Incidents during attempted Kurti arrest

...no lawyer in Kosovo accepted to defend Kurti due to the pressure from the public...


I see Kosovo is becoming more democratic every day. You can not change people who don't want to be changed.

Top

No, Peter can't provide likns to his claim because they never happend. Like 99 percent of the time it is just made up stories by albanian commentators without any truth. So was the war in 1999. It was all a lie and far from the truth. However, the world fell for these lies and apparently continue to do so.

The young Europeans way of law and order...

Resisting an arrest by the police and even injuring a police member is a serious act, at least in normal countries.

I think it is wrong to present vetevendosje as an ethnic organisation, it is against EULEX and UNMIK, not against Serbs.
(Claire, 27 April 2010 13:22)

Not true, Claire. Kurti is a most vocal opponent of Serbs. He is always crying about the north and pathetically tried to ban Serbs that were born in Kosovo from being here. The man is no moderate, not by a long shot.

This article is a blatant misrepresentation of the facts from yesterday's police intervention. The police used violence and tear gas against a crowd of unarmed people, all of which were attending a funeral and were simply standing in the way of the police arresting Kurti. Several members of the public were beaten and injured by police.
As for the 2007 demonstration, you should stop indicating that Vetëvendosje caused the deaths that day: even the UN itself has established that it was UNMIK police that killed 2 and injured more than 80 unarmed people, and that the crowd did not represent a threat when attacked by the police.

Peter: Thanks, that really sounds a bit different. Can you supply us with some links?

But one fact still remains: KPS tried to arrest Kurti, and some other people (his supporters) wanted to prevent him from being arrested by "standing in the way", as you describe it. In my opinion, this still counts as obstructing the work of the police, and can be punished. What other method do you suggest but tear gas to oppose a (big) crowd who's trying to stop the police doing theit job? If Kurti is innocent, he should prove that in front of the court, and stop this ridiculous soap opera "I don't accept the courts and laws"...

Part of the police action was filmed here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC3IOSSHyJw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFrsUHP5qoc&feature=related

It is not "due to the pressure from the public" that lawyers refuse to defend Kurti - it is because they understand that the case is politically motivated by EULEX who wants to strangle Kurti and vetevendosje, because more and more people support the organisation.

I think it is wrong to present vetevendosje as an ethnic organisation, it is against EULEX and UNMIK, not against Serbs.

Wow - well posted link Claire. But the police looked as though they were fairly professional I have to say, other than the use of tear gas at such close proximity which seemed over the top (and painful).

This all boils down to the legal status of the province. Until Kosovo has a solid legal status, and at the moment it does not because it is an international protectorate, here can be no control over the legal system and everything comes under Resolution 1244.

EULEX is there as a bridge between the Pristina government and the UN running the province, which still legally remains under Serbian sovereignty. It's a mess - a fudged solution which was supposed to please everyone (except the Serbs) but has pleased noone.

Nothing will change until there are further status talks and a proper longterm solution is found.

In fact this video demonstrates how the people of Kosovo will quickly turn on the authorities for trying to do their work, and while I sympathise for all the people caught up in this, what were the police supposed to do?

This to me sounds like the seed that could destroy the unity of ethnic Albanians. Now that their enemy (Serbians) are mostly removed they start to turn on themselves. Even if they arrest Kurti, I expect his supporters to resist even more. These type of incidents only inflame the situation.

Anyway, one thing I have in common with Kurti is our desire to remove EULEX. This guy has potential if not for his strong nationalism.

John, you are really stretching it, dude. Kostic was an individual, a nutcase with his own agenda. Kurti has a long history of civil disobedience in Kosovo. He has been accused of crimes, and has been summoned by the courts. In trying to apprehend him, police officers were injured by his supporters, thus severely breaking the law. I don't see the correlation. Are you just attempting to make Serbia look bad, because of the lawlessness in Pristina?

And resisting police only happens in Kosovo, right?

Just read here what happened only 2 weeks ago in Belgrade.
What do you say?
(John, 27 April 2010 11:43)

Sure, that's nothing specific for Kosovo. There are criminals and people who act against the laws everywhere, and in Serbia, there are mafia-like structures, too.

Usually a professional police force manages to arrest resisting persons. Here, it sounds like Kurti is still on the run, or let's better say, moving around freely, protected by his "supporters".

Arrest this guy and bring him to UNMIK justice!

Let me stress this: *UNMIK* justice!

This article is a blatant misrepresentation of the facts from yesterday's police intervention. The police used violence and tear gas against a crowd of unarmed people, all of which were attending a funeral and were simply standing in the way of the police arresting Kurti. Several members of the public were beaten and injured by police.
As for the 2007 demonstration, you should stop indicating that Vetëvendosje caused the deaths that day: even the UN itself has established that it was UNMIK police that killed 2 and injured more than 80 unarmed people, and that the crowd did not represent a threat when attacked by the police.
(Peter, 27 April 2010, 10:26)

Peter, No offence but you do not seem to understand police work. The crowd was not "tear gassed" as you say. Individual officers used pepper spray upon resisting offenders. Under the use of force continuum this is a step take before striking techniques.

I must say that the KPS used too much restraint here, as they were constantly being tested, threatened, and the crowd disobeyed commands to back off or disperse. Had this taken place in the UK or Germany, many more would have been arrested and jailed for refusing to disperse.

I feel bad for the cops, but I wish the person that ordered him arrested at a funeral was hurt--badly.

Thanks Claire for the links. This could actually be a scene from any European city - not! The EU is experiencing the headache they deserve - slowly it is becoming a migrane, and eventually their heads will explode. Obviously the EU had no idea who they were getting involved with. Enjoy.

So it`s funeral procession and not "kids" this time.
They are so predictable..
LOL-funny..

Yes, thanks Claire for the video links. I don't understand Albanian, so I might be wrong, but sorry, only from the video it doesn't look to me like "peaceful protesting". The police is trying to arrest someone, and an angry mob, outnumbering the police by far, is trying to prevent that by attacking police officers doing their job.

Paulo - Yes, you're right, I meant to say pepper spray instead of tear gas. Both very painful though and not to be used if it can be avoided.

(Peter, 27 April 2010 10:26)

Peter, of course the Vetevend were unarmed. Otherwise they would be shot down. And the police follows orders from the court. You and Kosovo will for ever be in misery. I am sorry, but thats it.

In albanian tradition,burrials are sanctuarised,and even your ennemy comes without being agressed!Seems that this moral code is not one of Eulex ethical code!
(lili, 28 April 2010 12:19)

Lili- Do you really think that Kosovo Albanians have any authority to discuss behaviour at funerals or graveyards in light of what you have done to CHristian cemetaries in Kosovo and Metohia?

i am also very unhappy w/what i am seeing (thanks for the links). all of this, pepper-spraying, whatever, is really necessary? from -- or at -- a funeral? poor call, guys. i don't believe that kurti is guilty, but if he must be arrested and tried it does not need to be done thru terror, thank you very much. was that pepper spray really needed?? no, but perhaps some police sensitivity training is.

thanks.

roberto frisco
(roberto, 28 April 2010 06:18)

Spoken like a true liberal. People like Roberto cry about police tactics yet are the first ones to beg for help when they need it - only to complain about how they were helped afterwards.

These police used much restraint here. I see in the video where people are jumping on the officers and attempting to prevent arrests. This is clearly grounds for the use of OC (pepper spray to you non LEOs out there). This would be permitted in the US all day long and there was no excessive force on the part of the KPS.

But I would not expect someone like Roberto to understand anything about law enforcement...

Resisting an arrest by the police and even injuring a police member is a serious act, at least in normal countries.
(Top, 27 April 2010 10:19)

And resisting police only happens in Kosovo, right?

Just read here what happened only 2 weeks ago in Belgrade.

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/crimes-article.php?yyyy=2010&mm=04&dd=10&nav_id=66384

What do you say?

"It is not "due to the pressure from the public" that lawyers refuse to defend Kurti - it is because they understand that the case is politically motivated by EULEX who wants to strangle Kurti and vetevendosje, because more and more people support the organisation."

Yes, just like the ICTY is a political motivated court, only against Serbs, right? At least the "supporters" of Karadzic and Milosevic argue that way - and there has been a time when more and more people supported these persons and their ideas.

So: Does a bell ring somewhere now?

If Kurti cannot find a lawyer to defend him maybe he can ask Karadzic how he can defend himself. Kurti's nationalism is at least as destructive as Karadzic's so they may well find they are soul mates. Only Karadzic shows more respect for the rule of law.

I don't understand it: How can people complain about "excessive force" used by the police when the goal of this operation wasn't even fulfilled and the person to be arrested is still free?

These police used much restraint here. I see in the video where people are jumping on the officers and attempting to prevent arrests. This is clearly grounds for the use of OC (pepper spray to you non LEOs out there). This would be permitted in the US all day long and there was no excessive force on the part of the KPS.

But I would not expect someone like Roberto to understand anything about law enforcement...
(Jason, 28 April 2010 10:31)
=======================

Jason, the interesting thing is that if this was at a Serbian funeral Roberto would not be complaining about excessive force but about not enough force because the fugitive got away.
He would be saying that Serbian police were not serious enough about getting him and so he got away.
We all know how biased Roberto is. Funny thing is he doesn't realize it.

There is no pression on lawyersfrom albin/he refuses to be defended by a lawyer,and the true pression is exercices by eulex on lawyers to deal with a client who refuses their help,as it is his right:you can not be imposed a lawyer.
Albin refuses eulex juridictions and he is consequent with himself by so doing:eulex has a double standard as far as manifestation are concerned:albanians ones are repressed,and serbian ones are tolerated even when they kill jurist or policemen!Albin denonces all this,and he is the one who tell the truth,like it or not.We are each day more and more to support him,and i do support him in every action he did up to now.

In albanian tradition,burrials are sanctuarised,and even your ennemy comes without being agressed!Seems that this moral code is not one of Eulex ethical code!
(lili, 28 April 2010 12:19)
=======================

Sure Lili, everyone should respect your dead while you guys go on destroying other people's graves.
Please don't preach moral code while this is happening.

Perhaps he should've had the respect and stay away from a funeral if this is what is expected in your society. He must've known they will try to arrest him where ever they find him. He shouldn't hide behind a coffin.
Now who's not respecting your dead?

"Peter: Thanks, that really sounds a bit different. Can you supply us with some links? "
(Top, 27 April 2010 11:15)

Here:

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2007&mm=02&dd=14&nav_id=39622

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2007&mm=02&dd=12&nav_id=39577

"EULEX is there as a bridge between the Pristina government and the UN running the province, which still legally remains under Serbian sovereignty. It's a mess - a fudged solution which was supposed to please everyone (except the Serbs) but has pleased noone."

You should really really read the mission statements of EULEX itself. You seem to have no idea. No mention of bridges, just talk about the "rule of law". For everybody, serb and albanian. I'm not against bridges, they are welcome, but really, go read the mission statements.

# This article is a blatant misrepresentation of the facts from yesterday's police intervention. The police used violence and tear gas against a crowd of unarmed people, all of which were attending a funeral and were simply standing in the way of the police arresting Kurti. Several members of the public were beaten and injured by police.
As for the 2007 demonstration, you should stop indicating that Vetëvendosje caused the deaths that day: even the UN itself has established that it was UNMIK police that killed 2 and injured more than 80 unarmed people, and that the crowd did not represent a threat when attacked by the police.
(Peter, 27 April 2010 10:26)

i am also very unhappy w/what i am seeing (thanks for the links). all of this, pepper-spraying, whatever, is really necessary? from -- or at -- a funeral? poor call, guys. i don't believe that kurti is guilty, but if he must be arrested and tried it does not need to be done thru terror, thank you very much. was that pepper spray really needed?? no, but perhaps some police sensitivity training is.

thanks.

roberto frisco

the best comment for all this was the one made by ali aliu's son.
This is a pure provocation from eulex! Seems they look to provoke riots...
The kosovo ministry says he has not ordered thisaction.So it is eulex§
In albanian tradition,burrials are sanctuarised,and even your ennemy comes without being agressed!Seems that this moral code is not one of Eulex ethical code!

The young Europeans way of law and order...

Resisting an arrest by the police and even injuring a police member is a serious act, at least in normal countries.

...no lawyer in Kosovo accepted to defend Kurti due to the pressure from the public...


I see Kosovo is becoming more democratic every day. You can not change people who don't want to be changed.

Arrest this guy and bring him to UNMIK justice!

Let me stress this: *UNMIK* justice!

Resisting an arrest by the police and even injuring a police member is a serious act, at least in normal countries.
(Top, 27 April 2010 10:19)

And resisting police only happens in Kosovo, right?

Just read here what happened only 2 weeks ago in Belgrade.

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/crimes-article.php?yyyy=2010&mm=04&dd=10&nav_id=66384

What do you say?

Top

No, Peter can't provide likns to his claim because they never happend. Like 99 percent of the time it is just made up stories by albanian commentators without any truth. So was the war in 1999. It was all a lie and far from the truth. However, the world fell for these lies and apparently continue to do so.

There is no pression on lawyersfrom albin/he refuses to be defended by a lawyer,and the true pression is exercices by eulex on lawyers to deal with a client who refuses their help,as it is his right:you can not be imposed a lawyer.
Albin refuses eulex juridictions and he is consequent with himself by so doing:eulex has a double standard as far as manifestation are concerned:albanians ones are repressed,and serbian ones are tolerated even when they kill jurist or policemen!Albin denonces all this,and he is the one who tell the truth,like it or not.We are each day more and more to support him,and i do support him in every action he did up to now.

This article is a blatant misrepresentation of the facts from yesterday's police intervention. The police used violence and tear gas against a crowd of unarmed people, all of which were attending a funeral and were simply standing in the way of the police arresting Kurti. Several members of the public were beaten and injured by police.
As for the 2007 demonstration, you should stop indicating that Vetëvendosje caused the deaths that day: even the UN itself has established that it was UNMIK police that killed 2 and injured more than 80 unarmed people, and that the crowd did not represent a threat when attacked by the police.

This to me sounds like the seed that could destroy the unity of ethnic Albanians. Now that their enemy (Serbians) are mostly removed they start to turn on themselves. Even if they arrest Kurti, I expect his supporters to resist even more. These type of incidents only inflame the situation.

Anyway, one thing I have in common with Kurti is our desire to remove EULEX. This guy has potential if not for his strong nationalism.

Part of the police action was filmed here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC3IOSSHyJw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFrsUHP5qoc&feature=related

It is not "due to the pressure from the public" that lawyers refuse to defend Kurti - it is because they understand that the case is politically motivated by EULEX who wants to strangle Kurti and vetevendosje, because more and more people support the organisation.

I think it is wrong to present vetevendosje as an ethnic organisation, it is against EULEX and UNMIK, not against Serbs.

I feel bad for the cops, but I wish the person that ordered him arrested at a funeral was hurt--badly.

Wow - well posted link Claire. But the police looked as though they were fairly professional I have to say, other than the use of tear gas at such close proximity which seemed over the top (and painful).

This all boils down to the legal status of the province. Until Kosovo has a solid legal status, and at the moment it does not because it is an international protectorate, here can be no control over the legal system and everything comes under Resolution 1244.

EULEX is there as a bridge between the Pristina government and the UN running the province, which still legally remains under Serbian sovereignty. It's a mess - a fudged solution which was supposed to please everyone (except the Serbs) but has pleased noone.

Nothing will change until there are further status talks and a proper longterm solution is found.

In fact this video demonstrates how the people of Kosovo will quickly turn on the authorities for trying to do their work, and while I sympathise for all the people caught up in this, what were the police supposed to do?

I think it is wrong to present vetevendosje as an ethnic organisation, it is against EULEX and UNMIK, not against Serbs.
(Claire, 27 April 2010 13:22)

Not true, Claire. Kurti is a most vocal opponent of Serbs. He is always crying about the north and pathetically tried to ban Serbs that were born in Kosovo from being here. The man is no moderate, not by a long shot.

# This article is a blatant misrepresentation of the facts from yesterday's police intervention. The police used violence and tear gas against a crowd of unarmed people, all of which were attending a funeral and were simply standing in the way of the police arresting Kurti. Several members of the public were beaten and injured by police.
As for the 2007 demonstration, you should stop indicating that Vetëvendosje caused the deaths that day: even the UN itself has established that it was UNMIK police that killed 2 and injured more than 80 unarmed people, and that the crowd did not represent a threat when attacked by the police.
(Peter, 27 April 2010 10:26)

i am also very unhappy w/what i am seeing (thanks for the links). all of this, pepper-spraying, whatever, is really necessary? from -- or at -- a funeral? poor call, guys. i don't believe that kurti is guilty, but if he must be arrested and tried it does not need to be done thru terror, thank you very much. was that pepper spray really needed?? no, but perhaps some police sensitivity training is.

thanks.

roberto frisco

(Peter, 27 April 2010 10:26)

Peter, of course the Vetevend were unarmed. Otherwise they would be shot down. And the police follows orders from the court. You and Kosovo will for ever be in misery. I am sorry, but thats it.

the best comment for all this was the one made by ali aliu's son.
This is a pure provocation from eulex! Seems they look to provoke riots...
The kosovo ministry says he has not ordered thisaction.So it is eulex§
In albanian tradition,burrials are sanctuarised,and even your ennemy comes without being agressed!Seems that this moral code is not one of Eulex ethical code!

Peter: Thanks, that really sounds a bit different. Can you supply us with some links?

But one fact still remains: KPS tried to arrest Kurti, and some other people (his supporters) wanted to prevent him from being arrested by "standing in the way", as you describe it. In my opinion, this still counts as obstructing the work of the police, and can be punished. What other method do you suggest but tear gas to oppose a (big) crowd who's trying to stop the police doing theit job? If Kurti is innocent, he should prove that in front of the court, and stop this ridiculous soap opera "I don't accept the courts and laws"...

"It is not "due to the pressure from the public" that lawyers refuse to defend Kurti - it is because they understand that the case is politically motivated by EULEX who wants to strangle Kurti and vetevendosje, because more and more people support the organisation."

Yes, just like the ICTY is a political motivated court, only against Serbs, right? At least the "supporters" of Karadzic and Milosevic argue that way - and there has been a time when more and more people supported these persons and their ideas.

So: Does a bell ring somewhere now?

Paulo - Yes, you're right, I meant to say pepper spray instead of tear gas. Both very painful though and not to be used if it can be avoided.

i am also very unhappy w/what i am seeing (thanks for the links). all of this, pepper-spraying, whatever, is really necessary? from -- or at -- a funeral? poor call, guys. i don't believe that kurti is guilty, but if he must be arrested and tried it does not need to be done thru terror, thank you very much. was that pepper spray really needed?? no, but perhaps some police sensitivity training is.

thanks.

roberto frisco
(roberto, 28 April 2010 06:18)

Spoken like a true liberal. People like Roberto cry about police tactics yet are the first ones to beg for help when they need it - only to complain about how they were helped afterwards.

These police used much restraint here. I see in the video where people are jumping on the officers and attempting to prevent arrests. This is clearly grounds for the use of OC (pepper spray to you non LEOs out there). This would be permitted in the US all day long and there was no excessive force on the part of the KPS.

But I would not expect someone like Roberto to understand anything about law enforcement...

If Kurti cannot find a lawyer to defend him maybe he can ask Karadzic how he can defend himself. Kurti's nationalism is at least as destructive as Karadzic's so they may well find they are soul mates. Only Karadzic shows more respect for the rule of law.

In albanian tradition,burrials are sanctuarised,and even your ennemy comes without being agressed!Seems that this moral code is not one of Eulex ethical code!
(lili, 28 April 2010 12:19)

Lili- Do you really think that Kosovo Albanians have any authority to discuss behaviour at funerals or graveyards in light of what you have done to CHristian cemetaries in Kosovo and Metohia?

John, you are really stretching it, dude. Kostic was an individual, a nutcase with his own agenda. Kurti has a long history of civil disobedience in Kosovo. He has been accused of crimes, and has been summoned by the courts. In trying to apprehend him, police officers were injured by his supporters, thus severely breaking the law. I don't see the correlation. Are you just attempting to make Serbia look bad, because of the lawlessness in Pristina?

Yes, thanks Claire for the video links. I don't understand Albanian, so I might be wrong, but sorry, only from the video it doesn't look to me like "peaceful protesting". The police is trying to arrest someone, and an angry mob, outnumbering the police by far, is trying to prevent that by attacking police officers doing their job.

This article is a blatant misrepresentation of the facts from yesterday's police intervention. The police used violence and tear gas against a crowd of unarmed people, all of which were attending a funeral and were simply standing in the way of the police arresting Kurti. Several members of the public were beaten and injured by police.
As for the 2007 demonstration, you should stop indicating that Vetëvendosje caused the deaths that day: even the UN itself has established that it was UNMIK police that killed 2 and injured more than 80 unarmed people, and that the crowd did not represent a threat when attacked by the police.
(Peter, 27 April 2010, 10:26)

Peter, No offence but you do not seem to understand police work. The crowd was not "tear gassed" as you say. Individual officers used pepper spray upon resisting offenders. Under the use of force continuum this is a step take before striking techniques.

I must say that the KPS used too much restraint here, as they were constantly being tested, threatened, and the crowd disobeyed commands to back off or disperse. Had this taken place in the UK or Germany, many more would have been arrested and jailed for refusing to disperse.

So it`s funeral procession and not "kids" this time.
They are so predictable..
LOL-funny..

"Peter: Thanks, that really sounds a bit different. Can you supply us with some links? "
(Top, 27 April 2010 11:15)

Here:

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2007&mm=02&dd=14&nav_id=39622

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2007&mm=02&dd=12&nav_id=39577

"EULEX is there as a bridge between the Pristina government and the UN running the province, which still legally remains under Serbian sovereignty. It's a mess - a fudged solution which was supposed to please everyone (except the Serbs) but has pleased noone."

You should really really read the mission statements of EULEX itself. You seem to have no idea. No mention of bridges, just talk about the "rule of law". For everybody, serb and albanian. I'm not against bridges, they are welcome, but really, go read the mission statements.

Thanks Claire for the links. This could actually be a scene from any European city - not! The EU is experiencing the headache they deserve - slowly it is becoming a migrane, and eventually their heads will explode. Obviously the EU had no idea who they were getting involved with. Enjoy.

In albanian tradition,burrials are sanctuarised,and even your ennemy comes without being agressed!Seems that this moral code is not one of Eulex ethical code!
(lili, 28 April 2010 12:19)
=======================

Sure Lili, everyone should respect your dead while you guys go on destroying other people's graves.
Please don't preach moral code while this is happening.

Perhaps he should've had the respect and stay away from a funeral if this is what is expected in your society. He must've known they will try to arrest him where ever they find him. He shouldn't hide behind a coffin.
Now who's not respecting your dead?

And resisting police only happens in Kosovo, right?

Just read here what happened only 2 weeks ago in Belgrade.
What do you say?
(John, 27 April 2010 11:43)

Sure, that's nothing specific for Kosovo. There are criminals and people who act against the laws everywhere, and in Serbia, there are mafia-like structures, too.

Usually a professional police force manages to arrest resisting persons. Here, it sounds like Kurti is still on the run, or let's better say, moving around freely, protected by his "supporters".

I don't understand it: How can people complain about "excessive force" used by the police when the goal of this operation wasn't even fulfilled and the person to be arrested is still free?

These police used much restraint here. I see in the video where people are jumping on the officers and attempting to prevent arrests. This is clearly grounds for the use of OC (pepper spray to you non LEOs out there). This would be permitted in the US all day long and there was no excessive force on the part of the KPS.

But I would not expect someone like Roberto to understand anything about law enforcement...
(Jason, 28 April 2010 10:31)
=======================

Jason, the interesting thing is that if this was at a Serbian funeral Roberto would not be complaining about excessive force but about not enough force because the fugitive got away.
He would be saying that Serbian police were not serious enough about getting him and so he got away.
We all know how biased Roberto is. Funny thing is he doesn't realize it.