Serbia "heavily indebted" country

"He also noted that Serbia’s situation is "not far from the Greek scenario", because Serbia is spending "25 percent more than it earns".

Well well,...

Does Serbia knows that just lke Greece is going to sell territory pay Loans.

Albanians need to pull their sleves and begin to recover the lost territory by buying Presevo valley first to be followed by Nis and Novi Pazar.

"That is six percent under the mark that separates Serbia from countries in high debt, economist Mlađen Kovačević told daily Večernje Novosti." Does this guy think we are all idiots?? 805 or 74%. They are both HIGH levels of debt, especially when you have a country which has little or no economy to speak of. Serbia is like Greece 5 or 10 years ago, and we've sen the ultimate result - a near bankrupt Greece. Somebody should grow a pair and tell the population that they can't keep borrowing and spending so much money. e.g. pensions. they are high by the standards of some western countries, never mind the balkans. It simply has to stop and the public need to know that the country is spending beyond it's means.

PRN "Albanians need to pull their sleves and begin to recover the lost territory by buying Presevo valley first to be followed by Nis and Novi Pazar." AND Kosovo-USA "I wonder how serbia will ever get out of this debt.Some on in this site claim that serbia is the economical power in Balkans!!!"

Thanks for the concern about Serbia's debt but you should take a look closer to home. If you think Serbia is in dire straights, then "Kosovoa" is right at the bottom of the pile, beyond even Greece. Serbia should use it's debt to buy parts of Albania because Albania is a basket case financially as well. It's al well and good having tens of children per family but now that the chickens come home to roast you realise that you don't have two cents to rub together. So much for the Albanian grand plan.

I wonder how serbia will ever get out of this debt.Some on in this site claim that serbia is the economical power in Balkans!!!
(Kosova-USA,)
-
And you think KosovoUNMIK is the power? KosovoUNMIK has no economy to be in debt, no money is being made there at all.

So what do u suggest Kosova-USA? Join EU and get financial backing, which would put Serbia in even more debt? Obviously Serbian politics interest you, you are contantly on this site. You know how the fate of KosovoUNMIK is in the hands of Serbia, and Serbia alone. The stance she made is very clear, and simple. Now you say that "people" claim that Serbia is the "economic" power-house of the Balkans, sounds even strange to me, BUT isnt it even stranger that even the EU have said this? And what do you think this conference in Slovenia was about. The Balkans need Serbia, whether they like it or not. You need Serbia especially, since in fact it is your governement. Good day

Let's put this news into perspective. Take a look at the respective economies of Serbia, Albania and "Kosova" according to the Albanians closest ally, the US. It's all there to see on the CIA world factbook. If I were Albanian, I'd bow my head in shame at the figures

"Albanians need to pull their sleves and begin to recover the lost territory by buying Presevo valley first to be followed by Nis and Novi Pazar."
PRN

How are you going to do that? By increasing the production of heroin and spreading prostitution?

No one is spending more than the albanians since they are not earning anything. 79 percent unemployment! You can't even buy milk and bread much less territory.
Get a job!

I wonder how serbia will ever get out of this debt.Some on in this site claim that serbia is the economical power in Balkans!!!

Albanians need to pull their sleves and begin to recover the lost territory by buying Presevo valley first to be followed by Nis and Novi Pazar.
(PRN, 22 March 2010 14:23)

With what money? EU taxpayers? US taxpayers? Albania are the among poorest nations in Europe, how could they possible afford to buy land on a large scale in another contry???

"Since January 1, 2001 untl today, the state took EUR 70bn based on privatizations, foreign loans… Where that money went, I cannot see. In nine years, we have not built a single new bridge, Corridor 10 has not been finalized, nor any other investment of any significance," Kovačević added.

€70 billion over 10 years is relatively short change. Serbia has a bloated public sector and bureaucracy as well as host of another problems left over from the war so its easy to see that the money went on public sector salaries, feeding its bureuacracy. In otherwords the money was effectively mismanaged into oblivion.

Throw in a few brown envelopes with the odd nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

It cost to halt UNSC recognition of Kosovo, what, you thought it was for free!!??

"I wonder how serbia will ever get out of this debt.Some on in this site claim that serbia is the economical power in Balkans!!!
(Kosova-USA, 22 March 2010 14:48)"

Okay, by strict definition, Serbia is currently no economic power ..... what about "Kosova"?

No surprise here at all.
When will Serbs wake up and realise that their very way of life is utterly bankrupt? The country is heading for a major disaster and quite frankly they brought it all on themselves. Here are the 4 pillars of the Serbian way of life: corruption, laziness, greed and incompetence. Such qualities in individuals and countries only leads to poverty.

Serbia is not heavily indebted. This is absurd and a scare tactic byh the IMF and like minded economists.

Of this debt, somewhere in the the 60%-70% range is private debt (i.e. not government).

These same economists were predicted we would face an Argentinian or Greek crisis 6 years ago. They were wrong then, they are wrong now. (Also back in 2004 our debt as a portion of GDP was higher then now)

An economist that seems to confuse frequently private and state debt shouldn't be taken seriously.

Also. How is Serbia facing a Greek scenario. Greece's public debt is 120% of GDP (nearly 4 times Serbia's level), their public debt is an additional 150% of GDP (nearly 3 times Serbia's level), ammased while for decades the EU was given them aid to the tune of 5% of GDP for decades (something Serbia doesn't receive).

I also wonder how this man gets the 70 bln figure. Most economists get far lower figure. Also, foreign aid has totalled 5 bln, pirvatization earnings less then 5 bln and we've taken less then 10 bln in foreign loans. Where does he get that 50 bln additional from? (unless he's counting 20 bln or so in private debt which is private not government and thus wouldn't be spent on the things he talks of -- Corridor 10. Thus quesitoning his eocnomic skills again)

"Albanians need to pull their sleves and begin to recover the lost territory by buying Presevo valley first to be followed by Nis and Novi Pazar.
(PRN, 22 March 2010 14:23) "

I don't think Serbia is in any hurry to sell the Presevo region. That's not the point however. The point is that you guys actually think you can AFFORD to buy anything of consequence????? How many human organs would you have to sell to get that kind of money?

On a practical note however, Serbia must learn to live within her means. Don't ape those Yankees for goodness sake! -- look at the mess they have created for themselves -- http://www.federalbudget.com/

i agree that it is more then about time to check where the money has left. that means, to check the pro-eu-partys.

but i disagree about the debt beeing a problem, as serbia still belongs to the states with reasonable debts.

it makes more sense to increase the debts then to sell - without any reason - national interest and cash flow as telecom srbije.

then a renationalisation of obvious theft ("us steel" in smederevo as the best example, europes biggest steel mill was sold for 23 mio. usd).

reselling all this thefts at market value or produce the steel alone (as until 2001) are possible scenarios.

and i really don´t know why serbia is repaying debts from communist times? just like the argentinian people still repay debts a dictator made at us banks to buy us weapons to kill argentinians and shortly british in the falklands wars.

if communism is bad and gone, why pay for the business of dictatorships and us-banks ???

He said that in the last two years, the state of foreign debt has drastically worsened, and that the taking out of loans will continue in this and the next year, which can lead to a long-term debt crisis.
--
So our debt has increased significantly over the past two years? Hmm, isn't that when the "For a European" DS party dominated power? All of our state assets being sold off also? Hmm, these are the Western values we keep hearing about. Sell everything you have and just keep borrowing. In the end you become a slave.

Nothing new.
Serbian economy was never in better state.
I see that it is hard for some Milosevic journalst to accept this, but people know this and this is important.

Lots of scare mongering by this so called 'economist' here. Now let's have a look at the US debt.
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
The Public debt to GDP ratio is 88%, and as you can see, growing very fast. Not so far from Greece, are they?
The empire is crumbling before our eyes.
Cheers!!

"Albania is a basket case financially as well."

Not really - see this article on the recent IMF report: http://www.balkans.com/open-news.php?uniquenumber=51864 "IMF: In the face of strong headwinds, the Albanian economy has weathered the global crisis fairly well so far" - for example, 3% growth rather than the contraction that most economies faced. Add in some recent major infrastructure project and recent discoveries of oil, and Albania's chances don't look bad at all.

My fellow serbo-albanians, it is not Serbia who is your enemy, you have been lied to. Begin to awaken and finally together we can prosper. Divide and conquer was the method they used, and continue to use. We live together, and theres nothing we can do about. Obviously neither of us are willing to abandon our home, so let's fight this battle a different way. Let's show EU together it is not the people who need EU it is the EU that need the people... Good day my people
(trudsaam, 22 March 2010 18:32)

Really!!! Those 900 thousand people in 1999 deported by who? Ugandas?
Don't be funny man. Please start realising that Kosovo for you is history. You do not have capacity to make serbo-serbs happy but still you chose to make new terms like "serbo albanians"

"Since January 1, 2001 until today, the state took EUR 70bn based on privatizations, foreign loans… Where that money went, I cannot see. It went to the state governing politicians and its loyal bloated paper shuffling bureaucrats of its expertise at shafting the tax paying Serb. The rest of the money is going to the life support of the still born brain dead Srpska entity. That is not cheap to make it look pretentiously presentable to prop it up as if it could be living. Serbias burrowing will hit the wall at full speed and it will come all unravelled just ask your friend Greece. If they are not still lying to them selfs no mater reality has a way of making a very rude awakening to the cold naked reality of the truth.

It cost to halt UNSC recognition of Kosovo, what, you thought it was for free!!??
(BOPA, 22 March 2010 16:57)
--
Well said BOPA

Albanians need to pull their sleves and begin to recover the lost territory by buying Presevo valley first to be followed by Nis and Novi Pazar.
(PRN, 22 March 2010 14:23)

I had no idea that donkeys were fetching such a high price on the international market for Albania to buy Presovo Valley.

I wonder how serbia will ever get out of this debt.Some on in this site claim that serbia is the economical power in Balkans!!!
(Kosova-USA, 22 March 2010 14:48)

To many people 22 billion is a lot of money, but to a country like Serbia that is a pittance compared to its overall wealth in minerals and other resources.
Unfortunately, much to your disappointment Serbia is an economic power today and in the future. Please attend some courses and educate yourself before making such comments.
(Oink, 22 March 2010 15:25)

What we have here are people who look at the 22 billion as if they have borrowed this money personally like a home loan, which is wrong.
To understand what this debt means you have to rid yourselves of this parochial mentality. This level of debt is not huge for a country like Serbia. Yes it can overstretch itself if they are not careful but it is not even close to that point. Start worrying when it reaches 100 billion Euros, but Serbs should not allow this to occur either.

Now we will see Germans offering a solution for Serbian debts: "sell Vojvodina". Just the half of the price offered by Russians(Prokhorov) for Greece, it is not so much.

BOPA "It cost to halt UNSC recognition of Kosovo".

Hey BOPA, I don't know what fairlyland propaganda you read in Albania or "Kosova" but the UNSC (UN Security Council) haven't recognised Kosovo otherwise it would be a member of the UN.

My fellow serbo-albanians, it is not Serbia who is your enemy, you have been lied to. Begin to awaken and finally together we can prosper. Divide and conquer was the method they used, and continue to use. We live together, and theres nothing we can do about. Obviously neither of us are willing to abandon our home, so let's fight this battle a different way. Let's show EU together it is not the people who need EU it is the EU that need the people... Good day my people
(trudsaam, 22 March 2010 18:32)

Really!!! Those 900 thousand people in 1999 deported by who? Ugandas?
Don't be funny man. Please start realising that Kosovo for you is history. You do not have capacity to make serbo-serbs happy but still you chose to make new terms like "serbo albanians"
(Simpatiku)
-
To ansder your first question... NATO, not Uganda.
Secondly Serbo-albanian is what you are. Just like Tesla was an American-Serb. According all legalities your are living on Serbian soil. You have this imagery of being indepdant but look at all the logitics, how your "government" is setup, money being funded from elsewhere and no money being made in the "state",all the corruption and mafia etc etc... Do you call this a democratic country? And what do you know of democracy? Open your eyes mate.

My fellow serbo-albanians, it is not Serbia who is your enemy, you have been lied to. Begin to awaken and finally together we can prosper. Divide and conquer was the method they used, and continue to use. We live together, and theres nothing we can do about. Obviously neither of us are willing to abandon our home, so let's fight this battle a different way. Let's show EU together it is not the people who need EU it is the EU that need the people... Good day my people

I also wonder how this man gets the 70 bln figure. Most economists get far lower figure. Also, foreign aid has totalled 5 bln, pirvatization earnings less then 5 bln and we've taken less then 10 bln in foreign loans. Where does he get that 50 bln additional from? (unless he's counting 20 bln or so in private debt which is private not government and thus wouldn't be spent on the things he talks of -- Corridor 10. Thus quesitoning his eocnomic skills again)
(Yaroslav, 22 March 2010 16:09)

He adds all debts including private sector and company debt as well as Govt debt against GDP. To tell you the truth I don't mind Kovacevic saying this, every now and then for the fact it opens our eyes. In the USA these comments were muzzled and they lived well beyond their means. Here is a link on Serbian Debt.
http://www.mfin.sr.gov.yu/eng/3718/
A list where we stand in the world at 2009,
http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/economics/list-of-national-debt-by-country/

As for the situation in Serbia at 74.1% as quoted by Kovacevic, in comparison to our nearest competitor in the region Croatia, they are expecting theirs to reach 100% in 2010.
http://www.reporternet.com/Croatia/Economics/item/92112-Croatia-Foreign-debt-to-reach-100-of-GDP-in-2010-C-bank
What is needed in Serbia in the next 2 years is some prudent fiscal management only spending where it will make money ie no ministerial Bali trips Grr. Serbia's industrial output is only at 50% of it's prewar level and maximising this would create much more GDP and revenue, this is the focal point along with attracting the big industry from Europe.
Here lies an opportunity with the downturn to overtake and economicly position the country stronger. In Janurary this year industry output rose 3.7%. I would also look at the Serb govt putting more energy into taking out Chinese loans instead of looking to an IMF quickfix, they would save 6% interest that way.
The banks should also excersize restraint and increase the criterea for the private sector loans, make it harder and the people will start thinking how to spend yesterdays money tommorow and not the other way around.
Overall even in better times I would still put pressure on the Gov't to perform and be proactive rather than reactive if something happens.

This comment goes out to all those that always rip on croatias budget issues when our deficit isnt even close to serbias. Our population is 4.5 mill and ours is that 8.7 billion kuna about 700million euros while serbia is double our population and at 22 billion euros/ 150 billion kuna.

0.7 billion euros vs 22 billion.. hmmmm
Oh yeah war isnt much of an excuse because ours was much worst than your 2 month bombing raid.

Before you rip on croatia, look at your own country first.

Yeah im talking to you SJ

"When will Serbs wake up and realise that their very way of life is utterly bankrupt? The country is heading for a major disaster and quite frankly they brought it all on themselves."

Dang, for a minute there I thought you were talking about the U.S. :)

(marko, 23 March 2010 18:36

Glad to hear from you Marko.
I had to talk to my financial industry contacts first before putting “pen to paper”. You see two actually work for the world bank.
Your population is not 4.5 million because Croatia still counts Serbs, that were forced out of Croatia, and the Croats that have long ago emigrated as refugees to other countries, as living in Croatia.
Here is some startling and factual information. IN Croatia about 37% of its working age population is employed while 67% can work but are unable to find any, but on all official government sites Croatia only has 10% unemployed.
In fact the world bank rates Croatia as having the highest level of unemployment in the whole of Europe. The level of youth unemployment is in the order of 65/70%.
I’m not clear what you mean by “budget issues when our deficit” because a budget deficit and long term debt are two different things. However, I leave the budget deficit alone despite my friends giving me mountains of material that would horrify you.
Croatia owes 60 billion Euros which goes back to Franjo Tudjman’s days. This is still outstanding. For the financial year 2009 the EU gave Slovenia 1 billion and Croatia 2.5 billion Euros to fill their budget holes. Croatia now has to start trimming its social security program such as aged pensions, unemployment benefits and reducing the number of war veterans on benefits rather than the current 700 000. There are public works programs, such as road construction, that have been either shelved or entirely abandoned. The remaining government assets that have not been sold because they just can’t sell them are to be closed down one by one – ship yards are on this list. In 2009 about 30 000 businesses went into bankruptcy and 2010 is going to be worse.
My friends also told me that the Croatian, Slovenian, BiH, Montenegro and Macedonian economies are being held up by the EU. To quote one of the world bank contacts “If the Croatian Kuna was not guaranteed by the EU it would be worthless paper”.

60 - 70% unemployment lmao, croatia isnt Zimbabwe, its around 12-15% realistically.

Oh yeah you want facts these are facts

The Economy of Croatia is a service-based economy, with the service sector accounting for 67% of the total GDP. The preliminary GDP data for 2009 put Croatian GDP at 370.5 billion Croatian Kuna, or just over USD 15,700 per capita[6], putting Croatia ahead of the EU member states Bulgaria, Romania, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland. The estimated Gross Domestic Product per capita in purchasing power parity in 2008 was around USD 18,740 or 63% of the EU average for the same year[6].
Shipbuilding dominates the industrial sector; with exports of over €1 billion annually, shipbuilding accounts for over 10% of exported goods. Food processing and chemical industry take significant portions of industrial output and are responsible for significant portion of exported goods. Industrial Sector represents 27% of Croatia’s total economic output, and agriculture represents 6%.

Were not even in the EU and were are already beating EU member states

Oh yeah croatias foreign debt is that 35 billion and do you know why. Because croatia just built one the best highways in the world stretching from zagreb to past split and still building. Croatia's infrastructure is becoming one of the best in europe and the world, while serbia has even more debt than us but has nothing to show for it which IMHO is horrible for serbs and serbia. You guys spent so much money on what? I know where our was spent its pretty obvious....

Good morning sj,
why that was the most beautiful story i have read in such a long time. In fact, it brought music to my ears.

I also wonder how this man gets the 70 bln figure. Most economists get far lower figure. Also, foreign aid has totalled 5 bln, pirvatization earnings less then 5 bln and we've taken less then 10 bln in foreign loans. Where does he get that 50 bln additional from? (unless he's counting 20 bln or so in private debt which is private not government and thus wouldn't be spent on the things he talks of -- Corridor 10. Thus quesitoning his eocnomic skills again)
(Yaroslav, 22 March 2010 16:09)

Actually it seems that 50 bln consists of loans to citizens by banks (not to government) and remittance (which go to citizens not the government).

This full seems to group all sources of these "70 bln" as having gone to our government., when in actuality only 20 bln went -- something most economist say.

I guess this man wishes our government would take communist tactics and seize 50 bln of loans and remittances our private citizens have received from their relatibves abroad or from private banks.

To ansder your first question... NATO, not Uganda.
Secondly Serbo-albanian is what you are. Just like Tesla was an American-Serb. According all legalities your are living on Serbian soil. You have this imagery of being indepdant but look at all the logitics, how your "government" is setup, money being funded from elsewhere and no money being made in the "state",all the corruption and mafia etc etc... Do you call this a democratic country? And what do you know of democracy? Open your eyes mate.
(trudsaam, 23 March 2010 22:17)

To answer your question the deportation has been done by serbian police, military and paramilitary forces in state sponsored campaign. I am no serbo albanian, I am kosovar albanian.

(marko, 24 March 2010 14:23)

I made an error in the statistics – “about 37% of its working age population is employed while 67% can work but are unable to find any”……it should read 37% and 63% respectively.
The “The Economy of Croatia is a service-based economy…..” is straight out of the CIA website – Gee, that’s a real credible source.
For your information one of my contacts from the world bank was in Croatia 5 weeks ago and this guy specializes in auditing.
He told me that “Croatia imports more than it exports and has done so for over a decade now”!
When I asked him “how is it possible for Croatia to live off tourism?
The response was “it does not, because tourism has been down in 2008 – 20%; in 2009 another 30% on top and 2010 does not look too promising – all due to the WFC”. He also quoted a Croatian economists that I also saw on HTV; “2010 is going to be tough, 2011 worse than 2010 and 2012 will be even more difficult than 2011”.
The auditor stated that “Ship building is being subsidized by the central government. It may earn 1 billion Euros but it costs the government 2 billion to keep it going”.
I emailed this to my contact two of you your statements:
”Croatias foreign debt is that 35 billion” – response was “in 2005 it was 47 billion Euros; in 2008 it was 52 billion and in 2010, including outstanding interest it is 60 billion; why do you think the world bank was in Croatia? The large proportion of this debt goes back to Tudjman’s days when Croatia borrowed hand over fist for both the war and a free for all by Tudjman’s friends and family to get rich.
“croatia just built one the best highways in the world stretching from zagreb to past split and still building. Croatia's infrastructure is becoming one of the best in europe and the world”
Response to this was “this guy is very patriotic, but no Croatia did not pay for this infrastructure – it came from EU funds just as they have given Serbia money to do the same. This is in the EU’s interest to have good roadways.”

and i really don´t know why serbia is repaying debts from communist times? ...

if communism is bad and gone, why pay for the business of dictatorships and us-banks ???
(raso, 22 March 2010 16:38)

Most of Serbia's debt was wiped out after Milosevic was voted out of office by the Paris Club (govt loans) and the London Club (private). Much of the credit for achieving this is due to Dinkic and Delic, who were able to deal at a professional level that impressed the Western debt-holders and who persuaded them that encumbering a new democracy with overwhelming debts taken out by the previous regime could destabilize it.

(sj, 25 March 2010 00:10)

SJ commendations on another fine post,

In relation to the future the youth is suffering heavily in Croatia. A large number of young persons work on fixed-term employment contracts (85% of all newly-employed persons in Croatia are employed on such contracts), in seasonal jobs or in temporary work. Large numbers of young persons work in the grey economy – 9% occasionally; 7% only in the grey economy. They are trapped in precarious and underpaid, typical jobs, and they accept longer working hours, unpaid overtime work, undeclared work, with little or no social protection and without possibilities of training and career progress. The high unemployment rate among the youth and their lack of income translated into
140,000 young educated people leaving Croatia. An interesting event is that Slavonians who are suffering higher rates of unemployment are starting to voice their objections to Zagreb investing a disproportionate amount of Kunas around it's own area, sacrificing the eastern and other region.

--------------------------
"The auditor stated that “Ship building is being subsidized by the central government. It may earn 1 billion Euros but it costs the government 2 billion to keep it going”.

As a pre-requisite to joining the EU Croatia's ship building ports have to become privatised. Croatia have had only two offers so far many prospective buyers were became shy once they saw how much the Croatian Gov't subsidised this industry. Here one offer and it's consequences. Poland went through this as did many other EU members.
http://seenews.com/news/latestnews/samsung___soffertobrodosplit_youwillbeworkingthreeshiftsadayforthe-103837112/
---------------------------
"The response was “it does not, because tourism has been down in 2008 – 20%; in 2009 another 30% on top and 2010 does not look too promising – all due to the WFC”.

Another co-inciding reason is, for a few hundred more Euro an average European can travel to more exotic locations such as Thailand, Indonesia etc, where they get more value for their Euros. The habits of continental tourists such as alot of Germans I know prefer to abstain from yearly holidays to go BI-annually, further and staying longer abroad. This will without doubt put pressure on the kuna as it is dependant on the seasonal influx of foreign currency.

---------------------------

”Croatias foreign debt is that 35 billion” – response was “in 2005 it was 47 billion Euros; in 2008 it was 52 billion and in 2010, including outstanding interest it is 60 billion; why do you think the world bank was in Croatia?"

http://www.nacional.hr/en/clanak/50426/12010-a-year-of-crisis-and-the-turning-of-the-tide
Another 50,000 workers expected to be cut.
Looks bleak but it's better than having your,
http://www.icis.com/blogs/asian-chemical-connections/035ostrich_468x538.jpg

Once again good post SJ.

"He also noted that Serbia’s situation is "not far from the Greek scenario", because Serbia is spending "25 percent more than it earns".

Well well,...

Does Serbia knows that just lke Greece is going to sell territory pay Loans.

Albanians need to pull their sleves and begin to recover the lost territory by buying Presevo valley first to be followed by Nis and Novi Pazar.

It cost to halt UNSC recognition of Kosovo, what, you thought it was for free!!??

Nothing new.
Serbian economy was never in better state.
I see that it is hard for some Milosevic journalst to accept this, but people know this and this is important.

No surprise here at all.
When will Serbs wake up and realise that their very way of life is utterly bankrupt? The country is heading for a major disaster and quite frankly they brought it all on themselves. Here are the 4 pillars of the Serbian way of life: corruption, laziness, greed and incompetence. Such qualities in individuals and countries only leads to poverty.

I wonder how serbia will ever get out of this debt.Some on in this site claim that serbia is the economical power in Balkans!!!

"Albanians need to pull their sleves and begin to recover the lost territory by buying Presevo valley first to be followed by Nis and Novi Pazar.
(PRN, 22 March 2010 14:23) "

I don't think Serbia is in any hurry to sell the Presevo region. That's not the point however. The point is that you guys actually think you can AFFORD to buy anything of consequence????? How many human organs would you have to sell to get that kind of money?

On a practical note however, Serbia must learn to live within her means. Don't ape those Yankees for goodness sake! -- look at the mess they have created for themselves -- http://www.federalbudget.com/

"Since January 1, 2001 until today, the state took EUR 70bn based on privatizations, foreign loans… Where that money went, I cannot see. It went to the state governing politicians and its loyal bloated paper shuffling bureaucrats of its expertise at shafting the tax paying Serb. The rest of the money is going to the life support of the still born brain dead Srpska entity. That is not cheap to make it look pretentiously presentable to prop it up as if it could be living. Serbias burrowing will hit the wall at full speed and it will come all unravelled just ask your friend Greece. If they are not still lying to them selfs no mater reality has a way of making a very rude awakening to the cold naked reality of the truth.

Let's put this news into perspective. Take a look at the respective economies of Serbia, Albania and "Kosova" according to the Albanians closest ally, the US. It's all there to see on the CIA world factbook. If I were Albanian, I'd bow my head in shame at the figures

"Albanians need to pull their sleves and begin to recover the lost territory by buying Presevo valley first to be followed by Nis and Novi Pazar."
PRN

How are you going to do that? By increasing the production of heroin and spreading prostitution?

No one is spending more than the albanians since they are not earning anything. 79 percent unemployment! You can't even buy milk and bread much less territory.
Get a job!

"I wonder how serbia will ever get out of this debt.Some on in this site claim that serbia is the economical power in Balkans!!!
(Kosova-USA, 22 March 2010 14:48)"

Okay, by strict definition, Serbia is currently no economic power ..... what about "Kosova"?

Albanians need to pull their sleves and begin to recover the lost territory by buying Presevo valley first to be followed by Nis and Novi Pazar.
(PRN, 22 March 2010 14:23)

With what money? EU taxpayers? US taxpayers? Albania are the among poorest nations in Europe, how could they possible afford to buy land on a large scale in another contry???

I wonder how serbia will ever get out of this debt.Some on in this site claim that serbia is the economical power in Balkans!!!
(Kosova-USA,)
-
And you think KosovoUNMIK is the power? KosovoUNMIK has no economy to be in debt, no money is being made there at all.

So what do u suggest Kosova-USA? Join EU and get financial backing, which would put Serbia in even more debt? Obviously Serbian politics interest you, you are contantly on this site. You know how the fate of KosovoUNMIK is in the hands of Serbia, and Serbia alone. The stance she made is very clear, and simple. Now you say that "people" claim that Serbia is the "economic" power-house of the Balkans, sounds even strange to me, BUT isnt it even stranger that even the EU have said this? And what do you think this conference in Slovenia was about. The Balkans need Serbia, whether they like it or not. You need Serbia especially, since in fact it is your governement. Good day

"Since January 1, 2001 untl today, the state took EUR 70bn based on privatizations, foreign loans… Where that money went, I cannot see. In nine years, we have not built a single new bridge, Corridor 10 has not been finalized, nor any other investment of any significance," Kovačević added.

€70 billion over 10 years is relatively short change. Serbia has a bloated public sector and bureaucracy as well as host of another problems left over from the war so its easy to see that the money went on public sector salaries, feeding its bureuacracy. In otherwords the money was effectively mismanaged into oblivion.

Throw in a few brown envelopes with the odd nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

Lots of scare mongering by this so called 'economist' here. Now let's have a look at the US debt.
http://www.usdebtclock.org/
The Public debt to GDP ratio is 88%, and as you can see, growing very fast. Not so far from Greece, are they?
The empire is crumbling before our eyes.
Cheers!!

"That is six percent under the mark that separates Serbia from countries in high debt, economist Mlađen Kovačević told daily Večernje Novosti." Does this guy think we are all idiots?? 805 or 74%. They are both HIGH levels of debt, especially when you have a country which has little or no economy to speak of. Serbia is like Greece 5 or 10 years ago, and we've sen the ultimate result - a near bankrupt Greece. Somebody should grow a pair and tell the population that they can't keep borrowing and spending so much money. e.g. pensions. they are high by the standards of some western countries, never mind the balkans. It simply has to stop and the public need to know that the country is spending beyond it's means.

PRN "Albanians need to pull their sleves and begin to recover the lost territory by buying Presevo valley first to be followed by Nis and Novi Pazar." AND Kosovo-USA "I wonder how serbia will ever get out of this debt.Some on in this site claim that serbia is the economical power in Balkans!!!"

Thanks for the concern about Serbia's debt but you should take a look closer to home. If you think Serbia is in dire straights, then "Kosovoa" is right at the bottom of the pile, beyond even Greece. Serbia should use it's debt to buy parts of Albania because Albania is a basket case financially as well. It's al well and good having tens of children per family but now that the chickens come home to roast you realise that you don't have two cents to rub together. So much for the Albanian grand plan.

Serbia is not heavily indebted. This is absurd and a scare tactic byh the IMF and like minded economists.

Of this debt, somewhere in the the 60%-70% range is private debt (i.e. not government).

These same economists were predicted we would face an Argentinian or Greek crisis 6 years ago. They were wrong then, they are wrong now. (Also back in 2004 our debt as a portion of GDP was higher then now)

An economist that seems to confuse frequently private and state debt shouldn't be taken seriously.

Also. How is Serbia facing a Greek scenario. Greece's public debt is 120% of GDP (nearly 4 times Serbia's level), their public debt is an additional 150% of GDP (nearly 3 times Serbia's level), ammased while for decades the EU was given them aid to the tune of 5% of GDP for decades (something Serbia doesn't receive).

I also wonder how this man gets the 70 bln figure. Most economists get far lower figure. Also, foreign aid has totalled 5 bln, pirvatization earnings less then 5 bln and we've taken less then 10 bln in foreign loans. Where does he get that 50 bln additional from? (unless he's counting 20 bln or so in private debt which is private not government and thus wouldn't be spent on the things he talks of -- Corridor 10. Thus quesitoning his eocnomic skills again)

My fellow serbo-albanians, it is not Serbia who is your enemy, you have been lied to. Begin to awaken and finally together we can prosper. Divide and conquer was the method they used, and continue to use. We live together, and theres nothing we can do about. Obviously neither of us are willing to abandon our home, so let's fight this battle a different way. Let's show EU together it is not the people who need EU it is the EU that need the people... Good day my people

BOPA "It cost to halt UNSC recognition of Kosovo".

Hey BOPA, I don't know what fairlyland propaganda you read in Albania or "Kosova" but the UNSC (UN Security Council) haven't recognised Kosovo otherwise it would be a member of the UN.

My fellow serbo-albanians, it is not Serbia who is your enemy, you have been lied to. Begin to awaken and finally together we can prosper. Divide and conquer was the method they used, and continue to use. We live together, and theres nothing we can do about. Obviously neither of us are willing to abandon our home, so let's fight this battle a different way. Let's show EU together it is not the people who need EU it is the EU that need the people... Good day my people
(trudsaam, 22 March 2010 18:32)

Really!!! Those 900 thousand people in 1999 deported by who? Ugandas?
Don't be funny man. Please start realising that Kosovo for you is history. You do not have capacity to make serbo-serbs happy but still you chose to make new terms like "serbo albanians"

He said that in the last two years, the state of foreign debt has drastically worsened, and that the taking out of loans will continue in this and the next year, which can lead to a long-term debt crisis.
--
So our debt has increased significantly over the past two years? Hmm, isn't that when the "For a European" DS party dominated power? All of our state assets being sold off also? Hmm, these are the Western values we keep hearing about. Sell everything you have and just keep borrowing. In the end you become a slave.

I also wonder how this man gets the 70 bln figure. Most economists get far lower figure. Also, foreign aid has totalled 5 bln, pirvatization earnings less then 5 bln and we've taken less then 10 bln in foreign loans. Where does he get that 50 bln additional from? (unless he's counting 20 bln or so in private debt which is private not government and thus wouldn't be spent on the things he talks of -- Corridor 10. Thus quesitoning his eocnomic skills again)
(Yaroslav, 22 March 2010 16:09)

Actually it seems that 50 bln consists of loans to citizens by banks (not to government) and remittance (which go to citizens not the government).

This full seems to group all sources of these "70 bln" as having gone to our government., when in actuality only 20 bln went -- something most economist say.

I guess this man wishes our government would take communist tactics and seize 50 bln of loans and remittances our private citizens have received from their relatibves abroad or from private banks.

It cost to halt UNSC recognition of Kosovo, what, you thought it was for free!!??
(BOPA, 22 March 2010 16:57)
--
Well said BOPA

Now we will see Germans offering a solution for Serbian debts: "sell Vojvodina". Just the half of the price offered by Russians(Prokhorov) for Greece, it is not so much.

"Albania is a basket case financially as well."

Not really - see this article on the recent IMF report: http://www.balkans.com/open-news.php?uniquenumber=51864 "IMF: In the face of strong headwinds, the Albanian economy has weathered the global crisis fairly well so far" - for example, 3% growth rather than the contraction that most economies faced. Add in some recent major infrastructure project and recent discoveries of oil, and Albania's chances don't look bad at all.

This comment goes out to all those that always rip on croatias budget issues when our deficit isnt even close to serbias. Our population is 4.5 mill and ours is that 8.7 billion kuna about 700million euros while serbia is double our population and at 22 billion euros/ 150 billion kuna.

0.7 billion euros vs 22 billion.. hmmmm
Oh yeah war isnt much of an excuse because ours was much worst than your 2 month bombing raid.

Before you rip on croatia, look at your own country first.

Yeah im talking to you SJ

To ansder your first question... NATO, not Uganda.
Secondly Serbo-albanian is what you are. Just like Tesla was an American-Serb. According all legalities your are living on Serbian soil. You have this imagery of being indepdant but look at all the logitics, how your "government" is setup, money being funded from elsewhere and no money being made in the "state",all the corruption and mafia etc etc... Do you call this a democratic country? And what do you know of democracy? Open your eyes mate.
(trudsaam, 23 March 2010 22:17)

To answer your question the deportation has been done by serbian police, military and paramilitary forces in state sponsored campaign. I am no serbo albanian, I am kosovar albanian.

Albanians need to pull their sleves and begin to recover the lost territory by buying Presevo valley first to be followed by Nis and Novi Pazar.
(PRN, 22 March 2010 14:23)

I had no idea that donkeys were fetching such a high price on the international market for Albania to buy Presovo Valley.

I wonder how serbia will ever get out of this debt.Some on in this site claim that serbia is the economical power in Balkans!!!
(Kosova-USA, 22 March 2010 14:48)

To many people 22 billion is a lot of money, but to a country like Serbia that is a pittance compared to its overall wealth in minerals and other resources.
Unfortunately, much to your disappointment Serbia is an economic power today and in the future. Please attend some courses and educate yourself before making such comments.
(Oink, 22 March 2010 15:25)

What we have here are people who look at the 22 billion as if they have borrowed this money personally like a home loan, which is wrong.
To understand what this debt means you have to rid yourselves of this parochial mentality. This level of debt is not huge for a country like Serbia. Yes it can overstretch itself if they are not careful but it is not even close to that point. Start worrying when it reaches 100 billion Euros, but Serbs should not allow this to occur either.

60 - 70% unemployment lmao, croatia isnt Zimbabwe, its around 12-15% realistically.

Oh yeah you want facts these are facts

The Economy of Croatia is a service-based economy, with the service sector accounting for 67% of the total GDP. The preliminary GDP data for 2009 put Croatian GDP at 370.5 billion Croatian Kuna, or just over USD 15,700 per capita[6], putting Croatia ahead of the EU member states Bulgaria, Romania, Latvia, Lithuania and Poland. The estimated Gross Domestic Product per capita in purchasing power parity in 2008 was around USD 18,740 or 63% of the EU average for the same year[6].
Shipbuilding dominates the industrial sector; with exports of over €1 billion annually, shipbuilding accounts for over 10% of exported goods. Food processing and chemical industry take significant portions of industrial output and are responsible for significant portion of exported goods. Industrial Sector represents 27% of Croatia’s total economic output, and agriculture represents 6%.

Were not even in the EU and were are already beating EU member states

Oh yeah croatias foreign debt is that 35 billion and do you know why. Because croatia just built one the best highways in the world stretching from zagreb to past split and still building. Croatia's infrastructure is becoming one of the best in europe and the world, while serbia has even more debt than us but has nothing to show for it which IMHO is horrible for serbs and serbia. You guys spent so much money on what? I know where our was spent its pretty obvious....

i agree that it is more then about time to check where the money has left. that means, to check the pro-eu-partys.

but i disagree about the debt beeing a problem, as serbia still belongs to the states with reasonable debts.

it makes more sense to increase the debts then to sell - without any reason - national interest and cash flow as telecom srbije.

then a renationalisation of obvious theft ("us steel" in smederevo as the best example, europes biggest steel mill was sold for 23 mio. usd).

reselling all this thefts at market value or produce the steel alone (as until 2001) are possible scenarios.

and i really don´t know why serbia is repaying debts from communist times? just like the argentinian people still repay debts a dictator made at us banks to buy us weapons to kill argentinians and shortly british in the falklands wars.

if communism is bad and gone, why pay for the business of dictatorships and us-banks ???

I also wonder how this man gets the 70 bln figure. Most economists get far lower figure. Also, foreign aid has totalled 5 bln, pirvatization earnings less then 5 bln and we've taken less then 10 bln in foreign loans. Where does he get that 50 bln additional from? (unless he's counting 20 bln or so in private debt which is private not government and thus wouldn't be spent on the things he talks of -- Corridor 10. Thus quesitoning his eocnomic skills again)
(Yaroslav, 22 March 2010 16:09)

He adds all debts including private sector and company debt as well as Govt debt against GDP. To tell you the truth I don't mind Kovacevic saying this, every now and then for the fact it opens our eyes. In the USA these comments were muzzled and they lived well beyond their means. Here is a link on Serbian Debt.
http://www.mfin.sr.gov.yu/eng/3718/
A list where we stand in the world at 2009,
http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/economics/list-of-national-debt-by-country/

As for the situation in Serbia at 74.1% as quoted by Kovacevic, in comparison to our nearest competitor in the region Croatia, they are expecting theirs to reach 100% in 2010.
http://www.reporternet.com/Croatia/Economics/item/92112-Croatia-Foreign-debt-to-reach-100-of-GDP-in-2010-C-bank
What is needed in Serbia in the next 2 years is some prudent fiscal management only spending where it will make money ie no ministerial Bali trips Grr. Serbia's industrial output is only at 50% of it's prewar level and maximising this would create much more GDP and revenue, this is the focal point along with attracting the big industry from Europe.
Here lies an opportunity with the downturn to overtake and economicly position the country stronger. In Janurary this year industry output rose 3.7%. I would also look at the Serb govt putting more energy into taking out Chinese loans instead of looking to an IMF quickfix, they would save 6% interest that way.
The banks should also excersize restraint and increase the criterea for the private sector loans, make it harder and the people will start thinking how to spend yesterdays money tommorow and not the other way around.
Overall even in better times I would still put pressure on the Gov't to perform and be proactive rather than reactive if something happens.

My fellow serbo-albanians, it is not Serbia who is your enemy, you have been lied to. Begin to awaken and finally together we can prosper. Divide and conquer was the method they used, and continue to use. We live together, and theres nothing we can do about. Obviously neither of us are willing to abandon our home, so let's fight this battle a different way. Let's show EU together it is not the people who need EU it is the EU that need the people... Good day my people
(trudsaam, 22 March 2010 18:32)

Really!!! Those 900 thousand people in 1999 deported by who? Ugandas?
Don't be funny man. Please start realising that Kosovo for you is history. You do not have capacity to make serbo-serbs happy but still you chose to make new terms like "serbo albanians"
(Simpatiku)
-
To ansder your first question... NATO, not Uganda.
Secondly Serbo-albanian is what you are. Just like Tesla was an American-Serb. According all legalities your are living on Serbian soil. You have this imagery of being indepdant but look at all the logitics, how your "government" is setup, money being funded from elsewhere and no money being made in the "state",all the corruption and mafia etc etc... Do you call this a democratic country? And what do you know of democracy? Open your eyes mate.

(marko, 23 March 2010 18:36

Glad to hear from you Marko.
I had to talk to my financial industry contacts first before putting “pen to paper”. You see two actually work for the world bank.
Your population is not 4.5 million because Croatia still counts Serbs, that were forced out of Croatia, and the Croats that have long ago emigrated as refugees to other countries, as living in Croatia.
Here is some startling and factual information. IN Croatia about 37% of its working age population is employed while 67% can work but are unable to find any, but on all official government sites Croatia only has 10% unemployed.
In fact the world bank rates Croatia as having the highest level of unemployment in the whole of Europe. The level of youth unemployment is in the order of 65/70%.
I’m not clear what you mean by “budget issues when our deficit” because a budget deficit and long term debt are two different things. However, I leave the budget deficit alone despite my friends giving me mountains of material that would horrify you.
Croatia owes 60 billion Euros which goes back to Franjo Tudjman’s days. This is still outstanding. For the financial year 2009 the EU gave Slovenia 1 billion and Croatia 2.5 billion Euros to fill their budget holes. Croatia now has to start trimming its social security program such as aged pensions, unemployment benefits and reducing the number of war veterans on benefits rather than the current 700 000. There are public works programs, such as road construction, that have been either shelved or entirely abandoned. The remaining government assets that have not been sold because they just can’t sell them are to be closed down one by one – ship yards are on this list. In 2009 about 30 000 businesses went into bankruptcy and 2010 is going to be worse.
My friends also told me that the Croatian, Slovenian, BiH, Montenegro and Macedonian economies are being held up by the EU. To quote one of the world bank contacts “If the Croatian Kuna was not guaranteed by the EU it would be worthless paper”.

"When will Serbs wake up and realise that their very way of life is utterly bankrupt? The country is heading for a major disaster and quite frankly they brought it all on themselves."

Dang, for a minute there I thought you were talking about the U.S. :)

Good morning sj,
why that was the most beautiful story i have read in such a long time. In fact, it brought music to my ears.

and i really don´t know why serbia is repaying debts from communist times? ...

if communism is bad and gone, why pay for the business of dictatorships and us-banks ???
(raso, 22 March 2010 16:38)

Most of Serbia's debt was wiped out after Milosevic was voted out of office by the Paris Club (govt loans) and the London Club (private). Much of the credit for achieving this is due to Dinkic and Delic, who were able to deal at a professional level that impressed the Western debt-holders and who persuaded them that encumbering a new democracy with overwhelming debts taken out by the previous regime could destabilize it.

(marko, 24 March 2010 14:23)

I made an error in the statistics – “about 37% of its working age population is employed while 67% can work but are unable to find any”……it should read 37% and 63% respectively.
The “The Economy of Croatia is a service-based economy…..” is straight out of the CIA website – Gee, that’s a real credible source.
For your information one of my contacts from the world bank was in Croatia 5 weeks ago and this guy specializes in auditing.
He told me that “Croatia imports more than it exports and has done so for over a decade now”!
When I asked him “how is it possible for Croatia to live off tourism?
The response was “it does not, because tourism has been down in 2008 – 20%; in 2009 another 30% on top and 2010 does not look too promising – all due to the WFC”. He also quoted a Croatian economists that I also saw on HTV; “2010 is going to be tough, 2011 worse than 2010 and 2012 will be even more difficult than 2011”.
The auditor stated that “Ship building is being subsidized by the central government. It may earn 1 billion Euros but it costs the government 2 billion to keep it going”.
I emailed this to my contact two of you your statements:
”Croatias foreign debt is that 35 billion” – response was “in 2005 it was 47 billion Euros; in 2008 it was 52 billion and in 2010, including outstanding interest it is 60 billion; why do you think the world bank was in Croatia? The large proportion of this debt goes back to Tudjman’s days when Croatia borrowed hand over fist for both the war and a free for all by Tudjman’s friends and family to get rich.
“croatia just built one the best highways in the world stretching from zagreb to past split and still building. Croatia's infrastructure is becoming one of the best in europe and the world”
Response to this was “this guy is very patriotic, but no Croatia did not pay for this infrastructure – it came from EU funds just as they have given Serbia money to do the same. This is in the EU’s interest to have good roadways.”

(sj, 25 March 2010 00:10)

SJ commendations on another fine post,

In relation to the future the youth is suffering heavily in Croatia. A large number of young persons work on fixed-term employment contracts (85% of all newly-employed persons in Croatia are employed on such contracts), in seasonal jobs or in temporary work. Large numbers of young persons work in the grey economy – 9% occasionally; 7% only in the grey economy. They are trapped in precarious and underpaid, typical jobs, and they accept longer working hours, unpaid overtime work, undeclared work, with little or no social protection and without possibilities of training and career progress. The high unemployment rate among the youth and their lack of income translated into
140,000 young educated people leaving Croatia. An interesting event is that Slavonians who are suffering higher rates of unemployment are starting to voice their objections to Zagreb investing a disproportionate amount of Kunas around it's own area, sacrificing the eastern and other region.

--------------------------
"The auditor stated that “Ship building is being subsidized by the central government. It may earn 1 billion Euros but it costs the government 2 billion to keep it going”.

As a pre-requisite to joining the EU Croatia's ship building ports have to become privatised. Croatia have had only two offers so far many prospective buyers were became shy once they saw how much the Croatian Gov't subsidised this industry. Here one offer and it's consequences. Poland went through this as did many other EU members.
http://seenews.com/news/latestnews/samsung___soffertobrodosplit_youwillbeworkingthreeshiftsadayforthe-103837112/
---------------------------
"The response was “it does not, because tourism has been down in 2008 – 20%; in 2009 another 30% on top and 2010 does not look too promising – all due to the WFC”.

Another co-inciding reason is, for a few hundred more Euro an average European can travel to more exotic locations such as Thailand, Indonesia etc, where they get more value for their Euros. The habits of continental tourists such as alot of Germans I know prefer to abstain from yearly holidays to go BI-annually, further and staying longer abroad. This will without doubt put pressure on the kuna as it is dependant on the seasonal influx of foreign currency.

---------------------------

”Croatias foreign debt is that 35 billion” – response was “in 2005 it was 47 billion Euros; in 2008 it was 52 billion and in 2010, including outstanding interest it is 60 billion; why do you think the world bank was in Croatia?"

http://www.nacional.hr/en/clanak/50426/12010-a-year-of-crisis-and-the-turning-of-the-tide
Another 50,000 workers expected to be cut.
Looks bleak but it's better than having your,
http://www.icis.com/blogs/asian-chemical-connections/035ostrich_468x538.jpg

Once again good post SJ.