Intl. Court of Justice judge quits

An American judge resigning is not a good sign for K-Albanians. As for the temporary institutions predictions? Put them up there with other similar failed ones, like KiM being a UN member, Russian recognition of KiM, EU membership and fixing 50% unemployment.

Those who made their wretched reputations on the back of the Kosovo debacle, clinton mafia and assorted hangers on, are desperate for their pet project to succeed. They'll do anything to secure more recognitions. But those with principle know how dreadful the whole thing has become. The bigger States with backbone won't allow themselves to be bullied or coerced by the forces of empire.

Interesting news, is the ICJ decision about to get announced and the US is not going to like it?
Good old americans, if it doesn't go their way they quit!

That is not true, PSS. The ICJ does not operate like an Albanian clan, and a resigning judge from the US does not have to be replaced by another US judge. Where do you get your info? Anyway, with internationals familiar with the Kosovo situation, the prevailing feeling is that there will be no black and white decision either way but, remarks will be made in support of upholding international law, otherwise chaos will be unleashed throughout the world where minorities are in conflict with majority governments - starting with the Palestinian situation. We can all stick out our chests like roosters and say this or that either way, but I agree with the consensus opinion that the court will not resolve the Kosovo status issue.

@ pss -- didn't the temporary institutions also claim Serbia would recognize KiM among their other miscalculations I listed in my earlier post? Yeah they did. Another Epic Albanian Fail! More recognitions won't change the legality of KiM. BRIC has 2/3 of the world's population and control of UN, economic clout & resource control and US-UK-EU Have neither. Its over for your failed narco-state.

An American judge resigning is not a good sign for K-Albanians. As for the temporary institutions predictions? Put them up there with other similar failed ones, like KiM being a UN member, Russian recognition of KiM, EU membership and fixing 50% unemployment.
(highduke, 12 June 2010 12:56)
If the decision is to be announced in July that means the decision has been made just needs to be transcribed.
As far as the American judge resigning, he will be replaced with another American judge.

So much speculation. Have any of you considered why the question to the ICJ was so narrow? Basically, is the UDI legal?

If so, then fine. It doesn't ask anyone to recognise Kosovo and we have enough powerful countries blocking independence to ensure the status quo remains. In other words, independence is irreversibly blocked regardless of further recognitions and ICJ decision.

If the court decides this to be illegal then those who have already recognised are doing so against international law. Serbia's territorial integrity will be confirmed.

It seems the question has been designed to do minimal damage if against Serbia and maximum damage if for Serbia. But I think most are expecting something in between, which confirms the status quo. This can only be overcome through further negotiations. Who wants to keep pumping much needed billions into a black hole?

highduke is somehow right, but let me enlight all who wants to know facts that I have come across from my sources. Thomas Buergenthal, one of the most skilled international judges have told US over and over again that there is no way whatsoever that the verdict can please the K Albanian side. They can simply not find ANYTHING that justify the proclamation of independence. Therefore, Mr Buergenthal has handed in his resignation after some US diplomats have talked very bad to him. He got very angry and handed in his resignation last week. How I know this. I cannot tell you even if I liked to. But, save this text and check it in 4-5 weeks if I was right or wrong.

@ Michael R -- Your interpretation is WRONG bc the socialist wreck USA has no economic clout to back up its diplomacy anymore, whereas BRIC does just like the USSR didn't in the 80s. Now RUS-USA positions are REVERSED. Grasp The WIDER Reality and prepare for RE-INTEGRATION W/ SERBIA

The American judge may be resigning because the integrity of the court has been compromised and he no longer wants to participate in a Court that had it's independence ripped away from it by Government powers. He was a German Jew that lived through several of Hitler's concentration camps, so he may be particularly sensitive to echo's of 1930's German courts, in which a free and fair process in deriving at a just and proper ruling, was corrupted by government. This resignation could be the Judge's form of retaliation against the Government's that poured on the pressure and made him succumb and feel dirty.

An American judge resigning is not a good sign for K-Albanians. As for the temporary institutions predictions? Put them up there with other similar failed ones, like KiM being a UN member, Russian recognition of KiM, EU membership and fixing 50% unemployment.
(highduke, 12 June 2010 12:56)

highduke,

The US judge's resignation goes into effect after the decision is given at the ICJ. This could be interpreted as the US judge has done his job i.e. his vote is for independence. It certainly does not look good for Serbia.

EA - I have said it before, there is a good reason why Serbia has said that it will not recognise Kosovo's independence despite the Court's ruling. Given that the US and others have said that the ruling will change nothing (they too will reject it), then if Serbia says that it will accept it no matter what, it gives the Court an easy way out. Rule in favour independence and solve the matter. In other words, Serbia has been forced into this stand in order to try to minimise the chances of a 'political' decision.

@ Michael R -- Your interpretation is WRONG bc the socialist wreck USA has no economic clout to back up its diplomacy anymore, whereas BRIC does just like the USSR didn't in the 80s. Now RUS-USA positions are REVERSED. Grasp The WIDER Reality and prepare for RE-INTEGRATION W/ SERBIA
(highduke, 12 June 2010 19:21)

Wow u must be smoking something USA clout is still bigest in the world look at US economy size and look at Russia. Russia is not even in the same discussion.

take BRIC together and they are still smaller than USA alone and can they sustain this 10% groth forever lets see but USA is still force to recon with

(Raymond, 12 June 2010 15:08)
If you look at the history of the court, there is always a judge from each of the UNSC permanent member countries. The judge elected has to be done so by the General Assembly and the UNSC. It is also customary that since the judges are elected for 9 years the representing country will name the replacement for the duration of the term.
So while there is a small chance that it could happen that Blumenthal would be replaced by a non-American it is very very small.
As far as resolution of the problem, it has always been my stance that the opinion itself will be useless.
As far as where I get my information, a little research goes a long way.

EA - can we get beyond this argument that the ICJ's opinion is 'only' advisory and doesn't matter that much. It does.

For a start, it is binding on UN organs. This would hamper Kosovo's ties with UN bodies even more, and could throw open serious questions about its membership of the IMF and World Bank (officially UN organs, but with different membership criteria).

Secondly, it is nonsense to believe that you can ask the fifteen most senior international jurists in the world to rule on something and then ignore them. The EU's credibility on the world stage is built on adhering to international law and persuading others to do likewise. To ignore the ICJ if it's ruling goes against the UDI would leave the EU open to accusations of hypocrisy on a massive scale and undermine its standing enormously. EU leaders know this, even though they pretend for the meanwhile that the ruling will have no significance. It also means that they will have to move to reopen status talks and been seen to try to resolve the matter as soon as possible. This time, however, KAs will need to compromise.

Pristina might like to believe that the ICJ opinion has no real consequence. In reality, it could be more important than you realise and your supporters are willing to admit openly.

Kurti's arrest coming a day after puts the USA judge's resignation in perspective: they dont want Kurti sounding the alarm bells of RE-INTEGRATION W/ SERBIA. But its to Serbia's advantage for Albanian voters to think that nothing has changed.

AdamNYC - you and other KAs can repeat the same old stuff time after time. It will not change anything.

The international system is built on a very particular form of interaction, that places international law at the very heart of things. This was done precisely to get away from the nineteenth century power politics whereby might was right. As a result, all sorts of international legal organisations and bodies have emerged that do have tremendous power.

The idea that because international law does not function in quite the same way as national laws it does not exist is just nonsense - pure and simple.

You might not like the fact that Kosovo's status is contested under international law, but simply to say that international law therefore has no meaning is pointless. If that is the case, and assuming that NATO would not be in a position to intervene (and this is not as unrealistic as it sounds given its commitments elsewhere), then would you accept that Serbia could simply just march back into Kosovo, thereby ignoring the UN resolutions in place?

I thought not!

Personally I am not worried what the Court's Opionion would be mainly because I do know that Serbia has not intention to honour the Court's Opionion should it go against Serbia's expectation. It is a paradox bear in mind that it was Serbia who approched the Court. Secondly whatever the Court says I dont see the very slightest chance a return of Kosovo under Serbia sovereignity. That would mean an all out war and I doubt anyone has got guts for more wars in the Balkans.

Thomas Buergenthal is a survivor of hitler's evil and a leading human rights supporter.

i don't believe for a second that he is supporting serbia's "territorial integrity" (so-called) above the human rights of the people of kosova. that suggestion is bizarre and really inappropriate in light of his past.

but presumably the truth will eventually come out, it always does...

roberto
frisco

The resignation of this honorable judge is nothing new, so there is no need to run into comments for nothing. Google the name of this judge and you can see that he has tendered his resignation while ago and this has nothing to do with Kosovo or any decision. You can see at least 100 hits in google about his resignation which has been intended from the day he got elected.

Sorry for the error in previous post, Buergenthal not Blumenthal.

Jim,

Thanks for understanding my point that

"... Serbia has said that it will not recognise Kosovo's independence despite the Court's ruling.

But on the other side

"Given that the US and others have said that the ruling will change nothing"

That is a political statement

(they too will reject it),

The Court's Opionion is not obligatory. That how it is I am afraid.

then "if Serbia says that it will accept it no matter what, it gives the Court an easy way out."
Why did Serbia apply to the Court then?

To my opinion purely to refrain other countries for further recognitions...

According to Serbia if Court rules in favour of Serbia...the "international law" has prevaled, if tghe Court rules in favour of Kosovo's independence that the Court Opinion would be called "political" by Serbia.

I am preatty sure you will agree with that.

To summarise all this application to ICJ was a waste of time as no party would be interested in respecting its Opinion.

How all this fuss would help in re-instating Serbia's sovereinity over Kosovo...absolutely there is not the slightest chance.

there is a distinct difference between what serbia says... that it will Not respect the decision of the icj, and when countries that have recognized independence say it will change nothing.

the difference being there is no law or organization on earth that can dictate to acountry who they can or cannot recognize...it simply does not exist.

it is pure fallacy and desperation that serbs say otherwise.

the only reason serbia had to insist on an icj ruling was a desperate ploy stalling for time, nothing more as serbia simply has nothing it can do.

serbs have always desperately tried to apply propaganda to every political and legal issue, in this case to argue in the context of western involvement avoiding all responsiblity and reality surrounding yugos breakup.

that helps sooth themsleves as its leadership... as usual feed off of their constituents delusions of victimization by the evil west.

as usual, it has no basis in reality, or law.

Why is it some people are still grasping at straws when it is clear that Serbia has been marginalized. There really is no use discussing Kosovo. Beside, too much time has been wasted trying to convince others that Kosovo somehow will remain a part of Serbia. I guess, when you have no case, you have nothing to lose by bluffing and trying to pretend to be "Baghdad Bob."

Notice how the propagandists are taking advantage of Serbia"s loss to Ghana in order to divert attention away from Serbia's political and financial woes. How can people be so naive.

An American judge resigning is not a good sign for K-Albanians. As for the temporary institutions predictions? Put them up there with other similar failed ones, like KiM being a UN member, Russian recognition of KiM, EU membership and fixing 50% unemployment.

An American judge resigning is not a good sign for K-Albanians. As for the temporary institutions predictions? Put them up there with other similar failed ones, like KiM being a UN member, Russian recognition of KiM, EU membership and fixing 50% unemployment.
(highduke, 12 June 2010 12:56)
If the decision is to be announced in July that means the decision has been made just needs to be transcribed.
As far as the American judge resigning, he will be replaced with another American judge.

An American judge resigning is not a good sign for K-Albanians. As for the temporary institutions predictions? Put them up there with other similar failed ones, like KiM being a UN member, Russian recognition of KiM, EU membership and fixing 50% unemployment.
(highduke, 12 June 2010 12:56)

highduke,

The US judge's resignation goes into effect after the decision is given at the ICJ. This could be interpreted as the US judge has done his job i.e. his vote is for independence. It certainly does not look good for Serbia.

Those who made their wretched reputations on the back of the Kosovo debacle, clinton mafia and assorted hangers on, are desperate for their pet project to succeed. They'll do anything to secure more recognitions. But those with principle know how dreadful the whole thing has become. The bigger States with backbone won't allow themselves to be bullied or coerced by the forces of empire.

Interesting news, is the ICJ decision about to get announced and the US is not going to like it?
Good old americans, if it doesn't go their way they quit!

Personally I am not worried what the Court's Opionion would be mainly because I do know that Serbia has not intention to honour the Court's Opionion should it go against Serbia's expectation. It is a paradox bear in mind that it was Serbia who approched the Court. Secondly whatever the Court says I dont see the very slightest chance a return of Kosovo under Serbia sovereignity. That would mean an all out war and I doubt anyone has got guts for more wars in the Balkans.

@ pss -- didn't the temporary institutions also claim Serbia would recognize KiM among their other miscalculations I listed in my earlier post? Yeah they did. Another Epic Albanian Fail! More recognitions won't change the legality of KiM. BRIC has 2/3 of the world's population and control of UN, economic clout & resource control and US-UK-EU Have neither. Its over for your failed narco-state.

That is not true, PSS. The ICJ does not operate like an Albanian clan, and a resigning judge from the US does not have to be replaced by another US judge. Where do you get your info? Anyway, with internationals familiar with the Kosovo situation, the prevailing feeling is that there will be no black and white decision either way but, remarks will be made in support of upholding international law, otherwise chaos will be unleashed throughout the world where minorities are in conflict with majority governments - starting with the Palestinian situation. We can all stick out our chests like roosters and say this or that either way, but I agree with the consensus opinion that the court will not resolve the Kosovo status issue.

Thomas Buergenthal is a survivor of hitler's evil and a leading human rights supporter.

i don't believe for a second that he is supporting serbia's "territorial integrity" (so-called) above the human rights of the people of kosova. that suggestion is bizarre and really inappropriate in light of his past.

but presumably the truth will eventually come out, it always does...

roberto
frisco

So much speculation. Have any of you considered why the question to the ICJ was so narrow? Basically, is the UDI legal?

If so, then fine. It doesn't ask anyone to recognise Kosovo and we have enough powerful countries blocking independence to ensure the status quo remains. In other words, independence is irreversibly blocked regardless of further recognitions and ICJ decision.

If the court decides this to be illegal then those who have already recognised are doing so against international law. Serbia's territorial integrity will be confirmed.

It seems the question has been designed to do minimal damage if against Serbia and maximum damage if for Serbia. But I think most are expecting something in between, which confirms the status quo. This can only be overcome through further negotiations. Who wants to keep pumping much needed billions into a black hole?

@ Michael R -- Your interpretation is WRONG bc the socialist wreck USA has no economic clout to back up its diplomacy anymore, whereas BRIC does just like the USSR didn't in the 80s. Now RUS-USA positions are REVERSED. Grasp The WIDER Reality and prepare for RE-INTEGRATION W/ SERBIA

highduke is somehow right, but let me enlight all who wants to know facts that I have come across from my sources. Thomas Buergenthal, one of the most skilled international judges have told US over and over again that there is no way whatsoever that the verdict can please the K Albanian side. They can simply not find ANYTHING that justify the proclamation of independence. Therefore, Mr Buergenthal has handed in his resignation after some US diplomats have talked very bad to him. He got very angry and handed in his resignation last week. How I know this. I cannot tell you even if I liked to. But, save this text and check it in 4-5 weeks if I was right or wrong.

Jim,

Thanks for understanding my point that

"... Serbia has said that it will not recognise Kosovo's independence despite the Court's ruling.

But on the other side

"Given that the US and others have said that the ruling will change nothing"

That is a political statement

(they too will reject it),

The Court's Opionion is not obligatory. That how it is I am afraid.

then "if Serbia says that it will accept it no matter what, it gives the Court an easy way out."
Why did Serbia apply to the Court then?

To my opinion purely to refrain other countries for further recognitions...

According to Serbia if Court rules in favour of Serbia...the "international law" has prevaled, if tghe Court rules in favour of Kosovo's independence that the Court Opinion would be called "political" by Serbia.

I am preatty sure you will agree with that.

To summarise all this application to ICJ was a waste of time as no party would be interested in respecting its Opinion.

How all this fuss would help in re-instating Serbia's sovereinity over Kosovo...absolutely there is not the slightest chance.

@ Michael R -- Your interpretation is WRONG bc the socialist wreck USA has no economic clout to back up its diplomacy anymore, whereas BRIC does just like the USSR didn't in the 80s. Now RUS-USA positions are REVERSED. Grasp The WIDER Reality and prepare for RE-INTEGRATION W/ SERBIA
(highduke, 12 June 2010 19:21)

Wow u must be smoking something USA clout is still bigest in the world look at US economy size and look at Russia. Russia is not even in the same discussion.

take BRIC together and they are still smaller than USA alone and can they sustain this 10% groth forever lets see but USA is still force to recon with

The resignation of this honorable judge is nothing new, so there is no need to run into comments for nothing. Google the name of this judge and you can see that he has tendered his resignation while ago and this has nothing to do with Kosovo or any decision. You can see at least 100 hits in google about his resignation which has been intended from the day he got elected.

The American judge may be resigning because the integrity of the court has been compromised and he no longer wants to participate in a Court that had it's independence ripped away from it by Government powers. He was a German Jew that lived through several of Hitler's concentration camps, so he may be particularly sensitive to echo's of 1930's German courts, in which a free and fair process in deriving at a just and proper ruling, was corrupted by government. This resignation could be the Judge's form of retaliation against the Government's that poured on the pressure and made him succumb and feel dirty.

Why is it some people are still grasping at straws when it is clear that Serbia has been marginalized. There really is no use discussing Kosovo. Beside, too much time has been wasted trying to convince others that Kosovo somehow will remain a part of Serbia. I guess, when you have no case, you have nothing to lose by bluffing and trying to pretend to be "Baghdad Bob."

Notice how the propagandists are taking advantage of Serbia"s loss to Ghana in order to divert attention away from Serbia's political and financial woes. How can people be so naive.

there is a distinct difference between what serbia says... that it will Not respect the decision of the icj, and when countries that have recognized independence say it will change nothing.

the difference being there is no law or organization on earth that can dictate to acountry who they can or cannot recognize...it simply does not exist.

it is pure fallacy and desperation that serbs say otherwise.

the only reason serbia had to insist on an icj ruling was a desperate ploy stalling for time, nothing more as serbia simply has nothing it can do.

serbs have always desperately tried to apply propaganda to every political and legal issue, in this case to argue in the context of western involvement avoiding all responsiblity and reality surrounding yugos breakup.

that helps sooth themsleves as its leadership... as usual feed off of their constituents delusions of victimization by the evil west.

as usual, it has no basis in reality, or law.

(Raymond, 12 June 2010 15:08)
If you look at the history of the court, there is always a judge from each of the UNSC permanent member countries. The judge elected has to be done so by the General Assembly and the UNSC. It is also customary that since the judges are elected for 9 years the representing country will name the replacement for the duration of the term.
So while there is a small chance that it could happen that Blumenthal would be replaced by a non-American it is very very small.
As far as resolution of the problem, it has always been my stance that the opinion itself will be useless.
As far as where I get my information, a little research goes a long way.

Kurti's arrest coming a day after puts the USA judge's resignation in perspective: they dont want Kurti sounding the alarm bells of RE-INTEGRATION W/ SERBIA. But its to Serbia's advantage for Albanian voters to think that nothing has changed.

EA - I have said it before, there is a good reason why Serbia has said that it will not recognise Kosovo's independence despite the Court's ruling. Given that the US and others have said that the ruling will change nothing (they too will reject it), then if Serbia says that it will accept it no matter what, it gives the Court an easy way out. Rule in favour independence and solve the matter. In other words, Serbia has been forced into this stand in order to try to minimise the chances of a 'political' decision.

Sorry for the error in previous post, Buergenthal not Blumenthal.

EA - can we get beyond this argument that the ICJ's opinion is 'only' advisory and doesn't matter that much. It does.

For a start, it is binding on UN organs. This would hamper Kosovo's ties with UN bodies even more, and could throw open serious questions about its membership of the IMF and World Bank (officially UN organs, but with different membership criteria).

Secondly, it is nonsense to believe that you can ask the fifteen most senior international jurists in the world to rule on something and then ignore them. The EU's credibility on the world stage is built on adhering to international law and persuading others to do likewise. To ignore the ICJ if it's ruling goes against the UDI would leave the EU open to accusations of hypocrisy on a massive scale and undermine its standing enormously. EU leaders know this, even though they pretend for the meanwhile that the ruling will have no significance. It also means that they will have to move to reopen status talks and been seen to try to resolve the matter as soon as possible. This time, however, KAs will need to compromise.

Pristina might like to believe that the ICJ opinion has no real consequence. In reality, it could be more important than you realise and your supporters are willing to admit openly.

AdamNYC - you and other KAs can repeat the same old stuff time after time. It will not change anything.

The international system is built on a very particular form of interaction, that places international law at the very heart of things. This was done precisely to get away from the nineteenth century power politics whereby might was right. As a result, all sorts of international legal organisations and bodies have emerged that do have tremendous power.

The idea that because international law does not function in quite the same way as national laws it does not exist is just nonsense - pure and simple.

You might not like the fact that Kosovo's status is contested under international law, but simply to say that international law therefore has no meaning is pointless. If that is the case, and assuming that NATO would not be in a position to intervene (and this is not as unrealistic as it sounds given its commitments elsewhere), then would you accept that Serbia could simply just march back into Kosovo, thereby ignoring the UN resolutions in place?

I thought not!