26

Tuesday, 11.05.2010.

09:44

Suspected mass grave to be excavated

Excavation will soon begin near the town of Raška, where a suspected mass grave is located, says War Crimes Prosecutor Vladimir Vukčević.

Izvor: B92

Suspected mass grave to be excavated IMAGE SOURCE
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26 Komentari

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tesla

pre 14 godina

Perhaps former press secretary James Reuben can help with the excavation, along with his wife Christianne Amanpour. I still have the VHS CNN tape where he described how military intervention was necessary because soccer fields in Pristina were being converted into mass graves by the dreaded MUP. No apologies from him since, nor any word from the "journalist" Amanpour. Truth is the first casualty of war. As far as Serbs are concerned, we have suffered the most in Kosovo, where our people have been harassed, beaten, cleansed and murdered for the last century - a genocide which dwarfs the collateral damage (albanian deaths -mostly KLA) during the late 90's. No use trying to make Serbs feel guilty about anything.

tesla

pre 14 godina

"The only evidence that is loughted at comes from Serbia, remember that the UN told its member states to void Serb warants. Just remember that it is precisely the rediculous statments from Serbs that made themself discredited from any responcibility.
(iFred, 11 May 2010 13:35)

iFred, what does "loughted" mean? i have no idea what your post said.--also, spellcheck is your friend.

Peggy

pre 14 godina

Vukčević told B92 TV on Monday that it is not known who killed the victims, while witnesses said that the site might contain the bodies of 250 Kosovo Albanians.



I can't beleive what I am reading above!

ej, maybe they decided to
walk or drive over 100 km , and when they reached Raska , they decided to commit suicide.
(Kosova-USA, 11 May 2010 10:55)
=====================
How is saying that it is not known who killed these people implying that they might've killed themselves?
Go on, tell us, how?
All they are saying is that nothing is known yet but they will investigate. Why is this so hard for you to accept?
They haven't even dug up anything yet and are prepared to entertain the idea that there are bodies there and this is not good enough for you.
What do you want them to say?
Do you want them to give us the number of people burried there, who they are and who killed them BEFORE they even dig?

Ataman

pre 14 godina

This is from one of the experts on mass graves, amor masovic, on the srebrenica genocide site. it is fairly recent, and describes the eclectic nature of the many different mass graves. do not keep denying them.
(roberto, 11 May 2010 23:36)

1) The link of Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, Zürich I did mention keeps denying your numbers. The article is written by Anes Alić from Sarajevo - hardly a Milošević agent because "Alić" means "son/daughter of Ali".

Her article talks about 13000 missing people. Where are your links?

Do not get me wrong. For me, Bosnians are not any "worse" or "further" from us than Serbs or Croats just because of "religion". I am fully aware, they (Bosnians) en large were among the biggest supporters of YU being kept in one piece. Despite the disaster what Izetbegovic did mean for the country.

The 13000 - if it is true - is an awfully big number. No need to inflate it to make a political point. And going on the anti-Russian crusade is indirect way insulting not just Serbs but precisely Bosnians and Croats, too. Think why I am saying it.

2) I can tell you PRECISELY where was the point where I did turn around. We lived in Germany during the first phase of the civil war in YU and I believed everything mass media did say, absolutely. All we did was just to shake our heads: "what did hit these people? Rape camps, mass graves, etc. etc.". Some stories were unbelievable - but we did bravely believed.

Later I got H1B visa to work and live in America and we settled on the East Coast first. I was on my way south from a conference in Boston, by train. I had to change trains in Providence, RI. I had an hour or two at the station and went to a book store to browse the books and newspapers. There I noticed some neo-liberal-whatever-greeen-peace-what-not journal which looked pretty sympathetic for me. I took in my hand and it was a detailed description there how Serbs in Belgrade watch on prime time TV news live rape of Bosnian women, all details included(!!!)

Since I knew very well the socialist broadcasting rules (what level of nudity could be shown, when and how and what details) it was obvious for me that it's an ugly, nasty lie, one of the most dirty piece of propaganda I ever seen.

We are very sensitive to this kind of stuff - that moment the entire nice anti-Serb building did collapse.

Now think twice.... Who and why put this kind of "masterpiece" in a basically good-willing journal. And was that journal good-willing after all?

Than of course we learned one or an other thing... and more and more did it look, the entire propaganda machine works against than-Yugo (not merely against Milošević!) 7/24.

BTW: that Milošević was your "colleague". His hatred of anything Russian was not just legendary - it was close to paranoia. And wasn't he the head of Beobanka at one point, a Wall Street insider? ;-)

What is interesting: among defenders of Milošević are such Russian dissidents as Aleksandr Zinovyev who wrote "Зияющие Высоты" (Yawning Heights) I was lucky to read as it was Samizdat and we smuggled it in beyond Iron Curtain.

Regardless, he (Milošević) ordered his best man (Stambolić) being killed and it is a good sign, it was quite a bit unkosher around him. We strongly believe, he was a criminal-turned communist apparatchik.

care

pre 14 godina

Saw in the news this morning, the deaths were suspected to be the result of the Serbian paramilitary but as it turns out, it appears they were victims of a NATO 'mistake'.

trudsaam

pre 14 godina

a further reason why Kosovo had deserved the independence !!!!
(Luis)
-
Not a good at all. Serbs were being slaughtered in the Nuremburg concentration camp, you mean to say (according to your logic of course), that this land belongs to Serbia?.... Looks like your view of "Veliki Srbija" only exists in the minds of the Albanos afterall....

Denis

pre 14 godina

Excavation will soon begin near the town of Raška, where a suspected mass grave is located
--
"suspected mass grave" - now that's better. Lets get the facts and take appropriate action without the unnecessary eye poking. It's a good thing Serbia is dealing with its past and in that respect is the regional leader while other ethnicities, NATO, etc... are still keeping their closets closed.
(Zoran, 11 May 2010 11:17)

Well yeah, it's the 21 century and the name of your beloved Serbia many times is in the same sentence with words "mass grave".

Of course Serbia is a leader in facing its past, just like it was a leader in digging these mass graves and filling them up with dead bodies at the first place.

Not sure which part makes you proud, but please don't act supprised, like this is something unheard of for Serbia & the Serbs. We all know what you were capable of.

roberto

pre 14 godina

This is from one of the experts on mass graves, amor masovic, on the srebrenica genocide site. it is fairly recent, and describes the eclectic nature of the many different mass graves. do not keep denying them. i will furnish the best # i can when i hear from dr. eva. she should know since she's been in most of them, and isn't just speculating. but i trust him and he says OVER 400. Thank you for keeping me on my toes!:

"During the aggression against the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina which lasted from early 1992 to the end of 1995, 27,734 people were listed as missing, most of them victims of genocide and other crimes against humanity and violations of international humanitarian law. More than 85% of these missing persons were Bosniaks.

Thirteen years after the end of the war, the mortal remains of about 20,000 missing persons who were citizens of Bosnia and Herzegovina have been found.

The victims have been exhumed from primary and secondary mass graves, natural pits as much as 80 metres deep, mines, and multiple, single and other graves in Bosnia and Herzegovina, the Republic of Croatia, and the Republic of Serbia.

A great majority of the victims have been exhumed from more than 400 mass graves, in which the mortal remains of between 5 and 1,153 people were found.

Of the 8,372 persons missing during the occupation of Srebrenica as a UN safe area in July 1995, the mortal remains of about 6,000 victims of genocide have been found, in most cases incomplete.

The quest for the missing, truth, justice and closure for the souls of the deceased and the survivors continues."

trudsaam

pre 14 godina

I can't beleive what I am reading above!

ej, maybe they decided to
walk or drive over 100 km , and when they reached Raska , they decided to commit suicide.
(Kosova-USA)
-
Anything is possible I guess.

And in regards to this "S" character you are referring to. Time to wake up frm your deep sleep 20years ago friend... S no longer roams the streets, S no longer leads, S is dead in case you didnt know... so try to come up with something more relevent to read on this site, your blabber is tiresome. Good day

Ataman

pre 14 godina

can you imagine: of all the mass graves so far uncovered in bosnia, and there are at least hundreds of them

roberto
frisco
(roberto, 11 May 2010 18:33)

No, I CAN NOT. Again: I CAN NOT. Why? Mathematics. Please do your math first.

"hundreds" of mass graves = at least 200 mass graves. "mass gave" = how many dead?
How many missing in Bosnia?

According Bosnian muslims 13000, that is including probably 5000 not-yet-identified remains.
Hardly a Serbian propaganda: http://tinyurl.com/35k6ua6

The number is awful lot - and even more tragic is, the Bosnians, Serbs, Croatians represent the same ethnic element - if that is important.

Where I am upset: I see no plan. What I see is that you keep pouring more and more fuel into fire and if there is a positive development - like this one - than even more fuel is being poured.

At the same time you could not answer a single "challenge question" I asked you. There is no dialogue. You produce only monologues and with these monologues you alienate as many people as possible. Ever, a single time - did you admit a mistake?

Otherwise I am not very happy you did chose precisely Bekim (a known ultra-nationalist) to support either - why not Louie, Gustave, Village-Bey?

------

Back to the topic - I would not comment on it yet. I feel that not less, than death penalty is justified in the Bytyqi case. But this case is not even begun yet.

Kudos to Serbian government that they are very pro-active. My hope is that who ever did such crimes will pay for it.

To (somewhat) lessen the damage you make on Jews - here are some writings of Julia Gorin and Israel Shamir. There are probably no two more diverse persons than Julia and Israel - but (not-so-surprisingly) their views about Serbia are nearly identical. Probably because somewhere inside they are still Russians and not brainwashed:

http://www.juliagorin.com
http://www.israelshamir.net

curiosity

pre 14 godina

(Michael Thomas, 11 May 2010 15:45)
Question for you would be why would those bodies be dug up and moved to Serbia and buried in a mass grave if not to hide something?

roberto

pre 14 godina

>>Why the surprise we are dealing with serbs here.
(Bekim, 11 May 2010 15:26)

Bekim -- If you read me at all, you know i'm not in this for a popularity contest. i write what i know, what i have experienced, how i analyze it all. people can feel free to agree or disagree.

this situation with the latest mass grave -- it is exactly what we have been saying (except for location) -- it is horrible, there's no way to minimize it. it is incredibly angering, knowing that they have waited until they were forced (in essence) to move. and then they try to take credit for "cooperation." it is too much, sometimes.

and the denial, the spread of suspicion... exactly as we see here today, again and again. that is disgusting, but very old hat. can you imagine: of all the mass graves so far uncovered in bosnia, and there are at least hundreds of them -- each time it is opened and the grueling work of the digging, then the id'ing... each time, we are assaulted w/ a slew of misrepresentations, suspicions, and down-right lies. "it's mujehadeen, its green berets, its muslim fundamentalists..." i've spoken often to dr. eva (the forensic anthropologist who has done most of the actual work) and she just says: ignore them and their lies. which is what we have to learn to do.

BUT, i will repeat it a thousand times -- it is NOT all serbs. many, yes. way too many. and many of their allies (so-called) around the world. but not ALL. i have many serb frnds and acquaintances, who are absolutely outspoken about their opposition to what milosevic and his evil legacy -- they spend much of their lives fighting against it, fighting to spread the truth.

of course they are in the minority, of course you rarely read them here, of course they are so often the objects of scorn and wrath by other serbs. but they persevere, and i admire them tremendously. that is why i can never generalize about "the serbs."

anyway, all of these ethnic generalizations start as stereotypes and end up feeding racist hate. they are counter-productive to our future and that of our children.

excuse me for "preaching" but i have to call it as i see it. pls keep posting but also pls w an open mind... thanks.

roberto
frisco

milan

pre 14 godina

Since everybody is a ghoul and people love to dig up mass graves-why not go and dig up the worlds largest and biggest mass graves.

Those MASS GRAVES are in southern Iraq-over 100,000 Iraqi's were buried there in the early 90's by american bulldozers.

Of course nobody will ever do that-in the corrupt reality of western europe and america it has never been about the actuall crime-its about who commited the crime and what ends will it serve to expand and strengthen the empire through propaganda.

svojgazda

pre 14 godina

Slow down Kosova, let the authorities do their work before you do the judging and executing. It's a bit early to rush to judgement. There were a lot of players involved in the Serbian/Albanian conflict. Maybe the prosecutor is saying that the perpetrators may have been regular army, or paramilitary. No one is sure of the exact identities of the victims, or the number. I understand that you can hardly wait to point your finger at anything bad about Serbia, too bad you, and other albanians here, don't have the same enthusiasm about the missing and dead of other ethnicities, killed by the Albanian KLA.

Bekim

pre 14 godina

Vukčević told B92 TV on Monday that it is not known who killed the victims, while witnesses said that the site might contain the bodies of 250 Kosovo Albanians.



I can't beleive what I am reading above!

ej, maybe they decided to
walk or drive over 100 km , and when they reached Raska , they decided to commit suicide.
(Kosova-USA, 11 May 2010 10:55)

Why the surprise we are dealing with serbs here.

Michael Thomas

pre 14 godina

iFred

Mass graves are “found” or “invented” by the Americans whenever it suits their wider geopolitical agenda.

You can’t accuse me of insensitivity towards “the victims” because we have no evidence that there are any victims. This could be one of the “invented” mass graves.

While you are correct that some real mass graves have been “found” you are wrong to immediately believe the BBC/CNN story that follows these “discoveries.”

Among the corpses uncovered in Petrovo Selo (central Serbia) were Albanians previously buried in Izbica in Kosovo. The American occupiers claimed that Serbs had reburied these Albanians in order to hide their warcrimes. But there was a problem; several of these Albanians had had autopsies and had been given death certificates by the Serbian authorities in Kosovo. The Serbs were clearly not “hiding” these deaths, they investigated and reported them and then buried them. Why would Serbs go to the effort to move these bodies from Izbica to Petrovo Selo when they clearly believed that they had nothing to hide? The Americans, who occupy Kosovo and control Belgrade, have every reason to “invent” mass graves to justify their aggression against Yugoslavia and their continued occupation of Kosovo.

Dragan

pre 14 godina

@Michael Thomas

Exactly! I remember these very same people telling us that Serbs were throwing dead albanians down the Trepca mine shaft, and that there were '100,000 dead albanians'....which all turned out to be dispicable lies and propoganda. And now I'm supposed to believe Eulex (who are basicaly the same bunch) based on zero evidence?? Yeah, I wasn't born yesterday like many on here.
This should not even be news, but BBC and other sites were already blackening Serbia's name yesterday with this garbage. Typical.

iFred

pre 14 godina

Michael Thomas, please do not be a loughing stock in here, if not for your inteligence on the topic, it is for the respect of the victims.

This mass grave will be the second biggest after the one near Belgrade that contained 600+ people.
Here it is: It is not the first time mass graves from the conflict have been found in Serbia. The bodies of more than 800 Kosovo Albanians were found in several locations in Serbia in 2001, including police compounds.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8671783.stm

Mass grave after mass grave, the Serb contience seams to be a cold rock of denial.

The only evidence that is loughted at comes from Serbia, remember that the UN told its member states to void Serb warants. Just remember that it is precisely the rediculous statments from Serbs that made themself discredited from any responcibility.

Michael Thomas

pre 14 godina

How is this news? No land has been excavated and no bodies found. And yet we are told by you in the “free press” that there are 250 Albanians buried there. We have heard this type of “story” many times before. Mass graves containing “hundreds, possibly thousands of people murdered by Serbs” have been found only in the lurid imaginations of Serbia’s American masters.

Zoran

pre 14 godina

Excavation will soon begin near the town of Raška, where a suspected mass grave is located
--
"suspected mass grave" - now that's better. Lets get the facts and take appropriate action without the unnecessary eye poking. It's a good thing Serbia is dealing with its past and in that respect is the regional leader while other ethnicities, NATO, etc... are still keeping their closets closed.

Kosova-USA

pre 14 godina

Vukčević told B92 TV on Monday that it is not known who killed the victims, while witnesses said that the site might contain the bodies of 250 Kosovo Albanians.


Mr. Prosecutor , can I give you a clue who killed them, it starts with S. Maybe is easy for you now to track down the killers.

Kosova-USA

pre 14 godina

Vukčević told B92 TV on Monday that it is not known who killed the victims, while witnesses said that the site might contain the bodies of 250 Kosovo Albanians.



I can't beleive what I am reading above!

ej, maybe they decided to
walk or drive over 100 km , and when they reached Raska , they decided to commit suicide.

Kosova-USA

pre 14 godina

Vukčević told B92 TV on Monday that it is not known who killed the victims, while witnesses said that the site might contain the bodies of 250 Kosovo Albanians.



I can't beleive what I am reading above!

ej, maybe they decided to
walk or drive over 100 km , and when they reached Raska , they decided to commit suicide.

Kosova-USA

pre 14 godina

Vukčević told B92 TV on Monday that it is not known who killed the victims, while witnesses said that the site might contain the bodies of 250 Kosovo Albanians.


Mr. Prosecutor , can I give you a clue who killed them, it starts with S. Maybe is easy for you now to track down the killers.

Bekim

pre 14 godina

Vukčević told B92 TV on Monday that it is not known who killed the victims, while witnesses said that the site might contain the bodies of 250 Kosovo Albanians.



I can't beleive what I am reading above!

ej, maybe they decided to
walk or drive over 100 km , and when they reached Raska , they decided to commit suicide.
(Kosova-USA, 11 May 2010 10:55)

Why the surprise we are dealing with serbs here.

iFred

pre 14 godina

Michael Thomas, please do not be a loughing stock in here, if not for your inteligence on the topic, it is for the respect of the victims.

This mass grave will be the second biggest after the one near Belgrade that contained 600+ people.
Here it is: It is not the first time mass graves from the conflict have been found in Serbia. The bodies of more than 800 Kosovo Albanians were found in several locations in Serbia in 2001, including police compounds.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8671783.stm

Mass grave after mass grave, the Serb contience seams to be a cold rock of denial.

The only evidence that is loughted at comes from Serbia, remember that the UN told its member states to void Serb warants. Just remember that it is precisely the rediculous statments from Serbs that made themself discredited from any responcibility.

Michael Thomas

pre 14 godina

How is this news? No land has been excavated and no bodies found. And yet we are told by you in the “free press” that there are 250 Albanians buried there. We have heard this type of “story” many times before. Mass graves containing “hundreds, possibly thousands of people murdered by Serbs” have been found only in the lurid imaginations of Serbia’s American masters.

Michael Thomas

pre 14 godina

iFred

Mass graves are “found” or “invented” by the Americans whenever it suits their wider geopolitical agenda.

You can’t accuse me of insensitivity towards “the victims” because we have no evidence that there are any victims. This could be one of the “invented” mass graves.

While you are correct that some real mass graves have been “found” you are wrong to immediately believe the BBC/CNN story that follows these “discoveries.”

Among the corpses uncovered in Petrovo Selo (central Serbia) were Albanians previously buried in Izbica in Kosovo. The American occupiers claimed that Serbs had reburied these Albanians in order to hide their warcrimes. But there was a problem; several of these Albanians had had autopsies and had been given death certificates by the Serbian authorities in Kosovo. The Serbs were clearly not “hiding” these deaths, they investigated and reported them and then buried them. Why would Serbs go to the effort to move these bodies from Izbica to Petrovo Selo when they clearly believed that they had nothing to hide? The Americans, who occupy Kosovo and control Belgrade, have every reason to “invent” mass graves to justify their aggression against Yugoslavia and their continued occupation of Kosovo.

Zoran

pre 14 godina

Excavation will soon begin near the town of Raška, where a suspected mass grave is located
--
"suspected mass grave" - now that's better. Lets get the facts and take appropriate action without the unnecessary eye poking. It's a good thing Serbia is dealing with its past and in that respect is the regional leader while other ethnicities, NATO, etc... are still keeping their closets closed.

Dragan

pre 14 godina

@Michael Thomas

Exactly! I remember these very same people telling us that Serbs were throwing dead albanians down the Trepca mine shaft, and that there were '100,000 dead albanians'....which all turned out to be dispicable lies and propoganda. And now I'm supposed to believe Eulex (who are basicaly the same bunch) based on zero evidence?? Yeah, I wasn't born yesterday like many on here.
This should not even be news, but BBC and other sites were already blackening Serbia's name yesterday with this garbage. Typical.

roberto

pre 14 godina

>>Why the surprise we are dealing with serbs here.
(Bekim, 11 May 2010 15:26)

Bekim -- If you read me at all, you know i'm not in this for a popularity contest. i write what i know, what i have experienced, how i analyze it all. people can feel free to agree or disagree.

this situation with the latest mass grave -- it is exactly what we have been saying (except for location) -- it is horrible, there's no way to minimize it. it is incredibly angering, knowing that they have waited until they were forced (in essence) to move. and then they try to take credit for "cooperation." it is too much, sometimes.

and the denial, the spread of suspicion... exactly as we see here today, again and again. that is disgusting, but very old hat. can you imagine: of all the mass graves so far uncovered in bosnia, and there are at least hundreds of them -- each time it is opened and the grueling work of the digging, then the id'ing... each time, we are assaulted w/ a slew of misrepresentations, suspicions, and down-right lies. "it's mujehadeen, its green berets, its muslim fundamentalists..." i've spoken often to dr. eva (the forensic anthropologist who has done most of the actual work) and she just says: ignore them and their lies. which is what we have to learn to do.

BUT, i will repeat it a thousand times -- it is NOT all serbs. many, yes. way too many. and many of their allies (so-called) around the world. but not ALL. i have many serb frnds and acquaintances, who are absolutely outspoken about their opposition to what milosevic and his evil legacy -- they spend much of their lives fighting against it, fighting to spread the truth.

of course they are in the minority, of course you rarely read them here, of course they are so often the objects of scorn and wrath by other serbs. but they persevere, and i admire them tremendously. that is why i can never generalize about "the serbs."

anyway, all of these ethnic generalizations start as stereotypes and end up feeding racist hate. they are counter-productive to our future and that of our children.

excuse me for "preaching" but i have to call it as i see it. pls keep posting but also pls w an open mind... thanks.

roberto
frisco

milan

pre 14 godina

Since everybody is a ghoul and people love to dig up mass graves-why not go and dig up the worlds largest and biggest mass graves.

Those MASS GRAVES are in southern Iraq-over 100,000 Iraqi's were buried there in the early 90's by american bulldozers.

Of course nobody will ever do that-in the corrupt reality of western europe and america it has never been about the actuall crime-its about who commited the crime and what ends will it serve to expand and strengthen the empire through propaganda.

svojgazda

pre 14 godina

Slow down Kosova, let the authorities do their work before you do the judging and executing. It's a bit early to rush to judgement. There were a lot of players involved in the Serbian/Albanian conflict. Maybe the prosecutor is saying that the perpetrators may have been regular army, or paramilitary. No one is sure of the exact identities of the victims, or the number. I understand that you can hardly wait to point your finger at anything bad about Serbia, too bad you, and other albanians here, don't have the same enthusiasm about the missing and dead of other ethnicities, killed by the Albanian KLA.

Ataman

pre 14 godina

can you imagine: of all the mass graves so far uncovered in bosnia, and there are at least hundreds of them

roberto
frisco
(roberto, 11 May 2010 18:33)

No, I CAN NOT. Again: I CAN NOT. Why? Mathematics. Please do your math first.

"hundreds" of mass graves = at least 200 mass graves. "mass gave" = how many dead?
How many missing in Bosnia?

According Bosnian muslims 13000, that is including probably 5000 not-yet-identified remains.
Hardly a Serbian propaganda: http://tinyurl.com/35k6ua6

The number is awful lot - and even more tragic is, the Bosnians, Serbs, Croatians represent the same ethnic element - if that is important.

Where I am upset: I see no plan. What I see is that you keep pouring more and more fuel into fire and if there is a positive development - like this one - than even more fuel is being poured.

At the same time you could not answer a single "challenge question" I asked you. There is no dialogue. You produce only monologues and with these monologues you alienate as many people as possible. Ever, a single time - did you admit a mistake?

Otherwise I am not very happy you did chose precisely Bekim (a known ultra-nationalist) to support either - why not Louie, Gustave, Village-Bey?

------

Back to the topic - I would not comment on it yet. I feel that not less, than death penalty is justified in the Bytyqi case. But this case is not even begun yet.

Kudos to Serbian government that they are very pro-active. My hope is that who ever did such crimes will pay for it.

To (somewhat) lessen the damage you make on Jews - here are some writings of Julia Gorin and Israel Shamir. There are probably no two more diverse persons than Julia and Israel - but (not-so-surprisingly) their views about Serbia are nearly identical. Probably because somewhere inside they are still Russians and not brainwashed:

http://www.juliagorin.com
http://www.israelshamir.net

Denis

pre 14 godina

Excavation will soon begin near the town of Raška, where a suspected mass grave is located
--
"suspected mass grave" - now that's better. Lets get the facts and take appropriate action without the unnecessary eye poking. It's a good thing Serbia is dealing with its past and in that respect is the regional leader while other ethnicities, NATO, etc... are still keeping their closets closed.
(Zoran, 11 May 2010 11:17)

Well yeah, it's the 21 century and the name of your beloved Serbia many times is in the same sentence with words "mass grave".

Of course Serbia is a leader in facing its past, just like it was a leader in digging these mass graves and filling them up with dead bodies at the first place.

Not sure which part makes you proud, but please don't act supprised, like this is something unheard of for Serbia & the Serbs. We all know what you were capable of.

roberto

pre 14 godina

This is from one of the experts on mass graves, amor masovic, on the srebrenica genocide site. it is fairly recent, and describes the eclectic nature of the many different mass graves. do not keep denying them. i will furnish the best # i can when i hear from dr. eva. she should know since she's been in most of them, and isn't just speculating. but i trust him and he says OVER 400. Thank you for keeping me on my toes!:

"During the aggression against the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina which lasted from early 1992 to the end of 1995, 27,734 people were listed as missing, most of them victims of genocide and other crimes against humanity and violations of international humanitarian law. More than 85% of these missing persons were Bosniaks.

Thirteen years after the end of the war, the mortal remains of about 20,000 missing persons who were citizens of Bosnia and Herzegovina have been found.

The victims have been exhumed from primary and secondary mass graves, natural pits as much as 80 metres deep, mines, and multiple, single and other graves in Bosnia and Herzegovina, the Republic of Croatia, and the Republic of Serbia.

A great majority of the victims have been exhumed from more than 400 mass graves, in which the mortal remains of between 5 and 1,153 people were found.

Of the 8,372 persons missing during the occupation of Srebrenica as a UN safe area in July 1995, the mortal remains of about 6,000 victims of genocide have been found, in most cases incomplete.

The quest for the missing, truth, justice and closure for the souls of the deceased and the survivors continues."

curiosity

pre 14 godina

(Michael Thomas, 11 May 2010 15:45)
Question for you would be why would those bodies be dug up and moved to Serbia and buried in a mass grave if not to hide something?

trudsaam

pre 14 godina

I can't beleive what I am reading above!

ej, maybe they decided to
walk or drive over 100 km , and when they reached Raska , they decided to commit suicide.
(Kosova-USA)
-
Anything is possible I guess.

And in regards to this "S" character you are referring to. Time to wake up frm your deep sleep 20years ago friend... S no longer roams the streets, S no longer leads, S is dead in case you didnt know... so try to come up with something more relevent to read on this site, your blabber is tiresome. Good day

tesla

pre 14 godina

"The only evidence that is loughted at comes from Serbia, remember that the UN told its member states to void Serb warants. Just remember that it is precisely the rediculous statments from Serbs that made themself discredited from any responcibility.
(iFred, 11 May 2010 13:35)

iFred, what does "loughted" mean? i have no idea what your post said.--also, spellcheck is your friend.

tesla

pre 14 godina

Perhaps former press secretary James Reuben can help with the excavation, along with his wife Christianne Amanpour. I still have the VHS CNN tape where he described how military intervention was necessary because soccer fields in Pristina were being converted into mass graves by the dreaded MUP. No apologies from him since, nor any word from the "journalist" Amanpour. Truth is the first casualty of war. As far as Serbs are concerned, we have suffered the most in Kosovo, where our people have been harassed, beaten, cleansed and murdered for the last century - a genocide which dwarfs the collateral damage (albanian deaths -mostly KLA) during the late 90's. No use trying to make Serbs feel guilty about anything.

care

pre 14 godina

Saw in the news this morning, the deaths were suspected to be the result of the Serbian paramilitary but as it turns out, it appears they were victims of a NATO 'mistake'.

trudsaam

pre 14 godina

a further reason why Kosovo had deserved the independence !!!!
(Luis)
-
Not a good at all. Serbs were being slaughtered in the Nuremburg concentration camp, you mean to say (according to your logic of course), that this land belongs to Serbia?.... Looks like your view of "Veliki Srbija" only exists in the minds of the Albanos afterall....

Ataman

pre 14 godina

This is from one of the experts on mass graves, amor masovic, on the srebrenica genocide site. it is fairly recent, and describes the eclectic nature of the many different mass graves. do not keep denying them.
(roberto, 11 May 2010 23:36)

1) The link of Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, Zürich I did mention keeps denying your numbers. The article is written by Anes Alić from Sarajevo - hardly a Milošević agent because "Alić" means "son/daughter of Ali".

Her article talks about 13000 missing people. Where are your links?

Do not get me wrong. For me, Bosnians are not any "worse" or "further" from us than Serbs or Croats just because of "religion". I am fully aware, they (Bosnians) en large were among the biggest supporters of YU being kept in one piece. Despite the disaster what Izetbegovic did mean for the country.

The 13000 - if it is true - is an awfully big number. No need to inflate it to make a political point. And going on the anti-Russian crusade is indirect way insulting not just Serbs but precisely Bosnians and Croats, too. Think why I am saying it.

2) I can tell you PRECISELY where was the point where I did turn around. We lived in Germany during the first phase of the civil war in YU and I believed everything mass media did say, absolutely. All we did was just to shake our heads: "what did hit these people? Rape camps, mass graves, etc. etc.". Some stories were unbelievable - but we did bravely believed.

Later I got H1B visa to work and live in America and we settled on the East Coast first. I was on my way south from a conference in Boston, by train. I had to change trains in Providence, RI. I had an hour or two at the station and went to a book store to browse the books and newspapers. There I noticed some neo-liberal-whatever-greeen-peace-what-not journal which looked pretty sympathetic for me. I took in my hand and it was a detailed description there how Serbs in Belgrade watch on prime time TV news live rape of Bosnian women, all details included(!!!)

Since I knew very well the socialist broadcasting rules (what level of nudity could be shown, when and how and what details) it was obvious for me that it's an ugly, nasty lie, one of the most dirty piece of propaganda I ever seen.

We are very sensitive to this kind of stuff - that moment the entire nice anti-Serb building did collapse.

Now think twice.... Who and why put this kind of "masterpiece" in a basically good-willing journal. And was that journal good-willing after all?

Than of course we learned one or an other thing... and more and more did it look, the entire propaganda machine works against than-Yugo (not merely against Milošević!) 7/24.

BTW: that Milošević was your "colleague". His hatred of anything Russian was not just legendary - it was close to paranoia. And wasn't he the head of Beobanka at one point, a Wall Street insider? ;-)

What is interesting: among defenders of Milošević are such Russian dissidents as Aleksandr Zinovyev who wrote "Зияющие Высоты" (Yawning Heights) I was lucky to read as it was Samizdat and we smuggled it in beyond Iron Curtain.

Regardless, he (Milošević) ordered his best man (Stambolić) being killed and it is a good sign, it was quite a bit unkosher around him. We strongly believe, he was a criminal-turned communist apparatchik.

Peggy

pre 14 godina

Vukčević told B92 TV on Monday that it is not known who killed the victims, while witnesses said that the site might contain the bodies of 250 Kosovo Albanians.



I can't beleive what I am reading above!

ej, maybe they decided to
walk or drive over 100 km , and when they reached Raska , they decided to commit suicide.
(Kosova-USA, 11 May 2010 10:55)
=====================
How is saying that it is not known who killed these people implying that they might've killed themselves?
Go on, tell us, how?
All they are saying is that nothing is known yet but they will investigate. Why is this so hard for you to accept?
They haven't even dug up anything yet and are prepared to entertain the idea that there are bodies there and this is not good enough for you.
What do you want them to say?
Do you want them to give us the number of people burried there, who they are and who killed them BEFORE they even dig?

Michael Thomas

pre 14 godina

How is this news? No land has been excavated and no bodies found. And yet we are told by you in the “free press” that there are 250 Albanians buried there. We have heard this type of “story” many times before. Mass graves containing “hundreds, possibly thousands of people murdered by Serbs” have been found only in the lurid imaginations of Serbia’s American masters.

Zoran

pre 14 godina

Excavation will soon begin near the town of Raška, where a suspected mass grave is located
--
"suspected mass grave" - now that's better. Lets get the facts and take appropriate action without the unnecessary eye poking. It's a good thing Serbia is dealing with its past and in that respect is the regional leader while other ethnicities, NATO, etc... are still keeping their closets closed.

Dragan

pre 14 godina

@Michael Thomas

Exactly! I remember these very same people telling us that Serbs were throwing dead albanians down the Trepca mine shaft, and that there were '100,000 dead albanians'....which all turned out to be dispicable lies and propoganda. And now I'm supposed to believe Eulex (who are basicaly the same bunch) based on zero evidence?? Yeah, I wasn't born yesterday like many on here.
This should not even be news, but BBC and other sites were already blackening Serbia's name yesterday with this garbage. Typical.

Michael Thomas

pre 14 godina

iFred

Mass graves are “found” or “invented” by the Americans whenever it suits their wider geopolitical agenda.

You can’t accuse me of insensitivity towards “the victims” because we have no evidence that there are any victims. This could be one of the “invented” mass graves.

While you are correct that some real mass graves have been “found” you are wrong to immediately believe the BBC/CNN story that follows these “discoveries.”

Among the corpses uncovered in Petrovo Selo (central Serbia) were Albanians previously buried in Izbica in Kosovo. The American occupiers claimed that Serbs had reburied these Albanians in order to hide their warcrimes. But there was a problem; several of these Albanians had had autopsies and had been given death certificates by the Serbian authorities in Kosovo. The Serbs were clearly not “hiding” these deaths, they investigated and reported them and then buried them. Why would Serbs go to the effort to move these bodies from Izbica to Petrovo Selo when they clearly believed that they had nothing to hide? The Americans, who occupy Kosovo and control Belgrade, have every reason to “invent” mass graves to justify their aggression against Yugoslavia and their continued occupation of Kosovo.

roberto

pre 14 godina

>>Why the surprise we are dealing with serbs here.
(Bekim, 11 May 2010 15:26)

Bekim -- If you read me at all, you know i'm not in this for a popularity contest. i write what i know, what i have experienced, how i analyze it all. people can feel free to agree or disagree.

this situation with the latest mass grave -- it is exactly what we have been saying (except for location) -- it is horrible, there's no way to minimize it. it is incredibly angering, knowing that they have waited until they were forced (in essence) to move. and then they try to take credit for "cooperation." it is too much, sometimes.

and the denial, the spread of suspicion... exactly as we see here today, again and again. that is disgusting, but very old hat. can you imagine: of all the mass graves so far uncovered in bosnia, and there are at least hundreds of them -- each time it is opened and the grueling work of the digging, then the id'ing... each time, we are assaulted w/ a slew of misrepresentations, suspicions, and down-right lies. "it's mujehadeen, its green berets, its muslim fundamentalists..." i've spoken often to dr. eva (the forensic anthropologist who has done most of the actual work) and she just says: ignore them and their lies. which is what we have to learn to do.

BUT, i will repeat it a thousand times -- it is NOT all serbs. many, yes. way too many. and many of their allies (so-called) around the world. but not ALL. i have many serb frnds and acquaintances, who are absolutely outspoken about their opposition to what milosevic and his evil legacy -- they spend much of their lives fighting against it, fighting to spread the truth.

of course they are in the minority, of course you rarely read them here, of course they are so often the objects of scorn and wrath by other serbs. but they persevere, and i admire them tremendously. that is why i can never generalize about "the serbs."

anyway, all of these ethnic generalizations start as stereotypes and end up feeding racist hate. they are counter-productive to our future and that of our children.

excuse me for "preaching" but i have to call it as i see it. pls keep posting but also pls w an open mind... thanks.

roberto
frisco

Kosova-USA

pre 14 godina

Vukčević told B92 TV on Monday that it is not known who killed the victims, while witnesses said that the site might contain the bodies of 250 Kosovo Albanians.


Mr. Prosecutor , can I give you a clue who killed them, it starts with S. Maybe is easy for you now to track down the killers.

Bekim

pre 14 godina

Vukčević told B92 TV on Monday that it is not known who killed the victims, while witnesses said that the site might contain the bodies of 250 Kosovo Albanians.



I can't beleive what I am reading above!

ej, maybe they decided to
walk or drive over 100 km , and when they reached Raska , they decided to commit suicide.
(Kosova-USA, 11 May 2010 10:55)

Why the surprise we are dealing with serbs here.

Kosova-USA

pre 14 godina

Vukčević told B92 TV on Monday that it is not known who killed the victims, while witnesses said that the site might contain the bodies of 250 Kosovo Albanians.



I can't beleive what I am reading above!

ej, maybe they decided to
walk or drive over 100 km , and when they reached Raska , they decided to commit suicide.

roberto

pre 14 godina

This is from one of the experts on mass graves, amor masovic, on the srebrenica genocide site. it is fairly recent, and describes the eclectic nature of the many different mass graves. do not keep denying them. i will furnish the best # i can when i hear from dr. eva. she should know since she's been in most of them, and isn't just speculating. but i trust him and he says OVER 400. Thank you for keeping me on my toes!:

"During the aggression against the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina which lasted from early 1992 to the end of 1995, 27,734 people were listed as missing, most of them victims of genocide and other crimes against humanity and violations of international humanitarian law. More than 85% of these missing persons were Bosniaks.

Thirteen years after the end of the war, the mortal remains of about 20,000 missing persons who were citizens of Bosnia and Herzegovina have been found.

The victims have been exhumed from primary and secondary mass graves, natural pits as much as 80 metres deep, mines, and multiple, single and other graves in Bosnia and Herzegovina, the Republic of Croatia, and the Republic of Serbia.

A great majority of the victims have been exhumed from more than 400 mass graves, in which the mortal remains of between 5 and 1,153 people were found.

Of the 8,372 persons missing during the occupation of Srebrenica as a UN safe area in July 1995, the mortal remains of about 6,000 victims of genocide have been found, in most cases incomplete.

The quest for the missing, truth, justice and closure for the souls of the deceased and the survivors continues."

iFred

pre 14 godina

Michael Thomas, please do not be a loughing stock in here, if not for your inteligence on the topic, it is for the respect of the victims.

This mass grave will be the second biggest after the one near Belgrade that contained 600+ people.
Here it is: It is not the first time mass graves from the conflict have been found in Serbia. The bodies of more than 800 Kosovo Albanians were found in several locations in Serbia in 2001, including police compounds.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8671783.stm

Mass grave after mass grave, the Serb contience seams to be a cold rock of denial.

The only evidence that is loughted at comes from Serbia, remember that the UN told its member states to void Serb warants. Just remember that it is precisely the rediculous statments from Serbs that made themself discredited from any responcibility.

milan

pre 14 godina

Since everybody is a ghoul and people love to dig up mass graves-why not go and dig up the worlds largest and biggest mass graves.

Those MASS GRAVES are in southern Iraq-over 100,000 Iraqi's were buried there in the early 90's by american bulldozers.

Of course nobody will ever do that-in the corrupt reality of western europe and america it has never been about the actuall crime-its about who commited the crime and what ends will it serve to expand and strengthen the empire through propaganda.

svojgazda

pre 14 godina

Slow down Kosova, let the authorities do their work before you do the judging and executing. It's a bit early to rush to judgement. There were a lot of players involved in the Serbian/Albanian conflict. Maybe the prosecutor is saying that the perpetrators may have been regular army, or paramilitary. No one is sure of the exact identities of the victims, or the number. I understand that you can hardly wait to point your finger at anything bad about Serbia, too bad you, and other albanians here, don't have the same enthusiasm about the missing and dead of other ethnicities, killed by the Albanian KLA.

curiosity

pre 14 godina

(Michael Thomas, 11 May 2010 15:45)
Question for you would be why would those bodies be dug up and moved to Serbia and buried in a mass grave if not to hide something?

Ataman

pre 14 godina

can you imagine: of all the mass graves so far uncovered in bosnia, and there are at least hundreds of them

roberto
frisco
(roberto, 11 May 2010 18:33)

No, I CAN NOT. Again: I CAN NOT. Why? Mathematics. Please do your math first.

"hundreds" of mass graves = at least 200 mass graves. "mass gave" = how many dead?
How many missing in Bosnia?

According Bosnian muslims 13000, that is including probably 5000 not-yet-identified remains.
Hardly a Serbian propaganda: http://tinyurl.com/35k6ua6

The number is awful lot - and even more tragic is, the Bosnians, Serbs, Croatians represent the same ethnic element - if that is important.

Where I am upset: I see no plan. What I see is that you keep pouring more and more fuel into fire and if there is a positive development - like this one - than even more fuel is being poured.

At the same time you could not answer a single "challenge question" I asked you. There is no dialogue. You produce only monologues and with these monologues you alienate as many people as possible. Ever, a single time - did you admit a mistake?

Otherwise I am not very happy you did chose precisely Bekim (a known ultra-nationalist) to support either - why not Louie, Gustave, Village-Bey?

------

Back to the topic - I would not comment on it yet. I feel that not less, than death penalty is justified in the Bytyqi case. But this case is not even begun yet.

Kudos to Serbian government that they are very pro-active. My hope is that who ever did such crimes will pay for it.

To (somewhat) lessen the damage you make on Jews - here are some writings of Julia Gorin and Israel Shamir. There are probably no two more diverse persons than Julia and Israel - but (not-so-surprisingly) their views about Serbia are nearly identical. Probably because somewhere inside they are still Russians and not brainwashed:

http://www.juliagorin.com
http://www.israelshamir.net

Denis

pre 14 godina

Excavation will soon begin near the town of Raška, where a suspected mass grave is located
--
"suspected mass grave" - now that's better. Lets get the facts and take appropriate action without the unnecessary eye poking. It's a good thing Serbia is dealing with its past and in that respect is the regional leader while other ethnicities, NATO, etc... are still keeping their closets closed.
(Zoran, 11 May 2010 11:17)

Well yeah, it's the 21 century and the name of your beloved Serbia many times is in the same sentence with words "mass grave".

Of course Serbia is a leader in facing its past, just like it was a leader in digging these mass graves and filling them up with dead bodies at the first place.

Not sure which part makes you proud, but please don't act supprised, like this is something unheard of for Serbia & the Serbs. We all know what you were capable of.

trudsaam

pre 14 godina

a further reason why Kosovo had deserved the independence !!!!
(Luis)
-
Not a good at all. Serbs were being slaughtered in the Nuremburg concentration camp, you mean to say (according to your logic of course), that this land belongs to Serbia?.... Looks like your view of "Veliki Srbija" only exists in the minds of the Albanos afterall....

Peggy

pre 14 godina

Vukčević told B92 TV on Monday that it is not known who killed the victims, while witnesses said that the site might contain the bodies of 250 Kosovo Albanians.



I can't beleive what I am reading above!

ej, maybe they decided to
walk or drive over 100 km , and when they reached Raska , they decided to commit suicide.
(Kosova-USA, 11 May 2010 10:55)
=====================
How is saying that it is not known who killed these people implying that they might've killed themselves?
Go on, tell us, how?
All they are saying is that nothing is known yet but they will investigate. Why is this so hard for you to accept?
They haven't even dug up anything yet and are prepared to entertain the idea that there are bodies there and this is not good enough for you.
What do you want them to say?
Do you want them to give us the number of people burried there, who they are and who killed them BEFORE they even dig?

trudsaam

pre 14 godina

I can't beleive what I am reading above!

ej, maybe they decided to
walk or drive over 100 km , and when they reached Raska , they decided to commit suicide.
(Kosova-USA)
-
Anything is possible I guess.

And in regards to this "S" character you are referring to. Time to wake up frm your deep sleep 20years ago friend... S no longer roams the streets, S no longer leads, S is dead in case you didnt know... so try to come up with something more relevent to read on this site, your blabber is tiresome. Good day

tesla

pre 14 godina

Perhaps former press secretary James Reuben can help with the excavation, along with his wife Christianne Amanpour. I still have the VHS CNN tape where he described how military intervention was necessary because soccer fields in Pristina were being converted into mass graves by the dreaded MUP. No apologies from him since, nor any word from the "journalist" Amanpour. Truth is the first casualty of war. As far as Serbs are concerned, we have suffered the most in Kosovo, where our people have been harassed, beaten, cleansed and murdered for the last century - a genocide which dwarfs the collateral damage (albanian deaths -mostly KLA) during the late 90's. No use trying to make Serbs feel guilty about anything.

Ataman

pre 14 godina

This is from one of the experts on mass graves, amor masovic, on the srebrenica genocide site. it is fairly recent, and describes the eclectic nature of the many different mass graves. do not keep denying them.
(roberto, 11 May 2010 23:36)

1) The link of Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, Zürich I did mention keeps denying your numbers. The article is written by Anes Alić from Sarajevo - hardly a Milošević agent because "Alić" means "son/daughter of Ali".

Her article talks about 13000 missing people. Where are your links?

Do not get me wrong. For me, Bosnians are not any "worse" or "further" from us than Serbs or Croats just because of "religion". I am fully aware, they (Bosnians) en large were among the biggest supporters of YU being kept in one piece. Despite the disaster what Izetbegovic did mean for the country.

The 13000 - if it is true - is an awfully big number. No need to inflate it to make a political point. And going on the anti-Russian crusade is indirect way insulting not just Serbs but precisely Bosnians and Croats, too. Think why I am saying it.

2) I can tell you PRECISELY where was the point where I did turn around. We lived in Germany during the first phase of the civil war in YU and I believed everything mass media did say, absolutely. All we did was just to shake our heads: "what did hit these people? Rape camps, mass graves, etc. etc.". Some stories were unbelievable - but we did bravely believed.

Later I got H1B visa to work and live in America and we settled on the East Coast first. I was on my way south from a conference in Boston, by train. I had to change trains in Providence, RI. I had an hour or two at the station and went to a book store to browse the books and newspapers. There I noticed some neo-liberal-whatever-greeen-peace-what-not journal which looked pretty sympathetic for me. I took in my hand and it was a detailed description there how Serbs in Belgrade watch on prime time TV news live rape of Bosnian women, all details included(!!!)

Since I knew very well the socialist broadcasting rules (what level of nudity could be shown, when and how and what details) it was obvious for me that it's an ugly, nasty lie, one of the most dirty piece of propaganda I ever seen.

We are very sensitive to this kind of stuff - that moment the entire nice anti-Serb building did collapse.

Now think twice.... Who and why put this kind of "masterpiece" in a basically good-willing journal. And was that journal good-willing after all?

Than of course we learned one or an other thing... and more and more did it look, the entire propaganda machine works against than-Yugo (not merely against Milošević!) 7/24.

BTW: that Milošević was your "colleague". His hatred of anything Russian was not just legendary - it was close to paranoia. And wasn't he the head of Beobanka at one point, a Wall Street insider? ;-)

What is interesting: among defenders of Milošević are such Russian dissidents as Aleksandr Zinovyev who wrote "Зияющие Высоты" (Yawning Heights) I was lucky to read as it was Samizdat and we smuggled it in beyond Iron Curtain.

Regardless, he (Milošević) ordered his best man (Stambolić) being killed and it is a good sign, it was quite a bit unkosher around him. We strongly believe, he was a criminal-turned communist apparatchik.

care

pre 14 godina

Saw in the news this morning, the deaths were suspected to be the result of the Serbian paramilitary but as it turns out, it appears they were victims of a NATO 'mistake'.

tesla

pre 14 godina

"The only evidence that is loughted at comes from Serbia, remember that the UN told its member states to void Serb warants. Just remember that it is precisely the rediculous statments from Serbs that made themself discredited from any responcibility.
(iFred, 11 May 2010 13:35)

iFred, what does "loughted" mean? i have no idea what your post said.--also, spellcheck is your friend.