"Slovenia could retaliate for humiliation"

Good luck with your speculation MR. Economist. Unfortunately Mr. President has more say than ever will. How is it such a problem to understand that Serbia is asking the EU to abide by the law, and thats it. Why is it so hard to comprehend the real situation at hand. If the EU chooses to ignore this law, what other laws will they choose to ignore? the EU cannot be trusted, all nations in the Balkans need to stay away. We have our own situations that need to be dealt with and we have no time to full around with EU gentlemens.

Ha ha ha! What a mess! This is what happens when someone wishes to impose a solution not acceptable to one side. Rather than moving balkan countries closer, the Kosovo UDI is turning into a nightmare for the EU and causing balkans states to move further and further away from both the EU and eachother. I hope Slovenia slows Serbias progress towards the EU. It will cause Tadic and co to loose the upcoming election and make it easier for Serbia to create even closer cooperation with Russia.

It will cause Tadic and co to loose the upcoming election and make it easier for Serbia to create even closer cooperation with Russia.
(Mikael C, 22 March 2010, 17:40)

Just for the record, please expose where you live and stay this in reflection why Serbia should stay outside EU.

Regards

The Economist is so wrong, and this is such lazy and shoddy journalism it's pathetic. Moratinos didn't attend because Spain agrees with Serbia, and Spain does not recognize the fake, illegal, and immoral 'state' of Kosovo. The upcoming conference, chaired by Spain, will have Kosovo-UNMIK as the representative. Take it or leave it.
As for Slovenia being able to somehow get revenge on or 'hurt' Serbia?? Bring it on I say. Serbs should boycott all Slovenian products, and then let's see them try to find a market somewhere else.
Cheers!!

Just for the record, please expose where you live and stay this in reflection why Serbia should stay outside EU.

Regards
Berkeley

For your information I live in Sweden who is a EU member since the early 90s. I have seen what EU has brought Sweden and I have no illusions to what it will bring Serbia. If Sweden has no say in EU politics you can just imagine how much leverage Serbia will have, ZERO! Serbia will be forced to do as Germany, UK and France tells them and what will we get in return, some pocketchange at best. How do you think these countries became so powerful? By being nice and helping others? No, by taking what is not theirs and exploiting other people. They have emptied Africa of its recources and made themselves rich while the natives starv. These same countries are trying to force Serbia to give up its own territory and we are not even members yet. We will be hostages in our own land. Perhaps we will loose out on some benifits but to me the important thing is not to be stepped on by others. I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees. I pray to God that Serbia never ever joins these anti Serb hypocrites. People who have illegaly bombed my country and killed my people for the sake of druglords I can never respect or forgive. Also I hope one day to return to my native country of Serbia. Sweden is overrun by hostile muslims and to raise my children in this environment is out of the question. If I had the funds I would leave long ago. I would have less meterial wealth but in return I would have greater human wealth.
Hope I answered your question.

Regards

Let Serbia keep whining on about Kosovo for as long as it wants, it is a waste of their time. Whatever they do they aint gonna get Kosovo back. That is why it is so funny. The real fun will begin once Croatia is in the EU. Then France, Germany, UK, Slovenia, Croatia, Netherlands and Italy can all have their fun and games with Serbia.

...and they said life was gooooood!
(Ian, UK, 22 March 2010 18:44)
======================

Ian, you keep saying that you are not Albanian, but you sound more vengeful and hateful than some Albanians here.
If it was up to you, perhaps you would try to have "fun" with Serbia, but we are dealing with politicians who don't care beyond their own interests.

Slovenia tried to act like a regional power and was subsequently put in it's place. Instead of "revenge", they should take it as a useful lesson. i.e. act according to your international standing.

Who wrote this garbage, Robert Kaplan?

The Economist has always been mindlessly pro-Western and keen to blame any shortcoming of internationalism on recalcitrant non-Westerners. Not a surprise the article lays the blame for the meeting's failure on Belgrade's doorstep because it's a convenient way to cover up the mistakes, arrogances, and diplomatic shortcomings of the EU. The Economist is also rabidly pro-Kosovo and likes to think the Balkans are still run by a bunch of Borats ready to kill each other at moment's notice. I daresay Slovenia would be interested in getting "revenge" on Serbia, but since the article conveniently overlooked the caveat that Tadic had no problem with Pristina being present as long as it was represented as Kosovo-UNMIK (yes, I know, why bother to let details get in a the way of biased reporting), it's easy to portray the most important country in the region as seeped in some nationalistic past that yadda yadda yadda and blah blah blah.

Oh, those stupid Serbs. Why don't the just bend over and take it like everyone else in the region does? Who are they to upstage us? They're not even a real country, you know. I mean look at the way they have such funny sounding names? What are they? Mutant Russians or something? They've been a thorn in the side of progress ever since Gavrilo Princip started World War II when he shot the King of Scotland (or something like that - the point is that Serbs are dumb).

Convenient also how the article failed to mention the Bosnian delegation walking out on Thaci, and von Rompuy's unexplained absence. If Serbia is as powerful as the article claims to upset an entire meeting and keep the EU leaders away, Slovenia's going to have a hard time indeed getting its "vendetta".

The "Blame Serbia" strategy is getting so pathetic.

The Economist, is scary, precise, realistic and very prophetic.

Revenge? More like good news!! Serbia does not need to be in the EU, look at how Germany is treating Greece!
Yes i do live in a western country but theres not much i can get here that Serbs can't get in Serbia if they are working.
Instead of driving a BMW here i would be driving a Fiat over there, at least i wouldnt be working 12hrs a day and waiting for the weekend.
Here you work 30 years to pay off your house while in Serbia most people own their houses and don't need to pay interest for 30 years!
The westerners just hate that Serbia can live on it's own, no credit cards, no huge home/personal loans.
Capitalism where there rich get richer and everyone else works for them!
Serbia stay out of EU!
Once i have saved enough, i will sell the house, sell the car and Serbia baby here i come!
Nema nista bolje od Srpstva!

WOW !!! talking about killing two birds with one stone.

Humiliating Slovenija and not going in the EU... GOLDEN

The Economist, is scary, precise, realistic and very prophetic.
(alproud, 22 March 2010 17:57)

LOL. Yes they predicted no economic crisis, they were correct.

LOL. They predicted by the end of 2001 Djindjic would recognize Kosovo. We see how correct they were.

Dear Mikael I write this post just to thank you for demonstrating that people who love their countries are still existing.
I do understand you and your feelings about NATO bombing in Serbia.
I do understand your need to be back at home.
I do understand much more the fact that you prefere to get away from a place that's fullfilled by muslims, because it is the same thing that's happening in my country at the moment.
I also think that EU didn't bring only good things to my country even if we joined the EU many years ago.
I really admire you for your love for your country and your people. I hope to be the same as you with my country and my people.
Do your best to reach every objective you got in your life and if you desire to be back in Serbia I wish you can do it soon.
Defend your culture and do not allow anyone to throw dust on your flag and heritage.
Be proud to be what you are my friend.
Hope to talk to you again.

Yes, let Slovenia sulk and juice up the prices on their tuna pate, ovens and other items in their shopping malls in Belgrade - who cares! There are other ovens to use, other pates and other goods to buy in other stores elsewhere.

As far as I'm concerned Slovenia would make us great favour by blocking our EU path.
I really hope Serbia stays out of the EU.

To make it clear, I'm all for every kind of bilateral cooperation with the EU, and not only with the EU but the entire world.

However, cooperation does not have to take place at any costs by imposing some unacceptable conditions on Serbia as Slovenia and Croatia tried to do days ago.

Serbia's decision not to take part in this comedy was more than right one and I'm very pleased by the president's final decision even though, in general I have little respect for him and his yellow pals.

Slovenia has a very low population of Albanians. It did not allow them to stay and establish any sort of a grouping.

The worst cynical racist attitude I have ever experienced was in Slovenia in the middle of a tourist area (and I will continue to take opportunity to repeat that for a long while yet. It was not even directed at me, but it shocked me.).

There is nothing that Slovenia would do to preserve Kosovo as a udi - except for the purposes of spiting Serbia of course.

Possibly that is what happened here.

Slovenia created the problem at this conference but then (according to this report) could squeal when they do not get their own way.

Was this deliberate provocation? - or were they stupid enough not to know what was going to happen?

If Slovenia thinks it has any particular blocking power, think again. If the EU in general wants Serbia in, Slovenia has no real say.

Serbian politicians have an obligation to retain Kosovo. But more than than that, it has every reason not to reward the ethnic cleansing of Serbs that predated Milosevic and was part of the mono-ethnic ambition of Albanians that was a big part of the problem in the first place.

There does need to be a future where all people cooperate, but not with this very artificial creation of a second Albanian state. I suggest that it is time to come up with a more permanent autonomous status that is UN lead and in which the interests of all sides have legal weight.

"Slovenia tried to act like a regional power and was subsequently put in it's place. Instead of "revenge", they should take it as a useful lesson. i.e. act according to your international standing."
(dingdong, 22 March 2010 21:00)

Exactly!

Great and interesting comments on this thread, ranging from the heartfelt and interesting to the bandwagon jumpers [eg. Ian 'big man' UK: "You ain't gonna get Kosovo back"].

The comments coming from Slovenia are just ridiculous. Straight after the conference the PM was quoted as saying "everyone should just recognise every else".

That just shows such a simplistic, undeveloped and low level of diplomatic skills. You don't try and force recognition of a breakaway province by its sovereign state via the back door, especially with such amateurish tactics.

You don't refuse the request to not have the province named as a state at the 'international conference' and then start chucking your dummy out the pram because the sovereign state won't play along.

And now Slovenia are threatening to hold up Serbia's entry to the EU? I think that others on this thread have put it excellently: why does Serbia need to be in the EU?

Plus, if Serbia did wish to join, what exactly would Sloevnia do to hold up entry? Do they think that they would be allowed to do that by the major EU states?

The Economist, is scary, precise, realistic and very prophetic.
(alproud)
-
Pathetic is word I know your looking for. :)

The Economist, is scary, precise, realistic and very prophetic.
(alproud, 22 March 2010 17:57)

Yeah, we saw that ahead of financial crisis. Ups.

Nobody can predict Serbia BTW, not even ourselves.

The economist is best described as a “western rag”. Its main purpose is to spread propaganda and espouse the goodness and niceness of capitalism and the nastiness of anything else that does not cow tail to US policy. I used to be a subscriber but after 6 months cancelled that subscription – it was blatant spin and rubbish.

“Later this year, a major EU-Balkans summit is planned in Sarajevo….. If Serbia stays away again, the consequences could be grave,” the magazine adds”.

Another EU/US bluff. They are trying to force the Serbian people’s hand, but when the majority of Serbs don’t care about the EU it’s hard and what are the consequences if Serbia does not go, well no EU. How coincidental that Serbs want that too!


The only reason Germany wants to stop enlargement is because there are now too many mouths to feed let alone bring more into the fold.
Slovenia’s revenge is to slow down Serbia’s into the EU, what a joke. It will be the first time the “tail wagged the dog” in history. Slovenia does what its told and nothing more or less – it would STARVE without EU funds..
Here is also some news. If Croatia does not finalise borders with Serbia and the Serb refugee question then no EU for Croatia. Kosovo cannot go into the EU without Serbia.
“I’ll huff and puff and blow your how down”. Believe me when I say that if the US/EU had the military might they would have used it yesterday on Serbia, but they don’t and all that’s left is empty and idle threats.

Her is my prediction for the so called Sarajevo conference – No UMNIK Kosovo Res 1224, no Serbia, but the west will huff and puff blah, blah and later on call for another conference and give Serbia a 100th last chance to attend or else!!!!!!!……...

According to this, the "revenge" would come with Slovenia opting to "slow down Serbia's EU integration process".
--
Oh, that's not revenge, that's a reward!
==
"By wrecking the Brdo summit, Tadić won a battle, but he cannot win the war."
--
The war is already won. Russia and China have made sure of that.
==
“Later this year, a major EU-Balkans summit is planned in Sarajevo, and the EU is increasing pressure on the states of the region to improve their mutual relations. If Serbia stays away again, the consequences could be grave,” the daily adds.
--
Why would Serbia stay away when Spain will be abiding by international law? The question is, will UNMIK-Kosovo attend? The answer is "who cares?"
==
“Many powerful voices in the EU, including Germany’s ruling Christian Democrats, want to see a long pause in enlargement for 'digestion' once the EU takes in Iceland and Croatia, possibly in 2012. They won't mind a bit if Tadić insists on putting Kosovo before Europe. If that happens, Serbia, which long ago lost Kosovo, may lose the EU,” the Economist believes.
--
Please, slow down the process. I think what will happen is the EU will in fact lose the Balkans, not the other way around. The Orthodox and Muslim worlds live in the East and we should align ourselves there.

Revenge..tit for tat ...i'll show you...come on what is this 3rd grade ??? though its not out of question for EU states to act in this manner e.g. "the netherlands" i doubt any backlash is coming.

Last week only proves Serbia has advanced its self politicaly. Diplomacy and rule of law are on our side they who choose otherwise will lack results always !

Let Serbia keep whining on about Kosovo for as long as it wants, it is a waste of their time. Whatever they do they aint gonna get Kosovo back. That is why it is so funny. The real fun will begin once Croatia is in the EU. Then France, Germany, UK, Slovenia, Croatia, Netherlands and Italy can all have their fun and games with Serbia.

...and they said life was gooooood!

ZBOGOM SRBIJO!
Adio Serbia!

I will never understand how the years have passed so quickly. Like yesterday it was January 1990. I was a young man freshly released from communist Romania and I was discovering Yugoslavia as a wonderful park. Too little we were together and too soon we have seen each other in different conditions.

Sunset has become increasingly red towards Yugoslavia. The sky was filled with flames and blood and screaming like the west wind and I was too early in my career as a reporter of war. Under my eyes and at the pace of my texts pieces of Yugoslavia were broken. The country which delighted me so much was bleeding in front of a poor Romanian journalist. I watched them turn into people like my grandparents that every year trim the roses and the vineyard. So the Serbs seemed sure that after all that had to leave will leave what remains in their yard will be reborn recovering from injuries. I have opened my eyes more and around me were not my grandparents but desperate and wounded people. On the ground laid the dead. I was in Vukovar and I felt then what followed soon to say - Adio Yugoslavia!

Again the years passed and I was still there. Bosnia went. Croatia too. Slovenia is now a long forgotten chapter. Yugoslavia was only a name. Became increasingly small, uglier and very tired.

Then came 1999. Almost a decade had passed since my eyes were looking into showcases notable of foreign films and discovering the at Toblerone Cipiripi and Coca Cola in bottles of one liter ... and fluffy white bread and a society devoid of fears and prejudices. But again the Serbs were the most hated and most violent people on the planet. I was seeing that on CNN and if I looked around it was a country with some friendly people and maybe with a lot of honor that compels them to be patriotic. Patriotism seemed hard to understand in Romania.

NATO bombed the old Yugoslavia. They hit it all that was most valuable. In factories, in monasteries, in maternity, television and civilians. Felt like those bombs were falling on our heads too. All to protect the rights of Albanians in Kosovo.

Well, but Kosovo is not a point on the map as it is seen by those who share their own justice. It's still that holy place in which and for which the earth soaked in Serbian blood. Not the Serbs started to kill. Only after more than 20 years of horrors committed by Albanians, the Serbs have jumped from their door hinges and went south to apply a correction to the Muslims. YES. Unfortunately it was rather sturdy and led to other dramas and other tombs have sprung. New cemeteries were filled and too many women were dressed in black. They cried their children and men in churches or mosques when there was no need for the marble to be washed with tears.

I will leave it for my colleagues who think NATO has done well what it did, to disseminate obsessive images of poor Albanians killed Serbs. I showed you some less viewed ones, with Serbs sent to God by Albanians.

Now myself scratched and dull after so many wars and troubles I look back at the time when we were still young. Me and Yugoslavia. It was, and it is not coming back. Of what was once, remained only Serbia. Sad.

PRESENT again:

I just stayed in Kosovo for almost a month to live as all people living there. After so many funerals I attended a birth. It was the birth of Kosovo.

Now I look glum ahead and may only tell you so ADIO SERBIA! You're too old and I do not understand how you thought you can stand a birth .... Didn’t you know that’s going to hurt.

Mile Carpenisan 02 March 2008


Mile, a war reporter of Antena 1 Tv, died today in Timisoara, 34 years old. Maybe he was one of Serbia's best friends in Romania and I can still hear his words when reporting (the only I think)from a Belgrade under bombardement "They're trying to catch me, stop me. I will not let them. I can't. I won't."
Just thought this should show up on a serbian website.

It's just Saatchi and his first cousin Saatchi spending Us and Eu tax payers money lobbying for Albanian separatist and their sponsors. Nothing in other words :) Nada :)

LOL @ Mladen

yeah, where´s the "punishment" ....?

Slovenia stole not just the investments of the other 5 YU-republics into it´s economy, but also the banksavings of 23 million yougoslavs.

Most of this money ended up in Serbia, as "investments".

see, the Slovenians are clever enough to know that EU doesn´t feed anybody.

but producing in Serbia and afterwards selling in Russia, without obstacles and taxes, is far more clever.

look at gorenjes cash-cow, it´s luxury line. that is produced in Serbia, sold in Serbia and Russia. While they sell it´s ordinary goods in EU ...

the economist shouldn´t shoot with empty and foreign guns, but concentrate on their funny cartoons and even funnier political statements ...
While it´s standard

"Slovenia could retaliate for humiliation"... and ignite that "gorenje" plant?

I see some contradiction in the article, assuming that Serbia's path will be made much longer and that Slovenian or German government will be still the same despite the prolonged time. And I am not sure, what shape will be EU around 2015 when things will happen in earnest.

Where the article is right: Serbia won't be EU member in 2012 together with Iceland and Croatia. But is it a news?

Since when is the 'The Economist' a daily? When basic facts like these are wrong... not to mention that the Economist is Russo and Serbophobic, the famous croatophile Marcus Tanner being their Balkans correspondent.

As to the content of the article, Serbia is not Croatia.

B92 recently reported that Slovenian company Gorenje is building large facilities in Serbia to help them expand rapidly.

If the slovene government really wants to sabotage its own economy and companies, then go ahead and try to 'slow down' Serbia's accession. You will see the results rather quickly not only from Serbia but much larger EU member states who will not accept such childish and damaging behavior from Slovenia. With Croatia, at least they had the coastal fig-leaf and ended up with egg on their face.

And all this on the back of the current Slovenian government propaganda about a 'united balkans'. It would show them to be the arrogant hypocrites that they are.

They just cannot stop looking down their noses at their neighbors however hard they try, no change from the SFRY then.

thank you slovenia, please slow down the integration process... don't let serbia join the eu, until the eu ceases to exist. thanks again!

@ ADRIAN

Thank you for bringing us back the warm memories of a dear friend, honest and brave - brave to voice his feelings in the times when many forgot even the word friendship.
He will be remembered with respect by people who know to be grateful.

God bless his soul, may he rest in peace.

I pray to God that Serbia never ever joins these anti Serb hypocrites.
[...]
(Mikael C, 22 March 2010 20:48)

Indeed, you answered it. You speak of hypocrites when it comes to Serbia's (far future) joining to the EU and condemn this attempt while living in the "evil" heart of the Western world, actually even a country which recognized Kosovo. I think we all understand what you actually mean. Serbia should stay out that you feel comfortable while yourself live also in the comfortable West.
(Berkeley, 23 March 2010 00:18)

I thought the only inspired thing that came out Berkley was a pair of them Birkenstocks.

Now tell me, why you wanna be picking on, and attacking a brother that's done no harm to you, or anybody else for that matter? Alls he doing is speaking his mind--he can't do no harm to you. Trust me on that one!

And besides, the brother was praying to the Lord--lookey up on top in the first row of the letters or lookey below, and read your brother praying:

"I pray to God that Serbia never ever joins these anti Serb hypocrites".

And I says,Amen! Brother.

Now, are you gonna attack me or leave me a poor comment for also speaking
my mind and not yours?

Watch out for them illusions-- they mess with peoples minds,big time.

This is all just lip service. Serbia's participation in the conference was not impossible at all but it was prevented by the hosts. Besides it was only one minor, informal conference, nothing really official.

The Economist guys just wanted to see history going their way. In a typically colonial way...

The Economist, is scary, precise, realistic and very prophetic.
(alproud, 22 March 2010 17:57)

I still have that famous edition of the Economist from August 2008 tucked away somewhere in my drawer predicting that the credit crunch was over a full 1 month before Lehman Bros went kaput.

Any time I'm in need of some comic relief, out it comes :)

the Economist is about as prophetic and realistic as Sejdiu and Thaci.

"By wrecking the Brdo summit, Tadić won a battle, but he cannot win the war. Smarting from its humiliation, Slovenia’s government may choose to take revenge by slowing the EU’s integration process with Serbia."

My only comment would be that actually this is up to Serbia if this would happen or not.

Hahahahahahahhahahahahaaaaa

Does it means that we don´t have to listen Jelko "Tannenbaum" Kacin´s statements anymore?

Nice.

"Slovenia could retaliate for humiliation.
--
Slovens Croats Bosniaks Montenegros Kosovans Albanians =
I L L Y R I A N BROTHERS
(Rocky, 22 March 2010 22:20) "

Slovenes, Croats, Montenegrins and Bosniaks are Slavs, Albanians are Albanians (not Illyrians, there is no proven link yet, not language even. That would be as stupid as saying there are still Scythians, Dacians or Thracians) and "Kosovans" don't exist.

Try an encyclopedia.

"By wrecking the Brdo summit, Tadić won a battle, but he cannot win the war. Smarting from its humiliation, Slovenia’s government may choose to take revenge by slowing the EU’s integration process with Serbia."


Well It will give also the opportunity for "change" in Serbia by the people electing ULTRA NATIONALIST figures and stamp out the Pro-Western DS party and its socialist ally. Go on and deny Serbia an EU Membership.

Are you persisting in being the mouth piece of Nato and the Anglo-Americans?

"By wrecking the Brdo summit, Tadić won a battle, but he cannot win the war. Smarting from its humiliation, Slovenia’s government may choose to take revenge by slowing the EU’s integration process with Serbia."
B92

This fool sounds like he gots some serious heat coming from under that rhinestone collar of his.

And now he be butt-hurt and bent on revenge, and wants to win some battles too, and prevent Tadich so he can't win the war??

What war N ?

I am telling you, this fool has got no originality nor wisdom. If my mama heard him talk like that,she would make him write twelve hundred and forty four times:

I WILL BE WORKING ON MY SELF TO ENJOY LIFE WITHOUT ANY DISRESPECTFUL COMMENTS!

Anyways, without Tadich you'all looked like a herd of sheep waiting for the ram.

"Croatians have very little slavic dna in us, we have more celtic and germanic dna then anything..."

That explains why quite a number of Croats seem to have a stiffness in their right elbow joints when they try to raise their hands!

Slovenia could have its “revenge” on Serbia. Yes the Slovenians can be very vindictive. Croatia has experienced it many times. From denying Ex Yugo depositors money in the Ljubljanska Bank. To riping off power of the 50/50 owned Krsk nuclear power plant. By the withholding and using the power of 100s of millions worth of Croatia share. Trying to bully Croatia of ceding territory that international law confirmed it is on Croatian side etc. Now Serbia has the vengeful little yelping snarling chihuahua hot on its tracks. Slovenians of its many perceived or imaginary of being slighted to edge it on for revenge maybe its handler will tell it shut up enjoy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDYDVZ0LFd0&feature=related

Slovenia could retaliate for humiliation.
--
Slovens Croats Bosniaks Montenegros Kosovans Albanians =
I L L Y R I A N BROTHERS

"According to this, the "revenge" would come with Slovenia opting to "slow down Serbia's EU integration process".

These are the writings from the Economist or is it Hello magazine I cannot tell them apart the quality looks the same. "Revenge" hahaha
what magazine publishes such tripe, these are countries we are talking about not two females scorn at a bar.
How many other papers have taken this story on, or is it just that the shareholders at the Rosthchild family bank be looking for revenge?

“Many powerful voices in the EU, including Germany’s ruling Christian Democrats, want to see a long pause in enlargement for 'digestion' once the EU takes in Iceland and Croatia, possibly in 2012. They won't mind a bit if Tadić insists on putting Kosovo before Europe. If that happens, Serbia, which long ago lost Kosovo, may lose the EU,” the Economist believes.

So they want to sacrifice this?
http://businessneweurope.eu/story1953/Serbia_and_Germany_put_history_behind_them
No skin of Serbia's nose it has all the trade deals it needs to still attract EU investment.
If the Economist now beleives an unquoted CDP is going all out and it's true then I'm setting up traps for the Easter bunny before it's too late.

As for the next conference in a country that does not recognise Kosovo, Tadic might just be there.

I pray to God that Serbia never ever joins these anti Serb hypocrites.
[...]
(Mikael C, 22 March 2010 20:48)

Indeed, you answered it. You speak of hypocrites when it comes to Serbia's (far future) joining to the EU and condemn this attempt while living in the "evil" heart of the Western world, actually even a country which recognized Kosovo. I think we all understand what you actually mean. Serbia should stay out that you feel comfortable while yourself live also in the comfortable West.

"PS. by the way, make Greece join that new union/RU."
(Qiqavica's Albanian)

-- Hmm, a neo-Byzantine Empire, eh? Sounds pretty good if you ask me, but I'm not contributing unless two conditions are met.

1. They regain control of Turkey.

2. The capital of the RU is moved to Constantinople. Moscow/St. Petersburg is way too cold. :P

"Yugoslavia tried to destroy this but it has failed." (Tibor)

-- Hmm. Croats had a significant hand in creating Yugoslavia. Isn't that a wrench in your myth of origin? Your grandparents and at least 15 generations of Slavic Croatians before them were indeed horrible people in the eyes of your Sumerian, Hittite, Scythian ancestors and their overlord Xenu. Best you take whatever is left of the Horvath race and fly them in the last remaining DC-8 airplane back to the Galactic Confederacy before your DNA is contaminated any further than what it is already.

Where's Pazuzu when you need him?

That explains why quite a number of Croats seem to have a stiffness in their right elbow joints when they try to raise their hands!
(Aleks, 23 March 2010 21:59)

Indeed Aleks, there is a propensity amoung a large section of the Croat population for this stiffness to occur in as you have rightly pointed out, the "right elbow joint" especially when one is wearing a black shirt.

Medical experts have been baffled by this phenomena since 1941.

Qiqavica's Albanian

Had you paid enough attention while reading my comment you could have easily draw conclusion that I am no fan of any unions even when it comes to Russia too.
However, I have to emphasize my sentimental feelings when it comes to Slavs and Slav hood.
Emotionally I am very attached to Slavs due to belief that same blood runs through our veins.
That is why I believe that Slavs should form some special ties and cooperate the best they can.
Am I disappointed in some Slavs? Yes I am, very much.

I could explain why I oppose to any Unions, but I’m afraid it would be too long.
I also cannot understand our ex brothers’ wish to join EU after being in YU which was nothing but the evil to them. I'm sure that within EU they have or wil have less rights and no say on anything, far from any equality.
Any way, I wish them all the best on their way to the EU, but at same time hope that Serbia stays out and not make same mistake as it has made by being part of the YU.

And to repeat I do support cooperation but not only with the EU but the entire world.
EU countries should not be privileged over Russia or any other country in this Planet.

it´s long ago, that I hear such a rubbish from the economist...

=)

Serbia won´t lose it´s southern province, and ...even if the EU-comedy failed, it would be even better for Serbia...

time will tell. =)

Biljana wrote "I really hope Serbia stays out of the EU". Well said Biljo', a RU (Russian Union) shall be successful and more realistic for Serbia, since it is an union based on same blood origin.
PS. by the way, make Greece join that new union/RU.

Slovenia is the joke of Balkan politics. She belongs more in "Europe" (EU) than in Balkan politics. Serbia will not take this seriously. Hence the reason Serbia didn't think twice about no-showing at the summit.

Didn't realise that this discussion had descended into farce!

Croats aren't slavs? Give me a break. But ok if you want to make fools of yourselves by showing how insecure you are as a people thats your choice.

If I was a Croat I'd be very embarassed by ridiculous statements like that.

jerko

There is no such thing as Slavic DNA. All that a Slav is is someone who speaks a Slavic language, which would make Croats as Slavic as anybody else. If you are talking about paternal Y-chromasome Haplogroups, then indeed Croats are majority Haplogroup I, which is native to the Balkans, but Serbs also have much of this.

Poles, Czechs, Russians, Ukrainians, Belarussians etc. have high amounts of Haplogroup R1a, but this existed long before the term "Slav" even existed. It is thought to originate from the Black Sea region, and is associated with the original IE invaders of Europe.

I am not so sure about the Iranic theory of Croat origin, from what I know, this arose to try and disassociate themselves from Serbs, who claim to be Slavs.

So yes and no.

jerko, You are totally on the ball with this one. The Croatian DNA has a difference from the Serbs. Yugoslavia tried to destroy this but it has failed.

If you read the daily newspaper in UK, few days ago? it also wrote that British Government was very upset with Spain,s decision, and that as much as the other EU countries are trying to work things out in Balkan, and Spain pulling out it means that Spain could face punishment too, just as Serbia itself for not attending in that meeting, now the question is? would the WEST allow the next meeting in Bosnia?.. well we will have to wait and see, coz the way its going,Even if they invite Kosovo government as a country, i dont believe they,ll show up, neither Croatia, or Slovenia.. and this is?.. again,Revenge on Spain by the other nations, as when it comes to Serbia? Slovenia will slow Serbia down when it comes to the EU, its a fact. but hey, thats life eh,, some win some loose. in this case they are all loosers. way to go you lot, way to go,, just keep up with the good work you are doing fine,lol

sj

True, this is why those "Kosovans", "Kosovars", "Kosovaris" and "Kosovarsovians" will be ultimately disappointed, because squealing "EU membership" a thousand times and being the EU's, ahem, bitch, is just not good enough if you are in a border dispute (not to mention an economy worth nothing).

Anyway, Serbia, Croatia etc. would best do without the EU anyway. It has crippled Western countries so much that even Germans are now coming to work in Poland (!!!), since we have not been poisoned that much:

"Warsaw -- Unemployed Germans have begun travelling to Poland in search of jobs -- in a dramatic reversal of the usual trend for migrant workers.

Thousands of people from Germany are commuting into Poland in an effort to escape the downturn afflicting the country. The strength of the Polish economy and the weakness of its powerful neighbour is behind the change in fortunes.
"

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Germans+seek+jobs+thriving+Poland/2715053/story.html

"If Croatia does not finalise borders with Serbia and the Serb refugee question then no EU for Croatia. "

Umm what does serbia have to do with croatia's eu integration? Only eu members have veto power over croatia, not an upcoming prospect country for eu. Serbia has no say in any of croatias foreign or domestic policies, sorry its not 25 years ago, its 2010.


Slovenes, Croats, Montenegrins and Bosniaks are Slavs, Albanians are Albanians (not Illyrians, there is no proven link yet, not language even. That would be as stupid as saying there are still Scythians, Dacians or Thracians) and "Kosovans" don't exist.

Try an encyclopedia.
(Peter Sudyka, 23 March 2010 14:48)

Croatians have very little slavic dna in us, we have more celtic and germanic dna then anything, followed closely with illyrian dna and then followed closely with aryan(ancient iranic dna). There are many theories about the origins of croats, some think we originated from caucasian iranians because ancient iran sectioned there empire into different colors as did ancient croats did in poland/czech/hungary/russia with red and white croatia, also roman leader armmanius marcellinus mentioned two cities in ancient persia called habroatis and chroates. Some think we came from ancient afghanistan around 900bc, some think we went from iran to afghanistan(haravaitii)mentioned by Darius the Great to poland/czech..etc which i think is the most logical explanation, a lot can happen in 1500years to when croatia kicked out the albanians and settled in present day croatia around 700AD.

(Peter Sudyka, 23 March 2010 14:48)

Rule No1 for joining the EU – there must be no border disputes borders. The EU does not want internal states arguing.
Secondly, Croatia was supplied with money from the EU to repair or replace Serbs homes damaged during the conflict. The Croats have squandered that money very early by including it into their normal budget and now there is nothing left.
This has to be settled before Croatia enters the EU.

Haplogroup I is native to the Middle East and Europe. It can be found in most European populations, most commonly in Scandinavia and Croatia
The highest frequency of the I Haplogroup can be found in Scandinavian and Croatian populations. This lends support to the hypothesis that the Adriatic region of modern-day Croatia served as a refuge for northern populations during the last glacial maximum. The hypothesis states that after the LGM there was a migration from the north east by the people whose offspring today form a significant portion of the Scandinavian populations. These groups seem to be the ancestors of about 38% of modern day Croats (75% of Bosnian Croats).

There are also indications that this haplogroup is tied to the Celtic culture. The spread of the I group in western Europe could be consistent with the Celtic expansion that occurred in the mid-first millennium BC.

Nobody has ever said that newspapers or any other type of media gets everything right. If there is anyone who makes such claims, they are simply mistaken.

But The Economist is by all means the one that is closest than any other to the truth, to the reality and to make the right predictions.

At the end remember that this is not unthought, in the Balkans we have shown it over and over again that we do try to take revenge when we get the chance. This can't be a zero-sum game, can it? It doesn't seem that Slovenia is ready to swallow this and pretend it never happened.

Self pride is among the characteristics of all the Balkan people, nonetheless of its politics at different times.

There is neither no real winners nor real losers from this conference. But some have gained more than others while have lost less than others as well. Serbia is on the second category, while it showed the EU that it is not ready to act up to its European ideals of good neighborhood relations. On the other hand the EU itself showed have unable it is to live up to its promises and provide for itself first of all. No wonder US has to take the lead, otherwise nothing gets done. EU inefficiency at its highest.

Croats aren't slavs? Give me a break. But ok if you want to make fools of yourselves by showing how insecure you are as a people thats your choice.

If I was a Croat I'd be very embarassed by ridiculous statements like that.
(bganon, 24 March 2010 09:55)

It's the
"WE ARE GERMAN BLOSSOMS" theory.
http://www.reformation.org/holoc6.html
It was emphasised greatly during the Ustasa terror in WW2 it came that way because of insecurities of the Croats with the German racial policy towards Slavs. Racial theory was often manipulated to suite the political aims of Germany. Slavs were considered Indo-European Aryans, but subservient and "less perfect" than Germans. German anthropologists, for example, considered the Dinaric race of the Southern Slavs to be superior to all other European races except the Nordics. Prior to 1940, Serbs were viewed particularly favourably. Germans compared the unification of Yugoslavia to that of Germany in the late nineteenth century, considered Serbs as kindred peoples (as descendants of the Germanic Goths who dwelt in the Balkans in late Antiquity), they admired the accomplishments of Serbia's Medieval Emperor Dushan, and had often sympathized with their struggle against the Ottoman Empire.

On top of some Croats being embaressed by a few of their own clowns I could imagine the smirk on some German faces.

The DNA does not lie. Hungarians are still considered the remains of Atilla the Hun. However. DNA testing has proven that the over whelming majority are of German and Slavic stock. Perfect Central Europeans. Anyhow none of this is new or important except to the brotherhood and unity Crowd. Croats and Serbs are not one people. They are not!!!

I am not so sure about the Iranic theory of Croat origin, from what I know, this arose to try and disassociate themselves from Serbs, who claim to be Slavs.

So yes and no.
(Peter Sudyka, 24 March 2010 13:48)

Actually there is a similar thoery about where serbs/ancient serboi came from. But genetically serbs and croats are different DNA doesnt lie.

There is a debate about the term slavic and what kind of dna group that belongs to. Whatever it is, it only makes up 10% of majority of croats dna, germanic/celtic/nordic is 35-40% of our dna, make all your nazi jokes you want, its still the same number. Its funny because serbs have the same dna just not in that percentage, its lower for you guys around 10-15%. Croats have more of the indo-european haplogroup than serbs/bosnians(muslims)/montegrins/macedonians

Slovenes, Croats, Montenegrins and Bosniaks are Slavs, Albanians are Albanians (not Illyrians, there is no proven link yet, not language even. That would be as stupid as saying there are still Scythians, Dacians or Thracians) and "Kosovans" don't exist.

Try an encyclopedia.
(Peter Sudyka, 23 March 2010 14:48)


You see the comment the you make? because there exsists no proven link between Albanians and Illyrians they cant possibly be Illyrians, they are all theories, can you prove were Albanians came from?

theres one theory
maybe Albanopolis?who knows.

hehehe... so here it comes, the amateur genetics antropologists... leave the genetic population studies for the specialists... you're making a big mess out of it. It's like a bad article of self-improvement claiming to be scientific psychology

I thought Croatians were - originally from Sub- Saharan Africa?

Surely - oh wait a minute I'm wrong, that's it - Croatians are originally from? ? ? oh where was it again..I just can't seem to remember anything - I know - let's just make up some b******t and see if that works.

I have travelled extensively across most of the Balkans ( YES CROATIA IS IN THE BALKANS hehe) - you tried that one too didn't you you crazy Croatians - and I can promise you that whatever origin some Croatians tell you they have, you will, I assure you, fall fast asleep before you hear the end of their delusional balderdash!

Some call it SMALL MAN SYNDROME - we can call it SMALL COUNTRY SYNDROME!!

You see the comment the you make? because there exsists no proven link between Albanians and Illyrians they cant possibly be Illyrians, they are all theories, can you prove were Albanians came from?

theres one theory
maybe Albanopolis?who knows.
(Skiff, 24 March 2010 18:36)

Try here,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_Albania
and here,
http://www.joshuaproject.net/peopctry.php?rop3=100222&rog3=TU

You then migrated after the Slavs to the Balkans and like the Serbs and Croats absorbing the local populations you absorbed the Albanian Vlahs aka Illyrians.

Ha ha ha! What a mess! This is what happens when someone wishes to impose a solution not acceptable to one side. Rather than moving balkan countries closer, the Kosovo UDI is turning into a nightmare for the EU and causing balkans states to move further and further away from both the EU and eachother. I hope Slovenia slows Serbias progress towards the EU. It will cause Tadic and co to loose the upcoming election and make it easier for Serbia to create even closer cooperation with Russia.

The Economist, is scary, precise, realistic and very prophetic.

Good luck with your speculation MR. Economist. Unfortunately Mr. President has more say than ever will. How is it such a problem to understand that Serbia is asking the EU to abide by the law, and thats it. Why is it so hard to comprehend the real situation at hand. If the EU chooses to ignore this law, what other laws will they choose to ignore? the EU cannot be trusted, all nations in the Balkans need to stay away. We have our own situations that need to be dealt with and we have no time to full around with EU gentlemens.

It will cause Tadic and co to loose the upcoming election and make it easier for Serbia to create even closer cooperation with Russia.
(Mikael C, 22 March 2010, 17:40)

Just for the record, please expose where you live and stay this in reflection why Serbia should stay outside EU.

Regards

I pray to God that Serbia never ever joins these anti Serb hypocrites.
[...]
(Mikael C, 22 March 2010 20:48)

Indeed, you answered it. You speak of hypocrites when it comes to Serbia's (far future) joining to the EU and condemn this attempt while living in the "evil" heart of the Western world, actually even a country which recognized Kosovo. I think we all understand what you actually mean. Serbia should stay out that you feel comfortable while yourself live also in the comfortable West.

Slovenia could retaliate for humiliation.
--
Slovens Croats Bosniaks Montenegros Kosovans Albanians =
I L L Y R I A N BROTHERS

Let Serbia keep whining on about Kosovo for as long as it wants, it is a waste of their time. Whatever they do they aint gonna get Kosovo back. That is why it is so funny. The real fun will begin once Croatia is in the EU. Then France, Germany, UK, Slovenia, Croatia, Netherlands and Italy can all have their fun and games with Serbia.

...and they said life was gooooood!

Just for the record, please expose where you live and stay this in reflection why Serbia should stay outside EU.

Regards
Berkeley

For your information I live in Sweden who is a EU member since the early 90s. I have seen what EU has brought Sweden and I have no illusions to what it will bring Serbia. If Sweden has no say in EU politics you can just imagine how much leverage Serbia will have, ZERO! Serbia will be forced to do as Germany, UK and France tells them and what will we get in return, some pocketchange at best. How do you think these countries became so powerful? By being nice and helping others? No, by taking what is not theirs and exploiting other people. They have emptied Africa of its recources and made themselves rich while the natives starv. These same countries are trying to force Serbia to give up its own territory and we are not even members yet. We will be hostages in our own land. Perhaps we will loose out on some benifits but to me the important thing is not to be stepped on by others. I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees. I pray to God that Serbia never ever joins these anti Serb hypocrites. People who have illegaly bombed my country and killed my people for the sake of druglords I can never respect or forgive. Also I hope one day to return to my native country of Serbia. Sweden is overrun by hostile muslims and to raise my children in this environment is out of the question. If I had the funds I would leave long ago. I would have less meterial wealth but in return I would have greater human wealth.
Hope I answered your question.

Regards

"If Croatia does not finalise borders with Serbia and the Serb refugee question then no EU for Croatia. "

Umm what does serbia have to do with croatia's eu integration? Only eu members have veto power over croatia, not an upcoming prospect country for eu. Serbia has no say in any of croatias foreign or domestic policies, sorry its not 25 years ago, its 2010.


Slovenes, Croats, Montenegrins and Bosniaks are Slavs, Albanians are Albanians (not Illyrians, there is no proven link yet, not language even. That would be as stupid as saying there are still Scythians, Dacians or Thracians) and "Kosovans" don't exist.

Try an encyclopedia.
(Peter Sudyka, 23 March 2010 14:48)

Croatians have very little slavic dna in us, we have more celtic and germanic dna then anything, followed closely with illyrian dna and then followed closely with aryan(ancient iranic dna). There are many theories about the origins of croats, some think we originated from caucasian iranians because ancient iran sectioned there empire into different colors as did ancient croats did in poland/czech/hungary/russia with red and white croatia, also roman leader armmanius marcellinus mentioned two cities in ancient persia called habroatis and chroates. Some think we came from ancient afghanistan around 900bc, some think we went from iran to afghanistan(haravaitii)mentioned by Darius the Great to poland/czech..etc which i think is the most logical explanation, a lot can happen in 1500years to when croatia kicked out the albanians and settled in present day croatia around 700AD.

Biljana wrote "I really hope Serbia stays out of the EU". Well said Biljo', a RU (Russian Union) shall be successful and more realistic for Serbia, since it is an union based on same blood origin.
PS. by the way, make Greece join that new union/RU.

Slovenia tried to act like a regional power and was subsequently put in it's place. Instead of "revenge", they should take it as a useful lesson. i.e. act according to your international standing.

The Economist, is scary, precise, realistic and very prophetic.
(alproud)
-
Pathetic is word I know your looking for. :)

The Economist is so wrong, and this is such lazy and shoddy journalism it's pathetic. Moratinos didn't attend because Spain agrees with Serbia, and Spain does not recognize the fake, illegal, and immoral 'state' of Kosovo. The upcoming conference, chaired by Spain, will have Kosovo-UNMIK as the representative. Take it or leave it.
As for Slovenia being able to somehow get revenge on or 'hurt' Serbia?? Bring it on I say. Serbs should boycott all Slovenian products, and then let's see them try to find a market somewhere else.
Cheers!!

If you read the daily newspaper in UK, few days ago? it also wrote that British Government was very upset with Spain,s decision, and that as much as the other EU countries are trying to work things out in Balkan, and Spain pulling out it means that Spain could face punishment too, just as Serbia itself for not attending in that meeting, now the question is? would the WEST allow the next meeting in Bosnia?.. well we will have to wait and see, coz the way its going,Even if they invite Kosovo government as a country, i dont believe they,ll show up, neither Croatia, or Slovenia.. and this is?.. again,Revenge on Spain by the other nations, as when it comes to Serbia? Slovenia will slow Serbia down when it comes to the EU, its a fact. but hey, thats life eh,, some win some loose. in this case they are all loosers. way to go you lot, way to go,, just keep up with the good work you are doing fine,lol

jerko, You are totally on the ball with this one. The Croatian DNA has a difference from the Serbs. Yugoslavia tried to destroy this but it has failed.

Who wrote this garbage, Robert Kaplan?

The Economist has always been mindlessly pro-Western and keen to blame any shortcoming of internationalism on recalcitrant non-Westerners. Not a surprise the article lays the blame for the meeting's failure on Belgrade's doorstep because it's a convenient way to cover up the mistakes, arrogances, and diplomatic shortcomings of the EU. The Economist is also rabidly pro-Kosovo and likes to think the Balkans are still run by a bunch of Borats ready to kill each other at moment's notice. I daresay Slovenia would be interested in getting "revenge" on Serbia, but since the article conveniently overlooked the caveat that Tadic had no problem with Pristina being present as long as it was represented as Kosovo-UNMIK (yes, I know, why bother to let details get in a the way of biased reporting), it's easy to portray the most important country in the region as seeped in some nationalistic past that yadda yadda yadda and blah blah blah.

Oh, those stupid Serbs. Why don't the just bend over and take it like everyone else in the region does? Who are they to upstage us? They're not even a real country, you know. I mean look at the way they have such funny sounding names? What are they? Mutant Russians or something? They've been a thorn in the side of progress ever since Gavrilo Princip started World War II when he shot the King of Scotland (or something like that - the point is that Serbs are dumb).

Convenient also how the article failed to mention the Bosnian delegation walking out on Thaci, and von Rompuy's unexplained absence. If Serbia is as powerful as the article claims to upset an entire meeting and keep the EU leaders away, Slovenia's going to have a hard time indeed getting its "vendetta".

The "Blame Serbia" strategy is getting so pathetic.

The economist is best described as a “western rag”. Its main purpose is to spread propaganda and espouse the goodness and niceness of capitalism and the nastiness of anything else that does not cow tail to US policy. I used to be a subscriber but after 6 months cancelled that subscription – it was blatant spin and rubbish.

“Later this year, a major EU-Balkans summit is planned in Sarajevo….. If Serbia stays away again, the consequences could be grave,” the magazine adds”.

Another EU/US bluff. They are trying to force the Serbian people’s hand, but when the majority of Serbs don’t care about the EU it’s hard and what are the consequences if Serbia does not go, well no EU. How coincidental that Serbs want that too!


The only reason Germany wants to stop enlargement is because there are now too many mouths to feed let alone bring more into the fold.
Slovenia’s revenge is to slow down Serbia’s into the EU, what a joke. It will be the first time the “tail wagged the dog” in history. Slovenia does what its told and nothing more or less – it would STARVE without EU funds..
Here is also some news. If Croatia does not finalise borders with Serbia and the Serb refugee question then no EU for Croatia. Kosovo cannot go into the EU without Serbia.
“I’ll huff and puff and blow your how down”. Believe me when I say that if the US/EU had the military might they would have used it yesterday on Serbia, but they don’t and all that’s left is empty and idle threats.

Her is my prediction for the so called Sarajevo conference – No UMNIK Kosovo Res 1224, no Serbia, but the west will huff and puff blah, blah and later on call for another conference and give Serbia a 100th last chance to attend or else!!!!!!!……...

The Economist, is scary, precise, realistic and very prophetic.
(alproud, 22 March 2010 17:57)

Yeah, we saw that ahead of financial crisis. Ups.

Nobody can predict Serbia BTW, not even ourselves.

Are you persisting in being the mouth piece of Nato and the Anglo-Americans?

ZBOGOM SRBIJO!
Adio Serbia!

I will never understand how the years have passed so quickly. Like yesterday it was January 1990. I was a young man freshly released from communist Romania and I was discovering Yugoslavia as a wonderful park. Too little we were together and too soon we have seen each other in different conditions.

Sunset has become increasingly red towards Yugoslavia. The sky was filled with flames and blood and screaming like the west wind and I was too early in my career as a reporter of war. Under my eyes and at the pace of my texts pieces of Yugoslavia were broken. The country which delighted me so much was bleeding in front of a poor Romanian journalist. I watched them turn into people like my grandparents that every year trim the roses and the vineyard. So the Serbs seemed sure that after all that had to leave will leave what remains in their yard will be reborn recovering from injuries. I have opened my eyes more and around me were not my grandparents but desperate and wounded people. On the ground laid the dead. I was in Vukovar and I felt then what followed soon to say - Adio Yugoslavia!

Again the years passed and I was still there. Bosnia went. Croatia too. Slovenia is now a long forgotten chapter. Yugoslavia was only a name. Became increasingly small, uglier and very tired.

Then came 1999. Almost a decade had passed since my eyes were looking into showcases notable of foreign films and discovering the at Toblerone Cipiripi and Coca Cola in bottles of one liter ... and fluffy white bread and a society devoid of fears and prejudices. But again the Serbs were the most hated and most violent people on the planet. I was seeing that on CNN and if I looked around it was a country with some friendly people and maybe with a lot of honor that compels them to be patriotic. Patriotism seemed hard to understand in Romania.

NATO bombed the old Yugoslavia. They hit it all that was most valuable. In factories, in monasteries, in maternity, television and civilians. Felt like those bombs were falling on our heads too. All to protect the rights of Albanians in Kosovo.

Well, but Kosovo is not a point on the map as it is seen by those who share their own justice. It's still that holy place in which and for which the earth soaked in Serbian blood. Not the Serbs started to kill. Only after more than 20 years of horrors committed by Albanians, the Serbs have jumped from their door hinges and went south to apply a correction to the Muslims. YES. Unfortunately it was rather sturdy and led to other dramas and other tombs have sprung. New cemeteries were filled and too many women were dressed in black. They cried their children and men in churches or mosques when there was no need for the marble to be washed with tears.

I will leave it for my colleagues who think NATO has done well what it did, to disseminate obsessive images of poor Albanians killed Serbs. I showed you some less viewed ones, with Serbs sent to God by Albanians.

Now myself scratched and dull after so many wars and troubles I look back at the time when we were still young. Me and Yugoslavia. It was, and it is not coming back. Of what was once, remained only Serbia. Sad.

PRESENT again:

I just stayed in Kosovo for almost a month to live as all people living there. After so many funerals I attended a birth. It was the birth of Kosovo.

Now I look glum ahead and may only tell you so ADIO SERBIA! You're too old and I do not understand how you thought you can stand a birth .... Didn’t you know that’s going to hurt.

Mile Carpenisan 02 March 2008


Mile, a war reporter of Antena 1 Tv, died today in Timisoara, 34 years old. Maybe he was one of Serbia's best friends in Romania and I can still hear his words when reporting (the only I think)from a Belgrade under bombardement "They're trying to catch me, stop me. I will not let them. I can't. I won't."
Just thought this should show up on a serbian website.

Since when is the 'The Economist' a daily? When basic facts like these are wrong... not to mention that the Economist is Russo and Serbophobic, the famous croatophile Marcus Tanner being their Balkans correspondent.

As to the content of the article, Serbia is not Croatia.

B92 recently reported that Slovenian company Gorenje is building large facilities in Serbia to help them expand rapidly.

If the slovene government really wants to sabotage its own economy and companies, then go ahead and try to 'slow down' Serbia's accession. You will see the results rather quickly not only from Serbia but much larger EU member states who will not accept such childish and damaging behavior from Slovenia. With Croatia, at least they had the coastal fig-leaf and ended up with egg on their face.

And all this on the back of the current Slovenian government propaganda about a 'united balkans'. It would show them to be the arrogant hypocrites that they are.

They just cannot stop looking down their noses at their neighbors however hard they try, no change from the SFRY then.

"Slovenia tried to act like a regional power and was subsequently put in it's place. Instead of "revenge", they should take it as a useful lesson. i.e. act according to your international standing."
(dingdong, 22 March 2010 21:00)

Exactly!

Great and interesting comments on this thread, ranging from the heartfelt and interesting to the bandwagon jumpers [eg. Ian 'big man' UK: "You ain't gonna get Kosovo back"].

The comments coming from Slovenia are just ridiculous. Straight after the conference the PM was quoted as saying "everyone should just recognise every else".

That just shows such a simplistic, undeveloped and low level of diplomatic skills. You don't try and force recognition of a breakaway province by its sovereign state via the back door, especially with such amateurish tactics.

You don't refuse the request to not have the province named as a state at the 'international conference' and then start chucking your dummy out the pram because the sovereign state won't play along.

And now Slovenia are threatening to hold up Serbia's entry to the EU? I think that others on this thread have put it excellently: why does Serbia need to be in the EU?

Plus, if Serbia did wish to join, what exactly would Sloevnia do to hold up entry? Do they think that they would be allowed to do that by the major EU states?

Dear Mikael I write this post just to thank you for demonstrating that people who love their countries are still existing.
I do understand you and your feelings about NATO bombing in Serbia.
I do understand your need to be back at home.
I do understand much more the fact that you prefere to get away from a place that's fullfilled by muslims, because it is the same thing that's happening in my country at the moment.
I also think that EU didn't bring only good things to my country even if we joined the EU many years ago.
I really admire you for your love for your country and your people. I hope to be the same as you with my country and my people.
Do your best to reach every objective you got in your life and if you desire to be back in Serbia I wish you can do it soon.
Defend your culture and do not allow anyone to throw dust on your flag and heritage.
Be proud to be what you are my friend.
Hope to talk to you again.

Slovenia could have its “revenge” on Serbia. Yes the Slovenians can be very vindictive. Croatia has experienced it many times. From denying Ex Yugo depositors money in the Ljubljanska Bank. To riping off power of the 50/50 owned Krsk nuclear power plant. By the withholding and using the power of 100s of millions worth of Croatia share. Trying to bully Croatia of ceding territory that international law confirmed it is on Croatian side etc. Now Serbia has the vengeful little yelping snarling chihuahua hot on its tracks. Slovenians of its many perceived or imaginary of being slighted to edge it on for revenge maybe its handler will tell it shut up enjoy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDYDVZ0LFd0&feature=related

"By wrecking the Brdo summit, Tadić won a battle, but he cannot win the war. Smarting from its humiliation, Slovenia’s government may choose to take revenge by slowing the EU’s integration process with Serbia."

My only comment would be that actually this is up to Serbia if this would happen or not.

"By wrecking the Brdo summit, Tadić won a battle, but he cannot win the war. Smarting from its humiliation, Slovenia’s government may choose to take revenge by slowing the EU’s integration process with Serbia."


Well It will give also the opportunity for "change" in Serbia by the people electing ULTRA NATIONALIST figures and stamp out the Pro-Western DS party and its socialist ally. Go on and deny Serbia an EU Membership.

This is all just lip service. Serbia's participation in the conference was not impossible at all but it was prevented by the hosts. Besides it was only one minor, informal conference, nothing really official.

The Economist guys just wanted to see history going their way. In a typically colonial way...

thank you slovenia, please slow down the integration process... don't let serbia join the eu, until the eu ceases to exist. thanks again!

"Slovenia could retaliate for humiliation"... and ignite that "gorenje" plant?

I see some contradiction in the article, assuming that Serbia's path will be made much longer and that Slovenian or German government will be still the same despite the prolonged time. And I am not sure, what shape will be EU around 2015 when things will happen in earnest.

Where the article is right: Serbia won't be EU member in 2012 together with Iceland and Croatia. But is it a news?

According to this, the "revenge" would come with Slovenia opting to "slow down Serbia's EU integration process".
--
Oh, that's not revenge, that's a reward!
==
"By wrecking the Brdo summit, Tadić won a battle, but he cannot win the war."
--
The war is already won. Russia and China have made sure of that.
==
“Later this year, a major EU-Balkans summit is planned in Sarajevo, and the EU is increasing pressure on the states of the region to improve their mutual relations. If Serbia stays away again, the consequences could be grave,” the daily adds.
--
Why would Serbia stay away when Spain will be abiding by international law? The question is, will UNMIK-Kosovo attend? The answer is "who cares?"
==
“Many powerful voices in the EU, including Germany’s ruling Christian Democrats, want to see a long pause in enlargement for 'digestion' once the EU takes in Iceland and Croatia, possibly in 2012. They won't mind a bit if Tadić insists on putting Kosovo before Europe. If that happens, Serbia, which long ago lost Kosovo, may lose the EU,” the Economist believes.
--
Please, slow down the process. I think what will happen is the EU will in fact lose the Balkans, not the other way around. The Orthodox and Muslim worlds live in the East and we should align ourselves there.

Revenge..tit for tat ...i'll show you...come on what is this 3rd grade ??? though its not out of question for EU states to act in this manner e.g. "the netherlands" i doubt any backlash is coming.

Last week only proves Serbia has advanced its self politicaly. Diplomacy and rule of law are on our side they who choose otherwise will lack results always !

"By wrecking the Brdo summit, Tadić won a battle, but he cannot win the war. Smarting from its humiliation, Slovenia’s government may choose to take revenge by slowing the EU’s integration process with Serbia."
B92

This fool sounds like he gots some serious heat coming from under that rhinestone collar of his.

And now he be butt-hurt and bent on revenge, and wants to win some battles too, and prevent Tadich so he can't win the war??

What war N ?

I am telling you, this fool has got no originality nor wisdom. If my mama heard him talk like that,she would make him write twelve hundred and forty four times:

I WILL BE WORKING ON MY SELF TO ENJOY LIFE WITHOUT ANY DISRESPECTFUL COMMENTS!

Anyways, without Tadich you'all looked like a herd of sheep waiting for the ram.

WOW !!! talking about killing two birds with one stone.

Humiliating Slovenija and not going in the EU... GOLDEN

Revenge? More like good news!! Serbia does not need to be in the EU, look at how Germany is treating Greece!
Yes i do live in a western country but theres not much i can get here that Serbs can't get in Serbia if they are working.
Instead of driving a BMW here i would be driving a Fiat over there, at least i wouldnt be working 12hrs a day and waiting for the weekend.
Here you work 30 years to pay off your house while in Serbia most people own their houses and don't need to pay interest for 30 years!
The westerners just hate that Serbia can live on it's own, no credit cards, no huge home/personal loans.
Capitalism where there rich get richer and everyone else works for them!
Serbia stay out of EU!
Once i have saved enough, i will sell the house, sell the car and Serbia baby here i come!
Nema nista bolje od Srpstva!

As far as I'm concerned Slovenia would make us great favour by blocking our EU path.
I really hope Serbia stays out of the EU.

To make it clear, I'm all for every kind of bilateral cooperation with the EU, and not only with the EU but the entire world.

However, cooperation does not have to take place at any costs by imposing some unacceptable conditions on Serbia as Slovenia and Croatia tried to do days ago.

Serbia's decision not to take part in this comedy was more than right one and I'm very pleased by the president's final decision even though, in general I have little respect for him and his yellow pals.

Let Serbia keep whining on about Kosovo for as long as it wants, it is a waste of their time. Whatever they do they aint gonna get Kosovo back. That is why it is so funny. The real fun will begin once Croatia is in the EU. Then France, Germany, UK, Slovenia, Croatia, Netherlands and Italy can all have their fun and games with Serbia.

...and they said life was gooooood!
(Ian, UK, 22 March 2010 18:44)
======================

Ian, you keep saying that you are not Albanian, but you sound more vengeful and hateful than some Albanians here.
If it was up to you, perhaps you would try to have "fun" with Serbia, but we are dealing with politicians who don't care beyond their own interests.

Haplogroup I is native to the Middle East and Europe. It can be found in most European populations, most commonly in Scandinavia and Croatia
The highest frequency of the I Haplogroup can be found in Scandinavian and Croatian populations. This lends support to the hypothesis that the Adriatic region of modern-day Croatia served as a refuge for northern populations during the last glacial maximum. The hypothesis states that after the LGM there was a migration from the north east by the people whose offspring today form a significant portion of the Scandinavian populations. These groups seem to be the ancestors of about 38% of modern day Croats (75% of Bosnian Croats).

There are also indications that this haplogroup is tied to the Celtic culture. The spread of the I group in western Europe could be consistent with the Celtic expansion that occurred in the mid-first millennium BC.

Slovenia has a very low population of Albanians. It did not allow them to stay and establish any sort of a grouping.

The worst cynical racist attitude I have ever experienced was in Slovenia in the middle of a tourist area (and I will continue to take opportunity to repeat that for a long while yet. It was not even directed at me, but it shocked me.).

There is nothing that Slovenia would do to preserve Kosovo as a udi - except for the purposes of spiting Serbia of course.

Possibly that is what happened here.

Slovenia created the problem at this conference but then (according to this report) could squeal when they do not get their own way.

Was this deliberate provocation? - or were they stupid enough not to know what was going to happen?

If Slovenia thinks it has any particular blocking power, think again. If the EU in general wants Serbia in, Slovenia has no real say.

Serbian politicians have an obligation to retain Kosovo. But more than than that, it has every reason not to reward the ethnic cleansing of Serbs that predated Milosevic and was part of the mono-ethnic ambition of Albanians that was a big part of the problem in the first place.

There does need to be a future where all people cooperate, but not with this very artificial creation of a second Albanian state. I suggest that it is time to come up with a more permanent autonomous status that is UN lead and in which the interests of all sides have legal weight.

Yes, let Slovenia sulk and juice up the prices on their tuna pate, ovens and other items in their shopping malls in Belgrade - who cares! There are other ovens to use, other pates and other goods to buy in other stores elsewhere.

It's just Saatchi and his first cousin Saatchi spending Us and Eu tax payers money lobbying for Albanian separatist and their sponsors. Nothing in other words :) Nada :)

Nobody has ever said that newspapers or any other type of media gets everything right. If there is anyone who makes such claims, they are simply mistaken.

But The Economist is by all means the one that is closest than any other to the truth, to the reality and to make the right predictions.

At the end remember that this is not unthought, in the Balkans we have shown it over and over again that we do try to take revenge when we get the chance. This can't be a zero-sum game, can it? It doesn't seem that Slovenia is ready to swallow this and pretend it never happened.

Self pride is among the characteristics of all the Balkan people, nonetheless of its politics at different times.

There is neither no real winners nor real losers from this conference. But some have gained more than others while have lost less than others as well. Serbia is on the second category, while it showed the EU that it is not ready to act up to its European ideals of good neighborhood relations. On the other hand the EU itself showed have unable it is to live up to its promises and provide for itself first of all. No wonder US has to take the lead, otherwise nothing gets done. EU inefficiency at its highest.

@ ADRIAN

Thank you for bringing us back the warm memories of a dear friend, honest and brave - brave to voice his feelings in the times when many forgot even the word friendship.
He will be remembered with respect by people who know to be grateful.

God bless his soul, may he rest in peace.

"Slovenia could retaliate for humiliation.
--
Slovens Croats Bosniaks Montenegros Kosovans Albanians =
I L L Y R I A N BROTHERS
(Rocky, 22 March 2010 22:20) "

Slovenes, Croats, Montenegrins and Bosniaks are Slavs, Albanians are Albanians (not Illyrians, there is no proven link yet, not language even. That would be as stupid as saying there are still Scythians, Dacians or Thracians) and "Kosovans" don't exist.

Try an encyclopedia.

Hahahahahahahhahahahahaaaaa

Does it means that we don´t have to listen Jelko "Tannenbaum" Kacin´s statements anymore?

Nice.

LOL @ Mladen

yeah, where´s the "punishment" ....?

Slovenia stole not just the investments of the other 5 YU-republics into it´s economy, but also the banksavings of 23 million yougoslavs.

Most of this money ended up in Serbia, as "investments".

see, the Slovenians are clever enough to know that EU doesn´t feed anybody.

but producing in Serbia and afterwards selling in Russia, without obstacles and taxes, is far more clever.

look at gorenjes cash-cow, it´s luxury line. that is produced in Serbia, sold in Serbia and Russia. While they sell it´s ordinary goods in EU ...

the economist shouldn´t shoot with empty and foreign guns, but concentrate on their funny cartoons and even funnier political statements ...
While it´s standard

The Economist, is scary, precise, realistic and very prophetic.
(alproud, 22 March 2010 17:57)

LOL. Yes they predicted no economic crisis, they were correct.

LOL. They predicted by the end of 2001 Djindjic would recognize Kosovo. We see how correct they were.

"According to this, the "revenge" would come with Slovenia opting to "slow down Serbia's EU integration process".

These are the writings from the Economist or is it Hello magazine I cannot tell them apart the quality looks the same. "Revenge" hahaha
what magazine publishes such tripe, these are countries we are talking about not two females scorn at a bar.
How many other papers have taken this story on, or is it just that the shareholders at the Rosthchild family bank be looking for revenge?

“Many powerful voices in the EU, including Germany’s ruling Christian Democrats, want to see a long pause in enlargement for 'digestion' once the EU takes in Iceland and Croatia, possibly in 2012. They won't mind a bit if Tadić insists on putting Kosovo before Europe. If that happens, Serbia, which long ago lost Kosovo, may lose the EU,” the Economist believes.

So they want to sacrifice this?
http://businessneweurope.eu/story1953/Serbia_and_Germany_put_history_behind_them
No skin of Serbia's nose it has all the trade deals it needs to still attract EU investment.
If the Economist now beleives an unquoted CDP is going all out and it's true then I'm setting up traps for the Easter bunny before it's too late.

As for the next conference in a country that does not recognise Kosovo, Tadic might just be there.

The Economist, is scary, precise, realistic and very prophetic.
(alproud, 22 March 2010 17:57)

I still have that famous edition of the Economist from August 2008 tucked away somewhere in my drawer predicting that the credit crunch was over a full 1 month before Lehman Bros went kaput.

Any time I'm in need of some comic relief, out it comes :)

the Economist is about as prophetic and realistic as Sejdiu and Thaci.

Slovenia is the joke of Balkan politics. She belongs more in "Europe" (EU) than in Balkan politics. Serbia will not take this seriously. Hence the reason Serbia didn't think twice about no-showing at the summit.

"Yugoslavia tried to destroy this but it has failed." (Tibor)

-- Hmm. Croats had a significant hand in creating Yugoslavia. Isn't that a wrench in your myth of origin? Your grandparents and at least 15 generations of Slavic Croatians before them were indeed horrible people in the eyes of your Sumerian, Hittite, Scythian ancestors and their overlord Xenu. Best you take whatever is left of the Horvath race and fly them in the last remaining DC-8 airplane back to the Galactic Confederacy before your DNA is contaminated any further than what it is already.

Where's Pazuzu when you need him?

it´s long ago, that I hear such a rubbish from the economist...

=)

Serbia won´t lose it´s southern province, and ...even if the EU-comedy failed, it would be even better for Serbia...

time will tell. =)

"Croatians have very little slavic dna in us, we have more celtic and germanic dna then anything..."

That explains why quite a number of Croats seem to have a stiffness in their right elbow joints when they try to raise their hands!

(Peter Sudyka, 23 March 2010 14:48)

Rule No1 for joining the EU – there must be no border disputes borders. The EU does not want internal states arguing.
Secondly, Croatia was supplied with money from the EU to repair or replace Serbs homes damaged during the conflict. The Croats have squandered that money very early by including it into their normal budget and now there is nothing left.
This has to be settled before Croatia enters the EU.

Didn't realise that this discussion had descended into farce!

Croats aren't slavs? Give me a break. But ok if you want to make fools of yourselves by showing how insecure you are as a people thats your choice.

If I was a Croat I'd be very embarassed by ridiculous statements like that.

I am not so sure about the Iranic theory of Croat origin, from what I know, this arose to try and disassociate themselves from Serbs, who claim to be Slavs.

So yes and no.
(Peter Sudyka, 24 March 2010 13:48)

Actually there is a similar thoery about where serbs/ancient serboi came from. But genetically serbs and croats are different DNA doesnt lie.

There is a debate about the term slavic and what kind of dna group that belongs to. Whatever it is, it only makes up 10% of majority of croats dna, germanic/celtic/nordic is 35-40% of our dna, make all your nazi jokes you want, its still the same number. Its funny because serbs have the same dna just not in that percentage, its lower for you guys around 10-15%. Croats have more of the indo-european haplogroup than serbs/bosnians(muslims)/montegrins/macedonians

I pray to God that Serbia never ever joins these anti Serb hypocrites.
[...]
(Mikael C, 22 March 2010 20:48)

Indeed, you answered it. You speak of hypocrites when it comes to Serbia's (far future) joining to the EU and condemn this attempt while living in the "evil" heart of the Western world, actually even a country which recognized Kosovo. I think we all understand what you actually mean. Serbia should stay out that you feel comfortable while yourself live also in the comfortable West.
(Berkeley, 23 March 2010 00:18)

I thought the only inspired thing that came out Berkley was a pair of them Birkenstocks.

Now tell me, why you wanna be picking on, and attacking a brother that's done no harm to you, or anybody else for that matter? Alls he doing is speaking his mind--he can't do no harm to you. Trust me on that one!

And besides, the brother was praying to the Lord--lookey up on top in the first row of the letters or lookey below, and read your brother praying:

"I pray to God that Serbia never ever joins these anti Serb hypocrites".

And I says,Amen! Brother.

Now, are you gonna attack me or leave me a poor comment for also speaking
my mind and not yours?

Watch out for them illusions-- they mess with peoples minds,big time.

"PS. by the way, make Greece join that new union/RU."
(Qiqavica's Albanian)

-- Hmm, a neo-Byzantine Empire, eh? Sounds pretty good if you ask me, but I'm not contributing unless two conditions are met.

1. They regain control of Turkey.

2. The capital of the RU is moved to Constantinople. Moscow/St. Petersburg is way too cold. :P

Qiqavica's Albanian

Had you paid enough attention while reading my comment you could have easily draw conclusion that I am no fan of any unions even when it comes to Russia too.
However, I have to emphasize my sentimental feelings when it comes to Slavs and Slav hood.
Emotionally I am very attached to Slavs due to belief that same blood runs through our veins.
That is why I believe that Slavs should form some special ties and cooperate the best they can.
Am I disappointed in some Slavs? Yes I am, very much.

I could explain why I oppose to any Unions, but I’m afraid it would be too long.
I also cannot understand our ex brothers’ wish to join EU after being in YU which was nothing but the evil to them. I'm sure that within EU they have or wil have less rights and no say on anything, far from any equality.
Any way, I wish them all the best on their way to the EU, but at same time hope that Serbia stays out and not make same mistake as it has made by being part of the YU.

And to repeat I do support cooperation but not only with the EU but the entire world.
EU countries should not be privileged over Russia or any other country in this Planet.

jerko

There is no such thing as Slavic DNA. All that a Slav is is someone who speaks a Slavic language, which would make Croats as Slavic as anybody else. If you are talking about paternal Y-chromasome Haplogroups, then indeed Croats are majority Haplogroup I, which is native to the Balkans, but Serbs also have much of this.

Poles, Czechs, Russians, Ukrainians, Belarussians etc. have high amounts of Haplogroup R1a, but this existed long before the term "Slav" even existed. It is thought to originate from the Black Sea region, and is associated with the original IE invaders of Europe.

I am not so sure about the Iranic theory of Croat origin, from what I know, this arose to try and disassociate themselves from Serbs, who claim to be Slavs.

So yes and no.

That explains why quite a number of Croats seem to have a stiffness in their right elbow joints when they try to raise their hands!
(Aleks, 23 March 2010 21:59)

Indeed Aleks, there is a propensity amoung a large section of the Croat population for this stiffness to occur in as you have rightly pointed out, the "right elbow joint" especially when one is wearing a black shirt.

Medical experts have been baffled by this phenomena since 1941.

sj

True, this is why those "Kosovans", "Kosovars", "Kosovaris" and "Kosovarsovians" will be ultimately disappointed, because squealing "EU membership" a thousand times and being the EU's, ahem, bitch, is just not good enough if you are in a border dispute (not to mention an economy worth nothing).

Anyway, Serbia, Croatia etc. would best do without the EU anyway. It has crippled Western countries so much that even Germans are now coming to work in Poland (!!!), since we have not been poisoned that much:

"Warsaw -- Unemployed Germans have begun travelling to Poland in search of jobs -- in a dramatic reversal of the usual trend for migrant workers.

Thousands of people from Germany are commuting into Poland in an effort to escape the downturn afflicting the country. The strength of the Polish economy and the weakness of its powerful neighbour is behind the change in fortunes.
"

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Germans+seek+jobs+thriving+Poland/2715053/story.html

Croats aren't slavs? Give me a break. But ok if you want to make fools of yourselves by showing how insecure you are as a people thats your choice.

If I was a Croat I'd be very embarassed by ridiculous statements like that.
(bganon, 24 March 2010 09:55)

It's the
"WE ARE GERMAN BLOSSOMS" theory.
http://www.reformation.org/holoc6.html
It was emphasised greatly during the Ustasa terror in WW2 it came that way because of insecurities of the Croats with the German racial policy towards Slavs. Racial theory was often manipulated to suite the political aims of Germany. Slavs were considered Indo-European Aryans, but subservient and "less perfect" than Germans. German anthropologists, for example, considered the Dinaric race of the Southern Slavs to be superior to all other European races except the Nordics. Prior to 1940, Serbs were viewed particularly favourably. Germans compared the unification of Yugoslavia to that of Germany in the late nineteenth century, considered Serbs as kindred peoples (as descendants of the Germanic Goths who dwelt in the Balkans in late Antiquity), they admired the accomplishments of Serbia's Medieval Emperor Dushan, and had often sympathized with their struggle against the Ottoman Empire.

On top of some Croats being embaressed by a few of their own clowns I could imagine the smirk on some German faces.

Slovenes, Croats, Montenegrins and Bosniaks are Slavs, Albanians are Albanians (not Illyrians, there is no proven link yet, not language even. That would be as stupid as saying there are still Scythians, Dacians or Thracians) and "Kosovans" don't exist.

Try an encyclopedia.
(Peter Sudyka, 23 March 2010 14:48)


You see the comment the you make? because there exsists no proven link between Albanians and Illyrians they cant possibly be Illyrians, they are all theories, can you prove were Albanians came from?

theres one theory
maybe Albanopolis?who knows.

hehehe... so here it comes, the amateur genetics antropologists... leave the genetic population studies for the specialists... you're making a big mess out of it. It's like a bad article of self-improvement claiming to be scientific psychology

I thought Croatians were - originally from Sub- Saharan Africa?

Surely - oh wait a minute I'm wrong, that's it - Croatians are originally from? ? ? oh where was it again..I just can't seem to remember anything - I know - let's just make up some b******t and see if that works.

I have travelled extensively across most of the Balkans ( YES CROATIA IS IN THE BALKANS hehe) - you tried that one too didn't you you crazy Croatians - and I can promise you that whatever origin some Croatians tell you they have, you will, I assure you, fall fast asleep before you hear the end of their delusional balderdash!

Some call it SMALL MAN SYNDROME - we can call it SMALL COUNTRY SYNDROME!!

You see the comment the you make? because there exsists no proven link between Albanians and Illyrians they cant possibly be Illyrians, they are all theories, can you prove were Albanians came from?

theres one theory
maybe Albanopolis?who knows.
(Skiff, 24 March 2010 18:36)

Try here,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_Albania
and here,
http://www.joshuaproject.net/peopctry.php?rop3=100222&rog3=TU

You then migrated after the Slavs to the Balkans and like the Serbs and Croats absorbing the local populations you absorbed the Albanian Vlahs aka Illyrians.

The DNA does not lie. Hungarians are still considered the remains of Atilla the Hun. However. DNA testing has proven that the over whelming majority are of German and Slavic stock. Perfect Central Europeans. Anyhow none of this is new or important except to the brotherhood and unity Crowd. Croats and Serbs are not one people. They are not!!!