Italy's FM "worried" by German resistance on Greece

These arguments sound similar to those before the breakup of Yugoslavia. Arguments such as Slovenia being unhappy to waste funds on that black hole Kosovo.

Greece is not the only country in a mess. We also have Italy, Ireland, Portugal and Spain within the Eurozone plus many others out of it. Germany's desire to control Europe looks to be backfiring and could potentially destroy it again - not militarily but economically this time. The European Union is heading in the same direction as the Soviet Union. Greed and incompetence can only be sustained for a short period.

GERMANY!!!!
For the sake of your exports (BMWs/Porche/Audi/Mercedes)
pls give Greece some more 50B euros...
You know your sales will boost after that.
And we, Greeks, will have all the time (till the next war (where debts are usually reset)) to claim we are the supergreeks, the superhumans of the balkans, the ONLY TRUE descendants of Alexander the Great, the land of philosophers, mathematicians, democracy, , etc...
It is just in the last 2000 years, we rather "use" (what others produce) rather than produce ourselves.

Why "worried"? Why should the hard working German pay for Greek cheaters? It was Greece which burned money, not the other way round, and of course some German parties, most notably the Bavarian CSU, but large parts of the CDU and FDP doesn't want to pay for that. How should they explain the German people that there is no money for the own people but forthose liars and cheaters in South-East Europe? If it would have a direct democracy in Germany and the German people would chooce, Greece would already start printing its Drachma. Then they can cheat and lie as much as they like.

I am surprised by such hate and poisonous propaganda comments of Albanians and Fyromians who use Greek or even English nicknames.

Greek people never cheated, average Greek people work much more than 8 hours - doing two jobs (making them much more hard-working than Germans for instance) and more importantly... the Greek government never used a different practise than Italy or France in calculating its dept. It only used the very same old tactics that most European governments use for the last 10 years to logistically reduce its dept - in order to theoretically fulfil the eurozone criteria that "export-based" German economy has set.

The only reason that Greece is in such situation today is that it has been targeted by the speculator funds - making the Greek goverment unable to borrow at normal rates in order to refinance it's dept. That's why this "rescue package" which is nothing more than borrowing at normal (or even high) rates, was created for Greece or any other EU country in the future. In order to let a country borrow at normal rates, when it cannot borrow from the markets that are directly controlled by specific "financial centers"... Greece is today, tommorrow can be Portugal or Spain.

Greece will not get bankrupt, Greece will survive the current crisis and the people who show such envy and hate for Greece (like our Albanian or Fyromian "neighbours") will just keep envyning a much better country and a much better people than their own - even for the next 50 years.

PS: Germany which has based its economic growth on the huge money they got after ww2 (like no other county wordwide), and on the "feeding" of that industry (built with that money) by the other EU countries for the next 60 years(like Greece) will have to pay eventually what it owns to most EU countries. The war compensations that has never paid, and if they would do so they would be worst even than Latvia today. Only for Greece, the amount is 70 billion US dollars set by international court decisions that Germany denies to comply with, since 1952....

Zoran,
the funny part is that both Slovenia/Croatia were traditional agricultural countries till 1950, when the fast industrialization started in those republics.
Serbia had heavy industry since 19th century, yet it was Cro/Slo who albeit benefited from Yugoslavia, were the first to want out!

Also, i dont think that Kosovo would be a black hole if proper Slavic people lived there.

(a little off topic, but i thought it is interesting)

What do you have to say on that?
(Pyrros, 26 April 2010 11:42)

I never implied that every country should produce the basic goods or setting up its own industry, making it independent from other countries. In a globalized world, this is impossible. Everybody should work on that what is capable of doing. If you sell cars, fine, if you sell bottle of whines, fine as well. You make money with products another wants. That is the basic concept of economy. However, we are not talking about economy per se, but about a monitary union which can only work if everybody plays according the rules. The strength of this currencies is based on the strength of its weakest link. It also means that we play with open cards. Greece clearly did not play according these rules and openly lied about its financial status, confirming the fears most Germans, including me, had in the first place. The fact that Greek extremists lash out with Anti-German resintments confirms that, as well. A caught thief will try to divert his guilt to other circumstances, trying to persuade that he had to steal. The fact, however, is that Greece was barely able to meet the criterias which are essential for a monitary union. Of course, it is not possible to compare the German and Greek economy, but then it is necessary to ask why Greece wanted to join the EU when it is not capable to keep up the German paces. The answer is easy. They wanted to enjoy the priveleges to have a stable and worldwide powerful currency without bringing in its own contribution. That is by definition cheating/stealing, no matter which accounting tricks you are going to use. The laughable part is that the Greeks now complain about the very people which helped them to enter the EU-zone. But when you dance with the devil then it is your fault when you get burned. I don't see a single reason why anybody in Europe should pay for this Greek mess. Greece can be thankful for the fact that we don't have a direct democracy in Germany. Our "appeasement" politicians and their check-book diplomacy will make sure that Greece will not sink in the Aegan sea, just as they did since the last decades. Without those payments even Bulgaria would twice as far developed as Greece is today.

However, there is still a slight chance that Greece will be kicked out (diplomatically: asked to leave) the Euro Zone. The CSU, the strongest Bavarian party, pushes to it and there are plenty of supporters in many other parties which agrees with it.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen aus Stuttgart
Thomas

PS: @ The Greek, your resintments towards Germans or other people doesn't impress me not a bit. Get a job, a start working honestly for your country. And stop blaming others for your mess. That will make this situation only worse.

Thomas,
are you naively implying that the world should go to a new model of horizontal production where every country should produce whatever it needs?
Because, of course, Greece and other countries will always remain dependent on EU funds, since we cannot produce anything "big" by ourselves.

If that is what you are implying, well, then the YUGOSLAV paradigm, will ALWAYS be there, to remind you that those same centers which are now denying loans, WERE THE SAME CENTERS WHICH DESTROYED PRODUCTION in the balkan region.

What do you have to say on that?

Why "worried"? Why should the hard working German pay for Greek cheaters? It was Greece which burned money, not the other way round, and of course some German parties, most notably the Bavarian CSU, but large parts of the CDU and FDP doesn't want to pay for that. How should they explain the German people that there is no money for the own people but forthose liars and cheaters in South-East Europe? If it would have a direct democracy in Germany and the German people would chooce, Greece would already start printing its Drachma. Then they can cheat and lie as much as they like.
(Thomas, 26 April 2010 10:53

People like yourself use the quasi-racist stereotype to describe Greeks as corrupt and lazy( all countries have corupt and lazy people) but it is quite offensive to generalise by implying all Greeks are corrupt.

You conveniently ommit the fact that it's German companies that are subject to biggest corruption scandals both in Germany and abroad (Siemens and Daimler).
daimler alone was fined $400 million in US alone.

Youe assertion that hard working Germans pay for the cheating Greeks are just populist nonsense.Germany won't be taxing anybody in order to provide loans.It will just borrow money by issuing bonds at 3% which will then give to Greece at 5%.Therefore, it will be the Greek taxpayers who will be paying 2% bonus to Germany's coffers and not the other way
round.

The fact of the matter is that EU is spineless and all about bending the rules and this is one of the reasons why is in a mess in the first place.

The EU growth and stability pact prohibits any country to exceed budget deficit of 3% and state deficit of 60% of GDP.Looking at Germany's state deficit in 2009 it was 79.6% of GDP and this year is leading towards 85%.Bending the rules?

If you broaden your horizons you'll see an emerging pattern here.We have the ugly spectacle of existing EU
member states (Latvia,Hungary
Romania,Lithuania) and now eurozone states (Greece and Portugal,Spain teetering to the edge)all being propped up by the IMF.

I am afraid the EU, as we know it, is coming towards the end of its life cycle.I just hope the ugliness of the collapse will be constrained with peacefull means.

It is unfair for Germany to be expected to bail out the poorer EU states such as Greece, when their economy messes up. Greece should get a loan from the IMF.

Also look what Iceland did, they have refused to pay back Britain and the Netherlands for the loan which was given to them. How do we know that stubborn Greece isn't going to do the same thing?

Leonidas,
apart from meaningless numbers, just a question.
Did you ever traveled to ex-YU?
(i assume so).

As, a Greek, did you ever get yourself skeptic about the fact that there is not a single thing that Greece is doing better than ex-YU (except banking of course, which is in the sphere of virtual reality)?
Accompanied by the fact that the average salary in Greece is at least 2 times the ones in ex-YU?

As A TRUE GREEK (and it seems i am the only one in here), i was DEEPLY concerned by the vast GAP in professional mentality, even between Greece and ex-YU (not to talk about western europe).

I dont know about you guys and your utopias, made by little insignificant digits on paper, but i am deeply concerned about the future of this country.

WE BETTER START WORKING in the right directions (developing a serious professional culture for a start) before we dive even lower accusing left and right.
(Pyrros, 26 April 2010 16:33


My experience from the old Yugoslavia was back in the the middle 1980s when driving through i was stopped by the guys with the boots and on motorbikes and forcing me to pay a fine for a non-existent driving offence.

But i don't understand the point you're trying to make here.You're trying to compare
Old Yugoslavia with Greece.

Each country is trading on its strengths.Greece has a huge shipping sector which together with tourism account for half of Greece's GDP.

Yugoslavia,on the other hand,had a better industry and agricultural sector.

I have never maintained that the situation in Greece is rosy.The country is in a deep hole and it will take few years to get out and provided the reforms take place and mentality at both at cultural and psychological level changes.

If Greeks still aspire to become unproductive labour(public servants)instead of developing other skills and still insist with rampant tax evasion then the country will not recover.

I would rather not comment on your self-promotion as being the only true Greek on this forum.

Also, i dont think that Kosovo would be a black hole if proper Slavic people lived there."

So tell us about the smart Greeks? Why is it STILL a black hole, even after $450 Billion in debt and $300 Billion in free EU gifts?

If its called the European community I expect all member states to support Greece. One for all and all for one. If rich EU countries don't want to help poor then I guess there is no chance in hell that Albania and Moldova can join. Those countries need to be built from the beginning.

Thomas,
you have a point, you see the tree, but you miss the Great euroatlantic Forest, in which we both (Greece, Germany) are parts of, and believe me, neither Greece, nor Germany leads this big Euroatlantic union. It is USA and UK which pretty much rule the western hemisphere.

Where would Germany (or S.Korea or Japan or China or India) be without the creation and provision and most importantly the protection of the commercial channels in which the industrial countries can move their products?

So, you have to jump a little out of "German" world and see the whole post 1945, post 1991 situation.

And of course, we have to jump out of our Greek world and opening our eyes.

Thomas, i am not even 000.1% skeptical about EU/Germany *knowing* exactly the real (low) potential of the Greek economy in 1991.
There is no chance on earth that *any* EU beurocract/technocrat would be so silly.
We were acting, Thomas, according to orders. Just like you the Germans did and everyone was happy, until, somebody wasn't.

The words of Frattini must be put in contest ...actually the "real" battle that is going on is about the future of Euro-zone ..the German vision differs to the French-italian one SO The Greek case is a proxy for the future..

PS
True greek is the clever one.
(Pyrros, 26 April 2010 18:47)

It's always been my policy not to engage in personal attacks with other posters and i intend to keep it that way and avoid provocations.

Whether you're Greek or ex-Yugoslav it doesn't concern me.Keep it to yourself.

Leonidas,
apart from meaningless numbers, just a question.
Did you ever traveled to ex-YU?
(i assume so).

As, a Greek, did you ever get yourself skeptic about the fact that there is not a single thing that Greece is doing better than ex-YU (except banking of course, which is in the sphere of virtual reality)?
Accompanied by the fact that the average salary in Greece is at least 2 times the ones in ex-YU?

As A TRUE GREEK (and it seems i am the only one in here), i was DEEPLY concerned by the vast GAP in professional mentality, even between Greece and ex-YU (not to talk about western europe).

I dont know about you guys and your utopias, made by little insignificant digits on paper, but i am deeply concerned about the future of this country.

WE BETTER START WORKING in the right directions (developing a serious professional culture for a start) before we dive even lower accusing left and right.

Leonida,
i am here because of my interest for ex-YU and in particular Serbia.

I see you spend considerable time here, while your last visit was in the 80s!!!
Thus i doubt you understand 1% of what i say, and its normal.We are not in the same "frequency", thus cant communicate.
(same with you as with the rest of my brain-washed family)

I only want to see Greece getting better, lies and delusions do not interest me in the slighest.

PS
True greek is the clever one.

Greece is not the only country in a mess. We also have Italy, Ireland, Portugal and Spain within the Eurozone plus many others out of it. Germany's desire to control Europe looks to be backfiring and could potentially destroy it again - not militarily but economically this time. The European Union is heading in the same direction as the Soviet Union. Greed and incompetence can only be sustained for a short period.
(Zoran, 26 April 2010 14:18)

Am sure its the US that controls EU belive it or not. without US, Eu would not exsist.

I am surprised by such hate and poisonous propaganda comments of Albanians and Fyromians who use Greek or even English nicknames.

Greek people never cheated, average Greek people work much more than 8 hours - doing two jobs (making them much more hard-working than Germans for instance) and more importantly... the Greek government never used a different practise than Italy or France in calculating its dept. It only used the very same old tactics that most European governments use for the last 10 years to logistically reduce its dept - in order to theoretically fulfil the eurozone criteria that "export-based" German economy has set.

The only reason that Greece is in such situation today is that it has been targeted by the speculator funds - making the Greek goverment unable to borrow at normal rates in order to refinance it's dept. That's why this "rescue package" which is nothing more than borrowing at normal (or even high) rates, was created for Greece or any other EU country in the future. In order to let a country borrow at normal rates, when it cannot borrow from the markets that are directly controlled by specific "financial centers"... Greece is today, tommorrow can be Portugal or Spain.

Greece will not get bankrupt, Greece will survive the current crisis and the people who show such envy and hate for Greece (like our Albanian or Fyromian "neighbours") will just keep envyning a much better country and a much better people than their own - even for the next 50 years.

PS: Germany which has based its economic growth on the huge money they got after ww2 (like no other county wordwide), and on the "feeding" of that industry (built with that money) by the other EU countries for the next 60 years(like Greece) will have to pay eventually what it owns to most EU countries. The war compensations that has never paid, and if they would do so they would be worst even than Latvia today. Only for Greece, the amount is 70 billion US dollars set by international court decisions that Germany denies to comply with, since 1952....

Why "worried"? Why should the hard working German pay for Greek cheaters? It was Greece which burned money, not the other way round, and of course some German parties, most notably the Bavarian CSU, but large parts of the CDU and FDP doesn't want to pay for that. How should they explain the German people that there is no money for the own people but forthose liars and cheaters in South-East Europe? If it would have a direct democracy in Germany and the German people would chooce, Greece would already start printing its Drachma. Then they can cheat and lie as much as they like.
(Thomas, 26 April 2010 10:53

People like yourself use the quasi-racist stereotype to describe Greeks as corrupt and lazy( all countries have corupt and lazy people) but it is quite offensive to generalise by implying all Greeks are corrupt.

You conveniently ommit the fact that it's German companies that are subject to biggest corruption scandals both in Germany and abroad (Siemens and Daimler).
daimler alone was fined $400 million in US alone.

Youe assertion that hard working Germans pay for the cheating Greeks are just populist nonsense.Germany won't be taxing anybody in order to provide loans.It will just borrow money by issuing bonds at 3% which will then give to Greece at 5%.Therefore, it will be the Greek taxpayers who will be paying 2% bonus to Germany's coffers and not the other way
round.

The fact of the matter is that EU is spineless and all about bending the rules and this is one of the reasons why is in a mess in the first place.

The EU growth and stability pact prohibits any country to exceed budget deficit of 3% and state deficit of 60% of GDP.Looking at Germany's state deficit in 2009 it was 79.6% of GDP and this year is leading towards 85%.Bending the rules?

If you broaden your horizons you'll see an emerging pattern here.We have the ugly spectacle of existing EU
member states (Latvia,Hungary
Romania,Lithuania) and now eurozone states (Greece and Portugal,Spain teetering to the edge)all being propped up by the IMF.

I am afraid the EU, as we know it, is coming towards the end of its life cycle.I just hope the ugliness of the collapse will be constrained with peacefull means.

Why "worried"? Why should the hard working German pay for Greek cheaters? It was Greece which burned money, not the other way round, and of course some German parties, most notably the Bavarian CSU, but large parts of the CDU and FDP doesn't want to pay for that. How should they explain the German people that there is no money for the own people but forthose liars and cheaters in South-East Europe? If it would have a direct democracy in Germany and the German people would chooce, Greece would already start printing its Drachma. Then they can cheat and lie as much as they like.

Zoran,
the funny part is that both Slovenia/Croatia were traditional agricultural countries till 1950, when the fast industrialization started in those republics.
Serbia had heavy industry since 19th century, yet it was Cro/Slo who albeit benefited from Yugoslavia, were the first to want out!

Also, i dont think that Kosovo would be a black hole if proper Slavic people lived there.

(a little off topic, but i thought it is interesting)

What do you have to say on that?
(Pyrros, 26 April 2010 11:42)

I never implied that every country should produce the basic goods or setting up its own industry, making it independent from other countries. In a globalized world, this is impossible. Everybody should work on that what is capable of doing. If you sell cars, fine, if you sell bottle of whines, fine as well. You make money with products another wants. That is the basic concept of economy. However, we are not talking about economy per se, but about a monitary union which can only work if everybody plays according the rules. The strength of this currencies is based on the strength of its weakest link. It also means that we play with open cards. Greece clearly did not play according these rules and openly lied about its financial status, confirming the fears most Germans, including me, had in the first place. The fact that Greek extremists lash out with Anti-German resintments confirms that, as well. A caught thief will try to divert his guilt to other circumstances, trying to persuade that he had to steal. The fact, however, is that Greece was barely able to meet the criterias which are essential for a monitary union. Of course, it is not possible to compare the German and Greek economy, but then it is necessary to ask why Greece wanted to join the EU when it is not capable to keep up the German paces. The answer is easy. They wanted to enjoy the priveleges to have a stable and worldwide powerful currency without bringing in its own contribution. That is by definition cheating/stealing, no matter which accounting tricks you are going to use. The laughable part is that the Greeks now complain about the very people which helped them to enter the EU-zone. But when you dance with the devil then it is your fault when you get burned. I don't see a single reason why anybody in Europe should pay for this Greek mess. Greece can be thankful for the fact that we don't have a direct democracy in Germany. Our "appeasement" politicians and their check-book diplomacy will make sure that Greece will not sink in the Aegan sea, just as they did since the last decades. Without those payments even Bulgaria would twice as far developed as Greece is today.

However, there is still a slight chance that Greece will be kicked out (diplomatically: asked to leave) the Euro Zone. The CSU, the strongest Bavarian party, pushes to it and there are plenty of supporters in many other parties which agrees with it.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen aus Stuttgart
Thomas

PS: @ The Greek, your resintments towards Germans or other people doesn't impress me not a bit. Get a job, a start working honestly for your country. And stop blaming others for your mess. That will make this situation only worse.

Thomas,
you have a point, you see the tree, but you miss the Great euroatlantic Forest, in which we both (Greece, Germany) are parts of, and believe me, neither Greece, nor Germany leads this big Euroatlantic union. It is USA and UK which pretty much rule the western hemisphere.

Where would Germany (or S.Korea or Japan or China or India) be without the creation and provision and most importantly the protection of the commercial channels in which the industrial countries can move their products?

So, you have to jump a little out of "German" world and see the whole post 1945, post 1991 situation.

And of course, we have to jump out of our Greek world and opening our eyes.

Thomas, i am not even 000.1% skeptical about EU/Germany *knowing* exactly the real (low) potential of the Greek economy in 1991.
There is no chance on earth that *any* EU beurocract/technocrat would be so silly.
We were acting, Thomas, according to orders. Just like you the Germans did and everyone was happy, until, somebody wasn't.

These arguments sound similar to those before the breakup of Yugoslavia. Arguments such as Slovenia being unhappy to waste funds on that black hole Kosovo.

Greece is not the only country in a mess. We also have Italy, Ireland, Portugal and Spain within the Eurozone plus many others out of it. Germany's desire to control Europe looks to be backfiring and could potentially destroy it again - not militarily but economically this time. The European Union is heading in the same direction as the Soviet Union. Greed and incompetence can only be sustained for a short period.

Leonidas,
apart from meaningless numbers, just a question.
Did you ever traveled to ex-YU?
(i assume so).

As, a Greek, did you ever get yourself skeptic about the fact that there is not a single thing that Greece is doing better than ex-YU (except banking of course, which is in the sphere of virtual reality)?
Accompanied by the fact that the average salary in Greece is at least 2 times the ones in ex-YU?

As A TRUE GREEK (and it seems i am the only one in here), i was DEEPLY concerned by the vast GAP in professional mentality, even between Greece and ex-YU (not to talk about western europe).

I dont know about you guys and your utopias, made by little insignificant digits on paper, but i am deeply concerned about the future of this country.

WE BETTER START WORKING in the right directions (developing a serious professional culture for a start) before we dive even lower accusing left and right.

Thomas,
are you naively implying that the world should go to a new model of horizontal production where every country should produce whatever it needs?
Because, of course, Greece and other countries will always remain dependent on EU funds, since we cannot produce anything "big" by ourselves.

If that is what you are implying, well, then the YUGOSLAV paradigm, will ALWAYS be there, to remind you that those same centers which are now denying loans, WERE THE SAME CENTERS WHICH DESTROYED PRODUCTION in the balkan region.

What do you have to say on that?

Also, i dont think that Kosovo would be a black hole if proper Slavic people lived there."

So tell us about the smart Greeks? Why is it STILL a black hole, even after $450 Billion in debt and $300 Billion in free EU gifts?

The words of Frattini must be put in contest ...actually the "real" battle that is going on is about the future of Euro-zone ..the German vision differs to the French-italian one SO The Greek case is a proxy for the future..

GERMANY!!!!
For the sake of your exports (BMWs/Porche/Audi/Mercedes)
pls give Greece some more 50B euros...
You know your sales will boost after that.
And we, Greeks, will have all the time (till the next war (where debts are usually reset)) to claim we are the supergreeks, the superhumans of the balkans, the ONLY TRUE descendants of Alexander the Great, the land of philosophers, mathematicians, democracy, , etc...
It is just in the last 2000 years, we rather "use" (what others produce) rather than produce ourselves.

It is unfair for Germany to be expected to bail out the poorer EU states such as Greece, when their economy messes up. Greece should get a loan from the IMF.

Also look what Iceland did, they have refused to pay back Britain and the Netherlands for the loan which was given to them. How do we know that stubborn Greece isn't going to do the same thing?

Leonida,
i am here because of my interest for ex-YU and in particular Serbia.

I see you spend considerable time here, while your last visit was in the 80s!!!
Thus i doubt you understand 1% of what i say, and its normal.We are not in the same "frequency", thus cant communicate.
(same with you as with the rest of my brain-washed family)

I only want to see Greece getting better, lies and delusions do not interest me in the slighest.

PS
True greek is the clever one.

Leonidas,
apart from meaningless numbers, just a question.
Did you ever traveled to ex-YU?
(i assume so).

As, a Greek, did you ever get yourself skeptic about the fact that there is not a single thing that Greece is doing better than ex-YU (except banking of course, which is in the sphere of virtual reality)?
Accompanied by the fact that the average salary in Greece is at least 2 times the ones in ex-YU?

As A TRUE GREEK (and it seems i am the only one in here), i was DEEPLY concerned by the vast GAP in professional mentality, even between Greece and ex-YU (not to talk about western europe).

I dont know about you guys and your utopias, made by little insignificant digits on paper, but i am deeply concerned about the future of this country.

WE BETTER START WORKING in the right directions (developing a serious professional culture for a start) before we dive even lower accusing left and right.
(Pyrros, 26 April 2010 16:33


My experience from the old Yugoslavia was back in the the middle 1980s when driving through i was stopped by the guys with the boots and on motorbikes and forcing me to pay a fine for a non-existent driving offence.

But i don't understand the point you're trying to make here.You're trying to compare
Old Yugoslavia with Greece.

Each country is trading on its strengths.Greece has a huge shipping sector which together with tourism account for half of Greece's GDP.

Yugoslavia,on the other hand,had a better industry and agricultural sector.

I have never maintained that the situation in Greece is rosy.The country is in a deep hole and it will take few years to get out and provided the reforms take place and mentality at both at cultural and psychological level changes.

If Greeks still aspire to become unproductive labour(public servants)instead of developing other skills and still insist with rampant tax evasion then the country will not recover.

I would rather not comment on your self-promotion as being the only true Greek on this forum.

If its called the European community I expect all member states to support Greece. One for all and all for one. If rich EU countries don't want to help poor then I guess there is no chance in hell that Albania and Moldova can join. Those countries need to be built from the beginning.

PS
True greek is the clever one.
(Pyrros, 26 April 2010 18:47)

It's always been my policy not to engage in personal attacks with other posters and i intend to keep it that way and avoid provocations.

Whether you're Greek or ex-Yugoslav it doesn't concern me.Keep it to yourself.

Greece is not the only country in a mess. We also have Italy, Ireland, Portugal and Spain within the Eurozone plus many others out of it. Germany's desire to control Europe looks to be backfiring and could potentially destroy it again - not militarily but economically this time. The European Union is heading in the same direction as the Soviet Union. Greed and incompetence can only be sustained for a short period.
(Zoran, 26 April 2010 14:18)

Am sure its the US that controls EU belive it or not. without US, Eu would not exsist.