"Croatia should apologize for WW2 genocide"

"...Until Croatia can learn to tell the truth about its history, there should be no place for it in the European Union," he concludes..."


>>> Love this Canadians..via Lewis Mackenzie to James Bisset...they have "b...."to spit the truth!

I appreciate the fact that Mr. Bisset acknowledged the other side of the story which is more than needed.
However, no apology will make victims and their families to feel better.
Personally, apology from any side involved in conflicts makes no sense to me, especially if an apology itself is not honest gesture but forced one.
I won’t feel any better after the apology from Croatia’s, Bosnia’s or Kosovo’s representatives.
Nor will any displaced person who has happened to survive horrors.
Condemnation of the committed crime during WWII and the last war in the terms of governmental declarations would make some positive step. But, of course, that would not be enough.

Nevertheless, compensation is something that we can always talk about.
Serbs should be given back everything they possessed and lost during NDH , including the last war too.
That is why I strongly support alignment (if the word is correct) of the two sides before the court.

I am sure Serbia would need to compensate something too but that would be a small thing compared to what Croatia would have to compensate in return. RSK at least would make some sense.

Thank you Mr. Bisset on your honesty and good intentions!

What more to say? Well said Ambassador Bisset, as always! It's a shame that we don't hear the leaders of France and the UK demanding the same thing and simply toeing the German line. How soon they forget.

Pravda

Mario,
I do not think that there is some massive doubt hanging over the Vukovar case. However, let it also be understood that the point of the article is that the Croats were as guilty as sin over the acts commited during WWII. It is clear that the Serbian nation and peoples have been associated with the guilt of their past, it is now time for Croatia to associate it self to it's past guilts.
The fact that I hear Croatians denying, or trying to spin (via questioning official numbers) the impact of the WWII genocidal actions of the Croatian institutions, in the same way that Croatians get insulted when they hear a Serbian denying attrocities of the 90s it makes me think that Croatia has not come to terms with this act, that it's people have not accepted their pasts, and that they are in no way considering changing their stance.
It is somewhat, no very much, childish to get upset over Serbia's reluctance to extend an olive branch when living memories of Jacenovac still exist, as do those of Vukovar. However those memories of Jacenovac are older and deeper rooted. Those memories, one would figure, should be addressed prior to the most recent ones.
Eitherway, all memories of atrocities should be properly addressed. Appologies should be made, and people should accept the past and move on -- something that most can only do once they have been given the privilage of closure.

"They are receiving all their land and property back"

Mike, why is my brother in law's village a ghost town whenever I visit it then? Have you ever been to Krajina?

I think you forgot to deny that any Serbs died in Death Camps during WWII too.

mario,
do your really believe that by telling the same lies over and over again that they are going to become true one day? The world is beginning to see who the Croats really are, what the 90's were all about. The US claimed and claimed there was weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, over and over again it didn't work. You Croats have the same FALSE ACCUSATORY ASSAULT mechanism that continues to fail you, look it up...it is well studied in psych. And it always shows is used to hide guilt and build a fantasy world where the truth has no value. We are raising lots of money to show the truth about what happened in Serbia, it is time for the TRUTH to come out - keep accusing, keep trying mario you look so desparate - like your entire country of Croatia begging Serbs to come to your coast.

Tibor,

Actually, partisans tried and unfortunately successfully did their best to make Jasenovac look like a “small nasty picnic that turned out to be just an orgy of perverted Ustashas“.

I don’t remember anything about Jasenovac from my history books used in schools.
Actually, it has been just shyly mentioned representing it as if it was only a naughty “orgy” leaving the facts out. I never learned at school how bestial crime against the Serbs, Jews and Romas had happened in Croatia during NDH. About Jasenovac and other scaffolds I learnt from many once forbiden sources.

Croats greatly benefited behind the “Brotherhood and Unity” and that is the fact as it is the fact too that many Ustashas became partisans at the end of the war after realising that their dream was falling apart.

Croatia lies on the pits filled with the Serbian bodies, and that is the fact buddy.

There is something for you in case you forgot it.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/5480716/Ivan-Goran-Kovacic-Jama

Kudos to Ivan Goran Kovacic

If the ENTIRE region REALLY wants to "bury the hatchet" then they (countries and ethnic groups) should ALL admit, condemn and apologise for their previous crimes. Once there is a bit of honesty in the region with politicians big enough to admit to previous crimes, it'll be much easier and quicker for states to move forward together into the EU.

RE; Serbian Genocide

Before WWII began, the population of Serbs in the Banovina's of today Croatia was 1.9 Million Today, it is less than 75,000 if that. To hear some Croatians continue to deny this is disheartening to say the least.

Further, the Croatian Cardinals and Vatican were responsible in shielding both Ustasha and Nazi's in South America, Canada and the US. These same criminals were allowed back into Croatia to commit crimes agaain and try to create an Ustasha state. One such criminal, Father Draganovic continues to live In Canada with blood stained on this hands.

Well said Amb. Bisset. I couldn't have said it better myself and it high time Croatia own up to its dark past. The NDH pales in comparison to anything committed in the name of Serbia and the Serbian people under Milosevic and the fact that it was the most slavishly loyal Nazi puppet state in all of Europe should have been more than enough reason for Croatia to expunge all connection to that time period as soon as it declared independence.

To all, especially Matthew, the "Mike" below is not me. We have lots of people with the name Michael around here, and all go under different name variations. But just so there's no confusion that's not me.

Mike (the original)

Biljana,

We can go at this all day if you like. No one doubts that there were innocent people killed there. The numbers run into the thousands. But we need a more accurate and truthful study. For instance supposed victims were later found alive and well. There were double and triple counts of individuals. The demographics do not make sense. Think about it and stop using this shameful event for political purposes. Where do you hide 700,000+ bodies? We need to honor the dead and not use them for nationlist purposes.

Let croatia and serbia form a joint task force let the truth be learned. Until we do there will never be understanding or peace.

It is interesting to read the comment of a typical Croat below (oops) of how Serbs are "living in the past". And yet you Croats constantly talk about Stjepan Radić, Bleiburg, UDBA, etc. Aren't you guys living in the past? I guess not when your glorious Ustasha heroes are killed.

Good Article. I do not think that every ethnic race in the Balkans has done ethnic cleansing when they have had the power to do so.

Excellent suggestion - this is exactly the kind of gesture that would go to the heart of curing the Serb-Croat conflict.
Some reasonable autonomy for Serbian Krajina (currently even saying the word gets you in trouble in Croatia), some more substantial returns of refugees and we can pretty much put the issue to rest.
I doubt Croat politicians have the guts though (even though this solution leaves Krajina as part of Croatia).
Serbs would need to lobby the Vatican/Germany directly to get this sort of thing thru. The Croatian lap dog would then follow.
Serbs haven't been good at doing that sort of thing before (pandering to foreign powers) but I sense that something along those lines may indeed now be happening.
Let's hope this is one useful dividend.

Lenard

Good points. Indeed the firebombings of German and Japanese cities by the allies was a sick warcrime. Personally, I think if Srebrenica was classified so easily as a genocide, what can one say about the hundreds of thousands of Germans and Japanese that were burned alive by all those millions of bombs dropped on their cities?

America and its entire sickening NWO is truly the greatest hypocrisy this planet has every seen. Europe is also infected and now the entire Western world is rotting under massive recession, uncontrolled immigration (who claim as high as 40% of state welfare, despite their lower representative percentage) and concept of a technological, materialistic, individualistic and stupid society.

But can anyone say anything against this? No, because that would be against the spirit of multiculturalism and political correctness.

Little Croatia must apologise for Jasenovac, but will big America apologise for Dresden, Hiroshima, Hamburg, Nagasaki or Cologne?

The quicker this world government phenomenon rots away into the darkest confines of history, the better for mankind. I only hope by then Europe and North America will not be destroyed by this credit crisis and mass immigration.

What crime? ICTY Judgment against Milan Martic shows Slobodan Milosevic's guilt and Yugoslav People Army's involvement in the widespread war crimes. Serbs ethnically cleansed Croats, Bosniaks, and other non-Serbs from it's territory 4 years before Croatian and Bosnian Army struck back and regained forcibly taken territory. It also shows that more than 200,000 Croats and other non-Serbs were ethnically cleansed from Serb-held territories in Croatia long before Croatian and Bosnian Army attacked Serbs and regained lost territory in the Operation Storm. Croatian solider defended his own country and did not engage in war on Serbian territory. By bringing up the issue of “aggressor and the victim”, placing Serbia and Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo on the same defendant`s bench was “tasteless in relation to values of the western civilisation”. The only crime bigger than the war crime is the post war one, for which the aggressor is absolved. Let there be no doubt, Serbia is guilt as sin of the wars and massacre at Srebrenica, Vukovar...

Mike - we knew that wasn't the real Mike (unless you popped some really crazy pills lately :)

As for our Croatian/Albanian friend "Mike" - you should be ashamed of yourself, your reaction to the word "Krajina" is exactly what I am talking about - pure hysteria.

Krajina does exist (has since Austrian times) and 90% of it's population was Serbian until Croatia chose the genocide option. It is totally reasonable to refer to it as Serbian Krajina.

What is the matter with some autonomy for these poor people after all they have endured?

It's a lot less than you demand from Serbia for "Kosova".

If you had guts you would make a big gesture now while you have the upper hand, but, as I mentioned, it won't happen till the real commandants give the nod (Vatican/Germany).

It is Croatia that has never really existed as an independent country.

Anybody responsible for warcrimes must apologise for them. End of story.

Now to "oops"

"Croatia today has nothing to do with Ustasha regime and unlike Serbia that has caused all the pain and suffering during 90's break up"

And Serbia today doesn't have anything to do with Milosevic's regime, so I guess recent parliamentary apology for Srebrenica wasn't necessary?
Why not simply say "we had nothing to do with it"?
Are you sure that Serbia caused all the pain and suffering during 90's break up?
There are those who think differently.

James Bisset and other international cronies should keep out of the balkans and mind their own business.

Croatia and Serbia will continue to move forward without the interference of others.

By the way most comments on this topic are inaccurate.

The first step is to try to determine a more correct amount of Victims. The figure of 700,000 was pure partisan propaganda. Once the correct figure is determined then the two countries can approach each other.

@commentator

Easy there. After what the Serbs did in the Krajina region (attempting to ethnically clense the area of non-Serb civilians), I wouldn't count on autonomy in that region. The Serbs are represented fairly in Croatian Parliament, and that's how far it should go. And for the record, there is no such thing as Serbian Krajina. That was just a false name that was pushed by the rebel Serbs during the war. The historical term for that region was always called the Croatian Military Frontier aka Krajina. Do not throw the word "Srpska" in there. It is false, and pushes for the idea that it belongs to Serbia for some reason. Serbs have full ethic rights in Croatia, they are represented, and relations are pretty good between the two countries. That's how far it should go.

As for Serbs receiving "more substantial returns", I think what they are receiving now is more than fair. Croatia is resettling all Serbs, who left during the war, back into the region. They are receiving all their land and property back, which is what should be expected. I do not see the Republika Srpska in Bosnia doing the same for Croats who lived there. If anyone should be complaining about not having their property returned to them, it's the Croats.

Yes the Canadians should apologies for being a puppet of the British in WW2. Incendiaring hundreds of thousands civilians in towns of Germany with incendiary bombs. With out militarily justification as being legitimate targets. Lets not forget USA in Japan also vapourizing cities and civilians and horrible deaths of civilians from radiation and burns. I guess as victors you can sweep yore war crimes away and tell how good righteous people you are. From enslaving the world by the American/British/French and all their conspirators. To again enslaving the world in to their new world order by bankrupting the world.

Oops

What they lacked in ‘industrialness’ they substituted with sheer bestiality of the kind unknown even to Nazi officers.

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/othercamps/jasenovac.html

My grandfather told me stories about corpses drifting down the Sava River every day during the war, and of the entire wedding butchered and connected with barb wires that got stuck on the Sava Bridge in Belgrade. According to him entire Sava and Danube river banks in Dorcol were one big graveyard filled with victims of the Ustashi attrocities…

Mike (the original), so clearly NOT you, the other Mike clearly lacks your sense of humor.

“Unlike Nazis, ustasha regime did not have industrial death camps therefore there were not capable of such mass murder as you are trying to suggest (oops, 5 April 2010 22:08)”

I do believe the record for slitting throats in one night by one Ustasha was 1200, so yes, it was possible. They would also wrap barb wire around groups of people and push them off cliffs and stuff.

If you visit Jasenovac, you can see the mounds where the bodies are buried. The Croatian government refuses to allow investigations into the WWII crimes.

"The former ambassador also notes that the estimates "vary between 300,000 and 700,000 victims were murdered by Croatian fascists during the war".

He's talking about WW2 Croatia, not about Jasenovac alone.

Izrael's Yad Vashem, and its Shoah Resource Center, The International School for Holocaust Studies are considered authority in the field, due to thorough research they've done in the past. Their figure is 30.000 Jews, but also:

"More then 500.000 Serbs were murdered in horribly sadistic ways, 250.000 were expelled and another 200.000 were forced to convert to Catholicism."

http://www1.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%205930.pdf

Other estimates vary due to lack of accurate records and the methods used for making estimates.

German generals issued reports of the number of victims as the war progressed. German military commanders gave different figures for the number of Serbs, Jews and others killed on the territory of the Independent State of Croatia.

They circulated figures of 400,000 Serbs (Alexander Löhr); 350,000 Serbs (Lothar Rendulic); around 300,000 (Edmund Glaise von Horstenau); in 1943; "600-700,000 until March 1944" (Ernst Fick); 700,000 (Massenbach).

Hermann Neubacher calculated:
"When prominent Ustasha leaders claimed that they slaughtered a million Serbs, that is, in my opinion, a boastful exaggeration. On the basis of the reports submitted to me, I believe that the number of victims to be three quarters of a million."
He was also suspicious "that the Ustaše were more concerned with the elimination of Serbs than Jews devoting too many resources to it."

Tibor, I can agree with you that joint task force would be a good idea. But, you shouldn't be assuming that this is all just partisan propaganda.

CROATIA must conduct a serious moral inventory of itself and promise to make amends before it can ever hope to be taken seriously as a member of the EU.
No ifs, ands or buts about it.

MB,Ireland

America and its entire sickening NWO is truly the greatest hypocrisy this planet has every seen
Peter Sudyka, 6 April 2010 14:43)
Not planet but universe .At least Darth Veder did not pretend to be good.

700,000 Serbs killed in Jasenovac is simply not possible. Think about it as far as i understand Ustasha were knifing people therefore killing 700,000 would not add up in 4 years of war. Unlike Nazis, ustasha regime did not have industrial death camps therefore there were not capable of such mass murder as you are trying to suggest. The Canadian ambassador should have used a common sense before venturing in such historically inaccurate reporting of events. By doing so he is not doing anybody any good and should be told so.

Btw. Croatia today has nothing to do with Ustasha regime and unlike Serbia that has caused all the pain and suffering during 90's break up, Croatia is moving forward and is a respected member of intl. community. (e.g. non-permanent member of UN security council, member of Nato and soon member of EU)

Where is Serbia? Living in the past and insisting on lies and causing troubles even today.

Good point, Lenard.
You've gone to the heart of the matter - selective memory!
This is exactly what I'm seeing here.
Just look at Mario's comment.
There you have it - Serbs ethnically cleansed Croats, Bosniaks, and other non-Serbs from it's territory 4 years before they were cleansed back!
"It also shows that more than 200,000 Croats and other non-Serbs were ethnically cleansed from Serb-held territories in Croatia long before Croatian and Bosnian Army attacked Serbs..."
First, no it doesn't!
At the moment of "blue helmets" arrival in early 1992 major military operations were over. UNHCR have registered 180.000 Croats and non-Serbs displaced (expelled or moved out of the battle zone by themselves) from Serb controlled territory. Not 200.000.
As you seem to have selective memory, same document had 280.000 Serbs and non-Croats displaced (expelled or moved out of the battle zone by themselves) from Croat controlled territory.
"Let there be no doubt, Serbia is guilt as sin of the wars and massacre at Srebrenica, Vukovar..."

There is no Croatian guilt and massacres in Vukovar?
Here is a nice article from your own Croatian newspapers Split-based Feral Tribune

http://www.ex-yupress.com/feral/feral193.html

"Danube carries something" is the title, so Jelena, UK , we don't have to go to WW2 for memories similar to your grandfather's.
Article is about investigation of the events from July and August of 1991, when the town was under absolute rule of Tomislav Mercep and JNA wasn't even close, it only came to Vukovar in late September of that year.

According to Ferdinand Jukic former SZUP agent (Croatian police) in Vukovar, Tomislav Mercep kept more than a hundred Serbs in the cellar of the Territorial Defense building, where Mercep's headquarters were located. Most of those Serbs later "disappeared".

Corpses were thrown into Danube and some of them "floated all the way to Sremska Mitrovica and Novi Sad, where they were buried."

Jukic is still willing to testify, but appearantly nobody cares.

But, Jukic is not alone.

"Sasa Lalic, the head of the Vukovar office of the Croatian Helsinki Center for Human Rights, says for Feral that evidence and individual testimonies indicate that Serbs from Vukovar were not murdered randomly, but that there must have been a premeditated plan and lists of people who were supposed to be captured and then executed. Mostly distinguished, respected or wealthy Serbs were chosen. "

"Between April 15 and July 30 1991, numerous Serb houses were blown up, as well as cafes "Krajisnik", "Sarajka", "Tufo", "Brdo", "Mali Raj", "Popaj", "Tocak", "Cokot bar", and "Sid", and dry cleaning businesses owned by Serbs."

Between April 15 and July 30!!!???
When did JNA arrive - Sep 20, right?

So, who blew those "numerous Serb houses"?
We don't know.
But, we know this.

"However, it appears that Mercep forgets that in September 1990, long before any indication of the "log revolution" [Serb rebellion] in Croatia, precisely he requested from Branimir Glavas "50 kilograms of salami and as many detonators as possible". This request was written on a piece of notebook paper and still exists. Glavas had before delivered 100kg [220lb] of Vitezit 60 [plastic explosive], also known as "salami". There must have been more deliveries because in October 1990 Glavas took another 500kg [1200lb] of Vitezit 60, ten meters of slowly burning fuse, thousand meters of detonation fuse, and 200 detonators from the Orahovac quarry."

I will have to stress worlds "long before any indication of the "log revolution" [Serb rebellion] in Croatia".

LONG BEFORE.
Yet, according to "oops" Serbia and Serbs "caused all the pain and suffering during 90's break up"
Do you think that they placed the logs on the roads, and organized watches to stop those "pacifists and democrats" from coming to blow up their homes, or they were into causing pain and suffering?

(Croatian Helsinki Committee for Human Rights issued report in 1992 documenting more then 10.000 Serb homes blown in Zagreb and Karlovac areas only, by the way-not destroyed as part of any military operation).

Just Helsinki and Jukic? Not at all.

Marin Vidic Bili, envoy of the Croatian government for the Vukovar municipality, on August 18 sent a dramatic letter in which he described the situation in Vukovar.

"However, the Croatian state leadership, and even the former opposition leaders, later coalition partners [current Prime Minister] Ivica Racan and [HSLS leader] Drazen Budisa, were aware of what was going on in Vukovar at the time, while Mercep's groups illegally broke into Serb apartments in the town, looted, illegally confiscated cars and trucks, blew up houses and cafes, took into custody and murdered..."

Letter was also sent to " president Tudman and Prime Minister Greguric, as well as to the ministers of defense and internal affairs (Police)"

Entire Croatian leadership, including Tudman was aware of the events in Vukovar!!!

So, what did they do? Did they try to stop him?

"However, in Zagreb, although the state leadership was informed about his actions in Vukovar, Mercep was not prosecuted. On the contrary, he was appointed for the advisor of the then Minister of Internal Affairs (Police) Ivan Vekic."

He was promoted!!

As a police advisor he continued to leave a bloody trail behind, Pakracka Poljana, Gospic, etc.

Here is an interview with Miro Bajramovic, one of Mercep's men, who decided to "spill the beans".
Warning!
Do not read the link if you are sensitive!

http://digilander.libero.it/lajugoslaviavivra/CRJ/DOCS/bajeng.html

I don't know what happened to Mercep. Where is he today? He was never charged with anyting, I know that. Is he still member of Croatian parliament?

Back to subject.
In his letter to Tudman Marin Vidic Bili warns that such Mercep's activities are creating "psychotic fear among local Croats and Serbs, which has prompted many to leave the town".

And such activities by other "Merceps" have prompted 280.000 to leave Croatian controlled territory by the end of 1991.

Come on, people. Get serious. On May 2, 1991 hundreds of Serb homes were torched in Zadar and Sibenik in a single night. First such mass occurance in former Yugoslavia.
In October 1991 Croatian authorities issued an order giving all ethnic Serbs in Slavonska Pozega and Western Slavonia 48 hours to leave. It was broadcasted on local radio stations, and printed in local newspapers.
Local Serbs were not near Krajina, they were not rebellious, nor they demanded anything (they were 25% - 30% of population in the area). Autorities tried to justify the move by need to "secure depth of Croatian territory of potential threats."
40.000 people moved out in fear, leaving villages empty. Croatian Army moved in, killing all that were left behind (mostly elderly with nowhere to go), then burnt houses, churches...
How is an empty house or church "threat to depth of Croatian territory"???
It was a first case of massive ethnic cleansing in former Yugoslavia. For the first time we've seen columns of refugees on farm tractors, etc.

I could go on, but it's long enough as it is.
Forget WW2. You people don't think that you have anything to apologize for now?

Prior to this Resolution passed by Serbian parliament just week ago, Tadic personally and in public apologized to Croats, Muslims in Bosnia, and Albanians for everything wrong that Serbs have done to them.
Nobody thought that they should issue an apology to Serbs for their own wrong-doing.

That's because they've never done anything wrong, especially to us, it seems.

According to him entire Sava and Danube river banks in Dorcol were one big graveyard filled with victims of the Ustashi attrocities…
(Jelena, UK, 6 April 2010 12:27) Yore Grandfather conveniently forgot to tell you about the Serb Četnik atrocities murders and dumping the bodies into the rivers. Like in the town of Višegrad in WW2 in the Drina region and again in the 1990s. Then again he was a Serb as usual they only see everyones elses sins not their own. What was Srpska entity built on carved out in half of Bosnia i Herzegovina Republic. Maybe on peace love tolerance ya sure all of our butchers are a shame. Those butchers give a bloody dark stain on the rest of the population that is hard to get rid of.

@Bilbao

From Serbian point of view there is no difference, only religion.

But from Croatian point of view, they will tell you that Serbs and Croat are different. They will never admit that we are the same, just have different religion.

That is the reason why they wanted during WWII to clean Croatia of Serbs and Gypsies. Interesting point, they stoped killing muslim Gypsies after Bosnian reis ulema raise his concerns but they continued kiling Serbs and Christian gypsies.

First of all Mr. Bissett maybe you should look at the those countries who represent the 'Commonwealth'. Every nation including your beloved Canada has caused destruction, mass killings, human rights abuses to the indigenous populations. You should keep quiet when you have no idea about the balkans. Secondly Croatia was under German occupation and was never a soverign country so how could it be responsible as a country when it was occupied. The massacres at Blieuburg were also horrific but due to Serbia being under Tito and Yugoslavia the Croats also have no case. If these massacres occured under the respective Croatian and Serbian governements then yes they should be accountable. Maybe the Hungarians should've apoligised for Atila's massacres. Where does it end, it's always some foreigner who thinks he can try to influence the way we think and feel.Go Home!

Pfft. Canadians shouldn't talk. They've committed crimes just as bad.

Did you know that in Canada, they passed a Sexual Sterilization Act to prevent people who were mentally disabled from having children?

They expanded it to include Canadian natives and immigrants by making everyone write IQ test that were written in English. If you didn't get a good score, you were forcibly castrated.

It was only 30 years ago that they finally abolished this act.

My point is, that every country was guilty of crimes against another at some point in recent history. It is pointless to continue to bicker about these things, and we must move forward.

As a Croat Of Serb ancestry I must say that my family who have lived in Dalmatia for a very long time and who are Catholics have never expirenced this hatred. We are still there and noone ever came to our house and told us that we weren't Croats and that we had to leave. We enjoy full citizenship and own land and a home there. Maybe it is really not about race but about your attitude and poltics??

A long road lies ahead of Serbia to join EU membership : it is likely to take at least four years before its hand extends to Serbia. But a solemn promise has been made to Croatia, as being on track, to join EU in a year or two. But the candidate has not made any atonement for the atrocities having inflicted to Serbs in the World War Two. The independent State of Croatia committed the genocide against Serbs in the World War Two, when about seven hundred thousand Serbs were killed . There is a lot of evidence to substantiate this claim. Even the German senior military officials affirmed that Ustasha’s troops committed atrocious crimes . The International Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, also known as the Genocide Convention did not affect Croatia, though, under the international law ,crimes committed in the 20th century cannot be annuled. During World War I (1914-1918), the government of the Ottoman Empire committed genocide to million to 1.8 million Armenian citizens in eastern Anatolia. These events have been affirmed and comdemned as genocide by the European Parliament and more than ten countries—including Vatican. Nazi Germany committed systematic genocide during World War II,which resulted in deaths of an estimated 5 to 6 million Jews, about 500,000 Roma, and millions of other people considered undesirable in German territory. It was condemned by countries worldwide. The independent state of Croatia committed genocide during World War II, killing an estimated 600,000 to 700,000 Serbian citizens. No resolution on that crime has ever been passed . No widespread international condemnation has been passed. Croats are being lulled into believing that no burden of the infamous past will ever come into broad daylight.







This act provided a legal definition of genocide and established genocide as a crime under international law. According to the Genocide Convention, crimes committed in the 20th century cannot be annuled. During World War I (1914-1918), the
As for the Croation lawsuit submitted to the ICJ indicting Serbia for genocide in the war period 1991-95., Serbia responded with countersuit,indicting Croatia for ethnic cleansing of Serbs in military operations’’ Blijesak’’ and’’ Oluja’’in the same war period. Chances are slim for either country. In the former Bosnian suit, Serbia was indicted for committing genocide in that teritory ,but as it could not be substantiated, the ICJ ruling was that Serbia did not participate in genocide. War crimes and great damages were inflicted by all war-waging ethnic groups in Croatia,but they are not supposed to be genocide. On the other hand, if Croatia does not back down and drop the charges against Serbia, Serbia has strong’’ trump’’ to prove that Croatia really committed genocide against Serbs in the World War Two, when about seven hundred thousand Serbs were killed . There is a lot of evidence to substantiate this claim. Recently we have heard a lot of speculations by Croation officials, especially by ’’wisecracking’’ President Mesic that Serbia is not able to substantiate its lawsuit. He keeps on demonizing Serbian policy in the region. If either side toned down speech ,they might reach settlement and drop

Anybody responsible for warcrimes must apologise for them. End of story.
(Peter Sudyka)
-
Either we ALL apoligise to each other, or we just bury the past and move on with our lives like nothing ever happened, end of story.

trudsaam and szemi

Well said!

Unfortunately, EU is not so pragmatic. Both Czech Republic and Slovakia are full members, and unscrupulously and shamefully keeping alive laws (Benes Decrees) which collectively condemned all Germans and Hungarians for war crimes (the old and infants included), stripped off their citizenship and deported them by the millions. How about a little ups, sorry for that??? No, instead they have the nerve to be in the counter offensive and explaining that these pieces of legislatons are essential and they are the "basis"of their statehood. Amazing!

Is this guy a historian, politician or conspiracy theorist?

Lenard,
What my grandfather told me was what he himself witnessed in Belgrade during WW2. Has he lived in Visegrad, he would have been able to tell me what happened there, I am sure. Also, Belgrade was quite a multicultural city even then, so what makes you feel certain that he was a Serb, and therefore biased?
The point I wanted to make was, that the scale of atrocities committed was such that it was felt all the way till Belgrade and if you are feeling offended by it there is nothing I can (or want to) do about it.

@Dino

But you are Catholic? That is the answer.

Can someone tell me real difference between Serbs and Croats. Same language different religion. from history you came together to Europe ( some say from region in Iran some say from Carpat mountains).

Also if Croatia apologize i think Serbs just want this so they can say you see you did it too.

Most of us in this forum were nto born in 1945 not to say those crimes matter less, but every day I here Serbs here claiming they did not do anything wrong in Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo.

Gotovina, Arkan they are not just some good boys they are both mass murders.

Please answer my question difference between Serbs and Croats>

Srbenda, So it's just because I'm Catholic then. I'm not to sure about that. Most of the comments here seem to focus on race. Croats think that they are Nordics Serbs are happy being Slavs. I myself am the typical beautiful Dinaric sub type. I have golden skin tall and muscular. I do standout when I am in the middle of Zagreb Croats. Do you think that they whisper about me? LOL
Listen for the both of you to be killing each other over a foreign relgion is pathetic.
There are others Serbs that come to visit freinds and relatives here in my part of Dalmatia and I can tell you that they are not harrassed. Maybe it is beacuse these people are known from the past as good people.

I myself am the typical beautiful Dinaric sub type. I have golden skin tall and muscular.
(Dino, 7 April 2010 17:24)

Me to mate. I just have dark hair. Maybe we are distant cousins;-)

I dont look Slav at all, more Italian, but too tall to be Italian. I am prettier version of Zlatan Ibrahimovic lol.

In general Dinaric people look the same, does not matter if they are from Dalmatia, Hercegovina, Montenegro or West Serbia where I am from. Only what separates us is religion, unfortunately.

It was our csar Dusan who decided that Serbs can not be Catholics. They were so many Serbs Catholics around Dubrovnik

Thank you Mr. Bisset. If I may add, along with the apology, that is at the very least expected, there should be retribution as well. Croatia is expected to relinquish territory. The same is expected of B&H and Albania as well. This should be expected of all those who have committed atrocities in the name of their nation and based on the amount of cruelty and damage that has been committed. I believe that all the current ex-Yugoslav political entities are aware of the consequences related to the crimes. This is primarily why the decendants of the Ustashi & Communist regimes only use the treat of a law suit in order to continue the cover up of the connection the two regimes had and continue to have to this very day.

I have faith that President Tadic is a wise man and shall act accordingly regarding the issue of genocide committed against his people in WWII and the latter half of the 20th century. It is in the interest of all ex-Yugoslav peoples that this issue be put to rest...but, not with out retribution.

Serbs and Croats are NOT different from each other. The ONLY thing we should all agree on is that WE all simultaneously fell for the same trick.

Because of this we have been fooled into thiking we are different. So please brothers and sisters it is TIME to wake UP... Dreading on the past will not solve anything, only awaken hate/fear/sorrow... we need to understand this.

We are on the verge of a re-unification, NOT politically (which in fact they are trying to prevent) but genetically. We are drawn to each because we are in fact the SAME people... good day :)

This name James Bisset might be popular in Serbia but not in Canada or US. He could very well say same thing about Albanians which would be ridiculous!. Ancient Dalmatia is an Illyrian pride, even President Mesic said that in Tirana didn't he?.
As an Albanian with roots from what is today southern Montenegro I gotta tell you that one of my best friends Croat from southern Dalmatia(Dubrovnik or ancient Ragusha)area and I look a lot the same, pretty much same face features. No wonder my friend has been mistaken for an Albanian many times.

@commentator

Easy there. After what the Serbs did in the Krajina region (attempting to ethnically clense the area of non-Serb civilians), I wouldn't count on autonomy in that region. The Serbs are represented fairly in Croatian Parliament, and that's how far it should go. And for the record, there is no such thing as Serbian Krajina. That was just a false name that was pushed by the rebel Serbs during the war. The historical term for that region was always called the Croatian Military Frontier aka Krajina. Do not throw the word "Srpska" in there. It is false, and pushes for the idea that it belongs to Serbia for some reason. Serbs have full ethic rights in Croatia, they are represented, and relations are pretty good between the two countries. That's how far it should go.

As for Serbs receiving "more substantial returns", I think what they are receiving now is more than fair. Croatia is resettling all Serbs, who left during the war, back into the region. They are receiving all their land and property back, which is what should be expected. I do not see the Republika Srpska in Bosnia doing the same for Croats who lived there. If anyone should be complaining about not having their property returned to them, it's the Croats.

What crime? ICTY Judgment against Milan Martic shows Slobodan Milosevic's guilt and Yugoslav People Army's involvement in the widespread war crimes. Serbs ethnically cleansed Croats, Bosniaks, and other non-Serbs from it's territory 4 years before Croatian and Bosnian Army struck back and regained forcibly taken territory. It also shows that more than 200,000 Croats and other non-Serbs were ethnically cleansed from Serb-held territories in Croatia long before Croatian and Bosnian Army attacked Serbs and regained lost territory in the Operation Storm. Croatian solider defended his own country and did not engage in war on Serbian territory. By bringing up the issue of “aggressor and the victim”, placing Serbia and Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo on the same defendant`s bench was “tasteless in relation to values of the western civilisation”. The only crime bigger than the war crime is the post war one, for which the aggressor is absolved. Let there be no doubt, Serbia is guilt as sin of the wars and massacre at Srebrenica, Vukovar...

700,000 Serbs killed in Jasenovac is simply not possible. Think about it as far as i understand Ustasha were knifing people therefore killing 700,000 would not add up in 4 years of war. Unlike Nazis, ustasha regime did not have industrial death camps therefore there were not capable of such mass murder as you are trying to suggest. The Canadian ambassador should have used a common sense before venturing in such historically inaccurate reporting of events. By doing so he is not doing anybody any good and should be told so.

Btw. Croatia today has nothing to do with Ustasha regime and unlike Serbia that has caused all the pain and suffering during 90's break up, Croatia is moving forward and is a respected member of intl. community. (e.g. non-permanent member of UN security council, member of Nato and soon member of EU)

Where is Serbia? Living in the past and insisting on lies and causing troubles even today.

The first step is to try to determine a more correct amount of Victims. The figure of 700,000 was pure partisan propaganda. Once the correct figure is determined then the two countries can approach each other.

First of all Mr. Bissett maybe you should look at the those countries who represent the 'Commonwealth'. Every nation including your beloved Canada has caused destruction, mass killings, human rights abuses to the indigenous populations. You should keep quiet when you have no idea about the balkans. Secondly Croatia was under German occupation and was never a soverign country so how could it be responsible as a country when it was occupied. The massacres at Blieuburg were also horrific but due to Serbia being under Tito and Yugoslavia the Croats also have no case. If these massacres occured under the respective Croatian and Serbian governements then yes they should be accountable. Maybe the Hungarians should've apoligised for Atila's massacres. Where does it end, it's always some foreigner who thinks he can try to influence the way we think and feel.Go Home!

James Bisset and other international cronies should keep out of the balkans and mind their own business.

Croatia and Serbia will continue to move forward without the interference of others.

By the way most comments on this topic are inaccurate.

Yes the Canadians should apologies for being a puppet of the British in WW2. Incendiaring hundreds of thousands civilians in towns of Germany with incendiary bombs. With out militarily justification as being legitimate targets. Lets not forget USA in Japan also vapourizing cities and civilians and horrible deaths of civilians from radiation and burns. I guess as victors you can sweep yore war crimes away and tell how good righteous people you are. From enslaving the world by the American/British/French and all their conspirators. To again enslaving the world in to their new world order by bankrupting the world.

It is interesting to read the comment of a typical Croat below (oops) of how Serbs are "living in the past". And yet you Croats constantly talk about Stjepan Radić, Bleiburg, UDBA, etc. Aren't you guys living in the past? I guess not when your glorious Ustasha heroes are killed.

What more to say? Well said Ambassador Bisset, as always! It's a shame that we don't hear the leaders of France and the UK demanding the same thing and simply toeing the German line. How soon they forget.

Excellent suggestion - this is exactly the kind of gesture that would go to the heart of curing the Serb-Croat conflict.
Some reasonable autonomy for Serbian Krajina (currently even saying the word gets you in trouble in Croatia), some more substantial returns of refugees and we can pretty much put the issue to rest.
I doubt Croat politicians have the guts though (even though this solution leaves Krajina as part of Croatia).
Serbs would need to lobby the Vatican/Germany directly to get this sort of thing thru. The Croatian lap dog would then follow.
Serbs haven't been good at doing that sort of thing before (pandering to foreign powers) but I sense that something along those lines may indeed now be happening.
Let's hope this is one useful dividend.

I appreciate the fact that Mr. Bisset acknowledged the other side of the story which is more than needed.
However, no apology will make victims and their families to feel better.
Personally, apology from any side involved in conflicts makes no sense to me, especially if an apology itself is not honest gesture but forced one.
I won’t feel any better after the apology from Croatia’s, Bosnia’s or Kosovo’s representatives.
Nor will any displaced person who has happened to survive horrors.
Condemnation of the committed crime during WWII and the last war in the terms of governmental declarations would make some positive step. But, of course, that would not be enough.

Nevertheless, compensation is something that we can always talk about.
Serbs should be given back everything they possessed and lost during NDH , including the last war too.
That is why I strongly support alignment (if the word is correct) of the two sides before the court.

I am sure Serbia would need to compensate something too but that would be a small thing compared to what Croatia would have to compensate in return. RSK at least would make some sense.

Thank you Mr. Bisset on your honesty and good intentions!

Biljana,

We can go at this all day if you like. No one doubts that there were innocent people killed there. The numbers run into the thousands. But we need a more accurate and truthful study. For instance supposed victims were later found alive and well. There were double and triple counts of individuals. The demographics do not make sense. Think about it and stop using this shameful event for political purposes. Where do you hide 700,000+ bodies? We need to honor the dead and not use them for nationlist purposes.

Let croatia and serbia form a joint task force let the truth be learned. Until we do there will never be understanding or peace.

According to him entire Sava and Danube river banks in Dorcol were one big graveyard filled with victims of the Ustashi attrocities…
(Jelena, UK, 6 April 2010 12:27) Yore Grandfather conveniently forgot to tell you about the Serb Četnik atrocities murders and dumping the bodies into the rivers. Like in the town of Višegrad in WW2 in the Drina region and again in the 1990s. Then again he was a Serb as usual they only see everyones elses sins not their own. What was Srpska entity built on carved out in half of Bosnia i Herzegovina Republic. Maybe on peace love tolerance ya sure all of our butchers are a shame. Those butchers give a bloody dark stain on the rest of the population that is hard to get rid of.

mario,
do your really believe that by telling the same lies over and over again that they are going to become true one day? The world is beginning to see who the Croats really are, what the 90's were all about. The US claimed and claimed there was weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, over and over again it didn't work. You Croats have the same FALSE ACCUSATORY ASSAULT mechanism that continues to fail you, look it up...it is well studied in psych. And it always shows is used to hide guilt and build a fantasy world where the truth has no value. We are raising lots of money to show the truth about what happened in Serbia, it is time for the TRUTH to come out - keep accusing, keep trying mario you look so desparate - like your entire country of Croatia begging Serbs to come to your coast.

Mike - we knew that wasn't the real Mike (unless you popped some really crazy pills lately :)

As for our Croatian/Albanian friend "Mike" - you should be ashamed of yourself, your reaction to the word "Krajina" is exactly what I am talking about - pure hysteria.

Krajina does exist (has since Austrian times) and 90% of it's population was Serbian until Croatia chose the genocide option. It is totally reasonable to refer to it as Serbian Krajina.

What is the matter with some autonomy for these poor people after all they have endured?

It's a lot less than you demand from Serbia for "Kosova".

If you had guts you would make a big gesture now while you have the upper hand, but, as I mentioned, it won't happen till the real commandants give the nod (Vatican/Germany).

It is Croatia that has never really existed as an independent country.

Is this guy a historian, politician or conspiracy theorist?

RE; Serbian Genocide

Before WWII began, the population of Serbs in the Banovina's of today Croatia was 1.9 Million Today, it is less than 75,000 if that. To hear some Croatians continue to deny this is disheartening to say the least.

Further, the Croatian Cardinals and Vatican were responsible in shielding both Ustasha and Nazi's in South America, Canada and the US. These same criminals were allowed back into Croatia to commit crimes agaain and try to create an Ustasha state. One such criminal, Father Draganovic continues to live In Canada with blood stained on this hands.

Well said Amb. Bisset. I couldn't have said it better myself and it high time Croatia own up to its dark past. The NDH pales in comparison to anything committed in the name of Serbia and the Serbian people under Milosevic and the fact that it was the most slavishly loyal Nazi puppet state in all of Europe should have been more than enough reason for Croatia to expunge all connection to that time period as soon as it declared independence.

To all, especially Matthew, the "Mike" below is not me. We have lots of people with the name Michael around here, and all go under different name variations. But just so there's no confusion that's not me.

Mike (the original)

Pfft. Canadians shouldn't talk. They've committed crimes just as bad.

Did you know that in Canada, they passed a Sexual Sterilization Act to prevent people who were mentally disabled from having children?

They expanded it to include Canadian natives and immigrants by making everyone write IQ test that were written in English. If you didn't get a good score, you were forcibly castrated.

It was only 30 years ago that they finally abolished this act.

My point is, that every country was guilty of crimes against another at some point in recent history. It is pointless to continue to bicker about these things, and we must move forward.

CROATIA must conduct a serious moral inventory of itself and promise to make amends before it can ever hope to be taken seriously as a member of the EU.
No ifs, ands or buts about it.

MB,Ireland

Good Article. I do not think that every ethnic race in the Balkans has done ethnic cleansing when they have had the power to do so.

"...Until Croatia can learn to tell the truth about its history, there should be no place for it in the European Union," he concludes..."


>>> Love this Canadians..via Lewis Mackenzie to James Bisset...they have "b...."to spit the truth!

Tibor,

Actually, partisans tried and unfortunately successfully did their best to make Jasenovac look like a “small nasty picnic that turned out to be just an orgy of perverted Ustashas“.

I don’t remember anything about Jasenovac from my history books used in schools.
Actually, it has been just shyly mentioned representing it as if it was only a naughty “orgy” leaving the facts out. I never learned at school how bestial crime against the Serbs, Jews and Romas had happened in Croatia during NDH. About Jasenovac and other scaffolds I learnt from many once forbiden sources.

Croats greatly benefited behind the “Brotherhood and Unity” and that is the fact as it is the fact too that many Ustashas became partisans at the end of the war after realising that their dream was falling apart.

Croatia lies on the pits filled with the Serbian bodies, and that is the fact buddy.

There is something for you in case you forgot it.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/5480716/Ivan-Goran-Kovacic-Jama

Kudos to Ivan Goran Kovacic

"They are receiving all their land and property back"

Mike, why is my brother in law's village a ghost town whenever I visit it then? Have you ever been to Krajina?

I think you forgot to deny that any Serbs died in Death Camps during WWII too.

Can someone tell me real difference between Serbs and Croats. Same language different religion. from history you came together to Europe ( some say from region in Iran some say from Carpat mountains).

Also if Croatia apologize i think Serbs just want this so they can say you see you did it too.

Most of us in this forum were nto born in 1945 not to say those crimes matter less, but every day I here Serbs here claiming they did not do anything wrong in Croatia, Bosnia, Kosovo.

Gotovina, Arkan they are not just some good boys they are both mass murders.

Please answer my question difference between Serbs and Croats>

@Bilbao

From Serbian point of view there is no difference, only religion.

But from Croatian point of view, they will tell you that Serbs and Croat are different. They will never admit that we are the same, just have different religion.

That is the reason why they wanted during WWII to clean Croatia of Serbs and Gypsies. Interesting point, they stoped killing muslim Gypsies after Bosnian reis ulema raise his concerns but they continued kiling Serbs and Christian gypsies.

Pravda

If the ENTIRE region REALLY wants to "bury the hatchet" then they (countries and ethnic groups) should ALL admit, condemn and apologise for their previous crimes. Once there is a bit of honesty in the region with politicians big enough to admit to previous crimes, it'll be much easier and quicker for states to move forward together into the EU.

Mario,
I do not think that there is some massive doubt hanging over the Vukovar case. However, let it also be understood that the point of the article is that the Croats were as guilty as sin over the acts commited during WWII. It is clear that the Serbian nation and peoples have been associated with the guilt of their past, it is now time for Croatia to associate it self to it's past guilts.
The fact that I hear Croatians denying, or trying to spin (via questioning official numbers) the impact of the WWII genocidal actions of the Croatian institutions, in the same way that Croatians get insulted when they hear a Serbian denying attrocities of the 90s it makes me think that Croatia has not come to terms with this act, that it's people have not accepted their pasts, and that they are in no way considering changing their stance.
It is somewhat, no very much, childish to get upset over Serbia's reluctance to extend an olive branch when living memories of Jacenovac still exist, as do those of Vukovar. However those memories of Jacenovac are older and deeper rooted. Those memories, one would figure, should be addressed prior to the most recent ones.
Eitherway, all memories of atrocities should be properly addressed. Appologies should be made, and people should accept the past and move on -- something that most can only do once they have been given the privilage of closure.

Lenard

Good points. Indeed the firebombings of German and Japanese cities by the allies was a sick warcrime. Personally, I think if Srebrenica was classified so easily as a genocide, what can one say about the hundreds of thousands of Germans and Japanese that were burned alive by all those millions of bombs dropped on their cities?

America and its entire sickening NWO is truly the greatest hypocrisy this planet has every seen. Europe is also infected and now the entire Western world is rotting under massive recession, uncontrolled immigration (who claim as high as 40% of state welfare, despite their lower representative percentage) and concept of a technological, materialistic, individualistic and stupid society.

But can anyone say anything against this? No, because that would be against the spirit of multiculturalism and political correctness.

Little Croatia must apologise for Jasenovac, but will big America apologise for Dresden, Hiroshima, Hamburg, Nagasaki or Cologne?

The quicker this world government phenomenon rots away into the darkest confines of history, the better for mankind. I only hope by then Europe and North America will not be destroyed by this credit crisis and mass immigration.

Good point, Lenard.
You've gone to the heart of the matter - selective memory!
This is exactly what I'm seeing here.
Just look at Mario's comment.
There you have it - Serbs ethnically cleansed Croats, Bosniaks, and other non-Serbs from it's territory 4 years before they were cleansed back!
"It also shows that more than 200,000 Croats and other non-Serbs were ethnically cleansed from Serb-held territories in Croatia long before Croatian and Bosnian Army attacked Serbs..."
First, no it doesn't!
At the moment of "blue helmets" arrival in early 1992 major military operations were over. UNHCR have registered 180.000 Croats and non-Serbs displaced (expelled or moved out of the battle zone by themselves) from Serb controlled territory. Not 200.000.
As you seem to have selective memory, same document had 280.000 Serbs and non-Croats displaced (expelled or moved out of the battle zone by themselves) from Croat controlled territory.
"Let there be no doubt, Serbia is guilt as sin of the wars and massacre at Srebrenica, Vukovar..."

There is no Croatian guilt and massacres in Vukovar?
Here is a nice article from your own Croatian newspapers Split-based Feral Tribune

http://www.ex-yupress.com/feral/feral193.html

"Danube carries something" is the title, so Jelena, UK , we don't have to go to WW2 for memories similar to your grandfather's.
Article is about investigation of the events from July and August of 1991, when the town was under absolute rule of Tomislav Mercep and JNA wasn't even close, it only came to Vukovar in late September of that year.

According to Ferdinand Jukic former SZUP agent (Croatian police) in Vukovar, Tomislav Mercep kept more than a hundred Serbs in the cellar of the Territorial Defense building, where Mercep's headquarters were located. Most of those Serbs later "disappeared".

Corpses were thrown into Danube and some of them "floated all the way to Sremska Mitrovica and Novi Sad, where they were buried."

Jukic is still willing to testify, but appearantly nobody cares.

But, Jukic is not alone.

"Sasa Lalic, the head of the Vukovar office of the Croatian Helsinki Center for Human Rights, says for Feral that evidence and individual testimonies indicate that Serbs from Vukovar were not murdered randomly, but that there must have been a premeditated plan and lists of people who were supposed to be captured and then executed. Mostly distinguished, respected or wealthy Serbs were chosen. "

"Between April 15 and July 30 1991, numerous Serb houses were blown up, as well as cafes "Krajisnik", "Sarajka", "Tufo", "Brdo", "Mali Raj", "Popaj", "Tocak", "Cokot bar", and "Sid", and dry cleaning businesses owned by Serbs."

Between April 15 and July 30!!!???
When did JNA arrive - Sep 20, right?

So, who blew those "numerous Serb houses"?
We don't know.
But, we know this.

"However, it appears that Mercep forgets that in September 1990, long before any indication of the "log revolution" [Serb rebellion] in Croatia, precisely he requested from Branimir Glavas "50 kilograms of salami and as many detonators as possible". This request was written on a piece of notebook paper and still exists. Glavas had before delivered 100kg [220lb] of Vitezit 60 [plastic explosive], also known as "salami". There must have been more deliveries because in October 1990 Glavas took another 500kg [1200lb] of Vitezit 60, ten meters of slowly burning fuse, thousand meters of detonation fuse, and 200 detonators from the Orahovac quarry."

I will have to stress worlds "long before any indication of the "log revolution" [Serb rebellion] in Croatia".

LONG BEFORE.
Yet, according to "oops" Serbia and Serbs "caused all the pain and suffering during 90's break up"
Do you think that they placed the logs on the roads, and organized watches to stop those "pacifists and democrats" from coming to blow up their homes, or they were into causing pain and suffering?

(Croatian Helsinki Committee for Human Rights issued report in 1992 documenting more then 10.000 Serb homes blown in Zagreb and Karlovac areas only, by the way-not destroyed as part of any military operation).

Just Helsinki and Jukic? Not at all.

Marin Vidic Bili, envoy of the Croatian government for the Vukovar municipality, on August 18 sent a dramatic letter in which he described the situation in Vukovar.

"However, the Croatian state leadership, and even the former opposition leaders, later coalition partners [current Prime Minister] Ivica Racan and [HSLS leader] Drazen Budisa, were aware of what was going on in Vukovar at the time, while Mercep's groups illegally broke into Serb apartments in the town, looted, illegally confiscated cars and trucks, blew up houses and cafes, took into custody and murdered..."

Letter was also sent to " president Tudman and Prime Minister Greguric, as well as to the ministers of defense and internal affairs (Police)"

Entire Croatian leadership, including Tudman was aware of the events in Vukovar!!!

So, what did they do? Did they try to stop him?

"However, in Zagreb, although the state leadership was informed about his actions in Vukovar, Mercep was not prosecuted. On the contrary, he was appointed for the advisor of the then Minister of Internal Affairs (Police) Ivan Vekic."

He was promoted!!

As a police advisor he continued to leave a bloody trail behind, Pakracka Poljana, Gospic, etc.

Here is an interview with Miro Bajramovic, one of Mercep's men, who decided to "spill the beans".
Warning!
Do not read the link if you are sensitive!

http://digilander.libero.it/lajugoslaviavivra/CRJ/DOCS/bajeng.html

I don't know what happened to Mercep. Where is he today? He was never charged with anyting, I know that. Is he still member of Croatian parliament?

Back to subject.
In his letter to Tudman Marin Vidic Bili warns that such Mercep's activities are creating "psychotic fear among local Croats and Serbs, which has prompted many to leave the town".

And such activities by other "Merceps" have prompted 280.000 to leave Croatian controlled territory by the end of 1991.

Come on, people. Get serious. On May 2, 1991 hundreds of Serb homes were torched in Zadar and Sibenik in a single night. First such mass occurance in former Yugoslavia.
In October 1991 Croatian authorities issued an order giving all ethnic Serbs in Slavonska Pozega and Western Slavonia 48 hours to leave. It was broadcasted on local radio stations, and printed in local newspapers.
Local Serbs were not near Krajina, they were not rebellious, nor they demanded anything (they were 25% - 30% of population in the area). Autorities tried to justify the move by need to "secure depth of Croatian territory of potential threats."
40.000 people moved out in fear, leaving villages empty. Croatian Army moved in, killing all that were left behind (mostly elderly with nowhere to go), then burnt houses, churches...
How is an empty house or church "threat to depth of Croatian territory"???
It was a first case of massive ethnic cleansing in former Yugoslavia. For the first time we've seen columns of refugees on farm tractors, etc.

I could go on, but it's long enough as it is.
Forget WW2. You people don't think that you have anything to apologize for now?

Prior to this Resolution passed by Serbian parliament just week ago, Tadic personally and in public apologized to Croats, Muslims in Bosnia, and Albanians for everything wrong that Serbs have done to them.
Nobody thought that they should issue an apology to Serbs for their own wrong-doing.

That's because they've never done anything wrong, especially to us, it seems.

Oops

What they lacked in ‘industrialness’ they substituted with sheer bestiality of the kind unknown even to Nazi officers.

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/othercamps/jasenovac.html

My grandfather told me stories about corpses drifting down the Sava River every day during the war, and of the entire wedding butchered and connected with barb wires that got stuck on the Sava Bridge in Belgrade. According to him entire Sava and Danube river banks in Dorcol were one big graveyard filled with victims of the Ustashi attrocities…

A long road lies ahead of Serbia to join EU membership : it is likely to take at least four years before its hand extends to Serbia. But a solemn promise has been made to Croatia, as being on track, to join EU in a year or two. But the candidate has not made any atonement for the atrocities having inflicted to Serbs in the World War Two. The independent State of Croatia committed the genocide against Serbs in the World War Two, when about seven hundred thousand Serbs were killed . There is a lot of evidence to substantiate this claim. Even the German senior military officials affirmed that Ustasha’s troops committed atrocious crimes . The International Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, also known as the Genocide Convention did not affect Croatia, though, under the international law ,crimes committed in the 20th century cannot be annuled. During World War I (1914-1918), the government of the Ottoman Empire committed genocide to million to 1.8 million Armenian citizens in eastern Anatolia. These events have been affirmed and comdemned as genocide by the European Parliament and more than ten countries—including Vatican. Nazi Germany committed systematic genocide during World War II,which resulted in deaths of an estimated 5 to 6 million Jews, about 500,000 Roma, and millions of other people considered undesirable in German territory. It was condemned by countries worldwide. The independent state of Croatia committed genocide during World War II, killing an estimated 600,000 to 700,000 Serbian citizens. No resolution on that crime has ever been passed . No widespread international condemnation has been passed. Croats are being lulled into believing that no burden of the infamous past will ever come into broad daylight.







This act provided a legal definition of genocide and established genocide as a crime under international law. According to the Genocide Convention, crimes committed in the 20th century cannot be annuled. During World War I (1914-1918), the
As for the Croation lawsuit submitted to the ICJ indicting Serbia for genocide in the war period 1991-95., Serbia responded with countersuit,indicting Croatia for ethnic cleansing of Serbs in military operations’’ Blijesak’’ and’’ Oluja’’in the same war period. Chances are slim for either country. In the former Bosnian suit, Serbia was indicted for committing genocide in that teritory ,but as it could not be substantiated, the ICJ ruling was that Serbia did not participate in genocide. War crimes and great damages were inflicted by all war-waging ethnic groups in Croatia,but they are not supposed to be genocide. On the other hand, if Croatia does not back down and drop the charges against Serbia, Serbia has strong’’ trump’’ to prove that Croatia really committed genocide against Serbs in the World War Two, when about seven hundred thousand Serbs were killed . There is a lot of evidence to substantiate this claim. Recently we have heard a lot of speculations by Croation officials, especially by ’’wisecracking’’ President Mesic that Serbia is not able to substantiate its lawsuit. He keeps on demonizing Serbian policy in the region. If either side toned down speech ,they might reach settlement and drop

"The former ambassador also notes that the estimates "vary between 300,000 and 700,000 victims were murdered by Croatian fascists during the war".

He's talking about WW2 Croatia, not about Jasenovac alone.

Izrael's Yad Vashem, and its Shoah Resource Center, The International School for Holocaust Studies are considered authority in the field, due to thorough research they've done in the past. Their figure is 30.000 Jews, but also:

"More then 500.000 Serbs were murdered in horribly sadistic ways, 250.000 were expelled and another 200.000 were forced to convert to Catholicism."

http://www1.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%205930.pdf

Other estimates vary due to lack of accurate records and the methods used for making estimates.

German generals issued reports of the number of victims as the war progressed. German military commanders gave different figures for the number of Serbs, Jews and others killed on the territory of the Independent State of Croatia.

They circulated figures of 400,000 Serbs (Alexander Löhr); 350,000 Serbs (Lothar Rendulic); around 300,000 (Edmund Glaise von Horstenau); in 1943; "600-700,000 until March 1944" (Ernst Fick); 700,000 (Massenbach).

Hermann Neubacher calculated:
"When prominent Ustasha leaders claimed that they slaughtered a million Serbs, that is, in my opinion, a boastful exaggeration. On the basis of the reports submitted to me, I believe that the number of victims to be three quarters of a million."
He was also suspicious "that the Ustaše were more concerned with the elimination of Serbs than Jews devoting too many resources to it."

Tibor, I can agree with you that joint task force would be a good idea. But, you shouldn't be assuming that this is all just partisan propaganda.

Now to "oops"

"Croatia today has nothing to do with Ustasha regime and unlike Serbia that has caused all the pain and suffering during 90's break up"

And Serbia today doesn't have anything to do with Milosevic's regime, so I guess recent parliamentary apology for Srebrenica wasn't necessary?
Why not simply say "we had nothing to do with it"?
Are you sure that Serbia caused all the pain and suffering during 90's break up?
There are those who think differently.

@Dino

But you are Catholic? That is the answer.

Mike (the original), so clearly NOT you, the other Mike clearly lacks your sense of humor.

“Unlike Nazis, ustasha regime did not have industrial death camps therefore there were not capable of such mass murder as you are trying to suggest (oops, 5 April 2010 22:08)”

I do believe the record for slitting throats in one night by one Ustasha was 1200, so yes, it was possible. They would also wrap barb wire around groups of people and push them off cliffs and stuff.

If you visit Jasenovac, you can see the mounds where the bodies are buried. The Croatian government refuses to allow investigations into the WWII crimes.

As a Croat Of Serb ancestry I must say that my family who have lived in Dalmatia for a very long time and who are Catholics have never expirenced this hatred. We are still there and noone ever came to our house and told us that we weren't Croats and that we had to leave. We enjoy full citizenship and own land and a home there. Maybe it is really not about race but about your attitude and poltics??

America and its entire sickening NWO is truly the greatest hypocrisy this planet has every seen
Peter Sudyka, 6 April 2010 14:43)
Not planet but universe .At least Darth Veder did not pretend to be good.

Anybody responsible for warcrimes must apologise for them. End of story.
(Peter Sudyka)
-
Either we ALL apoligise to each other, or we just bury the past and move on with our lives like nothing ever happened, end of story.

trudsaam and szemi

Well said!

Srbenda, So it's just because I'm Catholic then. I'm not to sure about that. Most of the comments here seem to focus on race. Croats think that they are Nordics Serbs are happy being Slavs. I myself am the typical beautiful Dinaric sub type. I have golden skin tall and muscular. I do standout when I am in the middle of Zagreb Croats. Do you think that they whisper about me? LOL
Listen for the both of you to be killing each other over a foreign relgion is pathetic.
There are others Serbs that come to visit freinds and relatives here in my part of Dalmatia and I can tell you that they are not harrassed. Maybe it is beacuse these people are known from the past as good people.

Thank you Mr. Bisset. If I may add, along with the apology, that is at the very least expected, there should be retribution as well. Croatia is expected to relinquish territory. The same is expected of B&H and Albania as well. This should be expected of all those who have committed atrocities in the name of their nation and based on the amount of cruelty and damage that has been committed. I believe that all the current ex-Yugoslav political entities are aware of the consequences related to the crimes. This is primarily why the decendants of the Ustashi & Communist regimes only use the treat of a law suit in order to continue the cover up of the connection the two regimes had and continue to have to this very day.

I have faith that President Tadic is a wise man and shall act accordingly regarding the issue of genocide committed against his people in WWII and the latter half of the 20th century. It is in the interest of all ex-Yugoslav peoples that this issue be put to rest...but, not with out retribution.

This name James Bisset might be popular in Serbia but not in Canada or US. He could very well say same thing about Albanians which would be ridiculous!. Ancient Dalmatia is an Illyrian pride, even President Mesic said that in Tirana didn't he?.
As an Albanian with roots from what is today southern Montenegro I gotta tell you that one of my best friends Croat from southern Dalmatia(Dubrovnik or ancient Ragusha)area and I look a lot the same, pretty much same face features. No wonder my friend has been mistaken for an Albanian many times.

Unfortunately, EU is not so pragmatic. Both Czech Republic and Slovakia are full members, and unscrupulously and shamefully keeping alive laws (Benes Decrees) which collectively condemned all Germans and Hungarians for war crimes (the old and infants included), stripped off their citizenship and deported them by the millions. How about a little ups, sorry for that??? No, instead they have the nerve to be in the counter offensive and explaining that these pieces of legislatons are essential and they are the "basis"of their statehood. Amazing!

I myself am the typical beautiful Dinaric sub type. I have golden skin tall and muscular.
(Dino, 7 April 2010 17:24)

Me to mate. I just have dark hair. Maybe we are distant cousins;-)

I dont look Slav at all, more Italian, but too tall to be Italian. I am prettier version of Zlatan Ibrahimovic lol.

In general Dinaric people look the same, does not matter if they are from Dalmatia, Hercegovina, Montenegro or West Serbia where I am from. Only what separates us is religion, unfortunately.

It was our csar Dusan who decided that Serbs can not be Catholics. They were so many Serbs Catholics around Dubrovnik

Serbs and Croats are NOT different from each other. The ONLY thing we should all agree on is that WE all simultaneously fell for the same trick.

Because of this we have been fooled into thiking we are different. So please brothers and sisters it is TIME to wake UP... Dreading on the past will not solve anything, only awaken hate/fear/sorrow... we need to understand this.

We are on the verge of a re-unification, NOT politically (which in fact they are trying to prevent) but genetically. We are drawn to each because we are in fact the SAME people... good day :)

Anybody responsible for warcrimes must apologise for them. End of story.

Lenard,
What my grandfather told me was what he himself witnessed in Belgrade during WW2. Has he lived in Visegrad, he would have been able to tell me what happened there, I am sure. Also, Belgrade was quite a multicultural city even then, so what makes you feel certain that he was a Serb, and therefore biased?
The point I wanted to make was, that the scale of atrocities committed was such that it was felt all the way till Belgrade and if you are feeling offended by it there is nothing I can (or want to) do about it.