Same thing for Kosovo.
Serbia is more advanced from Alb (by far), so the average Kosovo-Alb would naturally want to belong to a more advanced state. (thats why they kept comming to Kosovo by the millions during Yugoslavia).
smth tells me Spain will not send again any of its aircrafts to bomb Serbia, for a very very long time.
(pyrros, 12 July 2010 14:23)
what are you talking about you make no sense. and kosovo is still part of serbia under the UN and yes they bombed kosovo,serbia so whats your point on this.
(tom, 12 July 2010 15:28)
Tom i didnt hit that button 16 times, ask the ones who did to explain you why they found some sense in what i wrote.
Anyways, Spain now plays the good guy, but no one can forget Xavier(a) "hollander" Solana and his furious anti-serb speeches back in the mid->late 90s...
Very few countries took part in the bombing of Serbia and Spain was one of them.
The fact that now they support Serbia does not neutralize their hypocrisy one way or another.
“The case of the Basque is another matter (Karanovic, 12 July 2010 18:00)”
As Serbs I think we can safely support their desire for independence in France, since France recognized Kosovo. It’s also consistent with the Serbian approach to reject a two state solution for the Basque. One should be enough, and that can be France, NOT Spain.
However, a mutually agreed upon solution based on negotiation is also consistent with our viewpoint, just as long as both parties agree, anything should be on the table, including partition.
In principle, I cannot agree with their desire for independence as Spain is one of Serbia's EU supporters of its territorial sovereignty. Kosovo is Serbia, and Catalonia is Spain! The Spanish people do share differences in language, way of life, and economic prosperity and development, but these are no means for dismembering a country's territory when differences can be ironed out of the parties are reasonable and fair. Germany does just fine as a federation of 16 states and city-states that vary widely in many aspects from each other. I know each case is different, but the Catalonia situation is similar and can be worked out if cooler heads prevail. The case of the Basque is another matter since they are a separate ethnic and linguistic group, but I would maintain that they must stay in sovereign Spain.
PS: Next are the Basque. Adéu, Espanya !
(JohnC., 12 July 2010 15:37
Your implication that Basques want independence is a myth an must be challenged.
In 2009 for the first since Franco the nationalists lost power and the regional goverment now is made up by Socialists and conservatives.
The Basques are simply fed up with the nationalists
especially the way they have progressively introduced institutional discrimination against non-Basque speakers (nobody can get a job in the public sector unless he's fluent in basque language).
It's mainly the local politicians who stir up violence and threten independence and not the people.
I would like to see the protesters calling for independence citing the Kosovo precedent. It will be interesting to see how the Spanish government will like to be equalized to Serbia. I bet the spanish government will be the first one to reject a Kosovo parallel.
smth tells me Spain will not send again any of its aircrafts to bomb Serbia, for a very very long time.
(pyrros, 12 July 2010 14:23)
what are you talking about you make no sense. and kosovo is still part of serbia under the UN and yes they bombed kosovo,serbia so whats your point on this.
This rally was just the beginning. It was outstanding that 1.1 Mio people (the organisation said it was 1.5 Mio) were demonstrating, since only 7.5 Mio people live in Catalonia. It was also the biggest rally ever since the end of the Franco dictatorship.
Catalonians want not only autonomy. A growing part wants real independence. The fact that Madrid wants to diminish the Catalonians freedom turns to be the biggest mistake they could do. Catalonia is the only part of (current) Spain which has a functional industry. Moreover, Catalonia spends 60 Mio Euro per day (!) to stabalize the Spanish economy. That is over 21 billion a year, and while the industry in and around Barcelona, the capital of Catalonia, is increasing, the rest of Spains shrinks, making the deficit worse and bankruptcy imminent. I have full understanding that Barcelona is not willing to stabilize Madrid, especially after this humiliating ruling. Catalonians have understood that it is time to rise up and they can be sure that they are not alone.
This rally was just the beginning. It was outstanding that 1.1 Mio people (the organisation said it was 1.5 Mio) were demonstrating, since only 7.5 Mio people live in Catalonia. It was also the biggest rally ever since the end of the Franco dictatorship.
Catalonians want not only autonomy. A growing part wants real independence. The fact that Madrid wants to diminish the Catalonians freedom turns to be the biggest mistake they could do. Catalonia is the only part of (current) Spain which has a functional industry. Moreover, Catalonia spends 60 Mio Euro per day (!) to stabalize the Spanish economy. That is over 21 billion a year, and while the industry in and around Barcelona, the capital of Catalonia, is increasing, the rest of Spains shrinks, making the deficit worse and bankruptcy imminent. I have full understanding that Barcelona is not willing to stabilize Madrid, especially after this humiliating ruling. Catalonians have understood that it is time to rise up and they can be sure that they are not alone.
In principle, I cannot agree with their desire for independence as Spain is one of Serbia's EU supporters of its territorial sovereignty. Kosovo is Serbia, and Catalonia is Spain! The Spanish people do share differences in language, way of life, and economic prosperity and development, but these are no means for dismembering a country's territory when differences can be ironed out of the parties are reasonable and fair. Germany does just fine as a federation of 16 states and city-states that vary widely in many aspects from each other. I know each case is different, but the Catalonia situation is similar and can be worked out if cooler heads prevail. The case of the Basque is another matter since they are a separate ethnic and linguistic group, but I would maintain that they must stay in sovereign Spain.
PS: Next are the Basque. Adéu, Espanya !
(JohnC., 12 July 2010 15:37
Your implication that Basques want independence is a myth an must be challenged.
In 2009 for the first since Franco the nationalists lost power and the regional goverment now is made up by Socialists and conservatives.
The Basques are simply fed up with the nationalists
especially the way they have progressively introduced institutional discrimination against non-Basque speakers (nobody can get a job in the public sector unless he's fluent in basque language).
It's mainly the local politicians who stir up violence and threten independence and not the people.
I would like to see the protesters calling for independence citing the Kosovo precedent. It will be interesting to see how the Spanish government will like to be equalized to Serbia. I bet the spanish government will be the first one to reject a Kosovo parallel.
smth tells me Spain will not send again any of its aircrafts to bomb Serbia, for a very very long time.
(pyrros, 12 July 2010 14:23)
what are you talking about you make no sense. and kosovo is still part of serbia under the UN and yes they bombed kosovo,serbia so whats your point on this.
“The case of the Basque is another matter (Karanovic, 12 July 2010 18:00)”
As Serbs I think we can safely support their desire for independence in France, since France recognized Kosovo. It’s also consistent with the Serbian approach to reject a two state solution for the Basque. One should be enough, and that can be France, NOT Spain.
However, a mutually agreed upon solution based on negotiation is also consistent with our viewpoint, just as long as both parties agree, anything should be on the table, including partition.
smth tells me Spain will not send again any of its aircrafts to bomb Serbia, for a very very long time.
(pyrros, 12 July 2010 14:23)
what are you talking about you make no sense. and kosovo is still part of serbia under the UN and yes they bombed kosovo,serbia so whats your point on this.
(tom, 12 July 2010 15:28)
Tom i didnt hit that button 16 times, ask the ones who did to explain you why they found some sense in what i wrote.
Anyways, Spain now plays the good guy, but no one can forget Xavier(a) "hollander" Solana and his furious anti-serb speeches back in the mid->late 90s...
Very few countries took part in the bombing of Serbia and Spain was one of them.
The fact that now they support Serbia does not neutralize their hypocrisy one way or another.
Same thing for Kosovo.
Serbia is more advanced from Alb (by far), so the average Kosovo-Alb would naturally want to belong to a more advanced state. (thats why they kept comming to Kosovo by the millions during Yugoslavia).
This rally was just the beginning. It was outstanding that 1.1 Mio people (the organisation said it was 1.5 Mio) were demonstrating, since only 7.5 Mio people live in Catalonia. It was also the biggest rally ever since the end of the Franco dictatorship.
Catalonians want not only autonomy. A growing part wants real independence. The fact that Madrid wants to diminish the Catalonians freedom turns to be the biggest mistake they could do. Catalonia is the only part of (current) Spain which has a functional industry. Moreover, Catalonia spends 60 Mio Euro per day (!) to stabalize the Spanish economy. That is over 21 billion a year, and while the industry in and around Barcelona, the capital of Catalonia, is increasing, the rest of Spains shrinks, making the deficit worse and bankruptcy imminent. I have full understanding that Barcelona is not willing to stabilize Madrid, especially after this humiliating ruling. Catalonians have understood that it is time to rise up and they can be sure that they are not alone.
smth tells me Spain will not send again any of its aircrafts to bomb Serbia, for a very very long time.
(pyrros, 12 July 2010 14:23)
what are you talking about you make no sense. and kosovo is still part of serbia under the UN and yes they bombed kosovo,serbia so whats your point on this.
In principle, I cannot agree with their desire for independence as Spain is one of Serbia's EU supporters of its territorial sovereignty. Kosovo is Serbia, and Catalonia is Spain! The Spanish people do share differences in language, way of life, and economic prosperity and development, but these are no means for dismembering a country's territory when differences can be ironed out of the parties are reasonable and fair. Germany does just fine as a federation of 16 states and city-states that vary widely in many aspects from each other. I know each case is different, but the Catalonia situation is similar and can be worked out if cooler heads prevail. The case of the Basque is another matter since they are a separate ethnic and linguistic group, but I would maintain that they must stay in sovereign Spain.
PS: Next are the Basque. Adéu, Espanya !
(JohnC., 12 July 2010 15:37
Your implication that Basques want independence is a myth an must be challenged.
In 2009 for the first since Franco the nationalists lost power and the regional goverment now is made up by Socialists and conservatives.
The Basques are simply fed up with the nationalists
especially the way they have progressively introduced institutional discrimination against non-Basque speakers (nobody can get a job in the public sector unless he's fluent in basque language).
It's mainly the local politicians who stir up violence and threten independence and not the people.
Same thing for Kosovo.
Serbia is more advanced from Alb (by far), so the average Kosovo-Alb would naturally want to belong to a more advanced state. (thats why they kept comming to Kosovo by the millions during Yugoslavia).
I would like to see the protesters calling for independence citing the Kosovo precedent. It will be interesting to see how the Spanish government will like to be equalized to Serbia. I bet the spanish government will be the first one to reject a Kosovo parallel.
smth tells me Spain will not send again any of its aircrafts to bomb Serbia, for a very very long time.
(pyrros, 12 July 2010 14:23)
what are you talking about you make no sense. and kosovo is still part of serbia under the UN and yes they bombed kosovo,serbia so whats your point on this.
(tom, 12 July 2010 15:28)
Tom i didnt hit that button 16 times, ask the ones who did to explain you why they found some sense in what i wrote.
Anyways, Spain now plays the good guy, but no one can forget Xavier(a) "hollander" Solana and his furious anti-serb speeches back in the mid->late 90s...
Very few countries took part in the bombing of Serbia and Spain was one of them.
The fact that now they support Serbia does not neutralize their hypocrisy one way or another.
“The case of the Basque is another matter (Karanovic, 12 July 2010 18:00)”
As Serbs I think we can safely support their desire for independence in France, since France recognized Kosovo. It’s also consistent with the Serbian approach to reject a two state solution for the Basque. One should be enough, and that can be France, NOT Spain.
However, a mutually agreed upon solution based on negotiation is also consistent with our viewpoint, just as long as both parties agree, anything should be on the table, including partition.
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