ICJ to announce Kosovo ruling on July 22

If the ICJ sees this Albanian UDI as anything but going against international law, then any minority group, in any nation in the world that wants to claim independence, will have carte blanche to do so. There have been civil conflicts in many nations around the world, yet the solution did not result in the division of land, imposed by an outside power, to end the conflict. If the ICJ is to retain any amount of honor and respect, it must protect what keeps this world from being a free-for-all, international law.

No, JohnC. It doesn't work like that. The majority view prevails. The dissenting opinions provide a rationalisation of why the judge in question disagrees, but the majority view wins the day. The US Supreme Court works the same way. If the Court says something thegovernment doesn't like, thegovernment can't just say that it rejects it because there are dissenting views, nor does it weaken the applicability of the finding. Again, the majority view stands as the final view and must be respected, even if the dissenting views are more in line with one's own views.

"f the ICJ sees this Albanian UDI as anything but going against international law, then any minority group, in any nation in the world that wants to claim independence, will have carte blanche to do so. There have been civil conflicts in many nations around the world, yet the solution did not result in the division of land, imposed by an outside power, to end the conflict. If the ICJ is to retain any amount of honor and respect, it must protect what keeps this world from being a free-for-all, international law."

That is why it is generally expected that the decision will be primarily favorable for Serbia. The ICJ does not want to open the floodgates for mass secessions around the globe. And since it is merely advisory and not binding it opens things up for further discussion and negotiation, which is what the United Nations has wanted all along. From a practical standpoint, all Kosovo will never again be a fully governed part of Serbia again. Yet, it's clear that all of Kosovo cannot be a fully independent and separate country. Either some level of independent government will have to be agreed to or a reallocation of borders will be necessary in order to resolve the situation. And if the current leaders in Kosovo refuse any type of compromise after the ICJ has rendered their opinion, they will likely lose the support of many countries that have already recognized their declaration of independence. On top of that, the UN will never allow them to become members if they refuse to go along with the opinion of the UN's court.

Times up.
Soon it will be official.
The only option for the albanians is back to the negotiating table, or continue to be a criminal black hole.

RIP Kosovo independence!

We have seen Evil temporarily triumphant in Kosovo and Virtue and Truth persecuted, crucified and slain. But Eternal Justice marches surely and swiftly and will one day reach Kosovo too.

Danilo - stop being so tedious! This is becoming boring now!

Every time it is the same nonsense from one or other KA here that there is no such thing as international law and that it is not like domestic law. Seriously, we have been through this too many times to go over it again. I wish you would just grow up. International law exists and there are bodies capable of holding states to account for their actions, even in the concept of punishment is different from domestic law. If this were not the case then the ECJ, ECHR, ICTY, ICC would be utterly meaningless.

Anyway, believe what you want, but know this: if the ICJ does rule against the UDI watch how fast countries that support it press for new talks so that they are not seen to be ignoring the opinion of the world's most important judicial body.

I'll leave you to ponder that.

The day of humiliation for the Albanians and the west is coming.Thursday Serbian diplomacy will triumph over the american empire.

The ICJ cannot give a ruling that contradicts the Helsinki Final Act where it written that secession from a state is not legal without the express agreement of the state in question.

I'm sure that the ICJ will say something along the lines of nations can declare independence or the right to self-determination but within the existing framework of international law. Extra-judicial recognitions of such a declared territory are just that - they fall outside the established law and conventions (HFA).

Otherwise the ICJ is opening up an established legal precedent for the dismemberment of the nation state, and that affects the whole world.

I am neither Serb nor Albanian, but I most agree with IluvAlbanians. A country's right to govern and remain sovereign is directly correlated to that country's ability to protect its citizens' life, liberty, and self-determination. This is the social contract that, in moral principle, allows one group to govern (or have power) over another.

I do not agree with Patrik. The case of Kosovo isn't being considered in a light fashion giving "anyone carte blanche" to declare their independence based on a fading whim.

The marginalization dehumanization of Albanian people by Serbs can be verified over centuries. The acts during the wars are almost too painful to look at. I honestly do not know what the brief looks like, but I think this will be the argument. Serbs consider the UDI an act stubbornness; Albanians see separation as an act of survival.

There was a time I hoped for the partition of Kosovo. This seemed like a reasonable proposition and there was a natural boundary with the river. I think that time is also lost. No one wants another Cyprus and Serbia lost all political credibility when Djindjic was assassinated and war criminals have either been found in Belgrade or not turned over at all.

We can all hypothesize. Fortunately the decision will be soon now. And whatever the "majority" opinion is, that is the one the world will hear. While not technically binding, that will be it. I believe it is in everyone's best interest to move on.

This question is for K albanians only;
What will happen if the ICJ says that the UDI was not according to international law and is considered null and void and 10-15 countries redraw their recognitions? Please do not re-formulate the question, just answer please.

A day after the ICJ decision on the July 27, 2010, Kosovo will be bombarded with new recognitions.

The fax machine must be monitored and supplied with papers continously to keep up with the forthcoming recognitions.

By the end of September as Sonja Biserko said recently we will be accepted as newest country on earth by the UN, thus avioding the Swiss-style reluctance to be a UN member for sometime, even though we can afford it because anyhow we are independent.

The icj's existence is based on one people's/nation's evident,and God given natural law to proclaim independence from any group who has shown itself incapable of keeping their word to follow the social contract, as explained by John Locke.
In the matter of Serbians vs. Albanians, ever since 1825, Serbian leaders have done their best to exterminate the Muslim members of the Balkans; which includes a large portion of the Albanian population. Milosevic's regime was just another explicit drop in that historical line of leaders who wished and enacted crimes of destruction of the Albanian population in the Balkans. The time has come for the fresh winds of change to blow away the ashes of inherited genes of hatred against the Albanians of the Balkans and let them have their eternity in the sun as an sovereign and internationally recognized independent member of nations on this earth.

"Even though the court is expected to give a clear opinion on the matter, Varadi said that if the decision was not unanimous, the individual judges who did not agree with the ruling would be stating their own opinions on the issue.

However, the ICJ council makes its decision based on the majority of votes from the judges, which makes the decision official, but not obligating or legally binding in any way, though Varadi said that it would have "political weight"."

With other words, it is possible that we will have a mixed outcome where some favors and some doesn't favor Kosovo's independence. And since we are dealing only with an advisory opinion, the "political weight" will be even weaker than suggested here.

Sounds for me that this is going to happen. We will have a divided vote for an advisory opinion leaving this issue back to the countries who recognize or don't recognize Kosovo. With other words, nothing new, except that Serbia fired its last bullet.

nikshala:

I see you learn well from the propagandist experts. It's ok, we know the truth, that your whole plan from day 1 was to steal kosmet and ethnically cleanse all Serbs from their homeland. Tell me how many Serbs are living in Pristina today?

Dear balkan neighbours,
Kosova is independent no matter what! You (and nobody) can turn that around anymore.

You can not cleam Kosova because you have build churches there. It would be the same if the Arabic world would be building moskes in Europe and claim after some centuries this is "our" land.

It is also not sufficiant because you had lost a war in Kosova (which was an army of the whole balkan-people, including Albanians, Macedoniens, Bulgarij, Greek and lots of mercenarie like German, ...). This would mean the same as Napoleon has lost his war in Waterloo (Belgium) and saying that this is now French Homeland or when Germany has lost his war in Stalingrad and claim that this is now their homeland (?).

Serbs do come from far after the Karpats (Roemenia) into the deep of Russia steps.

The Albanians (Ilyriers) were not only in Kosova first but throughout the whole of the balkans and Southern Italy.

We are now where we are and we need to get along together as good neighbours.

It is better to have a good neighbour than a far friend.

Peace and rest to the Balkans.

Tung
Kim

I suggest B92 works overtime next thursday and posts all the comments of our serbian brothers and sisters celebrating justice. This is the day of truth,justice will be done. The lies of Albanians and their masters will be exposed. I believe that the smart diplomacy of Tadic and Jeremic will pay off.Jeremic reinforces my believes,he said yesterday that according to his sources the verdict will favor the serbian side. Hang on brothers,victory will be ours.Get ready to party.Pyrros bring some ouzo.

@ Staff.

In that scenario, we Albanians are going to beg belgrade to take us back.We miss the paradise that we had when Serbia ruled Kosovo.

If ICJ sides with Serbia, this could also set a precedent since it will give the green light an reassurance to any country that has similiar problems that they can freely start killing and ethnicly cleanse their citizens that want to break away because there will be no consequences.

In many ways, this I like a criminal asking protection under law and human rights, after committing the worst crimes to his victim and having no disregard for the law when it suited his goals.

Look the serbs are trying to lecture us about "international law"...something that doesn't exist. Where was international law when you butchered Albanians in Kosovo, Bosnians, croatians, and other nationalities?

I'm so glad this is coming to an end. I love how serb camp thinks the ICJ is going to play in their favor..what are you 6 years old? The ICJ will rule in no-one's favor.

Tadic, Bog, Oliver ivanovic, and Tadic it's time for you to get thrown out of office. Say goodbye to your jobs as of July 22nd...I'm guessing the govt might fall say mid Aug?

Zoti - I hardly need lessons on the difference between the ICJ and the US Supreme Court! My point was simple: to illustrate that a dissenting view is not an alternative reading that can be used if you don't agree with the prevailing view. The majority opinion holds. You obviously didn't bother to read the context of the comment.

As for the argument that the ICJ opinion is not binding, that is true in a technical sense but we all know that it will have tremendous weight. As I have said several times over the past few days, if the EU and US choose to ignore the opinion of the ICJ then they will lose all credibility on the international stage. Any future demands that others should adhere to international law will simply righ hollow. The opinion is far more important than they are letting on.

As for not caring about international law, that hardly surprises me. This is the usual response from KAs. Has it never struck you that there is a very good reason EULEX had to be sent to Kosovo?

No, JohnC. It doesn't work like that. The majority view prevails. The dissenting opinions provide a rationalisation of why the judge in question disagrees, but the majority view wins the day. The US Supreme Court works the same way. If the Court says something thegovernment doesn't like, thegovernment can't just say that it rejects it because there are dissenting views, nor does it weaken the applicability of the finding.
(Jim, 14 July 2010)

I hope you realize there's a crucial difference between the ICJ and SCOTUS: The ICJ's opinion is not legally bidning, being that it is advisory, whereas SCOTUS's is.

As an Albanian I couldn't care less about the ICJ opinion as it serves only one purpose: to placate the Serb public opinion. If it is in Serbia's favor the public will feel vindicated but Kosova will remain independent. If it's not then it will pave the way for Serbia's eventual recognition whihc might take years even decades.

Howeevr as I said we simply do not care what Serbia does. Sure it'd be nice to get recognized by Serbia but who's de-facto controlling Kosova is more important to us.

"What will happen if the ICJ says that the UDI was not according to international law and is considered null and void and 10-15 countries redraw their recognitions?
(Staff, 14 July 2010 20:50)

Mr or Mrs Staff,

Let me answer your question in a very simple way. THERE WOULD BE NO RETURN OF KOSOVO under Serbia's soverignity under no circumstances.

I tell you why. Firstly, that would be an insult to the victims of Kosovo war.

Secondly, Serbia never has had an intention in honouring the Court's Opinion if it goes against Serbia's expectaction. I say that taking into account President Tadic repetitive statements " that will not recognise Kosovo independence".

As your question was a straight question I would like to give you a straigh answer. If Serbia did not REALLY intend to honour Court's Opinion why should the Kosovo Albanians act differently. The paradox is that it was Serbia who approached the ICJ. I think that Serbia's intention to approach to ICJ was not because it cares about international law but PURELY how to stop further recognitions of Kosovo independence. The very last thing tell me what is Serbia doing to apeal to Kosovo Albanian to accept a return under Serbia's sovereignity? I hope that I answered your questions.

This question is for K albanians only;
What will happen if the ICJ says that the UDI was not according to international law and is considered null and void and 10-15 countries redraw their recognitions? Please do not re-formulate the question, just answer please.
(Staff, 14 July 2010 20:50)

Then K-Albanians will build an ark and all 2 million of them will move to Moon. That's a promise to you!

Zoti - As you don't even appear to know that EULEX is a rule of law mission - hence my comment - and not a peacekeeping or security force (tasks which are covered by KFOR) it would appear that your credibility to comment with any seriousness on anything to do with Kosovo appears to be pretty much zero.

Thanks, Kate.

This question is for K albanians only;
What will happen if the ICJ says that the UDI was not according to international law and is considered null and void and 10-15 countries redraw their recognitions? Please do not re-formulate the question, just answer please.
(Staff, 14 July 2010 20:50)

You are a victim of modern-day media discourse, without a clue as to the substance of issues you refer to. K-Alb based the act of independence on their God given right to life and existence which as shown in history has been repeatedly denied and/or violated by Serbian state.

Many of the countries that are nowadays sovereign 'appeared' on the world's political map long before there was any 'international law' or even the UN. So to suggest that Kosovo's independence cannot be legitimate given this court objections (which might be only partly so) is to take a naive interpretation of how international relations function. Int'l law is an array of interests (simplistically said, of course) which, when there's no convergence, it is 'violated' repeatedly.

Kosovo's claim to statehood, amongst many valid claims, should be primarily anchored on the 'moral argument' of widespread state-sponsored killings which made Serbia's continued claim to sovereignty over Kosovo an untenable position. Note that the US's declaration of independence, long before there was any modern-day int'l law or an int'l org like the UN was based primarily on the idea of UK's colonial, repressive policy.

But, speaking of int'l law: how come Serbia consistently claims coverage by int'l law over its Kosovo sovereignty claim, when this same law was repeatedly violated through the commission of unprecedented war crimes? What part of int'l law sanctions this kind of behavior?

In a game of hockey, baseball or football: a final score of 8 to 7 means the team with 8 goals wins. Same goes with the ICJ, the side that gets the support of at least eight judges wins the advisory ruling.

The ruling will be vague.
Both sides will proclaim political victory.

In the end, it will favor Kosovo more than Serbia simply because the ruling will state that UDI was not illegal or because Kosovo was a special case.
New recognitions will come.
The usual 5 suspects will not recognize.

The pro-UDI states are so confident and stuffed up from their media spin and power Smorgasbord that they can't even contemplate that the ICJ won't fall under their boot.

This is not just about Kosovo. It is about whether true international law still exists to protect us all or whether even the highest court in the world has now been tainted by political influence.

What will it say about the UN if the very resolutions drawn up by its Security Council can be bypassed and stamped on by the clearly illegal issue of a UDI? Hostilities in Kosovo had ceased almost a decade earlier, full autonomy had been offered by the sovereign state, so-called 'negotiations' were run by someone who was openly biased, and the province was (and is) an international protectorate administered by the UN.

None of this forms a solid basis for any single ethnic group to legally declare independence.

Not to mention the systematic removal and trashing of Serbian culture and history and the terrorism of Serbian and other communities before the very eyes of a complacent and media controlled world. This should have brought about new negotiations already, instead of which a blind eye has been turned.

I would like to know why the American judge resigned - was it because of political interference, or was it because he couldn't influence other judges? It would be interesting to find out.

I truly hope that the court's opinion on the 22nd goes in favour of Serbia. International law does not need to be disrespected any further, and the UN should not be blatantly disregarded – it would be very dangerous. Far more dangerous than having to deal with the fall-out from upsetting the Kosovo Albanians while getting them back to the negotiating table.

By the way, great comments on this thread, Jim.

This question is for K albanians only;
What will happen if the ICJ says that the UDI was not according to international law and is considered null and void and 10-15 countries redraw their recognitions? Please do not re-formulate the question, just answer please.
(Staff, 14 July 2010 20:50)
I’m not here to represent Albanians, though I am Albanian. This is only my personal respond. First of all your question is very hypothetical. The ICJ may give its opinion in favor or against UDI, but in no way consider it null and void. So, therefore I think you should rephrase your question to comply with the issue and original request made to ICJ. So, my final answer is that nothing will happen, at least not anything close to what you are alluding to with your hypothetic question.
A question to you. What will happen if ICJ says that Declaration of Independence was not in breach with Int. law?

"This question is for K albanians only;
What will happen if the ICJ says that the UDI was not according to international law and is considered null and void and 10-15 countries redraw their recognitions? Please do not re-formulate the question, just answer please.
(Staff, 14 July 2010 20:50)"

What would happen if one you day woke up and realized you had wings and could fly?

Can you answer that question without reformulating it?

Since we're speaking hypothetically I will answer your question. Nothing would happen.
It would extend the amount of time it would take to join the UN and probably would hurt foreign investments for several years.

Who would by stupid enough to try to take that away?

What will happen once ICJ finds that Albanians in Kosovo had every right to declare independence?

I'm sorry you find me "tedious".

Nor have I ever said "international law doesn't exist". I have pointed out a few times that it's an ambiguous term meaning different things in different contexts.

What's 'tedious' is Serbs' largely adolescent understanding of politics.

"This question is for K albanians only;
What will happen if the ICJ says that the UDI was not according to international law and is considered null and void and 10-15 countries redraw their recognitions? Please do not re-formulate the question, just answer please.
(Staff, 14 July 2010 20:50)

Answer: Unification with the Republic of Albania.

Kim,

Fortunately only the UN can deceide about Kosovo. And greetings from EU! Kosovo can never enter as it is not a state!

the only solution is for Albanian army to march through pristina, mitrovica and presevo....we are all tired of this multiethnicity non sense, our people simply can not live together, now that we are getting those upgraded american planes, it will be much easier.
(sabaton, 15 July 2010 09:37)

I really hope you are a Serb in disguise who is trying to make Albanians look bad. Albanian army in Kosmet? In Serbia proper? Buahhahahahahaahahaha!!!

It’s extremely doubtful that ICJ would deny freedom to a nation and favour the aggressor who not only deported a million, killed 10000, but also burned their homes! If that happens, then, that court is the biggest enemy of Freedom!

The decision is made. 10 Judges in favor of Independence 5 against! It´s not known if Mexico or Morroco has joined the already decided 9. I was always sure that 9 judges would never go against the position of their respected governments!

Greetings from Costa Rica!

The term 'ethnic cleansing' was first used to describe the driving out of Serbs from Kosovo before the time of Milosevic. There is no moral high ground for Albanians who have pursued a mono-ethnic ambition for a long time. The udi is just a continuation of that aggression and is not a suitable solution.

Also, Milosevic is gone. It is racist to continue to label Serbia as if he were still there. In the modern world things do change - and a Serbia capable of being in the EU is also a Serbia capable of ruling Kosovo properly.

In fact, the agreement of 1244, although signed under duress, contains the appropriate solution. Strong autonomy within the territory of Serbia.

The current situation is not a udi, it is a protectorate status. The ICJ cannot give credence to the udi because it does not actually exist. What we have is government by the UN and other bodies that allows Pristina certain powers that are not actually able to be exercised over the whole of the territory. The udi is not established and so should not be legalised meaningfully under the current circumstances.

Matters like the Helsinki act require that agreements be made in circumstances like this. What we currently have is a western over-reaction that is too impositional and not suitable for producing a solution that will stand for all time. Hopefully there will now be more account taken of Serbia's point of view and a sensible agreement can be reached.

Zoti - As you don't even appear to know that EULEX is a rule of law mission - hence my comment - and not a peacekeeping or security force (tasks which are covered by KFOR) it would appear that your credibility to comment with any seriousness on anything to do with Kosovo appears to be pretty much zero.
(Jim, 15 July 2010)

Potato potahto. I hope you realize EULEX is the successor to UNMIK and the EULEX police coordinates its efforts with KFOR especially in the troubled North where Serb are harbored.

Do you think EULEX would be necessary had Serbia recognized our indepedence. I don't see an EU police force in Montenegro after they declared their independence.

As for my credibilty I am Albanian and have more credibiltiy to comment on Kosova's internal matters than you, or any other Serb here. You are just a momentary nuisance that soon will be rid of.

I suggest B92 works overtime next thursday and posts all the comments of our serbian brothers and sisters celebrating justice. This is the day of truth,justice will be done. The lies of Albanians and their masters will be exposed. I believe that the smart diplomacy of Tadic and Jeremic will pay off.Jeremic reinforces my believes,he said yesterday that according to his sources the verdict will favor the serbian side. Hang on brothers,victory will be ours.Get ready to party.Pyrros bring some ouzo.
(CCCC, 14 July 2010 20:42)

Hold fast my friend. It is a bit like leading 1-0 in the Cup final with 6 minutes to go. When the refere blows the whistle and the 1-0 is confirmed, then Serbs and supporters of Serbia can celebrate. It is not over yet but you have got to take your hat off to Vuk, he has done a sterling job. He has done his best, now it is up to the judges to decide.

Alot is at stake.

As for not caring about international law, that hardly surprises me. This is the usual response from KAs. Has it never struck you that there is a very good reason EULEX had to be sent to Kosovo?
(Jim, 14 July 2010)

My understanding is that EULEX is there to protect Albanians in case of the eventual attack by Serbia if there were no international force presence in the Republic of Kosova. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Spare me the lecture on int'l law. Jeremic stated soon after the case was brought by Serbia in front of the ICJ panel that a decision against Serbia would not be binding. If that's not hypocritical I don't know what is.

The word "If" in analytical terminology is defined as likely or highly likely.

I feel sorry for the UN in the region, they are about to become the reason of hate.

We all know that , whatever the result may be, neither beograd will reckognise kosovo nor pristina will turn back...eventually this icj was a loss of time ...so the only solution is for Albanian army to march through pristina, mitrovica and presevo....we are all tired of this multiethnicity non sense, our people simply can not live together, now that we are getting those upgraded american planes, it will be much easier.

What will happen if the ICJ says that the UDI was not according to international law and is considered null and void and 10-15 countries redraw their recognitions? Please do not re-formulate the question, just answer please.
(Staff, 14 July 2010 20:50)

Answer: Unification with the Republic of Albania.
(Zoti, 15 July 2010 05:18)

Brilant Zoti.

I hope ICJ will push Kosova towards Albania where it naturally belongs.

We will have to show gratitude again to Serbia for their assist: our best (unintentional) ally.

Albanian Parliament until 2WW was electing representatives of Kosova as well.

It was the idiot communists that give up of Kosova in the name of their idiot ideology bealiving that they can negotiate with Serbian communists a fair outcome.

It was Enver Hoxha's and Fadil Hoxhas partizans that liberated Kosova and withdrow in the name of communism. Idiots.

Kosova is was and will always be ALBANIA.

"If the Court says something thegovernment doesn't like, thegovernment can't just say that it rejects it because there are dissenting views"

Of course, this analogy breaks down on the international level as there is no "the government"

As for my credibilty I am Albanian and have more credibiltiy to comment on Kosova's internal matters than you, or any other Serb here. You are just a momentary nuisance that soon will be rid of.
(Zoti, 15 July 2010 17:42)
=================
OHG, How do you plant to do that?
Seriously, I really want to know.

Just visit Kosovo once and you'll know!

ps. Red and Black flags everywhere!
(Hekuran, 16 July 2010 12:22)

What do you red and black flags have to do with Kosovo? Are ye all anarchists?

All of you who post the UN or EULEX do not care what you think. It is decided what is in the best interest of all. Kosova will never join the EU because 5 EU members say no. If Russia and China decides to toss you guys under the bus then you won't make the UN so status unresolved. NO major investments, NO jobs and not a chance of success. What is there to get from Kosovo? The mines in trepca are so tied up in courts you won't profit from it and bad thing is it is in the North. Now my question is this to all, will the Kosovo albanians risk war to be free? Hell no, and don't think as a refugee you can run to the EU looking for help. If you cause the war you suffer the consquences. You want the UN out, well again if war comes and the albanians caused it then you will go crying to the UN for help and they will turn there backs on them just like you have on them now because it did not agree with your agenda. Carla del ponte was a champion at once but when she decided to pursue the "Yellow House" case she was nothing and because it did not go along with your agenda. 2004 was a hard lesson and 2010 will be another.

to CCCC,

wish you very good luck since you seam to blindly trust your leaders. i do not think there is poing to be a party so ask pyros to hold on to his ouzo.

(Abiline, 16 July 2010 03:43)

Meagre consolation Abiline.

Hoxha’s and Fadil’s partisans had a firm control over Kosova since they liberated it.

But instead of focusing on their own land and guarantee that the Bujan conference agreement (of a free referendum in which Kosovar’s will express freely their will if they want to be part of Yugo or Albania) will be implemented they diverted their army into north to fight for the communism.

Hoxha send his troops up to Sarajevo and Fadi up to Trieste (my grandfather was on of those partisans) instead of keeping firmly under control Kosova as they had it.

Of course if you divert your limited resources somewhere else then the Serbian domination over -Kosova is easy and kiss good by the Bujan agreement- as it happened.

Then as meagre consolation you get an autonomy or “foundation...” as you say.

That is same as if today Thaci agrees on a Confederation with Serbia. So tomorrow someone can say: well yes it was UCK and Thaci that laid down the foundation of the state that we enjoy...

The moral is once you have your land under your control you never let it go... no matter the “ideology”.

I really hope you are a Serb in disguise who is trying to make Albanians look bad. Albanian army in Kosmet? In Serbia proper? Buahhahahahahaahahaha!!!
(Jason, 15 July 2010 15:48)

Jason
When reading your comments I am getting convinced that you are not international but only one more "patriot" diaspora serb here.
Kosovo or Kosova or Kosmet call it whatever you want first of all belong to its people regardless of their ethnicity. Serbia had her days in Kosovo and we have seen how she did administer with her "proper". We can argue a lot about what happened in this territory 500 years ago but we all know what happened in 1999 as the filmings of mass killing, burnings and deportations are there for everyone to see.
Therefore please respect your terms of contract.

OHG, How do you plant to do that?
Seriously, I really want to know.
(Peggy, 16 July 2010 05:56)

Peggy, he has assembled an elite crack squad of Albanian keyboard commandos led by Captain Frisco to sort you out.

Be afraid, be very afraid :)

What do you red and black flags have to do with Kosovo? Are ye all anarchists?
(Niall O'Doherty, 16 July 2010 13:09)

Same to you... visit Kosovo fist!

In a game of hockey, baseball or football: a final score of 8 to 7 means the team with 8 goals wins. Same goes with the ICJ, the side that gets the support of at least eight judges wins the advisory ruling.
(Brian, 14 July 2010 22:48)

If we can speculate that the judges will vote according to the stances of their respective countries than it will be 9:6 in favor of independence(Japan,Sierra Leone,Jordan,USA,Germany,France,New Zealand,Somalia,GB)vs(Slovakia,Mexico,Moroco,Russia,Brazil,China).I counted Mexico on the Serbian side.Does anybody know when they reach the verdict? Is it in the morning of the day they will deliver?

RKS sas:
Tadic, Bog, Oliver ivanovic, and Tadic it's time for you to get thrown out of office. Say goodbye to your jobs as of July 22nd...I'm guessing the govt might fall say mid Aug?
(RKS, 14 July 2010 18:29)

i so agree with your comment. it is about time liberals took over serbia since it is evident that nationalists and so called democrats are not capable nor good for serbia.

my bet is also mid august, with new elections sometime in the autumn :-)

Brilant Zoti.

I hope ICJ will push Kosova towards Albania where it naturally belongs.

We will have to show gratitude again to Serbia for their assist: our best (unintentional) ally.

Albanian Parliament until 2WW was electing representatives of Kosova as well.

It was the idiot communists that give up of Kosova in the name of their idiot ideology bealiving that they can negotiate with Serbian communists a fair outcome.

It was Enver Hoxha's and Fadil Hoxhas partizans that liberated Kosova and withdrow in the name of communism. Idiots.

Kosova is was and will always be ALBANIA.
(ben, 15 July 2010 21:40)


Ben,

You should learn your history better before accusing people of wrong doing. I am speaking of the latter name you mentioned and not Enver Hoxha, obviously. Thanks to Fadil Hoxha and his team of communists (the people who layed the foundations of the Kosovo state) you are enjoying your independence today.

A.

OHG, How do you plant to do that?
Seriously, I really want to know.
(Peggy, 16 July 2010 05:56)

Just visit Kosovo once and you'll know!

ps. Red and Black flags everywhere!

You'll all see that when Serbia wins the ICJ case countries like Poland, Montenegro, Czech Republic, Costa Rica, Macedonia, and Italy withdraw their recognitions. Im not even making this up, their own goverments said they would do it if the court ruled in Serbia's favor.

Does Vegas have any odds on this gamble?

The decision is made. 10 Judges in favor of Independence 5 against! It´s not known if Mexico or Morroco has joined the already decided 9. I was always sure that 9 judges would never go against the position of their respected governments!

Greetings from Costa Rica!
(Albert, 15 July 2010 05:43)

According to the serbian media they are 7:7 but the court president hasn't made public his vote.

http://www.novosti.rs/vesti/naslovna/aktuelno.69.html:292538-Nereseno-u-sudnici

"Even though the court is expected to give a clear opinion on the matter, Varadi said that if the decision was not unanimous, the individual judges who did not agree with the ruling would be stating their own opinions on the issue.

However, the ICJ council makes its decision based on the majority of votes from the judges, which makes the decision official, but not obligating or legally binding in any way, though Varadi said that it would have "political weight"."

With other words, it is possible that we will have a mixed outcome where some favors and some doesn't favor Kosovo's independence. And since we are dealing only with an advisory opinion, the "political weight" will be even weaker than suggested here.

Sounds for me that this is going to happen. We will have a divided vote for an advisory opinion leaving this issue back to the countries who recognize or don't recognize Kosovo. With other words, nothing new, except that Serbia fired its last bullet.

A day after the ICJ decision on the July 27, 2010, Kosovo will be bombarded with new recognitions.

The fax machine must be monitored and supplied with papers continously to keep up with the forthcoming recognitions.

By the end of September as Sonja Biserko said recently we will be accepted as newest country on earth by the UN, thus avioding the Swiss-style reluctance to be a UN member for sometime, even though we can afford it because anyhow we are independent.

The icj's existence is based on one people's/nation's evident,and God given natural law to proclaim independence from any group who has shown itself incapable of keeping their word to follow the social contract, as explained by John Locke.
In the matter of Serbians vs. Albanians, ever since 1825, Serbian leaders have done their best to exterminate the Muslim members of the Balkans; which includes a large portion of the Albanian population. Milosevic's regime was just another explicit drop in that historical line of leaders who wished and enacted crimes of destruction of the Albanian population in the Balkans. The time has come for the fresh winds of change to blow away the ashes of inherited genes of hatred against the Albanians of the Balkans and let them have their eternity in the sun as an sovereign and internationally recognized independent member of nations on this earth.

Look the serbs are trying to lecture us about "international law"...something that doesn't exist. Where was international law when you butchered Albanians in Kosovo, Bosnians, croatians, and other nationalities?

I'm so glad this is coming to an end. I love how serb camp thinks the ICJ is going to play in their favor..what are you 6 years old? The ICJ will rule in no-one's favor.

Tadic, Bog, Oliver ivanovic, and Tadic it's time for you to get thrown out of office. Say goodbye to your jobs as of July 22nd...I'm guessing the govt might fall say mid Aug?

I'm sorry you find me "tedious".

Nor have I ever said "international law doesn't exist". I have pointed out a few times that it's an ambiguous term meaning different things in different contexts.

What's 'tedious' is Serbs' largely adolescent understanding of politics.

No, JohnC. It doesn't work like that. The majority view prevails. The dissenting opinions provide a rationalisation of why the judge in question disagrees, but the majority view wins the day. The US Supreme Court works the same way. If the Court says something thegovernment doesn't like, thegovernment can't just say that it rejects it because there are dissenting views, nor does it weaken the applicability of the finding.
(Jim, 14 July 2010)

I hope you realize there's a crucial difference between the ICJ and SCOTUS: The ICJ's opinion is not legally bidning, being that it is advisory, whereas SCOTUS's is.

As an Albanian I couldn't care less about the ICJ opinion as it serves only one purpose: to placate the Serb public opinion. If it is in Serbia's favor the public will feel vindicated but Kosova will remain independent. If it's not then it will pave the way for Serbia's eventual recognition whihc might take years even decades.

Howeevr as I said we simply do not care what Serbia does. Sure it'd be nice to get recognized by Serbia but who's de-facto controlling Kosova is more important to us.

I am neither Serb nor Albanian, but I most agree with IluvAlbanians. A country's right to govern and remain sovereign is directly correlated to that country's ability to protect its citizens' life, liberty, and self-determination. This is the social contract that, in moral principle, allows one group to govern (or have power) over another.

I do not agree with Patrik. The case of Kosovo isn't being considered in a light fashion giving "anyone carte blanche" to declare their independence based on a fading whim.

The marginalization dehumanization of Albanian people by Serbs can be verified over centuries. The acts during the wars are almost too painful to look at. I honestly do not know what the brief looks like, but I think this will be the argument. Serbs consider the UDI an act stubbornness; Albanians see separation as an act of survival.

There was a time I hoped for the partition of Kosovo. This seemed like a reasonable proposition and there was a natural boundary with the river. I think that time is also lost. No one wants another Cyprus and Serbia lost all political credibility when Djindjic was assassinated and war criminals have either been found in Belgrade or not turned over at all.

We can all hypothesize. Fortunately the decision will be soon now. And whatever the "majority" opinion is, that is the one the world will hear. While not technically binding, that will be it. I believe it is in everyone's best interest to move on.

"If the Court says something thegovernment doesn't like, thegovernment can't just say that it rejects it because there are dissenting views"

Of course, this analogy breaks down on the international level as there is no "the government"

Times up.
Soon it will be official.
The only option for the albanians is back to the negotiating table, or continue to be a criminal black hole.

RIP Kosovo independence!

If ICJ sides with Serbia, this could also set a precedent since it will give the green light an reassurance to any country that has similiar problems that they can freely start killing and ethnicly cleanse their citizens that want to break away because there will be no consequences.

In many ways, this I like a criminal asking protection under law and human rights, after committing the worst crimes to his victim and having no disregard for the law when it suited his goals.

Dear balkan neighbours,
Kosova is independent no matter what! You (and nobody) can turn that around anymore.

You can not cleam Kosova because you have build churches there. It would be the same if the Arabic world would be building moskes in Europe and claim after some centuries this is "our" land.

It is also not sufficiant because you had lost a war in Kosova (which was an army of the whole balkan-people, including Albanians, Macedoniens, Bulgarij, Greek and lots of mercenarie like German, ...). This would mean the same as Napoleon has lost his war in Waterloo (Belgium) and saying that this is now French Homeland or when Germany has lost his war in Stalingrad and claim that this is now their homeland (?).

Serbs do come from far after the Karpats (Roemenia) into the deep of Russia steps.

The Albanians (Ilyriers) were not only in Kosova first but throughout the whole of the balkans and Southern Italy.

We are now where we are and we need to get along together as good neighbours.

It is better to have a good neighbour than a far friend.

Peace and rest to the Balkans.

Tung
Kim

The ruling will be vague.
Both sides will proclaim political victory.

In the end, it will favor Kosovo more than Serbia simply because the ruling will state that UDI was not illegal or because Kosovo was a special case.
New recognitions will come.
The usual 5 suspects will not recognize.

If the ICJ sees this Albanian UDI as anything but going against international law, then any minority group, in any nation in the world that wants to claim independence, will have carte blanche to do so. There have been civil conflicts in many nations around the world, yet the solution did not result in the division of land, imposed by an outside power, to end the conflict. If the ICJ is to retain any amount of honor and respect, it must protect what keeps this world from being a free-for-all, international law.

We have seen Evil temporarily triumphant in Kosovo and Virtue and Truth persecuted, crucified and slain. But Eternal Justice marches surely and swiftly and will one day reach Kosovo too.

This question is for K albanians only;
What will happen if the ICJ says that the UDI was not according to international law and is considered null and void and 10-15 countries redraw their recognitions? Please do not re-formulate the question, just answer please.
(Staff, 14 July 2010 20:50)

You are a victim of modern-day media discourse, without a clue as to the substance of issues you refer to. K-Alb based the act of independence on their God given right to life and existence which as shown in history has been repeatedly denied and/or violated by Serbian state.

Many of the countries that are nowadays sovereign 'appeared' on the world's political map long before there was any 'international law' or even the UN. So to suggest that Kosovo's independence cannot be legitimate given this court objections (which might be only partly so) is to take a naive interpretation of how international relations function. Int'l law is an array of interests (simplistically said, of course) which, when there's no convergence, it is 'violated' repeatedly.

Kosovo's claim to statehood, amongst many valid claims, should be primarily anchored on the 'moral argument' of widespread state-sponsored killings which made Serbia's continued claim to sovereignty over Kosovo an untenable position. Note that the US's declaration of independence, long before there was any modern-day int'l law or an int'l org like the UN was based primarily on the idea of UK's colonial, repressive policy.

But, speaking of int'l law: how come Serbia consistently claims coverage by int'l law over its Kosovo sovereignty claim, when this same law was repeatedly violated through the commission of unprecedented war crimes? What part of int'l law sanctions this kind of behavior?

I suggest B92 works overtime next thursday and posts all the comments of our serbian brothers and sisters celebrating justice. This is the day of truth,justice will be done. The lies of Albanians and their masters will be exposed. I believe that the smart diplomacy of Tadic and Jeremic will pay off.Jeremic reinforces my believes,he said yesterday that according to his sources the verdict will favor the serbian side. Hang on brothers,victory will be ours.Get ready to party.Pyrros bring some ouzo.

nikshala:

I see you learn well from the propagandist experts. It's ok, we know the truth, that your whole plan from day 1 was to steal kosmet and ethnically cleanse all Serbs from their homeland. Tell me how many Serbs are living in Pristina today?

The day of humiliation for the Albanians and the west is coming.Thursday Serbian diplomacy will triumph over the american empire.

This question is for K albanians only;
What will happen if the ICJ says that the UDI was not according to international law and is considered null and void and 10-15 countries redraw their recognitions? Please do not re-formulate the question, just answer please.
(Staff, 14 July 2010 20:50)

Then K-Albanians will build an ark and all 2 million of them will move to Moon. That's a promise to you!

Kim,

Fortunately only the UN can deceide about Kosovo. And greetings from EU! Kosovo can never enter as it is not a state!

"f the ICJ sees this Albanian UDI as anything but going against international law, then any minority group, in any nation in the world that wants to claim independence, will have carte blanche to do so. There have been civil conflicts in many nations around the world, yet the solution did not result in the division of land, imposed by an outside power, to end the conflict. If the ICJ is to retain any amount of honor and respect, it must protect what keeps this world from being a free-for-all, international law."

That is why it is generally expected that the decision will be primarily favorable for Serbia. The ICJ does not want to open the floodgates for mass secessions around the globe. And since it is merely advisory and not binding it opens things up for further discussion and negotiation, which is what the United Nations has wanted all along. From a practical standpoint, all Kosovo will never again be a fully governed part of Serbia again. Yet, it's clear that all of Kosovo cannot be a fully independent and separate country. Either some level of independent government will have to be agreed to or a reallocation of borders will be necessary in order to resolve the situation. And if the current leaders in Kosovo refuse any type of compromise after the ICJ has rendered their opinion, they will likely lose the support of many countries that have already recognized their declaration of independence. On top of that, the UN will never allow them to become members if they refuse to go along with the opinion of the UN's court.

@ Staff.

In that scenario, we Albanians are going to beg belgrade to take us back.We miss the paradise that we had when Serbia ruled Kosovo.

The ICJ cannot give a ruling that contradicts the Helsinki Final Act where it written that secession from a state is not legal without the express agreement of the state in question.

I'm sure that the ICJ will say something along the lines of nations can declare independence or the right to self-determination but within the existing framework of international law. Extra-judicial recognitions of such a declared territory are just that - they fall outside the established law and conventions (HFA).

Otherwise the ICJ is opening up an established legal precedent for the dismemberment of the nation state, and that affects the whole world.

"What will happen if the ICJ says that the UDI was not according to international law and is considered null and void and 10-15 countries redraw their recognitions?
(Staff, 14 July 2010 20:50)

Mr or Mrs Staff,

Let me answer your question in a very simple way. THERE WOULD BE NO RETURN OF KOSOVO under Serbia's soverignity under no circumstances.

I tell you why. Firstly, that would be an insult to the victims of Kosovo war.

Secondly, Serbia never has had an intention in honouring the Court's Opinion if it goes against Serbia's expectaction. I say that taking into account President Tadic repetitive statements " that will not recognise Kosovo independence".

As your question was a straight question I would like to give you a straigh answer. If Serbia did not REALLY intend to honour Court's Opinion why should the Kosovo Albanians act differently. The paradox is that it was Serbia who approached the ICJ. I think that Serbia's intention to approach to ICJ was not because it cares about international law but PURELY how to stop further recognitions of Kosovo independence. The very last thing tell me what is Serbia doing to apeal to Kosovo Albanian to accept a return under Serbia's sovereignity? I hope that I answered your questions.

"This question is for K albanians only;
What will happen if the ICJ says that the UDI was not according to international law and is considered null and void and 10-15 countries redraw their recognitions? Please do not re-formulate the question, just answer please.
(Staff, 14 July 2010 20:50)"

What would happen if one you day woke up and realized you had wings and could fly?

Can you answer that question without reformulating it?

Since we're speaking hypothetically I will answer your question. Nothing would happen.
It would extend the amount of time it would take to join the UN and probably would hurt foreign investments for several years.

Who would by stupid enough to try to take that away?

What will happen once ICJ finds that Albanians in Kosovo had every right to declare independence?

We all know that , whatever the result may be, neither beograd will reckognise kosovo nor pristina will turn back...eventually this icj was a loss of time ...so the only solution is for Albanian army to march through pristina, mitrovica and presevo....we are all tired of this multiethnicity non sense, our people simply can not live together, now that we are getting those upgraded american planes, it will be much easier.

This question is for K albanians only;
What will happen if the ICJ says that the UDI was not according to international law and is considered null and void and 10-15 countries redraw their recognitions? Please do not re-formulate the question, just answer please.

Zoti - As you don't even appear to know that EULEX is a rule of law mission - hence my comment - and not a peacekeeping or security force (tasks which are covered by KFOR) it would appear that your credibility to comment with any seriousness on anything to do with Kosovo appears to be pretty much zero.
(Jim, 15 July 2010)

Potato potahto. I hope you realize EULEX is the successor to UNMIK and the EULEX police coordinates its efforts with KFOR especially in the troubled North where Serb are harbored.

Do you think EULEX would be necessary had Serbia recognized our indepedence. I don't see an EU police force in Montenegro after they declared their independence.

As for my credibilty I am Albanian and have more credibiltiy to comment on Kosova's internal matters than you, or any other Serb here. You are just a momentary nuisance that soon will be rid of.

This question is for K albanians only;
What will happen if the ICJ says that the UDI was not according to international law and is considered null and void and 10-15 countries redraw their recognitions? Please do not re-formulate the question, just answer please.
(Staff, 14 July 2010 20:50)
I’m not here to represent Albanians, though I am Albanian. This is only my personal respond. First of all your question is very hypothetical. The ICJ may give its opinion in favor or against UDI, but in no way consider it null and void. So, therefore I think you should rephrase your question to comply with the issue and original request made to ICJ. So, my final answer is that nothing will happen, at least not anything close to what you are alluding to with your hypothetic question.
A question to you. What will happen if ICJ says that Declaration of Independence was not in breach with Int. law?

What will happen if the ICJ says that the UDI was not according to international law and is considered null and void and 10-15 countries redraw their recognitions? Please do not re-formulate the question, just answer please.
(Staff, 14 July 2010 20:50)

Answer: Unification with the Republic of Albania.
(Zoti, 15 July 2010 05:18)

Brilant Zoti.

I hope ICJ will push Kosova towards Albania where it naturally belongs.

We will have to show gratitude again to Serbia for their assist: our best (unintentional) ally.

Albanian Parliament until 2WW was electing representatives of Kosova as well.

It was the idiot communists that give up of Kosova in the name of their idiot ideology bealiving that they can negotiate with Serbian communists a fair outcome.

It was Enver Hoxha's and Fadil Hoxhas partizans that liberated Kosova and withdrow in the name of communism. Idiots.

Kosova is was and will always be ALBANIA.

Danilo - stop being so tedious! This is becoming boring now!

Every time it is the same nonsense from one or other KA here that there is no such thing as international law and that it is not like domestic law. Seriously, we have been through this too many times to go over it again. I wish you would just grow up. International law exists and there are bodies capable of holding states to account for their actions, even in the concept of punishment is different from domestic law. If this were not the case then the ECJ, ECHR, ICTY, ICC would be utterly meaningless.

Anyway, believe what you want, but know this: if the ICJ does rule against the UDI watch how fast countries that support it press for new talks so that they are not seen to be ignoring the opinion of the world's most important judicial body.

I'll leave you to ponder that.

As for not caring about international law, that hardly surprises me. This is the usual response from KAs. Has it never struck you that there is a very good reason EULEX had to be sent to Kosovo?
(Jim, 14 July 2010)

My understanding is that EULEX is there to protect Albanians in case of the eventual attack by Serbia if there were no international force presence in the Republic of Kosova. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Spare me the lecture on int'l law. Jeremic stated soon after the case was brought by Serbia in front of the ICJ panel that a decision against Serbia would not be binding. If that's not hypocritical I don't know what is.

RKS sas:
Tadic, Bog, Oliver ivanovic, and Tadic it's time for you to get thrown out of office. Say goodbye to your jobs as of July 22nd...I'm guessing the govt might fall say mid Aug?
(RKS, 14 July 2010 18:29)

i so agree with your comment. it is about time liberals took over serbia since it is evident that nationalists and so called democrats are not capable nor good for serbia.

my bet is also mid august, with new elections sometime in the autumn :-)

Zoti - I hardly need lessons on the difference between the ICJ and the US Supreme Court! My point was simple: to illustrate that a dissenting view is not an alternative reading that can be used if you don't agree with the prevailing view. The majority opinion holds. You obviously didn't bother to read the context of the comment.

As for the argument that the ICJ opinion is not binding, that is true in a technical sense but we all know that it will have tremendous weight. As I have said several times over the past few days, if the EU and US choose to ignore the opinion of the ICJ then they will lose all credibility on the international stage. Any future demands that others should adhere to international law will simply righ hollow. The opinion is far more important than they are letting on.

As for not caring about international law, that hardly surprises me. This is the usual response from KAs. Has it never struck you that there is a very good reason EULEX had to be sent to Kosovo?

"This question is for K albanians only;
What will happen if the ICJ says that the UDI was not according to international law and is considered null and void and 10-15 countries redraw their recognitions? Please do not re-formulate the question, just answer please.
(Staff, 14 July 2010 20:50)

Answer: Unification with the Republic of Albania.

I suggest B92 works overtime next thursday and posts all the comments of our serbian brothers and sisters celebrating justice. This is the day of truth,justice will be done. The lies of Albanians and their masters will be exposed. I believe that the smart diplomacy of Tadic and Jeremic will pay off.Jeremic reinforces my believes,he said yesterday that according to his sources the verdict will favor the serbian side. Hang on brothers,victory will be ours.Get ready to party.Pyrros bring some ouzo.
(CCCC, 14 July 2010 20:42)

Hold fast my friend. It is a bit like leading 1-0 in the Cup final with 6 minutes to go. When the refere blows the whistle and the 1-0 is confirmed, then Serbs and supporters of Serbia can celebrate. It is not over yet but you have got to take your hat off to Vuk, he has done a sterling job. He has done his best, now it is up to the judges to decide.

Alot is at stake.

The pro-UDI states are so confident and stuffed up from their media spin and power Smorgasbord that they can't even contemplate that the ICJ won't fall under their boot.

This is not just about Kosovo. It is about whether true international law still exists to protect us all or whether even the highest court in the world has now been tainted by political influence.

What will it say about the UN if the very resolutions drawn up by its Security Council can be bypassed and stamped on by the clearly illegal issue of a UDI? Hostilities in Kosovo had ceased almost a decade earlier, full autonomy had been offered by the sovereign state, so-called 'negotiations' were run by someone who was openly biased, and the province was (and is) an international protectorate administered by the UN.

None of this forms a solid basis for any single ethnic group to legally declare independence.

Not to mention the systematic removal and trashing of Serbian culture and history and the terrorism of Serbian and other communities before the very eyes of a complacent and media controlled world. This should have brought about new negotiations already, instead of which a blind eye has been turned.

I would like to know why the American judge resigned - was it because of political interference, or was it because he couldn't influence other judges? It would be interesting to find out.

I truly hope that the court's opinion on the 22nd goes in favour of Serbia. International law does not need to be disrespected any further, and the UN should not be blatantly disregarded – it would be very dangerous. Far more dangerous than having to deal with the fall-out from upsetting the Kosovo Albanians while getting them back to the negotiating table.

By the way, great comments on this thread, Jim.

Zoti - As you don't even appear to know that EULEX is a rule of law mission - hence my comment - and not a peacekeeping or security force (tasks which are covered by KFOR) it would appear that your credibility to comment with any seriousness on anything to do with Kosovo appears to be pretty much zero.

Thanks, Kate.

the only solution is for Albanian army to march through pristina, mitrovica and presevo....we are all tired of this multiethnicity non sense, our people simply can not live together, now that we are getting those upgraded american planes, it will be much easier.
(sabaton, 15 July 2010 09:37)

I really hope you are a Serb in disguise who is trying to make Albanians look bad. Albanian army in Kosmet? In Serbia proper? Buahhahahahahaahahaha!!!

I really hope you are a Serb in disguise who is trying to make Albanians look bad. Albanian army in Kosmet? In Serbia proper? Buahhahahahahaahahaha!!!
(Jason, 15 July 2010 15:48)

Jason
When reading your comments I am getting convinced that you are not international but only one more "patriot" diaspora serb here.
Kosovo or Kosova or Kosmet call it whatever you want first of all belong to its people regardless of their ethnicity. Serbia had her days in Kosovo and we have seen how she did administer with her "proper". We can argue a lot about what happened in this territory 500 years ago but we all know what happened in 1999 as the filmings of mass killing, burnings and deportations are there for everyone to see.
Therefore please respect your terms of contract.

No, JohnC. It doesn't work like that. The majority view prevails. The dissenting opinions provide a rationalisation of why the judge in question disagrees, but the majority view wins the day. The US Supreme Court works the same way. If the Court says something thegovernment doesn't like, thegovernment can't just say that it rejects it because there are dissenting views, nor does it weaken the applicability of the finding. Again, the majority view stands as the final view and must be respected, even if the dissenting views are more in line with one's own views.

All of you who post the UN or EULEX do not care what you think. It is decided what is in the best interest of all. Kosova will never join the EU because 5 EU members say no. If Russia and China decides to toss you guys under the bus then you won't make the UN so status unresolved. NO major investments, NO jobs and not a chance of success. What is there to get from Kosovo? The mines in trepca are so tied up in courts you won't profit from it and bad thing is it is in the North. Now my question is this to all, will the Kosovo albanians risk war to be free? Hell no, and don't think as a refugee you can run to the EU looking for help. If you cause the war you suffer the consquences. You want the UN out, well again if war comes and the albanians caused it then you will go crying to the UN for help and they will turn there backs on them just like you have on them now because it did not agree with your agenda. Carla del ponte was a champion at once but when she decided to pursue the "Yellow House" case she was nothing and because it did not go along with your agenda. 2004 was a hard lesson and 2010 will be another.

It’s extremely doubtful that ICJ would deny freedom to a nation and favour the aggressor who not only deported a million, killed 10000, but also burned their homes! If that happens, then, that court is the biggest enemy of Freedom!

to CCCC,

wish you very good luck since you seam to blindly trust your leaders. i do not think there is poing to be a party so ask pyros to hold on to his ouzo.

What do you red and black flags have to do with Kosovo? Are ye all anarchists?
(Niall O'Doherty, 16 July 2010 13:09)

Same to you... visit Kosovo fist!

The decision is made. 10 Judges in favor of Independence 5 against! It´s not known if Mexico or Morroco has joined the already decided 9. I was always sure that 9 judges would never go against the position of their respected governments!

Greetings from Costa Rica!

The term 'ethnic cleansing' was first used to describe the driving out of Serbs from Kosovo before the time of Milosevic. There is no moral high ground for Albanians who have pursued a mono-ethnic ambition for a long time. The udi is just a continuation of that aggression and is not a suitable solution.

Also, Milosevic is gone. It is racist to continue to label Serbia as if he were still there. In the modern world things do change - and a Serbia capable of being in the EU is also a Serbia capable of ruling Kosovo properly.

In fact, the agreement of 1244, although signed under duress, contains the appropriate solution. Strong autonomy within the territory of Serbia.

The current situation is not a udi, it is a protectorate status. The ICJ cannot give credence to the udi because it does not actually exist. What we have is government by the UN and other bodies that allows Pristina certain powers that are not actually able to be exercised over the whole of the territory. The udi is not established and so should not be legalised meaningfully under the current circumstances.

Matters like the Helsinki act require that agreements be made in circumstances like this. What we currently have is a western over-reaction that is too impositional and not suitable for producing a solution that will stand for all time. Hopefully there will now be more account taken of Serbia's point of view and a sensible agreement can be reached.

OHG, How do you plant to do that?
Seriously, I really want to know.
(Peggy, 16 July 2010 05:56)

Just visit Kosovo once and you'll know!

ps. Red and Black flags everywhere!

Does Vegas have any odds on this gamble?

In a game of hockey, baseball or football: a final score of 8 to 7 means the team with 8 goals wins. Same goes with the ICJ, the side that gets the support of at least eight judges wins the advisory ruling.

Brilant Zoti.

I hope ICJ will push Kosova towards Albania where it naturally belongs.

We will have to show gratitude again to Serbia for their assist: our best (unintentional) ally.

Albanian Parliament until 2WW was electing representatives of Kosova as well.

It was the idiot communists that give up of Kosova in the name of their idiot ideology bealiving that they can negotiate with Serbian communists a fair outcome.

It was Enver Hoxha's and Fadil Hoxhas partizans that liberated Kosova and withdrow in the name of communism. Idiots.

Kosova is was and will always be ALBANIA.
(ben, 15 July 2010 21:40)


Ben,

You should learn your history better before accusing people of wrong doing. I am speaking of the latter name you mentioned and not Enver Hoxha, obviously. Thanks to Fadil Hoxha and his team of communists (the people who layed the foundations of the Kosovo state) you are enjoying your independence today.

A.

In a game of hockey, baseball or football: a final score of 8 to 7 means the team with 8 goals wins. Same goes with the ICJ, the side that gets the support of at least eight judges wins the advisory ruling.
(Brian, 14 July 2010 22:48)

If we can speculate that the judges will vote according to the stances of their respective countries than it will be 9:6 in favor of independence(Japan,Sierra Leone,Jordan,USA,Germany,France,New Zealand,Somalia,GB)vs(Slovakia,Mexico,Moroco,Russia,Brazil,China).I counted Mexico on the Serbian side.Does anybody know when they reach the verdict? Is it in the morning of the day they will deliver?

As for my credibilty I am Albanian and have more credibiltiy to comment on Kosova's internal matters than you, or any other Serb here. You are just a momentary nuisance that soon will be rid of.
(Zoti, 15 July 2010 17:42)
=================
OHG, How do you plant to do that?
Seriously, I really want to know.

Just visit Kosovo once and you'll know!

ps. Red and Black flags everywhere!
(Hekuran, 16 July 2010 12:22)

What do you red and black flags have to do with Kosovo? Are ye all anarchists?

The word "If" in analytical terminology is defined as likely or highly likely.

I feel sorry for the UN in the region, they are about to become the reason of hate.

(Abiline, 16 July 2010 03:43)

Meagre consolation Abiline.

Hoxha’s and Fadil’s partisans had a firm control over Kosova since they liberated it.

But instead of focusing on their own land and guarantee that the Bujan conference agreement (of a free referendum in which Kosovar’s will express freely their will if they want to be part of Yugo or Albania) will be implemented they diverted their army into north to fight for the communism.

Hoxha send his troops up to Sarajevo and Fadi up to Trieste (my grandfather was on of those partisans) instead of keeping firmly under control Kosova as they had it.

Of course if you divert your limited resources somewhere else then the Serbian domination over -Kosova is easy and kiss good by the Bujan agreement- as it happened.

Then as meagre consolation you get an autonomy or “foundation...” as you say.

That is same as if today Thaci agrees on a Confederation with Serbia. So tomorrow someone can say: well yes it was UCK and Thaci that laid down the foundation of the state that we enjoy...

The moral is once you have your land under your control you never let it go... no matter the “ideology”.

OHG, How do you plant to do that?
Seriously, I really want to know.
(Peggy, 16 July 2010 05:56)

Peggy, he has assembled an elite crack squad of Albanian keyboard commandos led by Captain Frisco to sort you out.

Be afraid, be very afraid :)

You'll all see that when Serbia wins the ICJ case countries like Poland, Montenegro, Czech Republic, Costa Rica, Macedonia, and Italy withdraw their recognitions. Im not even making this up, their own goverments said they would do it if the court ruled in Serbia's favor.

The decision is made. 10 Judges in favor of Independence 5 against! It´s not known if Mexico or Morroco has joined the already decided 9. I was always sure that 9 judges would never go against the position of their respected governments!

Greetings from Costa Rica!
(Albert, 15 July 2010 05:43)

According to the serbian media they are 7:7 but the court president hasn't made public his vote.

http://www.novosti.rs/vesti/naslovna/aktuelno.69.html:292538-Nereseno-u-sudnici