SRS to propose genocide resolution

The reason why there is a memorial at Jasenovac today is because the project was driven through by a Croatian partisan, General Ivan Gosnjak, who was a leading figure in the Yugoslav resistance throughout the war. That there were many decent, anti-fascist Croats is beyond question - we should be asking instead why they appear to be less celebrated in croatia today than the NDH nazis.

Say what you want about the SRS - but they are spot on about this one.
Time has come to throw the spotlight on Croatia and it's continuing "wink and a nod" attitude to it's facist past and present.
Numbers speak for themselves, from Wiki, % of Serbs in Croatia
1931 - 18.45%
2001 - 4.54%
That's 3/4 gone within living memory... and it is still going on.
If that isn't genocide - what is?
Ignoring this issue just makes the Croats grow bolder.

Good call by SRS! it's a shame back-room deals compromise these initiatives at admitting REAL genocide while Serbia has to condemn the POW massacre in Srebrenica.

Politics as usual they forgot to mention Croatian anti fascist resisters fighters also. Of the 80 partisan divisions 37 were made of Croatians in WW2. Thats close to 50% of the resistance when Croatians only made 25% of Yugoslavia population at that time lets not forget Tito Croatian.
(Lenard, 27 March 2010 17:23

Just how many Croatians were in the old pre-WW2 Yugoslavia??? You guys had the largest number of war criminals (600 Franciscan Friars alone), had 100 000 (according to Croatians) executed in Austrai and now you had the largest number of Partisans!!!!
In the past when I was asked by people how many Croats lived in the old Yugo, I started with saying there were 25 million people living in that country but 35 million were Croats.
As far as Tito being a Croat there are very big doubts about that fact. My father was in Kosovo in 1948 in the army when Tito visited and gave several speeches and this man could barely speak Serbo Croatian.

This is absolute must being followed by claims for WWII reparations from Croatia, Germany...

Lenard, you clearly do not know WWII history very well. For most of the war the Partizans were a Serbian-Montenegrin. Some 90% of the upper staff were Serbs or Montenegrins. Croatians only started joining the Partizans in 1944, when it was apparent that they would lose. Many just deflected from the Ustasha.

The Radicals are busy these days with their parliamentary activities...

Politics as usual they forgot to mention Croatian anti fascist resisters fighters also. Of the 80 partisan divisions 37 were made of Croatians in WW2. Thats close to 50% of the resistance when Croatians only made 25% of Yugoslavia population at that time lets not forget Tito Croatian.

Radicals at their best! They should better rename themselves to "ridiculs" ;-)

(Lenard, 27 March 2010 17:23
In 1948 Tito was in Kosovo to visit the army not the local population. He gave four speeches to the military not the local population.
As my father was a border guard his unit was given the task of providing security to the Tito visit and my father stood 3 feet from this man at all formal occasions. This man was not able to speak properly either Serbian or as you call it, Croatian/Alba.

(trudsaam, 28 March 2010 04:54
Yes there are a lot of rumors but my favorite one is that during Tito’s entire presidency, from 1945 to 1980, he never once visited his mother during her life time in the village of his birth. Funny isn’t it? For a man that was an absolute ruler he never paid a visit to good old mum.
Here is another one for you. When Tito’s mother saw her son on TV in the local village hall she was quoted as saying “that’s not my son”. In fact she made that statement in front of a senior minister in Tito’s cabinet who had presented the TV as a gift to the village. Mum passed away several days later from a stroke.

This isn't the best time, if at all, to be doing this kind of thing, especially as Serbia and Croatia now seem to be developing their relationship.

This is really unecessary, as individuals we can all take time to learn about the atrocities done by both sides. Why waste so much time trying to come up with resolutions such as this?

As nations Serbia, Bosnia and Croatia have a lot more to worry about. I think all sides should just drop it. We can all agree on ONE thing, the war was a devastation and self-destructive. Lets us learn from THAT point alone, so we can learn, and prosper once again together.

We have hit a moment in time, where we are now able to have open dialogue with one another, why ruin this by hitting such a sensitive topic in each others faces. Is this for pride/egoist reasons? There is a lot happening behind the doors that we do not know about, and this coming out is just for distraction from what is really being planned.

Bill Clinton's Monica Lewinsky situation came at the perfect time, if anyone here remembers. The Tiger Woods scandal gave the media a chance to completly blind us from what is happening in the Middle-East. This is a tactic governments use, along with the media to condition/control and to manipulate the population. it is time we ALL wake up from this deep sleep, and as a species move along together. :)

Who do you think comprised the “122,000 Partisans active in Croatia, 108,000 in Bosnia”? Croats and Bosniaks? What were Croats and Bosniaks afraid of to force them to join the Partisans? Great revisionist work!
As Tito himself stated in the 1970s “if I had as many soldiers as are receiving a war pension today I would never have needed outside help”.
Croats are excellent at revisionism. Dan is correct Croats joined the Partisans in numbers only when NDH was on the verge of collapsing not before.
The information you’re quoting was designed to paper over the huge discrepancies that would have caused trouble between Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks because it was a lingering issue even 30 years after WW2. Looks like it did not work.
If Croats had such a tradition of “Communism” why is it at the very first chance they revert to NDH principles. Look at Franjo Tudjman, a retired general in the Yugoslav Army. He did the same with Ante Pavelic – deserted when the wind was blowing the other way. Old habits die hard!
Last time I looked, and I may be wrong, Chetnicks were fighting the Ustashi and Germans, but I may be wrong and will double check it in the US Congressional Library just to make sure. You see Chetnicks march in parades to commemorate WW2 but Croats can only do that under the Yugoslav banner.

Politics as usual they forgot to mention Croatian anti fascist resisters fighters also. Of the 80 partisan divisions 37 were made of Croatians in WW2. Thats close to 50% of the resistance when Croatians only made 25% of Yugoslavia population at that time lets not forget Tito Croatian.
(Lenard, 27 March 2010 17:23

Lenard,
Anyone who has done a basic study of WW2 balkan history can see the Croats joined up when it mattered for them not when it mattered for the allies. Thats politics as usual at it's finest.

------------------------
1941-42
Serb & Montenegrin majority
Slovenes: 12,6% (1942)
----------------------------
Serbs and Montenegrins: 64%
Croats: 26%
Slovenes: 6%
Bosniaks: 2.5%
Others/Unknown: 1.5%
---------------------------
The hard years when the writing was on the wall for the allies,
1941-42
Serb & Montenegrin majority
Slovenes: 12,6% (1942)
--------------------------
IN 1944 when the writing was on the wall for the axis Croats joined up,
1944
Serbs and Montenegrins: 64%
Croats: 26%
Slovenes: 6%
Bosniaks: 2.5%
Others/Unknown: 1.5%
--------------------------

Croatia's former president so "politically" put it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsSKXNrxBI8

This was there first victory,
http://www1.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%205904.pdf

Oh, and by the way, what is the purpose of all these nonsense rumours about Tito not being Tito orwhatever (sorry, can't keep up exactly)?
(DimTuc)
-
The purpose is for discussion, if you can't keep up dont worry. No one is asking you to... :)

Lenard is correct, sorry Dan, you just made up those figures.

According to Yugoslav statistics, at the height of the war in late 1943, there were 122,000 Partisans active in Croatia, 108,000 in Bosnia, and only 22,000 in Serbia (Strugar, V, Yugoslavia 1941-45, Belgrade, 1969, and Anic, N, Josimovic, S and Gutic, M, The National Liberation Army of Yugoslavia, Belgrade 1982). In Croatia 61 per cent of the Partisans were Croats, 28 per cent Serbs and the rest others (Jelic, I, Croatia in War and Revolution 1941-45, Zagreb, 1978). Of 97 Partisan brigades then in existence, 38 were from Croatia, 23 from Bosnia-Herzegovina and 18 from Slovenia. Of the 38 Croatian Partisan brigades, 20 had an ethnic-Croat majority, 17 an ethnic-Serb majority and 1 an ethnic-Czech majority. In Bosnia-Herzegovina, at this time, the Partisans were approximately two thirds Serb and one third Muslim and Croat, while the Slovene Partisans were overwhelmingly ethnic-Slovene. At the same time, the whole of eastern Yugoslavia (Serbia, Vojvodina, Montenegro, Kosovo and Macedonia) was contributing only 18 Partisan brigades (http://www.bosnia.org.uk/bosrep/report_format.cfm?articleid=3026&reportid=169).

Then suddenly, between late 1943 and late 1944, the number of “Partisans” in Serbia jumped from 22,000 to 204,000 – not coincidentally, the period during which Tito announced two amnesties for Chetniks.

Oh, and by the way, what is the purpose of all these nonsense rumours about Tito not being Tito orwhatever (sorry, can't keep up exactly)?

As far as Tito being a Croat there are very big doubts about that fact. My father was in Kosovo in 1948 in the army when Tito visited and gave several speeches and this man could barely speak Serbo Croatian.
(sj)
-
There are rumors that Tito was Winston Churchills son, but than again these are rumors, and then again... this is politics ... ;)

Political stunt for attention, which does nothing for the Serbian people.

Lenard is correct, sorry Dan, you just made up those figures.
(DimTuc, 28 March 2010 18:21)
Actually you should do a bit of research and you will find the same figures Lenard quoted from are the same I did.
You actually blow your argument in that first sentence. My figures are the ones issued by communist sources that are selectively cited even by the author you linked. Unfortunately facts are true but they are susceptible to false interpretations . I've witnessed a lot of literature in the past decade to follow that path.
http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2005/11/oliver_kamm_mar_1.html
My research requires no making up of figures you can keep your sorrow for those that manipulate them.
------------------------
In Croatia 61 per cent of the Partisans were Croats, 28 per cent Serbs and the rest others
(DimTuc, 28 March 2010 18:21)

That would be in "LATE" 1943.

So now comes my argument,
I question why all of a sudden such a show of support from previously inactive Croats ?

Well if we look into it we find a couple of events that signaled the Axis's imminent destruction.

Italy in September of 1943,
surrended and actually half it's country next door to Croatia was occupied by allied forces, which now stretches thin German forces in the Balkans. Where previously Italians occupied these areas large portions were left unchallenged to the Partisans.

The pinnacle turning point of WW2 also occurred in early 1943, that being the Russian victory at the battle of Stalingrad, close to a million Fascists are soundly beaten forcing Germany to re-direct as many troops to the Eastern(Russian) front to slow down the red army.

In 1943 the governments of Romania and Bulgaria now turned down Hitler's orders to deport Jews to Germany even they saw it was over for their German allies and started making overtures against them.

Not hard to join under those circumstances now is it, it is like joining a team after a massive half time lead as a water boy and saying we contributed here are the figures.

But what about when it mattered?, immediately after occupying Yugoslavia, the Germans had deported 200,000 prisoners of war all of them Serbs. Thousands of Serbs were being massacred by Germany's puppet regimes, and thousands more were executed by the Germans in reprisal for German troops killed by Chetniks and Serbian Partisans. In 1941 the hotbed of resistance was in Serbia this is what many historians agree gave Russia six vital weeks to avoid capitulation, it cost the Serbs a lot, the German order was to kill 100 Serbs for every German soldier killed which was carried out.
-------------------------
Then suddenly, between late 1943 and late 1944, the number of “Partisans” in Serbia jumped from 22,000 to 204,000 – not coincidentally, the period during which Tito announced two amnesties for Chetniks.
(DimTuc, 28 March 2010 18:21)

1941: ”The Serbs had risen. Said a commentator over the London radio that morning: "The action that the Serbs have taken this day will prove to be the turning point of the war." It did so prove.

From that day onwards, and because of the action of the little race of Serbs, everything went wrong for Germany. Her aim was spoiled, her timing destroyed. Before he could attack Russia, Hitler had to secure his rear in the Balkans to preclude an Allied landing. It took him three months to do what he had expected would be done, by his ordinary routine of penetration and theorization, in no time at all. (He hasn't completely finished the task yet!) He had to detach an army intended for Russia and send it down into the Balkans, with all that went with it. He not only had to send an army there but he had to keep an army there, by far the largest army of occupation in any of the overrun countries. He has had to keep in Yugoslavia to this day not less than half a million Axis troops. And still he hasn't beaten down the Serbs.

The Serbs chose war. They chose to die. They died. They are dying today-not by hundreds, not by thousands, but by hundreds of thousands, men, women, and small children. "

The Serbs choose war. by Ruth Mitchell Published in 1943.
--------------------------
Dim Tuc the misuse of facts for revisionism and to give false impressions is still deliberate deceptiveness.

My father was in Kosovo in 1948 in the army when Tito visited and gave several speeches and this man could barely speak Serbo Croatian.
(sj, 28 March 2010 00:20) I know he cant speak Serbo Croatian because he spoke Croatian/Alba-no Serbo. Next you will be telling me his hand writing was not Serbian Cyrillic most likely wasn't. Lenard, you clearly do not know WWII history very well. For most of the war the Partizans were a Serbian-Montenegrin Četniks. Some 90% of the upper staff were Serbs or Montenegrins Četniks only started joining the Partizans in 1944, when it was apparent that they would lose. Many just deflected from the Četniks. (Lazar, 27 March 2010 19:14) I would believe that also.

This isn't the best time, if at all, to be doing this kind of thing, especially as Serbia and Croatia now seem to be developing their relationship.
(Radoslav, 27 March 2010 15:19)
======================

So for the sake of friendship we should just let the off the hook. Isn't it funny how they won't let Serbia off the hook and are insisiting that we acknowledge and apologise for our crimes, for the sake of friendship.

How many times do Serbs forgivie and forget? WW1 and WW2 were forgiven and forgotten and we established brotherhood and unity with Croatians, Bosnian Muslims and Albanians, all of whome were on Hitler's side. Then in the 90s they murdered us again and nobody apologised for any of it.

Isn't it about time we demanded it and then thought about forgiveness?

Politics as usual they forgot to mention Croatian anti fascist resisters fighters also. Of the 80 partisan divisions 37 were made of Croatians in WW2. Thats close to 50% of the resistance when Croatians only made 25% of Yugoslavia population at that time lets not forget Tito Croatian.

Lenard is correct, sorry Dan, you just made up those figures.

According to Yugoslav statistics, at the height of the war in late 1943, there were 122,000 Partisans active in Croatia, 108,000 in Bosnia, and only 22,000 in Serbia (Strugar, V, Yugoslavia 1941-45, Belgrade, 1969, and Anic, N, Josimovic, S and Gutic, M, The National Liberation Army of Yugoslavia, Belgrade 1982). In Croatia 61 per cent of the Partisans were Croats, 28 per cent Serbs and the rest others (Jelic, I, Croatia in War and Revolution 1941-45, Zagreb, 1978). Of 97 Partisan brigades then in existence, 38 were from Croatia, 23 from Bosnia-Herzegovina and 18 from Slovenia. Of the 38 Croatian Partisan brigades, 20 had an ethnic-Croat majority, 17 an ethnic-Serb majority and 1 an ethnic-Czech majority. In Bosnia-Herzegovina, at this time, the Partisans were approximately two thirds Serb and one third Muslim and Croat, while the Slovene Partisans were overwhelmingly ethnic-Slovene. At the same time, the whole of eastern Yugoslavia (Serbia, Vojvodina, Montenegro, Kosovo and Macedonia) was contributing only 18 Partisan brigades (http://www.bosnia.org.uk/bosrep/report_format.cfm?articleid=3026&reportid=169).

Then suddenly, between late 1943 and late 1944, the number of “Partisans” in Serbia jumped from 22,000 to 204,000 – not coincidentally, the period during which Tito announced two amnesties for Chetniks.

Oh, and by the way, what is the purpose of all these nonsense rumours about Tito not being Tito orwhatever (sorry, can't keep up exactly)?

This isn't the best time, if at all, to be doing this kind of thing, especially as Serbia and Croatia now seem to be developing their relationship.

This is absolute must being followed by claims for WWII reparations from Croatia, Germany...

Radicals at their best! They should better rename themselves to "ridiculs" ;-)

Say what you want about the SRS - but they are spot on about this one.
Time has come to throw the spotlight on Croatia and it's continuing "wink and a nod" attitude to it's facist past and present.
Numbers speak for themselves, from Wiki, % of Serbs in Croatia
1931 - 18.45%
2001 - 4.54%
That's 3/4 gone within living memory... and it is still going on.
If that isn't genocide - what is?
Ignoring this issue just makes the Croats grow bolder.

Good call by SRS! it's a shame back-room deals compromise these initiatives at admitting REAL genocide while Serbia has to condemn the POW massacre in Srebrenica.

Lenard, you clearly do not know WWII history very well. For most of the war the Partizans were a Serbian-Montenegrin. Some 90% of the upper staff were Serbs or Montenegrins. Croatians only started joining the Partizans in 1944, when it was apparent that they would lose. Many just deflected from the Ustasha.

My father was in Kosovo in 1948 in the army when Tito visited and gave several speeches and this man could barely speak Serbo Croatian.
(sj, 28 March 2010 00:20) I know he cant speak Serbo Croatian because he spoke Croatian/Alba-no Serbo. Next you will be telling me his hand writing was not Serbian Cyrillic most likely wasn't. Lenard, you clearly do not know WWII history very well. For most of the war the Partizans were a Serbian-Montenegrin Četniks. Some 90% of the upper staff were Serbs or Montenegrins Četniks only started joining the Partizans in 1944, when it was apparent that they would lose. Many just deflected from the Četniks. (Lazar, 27 March 2010 19:14) I would believe that also.

This is really unecessary, as individuals we can all take time to learn about the atrocities done by both sides. Why waste so much time trying to come up with resolutions such as this?

As nations Serbia, Bosnia and Croatia have a lot more to worry about. I think all sides should just drop it. We can all agree on ONE thing, the war was a devastation and self-destructive. Lets us learn from THAT point alone, so we can learn, and prosper once again together.

We have hit a moment in time, where we are now able to have open dialogue with one another, why ruin this by hitting such a sensitive topic in each others faces. Is this for pride/egoist reasons? There is a lot happening behind the doors that we do not know about, and this coming out is just for distraction from what is really being planned.

Bill Clinton's Monica Lewinsky situation came at the perfect time, if anyone here remembers. The Tiger Woods scandal gave the media a chance to completly blind us from what is happening in the Middle-East. This is a tactic governments use, along with the media to condition/control and to manipulate the population. it is time we ALL wake up from this deep sleep, and as a species move along together. :)

Politics as usual they forgot to mention Croatian anti fascist resisters fighters also. Of the 80 partisan divisions 37 were made of Croatians in WW2. Thats close to 50% of the resistance when Croatians only made 25% of Yugoslavia population at that time lets not forget Tito Croatian.
(Lenard, 27 March 2010 17:23

Just how many Croatians were in the old pre-WW2 Yugoslavia??? You guys had the largest number of war criminals (600 Franciscan Friars alone), had 100 000 (according to Croatians) executed in Austrai and now you had the largest number of Partisans!!!!
In the past when I was asked by people how many Croats lived in the old Yugo, I started with saying there were 25 million people living in that country but 35 million were Croats.
As far as Tito being a Croat there are very big doubts about that fact. My father was in Kosovo in 1948 in the army when Tito visited and gave several speeches and this man could barely speak Serbo Croatian.

The Radicals are busy these days with their parliamentary activities...

Who do you think comprised the “122,000 Partisans active in Croatia, 108,000 in Bosnia”? Croats and Bosniaks? What were Croats and Bosniaks afraid of to force them to join the Partisans? Great revisionist work!
As Tito himself stated in the 1970s “if I had as many soldiers as are receiving a war pension today I would never have needed outside help”.
Croats are excellent at revisionism. Dan is correct Croats joined the Partisans in numbers only when NDH was on the verge of collapsing not before.
The information you’re quoting was designed to paper over the huge discrepancies that would have caused trouble between Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks because it was a lingering issue even 30 years after WW2. Looks like it did not work.
If Croats had such a tradition of “Communism” why is it at the very first chance they revert to NDH principles. Look at Franjo Tudjman, a retired general in the Yugoslav Army. He did the same with Ante Pavelic – deserted when the wind was blowing the other way. Old habits die hard!
Last time I looked, and I may be wrong, Chetnicks were fighting the Ustashi and Germans, but I may be wrong and will double check it in the US Congressional Library just to make sure. You see Chetnicks march in parades to commemorate WW2 but Croats can only do that under the Yugoslav banner.

Political stunt for attention, which does nothing for the Serbian people.

As far as Tito being a Croat there are very big doubts about that fact. My father was in Kosovo in 1948 in the army when Tito visited and gave several speeches and this man could barely speak Serbo Croatian.
(sj)
-
There are rumors that Tito was Winston Churchills son, but than again these are rumors, and then again... this is politics ... ;)

The reason why there is a memorial at Jasenovac today is because the project was driven through by a Croatian partisan, General Ivan Gosnjak, who was a leading figure in the Yugoslav resistance throughout the war. That there were many decent, anti-fascist Croats is beyond question - we should be asking instead why they appear to be less celebrated in croatia today than the NDH nazis.

Oh, and by the way, what is the purpose of all these nonsense rumours about Tito not being Tito orwhatever (sorry, can't keep up exactly)?
(DimTuc)
-
The purpose is for discussion, if you can't keep up dont worry. No one is asking you to... :)

This isn't the best time, if at all, to be doing this kind of thing, especially as Serbia and Croatia now seem to be developing their relationship.
(Radoslav, 27 March 2010 15:19)
======================

So for the sake of friendship we should just let the off the hook. Isn't it funny how they won't let Serbia off the hook and are insisiting that we acknowledge and apologise for our crimes, for the sake of friendship.

How many times do Serbs forgivie and forget? WW1 and WW2 were forgiven and forgotten and we established brotherhood and unity with Croatians, Bosnian Muslims and Albanians, all of whome were on Hitler's side. Then in the 90s they murdered us again and nobody apologised for any of it.

Isn't it about time we demanded it and then thought about forgiveness?

Politics as usual they forgot to mention Croatian anti fascist resisters fighters also. Of the 80 partisan divisions 37 were made of Croatians in WW2. Thats close to 50% of the resistance when Croatians only made 25% of Yugoslavia population at that time lets not forget Tito Croatian.
(Lenard, 27 March 2010 17:23

Lenard,
Anyone who has done a basic study of WW2 balkan history can see the Croats joined up when it mattered for them not when it mattered for the allies. Thats politics as usual at it's finest.

------------------------
1941-42
Serb & Montenegrin majority
Slovenes: 12,6% (1942)
----------------------------
Serbs and Montenegrins: 64%
Croats: 26%
Slovenes: 6%
Bosniaks: 2.5%
Others/Unknown: 1.5%
---------------------------
The hard years when the writing was on the wall for the allies,
1941-42
Serb & Montenegrin majority
Slovenes: 12,6% (1942)
--------------------------
IN 1944 when the writing was on the wall for the axis Croats joined up,
1944
Serbs and Montenegrins: 64%
Croats: 26%
Slovenes: 6%
Bosniaks: 2.5%
Others/Unknown: 1.5%
--------------------------

Croatia's former president so "politically" put it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsSKXNrxBI8

This was there first victory,
http://www1.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Microsoft%20Word%20-%205904.pdf

(Lenard, 27 March 2010 17:23
In 1948 Tito was in Kosovo to visit the army not the local population. He gave four speeches to the military not the local population.
As my father was a border guard his unit was given the task of providing security to the Tito visit and my father stood 3 feet from this man at all formal occasions. This man was not able to speak properly either Serbian or as you call it, Croatian/Alba.

(trudsaam, 28 March 2010 04:54
Yes there are a lot of rumors but my favorite one is that during Tito’s entire presidency, from 1945 to 1980, he never once visited his mother during her life time in the village of his birth. Funny isn’t it? For a man that was an absolute ruler he never paid a visit to good old mum.
Here is another one for you. When Tito’s mother saw her son on TV in the local village hall she was quoted as saying “that’s not my son”. In fact she made that statement in front of a senior minister in Tito’s cabinet who had presented the TV as a gift to the village. Mum passed away several days later from a stroke.

Lenard is correct, sorry Dan, you just made up those figures.
(DimTuc, 28 March 2010 18:21)
Actually you should do a bit of research and you will find the same figures Lenard quoted from are the same I did.
You actually blow your argument in that first sentence. My figures are the ones issued by communist sources that are selectively cited even by the author you linked. Unfortunately facts are true but they are susceptible to false interpretations . I've witnessed a lot of literature in the past decade to follow that path.
http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2005/11/oliver_kamm_mar_1.html
My research requires no making up of figures you can keep your sorrow for those that manipulate them.
------------------------
In Croatia 61 per cent of the Partisans were Croats, 28 per cent Serbs and the rest others
(DimTuc, 28 March 2010 18:21)

That would be in "LATE" 1943.

So now comes my argument,
I question why all of a sudden such a show of support from previously inactive Croats ?

Well if we look into it we find a couple of events that signaled the Axis's imminent destruction.

Italy in September of 1943,
surrended and actually half it's country next door to Croatia was occupied by allied forces, which now stretches thin German forces in the Balkans. Where previously Italians occupied these areas large portions were left unchallenged to the Partisans.

The pinnacle turning point of WW2 also occurred in early 1943, that being the Russian victory at the battle of Stalingrad, close to a million Fascists are soundly beaten forcing Germany to re-direct as many troops to the Eastern(Russian) front to slow down the red army.

In 1943 the governments of Romania and Bulgaria now turned down Hitler's orders to deport Jews to Germany even they saw it was over for their German allies and started making overtures against them.

Not hard to join under those circumstances now is it, it is like joining a team after a massive half time lead as a water boy and saying we contributed here are the figures.

But what about when it mattered?, immediately after occupying Yugoslavia, the Germans had deported 200,000 prisoners of war all of them Serbs. Thousands of Serbs were being massacred by Germany's puppet regimes, and thousands more were executed by the Germans in reprisal for German troops killed by Chetniks and Serbian Partisans. In 1941 the hotbed of resistance was in Serbia this is what many historians agree gave Russia six vital weeks to avoid capitulation, it cost the Serbs a lot, the German order was to kill 100 Serbs for every German soldier killed which was carried out.
-------------------------
Then suddenly, between late 1943 and late 1944, the number of “Partisans” in Serbia jumped from 22,000 to 204,000 – not coincidentally, the period during which Tito announced two amnesties for Chetniks.
(DimTuc, 28 March 2010 18:21)

1941: ”The Serbs had risen. Said a commentator over the London radio that morning: "The action that the Serbs have taken this day will prove to be the turning point of the war." It did so prove.

From that day onwards, and because of the action of the little race of Serbs, everything went wrong for Germany. Her aim was spoiled, her timing destroyed. Before he could attack Russia, Hitler had to secure his rear in the Balkans to preclude an Allied landing. It took him three months to do what he had expected would be done, by his ordinary routine of penetration and theorization, in no time at all. (He hasn't completely finished the task yet!) He had to detach an army intended for Russia and send it down into the Balkans, with all that went with it. He not only had to send an army there but he had to keep an army there, by far the largest army of occupation in any of the overrun countries. He has had to keep in Yugoslavia to this day not less than half a million Axis troops. And still he hasn't beaten down the Serbs.

The Serbs chose war. They chose to die. They died. They are dying today-not by hundreds, not by thousands, but by hundreds of thousands, men, women, and small children. "

The Serbs choose war. by Ruth Mitchell Published in 1943.
--------------------------
Dim Tuc the misuse of facts for revisionism and to give false impressions is still deliberate deceptiveness.