"Declaration represents distancing from crimes"

Now it would be good if He as a President offer his salary to pay the Muslims after all.. This was a step toward Muslims and three steps away from RS Serbs... "Clever". What's next? Will you pass "the red line" Mr.President? "Good luck" to you, also!

“There was no pressure from any international organization or institution to adopt the resolution for Srebrenica. It was our decision, the decision of the Serbian people. Serbia does this for itself,” Tadić said.'

Liar. Did your western advisers tell you to say that too, Boris? They probably wrote it for you, word for word. There was HUGE pressure to place false accusations on Serbs and rewrite history here. Tadic and his yellows are looking more and more like a joke.

Bgannon said:

"So predictions of the end of Tadic and DS are completely wide of the mark. The population of Serbia are not nearly as nationalist as they are potrayed (either here or by the international media)."

=====================

Why are people portrayed as nationalists if they defend their interests in Serbia?
Look at Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo. People over there are much more nationalistic and yes even racist and nobody seems to mind or condemn them.
I seriously doubt that Croats are being portrayed as nationalists and yet they are far more nationalistic than the Serbs.

There is nothing wrong with having pride in your country and defending it's interests with passion. If we don't become "nationalistic" a bit more over there we will be seen as a soft target. Without a healthy amount of nationalism there is no respect.

Just wondering, do you regard nationalism as something unhealthy?
I am not trying to badger you in any way. I am not getting sense of how you feel about this from what you wrote.

Nope !!!

"Declaration" represents your and your party political suicide and end of your cheap political marketing which pretends that protects Kosovo and...but instead sells all Serbia's national interests, including our Republika Srpska and our Serbs there, per wishes and for "fist full of dollars" from your political bosses from Kneza Miloša street.

But not for very much long anymore, that is very much sure now!!!

Defending your interests is not nationalism Peggy. Nationalism has its own defition. There is no evidence showing that nationalism (nationalists) defend their countries interests any better than non nationalists. In fact if you look at the evidence of the European example at least, governments that are centerist or leftist have had the greatest success in most areas.

Having pride in your country is not nationalism, there are those that are proud of their country who are not nationalists and again those people would argue that they are every bit as good at defending their countries interest.

Of course there is respect for non nationalists, how can you say that? One of the people I respect most (imprisoned in Goli Otok by Tito) would likely describe himself as an anarchist. Of course hooligan nationalists would not spit on him if he was on fire, but the educated (academics, intellectuals, all strains of educated - nationalist and non nationalist political thinking) they all respect him. I've seen the way they behave with him myself.

Equally there are many nationalists (ie Seselj) who I don't have respect for. I respect him for being a clever political operator. No, I correct myself, he isn't a true nationalist, that probably one of the reasons why I don't respect him. But I have a healthy respect for principled nationalists.

You see one of the real things people gain respect for is having the courage of their convictions - whether they are socialist, communist, nationalist, democrat etc. Obviously nazis are beyond help and don't count in this.

Nationalism I regard with scepticism because this concept is a gift for manipulative politicians. Time and time again they have used the guise of nationalism and nationalists have fallen for this trick. Their cynical 'radar' stops operating because they want to believe something.

And this is what I see again when people talk about the end of this and that because this and that happened. I mean do people forget how many times they were wrong before. Do they ever self reflect?

Actually it only confirms that which everyone living outside of Serbia already knew that Serbia could have prevented the genocide from taking place and didn't. It confirms Serbia's partial responsibility for the crime and as such clearly shows that Serbia was a nation that sponsored the Bosnian Genocide.
(FairPlay, 31 March 2010 18:18)

You know that? Do you have any proof of what you say?

I saw interview with journalist which was interviewing Mladic after Srebrenica. It just happened few days after crime. While journalist was interviewing Mladic, Milosevic called gen Mladic on the phone and it was really angry and shouting loudly at gen Mladic over the phone regarding Srebrenica massacre. Mladic told him to find somebody else on which he can shout and disconnected the call.

I don't think that anybody from Serbian government in Belgrade knew what will happen in Srebrenica, not even Karadzic. It was stupid, spontanious reaction to crimes committed by bosnian forces around Srebrenica.

Did you know that Naser Oric and his fighters were ordered from Sarajevo to continue with attacks on Serbian villages hoping that they will provoke Serbs to enter Srebrenica. Americans promised to Alija Izetbegovic that they will bomb Serbs if 5000 people are killed in Srebrenica. This is well known fact even in Bosnia, writen in Bosnian newspapers.

Suddenly few months before Srebrenica massacre, Naser Oric left Srebrenica. When Bosnian Serb forces entered Srebrenica, many of them were really angry as they have lost members of their families in villages around Srebrenica. They took justice in their own hands. It was wrong thing to do. The people of Srebrenica were sacrificed by their government in Sarajevo. However, this does not minimize crime committed by Bosnian Serb forces.

To be honest I can't see what the fuss is about.

We have so many parliamentary resolutions going through these days, some of them are completely worthless.

What happened in Srebrenica happened, regardless of this decleration. Neither has it any legal ramifications, nor will it cause upheaval in the sense that the word 'genocide' would have on Serbian society. Life goes on as normal, almost as if nothing happened.

For me its just a recognition that a war crime took place in Srebrenica, I don't think anybody denies that these days, its usually the numbers or the G word that people argue about.

So predictions of the end of Tadic and DS are completely wide of the mark. The population of Serbia are not nearly as nationalist as they are potrayed (either here or by the international media).

The evidence will come at the next elections, where I think that this issue will barely even be raised or thought of by people.

Instead people will vote for their usual parties and on usual issues - unless of course a big national issue cropped up (Kosovo, or the arrest of Mladic) - although you can be sure that the governing coaltion would never allow an election to be held in such an atmosphere.

How many times do people scream this and predict revolution and yet things go on as usual.

I would appreciate if those 20 or so individuals who mysteriously voted in the space of an hour or two could let me know what part of my post they disagree with and provide evidence that my opinion is wrong.

Of course I don't really expect a reply, because 20 votes is more likely to be 20 different IP addresses and only really 4 or 5 people.

Shame that can't be done in a real election, eh guys?

Actually it only confirms that which everyone living outside of Serbia already knew that Serbia could have prevented the genocide from taking place and didn't. It confirms Serbia's partial responsibility for the crime and as such clearly shows that Serbia was a nation that sponsored the Bosnian Genocide. The resolution is not acceptable in its current form (it does not use genocide to describe the crime) but it is a first step forward. I hope that Serbia amends the resolution so that it calls the crime by its proper name until that is done and Mladic is arrested it is little more then a worthless piece of paper.

How many times do people scream this and predict revolution and yet things go on as usual.
(bganon, 31 March 2010 23:42)


What's "usual" for Serbia?

Bganon, I have some sympathy for your writings and opinions but I cannot find implementation point at all.

(I tried)

It's a pointless, nothing else.

I have been a long term reader of this forum, as my wife is Serbian and I now have a very real interest in the Serbian people.

There are many people who I respect in general their opinions, but I cannot understand the "yellow" taunts at Tadic and his team.

Everybody on here calls for all people in the Balkans to stand up and take account for the different things they have done.

Its false nationalistic pride which stops that from happening.

I believe the Serbian people should feel the proudest, as their government has sought to be the first to stand up and condemn a crime committed. It is not the only crime committed - there are many others, by all nationalities.

Now it is up to the others to do the same.

Bganon has hit the nail on the head in his informative posts. We know there is a murky, opportunistic spin on Srebrenica, which has been used to destabilise Serbia for years (there is plenty of information which has been linked on these forums to back that comment up).

Serbia has now stood and took that opportunity away.

I say bravo Serbia. The strong are able to say sorry. The weak hide and make excuses.

ZMAJ I know it is, but they obviously don't think so!

By the way, I was answering Peggy's question. If you want to see context you must read her questions / claims to me, which I answered.

Not much philosophy there really. But I enjoy reading your opinions, although sometimes I feel like I should shout 'hey, no, you have it wrong'. But yeah, there is a respect there, although I have very little respect for some who post on this site.

Where people go wrong, in my humble opinion, is tolerating fools, simply because they have the same beliefs.

Bganon,

It's my fault I comment something without time to explain..

But at least this..

"To be honest I can't see what the fuss is about"

Bganon, you say there's many declarations those days- some of those completely worthless and you're "out" here- totally.

Worthless, disrespectful, irritating, undermining, destructive, self-destructive and naive, at least.

Personally I am angry.

This declaration is offensive to the families of victims, first of all.. I'm BTW not worried about that but about our relationship with RS-Serbs which oppose any Serbia's position "for now" as such.

This was not "worthless" but a big stupidity and will cost us VERY much and I do not see much "usual" as you say but rather turbulent future of this INCIDENT.

You cannot just put the finger in someone's wound and press saying sorry "in the house" where your brother "lives" and, even, not to listen your brother's advice at all.

Nothing will be as usual.

PS. Of course it exist respect AND interest otherwise I'd not waste my time to "ping" here. You're OK guy- definitely but sometimes I think you're too deep in your personal world (not bad) but not the real one. I would not call that utopia- maybe desired future (I'm sharing your positions) but. still, not reality.

The damage is done and that's why it exist "fuss about".

Actually it only confirms that which everyone living outside of Serbia already knew that Serbia could have prevented the genocide from taking place and didn't. It confirms Serbia's partial responsibility for the crime and as such clearly shows that Serbia was a nation that sponsored the Bosnian Genocide. The resolution is not acceptable in its current form (it does not use genocide to describe the crime) but it is a first step forward. I hope that Serbia amends the resolution so that it calls the crime by its proper name until that is done and Mladic is arrested it is little more then a worthless piece of paper.

To be honest I can't see what the fuss is about.

We have so many parliamentary resolutions going through these days, some of them are completely worthless.

What happened in Srebrenica happened, regardless of this decleration. Neither has it any legal ramifications, nor will it cause upheaval in the sense that the word 'genocide' would have on Serbian society. Life goes on as normal, almost as if nothing happened.

For me its just a recognition that a war crime took place in Srebrenica, I don't think anybody denies that these days, its usually the numbers or the G word that people argue about.

So predictions of the end of Tadic and DS are completely wide of the mark. The population of Serbia are not nearly as nationalist as they are potrayed (either here or by the international media).

The evidence will come at the next elections, where I think that this issue will barely even be raised or thought of by people.

Instead people will vote for their usual parties and on usual issues - unless of course a big national issue cropped up (Kosovo, or the arrest of Mladic) - although you can be sure that the governing coaltion would never allow an election to be held in such an atmosphere.

How many times do people scream this and predict revolution and yet things go on as usual.

I have been a long term reader of this forum, as my wife is Serbian and I now have a very real interest in the Serbian people.

There are many people who I respect in general their opinions, but I cannot understand the "yellow" taunts at Tadic and his team.

Everybody on here calls for all people in the Balkans to stand up and take account for the different things they have done.

Its false nationalistic pride which stops that from happening.

I believe the Serbian people should feel the proudest, as their government has sought to be the first to stand up and condemn a crime committed. It is not the only crime committed - there are many others, by all nationalities.

Now it is up to the others to do the same.

Bganon has hit the nail on the head in his informative posts. We know there is a murky, opportunistic spin on Srebrenica, which has been used to destabilise Serbia for years (there is plenty of information which has been linked on these forums to back that comment up).

Serbia has now stood and took that opportunity away.

I say bravo Serbia. The strong are able to say sorry. The weak hide and make excuses.

Defending your interests is not nationalism Peggy. Nationalism has its own defition. There is no evidence showing that nationalism (nationalists) defend their countries interests any better than non nationalists. In fact if you look at the evidence of the European example at least, governments that are centerist or leftist have had the greatest success in most areas.

Having pride in your country is not nationalism, there are those that are proud of their country who are not nationalists and again those people would argue that they are every bit as good at defending their countries interest.

Of course there is respect for non nationalists, how can you say that? One of the people I respect most (imprisoned in Goli Otok by Tito) would likely describe himself as an anarchist. Of course hooligan nationalists would not spit on him if he was on fire, but the educated (academics, intellectuals, all strains of educated - nationalist and non nationalist political thinking) they all respect him. I've seen the way they behave with him myself.

Equally there are many nationalists (ie Seselj) who I don't have respect for. I respect him for being a clever political operator. No, I correct myself, he isn't a true nationalist, that probably one of the reasons why I don't respect him. But I have a healthy respect for principled nationalists.

You see one of the real things people gain respect for is having the courage of their convictions - whether they are socialist, communist, nationalist, democrat etc. Obviously nazis are beyond help and don't count in this.

Nationalism I regard with scepticism because this concept is a gift for manipulative politicians. Time and time again they have used the guise of nationalism and nationalists have fallen for this trick. Their cynical 'radar' stops operating because they want to believe something.

And this is what I see again when people talk about the end of this and that because this and that happened. I mean do people forget how many times they were wrong before. Do they ever self reflect?

“There was no pressure from any international organization or institution to adopt the resolution for Srebrenica. It was our decision, the decision of the Serbian people. Serbia does this for itself,” Tadić said.'

Liar. Did your western advisers tell you to say that too, Boris? They probably wrote it for you, word for word. There was HUGE pressure to place false accusations on Serbs and rewrite history here. Tadic and his yellows are looking more and more like a joke.

Now it would be good if He as a President offer his salary to pay the Muslims after all.. This was a step toward Muslims and three steps away from RS Serbs... "Clever". What's next? Will you pass "the red line" Mr.President? "Good luck" to you, also!

Nope !!!

"Declaration" represents your and your party political suicide and end of your cheap political marketing which pretends that protects Kosovo and...but instead sells all Serbia's national interests, including our Republika Srpska and our Serbs there, per wishes and for "fist full of dollars" from your political bosses from Kneza Miloša street.

But not for very much long anymore, that is very much sure now!!!

Actually it only confirms that which everyone living outside of Serbia already knew that Serbia could have prevented the genocide from taking place and didn't. It confirms Serbia's partial responsibility for the crime and as such clearly shows that Serbia was a nation that sponsored the Bosnian Genocide.
(FairPlay, 31 March 2010 18:18)

You know that? Do you have any proof of what you say?

I saw interview with journalist which was interviewing Mladic after Srebrenica. It just happened few days after crime. While journalist was interviewing Mladic, Milosevic called gen Mladic on the phone and it was really angry and shouting loudly at gen Mladic over the phone regarding Srebrenica massacre. Mladic told him to find somebody else on which he can shout and disconnected the call.

I don't think that anybody from Serbian government in Belgrade knew what will happen in Srebrenica, not even Karadzic. It was stupid, spontanious reaction to crimes committed by bosnian forces around Srebrenica.

Did you know that Naser Oric and his fighters were ordered from Sarajevo to continue with attacks on Serbian villages hoping that they will provoke Serbs to enter Srebrenica. Americans promised to Alija Izetbegovic that they will bomb Serbs if 5000 people are killed in Srebrenica. This is well known fact even in Bosnia, writen in Bosnian newspapers.

Suddenly few months before Srebrenica massacre, Naser Oric left Srebrenica. When Bosnian Serb forces entered Srebrenica, many of them were really angry as they have lost members of their families in villages around Srebrenica. They took justice in their own hands. It was wrong thing to do. The people of Srebrenica were sacrificed by their government in Sarajevo. However, this does not minimize crime committed by Bosnian Serb forces.

I would appreciate if those 20 or so individuals who mysteriously voted in the space of an hour or two could let me know what part of my post they disagree with and provide evidence that my opinion is wrong.

Of course I don't really expect a reply, because 20 votes is more likely to be 20 different IP addresses and only really 4 or 5 people.

Shame that can't be done in a real election, eh guys?

How many times do people scream this and predict revolution and yet things go on as usual.
(bganon, 31 March 2010 23:42)


What's "usual" for Serbia?

Bganon, I have some sympathy for your writings and opinions but I cannot find implementation point at all.

(I tried)

Bgannon said:

"So predictions of the end of Tadic and DS are completely wide of the mark. The population of Serbia are not nearly as nationalist as they are potrayed (either here or by the international media)."

=====================

Why are people portrayed as nationalists if they defend their interests in Serbia?
Look at Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo. People over there are much more nationalistic and yes even racist and nobody seems to mind or condemn them.
I seriously doubt that Croats are being portrayed as nationalists and yet they are far more nationalistic than the Serbs.

There is nothing wrong with having pride in your country and defending it's interests with passion. If we don't become "nationalistic" a bit more over there we will be seen as a soft target. Without a healthy amount of nationalism there is no respect.

Just wondering, do you regard nationalism as something unhealthy?
I am not trying to badger you in any way. I am not getting sense of how you feel about this from what you wrote.

It's a pointless, nothing else.

ZMAJ I know it is, but they obviously don't think so!

By the way, I was answering Peggy's question. If you want to see context you must read her questions / claims to me, which I answered.

Not much philosophy there really. But I enjoy reading your opinions, although sometimes I feel like I should shout 'hey, no, you have it wrong'. But yeah, there is a respect there, although I have very little respect for some who post on this site.

Where people go wrong, in my humble opinion, is tolerating fools, simply because they have the same beliefs.

Bganon,

It's my fault I comment something without time to explain..

But at least this..

"To be honest I can't see what the fuss is about"

Bganon, you say there's many declarations those days- some of those completely worthless and you're "out" here- totally.

Worthless, disrespectful, irritating, undermining, destructive, self-destructive and naive, at least.

Personally I am angry.

This declaration is offensive to the families of victims, first of all.. I'm BTW not worried about that but about our relationship with RS-Serbs which oppose any Serbia's position "for now" as such.

This was not "worthless" but a big stupidity and will cost us VERY much and I do not see much "usual" as you say but rather turbulent future of this INCIDENT.

You cannot just put the finger in someone's wound and press saying sorry "in the house" where your brother "lives" and, even, not to listen your brother's advice at all.

Nothing will be as usual.

PS. Of course it exist respect AND interest otherwise I'd not waste my time to "ping" here. You're OK guy- definitely but sometimes I think you're too deep in your personal world (not bad) but not the real one. I would not call that utopia- maybe desired future (I'm sharing your positions) but. still, not reality.

The damage is done and that's why it exist "fuss about".