-ethnic Bosnia is not working.
North Kosovo to Serbia, RS to Serbia.
The west continues to divide and conquer these smaller nations. Enough is enough and time to unite and stand up together.
(RS, 22 July 2010 21:04)
ICJ gave Kosovo the green light!
As for RS you should spend more time and money and listen to another opinion! Good Luck!
Oh what a tangled web we weave - so now the ICJ rules that there is nothing within "general international law" that prohibits declarations of independence.....
- so who next can be stopped from declaring ? Pandora's box is fully open at the behest of the US no less!!!
Certainly there is no need for Serbian areas across all of Serbia's UN recognised province of Kosovo & Metohija to do any declarations of the sort - it remains within Serbia as does the whole of the province. What should be done and continues to be done is further deepening of legitimate Serbian institutions across the whole of its UN recognised province - all of it in time!
What is clear is what the ICJ choose to ignore - any mention of any country that recognises this false state of Kosova is clearly in breach of International law - as it does indeed violate that mutual respect for sovereign UN states.
Serbia needs to now act on the illegal action of those who act against its territorial integrity - none better than directly against US itself!
Note the US itself gave this in its argument at the ICJ;
"United States invites the International Court of Justice to leave the declaration of independence intact as an expression of the will of the people of Kosovo, either by refusing to comment on its legality, or by determining that the international law does not prohibit declarations of independence. The declaration of independence did not violate any principle of territorial integrity because under international law, only states must comply with this principle, and not internal entities."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Court_of_Justice_advisory_opinion_on_Kosovo's_declaration_of_independence
- only states and goes to for the US must uphold this - they themselves indicated to Serbia what it must do.
Tadic must now put this forth within the UN and persue the US directly for they are not "friends of Serbia" while they undermine Serbia's sovereignity.
So it is time for the bit north of the Ibar to declare independence too.
Let's get a few guys together and just do it.
After all, it is legal!!!!
(Bob, 22 July 2010 18:03)
Sure do it. There is nothing wrong with it. There has been nothing wrong with it to start with. That has never been the case. Anyone can declare anything their heart wishes. Thats what we've been telling you guys for ages. However your moron politicians guided by Jeremic went and asked the wrong question. That's what we've been saying in this site since the day they asked. A suicidal move; that ends up doing more lobbying for our case than we could have done ourselves. Thank you Jeremic. Hopefully you'll remain in that position for at least another 10 years.
The ICJ today decided to declare itself only in the technical sense when it comes to the Kosovo Albanian proclamation, according to Jeremić, "and in effect avoided making a stance on the essential issue of whether or not they had the right to attempt a secession from Serbia".
The esential issue? Does Jeremic remebers what question he asked the court? Smoke screen for the serbian public. The scenario of fighting a tough battle for Kosovo against the west will be completed in September when you will declare that Serbia tried everything but was fighting against powerful forces.Although you could have done much better not asking the court of those who made Kosovo independent, of what they think about the independence. If the serbian oposition cannot see what Tadic & Jeremic have been cooking for a long time,than they might be blind.
You could 'continue the fight' or you could, I don't know, maybe resign?
This is pure masochism - your own Foreign Minister is dead set on humiliating your country as much as possible.
This is painful to watch, and I am from Kosovo.
So it is time for the bit north of the Ibar to declare independence too.
Let's get a few guys together and just do it.
After all, it is legal!!!!
(Bob, 22 July 2010 18:03)
Only one problem--in order to declare independence it would have to acknowledge that it is first a part of the country of Kosovo and Belgrade would disown them should they do that.
Hey, people, don't feel sorry for Jeremic. He'll survive the cut and thrust of Serbian politics. One day he'll be the president. This decision was a minor setback in his grand plan of political domination.
Now, let take stock of what happened today. Serbia's arguments on Kosovo's UDI rested on two pillars; first that independence violated international law and secondly that it also violated UN resolution 1244. Both these arguments have been found wanting and rejected. In fact, the ICJ was very clear in their opinion that Kosovo's intependence did not violate any international law or resolution 1244. What happens now? Belgrade's hand has been severely handicapped so it does not have much of a say. What matters is what the EU says on 26 July when they express their opinion on the ICJ decision. The five EU member states which do not recognise Kosovo have now lost their moral and legal high ground. As many observers said ahead of the ruling, the decision may be non-binding but it will have a very powerful political impact. Time is on Kosovo's side.
(Mospyt, 22 July 2010 19:37)
For people who don't care, they certainly spend a lot of time posting on serbian websites like b92. Or is it only the 10k+ albanians in Belgrade who post on b92?
Still, why hold your political bosses to account over jobs, debt, education, health, corruption, judicial independence when it is so much easier to post messages on a site that you don't care about? Duh!
(Aleks, 23 July 2010)
I only post to show the other side of the story to non-serbs readers of the site or to some Serbs who are willing to listen. I also enjoy having a debate with people who hold opposing views from mine.
I also come to B92 as I find it somewhat balanced and fair, as balanced and fair as a Serb site could possible be towards Albanians, and you'll never find me on anotehr Serb site.
I also do not harbor any ill will towards the Serb people and do indeed wish we'd get along as we are neighbors who I beleive share similar values and traditions.
Make no mistake though: No Albanian really cares what the Belgrade political class does or thinks. We are paving our own path. If Belgrade wants to cooperate then it's more than welcome to do so. However they seem hellbent on sabotaging every single move we make. It is simply not working. I feel bad for them honestly.
Can't someone in Serbia shut Jeremic up? He is an Albanian troll whose sole purpose is to discredit Serbia.
(miri, 22 July 2010 22:49)
Actually he is the grandson of a Bosnian Muslim. But he is just keeping up with the plan. He wanted that prime minister spot so badly but the party didn't agree the first time. He will give it another try,You know "he fought hard for Kosovo" so he deserves it. Wait for his next "diplomatic victory" in september.
it is no news when a baby loses to a man,but on the other hand its a big deal when a man loses to a baby,serbia no mater how long it takes you will surly give up on kosovo some day it might be in 10 or 500 years from now.i have always been saying this for some time now all the balkans need is to love one another.serbia will have no voice in the region in no distance time if their policies dont change towards other nations around them.KOSOVO you still have a lot to acommplish for get about who won or lost.use the money you have to build industries and not houses with no one to live in them.serbia be wise,kosovo open your eyes .
Can't someone in Serbia shut Jeremic up? He is an Albanian troll whose sole purpose is to discredit Serbia.
(miri, 22 July 2010 22:49)
Maybe when albanians stop trolling on serbian websites... It is almost as if they honestly think that they are going to change anybodies mind! Isn't the free and fair media in Pristina and Tirana fun enough? Still, it is good to see so many albanian commenters recognizing Serbia's pre-eminence and importance as a significant player in the balkans. Where would they be without it?* ;)
*bathing in asses milk and drinking through golden straws is not an answer.
No it's called vindication. We stopped caring about Serbia around 1999.
(Zoti, 22 July 2010 19:23)
For people who don't care, they certainly spend a lot of time posting on serbian websites like b92. Or is it only the 10k+ albanians in Belgrade who post on b92?
Still, why hold your political bosses to account over jobs, debt, education, health, corruption, judicial independence when it is so much easier to post messages on a site that you don't care about? Duh!
'I pray that Tadic and Vuk are just trying to save face right........'
Eh my boy. And I pray I go fishing under Fruska gora on weekend but I'll go do my dirty work :) So where I am it's crystal clear but I wonder which part of No Choice you people wont understand. Tadic and Vuk have no choice.
Can't someone in Serbia shut Jeremic up? He is an Albanian troll whose sole purpose is to discredit Serbia.
(miri, 22 July 2010 22:49)
====================
IMAGE SOURCE
46 Komentari
Sortiraj po: