"Kosovo UDI not in breach of intl. law"

ICJ's opinion seems to be that the mere proclamation of independence does not violate general international law -- which was how I interpreted its advice on Kosovo. This has opened up a Pandora's Box in which minorities anywhere (not just the K-Serbs) can now do UDIs and be considered not to have breached international law --Taiwan, Tibet, Macedonian Albanians, minorities in American, etc.
(lowe, 24 July 2010 15:35)

I think your interpretation is correct, but that's not the end of the story, because international law is made of general and special international law. So the UDIs of the other minorities you mentioned could still violate some lex specialis even though they are not against international law. So, you need a new opinion of the court on the accordance of their eventual UDIs with any applicable lex specialis.

Can you please cite the parts of the Opinion which say what you mention above ? I could not find anything.
(abc123, 24 July 2010 15:10)

The court by not explicity ruling in favour of Serbia in regards that 1244 "was only a temporary suspension of sovreignty" (courts factual backround), subsequently has supported the illegal UDI. Until that suspension is over and Serbia is granted it's sovreignty back, UDI is illegal under 1244, while in the interim supervision of UNMIK, all declarations of independance and subsequent recognitions are illegal as they break that UN resolution. The resolution also only allowed for autonomy, the breakdown in negotiations happend because the KAlb side wanted full independance only.
Dayton Accords are weaker compared to Res 1244 due to the fact the Dayton/Bosnia's preamble only contains "Committed to the sovereignty, territorial integrity, and political independence of Bosnia and Herzegovina in accordance with international law" and as ruled by the court there are no laws prohibiting calls for independance so long as it is not backed by illegal use of force, it would be in accordance with international law as per para 79. Res 787 or 820, in regards to Bosnia has well and truly expired in terms, that if RS announces a UDI tommorow without the use of force or ethnic cleansing it is not illegal and if it is attacked by any other nation it should be considered an act of aggression in international law.In regards to Bosnia's constitution, RS is an internationlly recognised border and if it leaves, continuation of Bosnia Herzegovina continues in the UN from the remaining federation thus not even breaking that constitution.
For seperatists all over the world this paragraph from it's ruling says it all,
Chapter 79 and specifically when resolutions including the Helsinki act are worthless chapter 122.
(Dan, 25 July 2010 12:34)

This paragraph is mostly your words, not Court’s ones. You said before the following:

Serbs have every right to seceede it does not violate international law now and it is the will of the people. 1244 does not exsist as ruled by the ICJ a simplistic and broad veiw although true. Territorial integrity does not exsist anymore, might is right has succeeded.
(Dan, 23 July 2010 13:47)
What is the paragraph of the Opinion that says this ? Your (not Court’s) lengthy paragraph does not show anything from the Court supporting what you said previously.

Finally your conclusion that “UDI is illegal under 1244” was rejected by the Court when it concluded very clearly in par. 119 that “the declaration of independence did not violate Security Council resolution 1244 (1999)”.

"You are Russia's fifth column in the Balkans. Putin won't allow you to "lick" anyone else's boots, you MUST exclusively lick his.
(Zoti, 25 July 2010 06:16) "

Aren't you guys licking Yankee boots now? The difference is that these boots were obviously bought from borrowed funds. http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

Can you please cite the parts of the Opinion which say what you mention above ? I could not find anything.
(abc123, 24 July 2010 15:10)

The court by not explicity ruling in favour of Serbia in regards that 1244 "was only a temporary suspension of sovreignty" (courts factual backround), subsequently has supported the illegal UDI. Until that suspension is over and Serbia is granted it's sovreignty back, UDI is illegal under 1244, while in the interim supervision of UNMIK, all declarations of independance and subsequent recognitions are illegal as they break that UN resolution. The resolution also only allowed for autonomy, the breakdown in negotiations happend because the KAlb side wanted full independance only.
Dayton Accords are weaker compared to Res 1244 due to the fact the Dayton/Bosnia's preamble only contains "Committed to the sovereignty, territorial integrity, and political independence of Bosnia and Herzegovina in accordance with international law" and as ruled by the court there are no laws prohibiting calls for independance so long as it is not backed by illegal use of force, it would be in accordance with international law as per para 79. Res 787 or 820, in regards to Bosnia has well and truly expired in terms, that if RS announces a UDI tommorow without the use of force or ethnic cleansing it is not illegal and if it is attacked by any other nation it should be considered an act of aggression in international law.In regards to Bosnia's constitution, RS is an internationlly recognised border and if it leaves, continuation of Bosnia Herzegovina continues in the UN from the remaining federation thus not even breaking that constitution.

For seperatists all over the world this paragraph from it's ruling says it all,

Chapter 79 and specifically when resolutions including the Helsinki act are worthless chapter 122.

"Not in the United States - it's against the law to attempt to secede. Sorry.

The problem in all the cases you mentioned isn't international law (which is silent on the matter, at least so far), but domestic law. So, if the Chinatown in Boston declares its independence, the leaders of the movement could be taken to court. (Or to the local jail, to sleep off the booze.) If, however, China recognizes the Republic of Boston-Chinatown, we may have to go to war. If we lose, the Republic of Boston-Chinatown will start issuing passports and driving licenses.
(Amer, 24 July 2010 21:01)"

Wow, so it is against the law in USA to secede! What earthshaking news!!!!

And I suppose it isn't against Serbian law for "Kosova" to secede! Talk about convenient double standards (and double talk too)!

My point was that the mere declaration of independence isn't considered by ICJ to be against international law. So Boston-Chinatown isn't breaking international law if it does a UDI. The question however is whether the UN will accept its UDI. Just like the issue now is whether the UN will accept "Kosova"'s UDI and admit it as the newest member -- I bet would be a definite NO! Not with Russia and China on the UNSC.

Whether you are licking Turkish, German, Austrian, American boots...whoever is the major power of the time, you just love licking their boots. Right now is no different. We Serbs are much different, just read some history and you will know why.
(Dragan, 24 July 2010)

You are Russia's fifth column in the Balkans. Putin won't allow you to "lick" anyone else's boots, you MUST exclusively lick his.

I believe that now both Serbs and Albanians should heal their wounds by indeed agreeing to new talks. There should be some ngociations if we ever want to have some peace. If I could speak for Albanians instead of EU and US, I would definetly let the north of Kosovo go to Serbia in exchange for Presevo valley. I know Albanians will never agree to that at this point, and also Serbs may not accept such a trade. But I see no other solution but future wars between 2 neighbors. And besides the Serb voices in the north or Albanian voices in Presevo valley should be heard and respected. If this is done and Serb enclaves are given some special status, there could indeed be peace some day....

If this is the case then the Republic of Srbska should declare independence from Bosnia since such declaration is not a violation of internatioanl law according to the ICJ / USA.

It also legalized similar declaration of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

YOU OPENED THE PANDORAS BOX NOW..

'in fact, all the Chinatowns in the West can do their own UDIs too .... Beijing can now have vassals in every major US and European city!
(lowe, 23 July 2010 05:12) '

Not in the United States - it's against the law to attempt to secede. Sorry.

The problem in all the cases you mentioned isn't international law (which is silent on the matter, at least so far), but domestic law. So, if the Chinatown in Boston declares its independence, the leaders of the movement could be taken to court. (Or to the local jail, to sleep off the booze.) If, however, China recognizes the Republic of Boston-Chinatown, we may have to go to war. If we lose, the Republic of Boston-Chinatown will start issuing passports and driving licenses.

"Side note, why is Albanians national hero a christian who fought along side the rest of the Christian Balkans against the Ottoman empire, yet the Kosovo Albanians are 90% Muslim and Turkish Ottoman praisers? Going against your own history it seems?
(HistoryProf, 23 July 2010) "

Albanians celebrate (and Western Europe was grateful to) Skanderbeg because he defended his country's freedom for a generation, and in so doing protected Italy (specifically) from falling to foreign domination. If Albanians later accepted Islam, this is a different matter - "the religion of Albanians is Albanianism", remember.

Gibbon wrote "John Huniades and Scanderbeg... are both entitled to our notice, since their occupation of the Ottoman arms delayed the ruin of the Greek empire" - against an overwhelming force, even a delay was important, since it allowed the rest of Europe to prepare itself for defense against future Ottoman attempts at conquest.

In no way is the battle over, totally opposite in Kosovo as well around the world. Besides tribe leaders in Pristina also many separatist movements in Somaliland, Palestine, Abkhasia, South-Ossetia, Nagorno-Karabakh, Transdnistria and even Basks in Spain have been celebrating ICJ's opinion on Kosovo. However the life in Kosovo probably will continue without dramatic change. Whatever – depending point of view – status Kosovo has, the province is de facto administrated by international community. After "humanitarian intervention" and billions of squandered euros Kosovo is a quasi-independent pseudo-state with good change to become next “failed” or “captured” state. Official economy will be subvented with massive international aid, private economy will still be based to drug- and trafficking money (e.g. “Balkan Route – Business as usual” http://arirusila.wordpress.com/2010/07/09/balkan-route-%E2%80%93-business-as-usual/), Nato troops secure that Kosovo Albanians are not killing too much members of minority communities, Pristina government tries to act with civilized manners, Serbs see their province still as an occupied territory. (More e.g. in “Kosovo: Two years of Pseudo-state” http://arirusila.wordpress.com/2010/02/20/kosovo-two-years-of-pseudo-state/).


The fact on the ground is that northern part of Kosovo is integrated to Serbia like it always has been, as well those pats south of Ibar river, which are not ethnically cleansed by Kosovo Albanians. Between ethnic groups a huge operation of international community is going on with its foggy ideas.

From my viewpoint the only way to get sustainable solution to Kosovo is through real negotiations between local stakeholders. To get start of real talks US should freeze or withdraw its recognition of Kosovo UDI; otherwise it takes too long time for Kosovo Albanians to find out that some negotiated outcome – be it cantonization, partition or whatever agreed - could be better than status quo. (About possible solutions “Dividing Kosovo – a pragmatic solution to frozen conflict” http://arirusila.wordpress.com/2008/10/03/dividing-kosovo-a-pragmatic-solution-to-frozen-conflict/ and “Cantonisation – a middle course for separatist movements” http://arirusila.wordpress.com/2008/09/17/cantonisation-%E2%80%93-a-middle-course-for-separatist-movements/)

"be it cantonization, partition or whatever agreed - could be better than status quo."

-- Better for who exactly? Specifically what incentives do we have so we can move and change things just so we save Serbia's face? Nothing. There is no incentive whatsoever on the Albanian side to help Serbia save face. Especially since Serbia is so hell bent against independence and even partition. Read their constitution. We'll take our sweet sweet time until together with the West we have achieved our goals. Meanwhile the Serbs and the Russians can keep being bitter.

Sorry to have burst your bubble and not live up to your stereotype of the Albanians.
(Zoti, 23 July 2010 16:43)

Whether you are licking Turkish, German, Austrian, American boots...whoever is the major power of the time, you just love licking their boots. Right now is no different. We Serbs are much different, just read some history and you will know why.

"Can you please cite the parts of the Opinion which say what you mention above ? I could not find anything.
(abc123, 24 July 2010 15:10)"

The ICJ opinion is non-binding and was never meant to be enforceable, unlike say, a UNSC resolution. So it is not a be all and end all.

"I'm not sure what you want to interpret. The Court was extremely clear:

1. Kosovo's UDI did not violate general international law

2. Kosovo's UDI did not violate Resolution 1244

3. Kosovo's UDI did not violate the Kosovo's Constitutional Framework

4. As a result, Kosovo's UDI does not violate international law.

No comment...
(icj1, 22 July 2010 18:30) "

Yes, the ICJ did advise on these.

Looking ahead, a precedent has now been set. Nothing legally to stop North Kosovo, for example, from declaring independence since that does not go against international law ..... in fact, all the Chinatowns in the West can do their own UDIs too .... Beijing can now have vassals in every major US and European city!
(lowe, 23 July 2010 05:12)

Well, for North Kosovo, that remains to be seen. For example, if North Kosovo declared independence, would that be against 1244 ? The Court did not rule on that. So a new advisory opinion is needed.

Serbs have every right to seceede it does not violate international law now and it is the will of the people. 1244 does not exsist as ruled by the ICJ a simplistic and broad veiw although true. Territorial integrity does not exsist anymore, might is right has succeeded.
(Dan, 23 July 2010 13:47)

The Court did not say any of these things and was deliberately careful in many parts of the Opinion to not even give that impression and to limit it to the case on hand – i.e. Kosovo’s UDI on 17/2/2008.

Can you please cite the parts of the Opinion which say what you mention above ? I could not find anything.

"Well, for North Kosovo, that remains to be seen. For example, if North Kosovo declared independence, would that be against 1244 ? The Court did not rule on that. So a new advisory opinion is needed.
(icj1, 24 July 2010 15:03) "

The court did not rule on North Kosovo because it was not asked by the UN to do so. I don't see anything in 1244 that prohibits it.

Yes, new ICJ advice is required for North Kosovo. The question however is whether Pristina is in any position to table it through the UN given that it is not even a member.

ICJ's opinion seems to be that the mere proclamation of independence does not violate general international law -- which was how I interpreted its advice on Kosovo. This has opened up a Pandora's Box in which minorities anywhere (not just the K-Serbs) can now do UDIs and be considered not to have breached international law --Taiwan, Tibet, Macedonian Albanians, minorities in American, etc.

"Not only does the decision clarify, without using weasel words, that Kosova's independence is legal, but that the RS cannot declare an independence of its own since this would violate special international law i.e. the Dayton Accords.
(Illyrian Citizen, 24 July 2010 01:27) "

North Kosovo and Strpce can proclaim independenc, since that will not go against international too, right?

"It is also interesting to note from my previous post that the judges from Brasil and Somalia voted for the resolution. All other judges voted in line with their countries international policy towards Kosovo. This could not have been done without some arm twisting; especially Somalia.

It is clear just like the Hague Tribunal, the ICJ is politically motivated and not a true abjudicator of international law and justice.
(Jugoslavija, 23 July 2010 20:03) "

Sierra Leone recognized Kosovo back in the spring of 2008, but its judge voted against the ICJ finding, so there's another country that voted against its government's decision.

On the other hand, Somalia recognized Kosovo on May 19, 2010, and the judge voted with the majority, for Kosovo.

Also voting for Kosovo were the judges from Mexico and Brazil, neither of whose countries has yet recognized Kosovo.

As a matter of fact, the
Brazilian judge wrote a separate opinion of 71 pages discussing the right of peoples to secession - sovereignty and territorial integrity should no longer be an excuse for violating a people's human rights, he argues - a vigorous defense from a young and vital nation. (All of the opinions are available at the B92 File Cabinet.)

It's not surprising that judges often agree with their own country's policies and judicial traditions. This hardly makes the court "politically motivated," though, especially as an institution with judges selected to represent all of the geographical areas of the world.

Congratulations to all my fellow Illyrians.

Well, I must say that I am pleased as punch concerning the decision of the ICJ.

Not only does the decision clarify, without using weasel words, that Kosova's independence is legal, but that the RS cannot declare an independence of its own since this would violate special international law i.e. the Dayton Accords.

and that´s a good thing, in the end of the day.
(Jovan, 23 July 2010 19:11)

If you read the commentaries of the judges, you will see that none go out on a limb on the "declaration of independance" In fact, they all qualify the decision with a remark that "based on the information provided" etc etc. Very ambigious to say the least.

It is also interesting to note from my previous post that the judges from Brasil and Somalia voted for the resolution. All other judges voted in line with their countries international policy towards Kosovo. This could not have been done without some arm twisting; especially Somalia.

It is clear just like the Hague Tribunal, the ICJ is politically motivated and not a true abjudicator of international law and justice.

I haven´t read all those 150+ comments and, to be honest, I won´t read them, since it is very likely only the usual rubbish by our dear k-albanian friends who are thinking to have "won" something... but actually they have not.

of course, it´s annoying that this court has not answered the question at all.
that´s something Serbia could be worried about.
but after reading the text of that "advisory opinion" and a little thinking, it´s quite obvious that neither the K-albanian speratists nor the Serbs have reason to be content.

first of all, the essence of that adivsory opinion is: the ICJ just said talks about the socalled "declaration" of indepence as a legally-technical figure.

and since they say that this declaration is not breaching international law, first, one could think that with that advisory opinion everything is done and won for the K-albanian separatists.

but, since the ICJ just gave an opinion about that declaration itself, and explicitely ruled out any other legal consequences of that declaration, the K-albanian separatists have nothing to be happy about.

in this case, given that the ICJ spoke as it did, it´s even more important what the judges did not say!

they did not justify secession, they did not give any advisory opinion about the legal aspects of the declaration itself.

and that means, they simply did not give any comment against, and even more important, no comment pro-independence.

that means, everything is going back to the UNGA and the UNSC.

so, my dear k-albanian friends, just like it is not a catastrophy for Serbia, it is no victory for the greater-albanian terrorists.

it´s just an advisory opinion of judges who didn´t want to take a stand.

if this outcome now is used by the US and their bootlickers, ...then it is just another sign of how weak their arguments actually are.

and that´s a good thing, in the end of the day.

To sabaton:

Skanderbeg lived only as a muslim by force, he was taken as a child from his family to submit to Islam and fight and kill against his own people. He was born a Christian and rose up to break free from the Ottomans and was named the Defender of Christianity. After his death his land and people fell to the Ottoman Islamic oppressors and his wife had to take refuge in the Kingdom of Naples.

I'm sure he wouldn't mind that right...seeing his people oppressed by the Ottomans, and other boys like himself being taken from their families for "devshirme" and become slaves.

I'm sure he wouldn't mind? ummmm I think he would roll in his grave if he heard they used his people as slaves for hundred of years, and then after they were driven out of the Balkans thanks to the Russians and other Eastern European forces his people keep the islamic faith of their oppressors.

What would Skanderbeg have to say...

You would save yourself much embarrassment if you would check your sources before making such statements. I believe you were reading a Serb blog mentioned below by one of your compatriots. Nowhere in the ICJ decision does it mention Genocide. I would expect you to be a bit more sophisticated than to fall for such infantile tactics.
(Young Turk, 23 July 2010 02:21)

Point well taken,just read the full texts yesterday and no mention of genocide was made.

Side note, why is Albanians national hero a christian who fought along side the rest of the Christian Balkans against the Ottoman empire, yet the Kosovo Albanians are 90% Muslim and Turkish Ottoman praisers? Going against your own history it seems?
(HistoryProf, 23 July 2010 15:37)

You don`t know the history of Skanderbeg. Just the fact that he was poisened by Venecian agents, tells that he was not strugling only against the ottomans. Also, back then, the only people still standing , were the albanians, who were christians mostly, but were influenced by different christian sects like orthodoxy and catholicism, back then , in 1453 a union of two religions emerged , the roman orthodoxy or sth, also many albanians, were still more pagan than christian back then, and used religion according to the temporary interest, even scanderbeg himself, born as a orthodox, converted to muslim whe he was a jannisary, when insurging, converted to catholicism, in order to approach the pope for a crusade against the ottomans, which, off course it remained on papers, as republic of venice would rather commerce with the ottomans rather than fight with them. Actually Scanderbeg could care less about religion, as any warrior prince in middle ages would, what Skanderbeg fought for was for a unified state, concentration of power and his own kingdom , he simply had a modern great leader`s vision, but what makes him greater than a modern leader like bismark etc. is the fact that he was a warrior himself, inspiring so legends, romantic heroisms , myths, which were pretty inspiring during the emerge of nationalism and romantism in the 19th century balkans, so was inspired the 1878 league of prizren for instance, where most of the attendants were muslim activists, even a late 18th century albanian muslim pasha, who created the illiricum confederation was inspired by skanderbeg, regardles his albano-montenegrin federation was crushed by ottomans.

Your anachronism does not surprise me...you know very well that Albanians are the most pro american people in europe, and are far more pro western than serbs, also, christianity is after all a semitic ideology, most of northen european countries are becoming atheistic, religion is opium for the masses,as marx stated, so being christian, does not make someone more pro western more than someone who was educated for 50 years with atheistic ideologies...of course most of albanians are identified as muslims, but it does not mean that Skanderbeg would have minded, after all he was muslim himself for 30 years, religion is like political parties, a private thing... and one last thing, ottoman empire does not exist anymore, but probaly implied turkey, which is a NATO member and with which Serbia has splendid relations. Only last week the turkish premier visited beograd. And who openly stated strong support for kosovo indipendence. I wonder what would karadjorgevic think.

Republica Srpska on the other hand, is a territory which has come to existence directly as a result of a brutal civil war, where ethnic cleansing, concentration & rape camps were used as weapons of choice. It did NOT exist within Yugoslavia, in any shape of form.
(AJ, 23 July 2010 10:58)

and Kosovo...

http://www.members.tripod.com/~sarant_2/ksm.html

The ethnic cleansing of 200,000 Roma, Serbs and other non Albanians from Kosovo

http://dissidentvoice.org/Articles/Rifati_Kosovo.htm

and that's just Kosovo. Shall I bring up Krajina?

Be careful there good Sir. You are in a glasshouse and you want to throw stones at me.

Fire away there AJ but you might get some of those windows broken :)

I don't understand what all the celebrating is for...

Same corrupt Albanians, still worst region in Europe, probably more drug and human trafficking, and with international troops leaving more room for criminals and extremist...all they got is a new flag and a different colour on the map beside Serbia?

The only thing of any significance that is new for them is that now you don't have the Serbian police trying to crack down on these criminals, and it will be left up to those running Kosovo govt to crack down, which is hard to believe since almost all their govt is made up of KLA members who were once listed as a terrorist organization just like that of the Tamil Tigers.

Bravo, big victory for the region.

Side note, why is Albanians national hero a christian who fought along side the rest of the Christian Balkans against the Ottoman empire, yet the Kosovo Albanians are 90% Muslim and Turkish Ottoman praisers? Going against your own history it seems?
(HistoryProf, 23 July 2010)

Makes you wonder right. Well it's becasue in a world divided along religious lines the Albanians have chosen to rise above that and put religious divisions aside to come together as one nation. we are Albanians first ann foremost. It's a concept hard to grasp by non-Albanians but to us it's just natural. The most revered XX century Albanian figure is also Mother Theresa.

Sorry to have burst your bubble and not live up to your stereotype of the Albanians.

to AJ:

- I am not a Serb, but I know one thing RS does have the right to make its own decission about their future, as does every State. This is a world where if the majority want something, than the majority get it.

- To say Serbs have no history in Bosnia and Republika Srpska is the biggest lie. Serbs have been in Bosnia longer than anyone. Bosniak Muslims are just Croat and Serb converts to Islam.

- What happened to the Serbs living in the Croat-Bosnia Federation and Krajina in Croatia, they all moved to RS for protection because they were being driven out, ethnicly cleansed from their area. Point is all 3 sides forced each other to safe havens of areas with ethnic majority. Regardless Serbs have been in Bosnia since day one, and have every right to leave. They have their own govt, police, borders, etc.

- If anything Bosnia is not even a real country, it was a quick draw up from the Western world and is not working to this day. If a multi-ethnic Yugoslavia couldn't work, or a multi-ethnic Kosovo, then how can a multi-ethnic Bosnia work? Enough of the double standards and give each side the right!

- Kosovo was created just as fast as the RS. Tito wanted a weaker Serbia to make a stronger Yugoslavia, giving Kosovo away. This gave the green light to Albanians to start pushing out the Serbs removing them from jobs and burning their villages and churches.

- Kosovo was taken from Serbia, if you were to read the demographic history of Kosovo statistics it is clear that Serbs were the majority in Kosovo and Bosnia in the 13th and 14th century, and over time both have been stolen.

- Sum it up RS in Bosnia has more right to leave than Kosovo does.

***** ***** *****
Side note, why is Albanians national hero a christian who fought along side the rest of the Christian Balkans against the Ottoman empire, yet the Kosovo Albanians are 90% Muslim and Turkish Ottoman praisers? Going against your own history it seems?

"Wow, Brazil and Mexico with Kosovo, Sierra Leone against!!!
(Hekuran, 23 July 2010 11:29) "

Exactly - this should (well, might) stop all the talk about judges being either the mouthpieces of their governments, or bought off by the nefarious Americans. (We could buy off Brazil, but not Sierra Leone?!!)

BTW, those who are complaining that the judges didn't consider the underlying question of whether secession was legal should read the separate opinions, where some of the judges indicate they would have liked to have taken Serbian treatment of its "ethnic-Albanian" citizens into account. The judge from Brazil wrote a lengthy and eloquent discussion of the development of international law, calling for an end to the use of claims of sovereignty to prevent consequences from being imposed for abusing its own citizens. No wonder the Chinese judge got so sick he had to go home.

I don't understand your point since when US recognized Kosovo, it was no longer part of Serbia, so I don't see how US violated Serbia's territorial integrity.

This is the same as saying those who recognize US violate the territorial integrity of UK. Come on... haven't you had enough of such laughable arguments.
(abc123, 22 July 2010 19:49)

I would laugh at your arguement if I was in the mood too.
The US used force aided and abetted the insurgeny in Kosovo then forced Serbs into the Kumanovo agreement in exchange to stop it's bombing campaign then as you say recognised Kosovo. Now read again, article one instead of trying to create grey areas.
Serbs have every right to seceede it does not violate international law now and it is the will of the people.
1244 does not exsist as ruled by the ICJ a simplistic and broad veiw although true. Territorial integrity does not exsist anymore, might is right has succeeded.
This is how it always was, this was the death of the league of nations and the UN might follow suit.
http://www.balkanalysis.com/blog/2008/12/06/greater-and-lesser/

The Serbs need to concentrate on their freindships with Russia and China and take note of how US influence in the pipeline wars in Bulgaria dissipated.

Hot very hot summer this will be . I hope Bosnia will recognize Kosovo's independence. That would be one of the most funniest mistakes of all time.Even the Attila the hun will laugh in grave.
When u play with fire....

Wow, Brazil and Mexico with Kosovo, Sierra Leone against!!!

I am sick and tired of people having the cheek to compare Republican Srpska with Kosovo.
Kosovo was a self-governing, autonomous unit within the federation of Yugoslavia. Its current borders pre- existed, , are unchanged from today, and were guaranteed by the 1974 Yugoslav constitution (few seem to remember that, when Milosevic revoked the autonomy of Kosovo & Vojvodina , this act was unconstitutional. This very act was the beginning of the end for Yugoslavia. This Milosevic deed was referred to as unconstitutional by a large number of delegates, whom showed real discontent, and were predominantly non -Serb). Today’s Kosovo, did not gain an inch of its territory through means of war.
For ICJ, the Kosovo question was legally resolved, within the Yugoslavian context.

Republica Srpska on the other hand, is a territory which has come to existence directly as a result of a brutal civil war, where ethnic cleansing, concentration & rape camps were used as weapons of choice. It did NOT exist within Yugoslavia, in any shape of form.

It's interesting which judges voted for and which against the ruling.

Pro:

Hisashi Owada, Japan
Thomas Buergenthal, USA
Christopher Greenwood, GB
Ronny Abraham, France
Bruno Simma, Germany
Kenneth Keith, New Zealand
Awn Shawkat, Jordania
Antônio A. Cançado Trindade Brazil !!!
Abdulqawi Ahmed Yusuf, Somalia
Bernardo Sepúlveda, Mexico


Contra:

Peter Tomka, Slovakia
Leonid Skotnikov, Russia
Abdul G. Koroma,Sierra Leone
Mohamed Bennouna, Maroc

The chinese judge was absent ?!

The court spoke, and it did it quite clear. this issue is over. Let us all together move on to a better future, at least let us try.

"I'm not sure what you want to interpret. The Court was extremely clear:

1. Kosovo's UDI did not violate general international law

2. Kosovo's UDI did not violate Resolution 1244

3. Kosovo's UDI did not violate the Kosovo's Constitutional Framework

4. As a result, Kosovo's UDI does not violate international law.

No comment...
(icj1, 22 July 2010 18:30) "

Yes, the ICJ did advise on these.

Looking ahead, a precedent has now been set. Nothing legally to stop North Kosovo, for example, from declaring independence since that does not go against international law ..... in fact, all the Chinatowns in the West can do their own UDIs too .... Beijing can now have vassals in every major US and European city!

Not only your billfold can be stolen. Your country can be stolen.....as is Kosovo.
The court is biased and not something you should even consider as legal. It is sad but watch out all Balkin countries, Albanians are pretty slick.

Serbia is discriminated against because of their relationship with Russia.

Good luck Serbs, may the heavens give you many, many years of prosperity.

Kosovo has won!
(Ian, UK, 22 July 2010, 16:38)"

Won what UK? Another false hope??? LOL

Do you know what an independent state or country is comprised of and what it's privileges are?

Guys too much water under the bridge already. Let Kosovo and Serbia develop the economy, that is what is needed. Milosevic (The Thief) is gone. We have to keep an eye on the new thieves.
C'mon guys its sour grapes, you can NOT change the course of history.
And that is very well said, I'm tapping myself on a shoulder. Good Boy I said.....

Because of Milosevic the world came to know the existence of Kosovo. Because of him Kosovo is no longer ruled by Serbia. Because of Jeremic more countries will recognize Kosovo’s independence. Two great leaders, Slobo and Vuk

RE; ICJ was influenced.

The declaration of "Genocide in Kosovo" , a completed falsehood and absurdity takes away the credibility of its ruling. This can only be from the primary influence of the US to make such an accusation and untrue statement.
(konstantin gregovic, 22 July 2010 16:59)

Konstantin Gregovic,

You would save yourself much embarrassment if you would check your sources before making such statements. I believe you were reading a Serb blog mentioned below by one of your compatriots. Nowhere in the ICJ decision does it mention Genocide. I would expect you to be a bit more sophisticated than to fall for such infantile tactics.

it's been some treacherous waters -- and more to come. but today we celebrate!

let's move forward.

thank you.

roberto
frisco
(roberto, 22 July 2010 17:50)

Yes, you may celebrate. As for "treacherous waters" - it's nearly guaranteed.

Just think next Serbian elections looming and what kind of promise the potential winner regarding Kosovo can make. Hint: active presence of R.F. army is explicitly mentioned in 1244. Somewhat rather unexploited till now. In the fact, R.F. army was withdrawn - as I assume because some Serbian steps weren't what R.F. government was happy about.

Just imagine the price of the return, surely granted by new Serbian government: military bases, missiles stationed, territory leased for 99 years and so on.

I am sure, West will do it's best to turn elections their way. They will "succeed" like in Ukraine.

----

Who won today:

- Thaci clan clearly. Not because it would change the status but simply because with today's verdict more easy money will flow to Kosovo in the hope of investment they can "harvest". Use for ordinary citizens is probably limited if any.

- Army of R.F. and still over-present nomenklatura (not granted, but possible)

- American establishment (temporarily)

- Serbian nationalists you like that much

- Most likely, Dodik

Who lost today:

Ordinary Serbs in Kosovo

Sorry to spoil your celebration.

It was clear to me that the American manipulated court(in the Netherlands-puppet state) by a Japanese judge(puppet) would rule that way.

But anyway,this only showed to many weak countries that the US is trying to strongarm legal decisions by courts in their favor and will create fear and anxiety in them since they now know that "Right is might" and could be used to their misfortune.
Thats why this ruling will keep these countries who have been scared to death today on our side .
The Albanians from our southern province gloating should be reminded that our strategy was not going to court and "winning this case" but to drag the recognictions away and shed light on this issue which worked in our favor.
The point is:
all important countries that were on our side will stay on our side.
Kosovo will de jure stay Serbian since the ruling only had an "advisory character" and UN1244 clearly states that Kosovo is Serbia.UN,EU and NATO will be blocked indefinitely by our allies and we will wait for the first chanche to solve this problem once and for all militarily.

"Good luck on getting a download - I haven't been able to connect to the icj site yet (12 noon, EDT). Did it crash completely?" (Amer)

-- First, good to see you here again. I thought you had all but given up on B92 months ago. As far as the individual rulings, B92 provided statements here, if you haven't seen it already:

http://www.b92.net/eng/insight/pressroom.php?yyyy=2010&mm=07&nav_id=68622

I'll probably be spending most of tomorrow reading through them all.

"After the story in Blic a few days back saying that the ruling would be written by those opposing Kosovo's position I was pretty much resigned to having to use the "facts on the ground" argument to justify the U.S."

-- I have to admit I'm not happy with the decision and I'm surprised an ambiguous ruling wasn't proclaimed. But I'm not going to jump up and down and accuse the ICJ of wrongdoing. If the ruling were in Belgrade's favor, we'd be the happy ones saying the law was on our side. But as nikshala aptly allegorized below, if you gamble for high stakes and win, you walk away feeling good. If you gamble for high stakes and lose, you can't ask the House for a do-over.

So what's done is done, and I feel Belgrade has run out of practical options. More power to them if they can maintain a "frozen conflict", but the more they do, the more they clearly are seen as obstructionist. My personal opinion would be to start negotiating internal mechanisms of government in Kosovo vis a vis Mitrovica and Pristina with EULEX as the supervisor. Talks are certainly going to resume but after today Pristina cannot be denied being seen as an equal negotiator.

Upward and onward.

BadKittyKitty,

I agree with you that quebecers behave like little spoiled children. They get what they want and they don't really intend to split from canada. Therefore, we can not compare kosovo to quebec and canada to serbia. these are totally different situations. my point was that the ICS decision will not have a real influence on quebec. As you said, quebec has a huge deficit and would not be able to stand on its feet as an independant country, as it seems right now. Here in ontario the impression is that they don't work very hard. In general, french people love social security services, which put a huge burden on taxpayers and the economy itself. We will see.

To Niall O'Doherty

I'm impressed that an 'Irish Catholic' like yourself (I'm still not convinced that you're from Ireland) has such great admiration for Serbian nationalism.
Maybe it's a about time you showed your true colours too...

I can't get over the irony of ICJ ruling. I can only imagine what it must feel like... but you deserved what you got!
If I were in your position mate I would just sleep on it and spend your time in more constructive and interesting things rather than meddling with other people's countries!
(adrian kola, 22 July 2010 18:03)

To adrian,

You better believe that I am Irish. My birth certificate says that I was born in Ireland and my passport says that I'm Irish so I guess despite the protestations of an Albanian nationalist like yourself, I guess that does indeed make me Irish. Satisfied?

You want to know why I as a non-Serbs I feel so passionate about Serbia's province illegally wrenched from it through force and why I empathise with Serbs?

Your answer contains 2 words..

Northern Ireland. That's right buddy.

Oiche mhaith :)
(Niall O'Doherty, 22 July 2010 21:04)
To: Niall

Fella, you should complain to the Irish government for recognising Kosovo and I am sure Bono disagrees with you. I am also suspicious of you being Irish,I am Albanian but people here in the UK confuse me for being Irish, They say it's my accent.

Cheers and Happy Days to All.

Finally both sides can sort out their relations and act as good neighbours.
Congratulations to people of Kosovo..A deserved victory nonetheless.

They deliberated over a year to make this dum annoucement! The world will not thank them and we all know who the dum architect is! The north should waste no time in declaring themselves independent as North Kosovo.

" Like I have always said, Kosovo's independence isn't against international law.

Serbia has failed!

Kosovo has won!
(Ian, UK, 22 July 2010, 16:38)"

Can you show me where that was said? Let's be honest here Ian it's a bit of a nothing opinion however it's another tick in the box towards Kosovo independence. There are bigger hurdles ahead.

"Yeh Niall, you never know, it might provoke all kinds of oppressed peoples to get ideas about "illegal secession" from the nations they are captured inside. For example, it might lead the Irish people to declare an "illegal" UDI against their legitimate British rulers. We're writing now in 1910 what not? Predictions are that these terrible Irish "separatists", using fake arguments that they have been oppressed by Britain for hundreds of years, will be launching this UDI by about 1916-22, after which these "irredentists" will keep trying to get the part north of the Ibar as well (oops, that was, the 6 counties).
(DimTuc, 22 July 2010, 17:30)"

It is not particularly relevant to draw parallels that don't apply. Why not just say that today's opinion neither make legal or illegal any particular secession including that of Kosovo. It does not open any doors for others.

As you know many have tried to say that precedents have been set for Scotland. Like Ireland, Scotland has all the attributes of a state in its own right and always has had. Kosovo is a "special case" apparently but I don't see it. The real issue is how we deal with the implications of what the regime in the 90's done and it's effect on sovereignty. No state has the balls to go near that question.

To Niall O'Doherty

I'm impressed that an 'Irish Catholic' like yourself (I'm still not convinced that you're from Ireland) has such great admiration for Serbian nationalism.
Maybe it's a about time you showed your true colours too...

I can't get over the irony of ICJ ruling. I can only imagine what it must feel like... but you deserved what you got!
If I were in your position mate I would just sleep on it and spend your time in more constructive and interesting things rather than meddling with other people's countries!
(adrian kola, 22 July 2010 18:03)

To adrian,

You better believe that I am Irish. My birth certificate says that I was born in Ireland and my passport says that I'm Irish so I guess despite the protestations of an Albanian nationalist like yourself, I guess that does indeed make me Irish. Satisfied?

You want to know why I as a non-Serbs I feel so passionate about Serbia's province illegally wrenched from it through force and why I empathise with Serbs?

Your answer contains 2 words..

Northern Ireland. That's right buddy.

Oiche mhaith :)

Court's Decision:
http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/files/141/15987.pdf

The court decided three issues:

1. Agreed (14-0) with Serbia that the Court can give an opinion;

2. Agreed (9-5) with Serbia that the Court should give an opinion;

3. Agreed (10-4) with Kosovo that the declaration of independence of Kosovo adopted on 17 February 2008 did not violate international law.

Yeh Niall, you never know, it might provoke all kinds of oppressed peoples to get ideas about "illegal secession" from the nations they are captured inside. For example, it might lead the Irish people to declare an "illegal" UDI against their legitimate British rulers. We're writing now in 1910 what not? Predictions are that these terrible Irish "separatists", using fake arguments that they have been oppressed by Britain for hundreds of years, will be launching this UDI by about 1916-22, after which these "irredentists" will keep trying to get the part north of the Ibar as well (oops, that was, the 6 counties).
(DimTuc, 22 July 2010 17:30)

There is a big difference between our situation and yours.

Unlike you lot we are native to Ireland not the colonists that you lot are. Our country was invaded by the British and we fought them for hundreds of years before we won our freedom. We even signed a bilatral agreement with the UK (Anglo Irish Treaty) which legalised our independence.

Chalk and cheese Dim.

Like all US imperialist apologists, the moral of the story is:

Must try harder.

liberty,

I live in Montreal and I am inclined to agree with you. It is such a shame that individuals here base their whole independence argument on ''ZOMG Anglos are oppressing us''.
Also, Quebec has such deficit going on right now - if they are to pay out to Canada their share of the debt, and begin generating their money for social services they'd be bankrupt before they could say 'independence'.
I have nothing against Quebec, but in a scope of things it is behaving like a spoiled little child who screams and threatens independence if they don't get what and how much they want of anything.
Government is however smarter than that - instead of declaring independence and flinging its people into poverty, it wisely chooses to stay within the federation, keep it's language and continues to function within Canada.
Wages ARE lower here, and taxes are higher and nationalism remains rampant and phrase Vive le Quevec libre remains a hollow echo.

If UDI is not illegal, Quebec should, then, declare independence and continue to leach off federal grants from Canada. ICJ seems to think it's legal, so allez le Quebec. On va faire ce qu'on veut, la!

This is the narrow interpretation that so many expected. It is another hurdle completed by Kosovo that will result in new recognitions. However, it actually solves nothing in international law. It doesn't permit secession but says my granny can declare it all she wants but that doesn't make her independence lawful. I'm really disappointed with the sloppy (or politically biased) reporting of this. For example the BBC had a headline "Kosovo independence legal". The court done all it could to expressly make it clear that it was not deciding on that.

So basically this is the fudge we expected and to be honest on the general question of UDI's being in violation of international law i think it was right. It is not the 100% win for Kosovo - that would be if the court adopted a broad interpretation and ruled on the legality of independence as I think it could have been justified in doing to give the proceedings purpose.

The most surprising thing was that elected people of the Kosovo Assembly go to the Kosovo Assembly and make a declaration but they are not acting as the Kosovo Assembly. How bizarre !

There is one really unfortunate by product of this opinion and that is the future of transitional UN administration. It has all but killed the possibility of that in the future. If this ruling had been known in 1999 then resolution 1244 could not have been achieved - god help the next Kosovo.

So, in fact it says: "Everything that's not explicitely illegal can be considered legal."
(Top, 22 July 2010 19:22)

Precisely...

It's something that is taught in any Law 101 class

If something does not violate a law than it is in accordance with the law.

As a quebecer, it is frightening to predict the effect that this will have in the future. The last independence referendum held in 1995 failed by 0.5%. Next time the Parti Quebecois is in power they will not need to call a referendum. A UDI will suffice.
(hybrid, 22 July 2010 17:45)

Hybrid,

I live in canada and I'm a francophone. The quebecers have tried three times and have failed to obtain a majority in a referendum, regardless of today's court decision. At the very end, it is not certain that quebecers want to be a sovereign nation. They are rather pressing the federal government for more concessions. I live in toronto and work as a french teacher for the french board. All the personnel in the board is from quebec, although many many ontarian francophones are qualified to teach. If you talk to them they say they were members of PQ, but now they see things differently (they got a job in the English Canada province and fat salaries)and they don't think any more that quebecers should separate. Almost all the bilingual jobs at the government level are taken by quebecers. The fact that bloc quebecois is in the federal parliament means that those guys care more about their interests that those of francophones. Overall, I think that this decision will not have a great impact on Quebec.

Indirectly, the answer ("yes, it is not illegal to declare an UDI") also means, "yes, it is not illegal to secede").

(Ataman, 22 July 2010 19:50)

No, I think you are jumping to far reaching conclusions that the Court explicitly said it was not deciding upon. The Court said ***KOSOVO*** UDI is not a violation of international law. STOP.

It was not asked to and did not decide whether secession is legal or illegal under int’l law. Also it did not decide whether any UDI is legal or illegal under int’l law. The only general principle that the Court confirmed and is valid for all cases was that UDI’s are not against ***GENERAL*** international law.

For example, if RS declared independence from BiH and BiH asks for an advisory opinion on its legality, the Court may decide as follows:


1. RS’s UDI does not violate general international law (as established in the Kosovo case);

2. RS’s UDI violates special international law (Dayton Accords) (this is different from Kosovo which is regulated by 1244 and not the Dayton Accords).

3. RS’s UDI violates international law because it violated special int’l law.

So before saying that others (for example Abkhazia, RS, Basques, Taiwan, Cyprus, etc.) are affected by this ICJ Decision we need to see what is the special international law (similar to Resolution 1244, Dayton Accords, SC Resolutions on Cyprus), if any, which regulates those cases.

Absolutely appalling to see Serbs and so called "internationals" threatening peace and stability in the world. They are just showing their true faces.

if one side (USA) is acting cynically - than why should Serbs play nice?
(Ataman, 22 July 2010 19:50)

C'mon Ataman you know the reason. Think harder. If you need help I will give you a hint. Doing the opposite would be suicidal. The Serbs have been doing suicidal politics for decades. Bosnia, Croatia, Kosova, even Slovenia, and yet you still don't understand why Serbs should play nice. It is because those suicidal policies that Serbia is in the $h..ty place it is today. Just imagine for a little that instead of those thousands of Serbs in the center of Belgrade,orchestrated by Milosevic, hadn't in practice threatened the lives of the leaders of those republics in that meeting resulting in the annulment of Kosova's autonomy. Imagine what would not have happened. Kosova would for one maybe still be autonomous. The Serb public would not have backed ultra-nationalistic policies of Milosevic, which it did. There would be no agression towards the other republics and there might even be a chance that we would have a Jugoslavia in the EU with great influencing powers. Instead Serbia, its public, its politicians chose the ultra-nationalist, self-destructive ways. Yet you are here decades latter asking why you shouldn't take that same road. Well if the results of those policies haven't taught you anything then by all means, go ahead.

Its funny but you Albanians would not do a thing different even if the decision went in Serbia's favor. I do not see how today is different than yesterday.

(Jason, 22 July 2010)

You're right we wouldn't. It wasn't us who brought he case before the ICj it was Serbia. It is time Serbia wake up and smell the coffee we brewed 10 years ago.

Good luck on getting a download - I haven't been able to connect to the icj site yet (12 noon, EDT). Did it crash completely?
(Amer, 22 July 2010 19:06)


I haven't been able to log in to the icj website since 15:00

Even Kosovo media has reported on the site being overloaded.

So I watched the icj session live on Al Jazeera.

As far as Russians are concerned, seems like they keep parroting the same old slogans.

So, in fact it says: "Everything that's not explicitely illegal can be considered legal."

Next steps: Serbs in the north and all enclaves should recognize Kosovo, and at the same time declare their UDI form the dream state of Kosovo - perfectly legal.

I love the Balkans! The entire country is falling apart, there are no jobs to talk of, people are so fed up with years and years of transition and the governments of Kosovo and Serbia hang around the Hague in jets solving nothing but feeding more nationalism to their people because if they didn't talk nationalism they may start to ask their governments: what is it that you're doing to make things better?

(Jason, 22 July 2010 19:13)

Serbia's main argument so far was that UDI broke international law - today we found out it didn't therefore their main argument is gone.

What this has done is more than we albanians ever expected - Serbia shot itself in the foot and confirmed to every country in the world that UDI was NOT illegal.

This will lead to further recognitions potentially reaching the 100 threshhold.

So, yes it will have a huge political impact.

As an albanian I would like to thank Jeremic because everytime he spoke, something good would happen and I seriously think he has done unintentionally more lobbying for Kosovan independence than our elected leaders.

"Amer, I think this tells enough to everybody:
"Kosovo UDI not in breach of intl. law"
(predictor, 22 July 2010 17:02) "

Yes! You're absolutely right - that comment of mine I think you were referring to was written before I knew the outcome. I had no hope the finding would be so definitive.

But as far as I'm concerned, it's status is confirmed.
(Mike, 22 July 2010)

Yes, according the now-official interpretation of the international law, Kosovo's UDI is not against it. The question Serbia asked maybe wasn't best-formulated, in retrospect they maybe should ask "is secession legal or not?" instead of "is UDI legal or not?". Indirectly, the answer ("yes, it is not illegal to declare an UDI") also means, "yes, it is not illegal to secede").

If this is the interpretation of the law, than one is clear: the legality of any kind of secession is determined purely by the fact of it's success.

If you look in the detail, you will see, nothing is new.

Example: secession of Confederate States of America was illegal because South lost the war. But secession of United States from British Empire was legal because they won the war of independency.

So the court essentially pretty cynically confirmed what people know for thousands of years. Fine. What I don't see: if one side (USA) is acting cynically - than why should Serbs play nice?

As a quebecer, it is frightening to predict the effect that this will have in the future. The last independence referendum held in 1995 failed by 0.5%. Next time the Parti Quebecois is in power they will not need to call a referendum. A UDI will suffice.
(hybrid, 22 July 2010 17:45)

Hybrid,

I live in canada and I'm a francophone. The quebecers have tried three times and have failed to obtain a majority in a referendum, regardless of today's court decision. At the very end, it is not certain that quebecers want to be a sovereign nation. They are rather pressing the federal government for more concessions. I live in toronto and work as a french teacher for the french board. All the personnel in the board is from quebec, although many many ontarian francophones are qualified to teach. If you talk to them they say they were members of PQ, but now they see things differently (they got a job in the English Canada province and fat salaries)and they don't think any more that quebecers should separate. Almost all the bilingual jobs at the government level are taken by quebecers. The fact that bloc quebecois is in the federal parliament means that those guys care more about their interests that those of francophones. Overall, I think that this decision will not have a great impact on Quebec.

You asked for International law Jeremic, now you finally you got it. Go Kosovo!
(Pejoni, 22 July 2010 18:40)

Its funny but you Albanians would not do a thing different even if the decision went in Serbia's favor. I do not see how today is different than yesterday.

Kosovo north is still Serbian controlled and your phantom KSF base you predicted last April is still nowhere to be seen. Pristina is still run by Albanians and internationals, just as it was yesterday.

The only difference is that the north can use this precedent to secede from the rest of Kosovo should it choose. Otherwise, business as usual I am afraid.

"-- Well no matter how you slice it, this is a major victory for Pristina. It will be interesting to read the entire ruling ...

(Mike, 22 July 2010) "

Good luck on getting a download - I haven't been able to connect to the icj site yet (12 noon, EDT). Did it crash completely? U.S. newsites had nothing for the longest time, then only the headline-version of events.

After the story in Blic a few days back saying that the ruling would be written by those opposing Kosovo's position I was pretty much resigned to having to use the "facts on the ground" argument to justify the U.S. supporting them, along with whatever could be extracted from what was predicted (hoped?) to be a muddy, inconclusive text. Speaking of hoping, I hope nobody paid too much for that "scoop."

Ok, I'm off to look at the Russians' view of things - today I really wish I knew Chinese.

For RS the special int'l law are the Dayton Accords and they ***DO*** prohibit a UDI, but again if somebody has doubts can bring that to the Court.
(abc123, 22 July 2010 17:22)

Dayton Accords
Article I
The Parties shall conduct their relations in accordance with the principles set forth in the United Nations Charter, as well as the Helsinki Final Act and other documents of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe. In particular, the Parties shall fully respect the sovereign equality of one another, shall settle disputes by peaceful means, and shall refrain from any action, by threat or use of force or otherwise, against the territorial integrity or political independence of Bosnia and Herzegovina or any other State.

See article one and you see a contradiction, the US actually broke Dayton by recognising Kosovo. US along with Croatia two signatories broke article 1 by using force against and/or not recognising the territorial integrity of one of the signatories through Kosovo's UDI.
(Dan, 22 July 2010 18:36)

I don't understand your point since when US recognized Kosovo, it was no longer part of Serbia, so I don't see how US violated Serbia's territorial integrity.

This is the same as saying those who recognize US violate the territorial integrity of UK. Come on... haven't you had enough of such laughable arguments.

DEAR JEREMIC. Please step down from your position. All you said to Serbian people were lies. Dear Tadic. Regognize Kosovo and move forward. You know it well, its nothing left to fight for. Kosovo is independent as it should have been since 1912.

If I were in your position mate I would just sleep on it and spend your time in more constructive and interesting things rather than meddling with other people's countries!
(adrian kola, 22 July 2010 18:03)

Funny how you didn't tell Blair, Clinton and Albright that!

It's crystal clear now who also controls even this "court. GET THE HELL OUT OF OUR COUNTRY AMERICAN SCUMBAGS!!!

This is great new for Kosovo and its citizens. This should be good news for Serbia too. After all, it is about time for Serbia move on from the past and look forward to the future. Next step is for both Serbia and Kosovo build up good relations.

Serbia's shooting blanks, this time it shot it self on the foot. interesting to see now how long serbia can stand it's stance towards the kosovo indepnendent. my view is that kosovo will gain enough recognition in time to become a UN member and defend its case against Serbia many worthles resolution. Id also like to point out wasted money serbia spends fighting the kosovo case could have been spend wisely on its citezen.

"Well, in Europe the USA is the big guy. But in the Caucasus it is Russia.

Think the Georgian president will regret this day.

Finally: I think China and US will keep on blocking Kosovo from entering UN!

SO what has changed? (Almost) nothing!

Greetings for Western EUrope!
(Ron)"

Ron, what's changed is a lot!
Serbia objected the legitimacy of the UDI and lost!

If you want to through foreign countries in the mix, go ahead that that doesn't matter to Albanians.

We can all pretend here to be experts in international law and predict who else is going to secede.

I don't think RS and Serbs in Montenegro will be successful in seceding (not that I object to it).

While I'm on the topic of predictions who thinks that Tadic & Jeremic will survive this lost at the next elections, and if they lose, who will win?

I am waiting for the Serbian side predicting Apocalypse is coming.The world will not be the same anymore.
(Mark, 22 July 2010 17:23)

There won't be any "Apocalypse". What Serbia should do is to stick to the provision of 1244 which allows Serbian and Russian military presence in the province. So VS (and Russian army) should move in because it is in spirit of 1244. This is to protect the Serbian enclaves.

But to tell the truth, I don't think the current leadership in Belgrade or even the opposition will go for it.

Sadly, the current government bet on wrong horse and lost.

Well now the Serbs of Kosmet and BiH now have the legal right to self determination. The Court has now confirmed it.
(Niall O'Doherty, 22 July 2010 17:09)

I disagree because the Court confirmed that KOSOVO didn't violate the international law.

As for Republic of Srpska, you should spent more time and money to have another opinion. Good luck!

So K/As, do you feel any more independent today than yesterday?

If you do, that means that you haven't grown a callus around it yet.

I think North Kosovo should declare its independance now. If the Albanians send forces in then they will be seen for what they really are. The aggressor. O and RS would be a nice consolation prize. We tried to do things the right way but I guess the world likes it dirty so if you can't beat them join them.

O and just to be as hypocritical as everyone else never recognise Kosovo.

This issue is over and done. Let's move on!

Time out everyone. Here's how I would interpret the ICJ's decision:

The ICJ's ruling was NOT that Kosovo's UDI was legal. The verdict in fact was neutral - ie. that international law simply does not have the mandate to pass judgement about UDIs by Kosovo or others. The ICJ deals with dispute between countries, not between a country and those within it seeking to secede. I admit that this was something that I didn't know previously.

(lowe, 22 July 2010 17:28)

I'm not sure what you want to interpret. The Court was extremely clear:

1. Kosovo's UDI did not violate general international law

2. Kosovo's UDI did not violate Resolution 1244

3. Kosovo's UDI did not violate the Kosovo's Constitutional Framework

4. As a result, Kosovo's UDI does not violate international law.

No comment...

I thought that the odds would be in favor that the ICJ would rule that Kosovo's independence is valid. I am right. The USA and NATO are very rich and very powerful. Obviously, any country or territory which has the USA and NATO as an ally can expect to treated like royality; to enjoy special rights; privileges. When the USA invaded Iraq with the "weapons of mass destruction" hoax;and occupies Iraq even today, did the ICJ condemn that invasion; that occupation? No. There you go. When did the ICJ ever issue a ruling condemning anything which the USA and NATO ever did? Does the ICJ kowtow to the USA and NATO?

I just heard that in light of today's advisory opinion, Northern Kosmet is working on its own declaration of independence, which they will issue at the right time. They are bouyed by today's decision - that there is no international law that would render such a declaration by the Republic of Northern Kosmet illegal. They too want self-determination and freedom, and they now have a blueprint. they're not expecting a wave of recognitions right away(those are political decisions in any case), and they first will be working with Serbia to see if they can help them sneak into the General Assembly in September to begin lobbying for that political support. Will be interesting to see how quickly they will get support. Pristina said that if the EULEX does not allow them to send in their special police, they will challenge the independence declaration in the ICJ (given that they have support there), as soon as they become a UN member . . . stay tuned.

On the flip side, while the ruling may be an opportunity to those in the Republik of Northern Kosmet, it is a "blow" to Tadic and Jeremic, Serbia's noble leaders who will continue the good fight (albeit only diplomatically - that way no one gets killed and you get a lot of frequent flier miles to use later). Or is it? Or, are they just playing their roles for their masters?

The West knows full well the Serb conscious, and self-vicitmization, and the story of the battle of kosovo. They know the characters, they know who won and lost, and are re-playing that story here. The West has cast Tadic in the role of Lazar, and Jeremic in the role of Milos Obilic in this well-orchestrated drama; and they are playing their roles perfectly - worthy of an academy award; and the gulible Serbs are buying it; still fighting against insurmountable odds for Kosovo, a lost cause when Tadic and Jeremic were put into place to lead the Serbs into battle.

The difference between 1389 and today is that the Serbs have no Lazar or Obilic in its ranks, and "Vuk Brankovic" is leading the Serbian charge. Either way, the story ends the same.

I've set my alarm for 2510, to see if history does in fact repeat itself.

RE: The vote is rigged. No peace without true justice.


UN to rule for independent Kosovo, source
July 21, 2010 – 1:26 pm The ICJ Court will rule that Kosovo is an independent state, reports Nezavisne Novine from Bosnia.

The paper says that the ruling is the result of lobbying and the diplomatic pressure that the US has exerted on the UN.

The paper says that the judges were 8-7 in favor of Serbian position but because the Chinese judge went off sick, the Japanese one stepped in and sided with the American position, says the
paper.

The paper says that Medvedev and China’s Hu Jintao have already sent an official message to Serbia that their countries will not recognize Kosovo irrespective of the ruling.

This ruling, says Nezavisne, is due Thursday.

The paper says 3 other judges also sided with the independence opinion after US exerted its last minute pressure on them.


The vote is reported to ended up 10-4 or 9-5, the article is dead one. It was 8-7 Serbia but it was reported that three members were essentially "bribed" to change the vote.

Its not secret the US is putting full political pressure from the recent media press. Serbia resolve is now put to the test; Russia nees to hold steadfast well.

You asked for International law Jeremic, now you finally you got it. Go Kosovo!

Correction: My apologies;

"Tadic and Mirkovic"

should have been

"Tadic and Cvetkovic".

To Niall O'Doherty

I'm impressed that an 'Irish Catholic' like yourself (I'm still not convinced that you're from Ireland) has such great admiration for Serbian nationalism.
Maybe it's a about time you showed your true colours too...

I can't get over the irony of ICJ ruling. I can only imagine what it must feel like... but you deserved what you got!
If I were in your position mate I would just sleep on it and spend your time in more constructive and interesting things rather than meddling with other people's countries!

Kosovo's secession from Serbia was inevitable and everyone knows that (even though some refuse to admit). Living in Kosovo with Milosevic's administration until 1999 was as if time had stopped for us Albanians. I am glad the storm is over and I deem today's decision a good news for both Albanians and Serbs (given the fact that the issue of Kosovo will no longer be a bottleneck to Serbia's aspirations for integration into the EU). It is time for us to build neghborly relations and head separate ways. Congratulations to all of my fellow citizens and I genuinely hope that Serbia will eventually change its politics and approach towards Kosovo!

Zoran:
"Does this now allow Serbia to recognise SO and AK?"

Zoran isn't that an odd question given that Georgia - specifically the horrible little regime of Saakashvili - has stood solidly behind Serbia throughout, refusing any concession to recognising Kosovo despite (no doubt) plenty of pressure from the master in Washington. How could you be so ungracious to Milosevic's cousin?

For RS the special int'l law are the Dayton Accords and they ***DO*** prohibit a UDI, but again if somebody has doubts can bring that to the Court.
(abc123, 22 July 2010 17:22)

Dayton Accords
Article I
The Parties shall conduct their relations in accordance with the principles set forth in the United Nations Charter, as well as the Helsinki Final Act and other documents of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe. In particular, the Parties shall fully respect the sovereign equality of one another, shall settle disputes by peaceful means, and shall refrain from any action, by threat or use of force or otherwise, against the territorial integrity or political independence of Bosnia and Herzegovina or any other State.

See article one and you see a contradiction, the US actually broke Dayton by recognising Kosovo. US along with Croatia two signatories broke article 1 by using force against and/or not recognising the territorial integrity of one of the signatories through Kosovo's UDI.

"To say there is alot at stake here for the entire global order would be the understatement of the century. If the Court rules against Belgrade then a Pandora's Box will have been opened which would unleash untold and terrible consequences.
(Niall O'Doherty, 22 July 2010 13:09)"

Yeh Niall, you never know, it might provoke all kinds of oppressed peoples to get ideas about "illegal secession" from the nations they are captured inside. For example, it might lead the Irish people to declare an "illegal" UDI against their legitimate British rulers. We're writing now in 1910 what not? Predictions are that these terrible Irish "separatists", using fake arguments that they have been oppressed by Britain for hundreds of years, will be launching this UDI by about 1916-22, after which these "irredentists" will keep trying to get the part north of the Ibar as well (oops, that was, the 6 counties).

Gaining independence was the easy part. Developing a democartic state where human rights are respected, where there is equality, education law enforcment and above all creating a society that is on the same economic and moral level as the rest of europe are aspirations that will sadly never be fulfilled by the state of "Kosova" It is and will remain a dark corner of europe

'So that means that Serbs of Montenegro and RS now have the right to self determination as do the Albanians of Macedonia, Hungarians in Slovakia not to mention Transdniestr, S. Osettia and Abkhazia?'

They don't have the right to self-determination, that wasn't covered. They have the right to declare independence, and then it's simply down to how many recognitions they can buy.

"Finally the serb bloggers are revealing their true colours!!
(adrian kola, 22 July 2010 16:48)

How about your colors? Technically Kosovo could unite with Albania. Is that still the plan? Did you get approval from your US masters for that? If you did I can assure you that your European masters are not going to be happy and there may be a break in the US-EU relations on this issue. Like Tom said the Serbs in Montenegro (more than 20%) and RS (40%) can now split of and as you know 30 and 40 are still bigger than 20. No matter what the Serbs in Kosovo will never be ruled by the KLA thugs. Thre only solution will be ethnic cleansing but you know that that will mean war.

We did it! what a lovely day, lovely morning to wake up to. yes, it is true, i predicted it from day 1; frankly it was their only rational, ethical choice.

congratulations to all of my frnds and colleagues throughout Kosova, all of our frnds and allies throughout the world. a great victory for freedom, for democracy, for independence.

it's been some treacherous waters -- and more to come. but today we celebrate!

let's move forward.

thank you.

roberto
frisco

I think that the north of Kosovo should immediately recognize "Kosova" and then unilaterally declare their independence. After all, it is perfectly legal :-)

This certainly surprised to me to be honest ... I was expecting more ambiguity and other legalese speak to skew things that either side could twist for their own consumption. This, however, gave quite a blow to Serbia (given that Serbia was the initiator of all this). A bit awkward of a position for a Serb official to be in at this moment.

I don't see what else Serbia can do diplomatically after committing political and legal suicide with this stunt, apart from trying to absorb the north by sending in their military (not sure if that will play out, given that NATO most likely won't like seeing them cross the GSZ).

And to the people who keep dragging RS into this mix - things aren't as clear cut with Bosnia and RS. Remember, RS and Serbia signed on the dotted line that BiH is to remain as one (a statement repeatedly made by Serbia's head honchos; Tadic and Mirkovic, the latter doing so just yesterday). Abkhazia and S. Ossetia on the other hand - there you could have a point.

Whatever happens now, I hope things don't escalate and the fragile peace is preserved.

Well if 1244 can't stop Kosovo from being independent, Dayton can't stop RS from doing the same...
(Alex, 22 July 2010 16:11)

The Court said that 1244 does not stop Kosovo to become independent because it does not say anything about it.

But Dayton accords do. The text of the Dayton accords is not the same as the 1244, so you can't put the equal sign between the two. The Court said that 1244 does not prohibit Kosovo's UDI, did not say anything about the Dayton Accords.

Indeed the Dayton accords mandate that RS should be part of BiH. But if somebody has doubts, it can always ask the ICJ to also give an opinion on the Dayton Accords.

Many people are jumping around that the Court is setting precedents, and bla, bla, bla.

The only precedent the Court set is that ***GENERAL*** international law does not say anything about declarations of independence. Everything else was specific to the case of Kosovo.

Indeed, you could have ***SPECIAL*** international law to that effect.

For Kosovo that is 1244, but even that does not prohibit UDI, the Court said

For RS the special int'l law are the Dayton Accords and they ***DO*** prohibit a UDI, but again if somebody has doubts can bring that to the Court.

Amer, I think this tells enough to everybody:
"Kosovo UDI not in breach of intl. law"

To the leaders of Serbia,

Get your supporters together
and
1: take a leaf out of the
opposition's book.
2: recognise Northern
Kosovo and eastern strip
to Novo Brdo relinquish
Presevo.
3: recognise Rep Srpska
4: recognise Krajina under
Z4 boundaries before
genocide was commited.

If you cannot do that,

5: move aside.

It is time to be bold.

Enough multi culti Serbs with Serbs the rest with whomever they choose.
It's all legal now.

Congratulations to both Serbia and Kosovo and all of it's people. Hopefully we can take this opportunity to reconicle, move on and join The EU as good neighbors. Congratulations to Justice as well!

Finally the serb bloggers are revealing their true colours!!
(adrian kola, 22 July 2010 16:48)

Well now the Serbs of Kosmet and BiH now have the legal right to self determination. The Court has now confirmed it.

Well if 1244 can't stop Kosovo from being independent, Dayton can't stop RS from doing the same...
(Alex, 22 July 2010 16:11)

Kosovo has nothing to do with bosnia, serbia can anex whole of sarajevo land for what i care, but remember, when dealing with albanians, serbs should start to think twice before acting, we are not like bosnians, after the icj verdict, serbia deffenitely lost north mitrovica...with the multhiethnic precedent in the region, serbia will start to lose more power even inside its own state,

Serbia can not loose something that they have already lost. Kosovo, at least most parts of it, was lost long ago. Thank Milosevic for that. He was the biggest enemy of the Seriban nation. The biggest loosers in all of this is the Bosnian muslims. If independence can be applied to any territory then Serbs in Bosnia will go for it. This was the idea long ago. As I thought, in the end Serbs would either loose in Kosovo and win somewhere else or the other way around.

Resolution 1244 does not recognize Kosovo as independent so these senile judges cannot say that their opinion comply with the still valid resolution 1244. Who's next? Abkhazia, South Osetia, Basque land, Catalonia, Northern Ireland, Quebec, Republika Srpska etc. Just name it! It will be really hot summer and autumn this year!
(Bez_Cenzure, 22 July 2010 16:20)

Why do you call them senile just because ypu dont agree with their decision. Serbian politicans tried to tell the world that the next day after Kosovo declared indipendence the world would split in many different countries but noope here we are. DOOMSDAY that is all we hear from Serbia. besides you opened this can of worms not us

This ruling has solved nothing. What people fail to understand is...its not illegal for Kosovo to declare independence according to International Law. However, what violates International Law is Kosovo trying to seceed/separate from a sovergn nation like Serbia without her permission. If Quebec wanted to declare independence from the rest of canada they could but they would need the permission from the whole of Canada whether through a referendum of sorts in order to have this made legal.

Well, the court gave his opinion. Now time to move on, for all.. people's life and future are more important that notions of borders.

congratulations to Kosovo people, albanians and serbs

This is just as I suspected, and now you all know why Haradinaj was sent to the Hague yesterday. This ICJ is no different from the anti-Serb political kangaroo court that released genocidal mass murderers like Nasir Oric.
However, the good news is that Republika Srpska will soon join Serbia :), just wait and see.

Biden called Serbian president, discussed Kosovo

WASHINGTON, July 22 (Reuters) - U.S. Vice President Joe Biden called Serbian President Boris Tadic on Thursday and affirmed Washington's full support for a democratic and multi-ethnic Kosovo, the White House said.

In the conversation, ahead of the International Court of Justice's ruling on Kosovo's independence declaration, Biden reiterated the unwavering U.S. commitment to Kosovo's sovereignty and territorial integrity and urged Serbia's government to work constructively to resolve practical issues with Kosovo.

The court later ruled that Kosovo's 2008 declaration of independence did not violate international law.

-- Well no matter how you slice it, this is a major victory for Pristina. It will be interesting to read the entire ruling, but this pretty much legitimizes Kosovo's right to exist apart from the rest of Serbia. *How* Kosovo exists and what its internal mechanisms will ultimately shape up to be will no doubt be determined by further talks. But as far as I'm concerned, it's status is confirmed.
(Mike, 22 July 2010)

Thanks Mike. Levelheadedness is rarely found on this site and you provide some from time to time. Much appreciated.

Now referendum for reunification with Albania.Done deal.God bless US AND EUROPE

I think the decision is wrong. But OK...

But before people say Kosovo has won please think.

It only says that a declaration of independence cannot be prohibited by international law. OK, so then it is up to the other states to recognize this new state or not.

But if this is the case this is also true of other regions. Like Abkhazia. So now the USA can never blame Russia for breaching international law by recognizing South Ossetia and Abkahzia.

So at the end of the day the situation is: declare what you want, but you need powerful friends to 'effectuate' it.

Well, in Europe the USA is the big guy. But in the Caucasus it is Russia.

Think the Georgian president will regret this day.

Finally: I think China and US will keep on blocking Kosovo from entering UN!

SO what has changed? (Almost) nothing!

Greetings for Western EUrope!

Since it has now been defined that a "unilateral declaration" of indepedence is not against international law, does that mean that RS can separate without a referendum? Can any elected government of a province or municipality now unilateraly declare independence? What will be the consequence of this ruling? As a quebecer, it is frightening to predict the effect that this will have in the future. The last independence referendum held in 1995 failed by 0.5%. Next time the Parti Quebecois is in power they will not need to call a referendum. A UDI will suffice.

Time out everyone. Here's how I would interpret the ICJ's decision:

The ICJ's ruling was NOT that Kosovo's UDI was legal. The verdict in fact was neutral - ie. that international law simply does not have the mandate to pass judgement about UDIs by Kosovo or others. The ICJ deals with dispute between countries, not between a country and those within it seeking to secede. I admit that this was something that I didn't know previously.

In effect, the ICJ has just sent the Kosovo issue right back to the UN.

"With hindsight, this was the worst move that Serbia's politicians could have done since it actually confirmed that the UDI did not break international law.

Had they not taken this to court, Serbia could have still argued that the UDI broke international law leave it to individual contries to wonder whether that is the case or not....but now they have shot themselves in the foot.
nikshala

Yes, it was a big miscalculation on the Serbian side, shoting themselves in the foot.

If this contributes to peace and stability then I'm Santa Clause. We have hundreds of regions in the world and a couple more in the Balkans who will start the process of "liberation". RS, Norhern Koasovo, Sandzak, Presevo, Eastern Montenegro, Western Macedonia, Northern Epirus etc. This ICJ ruling is the begining of something very very bad.

It's certainly not good news, but honestly, not surprised in the least. I woke up this morning expecting the bad news, wihtout question.

We have certianly lost this battle, but the war continues regarding Kosovo. However, this ruling alongside the disregard for Serbia's borders will set the table for further conflicts across the world, starting with Spain, Montenegro, Macedonia, South West USA, South Florida, Bosnia, Croatia,..you name it.

Norhthern Kosovo..and RS...the time has come for you legal declaration of independence alongside Serbia. hmmmm...looks like Greater Serbia is within reach!

Well now the Serbs of Kosmet and BiH now have the legal right to self determination. The Court has now confirmed it.
(Niall O'Doherty, 22 July 2010 17:09)

It's not quite like that. If you want to follow K-example there is no short-cut.

When BiH and Kosova take these entities to ICJ and ask whether their UDI contravenes Int law, and when the court says no, then and only then you can use the case to your benefit

This is the proverbial nail in coffin for Serbia's claim that Kosovo's independence was Illegal. Serbia now has zero-nada-zilch arguments against Kosovo. They no longer have any political room to maneuver whatsoever. The floodgates to many other recognition have been opened wide & partition is out of the questions now. Kosovo's independence has been crystallized by this ruling.

Thank Jeremic for this. If Serbia had not requested this opinion, Serbia would be claiming ( with some legitimacy in the eyes of some) for decades to come that Kosovo was part of Serbia. Thank you very much Jeremic! I gather you will resign for this utter failure of yours?

Serbia lost the war for Kosovo militarily 11 years ago, and it has now lost the legal war.

Resolution 1244 does not recognize Kosovo as independent so these senile judges cannot say that their opinion comply with the still valid resolution 1244. Who's next? Abkhazia, South Osetia, Basque land, Catalonia, Northern Ireland, Quebec, Republika Srpska etc. Just name it! It will be really hot summer and autumn this year!
(Bez_Cenzure, 22 July 2010 16:20)

Nothing will actually happen.Doesn't matter how much Tadic & Co. like to blackmail the world. Every conflict is treat it case by case. And Serbia or Kosovo have not saying at all in any of them. The big powers know very well their areas of influence. I am waiting for the Serbian side predicting Apocalypse is coming.The world will not be the same anymore.

Don´t celebrate to early. Just wait for the explanations thats still going on.
I´m pretty sure, there are some comment about conditions and minority.

Wait a bit, think about the whole verdict andt than sit togehter and find a solution.

Welcome to the new world order,where organ snatcher,white slavery,drug pushers and terrorist are awarded for being bad.
RS time to come home..

First and foremost I personally want to thank Jeremic for having such a brilliant idea to bring the case to the ICJ. Do you realize that this decision does more than any lobbying efforts by Kosova officials. It is a step forward for Kosova but the true victory will be when the actual corrupt government of Kosova is gone. I think Jeremic can help us on this matter as well if he continues to press charges against Thaqi and co. to ICTY and send them behind the bars where they belong.

ok then ...nice win for the EU ..good job framing the question. EU has just clearly shown Serbia is not welcome in the EU as a TRUE member. If we want to be in the EU.. Serbia..remember who's your daddy!

good day for mr nikolic.

terrible day for serbian EU ambitions. terrible day for region. At the end of the day though it may be the luckiest day in modern Serbian history for Serbs...time will tell my friends

from the Associated Press: "...Serbia's ultranationalist Radical Party said the court "gravely violated" international law, and called on the government to demand an urgent session of the U.N. Security Council to end the EU peacekeeping mission in Kosovo...."

The circus is in full swing. It's not a bad decision as far as I'm concerned. OK, so declarations of independence are legal. That's all good and well but it's up to the major world powers to make it legitimate (i.e. given a UN seat by the security council).

So the path to negotiations is now open. Serbian areas remain under Serbian control while ethnic Albanians control their areas. Will Kosovo get a UN seat? I doubt it considering Serbia has a veto called Russia.

So lets wait for the circus to end and start negotiating a bright future for the whole region. There will be many secessionists throughout the world applauding this decision so interesting times lay ahead.

Does this now allow Serbia to recognise SO and AK? Does it open the path for independence in RS? How is the poor DS going to react to this decision? Will their voters turn against them? Lets wait and see. Enjoy the circus everyone.

a victory for US political pressure, weak willed judges and illegal land grabs it seems. A sad day for true justice. I only hope that this is not the catalyst for a wave of seccessionist claims. You reap what you sow!

Read my comment of a week ago! I said ICJ ruled 9-6 one abstained it´s not known if Mexico or Morroco. I was right Kosovo independence is legal according to international law.

Greetings, Albert

If that logic applies than RS can split from Bosnia and there is nothing that Dayton can do about it. In addition, the Northern part of Kosovo can join Serbia immediately. Let Presevo try to split from Serbia and join Kosovo. Today will be marked as a sad day in history and the bankruptcy of the UN. It will also mean the end of the current Serbian government and the credibility of Tadic as President. However, as history has shown many times: we will overcome and victory lies ahead in the future.

"Kosovo UDI not in breach of intl. law"

-- Well no matter how you slice it, this is a major victory for Pristina. It will be interesting to read the entire ruling, but this pretty much legitimizes Kosovo's right to exist apart from the rest of Serbia. *How* Kosovo exists and what its internal mechanisms will ultimately shape up to be will no doubt be determined by further talks. But as far as I'm concerned, it's status is confirmed.

Thsi judgement today has in full swoop nullified the UN thrown international law out the window with the scrapping of the Helsinki Agreement.

The protection of the sovereign state enshrined in international law has now been undone and can now be brought into open question by any group of state actor.

We have reverted to a law of the jungle. Many heads of states out there were preparing for the worst now have had their worst fears confirmed.

What ever happens today its good bye Bosnia-Herzegovina. The ramifications from this political ruling will be truly seismic.

The ICJ has ruled that Kosovo's independence does not violate international law.
(Mospyt, 22 July 2010 16:05)

Game set and match to Dodik. He now has the legal go ahead to call that independence referendum.

There are some very worried heads in Sarajevo and Belgrade right now.

The fun and games are about to begin. Pandora's Box has just opened.

Au revoir international law and the sovereignty of all states. Its every man for himself.

The ICJ has ruled that Kosovo's independence does not violate international law.

Resolution 1244 does not recognize Kosovo as independent so these senile judges cannot say that their opinion comply with the still valid resolution 1244. Who's next? Abkhazia, South Osetia, Basque land, Catalonia, Northern Ireland, Quebec, Republika Srpska etc. Just name it! It will be really hot summer and autumn this year!

A quick update:
the ICJ has ruled that Kosovo's declaration of independence does not violate any international laws and that the people of Kosovo have the right to self-determination!!
Eat your heart out Jeremic!

They just said it. It did not violate any laws and it is totally legal. 1244 supported the declaration
(Une, 22 July 2010 15:57)

Une, you just beat me to it and of course you are right. I just sawit on BBC News TV channel.

Rejoice, justice has prevailed.

Let's now try ad work together to build a better future for peoples of Serbia and Kosova.

God bless ...

KOSOVO VS SERBIA 10:4
What do you want more?
I hope this is the time to Serbia to understand the reality, to open the mind and to cooperate...
For a better future :)

A hundred year conflict, starting from 1912, ended today.

Congratulations to all Albanians throughout the world and special thanks to all of our supporters. Today justice has prevailed.

Now north part of the province has right to became independent.

Poeple, I guess this is "The moment of Truth" that Jeremic was talking about. Remeber http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2010&mm=07&dd=15&nav_id=68440yyyy=2010&mm=07&dd=15&nav_id=68440

Republika Srpska, what are you waiting for?? :))

Before the serb camp and politicians start attacking the ICJ for being biased and politically motivated, I will ask this question:

If Serbia believed that this court could be politically motivated and biased, then why did it submit the request in the first place? You cannot gamble and then ask for you money back when you lose.

I did not know what the ruling would be since I have no legal knowledge and reading all the 'analysis' by 'experts' telling us that the ruling will be muddled, complex, ambiguous,...I really thought it was going to be pointless listening to the ruling live on radio.

But I have to say, the ruling could not have been any clearer than it was.

With hindsight, this was the worst move that Serbia's politicians could have done since it actually confirmed that the UDI did not break international law.

Had they not taken this to court, Serbia could have still argued that the UDI broke international law leave it to individual contries to wonder whether that is the case or not....but now they have shot themselves in the foot.

People should calm down. The ruling is hardly earth shattering. What is interesting is that the ICJ deliberatly stayed away from the issue of soverignty and seccesion, which is the real question. Nothing in this decision at all. I only see the status quo remain.

The court just declared that the declaration of independence was legal and in full compliance with international law. They also stated that resolution 1244 does not prohibit such a declaration. The court's opinion, in contrast to the many predictions, was clearly in favor of Pristina's position. Congratulations to the supporters of Kosovo.

Could not have dreamed a better result, this exceeded our expectations. Hey Jeremich, are you sure you are not on our payroll :) ? Thank you Serbia for this initiative, you have done more for us by taking this to Hague than our corrupt and inadequate politicians ever could.

Like I have always said, Kosovo's independence isn't against international law.

Serbia has failed!

Kosovo has won!

Yes, this is a true victory on your own garden Serbia, you called for the inter. court and now you're harvesting "the results", I know the truth hurts, but Kosovo is a true independent country, now with support of the inter. court!

Congratz to all Kosovars!

Thank you Serbia for giving us the platform to prove to the world that the independent of Kosova is not illegal. Seriously, thank you. I can't think of a better term to describe my feelings.

How are you Mr.Tadic to explain that the Albanians have no rights, you came from the Urals and there is your place. So gooo.

They just said it. It did not violate any laws and it is totally legal. 1244 supported the declaration
(Une, 22 July 2010 15:57)

Yes, indeed - I did read it on the Serbian site. Well, that's the life. Bring on VS as soon as you are strong enough.

Looks like Tadic and jeremic need to take classes about international law...maybe Ahmadeijan,Khadafi,Putin...

Serbia came so far only to ask the Court the wrong question. Anyway as long as it doesn't say anything about it being a special case, which it shouldn't since the question was about the declaration, Serbia will keep the north and in the long term maybe win RS, and the main beneficiaries will be Russia.

Come on now Dodik, break free!!!!

Well if 1244 can't stop Kosovo from being independent, Dayton can't stop RS from doing the same...
(Alex, 22 July 2010 16:11)

Finally the serb bloggers are revealing their true colours!!

"International law does not have an active provision that limits independence declarations"

It took them 2 years to figure this out???

Just what everyone expected. No clear definition since it only deals with one aspect of the UDI. So, what's next? Not much! Busniness as usual. North Kosovo under Serbian influence and south Kosovo under Albanian.

So much for a ruling that both sides could claim victory.

"It's a specific question for a specific case an it deserves a specific answer. "

You take your chances when you go to court - especially the ICJ. If the judges decide that the question asked wasn't properly formulated - if the drafters didn't ask the right question - they'll rewrite the question and answer that one.

As for the business about the Chinese and the Japanese judges - the Chinese judge who originally heard the case withdrew because of bad health and was replaced by another Chinese. This new judge cannot vote, because she didn't participate in the hearings. The Japanese judge, as the president, apparently had a "golden vote" - meaning he could vote in place of the Chinese judge (so as to prevent a possible 7:7 tie, probably). He simply decided not to take advantage of this power.

The American judge who is leaving in September is also being replaced by a woman, BTW. It seems even the ICJ is trying to become more diverse these days.

Sadly, it appears the ICJ either bowed to political pressure or just didn't have the chops. I have one suggestion for Belgrade.... let it go, absorb your displaced citizens and let the corrupt powers in Kosovo self destruct. Your responsibilities to the rest of your people are far too important to ignore while continuing a no win battle over Kosovo. 2 decades have set you too far back to continue to waste resources while your people through the rest of the country struggle.

Well if 1244 can't stop Kosovo from being independent, Dayton can't stop RS from doing the same...

what a perfect forecast that I did. It was the only logical conclusion. See link below from 1 week ago in the middle of the page:

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/comments.php?nav_id=68440#hrono

RE; ICJ was influenced.

The declaration of "Genocide in Kosovo" , a completed falsehood and absurdity takes away the credibility of its ruling. This can only be from the primary influence of the US to make such an accusation and untrue statement.

"he court just declared that the declaration of independence was legal and in full compliance with international law.....
(Jimmy, 22 July 2010 16:24)"

No, they ruled that it was not illegal. There is a big difference. They said that there are no prohibitions on declarations of independence and therefore it did not violate international law. Kind of a cowardly way of saying "we didn't want to deal with this and are not going to shoot ourselves in the foot for the next time it comes up..."

the ICJ has ruled that Kosovo's declaration of independence does not violate any international laws and that the people of Kosovo have the right to self-determination!!
Eat your heart out Jeremic!
(adrian kola, 22 July 2010 16:06)

So that means that Serbs of Montenegro and RS now have the right to self determination as do the Albanians of Macedonia, Hungarians in Slovakia not to mention Transdniestr, S. Osettia and Abkhazia?

They just got the legal go ahead.

Oh boy, this will be fun.

Zorane,
i think bganon is a male, unless Mrs Jelica is such a great fan of football, as bganon is.

Now, i know we are all holding our breaths on this verdict, nevertheless i dont think the ruling will have any impact.

USA will insist on getting the full of Kosovo, and Serbia will insist on not giving it.

(oh i forgot to say, and the albanians will be still watching passively as they do today)

Conflicts are where the money is,case and point war in avghanistan where contractors are making sure that war goes on..US consuls from yugo wars who bought the best properties in croatia for nothing and decide to retire there.Albright and her son with cell phone deals in Kosovo.
So we beleive they would keep this conflict for as long as they can after all Serbia is becoming super power that in once was..
Hungry they are,but we have to make sure they`ll never play us with the same cards again..And with the help of China and Russia will make sure albanians stay where they are.

They just said it. It did not violate any laws and it is totally legal. 1244 supported the declaration

I was searching for a leaked verdict and found this on the B92 blogs:
[link]/

Basically the claim is that the UDI contravenes international law, but is legitimate as Serbia committed genocide against Kosovo Albanians.

If the ICJ came out with that verdict it would be a firmly political decision. Not even the Hague has delivered that verdict so I woudl doubt that the ICJ would rule for genocide which clearly did not happen.

Also the ramifications of such a verdict would unleash new instability across the globe, tear up the Helsinki Agreement and bring into question the very sovereignty of all states, big or small.

Cant see it happening.

I was searching for a leaked verdict and found this on the B92 blogs:
[link]/
(bganon, 22 July 2010 11:44)
--
Is that you? Jelica Greganovic http://blog.b92.net/user/4535/Jelica-Greganovic/

The question to the court was if the UDI is leagle according to international law and not if the pandoras box will open or not. It's a specific question for a specific case an it deserves a specific answer. So please people don't mice apple with oranges.

I'll be amazd if Serbia wins this case with the amount of pressure the US has been exerting and especially after the Chinese judge was replaced by the Japanese one which gve the "pro-Kosova" camp 8 out of 15 judges from countries recognising Kosovo. And if Serbia lose this case then it'll be nearly impossible for Serbia to block Kosovo independence. The interesting part will be if they say that Kosovo is indeed a unique case. This is something which i believe would be hard to argue, so a ruling will open pandora's box.
(Radoslav, 22 July 2010 11:34)
Go to the ICJ website the China judge was replaced by Xue Hanqin China on June 29,2010. The judge from Japan has been in place since has been on the court since 2003 and the current President since 2009.
It was a nice attempt to skew the facts though.

I must say that if true this is a smack in the face for Serbia, and a deliberate one by the powers that support independence, a punishment for bringing the case if you like.
(bganon, 22 July 2010 11:44)

Interesting link and indeed, this court shouldn't determine the fact of genocide. As far as I remember, the question of genocide was already settled with negative result, right?

I would not rush at this moment but few times in the past I gave a hint-hint, what is the most useful argument in the court. At least as Heretz Yisrael does (correctly) believe: T-90

http://www.enemyforces.net/tanks/t90.htm

is an excellent argument, but Merkava-4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZvLkLaVfNw

is more balanced for the local conditions in Middle East.

Sorry to by cynical (as usual). The stronger dog multiplies. I think, Serbia would be happy with a (lot of) such arguments. No one needs ICJ if there is a lot of Merkavas. ;-)

This is a very interesting piece from the Guardian this morning -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jul/21/kosovo-serbia-international-court-rule

The last 4 paragraphs in the article are very telling -

Among those expecting a ruling largely in Serbia's favour is Dr Stefan Wolff, professor of international security at Birmingham University. "My personal view is that the court will say it is not in accordance with international law. It is likely to take a very narrow view of the arguments."

Wolff believes a judgment in favour of Kosovo would make it more difficult for the UN to manage conflicts, especially in the transitional management of disputed territories.

James Ker-Lindsay, a Balkans expert at the London School of Economics, is more emphatic: "The legality of Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence is the most important case ever to come before the international court of justice.

"The opinion of the court could radically change the way we treat separatist groups in future. If it finds in favour of Kosovo, the floodgates could be opened for a whole raft of new states to emerge. No one wants to see this happen."

To say there is alot at stake here for the entire global order would be the understatement of the century. If the Court rules against Belgrade then a Pandora's Box will have been opened which would unleash untold and terrible consequences.

ali g8r, hehehe, nice one. I hope Serbian FM will not leave as soon as he seas his counterpart from Kosovo, as it happened in the past.

I was searching for a leaked verdict and found this on the B92 blogs:
http://blog.b92.net/text/15692/Nezvanicno-vec-poznata-presuda-ICJ-o-nezavisnosti-Kosova/

Basically the claim is that the UDI contravenes international law, but is legitimate as Serbia committed genocide against Kosovo Albanians.

I must say that if true this is a smack in the face for Serbia, and a deliberate one by the powers that support independence, a punishment for bringing the case if you like.

Although I know that war crimes were committed in Kosovo, nothing the Hague has come up with has shown genocide, in the full meaning of the word - not the political use of the word. Clearly ethnic cleasning and war crimes took place but how would it be possible for this court to establish that genocide took place?

Thus my conclusion is this was the only justification that could be used to allow UDI. If the argument stayed on the factual war crimes and ethnic cleansing it would set much lighter weight to allow the creation of a nation state. And yes, it will be interesting to read the minority report from dissenting countries.

Of course this isn't a complete victory for an independent Kosovo either, however, its certainly a greater defeat for Serbia.
Not only would Serbia essentially lose this decision, but Serbia now stands condemned of a new charge - of genocide on Kosovo.

Thus Serbia will press hugely for all options to resolve status offering concessions not heard before, talking about division of Kosovo etc.

Now, I don't know if all of this is cheap talk, we will soon find out, but this verdict changes nothing in the sense that we (Serbs and Albanians) still need to come to agreement on Kosovo. The facts on the ground speak loudest in these matters as we know from past experience.

I'll be amazd if Serbia wins this case with the amount of pressure the US has been exerting and especially after the Chinese judge was replaced by the Japanese one which gve the "pro-Kosova" camp 8 out of 15 judges from countries recognising Kosovo. And if Serbia lose this case then it'll be nearly impossible for Serbia to block Kosovo independence. The interesting part will be if they say that Kosovo is indeed a unique case. This is something which i believe would be hard to argue, so a ruling will open pandora's box.

"The reading of the opinion would be held at 15:00 CET. There would be officials from Belgrade and Priština in attendance, along with ambassadors from all the countries that participated in the public debate of the issue. "B92

Congrats :D, Kosovo and Serbia under an equal roof. If the Serb polis are not full blown hypocrites, than they already accepted the independence of Kosovo