In news today they are reverting to calling it a "suspected" mass grave - they haven't actually unearthed anything, meaning it was pure sensationalist propaganda.
Meanwhile there is a report of unearthing 8 bodies in Kosovo - in a village the KLA operated - yet no headlines of a mass grave and no claim as to who they were.
You have exposed roberto from frisco, our self appointed 'moral guardian' as nothing more than the two faced hypocrite for what he really is.
(Niall O'Doherty, 13 May 2010 16:47)
He is not a hypocrite. Roberto strongly believes, he is correct. I strongly believe, he is not. Do not want to play a psychoanalyst but what I can describe as a "blind hatred" has own psychologic reasons. Hopefully one day he will overcome these reasons.
Ataman, what a superb post. I could not put it better myself.
You have exposed roberto from frisco, our self appointed 'moral guardian' as nothing more than the two faced hypocrite for what he really is.
His plattitudes and crocodile tears are one thing but his continued dismissiveness of war crimes carried out by his Albanian, Bosnian and Croatian chums is stomach churning. What do you expect from a fraud.
you know, johny, for a brief moment this week, after the news of yet another mass grave (of albanian civilians, this time) became public, i really felt a kind of change. not that it was a shock to us, since we knew and know there are others, just not the exact locations, and have been announcing it whenever allowed.
roberto frisco
(roberto, 12 May 2010 21:48)
Please read the article. It's not even clear that a grave is there - but you already know, the victims were Albanian civilians. At least waiting till it is clarified and investigating by EULEX wouldn't be proper?
At the same time - every time "Yellow House" is mentioned you call is BS and insult the potential victims. How you spell "hypocrisy"? I still remember the time Carla del Ponte was the Queen of Balkans - now after she wrote what she wrote - she is now the Wicked Witch. But only if it is about "yellow house". Not, if it is about Serbs she did prosecute. Selective justice?
- Would like if you clarify your stance about Carla.
- Would like if you compare the not-yet-unearthed probably-mass-grave with yellow-house-suspected-Geci.
I feel both being roughly equal.
---
i really felt a kind of change. not that it was a shock to us, since we knew and know there are others, just not the exact locations, and have been announcing it whenever allowed.
roberto frisco
(roberto, 12 May 2010 21:48)
No change, the process of unearthing civil war crimes is undergoing. For me it looks like the current Serbian government went though a monumental progress. No progress in sight on the Albanian site. But stories about missing, kidnapped Serbs in Kosovo begun in 1980-s.
----
and there have been OVER 400 mass graves so far opened in bosnia, and almost all of them are secondary and tertiary and brought to us by guess who?
roberto frisco
(roberto, 12 May 2010 21:48)
I will guess as soon as you support your numbers with links. I already provided you. You did not answer to a SINGLE QUESTION I asked. Only monologues, no dialogue.
----
personally i want to stop for about 3 seconds and say: Wait! what has gone on here!? why do we have to keep this hate-fest (that's what it becomes, let's be honest) -- why do we have to keep this hate fest going, so fast and furious
roberto frisco
(roberto, 12 May 2010 21:48)
No idea... but why on Earth we have here three Croatians, one about 50% vehemently against Serbs / 50% with them (Lenard), one about 90% against Serbs (Marko?) and one about 95% pro-Serbian (Pijetro).
At the same time we have a dark cloud of Albanian trolls with probably three people looking "normal": Village-Bey, Gustave, Louie (sorry if I forgot someone else). These three gentlemen disagree with Serbian posters MORE time than Lenard. Not a single time they were verbally assaulted or intimidated.
What other "colleagues" of yours do can be described as verbal hooliganism.
This IS the hate-feast.
Here I would use the opportunity to apologize to Joe - it strongly looks like he is NOT the "Joe Henel". My bad. At least I hope I helped him strongly re-gain the Hungarian citizenship he was craving for, that's my pay-back for wrongdoing.
---
"why do we have to keep this hate fest going, so fast and furious that a few (hundred) remains of murdered people means absolutely nothing more than yesterday's garbage... "
And your comments about "yellow house"? Was that... Geci arrested for no reason by EULEX?
---
there should be a certain amount of shame here, it would be appropriate, but instead there is the unending arrogance of the other side. arrogance of mind and arrogance of soul.
roberto frisco
(roberto, 12 May 2010 21:48)
How about looking in the mirror?
---
johny -- pls convince me that it is worth "talking" to such people right now. i just don't feel it.
roberto frisco
(roberto, 12 May 2010 21:48)
You may decide to take a break. I, too strongly feel the situation now is much worse than few weeks ago. Today I wouldn't patronize a single Albanian-owned business unlike I did a month ago.
Why? Because I am enraged about that cellular phone story. Your Albanian "colleagues" in Pristina caused huge harm by disabling the phones using violence. If any process was happening - now it suffered a huge set-back. Things will be more tough, everyone is visibly more polarized.
I have to ask - maybe precisely THAT was the goal? Because it was obvious - Serbs will restore the communication. Now why it happened.
This so-called "mass grave" is merely a claim as they haven't even started digging up the parking lot. A year or two ago there were claims of a mass grave but there was nothing there at all.
There is no actual body found yet, it is "possible" based on allegedly some anonymous witness claims.
It may yet again prove false - as well as many of those other "mass grave" claims.
Some have turned out to be Serbs in the graves but the media is silent on these or when their mass graves go bust or are much, much lower than expected.
The census and population counts do not show an overall decrease of the non-Serbs relative to the Serbs.
Serbs were ethnically cleansed and killed in greater numbers than the non-Serbs because census records show the SERB POPULATION DIMINISHED GREATLY.
The media makes false "mass grave" claims before there is even a body found.
P.S. Just read that 4 Albanian weapons smugglers were killed by the Macedonian police at the Kosovo-Macedonian border. In recent weeks HUGE weapons stashes have been found by the Macedonians. The Albanians seem to be preparing for another war in Macedonia
Also Serbia is raping international law on a daily basis by hiding and giving shelter to war criminals and helping them evade international justice institutions such as the Hague tribunal. Serbia is also raping international law on daily basis by holding elections that go against 1244. The same 1244 you hold to be the cornerstone of international law.
(johny, 12 May 2010 18:52)
you know, johny, for a brief moment this week, after the news of yet another mass grave (of albanian civilians, this time) became public, i really felt a kind of change. not that it was a shock to us, since we knew and know there are others, just not the exact locations, and have been announcing it whenever allowed.
and there have been OVER 400 mass graves so far opened in bosnia, and almost all of them are secondary and tertiary and brought to us by guess who?
despite even the public recognition of the atrocities around the WORLD (bbc, etc), THey go on like it's another carnival ride -- para-state, fake state, bla bla bla. it is enough to make yr head spin.
personally i don't wish to go right back down into that mud pile. personally i want to stop for about 3 seconds and say: Wait! what has gone on here!? why do we have to keep this hate-fest (that's what it becomes, let's be honest) -- why do we have to keep this hate fest going, so fast and furious that a few (hundred) remains of murdered people means absolutely nothing more than yesterday's garbage...
there should be a certain amount of shame here, it would be appropriate, but instead there is the unending arrogance of the other side. arrogance of mind and arrogance of soul.
johny -- pls convince me that it is worth "talking" to such people right now. i just don't feel it.
Johny, read the Helsinki Final Act, Articles III and IV. Also read UN Resolution 1244 which reaffirmed the territorial integrity of the FRY, which Serbia was recognized as the official successor state of. If you can accuse a state of violating international law because some of it's citizens protect war criminals and not the country as a whole, does that make every citizen in Kosovo guilty of corruption, drug trade and human trafficking? It's part of the ICG and Human Rights Watch reports each time, not to mention the EU reports.
So you defy international law? Well then surely you can have no complaints about the way Milosovic apparantly broke international laws?
(Vuk, 12 May 2010 15:15)
Can you point me to the exact and specific line which states Kosova cannot be independent and is not allowed to be independent. Let's be very specific here.
Also Serbia is raping international law on a daily basis by hiding and giving shelter to war criminals and helping them evade international justice institutions such as the Hague tribunal. Serbia is also raping international law on daily basis by holding elections that go against 1244. The same 1244 you hold to be the cornerstone of international law.
The EU answered Sediju's question about when they will get visa liberalization. Fuele wants all displaced residents to be allowed to return to Kosovo, reintegrate them into society and then the EU will talk about liberalization. Of course, those five foot tall kids that throw rocks will hold all of this up so maybe Sediju should ask another question, like what else can he do to since the EU's demands will never be met from an intolerant Albanian majority.
"Leave Kosovo alone on that path"? Don't worry Hyseniqi, the international community will continue holding the Albanians' hand, I'm sure. You are their newborn, and mommy (US/EU) will feed you, wipe you, and direct you.
-- The minute Pristina doesn't need to be weaned by the developed world, or expect to be weaned by the developed world, is the minute it can be treated with "equal status". So long as it remains a parastate, it must be represented as one and will be treated as one.
It's UNMIK-Kosovo or nothing. Serbia's participation is more important in the region than gang of separatists in pristina.
(PRO-SERBIA, 12 May 2010 12:58)
A: "I wonder where Kate were on Monday. No comment from her regarding the new massgrave with Albanians discovered in Serbia."
I wasn't really around on Monday, but glad to know that you missed me. And here was I thinking that you were annoyed by my responses to you on other threads.
I have always said that all human rights injustices should be answered for. I was pleased the see the Serbian government doing something about this. What similar activity has been carried out by Pristina in terms of the missing and killed Serbians and Albanians who perished at the hands of the KLA?
It is absolutely terrible that any civilian should be murdered, and awful for the bereaved left behind. I really do mean that and it doesn't matter what the ethnicity is.
But despite your protests, nothing changes the fact that Kosovo is not a country just because the UDI has been recognised by some states.
It is a UN protectorate under international law and until the status is properly resolves it remains a province of Serbia. I don't think for one minute that anyone thinks Belgrade will run Kosovo again.
I really hope that the matter is resolved satisfactorily for both sides and things can move forward for the sake of all people. But forcing things through without due process or adhering to law does not work.
Perhaps the Serbs living in Kosovo should just start showing up to these meetings representing their people in Kosovo. I'm sure they would like equal status as well.
1244 is worth nothing. Albanians have established facts on the ground and no matter what Kate says, Kosovo is independent. And that because those who live there wants independence.
(A, 12 May 2010 13:35)
So you defy international law? Well then surely you can have no complaints about the way Milosovic apparantly broke international laws?
The only reason everyone want`s k-albs there is so they can hear first hand, about cooperation to stop crimes and corruption.
So,like good boys they will hold hand of UMNIK, listen,eat lunch,and go home telling albanians how important they are becoming on balkans.
Too bad there won`t be any cameras to witness spanking.
"He said that it would be a fundamental mistake to leave Kosovo alone on that path."
Another threat from our albanian neighbours. "Give us visas to enter Europe and commit crimes or you will pay dearly". I just love the way albanians negotiate. No wonder the "steal your neighbours territory conference in Rambullie" failed. Albanians need to reqalize that negotiating a drug deal and ecoomic development are two different things.
You can deny 1244 all you want. Fact is Mr. Rugova, as well as your master Clinton both agreed to this.... Maybe you should add a copy of 1244 to the hands of their statues
I wonder where Kate were on Monday. No comment from her regarding the new massgrave with Albanians discovered in Serbia.
1244 is worth nothing. Albanians have established facts on the ground and no matter what Kate says, Kosovo is independent. And that because those who live there wants independence.
Good grief! Don't they realise that by not having labels on any countries at the conference it won't automatically make Kosovo a legally recognised country. It's just a way for everyone to sit at the table. That's good for all.
But the fact is that under international law Kosovo is not a state and remains under Resolutiomn 1244 within Serbia's sovereign boundaries. Everyone there knows that.
That is why the US (and maybe certain EU members) are so keen on trying to rewrite 1244 at the moment, because it affirms this fact.
This conference business is just a joke. It's obvious which members are countries and which are international protectorates. This is just a way to 'hide the toys away' and keep the peace for the sake of dialogue.
Good grief! Don't they realise that by not having labels on any countries at the conference it won't automatically make Kosovo a legally recognised country. It's just a way for everyone to sit at the table. That's good for all.
But the fact is that under international law Kosovo is not a state and remains under Resolutiomn 1244 within Serbia's sovereign boundaries. Everyone there knows that.
That is why the US (and maybe certain EU members) are so keen on trying to rewrite 1244 at the moment, because it affirms this fact.
This conference business is just a joke. It's obvious which members are countries and which are international protectorates. This is just a way to 'hide the toys away' and keep the peace for the sake of dialogue.
I wonder where Kate were on Monday. No comment from her regarding the new massgrave with Albanians discovered in Serbia.
1244 is worth nothing. Albanians have established facts on the ground and no matter what Kate says, Kosovo is independent. And that because those who live there wants independence.
You can deny 1244 all you want. Fact is Mr. Rugova, as well as your master Clinton both agreed to this.... Maybe you should add a copy of 1244 to the hands of their statues
"He said that it would be a fundamental mistake to leave Kosovo alone on that path."
Another threat from our albanian neighbours. "Give us visas to enter Europe and commit crimes or you will pay dearly". I just love the way albanians negotiate. No wonder the "steal your neighbours territory conference in Rambullie" failed. Albanians need to reqalize that negotiating a drug deal and ecoomic development are two different things.
1244 is worth nothing. Albanians have established facts on the ground and no matter what Kate says, Kosovo is independent. And that because those who live there wants independence.
(A, 12 May 2010 13:35)
So you defy international law? Well then surely you can have no complaints about the way Milosovic apparantly broke international laws?
Perhaps the Serbs living in Kosovo should just start showing up to these meetings representing their people in Kosovo. I'm sure they would like equal status as well.
A: "I wonder where Kate were on Monday. No comment from her regarding the new massgrave with Albanians discovered in Serbia."
I wasn't really around on Monday, but glad to know that you missed me. And here was I thinking that you were annoyed by my responses to you on other threads.
I have always said that all human rights injustices should be answered for. I was pleased the see the Serbian government doing something about this. What similar activity has been carried out by Pristina in terms of the missing and killed Serbians and Albanians who perished at the hands of the KLA?
It is absolutely terrible that any civilian should be murdered, and awful for the bereaved left behind. I really do mean that and it doesn't matter what the ethnicity is.
But despite your protests, nothing changes the fact that Kosovo is not a country just because the UDI has been recognised by some states.
It is a UN protectorate under international law and until the status is properly resolves it remains a province of Serbia. I don't think for one minute that anyone thinks Belgrade will run Kosovo again.
I really hope that the matter is resolved satisfactorily for both sides and things can move forward for the sake of all people. But forcing things through without due process or adhering to law does not work.
-- The minute Pristina doesn't need to be weaned by the developed world, or expect to be weaned by the developed world, is the minute it can be treated with "equal status". So long as it remains a parastate, it must be represented as one and will be treated as one.
It's UNMIK-Kosovo or nothing. Serbia's participation is more important in the region than gang of separatists in pristina.
(PRO-SERBIA, 12 May 2010 12:58)
The only reason everyone want`s k-albs there is so they can hear first hand, about cooperation to stop crimes and corruption.
So,like good boys they will hold hand of UMNIK, listen,eat lunch,and go home telling albanians how important they are becoming on balkans.
Too bad there won`t be any cameras to witness spanking.
"Leave Kosovo alone on that path"? Don't worry Hyseniqi, the international community will continue holding the Albanians' hand, I'm sure. You are their newborn, and mommy (US/EU) will feed you, wipe you, and direct you.
The EU answered Sediju's question about when they will get visa liberalization. Fuele wants all displaced residents to be allowed to return to Kosovo, reintegrate them into society and then the EU will talk about liberalization. Of course, those five foot tall kids that throw rocks will hold all of this up so maybe Sediju should ask another question, like what else can he do to since the EU's demands will never be met from an intolerant Albanian majority.
Johny, read the Helsinki Final Act, Articles III and IV. Also read UN Resolution 1244 which reaffirmed the territorial integrity of the FRY, which Serbia was recognized as the official successor state of. If you can accuse a state of violating international law because some of it's citizens protect war criminals and not the country as a whole, does that make every citizen in Kosovo guilty of corruption, drug trade and human trafficking? It's part of the ICG and Human Rights Watch reports each time, not to mention the EU reports.
you know, johny, for a brief moment this week, after the news of yet another mass grave (of albanian civilians, this time) became public, i really felt a kind of change. not that it was a shock to us, since we knew and know there are others, just not the exact locations, and have been announcing it whenever allowed.
roberto frisco
(roberto, 12 May 2010 21:48)
Please read the article. It's not even clear that a grave is there - but you already know, the victims were Albanian civilians. At least waiting till it is clarified and investigating by EULEX wouldn't be proper?
At the same time - every time "Yellow House" is mentioned you call is BS and insult the potential victims. How you spell "hypocrisy"? I still remember the time Carla del Ponte was the Queen of Balkans - now after she wrote what she wrote - she is now the Wicked Witch. But only if it is about "yellow house". Not, if it is about Serbs she did prosecute. Selective justice?
- Would like if you clarify your stance about Carla.
- Would like if you compare the not-yet-unearthed probably-mass-grave with yellow-house-suspected-Geci.
I feel both being roughly equal.
---
i really felt a kind of change. not that it was a shock to us, since we knew and know there are others, just not the exact locations, and have been announcing it whenever allowed.
roberto frisco
(roberto, 12 May 2010 21:48)
No change, the process of unearthing civil war crimes is undergoing. For me it looks like the current Serbian government went though a monumental progress. No progress in sight on the Albanian site. But stories about missing, kidnapped Serbs in Kosovo begun in 1980-s.
----
and there have been OVER 400 mass graves so far opened in bosnia, and almost all of them are secondary and tertiary and brought to us by guess who?
roberto frisco
(roberto, 12 May 2010 21:48)
I will guess as soon as you support your numbers with links. I already provided you. You did not answer to a SINGLE QUESTION I asked. Only monologues, no dialogue.
----
personally i want to stop for about 3 seconds and say: Wait! what has gone on here!? why do we have to keep this hate-fest (that's what it becomes, let's be honest) -- why do we have to keep this hate fest going, so fast and furious
roberto frisco
(roberto, 12 May 2010 21:48)
No idea... but why on Earth we have here three Croatians, one about 50% vehemently against Serbs / 50% with them (Lenard), one about 90% against Serbs (Marko?) and one about 95% pro-Serbian (Pijetro).
At the same time we have a dark cloud of Albanian trolls with probably three people looking "normal": Village-Bey, Gustave, Louie (sorry if I forgot someone else). These three gentlemen disagree with Serbian posters MORE time than Lenard. Not a single time they were verbally assaulted or intimidated.
What other "colleagues" of yours do can be described as verbal hooliganism.
This IS the hate-feast.
Here I would use the opportunity to apologize to Joe - it strongly looks like he is NOT the "Joe Henel". My bad. At least I hope I helped him strongly re-gain the Hungarian citizenship he was craving for, that's my pay-back for wrongdoing.
---
"why do we have to keep this hate fest going, so fast and furious that a few (hundred) remains of murdered people means absolutely nothing more than yesterday's garbage... "
And your comments about "yellow house"? Was that... Geci arrested for no reason by EULEX?
---
there should be a certain amount of shame here, it would be appropriate, but instead there is the unending arrogance of the other side. arrogance of mind and arrogance of soul.
roberto frisco
(roberto, 12 May 2010 21:48)
How about looking in the mirror?
---
johny -- pls convince me that it is worth "talking" to such people right now. i just don't feel it.
roberto frisco
(roberto, 12 May 2010 21:48)
You may decide to take a break. I, too strongly feel the situation now is much worse than few weeks ago. Today I wouldn't patronize a single Albanian-owned business unlike I did a month ago.
Why? Because I am enraged about that cellular phone story. Your Albanian "colleagues" in Pristina caused huge harm by disabling the phones using violence. If any process was happening - now it suffered a huge set-back. Things will be more tough, everyone is visibly more polarized.
I have to ask - maybe precisely THAT was the goal? Because it was obvious - Serbs will restore the communication. Now why it happened.
Also Serbia is raping international law on a daily basis by hiding and giving shelter to war criminals and helping them evade international justice institutions such as the Hague tribunal. Serbia is also raping international law on daily basis by holding elections that go against 1244. The same 1244 you hold to be the cornerstone of international law.
(johny, 12 May 2010 18:52)
you know, johny, for a brief moment this week, after the news of yet another mass grave (of albanian civilians, this time) became public, i really felt a kind of change. not that it was a shock to us, since we knew and know there are others, just not the exact locations, and have been announcing it whenever allowed.
and there have been OVER 400 mass graves so far opened in bosnia, and almost all of them are secondary and tertiary and brought to us by guess who?
despite even the public recognition of the atrocities around the WORLD (bbc, etc), THey go on like it's another carnival ride -- para-state, fake state, bla bla bla. it is enough to make yr head spin.
personally i don't wish to go right back down into that mud pile. personally i want to stop for about 3 seconds and say: Wait! what has gone on here!? why do we have to keep this hate-fest (that's what it becomes, let's be honest) -- why do we have to keep this hate fest going, so fast and furious that a few (hundred) remains of murdered people means absolutely nothing more than yesterday's garbage...
there should be a certain amount of shame here, it would be appropriate, but instead there is the unending arrogance of the other side. arrogance of mind and arrogance of soul.
johny -- pls convince me that it is worth "talking" to such people right now. i just don't feel it.
So you defy international law? Well then surely you can have no complaints about the way Milosovic apparantly broke international laws?
(Vuk, 12 May 2010 15:15)
Can you point me to the exact and specific line which states Kosova cannot be independent and is not allowed to be independent. Let's be very specific here.
Also Serbia is raping international law on a daily basis by hiding and giving shelter to war criminals and helping them evade international justice institutions such as the Hague tribunal. Serbia is also raping international law on daily basis by holding elections that go against 1244. The same 1244 you hold to be the cornerstone of international law.
This so-called "mass grave" is merely a claim as they haven't even started digging up the parking lot. A year or two ago there were claims of a mass grave but there was nothing there at all.
There is no actual body found yet, it is "possible" based on allegedly some anonymous witness claims.
It may yet again prove false - as well as many of those other "mass grave" claims.
Some have turned out to be Serbs in the graves but the media is silent on these or when their mass graves go bust or are much, much lower than expected.
The census and population counts do not show an overall decrease of the non-Serbs relative to the Serbs.
Serbs were ethnically cleansed and killed in greater numbers than the non-Serbs because census records show the SERB POPULATION DIMINISHED GREATLY.
The media makes false "mass grave" claims before there is even a body found.
P.S. Just read that 4 Albanian weapons smugglers were killed by the Macedonian police at the Kosovo-Macedonian border. In recent weeks HUGE weapons stashes have been found by the Macedonians. The Albanians seem to be preparing for another war in Macedonia
Ataman, what a superb post. I could not put it better myself.
You have exposed roberto from frisco, our self appointed 'moral guardian' as nothing more than the two faced hypocrite for what he really is.
His plattitudes and crocodile tears are one thing but his continued dismissiveness of war crimes carried out by his Albanian, Bosnian and Croatian chums is stomach churning. What do you expect from a fraud.
You have exposed roberto from frisco, our self appointed 'moral guardian' as nothing more than the two faced hypocrite for what he really is.
(Niall O'Doherty, 13 May 2010 16:47)
He is not a hypocrite. Roberto strongly believes, he is correct. I strongly believe, he is not. Do not want to play a psychoanalyst but what I can describe as a "blind hatred" has own psychologic reasons. Hopefully one day he will overcome these reasons.
In news today they are reverting to calling it a "suspected" mass grave - they haven't actually unearthed anything, meaning it was pure sensationalist propaganda.
Meanwhile there is a report of unearthing 8 bodies in Kosovo - in a village the KLA operated - yet no headlines of a mass grave and no claim as to who they were.
I wonder where Kate were on Monday. No comment from her regarding the new massgrave with Albanians discovered in Serbia.
1244 is worth nothing. Albanians have established facts on the ground and no matter what Kate says, Kosovo is independent. And that because those who live there wants independence.
Good grief! Don't they realise that by not having labels on any countries at the conference it won't automatically make Kosovo a legally recognised country. It's just a way for everyone to sit at the table. That's good for all.
But the fact is that under international law Kosovo is not a state and remains under Resolutiomn 1244 within Serbia's sovereign boundaries. Everyone there knows that.
That is why the US (and maybe certain EU members) are so keen on trying to rewrite 1244 at the moment, because it affirms this fact.
This conference business is just a joke. It's obvious which members are countries and which are international protectorates. This is just a way to 'hide the toys away' and keep the peace for the sake of dialogue.
It's UNMIK-Kosovo or nothing. Serbia's participation is more important in the region than gang of separatists in pristina.
(PRO-SERBIA, 12 May 2010 12:58)
You can deny 1244 all you want. Fact is Mr. Rugova, as well as your master Clinton both agreed to this.... Maybe you should add a copy of 1244 to the hands of their statues
A: "I wonder where Kate were on Monday. No comment from her regarding the new massgrave with Albanians discovered in Serbia."
I wasn't really around on Monday, but glad to know that you missed me. And here was I thinking that you were annoyed by my responses to you on other threads.
I have always said that all human rights injustices should be answered for. I was pleased the see the Serbian government doing something about this. What similar activity has been carried out by Pristina in terms of the missing and killed Serbians and Albanians who perished at the hands of the KLA?
It is absolutely terrible that any civilian should be murdered, and awful for the bereaved left behind. I really do mean that and it doesn't matter what the ethnicity is.
But despite your protests, nothing changes the fact that Kosovo is not a country just because the UDI has been recognised by some states.
It is a UN protectorate under international law and until the status is properly resolves it remains a province of Serbia. I don't think for one minute that anyone thinks Belgrade will run Kosovo again.
I really hope that the matter is resolved satisfactorily for both sides and things can move forward for the sake of all people. But forcing things through without due process or adhering to law does not work.
"He said that it would be a fundamental mistake to leave Kosovo alone on that path."
Another threat from our albanian neighbours. "Give us visas to enter Europe and commit crimes or you will pay dearly". I just love the way albanians negotiate. No wonder the "steal your neighbours territory conference in Rambullie" failed. Albanians need to reqalize that negotiating a drug deal and ecoomic development are two different things.
1244 is worth nothing. Albanians have established facts on the ground and no matter what Kate says, Kosovo is independent. And that because those who live there wants independence.
(A, 12 May 2010 13:35)
So you defy international law? Well then surely you can have no complaints about the way Milosovic apparantly broke international laws?
The only reason everyone want`s k-albs there is so they can hear first hand, about cooperation to stop crimes and corruption.
So,like good boys they will hold hand of UMNIK, listen,eat lunch,and go home telling albanians how important they are becoming on balkans.
Too bad there won`t be any cameras to witness spanking.
Perhaps the Serbs living in Kosovo should just start showing up to these meetings representing their people in Kosovo. I'm sure they would like equal status as well.
So you defy international law? Well then surely you can have no complaints about the way Milosovic apparantly broke international laws?
(Vuk, 12 May 2010 15:15)
Can you point me to the exact and specific line which states Kosova cannot be independent and is not allowed to be independent. Let's be very specific here.
Also Serbia is raping international law on a daily basis by hiding and giving shelter to war criminals and helping them evade international justice institutions such as the Hague tribunal. Serbia is also raping international law on daily basis by holding elections that go against 1244. The same 1244 you hold to be the cornerstone of international law.
The EU answered Sediju's question about when they will get visa liberalization. Fuele wants all displaced residents to be allowed to return to Kosovo, reintegrate them into society and then the EU will talk about liberalization. Of course, those five foot tall kids that throw rocks will hold all of this up so maybe Sediju should ask another question, like what else can he do to since the EU's demands will never be met from an intolerant Albanian majority.
Also Serbia is raping international law on a daily basis by hiding and giving shelter to war criminals and helping them evade international justice institutions such as the Hague tribunal. Serbia is also raping international law on daily basis by holding elections that go against 1244. The same 1244 you hold to be the cornerstone of international law.
(johny, 12 May 2010 18:52)
you know, johny, for a brief moment this week, after the news of yet another mass grave (of albanian civilians, this time) became public, i really felt a kind of change. not that it was a shock to us, since we knew and know there are others, just not the exact locations, and have been announcing it whenever allowed.
and there have been OVER 400 mass graves so far opened in bosnia, and almost all of them are secondary and tertiary and brought to us by guess who?
despite even the public recognition of the atrocities around the WORLD (bbc, etc), THey go on like it's another carnival ride -- para-state, fake state, bla bla bla. it is enough to make yr head spin.
personally i don't wish to go right back down into that mud pile. personally i want to stop for about 3 seconds and say: Wait! what has gone on here!? why do we have to keep this hate-fest (that's what it becomes, let's be honest) -- why do we have to keep this hate fest going, so fast and furious that a few (hundred) remains of murdered people means absolutely nothing more than yesterday's garbage...
there should be a certain amount of shame here, it would be appropriate, but instead there is the unending arrogance of the other side. arrogance of mind and arrogance of soul.
johny -- pls convince me that it is worth "talking" to such people right now. i just don't feel it.
-- The minute Pristina doesn't need to be weaned by the developed world, or expect to be weaned by the developed world, is the minute it can be treated with "equal status". So long as it remains a parastate, it must be represented as one and will be treated as one.
"Leave Kosovo alone on that path"? Don't worry Hyseniqi, the international community will continue holding the Albanians' hand, I'm sure. You are their newborn, and mommy (US/EU) will feed you, wipe you, and direct you.
This so-called "mass grave" is merely a claim as they haven't even started digging up the parking lot. A year or two ago there were claims of a mass grave but there was nothing there at all.
There is no actual body found yet, it is "possible" based on allegedly some anonymous witness claims.
It may yet again prove false - as well as many of those other "mass grave" claims.
Some have turned out to be Serbs in the graves but the media is silent on these or when their mass graves go bust or are much, much lower than expected.
The census and population counts do not show an overall decrease of the non-Serbs relative to the Serbs.
Serbs were ethnically cleansed and killed in greater numbers than the non-Serbs because census records show the SERB POPULATION DIMINISHED GREATLY.
The media makes false "mass grave" claims before there is even a body found.
P.S. Just read that 4 Albanian weapons smugglers were killed by the Macedonian police at the Kosovo-Macedonian border. In recent weeks HUGE weapons stashes have been found by the Macedonians. The Albanians seem to be preparing for another war in Macedonia
Ataman, what a superb post. I could not put it better myself.
You have exposed roberto from frisco, our self appointed 'moral guardian' as nothing more than the two faced hypocrite for what he really is.
His plattitudes and crocodile tears are one thing but his continued dismissiveness of war crimes carried out by his Albanian, Bosnian and Croatian chums is stomach churning. What do you expect from a fraud.
Johny, read the Helsinki Final Act, Articles III and IV. Also read UN Resolution 1244 which reaffirmed the territorial integrity of the FRY, which Serbia was recognized as the official successor state of. If you can accuse a state of violating international law because some of it's citizens protect war criminals and not the country as a whole, does that make every citizen in Kosovo guilty of corruption, drug trade and human trafficking? It's part of the ICG and Human Rights Watch reports each time, not to mention the EU reports.
you know, johny, for a brief moment this week, after the news of yet another mass grave (of albanian civilians, this time) became public, i really felt a kind of change. not that it was a shock to us, since we knew and know there are others, just not the exact locations, and have been announcing it whenever allowed.
roberto frisco
(roberto, 12 May 2010 21:48)
Please read the article. It's not even clear that a grave is there - but you already know, the victims were Albanian civilians. At least waiting till it is clarified and investigating by EULEX wouldn't be proper?
At the same time - every time "Yellow House" is mentioned you call is BS and insult the potential victims. How you spell "hypocrisy"? I still remember the time Carla del Ponte was the Queen of Balkans - now after she wrote what she wrote - she is now the Wicked Witch. But only if it is about "yellow house". Not, if it is about Serbs she did prosecute. Selective justice?
- Would like if you clarify your stance about Carla.
- Would like if you compare the not-yet-unearthed probably-mass-grave with yellow-house-suspected-Geci.
I feel both being roughly equal.
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i really felt a kind of change. not that it was a shock to us, since we knew and know there are others, just not the exact locations, and have been announcing it whenever allowed.
roberto frisco
(roberto, 12 May 2010 21:48)
No change, the process of unearthing civil war crimes is undergoing. For me it looks like the current Serbian government went though a monumental progress. No progress in sight on the Albanian site. But stories about missing, kidnapped Serbs in Kosovo begun in 1980-s.
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and there have been OVER 400 mass graves so far opened in bosnia, and almost all of them are secondary and tertiary and brought to us by guess who?
roberto frisco
(roberto, 12 May 2010 21:48)
I will guess as soon as you support your numbers with links. I already provided you. You did not answer to a SINGLE QUESTION I asked. Only monologues, no dialogue.
----
personally i want to stop for about 3 seconds and say: Wait! what has gone on here!? why do we have to keep this hate-fest (that's what it becomes, let's be honest) -- why do we have to keep this hate fest going, so fast and furious
roberto frisco
(roberto, 12 May 2010 21:48)
No idea... but why on Earth we have here three Croatians, one about 50% vehemently against Serbs / 50% with them (Lenard), one about 90% against Serbs (Marko?) and one about 95% pro-Serbian (Pijetro).
At the same time we have a dark cloud of Albanian trolls with probably three people looking "normal": Village-Bey, Gustave, Louie (sorry if I forgot someone else). These three gentlemen disagree with Serbian posters MORE time than Lenard. Not a single time they were verbally assaulted or intimidated.
What other "colleagues" of yours do can be described as verbal hooliganism.
This IS the hate-feast.
Here I would use the opportunity to apologize to Joe - it strongly looks like he is NOT the "Joe Henel". My bad. At least I hope I helped him strongly re-gain the Hungarian citizenship he was craving for, that's my pay-back for wrongdoing.
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"why do we have to keep this hate fest going, so fast and furious that a few (hundred) remains of murdered people means absolutely nothing more than yesterday's garbage... "
And your comments about "yellow house"? Was that... Geci arrested for no reason by EULEX?
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there should be a certain amount of shame here, it would be appropriate, but instead there is the unending arrogance of the other side. arrogance of mind and arrogance of soul.
roberto frisco
(roberto, 12 May 2010 21:48)
How about looking in the mirror?
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johny -- pls convince me that it is worth "talking" to such people right now. i just don't feel it.
roberto frisco
(roberto, 12 May 2010 21:48)
You may decide to take a break. I, too strongly feel the situation now is much worse than few weeks ago. Today I wouldn't patronize a single Albanian-owned business unlike I did a month ago.
Why? Because I am enraged about that cellular phone story. Your Albanian "colleagues" in Pristina caused huge harm by disabling the phones using violence. If any process was happening - now it suffered a huge set-back. Things will be more tough, everyone is visibly more polarized.
I have to ask - maybe precisely THAT was the goal? Because it was obvious - Serbs will restore the communication. Now why it happened.
You have exposed roberto from frisco, our self appointed 'moral guardian' as nothing more than the two faced hypocrite for what he really is.
(Niall O'Doherty, 13 May 2010 16:47)
He is not a hypocrite. Roberto strongly believes, he is correct. I strongly believe, he is not. Do not want to play a psychoanalyst but what I can describe as a "blind hatred" has own psychologic reasons. Hopefully one day he will overcome these reasons.
In news today they are reverting to calling it a "suspected" mass grave - they haven't actually unearthed anything, meaning it was pure sensationalist propaganda.
Meanwhile there is a report of unearthing 8 bodies in Kosovo - in a village the KLA operated - yet no headlines of a mass grave and no claim as to who they were.
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