"Model for cooperation with Kosovo needed"

Serbia must proceed on the basis that it will at some stage reacquire rights it was bombed into signing away.

This was never intended to be a conquest - it was a human rights intervention. There is no way that this should have been turned into a group punishment of Serbia.

The UK and the west LIED when they signed for 1244 in that they never intended to maintain the territorial integrity the document reaffirms. That is now the key element of 1244 from the point of view of Serbia and the UK needs to honour it.

Serbia can never have a happy relationship with the west while that LIE retains.

The udi does not have anything to do with 'recognising' countries. This is not a vote. Also, the Albanians in Kosovo have no 'right' for the mono-ethnic state they have long been seeking to create (and do not pretend it is not mono-ethnic).

If the territorial integrity in 1244 is not honoured, 1244 should be declared void and Serbia should seek to introduce autonomy for the province under its own terms.

If the EU associates with this blackmail of Serbia, there will never be stability on the issue.

It would be more honest of the UK to come out and say - 'we conquered your territory and we are giving it away elsewhere' - rather than keep on with this weasel attitude and this weasel speak.

Stephen Wordsworth told B92 that Serbia was not requested to recognize Kosovo, but mentioned, as examples of "cooperation between Kosovo and Serbia", which is increasingly being insisted on, two post-war Germanies, as well as the model which has been established by Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland
B92

Divide & rule has always been the cornerstone of British colonial foreign policy.The Indian sub-continent,Mesopotamia,Irelandand Cyprus are few examples.

What the good ambassador insinuates is that Serbia should forget about the impeding court's ruling-he even knows what the ruling will be-and lets be civil with the present status quo.All the above under the EU carrot of Serbia's EU membership.

To support his thoughts he brings as an example the situation in Northen Ireland.What he doesn't say is that Northen Ireland is under british military occupation with more than 20000 troops stationed there,not to mention the special forces and the police.

The EU membership cannot possibly be achieved by surrendering your sovereignty.Serbia must make that crystal clear.

You want a solution Mr. Stephen Wordsworth?? Well the only solution is GIVE BACK KOSOVO TO SERBIA.

"They rather not go that far but everyone else is joining EU, but frozen out of EU Serbia would be crippled, as you're surrounded by EU nations.
(James, 16 March 2010 12:04) "

You are dead wrong. Switzerland is thriving even though surrounded by the EU. The crucial thing is for Serbia to get her economy in shape. Once this is achieved, properity will come in time. She doesn't need to succumb to blackmail about giving up Kosovo -- don't forget that the EU is not unanimous about Kosovo's status. I can't imagine Spain and Greek Cyprus, for example, ganging up with the likes of London to do Serbia in over Kosovo as you seemed to think.

In any case your conjecture of Serbia being surrounded by EU ia really farfetched. Do you honestly believe Bosnia (whose constituent peoples can't agree about just everything including the merits of EU membership versus ethnicity issues) and "Kosova" can be ahead of Belgrade in the EU race? "Kosova" can't even enter the UN for goodness sake!

I would think the precedent might eventually come from, surprisingly, Denmark. The Danes currently have sovereignty over Greenland. But only Denmark is in the EU, not Greenland. By the same token, Serbia can be inside the EU and still claim Kosovo even though the latte continues to remain outside both the EU and UN.

in the process of EU accession, it will have to be determined what makes Serbia in a physical sense, including its size and population.

That explains everything, when it comes to Serbia joining EU?

This means “we are having problems with criminality due to extreme levels of unemployment which is proving too difficult to control and we need Serbia to open its gates and let the Albanians seek employment”.
I prefer to leave it as it stands and let Kosovo wither and die on the proverbial vine. The west created the situation so let them live in the mess.
I’m sure there are Albanians that are right now reading the “tea leaves” and entrails of sheep prognosticating the down fall of Serbia and its chances of seeking eternal bliss in the EU.
Sorry to disappoint, but its business as usual, no changes whatsoever.

"A good precedent here is that the previous government of Prime Minister Koštunica, when negotiating the Stabilization and Association Agreement (SAA), accepted that this agreement did not apply to Kosovo, which was under management of the UN in accordance with Resolution 1244"
--
That was before the illegal UDI so everything has changed since then. The EU/US created the problem and Serbia is not going to compromise its territorial integrity for EU membership. That has been repeated an endless number of times and should be fairly clear. If Tadic doesn't live by his words then he'll get the boot.

Now as you mentioned UNSCR1244, the framework for co-operation is within that scope. Serbia will co-operate with UNMIK-Kosovo otherwise it has no reason to talk to an illegal criminal entity.

So the EU/US will have to choose sooner or later. Without Serbia the Balkans is crippled. With a strengthening East, the more pressure put on Serbia the more we face East. The West doesn't only risk losing Serbia but most of the Balkans over a group of criminals and terrorists. What will it be?

Interesting to hear the british ambassador say that regardless of what the ICJ rules the "reality" is that 80 percent of EU countries have recognized Kosovo. So, to bypass international law you carve out a piece of someone elses territory, pay and force a number of easily duped countries to recognize the move and say "that's it", no more turning back. Mr ambassador and co only use those facts that fit the purpose by saying that a majority of Europe supports an independent Kosovo. Why didn’t he mention that a majority of the world doesn’t? Mr ambassador, no one really want's to play with your Frankenstein creation, especially not Serbia and the Serbian people. You didn’t want to listen to Serbia during final status talks now you are begging us to talk to Pristina. You tell the
albanians to give back what is legaly ours and then we can talk.

"Without Serbia the Balkans cannot survive financially."
Zoran

Wow!! This is a strong one. Since when is Serbia a financial powerhouse? Or did you do a typing error by writing Serbia?

Even if you assume that the average Serb 'chooses Kosova' over EU (Kosova will not return to Serbia either way) it's over. Make no mistake about it, EU has plan B and doesn't include Serbia. They rather not go that far but everyone else is joining EU, but frozen out of EU Serbia would be crippled, as you're surrounded by EU nations.
(James, 16 March 2010 12:04)
--
James, now that's a funny name for an Albanian. Serbian's aren't interested in "Kosova", we already control about 30%+ of Kosovo and Metohija so it's not lost my friend. Why the effort by Pristina to control the enclaves and the North otherwise? It's all quiet now so that plan has failed right?

The reason the EU will lose the Balkans is simple economics. Without Serbia the Balkans cannot survive financially. The EU can barely keep Greece from collapsing, what chance will it have to add other failed states and entities to the list? It has already tried to kickstart the economies of the Bosnian Federation and "Kosova" by pumping billions into it but guess what happened? They failed while Serbia and Serbian entities continue to prosper. The plan backfired.

Now if the East continues to prosper and its influence extends westwards (as all signs are showing), who wants to join a feast that is over when we can join a feast that is just beginning?

Don't worry though. There are several million Albanians ready for an indefinate visit to western Europe. Give them the chance and they'll be on your doorstep in no time. I'm sure Europeans will extend their friendship and warm welcome to these loyal people.

Cheers!

I think Serbia is doing right by non-recognition of Kosovo.

Kosovo although independent cannot be for long time, because is ONLy natural to become a province of Albania, because HISTORY, people, language, and culture easily destroys all myths as it poits out to ONE and ONLY conclusion that Kosovo is Albania. Period.

Serbia doesnt need to recognise Kosovo, it only needs to recognize the natural Albania.

80% of the EU has recognised and this won't change regardless of what the court rules?

I think you'll find Mr Wordsworth that Poland and Czech Rep would renounce recognition straight away if this happened since both countries Presidents support Serbia's territorial integrity.

Also, ironically Blair signed a declaration saying that the UK would accept any ruling of the Court that didn't concern Commonwealth countries. So if the UK doesn't renounce recognition if the court rules in favour of Serbia, Serbia should sue the British government.

Wow!! This is a strong one. Since when is Serbia a financial powerhouse? Or did you do a typing error by writing Serbia?
(Joe, 16 March 2010 14:47)
--
Get up to date Joe, Serbia is the powerhouse of the Balkans. That's a well known fact.
==
The visa liberalization between Serbia and schengen was signed after UDI and excluded Kosovo for that reason.
Additionaly, EULEX was allowed in Kosovo after UDI and agreed upon by your gov't.
(MJ, 16 March 2010 14:21)
--
As far as Serbia is concerned, Visa liberalisation includes Kosovo. It's only those ethnic Albanians who live in prison camp "Kosova" and don't want to queue up in Gracanica to get their Serbian passports that are being left out.

As for EULEX, its deployment officaly falls under the UN umbrella by agreement with the Serbian government as status-neutral.

I really am beginning to wonder if words from people like Mr. Wordsworth are producing more harm than good for Kosovo-UNMIK.

One one level, there is near unanimity in not requiring Serbia to recognize Kosovo-UNMIK, which effectively legitimizes dozens of other states' refusal to recognize Kosovo-UNMIK since they base their non-recognition on Serbia's position. This also effectively shuts out Kosovo-UNMIK's chances of ever getting into the EU on its own short of being completely transformed into an EU-governed mandate.

On another level, it shows the increasing frustration the West is having in trying to push through Kosovo-UNMIK's legitimacy as a state. Little more than two years after UDD, the little engine that everyone thought it could is sputtering. Internal divisions of sovereignty are deepening, EULEX is flip-flopping on adminstration, and no one is really going out of their way in forcing Belgrade's hand over relinquishing control over its Serb-dominated municipalities. Kosovo-UNMIK is increasingly looking like a sick pet project.

"Make no mistake about it, EU has plan B and doesn't include Serbia." (James)

-- You're right. They don't have a Plan B, which is the reason why the EU looks so confused because it expected Plan A to go off without a hitch.

"Since when is Serbia a financial powerhouse? Or did you do a typing error by writing Serbia?" (Joe)

-- It's called being strategically in the middle of the Balkans. It includes major conduits of riverways and roadways between Budapest and Thessaloniki. It's called envisioning Belgrade as the future financial capital of Southeastern Europe. No other urban center in the region has the strategic location Belgrade has and the EU has made it clear Serbia, more than any other Balkan country, is the keystone to full Balkan integration.

Let's also remember that over 60% of the world's nations have not recognized Kosovo, Mr. Wordsworth. I find your nation building efforts offensive - old British habits die hard. IMO, divide Kosovo on ethnic lines. Let the Albanians then do whatever they want with their poverty-stricken, crime-infested swamp, and ignore them. Just don't allow the horrible situation they have to spread into Serbia proper. Let Albania take care of their brothren - and let them all sink into their black hole.

"So the EU/US will have to choose sooner or later. Without Serbia the Balkans is crippled."

Even if you assume that the average Serb 'chooses Kosova' over EU (Kosova will not return to Serbia either way) it's over. Make no mistake about it, EU has plan B and doesn't include Serbia. They rather not go that far but everyone else is joining EU, but frozen out of EU Serbia would be crippled, as you're surrounded by EU nations.

You want a solution Mr. Stephen Wordsworth?? Well the only solution is GIVE BACK KOSOVO TO SERBIA.
(PRO-SERBIA, 16 March 2010 13:29)


It cannot happend because the 2 million albanian living in Kosovo dosen't accept that. KPS and KSF would be at the border waiting for you and that would mean bye bye EU for every Balkan state. EU woulden't like that I bet.


And even if you get Kosovo under you control you would't have the power to govern it or keep it under control. Albanians there would fight for hundred of years like we have done for 100 years in the past and Serbia would only get poorer and lose everything.


So the only solution is that Kosovo stayes independent or re-unite with Albania.

"Serbia is not being asked to recognize Kosovo, but Belgrade must establish some model of cooperation with Priština"

Well the model is crystal-clear, as long as Kosovo respects Serbian Law, including the payment of taxes. This is only natural since Serbia is not asked to recognise an "independent" Kosovo.

In the same light, it will be actually very easy for Serbia to answer the questions regarding the size and population of the country. Where's the problem?

The Ambasador may want to follow his own advice when dealing with Argentina and the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands.

-- It's called being strategically in the middle of the Balkans. It includes major conduits of riverways and roadways between Budapest and Thessaloniki. It's called envisioning Belgrade as the future financial capital of Southeastern Europe. No other urban center in the region has the strategic location Belgrade has and the EU has made it clear Serbia, more than any other Balkan country, is the keystone to full Balkan integration.
(Mike, 16 March 2010 16:42)

--Really, you too Mike? I mean go to any Balkan country and they will claim the same. Any and all Balkan countries believe like that. You go to Slovenia and they'll claim they are strategically located between EU and the Balkans. You go to Croatia and they'll claim they are strategically located between EU and the Balkans. You go to Albania and they'll claim they are strategically located between EU and the Balkans. You go to Greece and they'll claim they are strategically located between EU and the Balkans. As a matter of fact some of these countries have a far better position than Serbia to make such claims because apart from roadways and rivers they have seaports and better political standings. That however does not matter. What matters here is that this B$ propaganda about being strategically located is just that, B$ propaganda. No country in the Balkans is strategically located better than the other, especially considering that if we group all southeastern Europe into one geographical bag so to speak, its still a very small area. So you have these talking heads speak about better strategical geographical positions when the position is just so small. We may as well speak about how strategically positioned neighborhoods in Belgrade, Athens, Tirana, Zagreb, Ljubljana are in southeastern Europe. Cut the crap already. B$ like this serves to nothing but a sense of self-aggrandizement. Our region is so small that we are on the same boat when it comes geographical locations. If we were to speak realistically we need to speak in terms of all our region, southeastern Europe geographic location compared to the rest Europe. There are no strategic geographical positions for our separate countries considering their small sizes in comparison to the likes of lets say France or Italy. This strategic position crap is a communist remnant; a communist propaganda stunt to make people feel better. Other crap included the vast richness of our soils in very expensive minerals, the very very rare flora and fauna, the very very nice and clean waterways that could be found nowhere, and of course the so many species of fish that taste so good that could be found nowhere;in fact we have so many good stuff and unique stuff and so much richness the West is jealous of us.

“We want Serbia’s process of European integrations to continue, therefore we need to find a way to overcome these differences which exist among us because we cannot resolve them,” he said."
========================

You should've thought of that before you decided to rob Serbia of part of her territory. It's still not too late. Take back your recognition and we have a working formula.

You want a solution Mr. Stephen Wordsworth?? Well the only solution is GIVE BACK KOSOVO TO SERBIA.
(PRO-SERBIA, 16 March 2010 13:29)

Never ,please don't lie your self.
It is something finished forever.
Cheers !!

"A model of cooperation with Argentina needed" says the ambassador from JohnBoyia. "Britain does not have to recognize Argentina's sovereignty over the Falklands but should cooperate with Argentina on common issues".

Speak for yourself.

Demi wrote:

"And even if you get Kosovo under you control you would't have the power to govern it or keep it under control. Albanians there would fight for hundred of years like we have done for 100 years in the past and Serbia would only get poorer and lose everything."
=====================

Demi, you guys keep saying how you had to secede because Milosevic was trying to exterminate you all. I didn't know he was doing that for a hundred years.

Which is it? Was it Milosevic's fault or you are just blaming it all on him?

Model of cooperation indeed does exists and it is in practice: keeping them dead blocked in their "black hole" and doing it 4ever and ever.
For the last more then half of the century of the rapes, tortures, ethnical cleansing and killings of the Serbs and non-Albanians long sentence is to be paid by that.
(dean SRB, 16 March 2010 12:31)
When I realized the number of Serbians with this attitude was when I was convinced Independence was the only viable option for the citizens of Kosovo!
You can sugar coat it with phrases of "territorial integrity" and "cultural heritage" all you want but the first paragraph is the motivation of most of the posters here.

A good precedent here is that the previous government of Prime Minister Koštunica, when negotiating the Stabilization and Association Agreement (SAA), accepted that this agreement did not apply to Kosovo, which was under management of the UN. (Ambassador)
- That was before the illegal UDI so everything has changed since then. If Tadic doesn't live by his words then he'll get the boot. Serbia will co-operate with UNMIK-Kosovo otherwise it has no reason to talk to an illegal criminal entity. (Zoran)

The visa liberalization between Serbia and schengen was signed after UDI and excluded Kosovo for that reason.
Additionaly, EULEX was allowed in Kosovo after UDI and agreed upon by your gov't.

Zoran,

I get the impression that you have no idea what "financial" mean otherwise you would not mix it up with visa liberalization. Some Western countries or their financial enterprises, who develop finances or financial plans for firms and countries are financial powerhouses. Are there any similar ones in Belgrade, who help the financing of Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Macedonia and Kosova in dollars or euro?

so we all agree then .....lets kick all the westernes out and have round 21 battle 10 of balcanic war and then lets wait 50 years and do it again just for the fun of it
(LOL, 16 March 2010 17:35)

Can we include the Klingons as well?

Anyone speak Klingon? or Illyrian for that matter.

"Other crap included the vast richness of our soils in very expensive minerals, the very very rare flora and fauna, the very very nice and clean waterways that could be found nowhere, and of course the so many species of fish that taste so good that could be found nowhere;in fact we have so many good stuff and unique stuff and so much richness the West is jealous of us."
(johny)

-- Gee, I was just referring to Belgrade's potential future in the EU and its strategic location in the Balkans. I'm certainly no expert on who has the tallest trees, the fattest fish, or the most fertile women, and I reckon my own hypothesis would generate a number of dissenters. I will acquiesce on Slovenia having the tallest mountains and Croatia having the best coastline. But as far as getting into the tired old "my history is cooler, hotter, and more badass than your history", that was certainly not my intention :)

Serbia is not being asked to recognize Kosovo, but "Belgrade must establish some model of cooperation with Priština, the British ambassador says."

???? Serbia MUST not cooperate with separatists. Georgia don't cooperate with Ossetia and Abkhazia, Azerbaijan don't cooperate with Karabakh, Moldova don't cooperate with Transnistria and nobody foce them for any form of cooperation with separatists. No one can force Serbia to cooperation with separatists mr ambassador!!!!

"And even if you get Kosovo under you control you would't have the power to govern it or keep it under control. Albanians there would fight for hundred of years like we have done for 100 years in the past and Serbia would only get poorer and lose everything.


So the only solution is that Kosovo stayes independent or re-unite with Albania.
(Demi, 16 March 2010 16:24) "

Are you speaking also for K-Serbs in the north?

There were some comments earlier about Serbia being "crippled" if they don't join the EU.

People, the EU is hardly salvation from anything.

Sure, EU funds have done good things for my country, Poland's infrastructure. And? Okay, some reforms in administration, procedures and such things. And?

I'm sorry, since Poland has joined the EU, millions of Poles have gone to do informal dirty work in the West, many of them very talented and skilled people, causing a huge brain drain, which coupled with local business going bankrupt or being bought out and downsized by huge internationals that invest in Poland because of EU regulations (thus causing even more unemployment), not only are responsible for putting thousands of people out of work, but also this domination of the markets by the internationals is causing the counry's economy to shrink rather than expand.

Not only that, but people earning in Pounds or Euros then buy out land to build houses on, thus raising prices of property to ridiculous levels, to try and curb amount of buyers. Ten years ago, I was planning to buy some land, build a house and move in with my wife. Today? Rent for a few months is the same thing as buying land and bulding a house was then.

And the prices of everything else! My God! I sometimes wonder how the average Pole is in the state to afford a family, mortgage, car (or two) etc. with prices as they are now!

Worst thing is how the mentality of people has changed. Individualism and materialism is now the thing, stupidity is almost celebrated (kids don't read, they have no passion, no interests, hobbies, nothing) and things such as community, social responsibility, common decency, empathy etc. which existed even under the darkest communism, are gone.

And then so what when (and if) this crisis blows over and Poland's economy improves? Then we will face a flood of immigrants from Turkey, Arab countries, Africa etc. and they will become the majority after 20-30 years, like is projected in Western Europe with current demographics as they stand. So now my taxes will not only go into the pockets of corrupt Eurocrats, but also welfare for immigrants with their 8 family members, none employed, as very often is the case in the West, and then I ask myself, what is so damn great about the EU?

Guys, the EU is the devil, Serbia should stay away at all costs, like Norway and Switzerland have. I have really come to despise this Eurocracy of the years, and more and more Poles are finding that things were much better 15 years ago, not long after Communism fell, when Poland was developing and much greater in every sense than now.

Sorry for the long post.

I mean go to any Balkan country and they will claim the same.
(johny, 16 March 2010 19:04)

any of the people who had to deal with the region will agree. the difference is that with belgrade it is people who are from outside of the region that agree that belgrade is more important than the rest. serbs do tend to exaggerate its importance, but in case of others and their cities/countries they tend to simply invent it.

"Man this is why we are proud to be British,,, Britain Rules u lot.. lol.... @ Serbia? here is your reality.. wake up now..
(Albert Jr m&&&, 16 March 2010 19:21) "

Caught in a time wrap eh? Pax Britannica ended a long, long time ago. Now YOU wake up -- reality stinks right?

so we all agree then .....lets kick all the westernes out and have round 21 battle 10 of balcanic war and then lets wait 50 years and do it again just for the fun of it

"You just overlook the fact that most of the trade of Central Europe flows not direction Thessaloniki but toward Germany and the Western part of the EU (in the case of Hungary 80%)." (Joe)

-- True for the moment because SE remains off the grid. No doubt Budapest would equally gain once the Balkans are integrated as a transit hub East to West, and now North to South. But I'm talking about just the region. I'm certainly not saying Belgrade is going to be a major city for Europe as a whole.

"But the posting I referred to talks about it in the present term...not in the future."

-- Granted I'm not as eager to think of Serbia right now as a "financial powerhouse". It's got potential I'll certainly give it that, but yes, I was certainly referring to a future scenario. Still, even there, I doubt Serbia's potential of being a "financial powerhouse" is going to affect the ordinary people. Most beneficiaries of economic power in the region are usually the old-school fat cats.

"Many other urban centers in the neighborhood like Vienna and Budapest claimed the so-called unique strategic location."

-- Yes also, and I'll say they will continue to be larger than BG's prestige. But I was referring to the former YU region. I'd certainly say Novi Sad could also qualify as being "strategic" too. Particularly in the future transit routes between Budapest and Belgrade, our favorite place Vojvodina will certainly benefit too as its right along the major routes. Probably better than the rest of Serbia.

"Still they never said that if for any reason Serbia would not like to integrate the other Balkan countries would never integrate. It is not like the gates of haven (EU) would never be opened for those countries if Serbia does not appear with them."

-- Probably not, but unlike some here who think Serbia can go it alone like Switzerland or Norway, the peer pressure from the rest of the neighborhood makes it nearly impossible for Serbia to avoid the EU. Let's say they refuse (less than 5% chance they will), what other major urban center will take Belgrade's place in the region? The only one I can think of is Zagreb, which is still very "provincial" in terms of BG.

Again, my argument isn't who's better. It's just that Belgrade is right smack in the middle of SE Europe. Knowing what I know, I can safely bet it's going to be a major center in the region.

There is an experimental attempt to make a udi. It has not fully succeeded - that means that an area that is not big enough to be a self-sustaining country is shrunk further, and sits between potential absorption on each side. Albania1 and Albania2 is not a sensible proposition and is unlikely to sustain in that form.

The unstable edifice is being held up by military and financial support. However, that support costs and does not come with infinite good will. Also, there is always scope for situations to change.

Some Albanian posters have used the threat of violence. I do not recommend that form of rhetoric as that can become a provocation that someone else might decide to take seriously. The last provocation did work in that it bought in NATO - future provocations may not receive such a sympathetic approach.

I think the Free State of Bavaria model is the best fit to resolve the status of Kosovo and Metohia. It would give the Albanian majority in Kosovo and Metohia virtual self rule while respecting Serbia's territorial integrity.

Man this is why we are proud to be British,,, Britain Rules u lot.. lol.... @ Serbia? here is your reality.. wake up now..

"It includes major conduits of riverways and roadways between Budapest and Thessaloniki."
You just overlook the fact that most of the trade of Central Europe flows not direction Thessaloniki but toward Germany and the Western part of the EU (in the case of Hungary 80%).

"It's called envisioning Belgrade as the future financial capital of Southeastern Europe."

But the posting I referred to talks about it in the present term...not in the future.
Everybody can freely describe what will be "in the future". With a lot of imagination everybody can describe thinks "in the future" in rosy terms.

"No other urban center in the region has the strategic location Belgrade has"

Many other urban centers in the neighborhood like Vienna and Budapest claimed the so-called unique strategic location.

"and the EU has made it clear Serbia, more than any other Balkan country, is the keystone to full Balkan integration."
Mike

Still they never said that if for any reason Serbia would not like to integrate the other Balkan countries would never integrate. It is not like the gates of haven (EU) would never be opened for those countries if Serbia does not appear with them.

Kosovo is now independent if Serbia should recognize if will part the EU .
(kosboy, 17 March 2010 02:25)

Stop this nonsense. Kosovo is not "independent" - is EU protectorate on the territory of Republic of Serbia. And Serbia will not recognize this pseudostate - no one in EU want Serbian recognition of separatists. So - mr Thaci politics - failed.

So the only solution is that Kosovo stayes independent or re-unite with Albania.
(Demi, 16 March 2010 16:24)

And then the only solution for Abkahzia is independence too I guess.
As Abkhazians never will accept the return of Georgian troops?

If Kosovo why not Abkhazia?

Curtailing Serbia will ensure the Subservience from the rest of the Balkans.

"I have really come to despise this Eurocracy of the years, and more and more Poles are finding that things were much better 15 years ago, not long after Communism fell, when Poland was developing and much greater in every sense than now".
Peter Sudyka

It was interesting to read your posting. I was stunned by the similarity between Poland and Hungary. From my friends and relatives in Hungary I hear the same comments.

Sorry for the long post.
(Peter Sudyka, 17 March 2010 11:47

Thanks for your honest posting. I agree completely with your sentiments about the EU.

"What have the Romans ever done for us? This is hilarious:

[link]
(KU, 17 March 2010 21:25)"

Well if cash from the EU is the only thing that matters to Albanians, well then I suppose I just wasted time writing all that up.

On the other hand, with Albania as a country looking the way it is (in comparison to other European countries), I am not surprized that any "free lunch" for them is like a blessing from God. I guess others shouldn't try to understand this mentality.

Funny thing is they still believe tht the EU is the only hope for Europe, when it is EU countries falling hardest because of this crisis. I hope the EU disbands in the coming years.

"Peter, Thank you for the honest analysis. I did not know things are going so bad.
Truly sorry.
(Russian, 17 March 2010 18:02)"

And unfortunately I am one of many, many Poles who thinks like this. Popularity of the EU in Poland has surely dropped below the 50% mark among general Poles(compared to what it was ten years ago).

"It was interesting to read your posting. I was stunned by the similarity between Poland and Hungary. From my friends and relatives in Hungary I hear the same comments.
(Joe, 17 March 2010 17:22)"

I believe it is even worse for Hungarians. Poland is still a bit more independent from the EU because of its size and self-sustainance, but Hungary is more integrated and therefore it's probably worse there.

Demi, you guys keep saying how you had to secede because Milosevic was trying to exterminate you all. I didn't know he was doing that for a hundred years.

Which is it? Was it Milosevic's fault or you are just blaming it all on him?
(Peggy, 16 March 2010 23:35)


Albanians has been repressed by Serbia and serbs for more than 100 years in Kosovo. You should read a little about how albanians lived in Kosovo or was treated during the time of Rankovic before WW2. Milosevic did the last repression against the albanians. This despite that there was 2 million albanians in Kosovo who had the status almost as a republic in F.Yugo. Milosevic made it possible for Kosovo to be independent and it is him Serbs should blame for the independence of Kosovo and not the albanians.

Albanians had no choice after 1989-1999 but to declare independence because how should we live with a people who showed no respect for our people and in the end tryed to ethnic clean us from our land?

Frankly, the court’s opinion will not change the fact that 80 percent of EU member states have recognized the independence. This reality will remain,” the British ambassador stated.

Peter, Thank you for the honest analysis. I did not know things are going so bad.
Truly sorry.

Kosovo is now independent if Serbia should recognize if will part the EU .

"Sure, EU funds have done good things for my country, Poland's infrastructure. And? Okay, some reforms in administration, procedures and such things. And?"
(Peter Sudyka, 17 March 2010 11:47)

What have the Romans ever done for us? This is hilarious:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExWfh6sGyso

Peter,

I am not talking about Albania at all. Just talking about your hilarious post..it was really funny, like it came right out of a movie.

With those views about Poland and the Polish people leaving, you might be able to open a branch of the BNP in Poland, if you live in Poland. They too complain a lot about polish people going to the UK. Since you seem to share the same views, you might be their spokesperson in Poland (if you live in Poland of course). You guys could coordinate the work and maybe be able to send all the polish back to Poland. If that does not work try with the Lega Nord from Italy, or with Le Pen in France, or with Haider's party in Austria. You might get a salary from them too. Just giving you some suggestions on how to make some extra money and buy that land you like :). Please, if you feel the need to reply and if you could do me a favor, could you not start speaking about Albania again, as this has nothing to do with Albania :). Cheers..

HU

What do you have against conservative right parties who are concerned about the welfare of their states and the interests thereof at heart? Why is it so bad to not want an immigration flood like the West has been experiencing recently?

Personally, Geert Wilders, Haider's Party, Lega Nord etc. all deserve respect for their current views, because this ultra-liberal, multicultural and ultra-politically correct "utopia" that the EU has created is failing. Demographic broadcasts are just one sign of how wrong the current ideology, the current state of Europe's economies is just another.

Like Feudalism, Fascism and Communism, this Liberalism/Capitalism will fail as well.

BTW I only talk about Albanians because I notice how they are almost frothing at the mouth for Albania and Kosov@ to get into the EU at all costs, when it is really not worth it.

Also, what makes you suggest I don't live in Poland?

I think Serbia is doing right by non-recognition of Kosovo.

Kosovo although independent cannot be for long time, because is ONLy natural to become a province of Albania, because HISTORY, people, language, and culture easily destroys all myths as it poits out to ONE and ONLY conclusion that Kosovo is Albania. Period.

Serbia doesnt need to recognise Kosovo, it only needs to recognize the natural Albania.

in the process of EU accession, it will have to be determined what makes Serbia in a physical sense, including its size and population.

That explains everything, when it comes to Serbia joining EU?

"So the EU/US will have to choose sooner or later. Without Serbia the Balkans is crippled."

Even if you assume that the average Serb 'chooses Kosova' over EU (Kosova will not return to Serbia either way) it's over. Make no mistake about it, EU has plan B and doesn't include Serbia. They rather not go that far but everyone else is joining EU, but frozen out of EU Serbia would be crippled, as you're surrounded by EU nations.

"Without Serbia the Balkans cannot survive financially."
Zoran

Wow!! This is a strong one. Since when is Serbia a financial powerhouse? Or did you do a typing error by writing Serbia?

You want a solution Mr. Stephen Wordsworth?? Well the only solution is GIVE BACK KOSOVO TO SERBIA.
(PRO-SERBIA, 16 March 2010 13:29)

Never ,please don't lie your self.
It is something finished forever.
Cheers !!

"A good precedent here is that the previous government of Prime Minister Koštunica, when negotiating the Stabilization and Association Agreement (SAA), accepted that this agreement did not apply to Kosovo, which was under management of the UN in accordance with Resolution 1244"
--
That was before the illegal UDI so everything has changed since then. The EU/US created the problem and Serbia is not going to compromise its territorial integrity for EU membership. That has been repeated an endless number of times and should be fairly clear. If Tadic doesn't live by his words then he'll get the boot.

Now as you mentioned UNSCR1244, the framework for co-operation is within that scope. Serbia will co-operate with UNMIK-Kosovo otherwise it has no reason to talk to an illegal criminal entity.

So the EU/US will have to choose sooner or later. Without Serbia the Balkans is crippled. With a strengthening East, the more pressure put on Serbia the more we face East. The West doesn't only risk losing Serbia but most of the Balkans over a group of criminals and terrorists. What will it be?

You want a solution Mr. Stephen Wordsworth?? Well the only solution is GIVE BACK KOSOVO TO SERBIA.
(PRO-SERBIA, 16 March 2010 13:29)


It cannot happend because the 2 million albanian living in Kosovo dosen't accept that. KPS and KSF would be at the border waiting for you and that would mean bye bye EU for every Balkan state. EU woulden't like that I bet.


And even if you get Kosovo under you control you would't have the power to govern it or keep it under control. Albanians there would fight for hundred of years like we have done for 100 years in the past and Serbia would only get poorer and lose everything.


So the only solution is that Kosovo stayes independent or re-unite with Albania.

Serbia must proceed on the basis that it will at some stage reacquire rights it was bombed into signing away.

This was never intended to be a conquest - it was a human rights intervention. There is no way that this should have been turned into a group punishment of Serbia.

The UK and the west LIED when they signed for 1244 in that they never intended to maintain the territorial integrity the document reaffirms. That is now the key element of 1244 from the point of view of Serbia and the UK needs to honour it.

Serbia can never have a happy relationship with the west while that LIE retains.

The udi does not have anything to do with 'recognising' countries. This is not a vote. Also, the Albanians in Kosovo have no 'right' for the mono-ethnic state they have long been seeking to create (and do not pretend it is not mono-ethnic).

If the territorial integrity in 1244 is not honoured, 1244 should be declared void and Serbia should seek to introduce autonomy for the province under its own terms.

If the EU associates with this blackmail of Serbia, there will never be stability on the issue.

It would be more honest of the UK to come out and say - 'we conquered your territory and we are giving it away elsewhere' - rather than keep on with this weasel attitude and this weasel speak.

Interesting to hear the british ambassador say that regardless of what the ICJ rules the "reality" is that 80 percent of EU countries have recognized Kosovo. So, to bypass international law you carve out a piece of someone elses territory, pay and force a number of easily duped countries to recognize the move and say "that's it", no more turning back. Mr ambassador and co only use those facts that fit the purpose by saying that a majority of Europe supports an independent Kosovo. Why didn’t he mention that a majority of the world doesn’t? Mr ambassador, no one really want's to play with your Frankenstein creation, especially not Serbia and the Serbian people. You didn’t want to listen to Serbia during final status talks now you are begging us to talk to Pristina. You tell the
albanians to give back what is legaly ours and then we can talk.

A good precedent here is that the previous government of Prime Minister Koštunica, when negotiating the Stabilization and Association Agreement (SAA), accepted that this agreement did not apply to Kosovo, which was under management of the UN. (Ambassador)
- That was before the illegal UDI so everything has changed since then. If Tadic doesn't live by his words then he'll get the boot. Serbia will co-operate with UNMIK-Kosovo otherwise it has no reason to talk to an illegal criminal entity. (Zoran)

The visa liberalization between Serbia and schengen was signed after UDI and excluded Kosovo for that reason.
Additionaly, EULEX was allowed in Kosovo after UDI and agreed upon by your gov't.

Model of cooperation indeed does exists and it is in practice: keeping them dead blocked in their "black hole" and doing it 4ever and ever.
For the last more then half of the century of the rapes, tortures, ethnical cleansing and killings of the Serbs and non-Albanians long sentence is to be paid by that.
(dean SRB, 16 March 2010 12:31)
When I realized the number of Serbians with this attitude was when I was convinced Independence was the only viable option for the citizens of Kosovo!
You can sugar coat it with phrases of "territorial integrity" and "cultural heritage" all you want but the first paragraph is the motivation of most of the posters here.

This means “we are having problems with criminality due to extreme levels of unemployment which is proving too difficult to control and we need Serbia to open its gates and let the Albanians seek employment”.
I prefer to leave it as it stands and let Kosovo wither and die on the proverbial vine. The west created the situation so let them live in the mess.
I’m sure there are Albanians that are right now reading the “tea leaves” and entrails of sheep prognosticating the down fall of Serbia and its chances of seeking eternal bliss in the EU.
Sorry to disappoint, but its business as usual, no changes whatsoever.

Zoran,

I get the impression that you have no idea what "financial" mean otherwise you would not mix it up with visa liberalization. Some Western countries or their financial enterprises, who develop finances or financial plans for firms and countries are financial powerhouses. Are there any similar ones in Belgrade, who help the financing of Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Macedonia and Kosova in dollars or euro?

Man this is why we are proud to be British,,, Britain Rules u lot.. lol.... @ Serbia? here is your reality.. wake up now..

80% of the EU has recognised and this won't change regardless of what the court rules?

I think you'll find Mr Wordsworth that Poland and Czech Rep would renounce recognition straight away if this happened since both countries Presidents support Serbia's territorial integrity.

Also, ironically Blair signed a declaration saying that the UK would accept any ruling of the Court that didn't concern Commonwealth countries. So if the UK doesn't renounce recognition if the court rules in favour of Serbia, Serbia should sue the British government.

so we all agree then .....lets kick all the westernes out and have round 21 battle 10 of balcanic war and then lets wait 50 years and do it again just for the fun of it

so we all agree then .....lets kick all the westernes out and have round 21 battle 10 of balcanic war and then lets wait 50 years and do it again just for the fun of it
(LOL, 16 March 2010 17:35)

Can we include the Klingons as well?

Anyone speak Klingon? or Illyrian for that matter.

You want a solution Mr. Stephen Wordsworth?? Well the only solution is GIVE BACK KOSOVO TO SERBIA.

Demi wrote:

"And even if you get Kosovo under you control you would't have the power to govern it or keep it under control. Albanians there would fight for hundred of years like we have done for 100 years in the past and Serbia would only get poorer and lose everything."
=====================

Demi, you guys keep saying how you had to secede because Milosevic was trying to exterminate you all. I didn't know he was doing that for a hundred years.

Which is it? Was it Milosevic's fault or you are just blaming it all on him?

"Serbia is not being asked to recognize Kosovo, but Belgrade must establish some model of cooperation with Priština"

Well the model is crystal-clear, as long as Kosovo respects Serbian Law, including the payment of taxes. This is only natural since Serbia is not asked to recognise an "independent" Kosovo.

In the same light, it will be actually very easy for Serbia to answer the questions regarding the size and population of the country. Where's the problem?

I really am beginning to wonder if words from people like Mr. Wordsworth are producing more harm than good for Kosovo-UNMIK.

One one level, there is near unanimity in not requiring Serbia to recognize Kosovo-UNMIK, which effectively legitimizes dozens of other states' refusal to recognize Kosovo-UNMIK since they base their non-recognition on Serbia's position. This also effectively shuts out Kosovo-UNMIK's chances of ever getting into the EU on its own short of being completely transformed into an EU-governed mandate.

On another level, it shows the increasing frustration the West is having in trying to push through Kosovo-UNMIK's legitimacy as a state. Little more than two years after UDD, the little engine that everyone thought it could is sputtering. Internal divisions of sovereignty are deepening, EULEX is flip-flopping on adminstration, and no one is really going out of their way in forcing Belgrade's hand over relinquishing control over its Serb-dominated municipalities. Kosovo-UNMIK is increasingly looking like a sick pet project.

"Make no mistake about it, EU has plan B and doesn't include Serbia." (James)

-- You're right. They don't have a Plan B, which is the reason why the EU looks so confused because it expected Plan A to go off without a hitch.

"Since when is Serbia a financial powerhouse? Or did you do a typing error by writing Serbia?" (Joe)

-- It's called being strategically in the middle of the Balkans. It includes major conduits of riverways and roadways between Budapest and Thessaloniki. It's called envisioning Belgrade as the future financial capital of Southeastern Europe. No other urban center in the region has the strategic location Belgrade has and the EU has made it clear Serbia, more than any other Balkan country, is the keystone to full Balkan integration.

Stephen Wordsworth told B92 that Serbia was not requested to recognize Kosovo, but mentioned, as examples of "cooperation between Kosovo and Serbia", which is increasingly being insisted on, two post-war Germanies, as well as the model which has been established by Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland
B92

Divide & rule has always been the cornerstone of British colonial foreign policy.The Indian sub-continent,Mesopotamia,Irelandand Cyprus are few examples.

What the good ambassador insinuates is that Serbia should forget about the impeding court's ruling-he even knows what the ruling will be-and lets be civil with the present status quo.All the above under the EU carrot of Serbia's EU membership.

To support his thoughts he brings as an example the situation in Northen Ireland.What he doesn't say is that Northen Ireland is under british military occupation with more than 20000 troops stationed there,not to mention the special forces and the police.

The EU membership cannot possibly be achieved by surrendering your sovereignty.Serbia must make that crystal clear.

Let's also remember that over 60% of the world's nations have not recognized Kosovo, Mr. Wordsworth. I find your nation building efforts offensive - old British habits die hard. IMO, divide Kosovo on ethnic lines. Let the Albanians then do whatever they want with their poverty-stricken, crime-infested swamp, and ignore them. Just don't allow the horrible situation they have to spread into Serbia proper. Let Albania take care of their brothren - and let them all sink into their black hole.

Even if you assume that the average Serb 'chooses Kosova' over EU (Kosova will not return to Serbia either way) it's over. Make no mistake about it, EU has plan B and doesn't include Serbia. They rather not go that far but everyone else is joining EU, but frozen out of EU Serbia would be crippled, as you're surrounded by EU nations.
(James, 16 March 2010 12:04)
--
James, now that's a funny name for an Albanian. Serbian's aren't interested in "Kosova", we already control about 30%+ of Kosovo and Metohija so it's not lost my friend. Why the effort by Pristina to control the enclaves and the North otherwise? It's all quiet now so that plan has failed right?

The reason the EU will lose the Balkans is simple economics. Without Serbia the Balkans cannot survive financially. The EU can barely keep Greece from collapsing, what chance will it have to add other failed states and entities to the list? It has already tried to kickstart the economies of the Bosnian Federation and "Kosova" by pumping billions into it but guess what happened? They failed while Serbia and Serbian entities continue to prosper. The plan backfired.

Now if the East continues to prosper and its influence extends westwards (as all signs are showing), who wants to join a feast that is over when we can join a feast that is just beginning?

Don't worry though. There are several million Albanians ready for an indefinate visit to western Europe. Give them the chance and they'll be on your doorstep in no time. I'm sure Europeans will extend their friendship and warm welcome to these loyal people.

Cheers!

Wow!! This is a strong one. Since when is Serbia a financial powerhouse? Or did you do a typing error by writing Serbia?
(Joe, 16 March 2010 14:47)
--
Get up to date Joe, Serbia is the powerhouse of the Balkans. That's a well known fact.
==
The visa liberalization between Serbia and schengen was signed after UDI and excluded Kosovo for that reason.
Additionaly, EULEX was allowed in Kosovo after UDI and agreed upon by your gov't.
(MJ, 16 March 2010 14:21)
--
As far as Serbia is concerned, Visa liberalisation includes Kosovo. It's only those ethnic Albanians who live in prison camp "Kosova" and don't want to queue up in Gracanica to get their Serbian passports that are being left out.

As for EULEX, its deployment officaly falls under the UN umbrella by agreement with the Serbian government as status-neutral.

-- It's called being strategically in the middle of the Balkans. It includes major conduits of riverways and roadways between Budapest and Thessaloniki. It's called envisioning Belgrade as the future financial capital of Southeastern Europe. No other urban center in the region has the strategic location Belgrade has and the EU has made it clear Serbia, more than any other Balkan country, is the keystone to full Balkan integration.
(Mike, 16 March 2010 16:42)

--Really, you too Mike? I mean go to any Balkan country and they will claim the same. Any and all Balkan countries believe like that. You go to Slovenia and they'll claim they are strategically located between EU and the Balkans. You go to Croatia and they'll claim they are strategically located between EU and the Balkans. You go to Albania and they'll claim they are strategically located between EU and the Balkans. You go to Greece and they'll claim they are strategically located between EU and the Balkans. As a matter of fact some of these countries have a far better position than Serbia to make such claims because apart from roadways and rivers they have seaports and better political standings. That however does not matter. What matters here is that this B$ propaganda about being strategically located is just that, B$ propaganda. No country in the Balkans is strategically located better than the other, especially considering that if we group all southeastern Europe into one geographical bag so to speak, its still a very small area. So you have these talking heads speak about better strategical geographical positions when the position is just so small. We may as well speak about how strategically positioned neighborhoods in Belgrade, Athens, Tirana, Zagreb, Ljubljana are in southeastern Europe. Cut the crap already. B$ like this serves to nothing but a sense of self-aggrandizement. Our region is so small that we are on the same boat when it comes geographical locations. If we were to speak realistically we need to speak in terms of all our region, southeastern Europe geographic location compared to the rest Europe. There are no strategic geographical positions for our separate countries considering their small sizes in comparison to the likes of lets say France or Italy. This strategic position crap is a communist remnant; a communist propaganda stunt to make people feel better. Other crap included the vast richness of our soils in very expensive minerals, the very very rare flora and fauna, the very very nice and clean waterways that could be found nowhere, and of course the so many species of fish that taste so good that could be found nowhere;in fact we have so many good stuff and unique stuff and so much richness the West is jealous of us.

The Ambasador may want to follow his own advice when dealing with Argentina and the sovereignty of the Falkland Islands.

"They rather not go that far but everyone else is joining EU, but frozen out of EU Serbia would be crippled, as you're surrounded by EU nations.
(James, 16 March 2010 12:04) "

You are dead wrong. Switzerland is thriving even though surrounded by the EU. The crucial thing is for Serbia to get her economy in shape. Once this is achieved, properity will come in time. She doesn't need to succumb to blackmail about giving up Kosovo -- don't forget that the EU is not unanimous about Kosovo's status. I can't imagine Spain and Greek Cyprus, for example, ganging up with the likes of London to do Serbia in over Kosovo as you seemed to think.

In any case your conjecture of Serbia being surrounded by EU ia really farfetched. Do you honestly believe Bosnia (whose constituent peoples can't agree about just everything including the merits of EU membership versus ethnicity issues) and "Kosova" can be ahead of Belgrade in the EU race? "Kosova" can't even enter the UN for goodness sake!

I would think the precedent might eventually come from, surprisingly, Denmark. The Danes currently have sovereignty over Greenland. But only Denmark is in the EU, not Greenland. By the same token, Serbia can be inside the EU and still claim Kosovo even though the latte continues to remain outside both the EU and UN.

Frankly, the court’s opinion will not change the fact that 80 percent of EU member states have recognized the independence. This reality will remain,” the British ambassador stated.

"It includes major conduits of riverways and roadways between Budapest and Thessaloniki."
You just overlook the fact that most of the trade of Central Europe flows not direction Thessaloniki but toward Germany and the Western part of the EU (in the case of Hungary 80%).

"It's called envisioning Belgrade as the future financial capital of Southeastern Europe."

But the posting I referred to talks about it in the present term...not in the future.
Everybody can freely describe what will be "in the future". With a lot of imagination everybody can describe thinks "in the future" in rosy terms.

"No other urban center in the region has the strategic location Belgrade has"

Many other urban centers in the neighborhood like Vienna and Budapest claimed the so-called unique strategic location.

"and the EU has made it clear Serbia, more than any other Balkan country, is the keystone to full Balkan integration."
Mike

Still they never said that if for any reason Serbia would not like to integrate the other Balkan countries would never integrate. It is not like the gates of haven (EU) would never be opened for those countries if Serbia does not appear with them.

Serbia is not being asked to recognize Kosovo, but "Belgrade must establish some model of cooperation with Priština, the British ambassador says."

???? Serbia MUST not cooperate with separatists. Georgia don't cooperate with Ossetia and Abkhazia, Azerbaijan don't cooperate with Karabakh, Moldova don't cooperate with Transnistria and nobody foce them for any form of cooperation with separatists. No one can force Serbia to cooperation with separatists mr ambassador!!!!

Demi, you guys keep saying how you had to secede because Milosevic was trying to exterminate you all. I didn't know he was doing that for a hundred years.

Which is it? Was it Milosevic's fault or you are just blaming it all on him?
(Peggy, 16 March 2010 23:35)


Albanians has been repressed by Serbia and serbs for more than 100 years in Kosovo. You should read a little about how albanians lived in Kosovo or was treated during the time of Rankovic before WW2. Milosevic did the last repression against the albanians. This despite that there was 2 million albanians in Kosovo who had the status almost as a republic in F.Yugo. Milosevic made it possible for Kosovo to be independent and it is him Serbs should blame for the independence of Kosovo and not the albanians.

Albanians had no choice after 1989-1999 but to declare independence because how should we live with a people who showed no respect for our people and in the end tryed to ethnic clean us from our land?

"A model of cooperation with Argentina needed" says the ambassador from JohnBoyia. "Britain does not have to recognize Argentina's sovereignty over the Falklands but should cooperate with Argentina on common issues".

Speak for yourself.

“We want Serbia’s process of European integrations to continue, therefore we need to find a way to overcome these differences which exist among us because we cannot resolve them,” he said."
========================

You should've thought of that before you decided to rob Serbia of part of her territory. It's still not too late. Take back your recognition and we have a working formula.

"Other crap included the vast richness of our soils in very expensive minerals, the very very rare flora and fauna, the very very nice and clean waterways that could be found nowhere, and of course the so many species of fish that taste so good that could be found nowhere;in fact we have so many good stuff and unique stuff and so much richness the West is jealous of us."
(johny)

-- Gee, I was just referring to Belgrade's potential future in the EU and its strategic location in the Balkans. I'm certainly no expert on who has the tallest trees, the fattest fish, or the most fertile women, and I reckon my own hypothesis would generate a number of dissenters. I will acquiesce on Slovenia having the tallest mountains and Croatia having the best coastline. But as far as getting into the tired old "my history is cooler, hotter, and more badass than your history", that was certainly not my intention :)

Kosovo is now independent if Serbia should recognize if will part the EU .

I mean go to any Balkan country and they will claim the same.
(johny, 16 March 2010 19:04)

any of the people who had to deal with the region will agree. the difference is that with belgrade it is people who are from outside of the region that agree that belgrade is more important than the rest. serbs do tend to exaggerate its importance, but in case of others and their cities/countries they tend to simply invent it.

So the only solution is that Kosovo stayes independent or re-unite with Albania.
(Demi, 16 March 2010 16:24)

And then the only solution for Abkahzia is independence too I guess.
As Abkhazians never will accept the return of Georgian troops?

If Kosovo why not Abkhazia?

"Man this is why we are proud to be British,,, Britain Rules u lot.. lol.... @ Serbia? here is your reality.. wake up now..
(Albert Jr m&&&, 16 March 2010 19:21) "

Caught in a time wrap eh? Pax Britannica ended a long, long time ago. Now YOU wake up -- reality stinks right?

"And even if you get Kosovo under you control you would't have the power to govern it or keep it under control. Albanians there would fight for hundred of years like we have done for 100 years in the past and Serbia would only get poorer and lose everything.


So the only solution is that Kosovo stayes independent or re-unite with Albania.
(Demi, 16 March 2010 16:24) "

Are you speaking also for K-Serbs in the north?

I think the Free State of Bavaria model is the best fit to resolve the status of Kosovo and Metohia. It would give the Albanian majority in Kosovo and Metohia virtual self rule while respecting Serbia's territorial integrity.

Kosovo is now independent if Serbia should recognize if will part the EU .
(kosboy, 17 March 2010 02:25)

Stop this nonsense. Kosovo is not "independent" - is EU protectorate on the territory of Republic of Serbia. And Serbia will not recognize this pseudostate - no one in EU want Serbian recognition of separatists. So - mr Thaci politics - failed.

Sorry for the long post.
(Peter Sudyka, 17 March 2010 11:47

Thanks for your honest posting. I agree completely with your sentiments about the EU.

There is an experimental attempt to make a udi. It has not fully succeeded - that means that an area that is not big enough to be a self-sustaining country is shrunk further, and sits between potential absorption on each side. Albania1 and Albania2 is not a sensible proposition and is unlikely to sustain in that form.

The unstable edifice is being held up by military and financial support. However, that support costs and does not come with infinite good will. Also, there is always scope for situations to change.

Some Albanian posters have used the threat of violence. I do not recommend that form of rhetoric as that can become a provocation that someone else might decide to take seriously. The last provocation did work in that it bought in NATO - future provocations may not receive such a sympathetic approach.

"You just overlook the fact that most of the trade of Central Europe flows not direction Thessaloniki but toward Germany and the Western part of the EU (in the case of Hungary 80%)." (Joe)

-- True for the moment because SE remains off the grid. No doubt Budapest would equally gain once the Balkans are integrated as a transit hub East to West, and now North to South. But I'm talking about just the region. I'm certainly not saying Belgrade is going to be a major city for Europe as a whole.

"But the posting I referred to talks about it in the present term...not in the future."

-- Granted I'm not as eager to think of Serbia right now as a "financial powerhouse". It's got potential I'll certainly give it that, but yes, I was certainly referring to a future scenario. Still, even there, I doubt Serbia's potential of being a "financial powerhouse" is going to affect the ordinary people. Most beneficiaries of economic power in the region are usually the old-school fat cats.

"Many other urban centers in the neighborhood like Vienna and Budapest claimed the so-called unique strategic location."

-- Yes also, and I'll say they will continue to be larger than BG's prestige. But I was referring to the former YU region. I'd certainly say Novi Sad could also qualify as being "strategic" too. Particularly in the future transit routes between Budapest and Belgrade, our favorite place Vojvodina will certainly benefit too as its right along the major routes. Probably better than the rest of Serbia.

"Still they never said that if for any reason Serbia would not like to integrate the other Balkan countries would never integrate. It is not like the gates of haven (EU) would never be opened for those countries if Serbia does not appear with them."

-- Probably not, but unlike some here who think Serbia can go it alone like Switzerland or Norway, the peer pressure from the rest of the neighborhood makes it nearly impossible for Serbia to avoid the EU. Let's say they refuse (less than 5% chance they will), what other major urban center will take Belgrade's place in the region? The only one I can think of is Zagreb, which is still very "provincial" in terms of BG.

Again, my argument isn't who's better. It's just that Belgrade is right smack in the middle of SE Europe. Knowing what I know, I can safely bet it's going to be a major center in the region.

Curtailing Serbia will ensure the Subservience from the rest of the Balkans.

There were some comments earlier about Serbia being "crippled" if they don't join the EU.

People, the EU is hardly salvation from anything.

Sure, EU funds have done good things for my country, Poland's infrastructure. And? Okay, some reforms in administration, procedures and such things. And?

I'm sorry, since Poland has joined the EU, millions of Poles have gone to do informal dirty work in the West, many of them very talented and skilled people, causing a huge brain drain, which coupled with local business going bankrupt or being bought out and downsized by huge internationals that invest in Poland because of EU regulations (thus causing even more unemployment), not only are responsible for putting thousands of people out of work, but also this domination of the markets by the internationals is causing the counry's economy to shrink rather than expand.

Not only that, but people earning in Pounds or Euros then buy out land to build houses on, thus raising prices of property to ridiculous levels, to try and curb amount of buyers. Ten years ago, I was planning to buy some land, build a house and move in with my wife. Today? Rent for a few months is the same thing as buying land and bulding a house was then.

And the prices of everything else! My God! I sometimes wonder how the average Pole is in the state to afford a family, mortgage, car (or two) etc. with prices as they are now!

Worst thing is how the mentality of people has changed. Individualism and materialism is now the thing, stupidity is almost celebrated (kids don't read, they have no passion, no interests, hobbies, nothing) and things such as community, social responsibility, common decency, empathy etc. which existed even under the darkest communism, are gone.

And then so what when (and if) this crisis blows over and Poland's economy improves? Then we will face a flood of immigrants from Turkey, Arab countries, Africa etc. and they will become the majority after 20-30 years, like is projected in Western Europe with current demographics as they stand. So now my taxes will not only go into the pockets of corrupt Eurocrats, but also welfare for immigrants with their 8 family members, none employed, as very often is the case in the West, and then I ask myself, what is so damn great about the EU?

Guys, the EU is the devil, Serbia should stay away at all costs, like Norway and Switzerland have. I have really come to despise this Eurocracy of the years, and more and more Poles are finding that things were much better 15 years ago, not long after Communism fell, when Poland was developing and much greater in every sense than now.

Sorry for the long post.

"I have really come to despise this Eurocracy of the years, and more and more Poles are finding that things were much better 15 years ago, not long after Communism fell, when Poland was developing and much greater in every sense than now".
Peter Sudyka

It was interesting to read your posting. I was stunned by the similarity between Poland and Hungary. From my friends and relatives in Hungary I hear the same comments.

Peter, Thank you for the honest analysis. I did not know things are going so bad.
Truly sorry.

"Sure, EU funds have done good things for my country, Poland's infrastructure. And? Okay, some reforms in administration, procedures and such things. And?"
(Peter Sudyka, 17 March 2010 11:47)

What have the Romans ever done for us? This is hilarious:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExWfh6sGyso

"What have the Romans ever done for us? This is hilarious:

[link]
(KU, 17 March 2010 21:25)"

Well if cash from the EU is the only thing that matters to Albanians, well then I suppose I just wasted time writing all that up.

On the other hand, with Albania as a country looking the way it is (in comparison to other European countries), I am not surprized that any "free lunch" for them is like a blessing from God. I guess others shouldn't try to understand this mentality.

Funny thing is they still believe tht the EU is the only hope for Europe, when it is EU countries falling hardest because of this crisis. I hope the EU disbands in the coming years.

"Peter, Thank you for the honest analysis. I did not know things are going so bad.
Truly sorry.
(Russian, 17 March 2010 18:02)"

And unfortunately I am one of many, many Poles who thinks like this. Popularity of the EU in Poland has surely dropped below the 50% mark among general Poles(compared to what it was ten years ago).

"It was interesting to read your posting. I was stunned by the similarity between Poland and Hungary. From my friends and relatives in Hungary I hear the same comments.
(Joe, 17 March 2010 17:22)"

I believe it is even worse for Hungarians. Poland is still a bit more independent from the EU because of its size and self-sustainance, but Hungary is more integrated and therefore it's probably worse there.

Peter,

I am not talking about Albania at all. Just talking about your hilarious post..it was really funny, like it came right out of a movie.

With those views about Poland and the Polish people leaving, you might be able to open a branch of the BNP in Poland, if you live in Poland. They too complain a lot about polish people going to the UK. Since you seem to share the same views, you might be their spokesperson in Poland (if you live in Poland of course). You guys could coordinate the work and maybe be able to send all the polish back to Poland. If that does not work try with the Lega Nord from Italy, or with Le Pen in France, or with Haider's party in Austria. You might get a salary from them too. Just giving you some suggestions on how to make some extra money and buy that land you like :). Please, if you feel the need to reply and if you could do me a favor, could you not start speaking about Albania again, as this has nothing to do with Albania :). Cheers..

HU

What do you have against conservative right parties who are concerned about the welfare of their states and the interests thereof at heart? Why is it so bad to not want an immigration flood like the West has been experiencing recently?

Personally, Geert Wilders, Haider's Party, Lega Nord etc. all deserve respect for their current views, because this ultra-liberal, multicultural and ultra-politically correct "utopia" that the EU has created is failing. Demographic broadcasts are just one sign of how wrong the current ideology, the current state of Europe's economies is just another.

Like Feudalism, Fascism and Communism, this Liberalism/Capitalism will fail as well.

BTW I only talk about Albanians because I notice how they are almost frothing at the mouth for Albania and Kosov@ to get into the EU at all costs, when it is really not worth it.

Also, what makes you suggest I don't live in Poland?