Unprecedented bailout for Greece

The Greek people will pass through difficult times, with wage cuts and increased taxes. But Greece will not get bankrupt. Because it is an extremelly important country both for Europe and the West. The biggest financial support in world history proves that. 110 billion Euros or 150 billion US dollars in just 2,5 years are free to be given to Greece. This proves how important Greece is for world economy. It's neither Hungary nor Romania. It's a country that nobody can afford or let get bankrupt.
(The Greek, 3 May 2010 10:37

My analysis is not as optimistic as yours.
Firstly the Greek crisis would never have happened if successive Greek governments hadn't grown the public sector massively, with big pay rises, pensions at about 92% of salary and generally spent like millionaires on the income of paupers.

A country like Greece which is approximately the same size as Austria and Portugal can afford to pay 768000 public employees as opposed to 150000 for Austria and 300000 for Portugal,not to mention the thousands of ghost public employees which exist only as payroll nombers.

Secondly,although corruption is not the prerogative of one country nevertheless it's
a serious problem in Greece and affecting all echelons of Greek society.Hardly any day goes without reading about corruption scandals and hardly any pepretrator is punished.

Thirdly and most importantly the problem lies with the single currency.The massive convergence that took place back in 2000 had the effect of reducing the competitiveness of every sector of the Greek economy.

The euro is a function of the politicians and not the markets, and it will be the people of europe that will pay a huge price for this folly.

"This proves how important Greece is for world economy. It's neither Hungary nor Romania. It's a country that nobody can afford or let get bankrupt."
(The Greek, 3 May 2010 10:37)

I hope the greeks themselves understand how important their country is...

And just asking myself how many Bulgarians or Hungarians or else would like to be Greeks right now and for the years to come.
(genc, 3 May 2010 12:39)

Can't vote for Bulgarians - but the number of Hungarians you mention totals probably 10 million or 100% of the country.

Hungary is very lucky to share much with UK, Sweden and Kosovo. The salaries are like in Kosovo, the prices like in UK, the taxes like in Sweden. The country is more bankrupt than Greece - but luckily for Euro, the national currency is not Euro.

To give you the idea: Hungarian produce you buy in Kosovo costs there 3 times less, than in Hungary. But the after-tax salaries are the same.

People survive by having several jobs and being involved in "grey" or "black" economies.

Say, for instance - we our 12 year old car from the States, I had simply no time to sell it. The mechanics in Hungary are MUCH better than in the States and much cheaper. Do you think I ever got an invoice from him? Never got invoice for car parts either. Going by train? I always mention to the conductor, we do not need invoice for the sleeping car upgrade. That "magically" cuts the price sharply. Do you know, why?

Everything here is either "grey" or "black" or just straight illegal.

The Greek,

you sound sooo happy!

Just wondering how many Greeks share your euphoria (Greek word).

And just asking myself how many Bulgarians or Hungarians or else would like to be Greeks right now and for the years to come.

Where are our friends who were so busy screaming

GREECE HAVE NOT ASKED FOR ANY LOANS!
GREECE HAVE NOT ASKED FOR ANY LOANS!
GREECE HAVE NOT ASKED FOR ANY LOANS!
GREECE HAVE NOT ASKED FOR ANY LOANS!

that they could not hear reality knock on their heads with the truth about how bad their economy was?

It is when you let the water out of the pool that you know who is standing naked.
--

Why does anyone think that Serbia can get into the EU ever?

The Eu doesn't need another Greece.

Moral of the story is just over spend and get in to a huge debt so you cant see tomorrow then you will get even more EU money. The trick is to get in to a such a big debt the lenders will be to scared to pull the plug. So all you EU debt ridden countrys and folks best of all worlds the Greek party continues on OPA.

Can't vote for Bulgarians - but the number of Hungarians you mention totals probably 10 million or 100% of the country.

(Ataman, 3 May 2010 13:46)

OK 100 % is maybe a bit exagerated but 95 for sure and the same applies to Poles.And I think it has nothing to do with financial situation rather with lifestyle and mentality.Both poles and hungarians fall for greek way of living espescially those who prefer vivid life to boredoom.The greek simply rule.I myself are so happy to be in Athens for the weekend Olympiakos - PAOK ploayoff game.Good food real people with hot heart and blood and endless hospitality .And of course the atmosphere of Karaiskaki stadium which is difficult to match.And I am sure that my greek friends will survive current crises.They have gone through much more difficult situations in history.Their optimism and vitality always helps them.

The Greek people will pass through difficult times, with wage cuts and increased taxes. But Greece will not get bankrupt. Because it is an extremelly important country both for Europe and the West. The biggest financial support in world history proves that. 110 billion Euros or 150 billion US dollars in just 2,5 years are free to be given to Greece. This proves how important Greece is for world economy. It's neither Hungary nor Romania. It's a country that nobody can afford or let get bankrupt.

szemi,

the "Athens" you are talking about, where is it located exactly?

I live here (Athens) for over 20 years (unfortunately), and the only worse, rude, mean, impolite, bad people i found outside Athens, were only in Paris.

Greek hospitality is a myth, unfortunately.
Anyone who has traveled/stayed anywhere in Bosnia/Serbia (even Bulgaria) can easily see that.
The indifference of the neo-greeks even against their own clients (not to mention ... co-humans) is beyond any imagination.

In the street of athens, the most frequent phenomenon is fights between people/drivers/pedestrians/etc...
ah... talking about pedestrians, the zebra crossings here is smth .... unknown.

sorry to burst some bubbles, but if you expect from the greeks to lead the "pan-european" people's movement,
what can i say?
LMAO!

szemi,

the "Athens" you are talking about, where is it located exactly?

I live here (Athens) for over 20 years (unfortunately), and the only worse, rude, mean, impolite, bad people i found outside Athens
, were only in Paris.

Greek hospitality is a myth, unfortunately.
Anyone who has traveled/stayed anywhere in Bosnia/Serbia (even Bulgaria) can easily see that.
The indifference of the neo-greeks even against their own clients (not to mention ... co-humans) is beyond any imagination.

In the street of athens, the most frequent phenomenon is fights between people/drivers/pedestrians/etc...
ah... talking about pedestrians, the zebra crossings here is smth .... unknown.

sorry to burst some bubbles, but if you expect from the greeks to lead the "pan-european" people's movement,
what can i say?
LMAO!

The Greek people will pass through difficult times, with wage cuts and increased taxes. But Greece will not get bankrupt. Because it is an extremelly important country both for Europe and the West. The biggest financial support in world history proves that. 110 billion Euros or 150 billion US dollars in just 2,5 years are free to be given to Greece. This proves how important Greece is for world economy. It's neither Hungary nor Romania. It's a country that nobody can afford or let get bankrupt.

The Greek,

you sound sooo happy!

Just wondering how many Greeks share your euphoria (Greek word).

And just asking myself how many Bulgarians or Hungarians or else would like to be Greeks right now and for the years to come.

Why does anyone think that Serbia can get into the EU ever?

The Eu doesn't need another Greece.

Can't vote for Bulgarians - but the number of Hungarians you mention totals probably 10 million or 100% of the country.

(Ataman, 3 May 2010 13:46)

OK 100 % is maybe a bit exagerated but 95 for sure and the same applies to Poles.And I think it has nothing to do with financial situation rather with lifestyle and mentality.Both poles and hungarians fall for greek way of living espescially those who prefer vivid life to boredoom.The greek simply rule.I myself are so happy to be in Athens for the weekend Olympiakos - PAOK ploayoff game.Good food real people with hot heart and blood and endless hospitality .And of course the atmosphere of Karaiskaki stadium which is difficult to match.And I am sure that my greek friends will survive current crises.They have gone through much more difficult situations in history.Their optimism and vitality always helps them.

Where are our friends who were so busy screaming

GREECE HAVE NOT ASKED FOR ANY LOANS!
GREECE HAVE NOT ASKED FOR ANY LOANS!
GREECE HAVE NOT ASKED FOR ANY LOANS!
GREECE HAVE NOT ASKED FOR ANY LOANS!

that they could not hear reality knock on their heads with the truth about how bad their economy was?

It is when you let the water out of the pool that you know who is standing naked.
--

The Greek people will pass through difficult times, with wage cuts and increased taxes. But Greece will not get bankrupt. Because it is an extremelly important country both for Europe and the West. The biggest financial support in world history proves that. 110 billion Euros or 150 billion US dollars in just 2,5 years are free to be given to Greece. This proves how important Greece is for world economy. It's neither Hungary nor Romania. It's a country that nobody can afford or let get bankrupt.
(The Greek, 3 May 2010 10:37

My analysis is not as optimistic as yours.
Firstly the Greek crisis would never have happened if successive Greek governments hadn't grown the public sector massively, with big pay rises, pensions at about 92% of salary and generally spent like millionaires on the income of paupers.

A country like Greece which is approximately the same size as Austria and Portugal can afford to pay 768000 public employees as opposed to 150000 for Austria and 300000 for Portugal,not to mention the thousands of ghost public employees which exist only as payroll nombers.

Secondly,although corruption is not the prerogative of one country nevertheless it's
a serious problem in Greece and affecting all echelons of Greek society.Hardly any day goes without reading about corruption scandals and hardly any pepretrator is punished.

Thirdly and most importantly the problem lies with the single currency.The massive convergence that took place back in 2000 had the effect of reducing the competitiveness of every sector of the Greek economy.

The euro is a function of the politicians and not the markets, and it will be the people of europe that will pay a huge price for this folly.

"This proves how important Greece is for world economy. It's neither Hungary nor Romania. It's a country that nobody can afford or let get bankrupt."
(The Greek, 3 May 2010 10:37)

I hope the greeks themselves understand how important their country is...

szemi,

the "Athens" you are talking about, where is it located exactly?

I live here (Athens) for over 20 years (unfortunately), and the only worse, rude, mean, impolite, bad people i found outside Athens, were only in Paris.

Greek hospitality is a myth, unfortunately.
Anyone who has traveled/stayed anywhere in Bosnia/Serbia (even Bulgaria) can easily see that.
The indifference of the neo-greeks even against their own clients (not to mention ... co-humans) is beyond any imagination.

In the street of athens, the most frequent phenomenon is fights between people/drivers/pedestrians/etc...
ah... talking about pedestrians, the zebra crossings here is smth .... unknown.

sorry to burst some bubbles, but if you expect from the greeks to lead the "pan-european" people's movement,
what can i say?
LMAO!

szemi,

the "Athens" you are talking about, where is it located exactly?

I live here (Athens) for over 20 years (unfortunately), and the only worse, rude, mean, impolite, bad people i found outside Athens
, were only in Paris.

Greek hospitality is a myth, unfortunately.
Anyone who has traveled/stayed anywhere in Bosnia/Serbia (even Bulgaria) can easily see that.
The indifference of the neo-greeks even against their own clients (not to mention ... co-humans) is beyond any imagination.

In the street of athens, the most frequent phenomenon is fights between people/drivers/pedestrians/etc...
ah... talking about pedestrians, the zebra crossings here is smth .... unknown.

sorry to burst some bubbles, but if you expect from the greeks to lead the "pan-european" people's movement,
what can i say?
LMAO!

And just asking myself how many Bulgarians or Hungarians or else would like to be Greeks right now and for the years to come.
(genc, 3 May 2010 12:39)

Can't vote for Bulgarians - but the number of Hungarians you mention totals probably 10 million or 100% of the country.

Hungary is very lucky to share much with UK, Sweden and Kosovo. The salaries are like in Kosovo, the prices like in UK, the taxes like in Sweden. The country is more bankrupt than Greece - but luckily for Euro, the national currency is not Euro.

To give you the idea: Hungarian produce you buy in Kosovo costs there 3 times less, than in Hungary. But the after-tax salaries are the same.

People survive by having several jobs and being involved in "grey" or "black" economies.

Say, for instance - we our 12 year old car from the States, I had simply no time to sell it. The mechanics in Hungary are MUCH better than in the States and much cheaper. Do you think I ever got an invoice from him? Never got invoice for car parts either. Going by train? I always mention to the conductor, we do not need invoice for the sleeping car upgrade. That "magically" cuts the price sharply. Do you know, why?

Everything here is either "grey" or "black" or just straight illegal.

Moral of the story is just over spend and get in to a huge debt so you cant see tomorrow then you will get even more EU money. The trick is to get in to a such a big debt the lenders will be to scared to pull the plug. So all you EU debt ridden countrys and folks best of all worlds the Greek party continues on OPA.