Greek bonds downgraded to '”junk” status

Greece then Portugal followed by Ireland and then the big ones Spain and Italy. The European Union is heading in the same direction as the Soviet Union. News flash from the year 2020, "Mircea is upset that the European Union destroyed Romania's economy".

Standard and Poor's cut Greek long-term government bonds three levels to speculative or "junk" status because of the "political, economic and budgetary challenges" facing Athens. The same agency downgraded Portugal's sovereign debt by two notches.

B92

Wasn't it the same Standard's
and Poor which together with Moody's back in 2008 they were categorically denying in front of the US senate budget committee that Lehman Brothers was bankrupt and maintaining the US banking system was sound.Few months later Lehman went bust and the banking system was bailed out to the tune of $3 trillion.

Greece's and other countries debts are all blown out of proportion and are manipulated bu the same "rating agencies" which are nothing more than arrogant Wall Street scum making billions out of people's misery and they don't see they've done anything wrong.

Toadd insult to injury we're constantly told that the bankers arent crooks and in fact they create wealth for their countries and they deserve their million bonuses.

Bottom line is capitalism is in his last last gasps now.

The idea behind the European Union works quite good. Just look how prosperous and peaceful Western and Northern Europe have become. It is the monitary union which is in doubt, because of the weak (Southern) economies you have in the boat, and especially when you have cheaters and liars onboard. Then, of course, those news we read above are far from a surprise. Nevertheless, Greece is exactly the reason why countries in Eastern and South Eastern Europe should/must join the Europe. Ever since 1952, Greece got Billions of financial help, making this rural country with an economy based on fishing a few ship yards, to the biggest economy in the Balkans.

But the Greece disaster will make many think twice to let countries join the EU or even the Euro zone. Croatia will definitely join in 2011-12, and then the door will be closed for an indefinite time. I guess that 2018-2020 will be the next wave.

"Greece's and other countries debts are all blown out of proportion and are manipulated bu the same "rating agencies" "

I am amazed at some people's refusal to admit that they f---ed up. Greece is a 'socialist paradise' funded by debt. You have no competitiveness either even if the debt disappeared tomorrow.

Why don't YOU and other Greeks buy Greek bonds? Why do you expect my pension manager to continue supporting you? The smart money has been on Greeks defaulting. Read this, by a very smart Greek economist, it's titled "The Painful Arithmetic of Greek Debt Default"

http://www.economics21.org/commentary/painful-arithmetic-greek-debt-default

Now get back to work and stop expecting handouts!

John,

by 2020 Croatia will be knocking Serbia's door again, as usual, not sure what the EU will mean by then.

EU was just a loose financial empire with a definite expiration date, and the sooner it goes out of function the quicker we will see what to do next.

Zoran,

The European Union has a bright future.

The Eurozone will continue to expand. On 1 January 2011 Estonia will adopt the Euro.

By the year 2020 Romania will be fully integrated into the EU as a member of the Schengen Area and the Eurozone.

In what condition will Serbia be in 2020?

Will Serbia be a blackhole surrounded by EU and NATO member states?

A piece worth reading http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/feldstein22/English

"Greece's and other countries debts are all blown out of proportion and are manipulated bu the same "rating agencies""
Leonidas

Sure, otherwise everything is just peachy. Reading you comment Pangloss in Candide of Voltaire comes to my mind, who said "All is for the best in the world".

Leonidsas wrote:

Bottom line is capitalism is in his last last gasps now...
=============================

Really? What do you suggest it will be replaced with?

Now Spain is starting to sink:

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100428-716811.html?mod=WSJ_World_MIDDLEHeadlinesEurope

Not a good time for Pro-Serbian EU countries. I wonder how long it will take until they give anything just to save they rears.

Sure, otherwise everything is just peachy. Reading you comment Pangloss in Candide of Voltaire comes to my mind, who said "All is for the best in the world".
(Joe, 28 April 2010 15

It's a common secret that "credit agencies" and hedge funds operate on the same frequency in synchronization.

We also know that these financial pornographers rip off people and goverments and then they throw up a lot of BS in the hope the financial jargon will stop people from asking questions.

All these Goldman hearings in US senate are nothing more than a show trial.Somehow Obama must show that he is in control of the situation.The truth is fraudsters have more intelligence we give them credit for but they have the morals of a chimp.
It also wants to quell the social unrest which sooner or later will surface not only in US but also in other societies.

Mircea,
stop worrying about Serbia (which is here for 1500 years and it will be for another 1500 as the recent history has shown) and start taking care of yourself, a little bit.

Toilet paper will be more valuable then paper money. The way the countrys print it to cover their outrages deficit spending. It is just to bad it is not good toilet paper their will be a lot of it around and worthless. To days generation is greedy beyond belief will waste future generations resources well being and clean environment for their short sited fat asses.

Zoran,

Yesterday you wrote on B92 "Ukraine is now firmly in Russia's hands and the time to expand that westwards is nearing."

How can this expansion westwards take place?

Keep in mind that the majority of countries in Central and Eastern Europe are members of NATO.

Also, NATO will expand to include Bosnia, Montenegro and Macedonia.

This is like the Ebola virus. See article in Bloomberg:

"Greece Turning Viral Sparks Search for EU Emergency Solutions
Share Business ExchangeTwitterFacebook| Email | Print | A A A
By Simon Kennedy

April 28 (Bloomberg) -- European policy makers may need to stump up as much as 600 billion euros ($794 billion) in aid or buy government bonds if they are to stamp out the region’s spreading fiscal crisis, said economists at Goldman Sachs Group Inc., JPMorgan Chase & Co. and Royal Bank of Scotland Group Plc.

As Greece’s budget turmoil infects markets from Rome to Dublin, economists are urging German Chancellor Angela Merkel, European Central Bank President Jean-Claude Trichet and other officials to come up with unprecedented measures. Other steps could see governments guaranteeing bonds and the ECB abandoning collateral rules or reviving unlimited lending to banks, the economists said.

"Obama must show that he is in control of the situation".
Leonidas

Wait a minute. Is Obama president of Greece? Are you sidestepping the issue like always? Either you are sidestepping it or minimize it "a la Panglos in Candide".
That will not solve your problem, read the subject of this article to refocus on your problem.

Obama must show that he is in control of the situation".
Leonidas

Wait a minute. Is Obama president of Greece? Are you sidestepping the issue like always? Either you are sidestepping it or minimize it "a la Panglos in Candide".
That will not solve your problem, read the subject of this article to refocus on your problem.
(Joe, 29 April 2010 01:51
You seem to think the Greek crisis is wholly self-inflicted.
The hedge funds and credit agencies are US owned and these agencies are the heart of the matter.

Why don't YOU and other Greeks buy Greek bonds? Why do you expect my pension manager to continue supporting you? The smart money has been on Greeks defaulting. Read this, by a very smart Greek economist, it's titled "The Painful Arithmetic of Greek Debt Default"

[link]

Now get back to work and stop expecting handouts!
(Gjergj, 28 April 2010 19:39

I will repeat the same thing again.
Do your homework before posting.
For your information more han 80% of Greek debt is owed
by Greek banks and investors.

Leonida,
In all history of market economies, short-term traders (or fraudsters) were only able to accelerate the trends, rather than create the trends.
In other words, there has never been a serious case where traders acted in contrast to the fundamental data of economic entities.

Another thought is that:
As we know WEST is divided in two parts (USA and EU).
Its main currencies are the Dollar and the Euro.
West is protected by NATO.
Do you think that the west would .... let some insignificant traders to destroy one of its parts?
NO WAY?
There would have been airplanes/bombs/armies a whole campaign to stop it!!!

So???

Is this attack to Greece, an attack to west?
from the west?

What is happening? really?

Or did West decided to ... limit its domain...
Kick Greece out and bring in some new boys ???

And who is gonna get Greece then?

Only God knows, and only He will help Hellenism survive once more.

(Mircea, 28 April 2010 15:55)

Where is this big bright future for the EU? Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania live off Euro aid like the rest of eastern europe. I have been to Romania recently and if that is what you call a bright future then you must live in a dreadful place to see that as bright.

Why promote an idea that has so many flaws as idealistic? The EU is in big trouble and NATO is a spent force defeated by Afghan peasants with primitive weapons. So what if Serbia is surrounded by NATO – do you think that being a member will increase productivity? Wake up and smell the roses; you’re just repeating words thrown at you by the media to make you feel warm and fuzzy.

What is the Schengen Area oh! You can move freely without a passport – big deal. What I am after is a good standard of living so that I can travel not this nonsense espoused by the EU telling me that I live well but “I still go to bed with an empty stomach”.

Leonidsas wrote:

Bottom line is capitalism is in his last last gasps now...
===…==

Really? What do you suggest it will be replaced with?
(Ment, 28 April 2010 20:35

In every mature democracy it's people which decide what they want and not individuals.

Iam not pretending that i have the right answers to deal with worldwide financial tsunamis.

One thing that iam certain is that capitalism as we know it had its chips already.

You seem to think the Greek crisis is wholly self-inflicted.
The hedge funds and credit agencies are US owned and these agencies are the heart of the matter.
(Leonidas, 29 April 2010 11:51)

I myself fully understand the anger of the greek.Hungary and Poland(and many others) have been the victims of the crooks and white collar criminals you mentioned in your previous comments so many times and they together with their lackies
heavily contributed to the misarable situation in which Hungary is currently.Unfortunatelly throgh the media they own and some self appointed forum spokesmen they twist the facts and try to blame the anyway non-existing laziness of greek or hungarians for the problems they had caused .Impudance has no limits.

Zoran,

The European Union has a bright future.

The Eurozone will continue to expand. On 1 January 2011 Estonia will adopt the Euro.

By the year 2020 Romania will be fully integrated into the EU as a member of the Schengen Area and the Eurozone.

In what condition will Serbia be in 2020?

Will Serbia be a blackhole surrounded by EU and NATO member states?

Greece then Portugal followed by Ireland and then the big ones Spain and Italy. The European Union is heading in the same direction as the Soviet Union. News flash from the year 2020, "Mircea is upset that the European Union destroyed Romania's economy".

"Greece's and other countries debts are all blown out of proportion and are manipulated bu the same "rating agencies""
Leonidas

Sure, otherwise everything is just peachy. Reading you comment Pangloss in Candide of Voltaire comes to my mind, who said "All is for the best in the world".

John,

by 2020 Croatia will be knocking Serbia's door again, as usual, not sure what the EU will mean by then.

EU was just a loose financial empire with a definite expiration date, and the sooner it goes out of function the quicker we will see what to do next.

Now Spain is starting to sink:

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100428-716811.html?mod=WSJ_World_MIDDLEHeadlinesEurope

Not a good time for Pro-Serbian EU countries. I wonder how long it will take until they give anything just to save they rears.

Standard and Poor's cut Greek long-term government bonds three levels to speculative or "junk" status because of the "political, economic and budgetary challenges" facing Athens. The same agency downgraded Portugal's sovereign debt by two notches.

B92

Wasn't it the same Standard's
and Poor which together with Moody's back in 2008 they were categorically denying in front of the US senate budget committee that Lehman Brothers was bankrupt and maintaining the US banking system was sound.Few months later Lehman went bust and the banking system was bailed out to the tune of $3 trillion.

Greece's and other countries debts are all blown out of proportion and are manipulated bu the same "rating agencies" which are nothing more than arrogant Wall Street scum making billions out of people's misery and they don't see they've done anything wrong.

Toadd insult to injury we're constantly told that the bankers arent crooks and in fact they create wealth for their countries and they deserve their million bonuses.

Bottom line is capitalism is in his last last gasps now.

A piece worth reading http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/feldstein22/English

Mircea,
stop worrying about Serbia (which is here for 1500 years and it will be for another 1500 as the recent history has shown) and start taking care of yourself, a little bit.

The idea behind the European Union works quite good. Just look how prosperous and peaceful Western and Northern Europe have become. It is the monitary union which is in doubt, because of the weak (Southern) economies you have in the boat, and especially when you have cheaters and liars onboard. Then, of course, those news we read above are far from a surprise. Nevertheless, Greece is exactly the reason why countries in Eastern and South Eastern Europe should/must join the Europe. Ever since 1952, Greece got Billions of financial help, making this rural country with an economy based on fishing a few ship yards, to the biggest economy in the Balkans.

But the Greece disaster will make many think twice to let countries join the EU or even the Euro zone. Croatia will definitely join in 2011-12, and then the door will be closed for an indefinite time. I guess that 2018-2020 will be the next wave.

Zoran,

Yesterday you wrote on B92 "Ukraine is now firmly in Russia's hands and the time to expand that westwards is nearing."

How can this expansion westwards take place?

Keep in mind that the majority of countries in Central and Eastern Europe are members of NATO.

Also, NATO will expand to include Bosnia, Montenegro and Macedonia.

Leonidsas wrote:

Bottom line is capitalism is in his last last gasps now...
=============================

Really? What do you suggest it will be replaced with?

Toilet paper will be more valuable then paper money. The way the countrys print it to cover their outrages deficit spending. It is just to bad it is not good toilet paper their will be a lot of it around and worthless. To days generation is greedy beyond belief will waste future generations resources well being and clean environment for their short sited fat asses.

You seem to think the Greek crisis is wholly self-inflicted.
The hedge funds and credit agencies are US owned and these agencies are the heart of the matter.
(Leonidas, 29 April 2010 11:51)

I myself fully understand the anger of the greek.Hungary and Poland(and many others) have been the victims of the crooks and white collar criminals you mentioned in your previous comments so many times and they together with their lackies
heavily contributed to the misarable situation in which Hungary is currently.Unfortunatelly throgh the media they own and some self appointed forum spokesmen they twist the facts and try to blame the anyway non-existing laziness of greek or hungarians for the problems they had caused .Impudance has no limits.

"Greece's and other countries debts are all blown out of proportion and are manipulated bu the same "rating agencies" "

I am amazed at some people's refusal to admit that they f---ed up. Greece is a 'socialist paradise' funded by debt. You have no competitiveness either even if the debt disappeared tomorrow.

Why don't YOU and other Greeks buy Greek bonds? Why do you expect my pension manager to continue supporting you? The smart money has been on Greeks defaulting. Read this, by a very smart Greek economist, it's titled "The Painful Arithmetic of Greek Debt Default"

http://www.economics21.org/commentary/painful-arithmetic-greek-debt-default

Now get back to work and stop expecting handouts!

(Mircea, 28 April 2010 15:55)

Where is this big bright future for the EU? Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania live off Euro aid like the rest of eastern europe. I have been to Romania recently and if that is what you call a bright future then you must live in a dreadful place to see that as bright.

Why promote an idea that has so many flaws as idealistic? The EU is in big trouble and NATO is a spent force defeated by Afghan peasants with primitive weapons. So what if Serbia is surrounded by NATO – do you think that being a member will increase productivity? Wake up and smell the roses; you’re just repeating words thrown at you by the media to make you feel warm and fuzzy.

What is the Schengen Area oh! You can move freely without a passport – big deal. What I am after is a good standard of living so that I can travel not this nonsense espoused by the EU telling me that I live well but “I still go to bed with an empty stomach”.

Sure, otherwise everything is just peachy. Reading you comment Pangloss in Candide of Voltaire comes to my mind, who said "All is for the best in the world".
(Joe, 28 April 2010 15

It's a common secret that "credit agencies" and hedge funds operate on the same frequency in synchronization.

We also know that these financial pornographers rip off people and goverments and then they throw up a lot of BS in the hope the financial jargon will stop people from asking questions.

All these Goldman hearings in US senate are nothing more than a show trial.Somehow Obama must show that he is in control of the situation.The truth is fraudsters have more intelligence we give them credit for but they have the morals of a chimp.
It also wants to quell the social unrest which sooner or later will surface not only in US but also in other societies.

Why don't YOU and other Greeks buy Greek bonds? Why do you expect my pension manager to continue supporting you? The smart money has been on Greeks defaulting. Read this, by a very smart Greek economist, it's titled "The Painful Arithmetic of Greek Debt Default"

[link]

Now get back to work and stop expecting handouts!
(Gjergj, 28 April 2010 19:39

I will repeat the same thing again.
Do your homework before posting.
For your information more han 80% of Greek debt is owed
by Greek banks and investors.

Leonidsas wrote:

Bottom line is capitalism is in his last last gasps now...
===…==

Really? What do you suggest it will be replaced with?
(Ment, 28 April 2010 20:35

In every mature democracy it's people which decide what they want and not individuals.

Iam not pretending that i have the right answers to deal with worldwide financial tsunamis.

One thing that iam certain is that capitalism as we know it had its chips already.

Leonida,
In all history of market economies, short-term traders (or fraudsters) were only able to accelerate the trends, rather than create the trends.
In other words, there has never been a serious case where traders acted in contrast to the fundamental data of economic entities.

Another thought is that:
As we know WEST is divided in two parts (USA and EU).
Its main currencies are the Dollar and the Euro.
West is protected by NATO.
Do you think that the west would .... let some insignificant traders to destroy one of its parts?
NO WAY?
There would have been airplanes/bombs/armies a whole campaign to stop it!!!

So???

Is this attack to Greece, an attack to west?
from the west?

What is happening? really?

Or did West decided to ... limit its domain...
Kick Greece out and bring in some new boys ???

And who is gonna get Greece then?

Only God knows, and only He will help Hellenism survive once more.

This is like the Ebola virus. See article in Bloomberg:

"Greece Turning Viral Sparks Search for EU Emergency Solutions
Share Business ExchangeTwitterFacebook| Email | Print | A A A
By Simon Kennedy

April 28 (Bloomberg) -- European policy makers may need to stump up as much as 600 billion euros ($794 billion) in aid or buy government bonds if they are to stamp out the region’s spreading fiscal crisis, said economists at Goldman Sachs Group Inc., JPMorgan Chase & Co. and Royal Bank of Scotland Group Plc.

As Greece’s budget turmoil infects markets from Rome to Dublin, economists are urging German Chancellor Angela Merkel, European Central Bank President Jean-Claude Trichet and other officials to come up with unprecedented measures. Other steps could see governments guaranteeing bonds and the ECB abandoning collateral rules or reviving unlimited lending to banks, the economists said.

"Obama must show that he is in control of the situation".
Leonidas

Wait a minute. Is Obama president of Greece? Are you sidestepping the issue like always? Either you are sidestepping it or minimize it "a la Panglos in Candide".
That will not solve your problem, read the subject of this article to refocus on your problem.

Obama must show that he is in control of the situation".
Leonidas

Wait a minute. Is Obama president of Greece? Are you sidestepping the issue like always? Either you are sidestepping it or minimize it "a la Panglos in Candide".
That will not solve your problem, read the subject of this article to refocus on your problem.
(Joe, 29 April 2010 01:51
You seem to think the Greek crisis is wholly self-inflicted.
The hedge funds and credit agencies are US owned and these agencies are the heart of the matter.