"Pro-Ustasha Orthodox Church" in works in Croatia

Serb and Orthodox need not be a synonym. If there are people who want this church to be formed, and if it is recognized by the proper authorities, well that is called democracy.

I don't see anything nothing wrong with anyone forming their own religious community if they want to. Neither do I see any evidence offered to substantiate the claim that these people are somehow "pro-Ustasha." Bad reporting.

Lenard,

You quote the Bible so well, too bad your fellow compadres never followed it verbatim in WW2 and hence after.

Something new from "friendly" Croatia? Don't think so.

So another "pirate church" on Balkans?
Chances that they will be recognized like autocefal church by Constantinople Patriarch are equal to certain zero.
Business as usual in Croatia.

Amen.

Marcus, did you not read the article or do you just think you can trample on anything that is Serbian. How about we call all of the churches in Kosovo Albanian Orthodox?

Seems to me you do not understand the struggles for the Serbian people in Croatia.

The truth is this church will never existed and never will have any worshippers. The only way they will is if Catholic Croatians convert to Orthodoxy.

I guess we can thank Montenegro for this article.

When the Croats create a "Croatian Catholic Church" independent of the Roman one - we will then believe this to be a genuine "religious" move.
Until then, we are right to assume this is just another fascist manipulation.
When will these people stop??

This is all rather misleading. Orthodox ethnic Croats have existed in Croatia since the Great Schism. Though the great majority of Croatian people eventually turned to the Latin Church, a small minority still practiced the ways of the Greek Church. In the last couple of centuries however, the term Orthodox in the Western Balkans became synonymous with being Serb. This was obviously not the case as there were Macedonians, Montenegrins and Croats who were of the Orthodox faith too. The Orthodox Minorities in Croatia included: descendants of original inhabitants of Pannonia or Dalmatia, the first Croatian settlers, descendants of Croatian Catholics who willingly or forcibly were converted to Orthodoxy, descendants of Orthodox Vlahs (introduced by Ottomans into Croatia), descendants of Orthodox Straddiotti (merchants originating from Turkish occupied Greece under Venetian era), other descendants of, Czech, Greek, Russian, Romanian, Macedonian, Ukrainian or other Eastern European immigrants; and amongst this latter group Serbs are only one ethnic group who came. Yes there may have been another on set up by the NDH but to say that all subsequent ones are "pro-Ustasha" is frankly absurd and is a scare tactic. It's a scare tactic because the Serb Orthodox Church knows that the Croatian President can not stop anyone from practicing religious freedom and they are afraid of a rival Church in Croatia.

Croatian orthodox church would not be a problem in some normal state but in Croatia. So called CoC is based on negation of Serbs and wants to divide up the rest of the Serbs in Croatia for better control over them. Foreigners are not obviously well informed about this situation and they are not well informed what Serbs suffered in puppet creation, independent state of Croatia and what means for them foundation of this nazi organization, so called croatian orthodox church. There is no way that Croats will become Orthodox. This so called church is formed to erase any existence of Serbs in Croatia forcing them to claim they are actually Croats of orthodox religion but not Serbs. That's state policy of republic of Croatia and is not changed a bit. And that country applied for membership to EU. Sad!

There should be nothing wrong with a Croat wishing to practice the Orthodox Christian faith.

I can see Serbs having a problem with this, as all Orthodox Christians in Croatia have automatically become synonymous with Serbs, when in fact, they could very well be ethnically Croatian or simply have one ethnic Serb in their family tree where the religion was passed down. By creating Orthodox Croats, many of those half Serbs or less will identify themselves with this (which is actually a more accurate label).

Labelling this Orthodox faith as neo-Nazi simply because a puppet version of it existed during WW2 times is nonsense.

Since when does Serbia hold exclusive rights to the Orthodox religion over the south slav peoples???

They did this same thing with the Montenrgrins and Macedonians. I think even to this very day the Serbs refuse to recognise these 2 orthodox churches.

If people wish to reinstate the Croatian Orthodox Church then its their own free will to do so and no-one should stop them afterall Europe that last time I check was a democratic place.

BTW, the Croatian Orthodox Church existed in Austro-Hungarian times so its existance preceeds 1941. When Yugoslavia was created after WW1 all Orthodox Croats were forced to declare themselves as Serbs as was done to Macedonians and Montenegrins.

Serbs should get over it because to me it seems they are only frightened even more of losing their grip in the region .....

Another pathetic attempt to still cry wolf about Ustashas in 2010 over an insignificant church of about 400 members (please !). So much about " the struggles for the Serbian people in Croatia"...Business as usual in Serbia.

(SinCity, 16 March 2010 02:07)

Sorry to disappoint you but your Vatican will put a stop to that very soon. You see they don’t want to see the Serbian Catholic Church, Russian Catholic Church, Ukrainian Catholic Church established and all not in “union with the Pope.
If you need a furtehr explanation go and ask the Papal nuncio to Croatia.

I personally don't see how this Croatian Orthodox Church can be linked to the Pavelic one, though isn't it supposed to have something like 2000 people to be officially recnognized?

I beleive if they want their own Orthodox Church, they have eery right to do so, like the Polish Orthodox Church even though my country is almost totally Catholic in terms of faith. I believe Finland has one too, even though they are mostly Protestant in faith.

Whats the problem if some want to form a Croatian Orthodox church. Same goes if some want to form a Serbian Roman Catholic Church. Also Muslim or Jewish Serbian ,Croatian etc. What are they afraid of losing power and money of their unwieldy monolithic structure that it mite crack and collapse. Sure throw some smelly red herring in the Ustasha and maybe some Četniks to make it sound better of their opposition. Personally I do not subscribe to Catholicism or Orthodoxy like Gods word say about them Mat 23:15 "Woe to you teachers hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. Mat7:13"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide [is] the gate and broad [is] the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Mat 7:14 Because narrow [is] the gate and difficult [is] the way which leads to life, and there are [few] who find it. Who can support so called "Christian religons" and their clergys that bless murders and their guns. To go out murder their neighbours in the name of their religion and of its nationalism. Rom 13:9 For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not bear false witness," "You shall not covet," and if [there is] any other commandment, are [all] summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbour as yourself." Luk 6:35 But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the un-thankful and evil. Read Gods word the bible for your self it will be a eye opener. Not to be taught by the overwhelming blind clergy of mans religious traditions they will make you fall in the pit of hell by following them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84_LdFAA3c0&feature=related

The Montenegrin Orthodox Church has more legitimacy than this thing.

One question - please help me out.

Šubić-Zrinski family was Croatian, but some of them were Pravoslav and these were descendants of Stephan Uroš but the first Serbian kings were Catholic. Correct? (Do NOT look at the Wiki this is not there!)

Just visit Krka monastery (we wanted to do this weekend but the snow and flu kept us home).

I have a strange feeling, that question wasn't central till "Nation-States" begun to appear, before it was largely the allegiance to certain rulers what decided and the villagers could become one or the other almost overnight - depending what their lord did.

Is it correct, too?

The Serb National Council in Croatia has also stood up against the formation of such a church.

“It is clear that is not about religion, or believers, or Christianity, they celebrate, they are in fact inviting evil and hate,” Council Deputy President Saša Milošević said. O my what shall we do. Did they also crucifie Jesus? It was done by the religious leaders who were supposed to represent him on earth and wait for his coming with anticipation. But when he came told religious leaders the truth about them all hell broke out. Jesus Said to them what they are brood of vipers and white washed tomb stones with dead men bones and you are trying to kill me. That did it for them who did Jesus think he was God. Maybe if he said nice things about them and acknowledge them as in charge with first class tickets issued by them for a good price to heaven. But no they plotted to kill him and all the believers who believed on Jesus.“They can also pressure our believers. They claim that Serb churches can exist here. It is a question of ownership, we have our papers, of course, those are our churches and monasteries, but for those kinds of people, sometimes that is not enough,” he added. Wow the age old struggle continues. 2Cr 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 2Cr 11:14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 2Cr 11:15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

SinCity said:

"Since when does Serbia hold exclusive rights to the Orthodox religion over the south slav peoples???

They did this same thing with the Montenrgrins and Macedonians. I think even to this very day the Serbs refuse to recognise these 2 orthodox churches."
===================

Got news for you pal. Nobody is recognizing these churches. Russian, Greek, Coptic, heck not even the Pope is recognizing these churches so what do you want from Serbia.

Go and write your letter of protest to the Pope. He might be merciful and recognize them just like he did with the Ukranian church.

Why do you expect Serbia to recognize something no other Orthodox church or any other church in the world will?

Whats the problem if some want to form a Croatian Orthodox church. Same goes if some want to form a Serbian Roman Catholic Church. Also Muslim or Jewish Serbian ,Croatian etc. What are they afraid of losing power and money of their unwieldy monolithic structure that it mite crack and collapse. Sure throw some smelly red herring in the Ustasha and maybe some Četniks to make it sound better of their opposition. Personally I do not subscribe to Catholicism or Orthodoxy like Gods word say about them Mat 23:15 "Woe to you teachers hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. Mat7:13"Enter by the narrow gate; for wide [is] the gate and broad [is] the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Mat 7:14 Because narrow [is] the gate and difficult [is] the way which leads to life, and there are [few] who find it. Who can support so called "Christian religons" and their clergys that bless murders and their guns. To go out murder their neighbours in the name of their religion and of its nationalism. Rom 13:9 For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not bear false witness," "You shall not covet," and if [there is] any other commandment, are [all] summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbour as yourself." Luk 6:35 But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the un-thankful and evil. Read Gods word the bible for your self it will be a eye opener. Not to be taught by the overwhelming blind clergy of mans religious traditions they will make you fall in the pit of hell by following them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84_LdFAA3c0&feature=related

Serb and Orthodox need not be a synonym. If there are people who want this church to be formed, and if it is recognized by the proper authorities, well that is called democracy.

I don't see anything nothing wrong with anyone forming their own religious community if they want to. Neither do I see any evidence offered to substantiate the claim that these people are somehow "pro-Ustasha." Bad reporting.

There should be nothing wrong with a Croat wishing to practice the Orthodox Christian faith.

I can see Serbs having a problem with this, as all Orthodox Christians in Croatia have automatically become synonymous with Serbs, when in fact, they could very well be ethnically Croatian or simply have one ethnic Serb in their family tree where the religion was passed down. By creating Orthodox Croats, many of those half Serbs or less will identify themselves with this (which is actually a more accurate label).

Labelling this Orthodox faith as neo-Nazi simply because a puppet version of it existed during WW2 times is nonsense.

Another pathetic attempt to still cry wolf about Ustashas in 2010 over an insignificant church of about 400 members (please !). So much about " the struggles for the Serbian people in Croatia"...Business as usual in Serbia.

This is all rather misleading. Orthodox ethnic Croats have existed in Croatia since the Great Schism. Though the great majority of Croatian people eventually turned to the Latin Church, a small minority still practiced the ways of the Greek Church. In the last couple of centuries however, the term Orthodox in the Western Balkans became synonymous with being Serb. This was obviously not the case as there were Macedonians, Montenegrins and Croats who were of the Orthodox faith too. The Orthodox Minorities in Croatia included: descendants of original inhabitants of Pannonia or Dalmatia, the first Croatian settlers, descendants of Croatian Catholics who willingly or forcibly were converted to Orthodoxy, descendants of Orthodox Vlahs (introduced by Ottomans into Croatia), descendants of Orthodox Straddiotti (merchants originating from Turkish occupied Greece under Venetian era), other descendants of, Czech, Greek, Russian, Romanian, Macedonian, Ukrainian or other Eastern European immigrants; and amongst this latter group Serbs are only one ethnic group who came. Yes there may have been another on set up by the NDH but to say that all subsequent ones are "pro-Ustasha" is frankly absurd and is a scare tactic. It's a scare tactic because the Serb Orthodox Church knows that the Croatian President can not stop anyone from practicing religious freedom and they are afraid of a rival Church in Croatia.

When the Croats create a "Croatian Catholic Church" independent of the Roman one - we will then believe this to be a genuine "religious" move.
Until then, we are right to assume this is just another fascist manipulation.
When will these people stop??

Since when does Serbia hold exclusive rights to the Orthodox religion over the south slav peoples???

They did this same thing with the Montenrgrins and Macedonians. I think even to this very day the Serbs refuse to recognise these 2 orthodox churches.

If people wish to reinstate the Croatian Orthodox Church then its their own free will to do so and no-one should stop them afterall Europe that last time I check was a democratic place.

BTW, the Croatian Orthodox Church existed in Austro-Hungarian times so its existance preceeds 1941. When Yugoslavia was created after WW1 all Orthodox Croats were forced to declare themselves as Serbs as was done to Macedonians and Montenegrins.

Serbs should get over it because to me it seems they are only frightened even more of losing their grip in the region .....

Something new from "friendly" Croatia? Don't think so.

So another "pirate church" on Balkans?
Chances that they will be recognized like autocefal church by Constantinople Patriarch are equal to certain zero.
Business as usual in Croatia.

Amen.

The Serb National Council in Croatia has also stood up against the formation of such a church.

“It is clear that is not about religion, or believers, or Christianity, they celebrate, they are in fact inviting evil and hate,” Council Deputy President Saša Milošević said. O my what shall we do. Did they also crucifie Jesus? It was done by the religious leaders who were supposed to represent him on earth and wait for his coming with anticipation. But when he came told religious leaders the truth about them all hell broke out. Jesus Said to them what they are brood of vipers and white washed tomb stones with dead men bones and you are trying to kill me. That did it for them who did Jesus think he was God. Maybe if he said nice things about them and acknowledge them as in charge with first class tickets issued by them for a good price to heaven. But no they plotted to kill him and all the believers who believed on Jesus.“They can also pressure our believers. They claim that Serb churches can exist here. It is a question of ownership, we have our papers, of course, those are our churches and monasteries, but for those kinds of people, sometimes that is not enough,” he added. Wow the age old struggle continues. 2Cr 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 2Cr 11:14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 2Cr 11:15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

Croatian orthodox church would not be a problem in some normal state but in Croatia. So called CoC is based on negation of Serbs and wants to divide up the rest of the Serbs in Croatia for better control over them. Foreigners are not obviously well informed about this situation and they are not well informed what Serbs suffered in puppet creation, independent state of Croatia and what means for them foundation of this nazi organization, so called croatian orthodox church. There is no way that Croats will become Orthodox. This so called church is formed to erase any existence of Serbs in Croatia forcing them to claim they are actually Croats of orthodox religion but not Serbs. That's state policy of republic of Croatia and is not changed a bit. And that country applied for membership to EU. Sad!

Marcus, did you not read the article or do you just think you can trample on anything that is Serbian. How about we call all of the churches in Kosovo Albanian Orthodox?

Seems to me you do not understand the struggles for the Serbian people in Croatia.

The truth is this church will never existed and never will have any worshippers. The only way they will is if Catholic Croatians convert to Orthodoxy.

I guess we can thank Montenegro for this article.

The Montenegrin Orthodox Church has more legitimacy than this thing.

(SinCity, 16 March 2010 02:07)

Sorry to disappoint you but your Vatican will put a stop to that very soon. You see they don’t want to see the Serbian Catholic Church, Russian Catholic Church, Ukrainian Catholic Church established and all not in “union with the Pope.
If you need a furtehr explanation go and ask the Papal nuncio to Croatia.

I personally don't see how this Croatian Orthodox Church can be linked to the Pavelic one, though isn't it supposed to have something like 2000 people to be officially recnognized?

I beleive if they want their own Orthodox Church, they have eery right to do so, like the Polish Orthodox Church even though my country is almost totally Catholic in terms of faith. I believe Finland has one too, even though they are mostly Protestant in faith.

Lenard,

You quote the Bible so well, too bad your fellow compadres never followed it verbatim in WW2 and hence after.

One question - please help me out.

Šubić-Zrinski family was Croatian, but some of them were Pravoslav and these were descendants of Stephan Uroš but the first Serbian kings were Catholic. Correct? (Do NOT look at the Wiki this is not there!)

Just visit Krka monastery (we wanted to do this weekend but the snow and flu kept us home).

I have a strange feeling, that question wasn't central till "Nation-States" begun to appear, before it was largely the allegiance to certain rulers what decided and the villagers could become one or the other almost overnight - depending what their lord did.

Is it correct, too?

SinCity said:

"Since when does Serbia hold exclusive rights to the Orthodox religion over the south slav peoples???

They did this same thing with the Montenrgrins and Macedonians. I think even to this very day the Serbs refuse to recognise these 2 orthodox churches."
===================

Got news for you pal. Nobody is recognizing these churches. Russian, Greek, Coptic, heck not even the Pope is recognizing these churches so what do you want from Serbia.

Go and write your letter of protest to the Pope. He might be merciful and recognize them just like he did with the Ukranian church.

Why do you expect Serbia to recognize something no other Orthodox church or any other church in the world will?