“New Kosovo talks won’t jeopardize stability”

Acceptable solution,negotiations
Do this words ring the bell not so long ago, and at the same time massacring defenceless people in a massive scale.
oli Albanians do not want to have the privilege to be Serbian citizens, thanks but NO. Not in any format or solution.

I feel sorry for the serb people for having a minister like you at their goverment.


Very poor statment against the truth statment of UK ambassador.


But hey be my guesst and go against the 22 powerful countrys of Europe and see what happends.

Then try to convince the 2 million albanians in Kosovo to be part of Serbia and give up their independence.

Maybee sometimes dreams comes true....

You can repeat that Nonsense a million times. Nobody from the Albanian side would ever sit around a table, bargaining with Kosovo's freedom. There is no - peaceful - way to make that happen. Mark that words and stop lying.

End of the story.

To all those who have indulged in wishful thinking about Kosovo now know .Kosovo is lost.Thousands of air miles ,the idiotic nonsense of Yes to EU yes to Kosovo was devised by fools who have betrayed the Serbs ie the Tadic/Jeremic/Dacic regime.
There will be no negotiations.
In the name of the Serbian people Tadic/DS/SPS go.Your pretensions and lies have been shown to be as vacuous as your characters.
Serbian people they have taken you for a ride.

I agree with those that say Kosovo is lost. I have expressed it before, but I think Kosovo was lost long before the wars. Now, it is inconceivable. I also agree with writers who do not think Serbia is well-served by ministers who keep saying they want to be a seroius partner in the EU AND have Kosovo. Vuk annoys the crap out of me. What a horrible representative as a country's "foreign minister."

Serbs have two possibilities: lose Kosovo OR lose both Kosovo and the EU. Too many years have been wasted because of ridiculous innat. There are times where it is admirable to be strong-willed, but this is plain stupidity. Kind of like saying "I will cut off my nose to spite my face."

Serbia is becoming nothing but a pain with little to offer. The EU cannot handle any more problems, particularly without a significant advantage. The EU will certainly NOT entertain the possibility of another Cyprus. Enough.

Serbia must be stable, and it can only be stabilized with new negotiations that would lead to an acceptable solution,” Ivanović said.


wait a minute Oli, Ithought Serbia is the most stable country and the most important regional player in this part of the world(Balkans). wow, I am shocked at your analogy about your Serbia's stability.

Tajkovic said earlier today that Belgrade does not have the capacity to hold talks with Kosovo and that all that it could do at this moment in time is to try to lobby for a better outcome from the advisory opinion of the ICJ.

Looks like Belgrade is stuck in delusions, even when UK minister and a Serb on the field tell Belgrade the reality...Belgrade is just stuck.

Are you INSANE!? There are more chances of war breaking out then any statuts talks. No, not even Thaci or Haradinaj can force the public to accept such a ridiculous proposal.

I think there will be new talks after the ICJ ruling. But it won't be about (re-)integration of Kosovo into Serbia, but about a split into a northern and a southern part, accepted by both parties. The only viable solution to get out of the current mess and limbo state.

No you are wrong Peggy. You are supposing that Milosevic came to power in 1999 and oh poor Sloba found himself in this situation where he was forced to capitulate.

It is internal strife that allowed external countries to interfere. Its the job of leaders of countries to prevent that from happening.

As far as Kosovo was concerned even during the break up / war of the Balkans almost all nation states (to the frustration of Kosovo Albanians and their leaders) supported Serbian soverignty over Kosovo.

Even in 1998 when Kosovo Albanian leaders and NGO's were involved in diplomatic campaigns, lobbying western capitals, they could not receive assurances that western countries would intervene. I know because I spoke to these Albanian teams who would come out of these meetings despondent.

It was the heavy handedness of Serb forces coupled with the negative coverage of the media that finally tipped the balance.

So even if you are right that the US was prepared to dismember Jugoslavija / Serbia just so it could have a few bases in its country, that frankly, under different circumstances, I think Sloba would have been happy to accomodate, it was a series of events that led to Milosevic's capitulation. Some of those events he had control of, but as usual, he made a mess of it.

It would be nice to blame Tudjman, but the fact is that for the Kosovo case he is not to blame. Not only that, but Tudjman was not concerned with the fate of Kosovo. Or more precisely he was only concerned about the fate of Kosovo to the extent which it could aid his Croatian project.

I do find the opinion that one has no control whatever over a situation absurd. One always has choices - the choice from Milosevic's perspective was simple - stay in power at all costs, whether that means Kosovo is lost or not is less important.

The important thing was to sell it to the Serbian people that he was forced. That was his only card left. He felt a diplomatic compromise with Albanians would be seen as a defeat at home, so it was better to go to war (and lose).

I should add that due to the demographics of Kosovo and principle of self determination Kosovo independence was always going to be on the agenda at some point. However, Serbia would never have found herself in such a weak position as she is in now.

For that we have Sloba to thank.

wait a minute Oli, Ithought Serbia is the most stable country and the most important regional player in this part of the world(Balkans). wow, I am shocked at your analogy about your Serbia's stability.
(Kosova-USA, 6 June 2010 15:39)

If you actually read the article he is not saying Serbia is unstable, he is commenting that in order to maintain stability then an acceptable solution needs to be discussed by ALL sides. Is he not simply advocating that all concerned sit down and discuss the issues in a reasoned and pragmatic way? Surely this is just good common sense? Why are so many so quick to take anything said by Serbia to mean the very worst and very negative things. Read the comments more clearly and take a more reasoned approach to your own comments, please. Given that everyone now suddenly dcides that Kosovo and Serbias entry to EU are completely interlinked despite numerous assurances and statements in the past to the contrary, I feel that Serbia's continued diplomatic stances is to be commended. I wonder how many other governments faced with such hypocracy and double standards would remain so focused on the realities and the diplomatic efforts required. Not many I would suggest.

There should be talks - we cannot have the autonomy of Albanians confused with the ownership of Kosovo. Currently there is a deliberate attempt to fuse the two into the recognition of Kosova. Freedom and autonomy for Albanians does not and should not involve the ownership of Kosovo. Albanians already have their own country aka Albania.

So Nik what is your proposal as to opposed to the Serbian diplomatic strategy?

Let me guess; send in the Serbian army be defeated by NATO and live under foreign occupation. Soon after Bujanovac etc becomes part of Kosova and Vojvodina becomes an independent state.

Or is there some other idea that you have in mind, Einstein?

The fact is that we find ourselves in this very difficult situation. It is not Tadic, nor even Kostunica's fault that NATO occupied Kosovo. In the Serbian context it was the policies of Milosevic and Seselj that led to UDI, not the fault of the post 2000 politicians.

bganon, you are right in your analysis but you stopped short going all the way to the end.

As you say, Milosevic created an excellent opportunity for K-Albanians to claim their independence. However even right after the war, the West was not yet 100% behind this. The west still saw K. as part of Serbia and 1244, UNMIK, and all the structures put in place after the war were designed to leave the K. question still open. I sincerely believe that Int. Community was hoping for reconciliation between two parties and for a solution with as little complexities as possible. Such a solution would have been re-integration of K. into Serbia, hopefully convincing K-Albanians.
No one can say for sure if this was to happen or if there was any way to convince K-Albanians to accept such deal, but at least Int. community tried. The truth remains that the consecutive Serb governments pursued an hostile and derogatory policy towards a population that had just returned from the brink of extinction due to the deeds of Serbia herself. We can go on forever on who fired the first shot but a politician like Kostunica, who refused even to breath in the same room with K-Albanian representatives, was as bad for Serbia as was Milosevic.
I am convinced that if Dinjic was alive, Serbia still had a chance to hold onto K. As usual Serbia shot herself in the foot once again with its un-controlled nationalism. The ordinary people are allowed to be nationalistic and say whatever they feel but a diplomat and a politician, especially under circumstances is not. Do you really believe that Sejdiu and Thaci are longing to have a hug by Tadic? Do you really believe that there is love towards Serbia by K-Albanians after all these years? Yet their leaders speak of Serbia as their neigbor they want to be friend with. It's a complete BS but it's the only BS that works.
I always believed that we Albanians are the most hot-tempered nation in the Ballkans, I have been mistaken as Serbs overpass them ten times. Personally I see K-Independence not as a goal on its own but rather than as a solution to preserve peace. If Serbian government was able to convince K-Albanians to remain part of Serbia, I would have no problem with that, however I gets irritated when the language coming from Serbia to this day is that of a bully trying to continue to torment its victim after putting it through a near death experience.

But the people themselves can force Thaci to accept it.
I think if people were free to speak their own mind and not be scared of KLA they might decide that living in "Kosova" (a self imposed prison) is not such a good idea and that autonomy within Serbia offers them a much better life.

Not all K-Albanians were against living withing Serbia but were "persuaded" by KLA to accept whatever Thaci was offering.
(Peggy, 7 June 2010 01:26)
In the 3 years I was in Kosovo and speaking to many, many people I have to totally disagree.
While the people look for a happier life, the number is minute that think this would be possible as part of Serbia.
Once a person has been burned they become very reluctant to come close to the fire again.

Miri goes to show if you tell the truth it will be recognised!

There are nuances in the Serbian context agreed and the view of those such as Kostunica was to delay tackling the Kosovo issue. And the view of Djindjic was that it was time to tackle it head on. And yes Djindjic historically had the ear of more western leaders than the current Serbian government.

Nevertheless the fact remains that the US is / was implacably opposed to any alterations in Kosovo status. The only way Djindjic would have been able to have changed that was by gaining the support of EU countries or trying to deal with Kosovo Albanians directly.

Neither approach would have worked; the Kosovo issue isn't important enough for EU leaders to oppose the US. And Albanian leaders are opposed to negotiations now, never mind when the events of 1999 were still fresh in the minds of Albanians. It may have provided something like a framework for future talks though and unofficial / low level negotiations may have taken place.

Don't mistake my analysis for the tone of somebody who has accepted defeat. I am simply realistic about what happened and what is happening today and ready for a fair compromise.

No, I don't think there is any 'love lost' between Tadic and Kosovo Albanian leaders. But I also believe that at least some of your leaders are actually quite pragmatic. They are afraid of the reaction of Kosovo Albanian people, (which would be exagerrated and manipulated by their political opponents).

Tadic himself has made his political career on being a moderate deal maker. Kosovo Albanians may not like him, but they have no reason to hate him either.

Peggy I am quite sure because I spent so much time living these events as they unfolded.

Later I studied them and later yet I was involved in them to some degree.

We were talking about Kosovo. Whereas Tudjman certainly holds plenty of blame for the break up of Jugoslavija the Kosovo situation cannot be blamed on him directly. As I pointed out he was not interested in Kosovo, or the rights of Kosovo Albanians insomuch as it didn't affect his own project.

The Slovenes on the other hand hold more responsiblity for what unfolded in Kosovo in some senses, as they were using the Kosovo issue to demand either decreased amounts of federal funds going there, or a greater say in Kosovo's affairs - ie more autonomy for Kosovo. This was also a way of stemming Serbia's power in the federal presidency. There was also a more genuine element of solidarity between Slovenian and Kosovo (mainly Albanian) workers - the coal miners issue is quite well documented even in the English language.

However, Milosevic had a choice how to handle the Kosovo issue. He chose to use it to help propel him to power. Even after this he could have changed tack many times, but instead he chose to revoke a bit of autonomy and essentially persue a policy of doing nothing. He allowed Albanians in Kosovo to nation build with parallel institutions. He allowed them to organise their own elections.

It is no wonder that all this culminated in war abd UDI. History will record these events as they unfolded in context.

I don't believe in many truths. In fact I sometimes suspect that people who claim that there are many truths are scoundrels. That is no excuse.

There is only one truth, what really happened. Whether people choose to exaggerate, lie, to paint a better picture of their own side etc does not mean it is true.

The fact is that we find ourselves in this very difficult situation. It is not Tadic, nor even Kostunica's fault that NATO occupied Kosovo. In the Serbian context it was the policies of Milosevic and Seselj that led to UDI, not the fault of the post 2000 politicians.
(bganon, 6 June 2010 17:39)
=====================

Wrong. The only people able to stop this would've been the politicans prepared to offer the US bases on Serbian soil. This was in the plans prior to any conflict in Yugoslavia. If you think that Milosevic is to blame for this then you are dead wrong.
You might as well blame Tudjman as well. The two worked very well together for a while and their plans to divide Bosnia are well known.

Nobody could've prevented secession of Kosovo unless they surrendered to the US.

There shall be no links Serbia,EU and Kosovo.British ambassador should learn that no Serbian politician can unilaterally give the KOsovo to Albanians who are destroying our churches and monasteries,desecrating our graves and bombing our school buses. Over the years British Government done nothing but the harm to Serbian Nation.Who needs friends like them?

Pejoni when you say there is more chance of war breaking out than more talks are you saying you personally prefer war to talks?

Just wondering if you go along with what you think the public believes or if you have a different opinion.

Charli Serbia has little to lose taking this position in terms of EU. EU membership is not on offer at the moment anyway. As with many things away from the headlines 'Kosovo or EU' etc there are problems with the government strategy.

In terms of diplomacy battles are usually fought carefully. Whilst Serbia is using all its might to persue its Kosovo policy, it will have to back down on other issues. Simply put one cannot fight on too many fronts at the same time. Likewise one only has limited resources and must decide how those resources are best spent.

In theory if those resources are being used on fighting a losing battle, it is a double loss for a country.

miri said:

"The truth remains that the consecutive Serb governments pursued an hostile and derogatory policy towards a population that had just returned from the brink of extinction due to the deeds of Serbia herself."
====================

Wow, can you please add a little more drama please.
Not even the Jews were on the brink of extinction and was after 6 million of them were killed.

Are you INSANE!? There are more chances of war breaking out then any statuts talks. No, not even Thaci or Haradinaj can force the public to accept such a ridiculous proposal.
(Pejoni, 6 June 2010 19:10)
=========================

But the people themselves can force Thaci to accept it.
I think if people were free to speak their own mind and not be scared of KLA they might decide that living in "Kosova" (a self imposed prison) is not such a good idea and that autonomy within Serbia offers them a much better life.

Not all K-Albanians were against living withing Serbia but were "persuaded" by KLA to accept whatever Thaci was offering.

While the people look for a happier life, the number is minute that think this would be possible as part of Serbia.
Once a person has been burned they become very reluctant to come close to the fire again.
(pss, 7 June 2010 11:43)
==========================

You certainly were not as burned as the Serbs in Croatia during WW2 and even in the 90s.
The Serbs of Bosnia did not have an easy time either during WW2 and in the 90s and here we are expecing them to live in Croatia and accept the same people who have tried to exterminate them on more than one occasion.
Other people have accepted living in the same country as the people they were at war previously. War is brutal no matter who wages it but peace must follow and recociliations happen. Serbs have to accept living in the same country with you too. What do you think? Serbs did not suffer at the hands of KLA?

Bottom line Kosovo was and is part of Serbia. Being through a war of your own making by provoking till something happened does not entitle you to make off with someone else's land.

Instability inside Serbia isn't Kosovo's problem.

Bgannon wrote:

"It would be nice to blame Tudjman, but the fact is that for the Kosovo case he is not to blame. Not only that, but Tudjman was not concerned with the fate of Kosovo. Or more precisely he was only concerned about the fate of Kosovo to the extent which it could aid his Croatian project."
===================

Tudjman is to blame for just as much as Slobo. They were all up there in the positions able to prevent unrest but did not. If anything Tudjman started the unrest himself by smuggling arms into Croatia through Hungarian border. That was treason. He was preparing to wage war on his own country.

Now with all this mess going on and Serbs copping a bad name it was only timely that KLA rose up and stepped up their provocations knowing full well what Slobo would do.
So, yes, you can blame them all and not just Slobo as you so very much want to.
It's not as black and white as you portray it.
KLA used the opportunity to draw fire on themselves using the civilian population as their shield.

You seem to sure that I am wrong and you are right.
Well, I won't go as far as guarantee my opinion and say falt out that you are wrong but there is more than one truth out there.

Acceptable solution,negotiations
Do this words ring the bell not so long ago, and at the same time massacring defenceless people in a massive scale.
oli Albanians do not want to have the privilege to be Serbian citizens, thanks but NO. Not in any format or solution.

I feel sorry for the serb people for having a minister like you at their goverment.


Very poor statment against the truth statment of UK ambassador.


But hey be my guesst and go against the 22 powerful countrys of Europe and see what happends.

Then try to convince the 2 million albanians in Kosovo to be part of Serbia and give up their independence.

Maybee sometimes dreams comes true....

You can repeat that Nonsense a million times. Nobody from the Albanian side would ever sit around a table, bargaining with Kosovo's freedom. There is no - peaceful - way to make that happen. Mark that words and stop lying.

End of the story.

I think there will be new talks after the ICJ ruling. But it won't be about (re-)integration of Kosovo into Serbia, but about a split into a northern and a southern part, accepted by both parties. The only viable solution to get out of the current mess and limbo state.

To all those who have indulged in wishful thinking about Kosovo now know .Kosovo is lost.Thousands of air miles ,the idiotic nonsense of Yes to EU yes to Kosovo was devised by fools who have betrayed the Serbs ie the Tadic/Jeremic/Dacic regime.
There will be no negotiations.
In the name of the Serbian people Tadic/DS/SPS go.Your pretensions and lies have been shown to be as vacuous as your characters.
Serbian people they have taken you for a ride.

There should be talks - we cannot have the autonomy of Albanians confused with the ownership of Kosovo. Currently there is a deliberate attempt to fuse the two into the recognition of Kosova. Freedom and autonomy for Albanians does not and should not involve the ownership of Kosovo. Albanians already have their own country aka Albania.

Serbia must be stable, and it can only be stabilized with new negotiations that would lead to an acceptable solution,” Ivanović said.


wait a minute Oli, Ithought Serbia is the most stable country and the most important regional player in this part of the world(Balkans). wow, I am shocked at your analogy about your Serbia's stability.

Are you INSANE!? There are more chances of war breaking out then any statuts talks. No, not even Thaci or Haradinaj can force the public to accept such a ridiculous proposal.

Tajkovic said earlier today that Belgrade does not have the capacity to hold talks with Kosovo and that all that it could do at this moment in time is to try to lobby for a better outcome from the advisory opinion of the ICJ.

Looks like Belgrade is stuck in delusions, even when UK minister and a Serb on the field tell Belgrade the reality...Belgrade is just stuck.

I agree with those that say Kosovo is lost. I have expressed it before, but I think Kosovo was lost long before the wars. Now, it is inconceivable. I also agree with writers who do not think Serbia is well-served by ministers who keep saying they want to be a seroius partner in the EU AND have Kosovo. Vuk annoys the crap out of me. What a horrible representative as a country's "foreign minister."

Serbs have two possibilities: lose Kosovo OR lose both Kosovo and the EU. Too many years have been wasted because of ridiculous innat. There are times where it is admirable to be strong-willed, but this is plain stupidity. Kind of like saying "I will cut off my nose to spite my face."

Serbia is becoming nothing but a pain with little to offer. The EU cannot handle any more problems, particularly without a significant advantage. The EU will certainly NOT entertain the possibility of another Cyprus. Enough.

So Nik what is your proposal as to opposed to the Serbian diplomatic strategy?

Let me guess; send in the Serbian army be defeated by NATO and live under foreign occupation. Soon after Bujanovac etc becomes part of Kosova and Vojvodina becomes an independent state.

Or is there some other idea that you have in mind, Einstein?

The fact is that we find ourselves in this very difficult situation. It is not Tadic, nor even Kostunica's fault that NATO occupied Kosovo. In the Serbian context it was the policies of Milosevic and Seselj that led to UDI, not the fault of the post 2000 politicians.

wait a minute Oli, Ithought Serbia is the most stable country and the most important regional player in this part of the world(Balkans). wow, I am shocked at your analogy about your Serbia's stability.
(Kosova-USA, 6 June 2010 15:39)

If you actually read the article he is not saying Serbia is unstable, he is commenting that in order to maintain stability then an acceptable solution needs to be discussed by ALL sides. Is he not simply advocating that all concerned sit down and discuss the issues in a reasoned and pragmatic way? Surely this is just good common sense? Why are so many so quick to take anything said by Serbia to mean the very worst and very negative things. Read the comments more clearly and take a more reasoned approach to your own comments, please. Given that everyone now suddenly dcides that Kosovo and Serbias entry to EU are completely interlinked despite numerous assurances and statements in the past to the contrary, I feel that Serbia's continued diplomatic stances is to be commended. I wonder how many other governments faced with such hypocracy and double standards would remain so focused on the realities and the diplomatic efforts required. Not many I would suggest.

Are you INSANE!? There are more chances of war breaking out then any statuts talks. No, not even Thaci or Haradinaj can force the public to accept such a ridiculous proposal.
(Pejoni, 6 June 2010 19:10)
=========================

But the people themselves can force Thaci to accept it.
I think if people were free to speak their own mind and not be scared of KLA they might decide that living in "Kosova" (a self imposed prison) is not such a good idea and that autonomy within Serbia offers them a much better life.

Not all K-Albanians were against living withing Serbia but were "persuaded" by KLA to accept whatever Thaci was offering.

Bgannon wrote:

"It would be nice to blame Tudjman, but the fact is that for the Kosovo case he is not to blame. Not only that, but Tudjman was not concerned with the fate of Kosovo. Or more precisely he was only concerned about the fate of Kosovo to the extent which it could aid his Croatian project."
===================

Tudjman is to blame for just as much as Slobo. They were all up there in the positions able to prevent unrest but did not. If anything Tudjman started the unrest himself by smuggling arms into Croatia through Hungarian border. That was treason. He was preparing to wage war on his own country.

Now with all this mess going on and Serbs copping a bad name it was only timely that KLA rose up and stepped up their provocations knowing full well what Slobo would do.
So, yes, you can blame them all and not just Slobo as you so very much want to.
It's not as black and white as you portray it.
KLA used the opportunity to draw fire on themselves using the civilian population as their shield.

You seem to sure that I am wrong and you are right.
Well, I won't go as far as guarantee my opinion and say falt out that you are wrong but there is more than one truth out there.

The fact is that we find ourselves in this very difficult situation. It is not Tadic, nor even Kostunica's fault that NATO occupied Kosovo. In the Serbian context it was the policies of Milosevic and Seselj that led to UDI, not the fault of the post 2000 politicians.
(bganon, 6 June 2010 17:39)
=====================

Wrong. The only people able to stop this would've been the politicans prepared to offer the US bases on Serbian soil. This was in the plans prior to any conflict in Yugoslavia. If you think that Milosevic is to blame for this then you are dead wrong.
You might as well blame Tudjman as well. The two worked very well together for a while and their plans to divide Bosnia are well known.

Nobody could've prevented secession of Kosovo unless they surrendered to the US.

There shall be no links Serbia,EU and Kosovo.British ambassador should learn that no Serbian politician can unilaterally give the KOsovo to Albanians who are destroying our churches and monasteries,desecrating our graves and bombing our school buses. Over the years British Government done nothing but the harm to Serbian Nation.Who needs friends like them?

miri said:

"The truth remains that the consecutive Serb governments pursued an hostile and derogatory policy towards a population that had just returned from the brink of extinction due to the deeds of Serbia herself."
====================

Wow, can you please add a little more drama please.
Not even the Jews were on the brink of extinction and was after 6 million of them were killed.

While the people look for a happier life, the number is minute that think this would be possible as part of Serbia.
Once a person has been burned they become very reluctant to come close to the fire again.
(pss, 7 June 2010 11:43)
==========================

You certainly were not as burned as the Serbs in Croatia during WW2 and even in the 90s.
The Serbs of Bosnia did not have an easy time either during WW2 and in the 90s and here we are expecing them to live in Croatia and accept the same people who have tried to exterminate them on more than one occasion.
Other people have accepted living in the same country as the people they were at war previously. War is brutal no matter who wages it but peace must follow and recociliations happen. Serbs have to accept living in the same country with you too. What do you think? Serbs did not suffer at the hands of KLA?

Bottom line Kosovo was and is part of Serbia. Being through a war of your own making by provoking till something happened does not entitle you to make off with someone else's land.

Instability inside Serbia isn't Kosovo's problem.

No you are wrong Peggy. You are supposing that Milosevic came to power in 1999 and oh poor Sloba found himself in this situation where he was forced to capitulate.

It is internal strife that allowed external countries to interfere. Its the job of leaders of countries to prevent that from happening.

As far as Kosovo was concerned even during the break up / war of the Balkans almost all nation states (to the frustration of Kosovo Albanians and their leaders) supported Serbian soverignty over Kosovo.

Even in 1998 when Kosovo Albanian leaders and NGO's were involved in diplomatic campaigns, lobbying western capitals, they could not receive assurances that western countries would intervene. I know because I spoke to these Albanian teams who would come out of these meetings despondent.

It was the heavy handedness of Serb forces coupled with the negative coverage of the media that finally tipped the balance.

So even if you are right that the US was prepared to dismember Jugoslavija / Serbia just so it could have a few bases in its country, that frankly, under different circumstances, I think Sloba would have been happy to accomodate, it was a series of events that led to Milosevic's capitulation. Some of those events he had control of, but as usual, he made a mess of it.

It would be nice to blame Tudjman, but the fact is that for the Kosovo case he is not to blame. Not only that, but Tudjman was not concerned with the fate of Kosovo. Or more precisely he was only concerned about the fate of Kosovo to the extent which it could aid his Croatian project.

I do find the opinion that one has no control whatever over a situation absurd. One always has choices - the choice from Milosevic's perspective was simple - stay in power at all costs, whether that means Kosovo is lost or not is less important.

The important thing was to sell it to the Serbian people that he was forced. That was his only card left. He felt a diplomatic compromise with Albanians would be seen as a defeat at home, so it was better to go to war (and lose).

I should add that due to the demographics of Kosovo and principle of self determination Kosovo independence was always going to be on the agenda at some point. However, Serbia would never have found herself in such a weak position as she is in now.

For that we have Sloba to thank.

Miri goes to show if you tell the truth it will be recognised!

There are nuances in the Serbian context agreed and the view of those such as Kostunica was to delay tackling the Kosovo issue. And the view of Djindjic was that it was time to tackle it head on. And yes Djindjic historically had the ear of more western leaders than the current Serbian government.

Nevertheless the fact remains that the US is / was implacably opposed to any alterations in Kosovo status. The only way Djindjic would have been able to have changed that was by gaining the support of EU countries or trying to deal with Kosovo Albanians directly.

Neither approach would have worked; the Kosovo issue isn't important enough for EU leaders to oppose the US. And Albanian leaders are opposed to negotiations now, never mind when the events of 1999 were still fresh in the minds of Albanians. It may have provided something like a framework for future talks though and unofficial / low level negotiations may have taken place.

Don't mistake my analysis for the tone of somebody who has accepted defeat. I am simply realistic about what happened and what is happening today and ready for a fair compromise.

No, I don't think there is any 'love lost' between Tadic and Kosovo Albanian leaders. But I also believe that at least some of your leaders are actually quite pragmatic. They are afraid of the reaction of Kosovo Albanian people, (which would be exagerrated and manipulated by their political opponents).

Tadic himself has made his political career on being a moderate deal maker. Kosovo Albanians may not like him, but they have no reason to hate him either.

Pejoni when you say there is more chance of war breaking out than more talks are you saying you personally prefer war to talks?

Just wondering if you go along with what you think the public believes or if you have a different opinion.

Charli Serbia has little to lose taking this position in terms of EU. EU membership is not on offer at the moment anyway. As with many things away from the headlines 'Kosovo or EU' etc there are problems with the government strategy.

In terms of diplomacy battles are usually fought carefully. Whilst Serbia is using all its might to persue its Kosovo policy, it will have to back down on other issues. Simply put one cannot fight on too many fronts at the same time. Likewise one only has limited resources and must decide how those resources are best spent.

In theory if those resources are being used on fighting a losing battle, it is a double loss for a country.

bganon, you are right in your analysis but you stopped short going all the way to the end.

As you say, Milosevic created an excellent opportunity for K-Albanians to claim their independence. However even right after the war, the West was not yet 100% behind this. The west still saw K. as part of Serbia and 1244, UNMIK, and all the structures put in place after the war were designed to leave the K. question still open. I sincerely believe that Int. Community was hoping for reconciliation between two parties and for a solution with as little complexities as possible. Such a solution would have been re-integration of K. into Serbia, hopefully convincing K-Albanians.
No one can say for sure if this was to happen or if there was any way to convince K-Albanians to accept such deal, but at least Int. community tried. The truth remains that the consecutive Serb governments pursued an hostile and derogatory policy towards a population that had just returned from the brink of extinction due to the deeds of Serbia herself. We can go on forever on who fired the first shot but a politician like Kostunica, who refused even to breath in the same room with K-Albanian representatives, was as bad for Serbia as was Milosevic.
I am convinced that if Dinjic was alive, Serbia still had a chance to hold onto K. As usual Serbia shot herself in the foot once again with its un-controlled nationalism. The ordinary people are allowed to be nationalistic and say whatever they feel but a diplomat and a politician, especially under circumstances is not. Do you really believe that Sejdiu and Thaci are longing to have a hug by Tadic? Do you really believe that there is love towards Serbia by K-Albanians after all these years? Yet their leaders speak of Serbia as their neigbor they want to be friend with. It's a complete BS but it's the only BS that works.
I always believed that we Albanians are the most hot-tempered nation in the Ballkans, I have been mistaken as Serbs overpass them ten times. Personally I see K-Independence not as a goal on its own but rather than as a solution to preserve peace. If Serbian government was able to convince K-Albanians to remain part of Serbia, I would have no problem with that, however I gets irritated when the language coming from Serbia to this day is that of a bully trying to continue to torment its victim after putting it through a near death experience.

But the people themselves can force Thaci to accept it.
I think if people were free to speak their own mind and not be scared of KLA they might decide that living in "Kosova" (a self imposed prison) is not such a good idea and that autonomy within Serbia offers them a much better life.

Not all K-Albanians were against living withing Serbia but were "persuaded" by KLA to accept whatever Thaci was offering.
(Peggy, 7 June 2010 01:26)
In the 3 years I was in Kosovo and speaking to many, many people I have to totally disagree.
While the people look for a happier life, the number is minute that think this would be possible as part of Serbia.
Once a person has been burned they become very reluctant to come close to the fire again.

Peggy I am quite sure because I spent so much time living these events as they unfolded.

Later I studied them and later yet I was involved in them to some degree.

We were talking about Kosovo. Whereas Tudjman certainly holds plenty of blame for the break up of Jugoslavija the Kosovo situation cannot be blamed on him directly. As I pointed out he was not interested in Kosovo, or the rights of Kosovo Albanians insomuch as it didn't affect his own project.

The Slovenes on the other hand hold more responsiblity for what unfolded in Kosovo in some senses, as they were using the Kosovo issue to demand either decreased amounts of federal funds going there, or a greater say in Kosovo's affairs - ie more autonomy for Kosovo. This was also a way of stemming Serbia's power in the federal presidency. There was also a more genuine element of solidarity between Slovenian and Kosovo (mainly Albanian) workers - the coal miners issue is quite well documented even in the English language.

However, Milosevic had a choice how to handle the Kosovo issue. He chose to use it to help propel him to power. Even after this he could have changed tack many times, but instead he chose to revoke a bit of autonomy and essentially persue a policy of doing nothing. He allowed Albanians in Kosovo to nation build with parallel institutions. He allowed them to organise their own elections.

It is no wonder that all this culminated in war abd UDI. History will record these events as they unfolded in context.

I don't believe in many truths. In fact I sometimes suspect that people who claim that there are many truths are scoundrels. That is no excuse.

There is only one truth, what really happened. Whether people choose to exaggerate, lie, to paint a better picture of their own side etc does not mean it is true.