Merkel cautious about handout for Greece

Bye bye Fakelaki Greece. In a year you will be out of EU since you cant afford EMU
(Gjergj, 27 April 2010 10:46

The usual Albanian nonsense you read on this forum.

If you did your homework before posting you'll see that under existing EU laws Greece cannot be forced out of the Eurozone.

In fact if the Bundestag blocks the loans to Greece then it will be better for Greece to default within the eurozone which will put several German and French banks at risk.

If Greece defaults then the crisis will spread to Portugal and beyond.Portugal's externaal debt to GDP ratio will reach a staggering 95% for the state plus 159% for the private sector.Portugal together with Greece and Spain lost 25% of their competitiveness within the last year as a member of the Eurozone.

This is Europe's subprime crisis and it will blow up.

"This is not a rescue operation. This is a consolidation of Europe's walls; the walls of the euro. It's a rescue for all of us," Frattini said.
--
It certainly is a rescue for "all of us". Greece is just the beginning and Germany will need to dig very deep to save everyone. Deep enough that it could destroy Germany's finances.

Now I know why Greece has problems! Read my post again, YOU will leave EU and through that EMU. You cannot leave EMU but you can leave EU and by that leave EMU at the same time.

How /why?

You are bankrupt.
Huge deficits.
Euro as currency.
Cannot balance budgets (eu will eventually fine you, cut the cohesion funds etc.)
Cannot pay your workers with Euros so you invent IOU, a clear violation of Eurozone, and riots erupt.

Instead of going through that, you will leave on your own. Germans cannot bail everyone, they are in debt for themselves. Even if they provide funds, you must cut salaries by 30%, or no funds so see above ^
(Gjergj, 27 April 2010 13:51)


... and Greece would become even more poorer. The only reason Greece had a half decent economy in the first place is because after WW2, the West gave it loads of money to stop it going communist. If Greece wants to leave the EU, then let it. It'll stop Greece from being so reliant. I think for humanitarian reasons Greece should be in the EU, I don't want to see the Greeks living in a third world country. Greece needs to stop being so stubborn.

Bye bye Fakelaki Greece. In a year you will be out of EU since you cant afford EMU

Instead of going through that, you will leave on your own. Germans cannot bail everyone, they are in debt for themselves. Even if they provide funds, you must cut salaries by 30%, or no funds so see above ^
(Gjergj, 27 April 2010 13:51

If the present Greek goverment had any sense they should've abandon the so-called rescue attempts and default.Greece will be better off without the rigidity and constraints of the euro.

The new austerity plans the Germans demand will certainly lead the country to severe depression which will lead to more social unrest.

But looking at the overall picture of indeptedness in Europe you realise that Greece is not the exception but the general rule.

The regulating bodies of capitalism IMF,ECB and world bank demand the reduction of living standards in every country which will lead the european populations to poverty.

My feeling has always been that capitalism and EU are kaput.They've swallowed the last drops of credit in a collapsing market.It's about time the European people start taking care of their fortunes and look at expropriating all the Mantoffs of this world.

"If you did your homework before posting you'll see that under existing EU laws Greece cannot be forced out of the Eurozone. "

Now I know why Greece has problems! Read my post again, YOU will leave EU and through that EMU. You cannot leave EMU but you can leave EU and by that leave EMU at the same time.

How /why?

You are bankrupt.
Huge deficits.
Euro as currency.
Cannot balance budgets (eu will eventually fine you, cut the cohesion funds etc.)
Cannot pay your workers with Euros so you invent IOU, a clear violation of Eurozone, and riots erupt.

Instead of going through that, you will leave on your own. Germans cannot bail everyone, they are in debt for themselves. Even if they provide funds, you must cut salaries by 30%, or no funds so see above ^

John,
your broken highly unreliable german cars or other products (thats what the loans are for) didn't have the slightest impact on the greek way of living.

We can go on with our lives buying Japanese/Korean goods (which are 100% better and more reliable than your german junk).

Now talking about military equipment, and all the rest.

Mr John, you and we have the same BOSS = USA.

USA orders and the submissive nations like yours and ours execute the orders.

its been like that since 1945.

Just like Greeks are too naive sometimes, i also think the very same for Germans as well.

Of course she is (pretends to be) cautious. The overwhelming majority of Germany clearly opposes to help the Greek cheaters. In fact, Greece was one of the major reasons for skepticism in Germany when the Euro supposed to be implemented. In 1999, there were countless reports that Greece was not capable of meeting the criteria and from one day to another one Greece was in the boat. Many didn't understand that but they had no other choice but to accept that since the German government was actively pursing the Euro against the dedicated will of the German people.

In 2004, the first evidence of the Greek cheating became public. It was confirmed that Greece had to "correct" its debt increase from 1,7% to 4,4% in the years 2002 and 2003. The reason for this "unforeseeable" increase was also very interesting. Besides high expenditure in the social sector, the expenses for the military (!) were higher. One might ask why Greece needs equipment for warfare which is barely usable in a landscape Greece is made up. But maybe the only purpose is to roll with that equipment through Saloniki and shout racist sentences. The exceptional German-manufactured weaponry is definitely a nice eyecatcher.

However, the German people is not willing to pay for Greece's cheating. Greece deliberately acted like that and it has to pay for it. Just an ordinary person has to stand for its credit (I can also not ask for a smaller interest when I cannot present the proper collateral) Greece has to find a way to get of this self-created mess. Here in Germany, we have to work up to the age of 67. It is unbelievable that in Greece the (official) retirement age is 60. Start here!

On the other hand, I doubt that the will of the German people will be considered. Chancelor Merkel might pretend that she "thinks" about it, but most believe that this issue is already decided and that Germany will pay, again. However, when it starts here then it will continue. Spain is actually the bigger time bomb. Its economy is several times bigger, so the impact will be much more harsher. I don't see how this mess can end when the German fire brigade will come again. In both cases, Greece and Spain, we deal with a bottomless pit.

Deutschland, erwache! (Germany, wake up!)

The latest news about Greece on Bloomberg:

April 27 (Bloomberg) -- Greece’s credit rating was cut three steps to junk by Standard and Poor’s, the first time that’s happened to a euro member since the currency started, as contagion from the nation’s debt crisis spread through the bloc.

Greece was lowered to BB+ from BBB+ by S&P, which also warned that bondholders could recover as little as 30 percent of their initial investment if the country restructures its debt. The Greek move came minutes after the rating company reduced Portugal by two steps to A- from A+. The euro weakened, stocks plunged and the extra yield that investors demand to hold Greek and Portuguese bonds over German bunds surged.

The turmoil comes as European Union policy makers struggle to agree on measures to ease the panic over swelling budget deficits. Leaders of the 16 euro nations may hold a summit after the Greek government’s decision last week to tap a 45 billion- euro ($60 billion) emergency-aid package failed to reassure investors, a European diplomat said. “The markets are demanding their pound of flesh and want everything to be signed, sealed and delivered as of yesterday,” said David Owen, chief European financial economist at Jefferies International Ltd. in London.

The euro fell 1.2 percent to $1.3226 as of 5:08 p.m. in London. The Stoxx Europe 600 Index slid 3.1 percent to 261.65 points today.

The spread on Greek 10-year bonds over German counterparts widened to 682 basis points, the highest since at least 1998, from 652 basis points yesterday. The Portuguese spread jumped 42 basis points to 260 basis points.

Investors in Greek bonds may get back between 30 percent and 50 percent of the value of their holdings should the government default or restructure its debt, said S&P.

Bye bye Fakelaki Greece. In a year you will be out of EU since you cant afford EMU

Of course she is (pretends to be) cautious. The overwhelming majority of Germany clearly opposes to help the Greek cheaters. In fact, Greece was one of the major reasons for skepticism in Germany when the Euro supposed to be implemented. In 1999, there were countless reports that Greece was not capable of meeting the criteria and from one day to another one Greece was in the boat. Many didn't understand that but they had no other choice but to accept that since the German government was actively pursing the Euro against the dedicated will of the German people.

In 2004, the first evidence of the Greek cheating became public. It was confirmed that Greece had to "correct" its debt increase from 1,7% to 4,4% in the years 2002 and 2003. The reason for this "unforeseeable" increase was also very interesting. Besides high expenditure in the social sector, the expenses for the military (!) were higher. One might ask why Greece needs equipment for warfare which is barely usable in a landscape Greece is made up. But maybe the only purpose is to roll with that equipment through Saloniki and shout racist sentences. The exceptional German-manufactured weaponry is definitely a nice eyecatcher.

However, the German people is not willing to pay for Greece's cheating. Greece deliberately acted like that and it has to pay for it. Just an ordinary person has to stand for its credit (I can also not ask for a smaller interest when I cannot present the proper collateral) Greece has to find a way to get of this self-created mess. Here in Germany, we have to work up to the age of 67. It is unbelievable that in Greece the (official) retirement age is 60. Start here!

On the other hand, I doubt that the will of the German people will be considered. Chancelor Merkel might pretend that she "thinks" about it, but most believe that this issue is already decided and that Germany will pay, again. However, when it starts here then it will continue. Spain is actually the bigger time bomb. Its economy is several times bigger, so the impact will be much more harsher. I don't see how this mess can end when the German fire brigade will come again. In both cases, Greece and Spain, we deal with a bottomless pit.

Deutschland, erwache! (Germany, wake up!)

"This is not a rescue operation. This is a consolidation of Europe's walls; the walls of the euro. It's a rescue for all of us," Frattini said.
--
It certainly is a rescue for "all of us". Greece is just the beginning and Germany will need to dig very deep to save everyone. Deep enough that it could destroy Germany's finances.

"If you did your homework before posting you'll see that under existing EU laws Greece cannot be forced out of the Eurozone. "

Now I know why Greece has problems! Read my post again, YOU will leave EU and through that EMU. You cannot leave EMU but you can leave EU and by that leave EMU at the same time.

How /why?

You are bankrupt.
Huge deficits.
Euro as currency.
Cannot balance budgets (eu will eventually fine you, cut the cohesion funds etc.)
Cannot pay your workers with Euros so you invent IOU, a clear violation of Eurozone, and riots erupt.

Instead of going through that, you will leave on your own. Germans cannot bail everyone, they are in debt for themselves. Even if they provide funds, you must cut salaries by 30%, or no funds so see above ^

John,
your broken highly unreliable german cars or other products (thats what the loans are for) didn't have the slightest impact on the greek way of living.

We can go on with our lives buying Japanese/Korean goods (which are 100% better and more reliable than your german junk).

Now talking about military equipment, and all the rest.

Mr John, you and we have the same BOSS = USA.

USA orders and the submissive nations like yours and ours execute the orders.

its been like that since 1945.

Just like Greeks are too naive sometimes, i also think the very same for Germans as well.

Now I know why Greece has problems! Read my post again, YOU will leave EU and through that EMU. You cannot leave EMU but you can leave EU and by that leave EMU at the same time.

How /why?

You are bankrupt.
Huge deficits.
Euro as currency.
Cannot balance budgets (eu will eventually fine you, cut the cohesion funds etc.)
Cannot pay your workers with Euros so you invent IOU, a clear violation of Eurozone, and riots erupt.

Instead of going through that, you will leave on your own. Germans cannot bail everyone, they are in debt for themselves. Even if they provide funds, you must cut salaries by 30%, or no funds so see above ^
(Gjergj, 27 April 2010 13:51)


... and Greece would become even more poorer. The only reason Greece had a half decent economy in the first place is because after WW2, the West gave it loads of money to stop it going communist. If Greece wants to leave the EU, then let it. It'll stop Greece from being so reliant. I think for humanitarian reasons Greece should be in the EU, I don't want to see the Greeks living in a third world country. Greece needs to stop being so stubborn.

Bye bye Fakelaki Greece. In a year you will be out of EU since you cant afford EMU
(Gjergj, 27 April 2010 10:46

The usual Albanian nonsense you read on this forum.

If you did your homework before posting you'll see that under existing EU laws Greece cannot be forced out of the Eurozone.

In fact if the Bundestag blocks the loans to Greece then it will be better for Greece to default within the eurozone which will put several German and French banks at risk.

If Greece defaults then the crisis will spread to Portugal and beyond.Portugal's externaal debt to GDP ratio will reach a staggering 95% for the state plus 159% for the private sector.Portugal together with Greece and Spain lost 25% of their competitiveness within the last year as a member of the Eurozone.

This is Europe's subprime crisis and it will blow up.

The latest news about Greece on Bloomberg:

April 27 (Bloomberg) -- Greece’s credit rating was cut three steps to junk by Standard and Poor’s, the first time that’s happened to a euro member since the currency started, as contagion from the nation’s debt crisis spread through the bloc.

Greece was lowered to BB+ from BBB+ by S&P, which also warned that bondholders could recover as little as 30 percent of their initial investment if the country restructures its debt. The Greek move came minutes after the rating company reduced Portugal by two steps to A- from A+. The euro weakened, stocks plunged and the extra yield that investors demand to hold Greek and Portuguese bonds over German bunds surged.

The turmoil comes as European Union policy makers struggle to agree on measures to ease the panic over swelling budget deficits. Leaders of the 16 euro nations may hold a summit after the Greek government’s decision last week to tap a 45 billion- euro ($60 billion) emergency-aid package failed to reassure investors, a European diplomat said. “The markets are demanding their pound of flesh and want everything to be signed, sealed and delivered as of yesterday,” said David Owen, chief European financial economist at Jefferies International Ltd. in London.

The euro fell 1.2 percent to $1.3226 as of 5:08 p.m. in London. The Stoxx Europe 600 Index slid 3.1 percent to 261.65 points today.

The spread on Greek 10-year bonds over German counterparts widened to 682 basis points, the highest since at least 1998, from 652 basis points yesterday. The Portuguese spread jumped 42 basis points to 260 basis points.

Investors in Greek bonds may get back between 30 percent and 50 percent of the value of their holdings should the government default or restructure its debt, said S&P.

Instead of going through that, you will leave on your own. Germans cannot bail everyone, they are in debt for themselves. Even if they provide funds, you must cut salaries by 30%, or no funds so see above ^
(Gjergj, 27 April 2010 13:51

If the present Greek goverment had any sense they should've abandon the so-called rescue attempts and default.Greece will be better off without the rigidity and constraints of the euro.

The new austerity plans the Germans demand will certainly lead the country to severe depression which will lead to more social unrest.

But looking at the overall picture of indeptedness in Europe you realise that Greece is not the exception but the general rule.

The regulating bodies of capitalism IMF,ECB and world bank demand the reduction of living standards in every country which will lead the european populations to poverty.

My feeling has always been that capitalism and EU are kaput.They've swallowed the last drops of credit in a collapsing market.It's about time the European people start taking care of their fortunes and look at expropriating all the Mantoffs of this world.