Turkish parliament on ties with Israel

LOL the Turks need Israel more than Israel needs them.
(mark, 3 June 2010 13:51)

The sad truth is that nobody needs Israel.The whole world has been her hostage to certain degree for more than 6 decades.Israel is just an unnecessry source of problems.

It seems highly suspicious for a country that has a well documented history of genocide against Greeks and Armenians and repression against 20milion Kurds to claimm the moral ground as far as the rights of Palestinian are concerned.

One cannot fail to sense a full scale of re-allighment of Turkish foreign policy towards Iran and Syria and the islamic world in general and Erdogan was probably looking for the smoking gun which was presented to him with the flotilla incident.

The palestinian people are the only pawns in this game of tit for tat between Israel
and Turkey.The current three year Israeli blockade which is illegal under international law still continues.

Israel cannot continue with this policy indefinitely.

LOL the Turks need Israel more than Israel needs them.

So...let's see..Erdogan and Gul are finally showing their true intentions, they are hamas supporting fundamentalists. Didn't take them long did it? Funnily enough, they kick off about this but do nothing about Christians who are being murdered in Turkey. So Mr Gul and Mr Erdogan, why don't you both stop spoting off about human rights in Israel, and look to your own country, because your human rights records are well below those of Israel. I'm sure Turkey has displaced more Kurds, Greeks, Armenians, Bulgars, and Christians etc then Israel has Palestinians. I hope to god the Turkish military step in soon and re-assert the principles of Turkeys saviour ATATURK, and get that mob out of Ankara, taking their headscarf clad wives with them. And for those of you going on about the USA, people being lapdogs etc, please please play another tune, because sooner or later if we are not careful we may all be mraching to the beat of the Islamic drum. I am proud of my Eastern (Christian Turkish) Heritage but i am thankful my ancestors moved to the West.

The sad truth is that nobody needs Israel.The whole world has been her hostage to certain degree for more than 6 decades.Israel is just an unnecessry source of problems.
(szemi, 3 June 2010 17:26

The sad truth is that uncle sam needs a policeman in Middle East which holds half of the world's known energy reserves.

Israel is an extension of the US itself.They're armed to their teeth with modern weaponry(nuclear as well) and they're allowed to pursue apartheid policies against the Palestinians with impunity.

You made a very valid point in one of your comments the other day by saying that Israel's attitude towards the Palestinians won't change as long as it receives the financial support and diplomatic alibi from the US.That's reality.

Heard on the news that the orginizers of these ships are supporting radical islamist movements all over the middle east. Perhaps they are not as innocent as people might think. With that in mind it is no surprise to me that the Israelis wanted to stop the convoy.

One cannot fail to sense a full scale of re-allighment of Turkish foreign policy towards Iran and Syria and the islamic world in general and Erdogan was probably looking for the smoking gun which was presented to him with the flotilla incident.

The palestinian people are the only pawns in this game of tit for tat between Israel
and Turkey".
Leonidas

You are absolutely right. This Turkish re-alignement will be very visible in the future. On the other hand Israel will gain by it because the US will need Israel even more as an ally.
At least the positions will be clear. Since 2003 Turkey is just a nominal NATO partner anyway, pretty useless. Thinking further ahead a radical islamist Turkey will represent even less attraction for the EU. Bye bye Turkey! Nobody will miss you.

"And if you are familiar with georgian hospitality you can expect same treatment in Lebanon,syria,Jordad and mainly Iran but not in Israel.
szemi

I would like to visite Israel one day. As for those islamic countries of yours never. The strange tought of being by chance in one of those countries - somewhere in the countryside without a hotel - and needing the hospitality of the locals occured to me once or twice. Each time I was horrified by the possible outcome. With a US passport I would not survive the night. With a European passport maybe but I would be captive for a long time subject to a ransom. In Israel - even in the most remote kibbutz - I would not have the slightest fear. I am sure they would treat me decently. And I am sure millions of people would share my opinion.

The sad truth is that nobody needs Israel.The whole world has been her hostage to certain degree for more than 6 decades.Israel is just an unnecessry source of problems.
(szemi, 3 June 2010 17:26)

Szemi - please name a single democratic, secular, progressive country in Middle East.
Yes, I know one. Sadly, ONLY ONE. Remove it - and nothing remains.

OK - with big hesitation and reluctance: Marocco, Tunis, maybe Jordania (BTW: didn't they in Jordania recognize Kosovo and being a bigger lapdog of America than Israel?)

Forget the rest. Long ago Lebanon used to be - not anymore and that "thanks" to Syria.

For most Arab regimes Israel is not the source of problems - just the opposite: if Israel wouldn't exist they would need to invent it. Best excuse to have to hide own failures.

Because nearly every country in the region is just a monumental failure... one country excluded. That country happen to be Israel.

Leonidas, 3 June 2010 15:17
wrote.
The current three year Israeli blockade which is illegal under international law still continues.
Wrong.
Yes it can, according to the law of blockade which was derived from customary international law and codified in the 1909 Declaration of London. It was updated in 1994 in a legally recognized document called the "San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea."
Under some of the key rules, a blockade must be declared and notified to all belligerents and neutral states, access to neutral ports cannot be blocked, and an area can only be blockaded which is under enemy control.
"On the basis that Hamas is the ruling entity of Gaza and Israel is in the midst of an armed struggle against that ruling entity, the blockade is legal,under international law .

This winter it's planed, Szemi - Syria and Jordan included - but not Iran.

My sources report very different things than what you say but let's have the proof.

I would like to visite Israel one day. As for those islamic countries of yours never. The strange tought of being by chance in one of those countries - somewhere in the countryside without a hotel - and needing the hospitality of the locals occured to me once or twice. Each time I was horrified by the possible outcome. With a US passport I would not survive the night. With a European passport maybe but I would be captive for a long time subject to a ransom. In Israel - even in the most remote kibbutz - I would not have the slightest fear. I am sure they would treat me decently. And I am sure millions of people would share my opinion.
(Szamek, 4 June 2010 15:16)

Of course all people will share your opinion who have no direct experiance but are brainwashed by media owned by jews.As to US passport be sure you get better treatment in those countries than in most places in Europe and Israel.I kinow many americans who have been much more satisfied with their visit to arab countries than Israel.In the latter one All they experianced was high level arrogance starting at Ben Gourion Airport.

Szemi - please name a single democratic, secular, progressive country in Middle East.
Yes, I know one. Sadly, ONLY ONE. Remove it - and nothing remains.
(Ataman, 4 June 2010 11:34)

AS far as I know you are not a regular visitor to the region.When it comes to Israel the first word which crosses my mind is Paranoid but far not phenomena like secular,democratic or progressive.This is simply a myth :So take the trouble buy Bp-Tel Aviv BP-Beirut , Bp-Amman and Bp-Damasus round-trip Tickets .In some disount periods they are well under 60 000 Ft(on dec 6th last year I even managed to buy them for 23 500 Ft in case of Israel I was hardly allowed in the country because the fact that I arrived only for 2 days automaticly meant for them that I must be a terrorist)Accomodation at most 25 euroes per day. So once more do exacly what you always recommand to Joe in case of Balkans visit the different countries of the region and then form an opinion.As to Isreal and progressivnes well most coaches are well under Volánbusz level while the local public transport companies run much more underdeveloped buses than BKV and I think it speaks for itself while most peolpe are dressed if they had bought their cloths in Garay square.And as to word DEmocratic I think you are not the person to whom I must explain how widly this word can be used or even misused.Most people who in our region assosiated it with something positive are sick of it nowdays.And if you are familiar with georgian hospitality you can expect same treatment in Lebanon,syria,Jordad and mainly Iran but not in Israel.

Israel killed 4 turkish citizens, the reaction of foreign minister is the least severe that could be expected, you can't just kill 4 citizens of some country and get away with it, even if they were not that innocent, you can not kill an unarmed jut like that, and justify ''they were handling battens and bread knives''...if idf commandos are proffesionals, they could have handled it without a masacre...christians being killed in turkey...., that is stupid propaganda, Turkey is one of the most attracting touristic sites, ho mostly are christians, ask the germans and russians who mostly go there.

LOL the Turks need Israel more than Israel needs them.

LOL the Turks need Israel more than Israel needs them.
(mark, 3 June 2010 13:51)

The sad truth is that nobody needs Israel.The whole world has been her hostage to certain degree for more than 6 decades.Israel is just an unnecessry source of problems.

It seems highly suspicious for a country that has a well documented history of genocide against Greeks and Armenians and repression against 20milion Kurds to claimm the moral ground as far as the rights of Palestinian are concerned.

One cannot fail to sense a full scale of re-allighment of Turkish foreign policy towards Iran and Syria and the islamic world in general and Erdogan was probably looking for the smoking gun which was presented to him with the flotilla incident.

The palestinian people are the only pawns in this game of tit for tat between Israel
and Turkey.The current three year Israeli blockade which is illegal under international law still continues.

Israel cannot continue with this policy indefinitely.

I would like to visite Israel one day. As for those islamic countries of yours never. The strange tought of being by chance in one of those countries - somewhere in the countryside without a hotel - and needing the hospitality of the locals occured to me once or twice. Each time I was horrified by the possible outcome. With a US passport I would not survive the night. With a European passport maybe but I would be captive for a long time subject to a ransom. In Israel - even in the most remote kibbutz - I would not have the slightest fear. I am sure they would treat me decently. And I am sure millions of people would share my opinion.
(Szamek, 4 June 2010 15:16)

Of course all people will share your opinion who have no direct experiance but are brainwashed by media owned by jews.As to US passport be sure you get better treatment in those countries than in most places in Europe and Israel.I kinow many americans who have been much more satisfied with their visit to arab countries than Israel.In the latter one All they experianced was high level arrogance starting at Ben Gourion Airport.

The sad truth is that nobody needs Israel.The whole world has been her hostage to certain degree for more than 6 decades.Israel is just an unnecessry source of problems.
(szemi, 3 June 2010 17:26

The sad truth is that uncle sam needs a policeman in Middle East which holds half of the world's known energy reserves.

Israel is an extension of the US itself.They're armed to their teeth with modern weaponry(nuclear as well) and they're allowed to pursue apartheid policies against the Palestinians with impunity.

You made a very valid point in one of your comments the other day by saying that Israel's attitude towards the Palestinians won't change as long as it receives the financial support and diplomatic alibi from the US.That's reality.

Leonidas, 3 June 2010 15:17
wrote.
The current three year Israeli blockade which is illegal under international law still continues.
Wrong.
Yes it can, according to the law of blockade which was derived from customary international law and codified in the 1909 Declaration of London. It was updated in 1994 in a legally recognized document called the "San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflicts at Sea."
Under some of the key rules, a blockade must be declared and notified to all belligerents and neutral states, access to neutral ports cannot be blocked, and an area can only be blockaded which is under enemy control.
"On the basis that Hamas is the ruling entity of Gaza and Israel is in the midst of an armed struggle against that ruling entity, the blockade is legal,under international law .

So...let's see..Erdogan and Gul are finally showing their true intentions, they are hamas supporting fundamentalists. Didn't take them long did it? Funnily enough, they kick off about this but do nothing about Christians who are being murdered in Turkey. So Mr Gul and Mr Erdogan, why don't you both stop spoting off about human rights in Israel, and look to your own country, because your human rights records are well below those of Israel. I'm sure Turkey has displaced more Kurds, Greeks, Armenians, Bulgars, and Christians etc then Israel has Palestinians. I hope to god the Turkish military step in soon and re-assert the principles of Turkeys saviour ATATURK, and get that mob out of Ankara, taking their headscarf clad wives with them. And for those of you going on about the USA, people being lapdogs etc, please please play another tune, because sooner or later if we are not careful we may all be mraching to the beat of the Islamic drum. I am proud of my Eastern (Christian Turkish) Heritage but i am thankful my ancestors moved to the West.

Szemi - please name a single democratic, secular, progressive country in Middle East.
Yes, I know one. Sadly, ONLY ONE. Remove it - and nothing remains.
(Ataman, 4 June 2010 11:34)

AS far as I know you are not a regular visitor to the region.When it comes to Israel the first word which crosses my mind is Paranoid but far not phenomena like secular,democratic or progressive.This is simply a myth :So take the trouble buy Bp-Tel Aviv BP-Beirut , Bp-Amman and Bp-Damasus round-trip Tickets .In some disount periods they are well under 60 000 Ft(on dec 6th last year I even managed to buy them for 23 500 Ft in case of Israel I was hardly allowed in the country because the fact that I arrived only for 2 days automaticly meant for them that I must be a terrorist)Accomodation at most 25 euroes per day. So once more do exacly what you always recommand to Joe in case of Balkans visit the different countries of the region and then form an opinion.As to Isreal and progressivnes well most coaches are well under Volánbusz level while the local public transport companies run much more underdeveloped buses than BKV and I think it speaks for itself while most peolpe are dressed if they had bought their cloths in Garay square.And as to word DEmocratic I think you are not the person to whom I must explain how widly this word can be used or even misused.Most people who in our region assosiated it with something positive are sick of it nowdays.And if you are familiar with georgian hospitality you can expect same treatment in Lebanon,syria,Jordad and mainly Iran but not in Israel.

"And if you are familiar with georgian hospitality you can expect same treatment in Lebanon,syria,Jordad and mainly Iran but not in Israel.
szemi

I would like to visite Israel one day. As for those islamic countries of yours never. The strange tought of being by chance in one of those countries - somewhere in the countryside without a hotel - and needing the hospitality of the locals occured to me once or twice. Each time I was horrified by the possible outcome. With a US passport I would not survive the night. With a European passport maybe but I would be captive for a long time subject to a ransom. In Israel - even in the most remote kibbutz - I would not have the slightest fear. I am sure they would treat me decently. And I am sure millions of people would share my opinion.

Israel killed 4 turkish citizens, the reaction of foreign minister is the least severe that could be expected, you can't just kill 4 citizens of some country and get away with it, even if they were not that innocent, you can not kill an unarmed jut like that, and justify ''they were handling battens and bread knives''...if idf commandos are proffesionals, they could have handled it without a masacre...christians being killed in turkey...., that is stupid propaganda, Turkey is one of the most attracting touristic sites, ho mostly are christians, ask the germans and russians who mostly go there.

Heard on the news that the orginizers of these ships are supporting radical islamist movements all over the middle east. Perhaps they are not as innocent as people might think. With that in mind it is no surprise to me that the Israelis wanted to stop the convoy.

One cannot fail to sense a full scale of re-allighment of Turkish foreign policy towards Iran and Syria and the islamic world in general and Erdogan was probably looking for the smoking gun which was presented to him with the flotilla incident.

The palestinian people are the only pawns in this game of tit for tat between Israel
and Turkey".
Leonidas

You are absolutely right. This Turkish re-alignement will be very visible in the future. On the other hand Israel will gain by it because the US will need Israel even more as an ally.
At least the positions will be clear. Since 2003 Turkey is just a nominal NATO partner anyway, pretty useless. Thinking further ahead a radical islamist Turkey will represent even less attraction for the EU. Bye bye Turkey! Nobody will miss you.

The sad truth is that nobody needs Israel.The whole world has been her hostage to certain degree for more than 6 decades.Israel is just an unnecessry source of problems.
(szemi, 3 June 2010 17:26)

Szemi - please name a single democratic, secular, progressive country in Middle East.
Yes, I know one. Sadly, ONLY ONE. Remove it - and nothing remains.

OK - with big hesitation and reluctance: Marocco, Tunis, maybe Jordania (BTW: didn't they in Jordania recognize Kosovo and being a bigger lapdog of America than Israel?)

Forget the rest. Long ago Lebanon used to be - not anymore and that "thanks" to Syria.

For most Arab regimes Israel is not the source of problems - just the opposite: if Israel wouldn't exist they would need to invent it. Best excuse to have to hide own failures.

Because nearly every country in the region is just a monumental failure... one country excluded. That country happen to be Israel.

This winter it's planed, Szemi - Syria and Jordan included - but not Iran.

My sources report very different things than what you say but let's have the proof.